If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(News.com.au)   Ownership of the Arctic Circle sets off a new cold war   (news.com.au) divider line 64
    More: Followup, Arctic Circle, North Pole, New Democratic Party, Canada Post, countries by natural gas proven reserves, shipping route, President Vladimir Putin, antiaircraft guns  
•       •       •

2324 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Dec 2013 at 11:10 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



64 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-12-25 08:51:01 AM
See what you started, Canada?
 
2013-12-25 10:16:51 AM
Liberals do not think that the North Pole or Santa Claus are in Canada.

Damn those Liberals! Their war on Christmas has gone too far.
 
2013-12-25 10:35:51 AM
Ice Station Zebra 2: Electric Boogaloo?
 
2013-12-25 11:06:14 AM
You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.
 
2013-12-25 11:10:25 AM

unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.


They wont, they want it too.
 
2013-12-25 11:20:53 AM

sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.


Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.
 
2013-12-25 11:23:13 AM
Dammit, he wears red and white, drinks milk, he hands out gifts to everyone (so has no enemies) is super polite (answers every letter he gets), and he drives the ULTIMATE all-terrain vehicle (which runs on renewable hay, too).

What else does the man have to do to prove to y'all that he's Canadian??
 
2013-12-25 11:23:16 AM

Lionel Mandrake: See what you started, Canada?


Us? Were you guys all asleep when Putin reared his head and started claiming Arctic territory back in 2007?
 
2013-12-25 11:30:28 AM
Well it's not like Canada would set up toll booths or anything, the water would still be pretty well open, the primary point is the exclusive potential exploitation of  resources.   The claim is based on the land form, and I've not seen the data so I don't know...  but the one map I saw where the US had drawn a line off the Alaska / Yukon border that instead of going straight out was off to the Canadian side of straight out about 45 degrees, THAT was ludicrous.
 
2013-12-25 11:33:37 AM
I don't think Canada has read the fine print. Ownership of the North Pole involves paying yearly tribute to all good little boys and girls.
 
2013-12-25 11:36:47 AM
Bring it on.  We have our crack First Nations tripwire force ready, complete with WW2 Lee-Enfield rifles waiting.

www.nnsl.com
 
2013-12-25 11:37:41 AM

Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.


Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territorial_waters_-_United_States .s vg

If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander
 
2013-12-25 11:43:50 AM
Just slice it like pie.
Who wants whipped cream?
 
2013-12-25 11:47:00 AM

Cyber_Junk: Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.

Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territorial_waters_-_United_States .s vg

If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander



There's also icebreaking -- who besides Canada is positioned to keep the shipping lanes open if/when shippers insist on shipping through there at the bleeding edges of the season? Or rescues when things sink?
 
2013-12-25 11:50:52 AM

Cyber_Junk: Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?


Don't you mean the 'Ronald Reagan Exclusive Economic Zone'?
 
2013-12-25 11:52:15 AM

phaseolus: Cyber_Junk: Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.

Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territorial_waters_-_United_States .s vg

If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander


This is the international standard that Canada & Russia have the right to apply:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_ t he_Sea#Signature_and_ratification

Now, the U.S. doesn't recognize it as they have not signed it.  Losing out on those sweet, sweet resources in the now melting Arctic Circle because of lack of land up there.   etc etc
 
2013-12-25 11:52:23 AM

bill4935: Dammit, he wears red and white, drinks milk, he hands out gifts to everyone (so has no enemies) is super polite (answers every letter he gets), and he drives the ULTIMATE all-terrain vehicle (which runs on renewable hay, too).

What else does the man have to do to prove to y'all that he's Canadian??


Let's think about this for a second. Are you trying to say that Canada has been invading nations, not just nations but the private sanctity of the homes in those nations, for centuries and trying to spread socialism through gift redistribution? That sounds more like a commie to me... A RED commie at that (I mean look at the suit).
 
2013-12-25 11:54:40 AM

TheDarkSaintOfGin: phaseolus: Cyber_Junk: Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.

Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territorial_waters_-_United_States .s vg

If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander

This is the international standard that Canada & Russia have the right to apply:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_ t he_Sea#Signature_and_ratification

Now, the U.S. doesn't recognize it as they have not signed it.  Losing out on those sweet, sweet resources in the now melting Arctic Circle because of lack of land up there.   etc etc



This shouldn't surprise anyone.  The last thing the US wants to do is to agree to a fair system when an unfair one suits them better.
 
2013-12-25 11:57:58 AM

vernonFL: Liberals do not think that the North Pole or Santa Claus are in Canada.

Damn those Liberals! Their war on Christmas has gone too far.


I was hoping there would be a quote from the Bloc on their opinion.  It would have been gold, Jerry! Gold!
 
2013-12-25 12:01:54 PM

NeoCortex42: Cyber_Junk: Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

Don't you mean the 'Ronald Reagan Exclusive Economic Zone'?


Most nations with ocean borders have EEZ's. Those waters however are not "Territorial" and anyone can pass through them unhindered (although they may be closely monitored for suspicious or military activities, but that was happening long before Regan declared any EEZ)). The EEZ restrictions usually only have to do with fishing and mineral rights. This is not always a bad thing as it can keep areas from being over fished to the point of extinction of certain species and it can prevent shady operators from setting up an oil rig 12.1 miles offshore and drilling with no regulations at all.
 
2013-12-25 12:02:43 PM

Rusty Shackleford: Bring it on.  We have our crack First Nations tripwire force ready, complete with WW2 Lee-Enfield rifles waiting.


Hell, we can't be arsed to build any new icebreaking hulls, so that's probably all you NEED to deal with us.
 
2013-12-25 12:03:28 PM

Cyber_Junk: If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander


That's the EEZ, not U.S. territorial waters.  I could very well be wrong, but Canada's EEZ would be unaffected if the Northwest Passage allowed freedom of transit.
 
2013-12-25 12:04:30 PM

Inquisitive Inquisitor: Cyber_Junk: If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander

That's the EEZ, not U.S. territorial waters.  I could very well be wrong, but Canada's EEZ would be unaffected if the Northwest Passage allowed freedom of transit.


Eh, nevermind.  I'm wrong.
 
2013-12-25 12:07:11 PM
Denmark (as the custodian of Greenland)

Always wondered why Denmark was always involved in these sort of disputes.
 
2013-12-25 12:11:29 PM

Cyber_Junk: TheDarkSaintOfGin: phaseolus: Cyber_Junk: Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.

Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territorial_waters_-_United_States .s vg

If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander

This is the international standard that Canada & Russia have the right to apply:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_ t he_Sea#Signature_and_ratification

Now, the U.S. doesn't recognize it as they have not signed it.  Losing out on those sweet, sweet resources in the now melting Arctic Circle because of lack of land up there.   etc etc


This shouldn't surprise anyone.  The last thing the US wants to do is to agree to a fair system when an unfair one suits them better.


I would like to think that the U.S., China, and Russia will in my lifetime start working together within international norms.  Of course, Putin's lot will have to lose power, republicans will need to die off, and well China needs to put on big boy pants and stop trying to pretend that they're still a developing nation.

/first, security council reform, then the U.S. joins the ICC are stepsI'd like to see
 
2013-12-25 12:13:33 PM

Rixel: Denmark (as the custodian of Greenland)

Always wondered why Denmark was always involved in these sort of disputes.


Yeah, and the article is factually incorrect. Greenland is a Danish island, Denmark isn't a custodian or anything. Making such a claim is like saying that the United Kingdom is the custodian of Scotland, which would be equally wrong.

But yeah that's why.

There's tons of uranium up in Greenland as well btw.. Though that's not legal to mine under Danish law.

Though realistically speaking, what we really need in that area is a lot of uranium mining and oil exploration. And perhaps if we melted all the ice it would be easier to get too.
 
2013-12-25 12:14:00 PM

Inquisitive Inquisitor: That's the EEZ, not U.S. territorial waters. I could very well be wrong, but Canada's EEZ would be unaffected if the Northwest Passage allowed freedom of transit.


Territorial waters = Full control over everything within 12 miles of land. Exceptions are made where there are two land masses less than 24 miles apart but the gap is still more than wide enough to allow for safe navigation as long as the goal is to pass through and not to stop at any of the land masses. Gibraltar is a very good example of this where there's less than 8 nautical miles between Africa and Europe. Nobody disputes the right of free passage from the Med to the Atlantic though there.
 
2013-12-25 12:21:14 PM
Cold war.

[iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg]
 
2013-12-25 12:22:23 PM
i.imgur.com

The middle areas of the passage go straight through the northern part of Canada, looks pretty damn Canadian in those parts to me. I guess there is an exception to the 12 mile rule when it comes to straits and other passages, although in this case it isn't just one narrow strait but thousands of miles worth of them because there's a crapton of islands up there.
 
2013-12-25 12:39:31 PM
It's Canada's.

There.
 
2013-12-25 12:43:24 PM

Cyber_Junk: Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.

Have you seen the size of the 'territorial waters' that the United States claim around their country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territorial_waters_-_United_States .s vg

If Canada applies the same standard around all of its land holdings it would mean a massive area.    What's good for the goose is good for the gander


UM
pretty much the same as every other country
EXCEPT

There are always exceptions for things like straights and passages.
And wars start over people closing the passages.

this is about resources, not passage.
blah
 
2013-12-25 12:46:52 PM
www.trademarkia.com

NOOOOOOOO, you can't have it! That's where the good stuff is.
 
2013-12-25 12:47:11 PM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-12-25 12:49:32 PM

Zeno-25: The middle areas of the passage go straight through the northern part of Canada, looks pretty damn Canadian in those parts to me. I guess there is an exception to the 12 mile rule when it comes to straits and other passages, although in this case it isn't just one narrow strait but thousands of miles worth of them because there's a crapton of islands up there.


Free passage has nothing to do with how many separate land masses there are to pass between (see the Straits of Magellan for another example).

Canada could require the use of Canadian pilots on every ship that passes through due to navigational concerns and that's usually standard practice in restricted waters inside of the 12 mile limits of any nation anyway however the passage in and of itself is usually unhindered unless there are valid safety concerns regarding navigation, the seaworthiness of the ship itself or, in a few cases, extremely hazardous cargo.

For example in the case of waters where ice is a valid concern they may require that the ship meet certain ice-worthiness specifications (hull thickness or other structural requirements) that ships passing through straits in warmer waters where that's not a concern don't have to meet. In other words they don't give up the right to regulate ships in their territorial waters they just can't have a blanket "No passage" policy.
 
2013-12-25 01:16:49 PM
"We know that the (opposition) Liberals do not think that the North Pole or Santa Claus are in Canada. We do. We are going to make sure that we protect them as best we can," Calandra said.

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau agreed, saying: "Everyone knows that Santa Claus is Canadian.

"His postal code is H0H 0H0,'' he said, alluding to a mailing address assigned to Santa by Canada Post. (The postal service responds each year to tens of thousands of children's letters from around the world addressed to Santa Claus, North Pole, H0H 0H0, Canada.)


This is satire, right?
 
2013-12-25 01:28:50 PM
1. Hire Finns
2. ??? Victory
 
2013-12-25 01:30:52 PM
palelizard:
"His postal code is H0H 0H0,'' he said, alluding to a mailing address assigned to Santa by Canada Post. (The postal service responds each year to tens of thousands of children's letters from around the world addressed to Santa Claus, North Pole, H0H 0H0, Canada.)

This is satire, right?


Nope. Canada Post actually responds to anything mailed to North Pole, H0H 0H0
 
2013-12-25 02:24:51 PM
How long before we get a beach resort there?   We could build a city of interconnected oil platforms and ship in some sand for the summer on a floating barge.  Give whaling and seal clubbing tours.
 
2013-12-25 03:20:25 PM

LewDux: 1. Hire Finns
2. ??? Victory


They're very industrious.
 
2013-12-25 03:45:49 PM
Maybe they can resolve the standoff with a hockey tournament. 2014 summit series!
 
2013-12-25 03:48:45 PM

WippitGuud: palelizard:
"His postal code is H0H 0H0,'' he said, alluding to a mailing address assigned to Santa by Canada Post. (The postal service responds each year to tens of thousands of children's letters from around the world addressed to Santa Claus, North Pole, H0H 0H0, Canada.)

This is satire, right?

Nope. Canada Post actually responds to anything mailed to North Pole, H0H 0H0


They do. It's kind of cool.
 
2013-12-25 03:54:43 PM
It's not disputed, it's farking OURS. See what happens if you successfully piss off Canadians.
 
2013-12-25 03:57:11 PM

Inquisitive Inquisitor: sno man: unyon: You know what would be really cool?  If our supposed ally the US would recognize our claim.  Hell, we'd be happy if they'd recognize our claim over the northwest passage.

They wont, they want it too.

Not entirely.  The U.S. has always backed an open seas policy.  Canada's claim that the Northwest Passage lies within Canadian territorial waters is ludicrous considering the extent of the ocean involved.  It's akin to saying that the Indian ocean belongs to India because they share a name.  It's better to treat the passage as international waters, free to the use of everyone, rather than posture and threaten over who "owns" it.


Nevermind that all of the land on all sides is Canada's, with the exception of Alaska. The greater sea isn't ours; but the passages between the thousands of Canadian islands certainly is.
 
2013-12-25 04:21:15 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Arctic_Sea_Ice_Min i mum_Comparison.png 

hmmmmm I guess I see the problem.
And yes, that open passage would all be canadian.

Except that I thought that this was about the area which is still under ice, and the resources under it.
 
2013-12-25 04:48:51 PM
Around 15 years ago, Canada and the US got into a dust-up over fish, and that manifested in the Inside Passage (coast of BC between Alaska and Washington).  The Canadians talked about possibly charging Alaskans $1,500 per vessel, and we had politicians (I'm not kidding) suggesting that we send convoys of boats flanked by US Coast Guard to enforce the right of passage.  No way THAT could have gone wrong.

Then, Canadian fishermen blockaded one of our state ferries, screwing up schedules throughout southeast Alaska.  It was then the time for Canadian politicians to be helpful, supporting the blockade.

The real frustration is that the problem was government to government.  Once fishermen got together to try and work things out, there was forward motion until the governments cut off negotiations.  Things were... almost amiable on the ground until governments started screwing with safe passage in protected waters.
 
2013-12-25 05:54:48 PM

LavenderWolf: It's not disputed, it's farking OURS. See what happens if you successfully piss off Canadians.


Canada has ratified the treaty that says the continental shelf dictates who the North Pole belongs too.

Should Denmarks surveys find that the continental shelf of Greenland extends close enough, then tough luck.
 
2013-12-25 06:16:12 PM

Kittypie070: LewDux: 1. Hire Finns
2. ??? Victory

They're very industrious.


Indeed. They can outdrink the Russians, outwork the Canadians, and outwit the Americans
 
2013-12-25 06:21:17 PM

spawn73: LavenderWolf: It's not disputed, it's farking OURS. See what happens if you successfully piss off Canadians.

Canada has ratified the treaty that says the continental shelf dictates who the North Pole belongs too.

Should Denmarks surveys find that the continental shelf of Greenland extends close enough, then tough luck.


I don't see why it would extend farther than the one we're on, but I guess it's a gamble, eh?
 
2013-12-25 07:33:07 PM

spawn73: Rixel: Denmark (as the custodian of Greenland)

Always wondered why Denmark was always involved in these sort of disputes.

Yeah, and the article is factually incorrect. Greenland is a Danish island, Denmark isn't a custodian or anything. Making such a claim is like saying that the United Kingdom is the custodian of Scotland, which would be equally wrong.

But yeah that's why.

There's tons of uranium up in Greenland as well btw.. Though that's not legal to mine under Danish law.

Though realistically speaking, what we really need in that area is a lot of uranium mining and oil exploration. And perhaps if we melted all the ice it would be easier to get too.


Does Danish law apply to mining though? In 07 or 09 Greenland was granted local control over mineral extraction, as a way to wean them off their 4 billion kroner yearly allowance. So uranium mining should be up to Nuuk.
 
2013-12-25 08:19:00 PM

zerkalo: Kittypie070: LewDux: 1. Hire Finns
2. ??? Victory

They're very industrious.

FTFY


So this guy was looking for a girl who is prostitute in bed, beauty in public and chief in kitchen...
 
Displayed 50 of 64 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report