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(NBC News)   Rand Paul's plan for Motown is about as well received as a Rockwell album   (nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com) divider line 121
    More: Interesting, Rand Paul, Motown, Mackinac Center, Economy of metropolitan Detroit, Kentucky Senators, bond credit rating, Wayne State University, Wayne State  
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3100 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Dec 2013 at 8:12 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-25 07:49:19 AM  
The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.
 
2013-12-25 08:17:05 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.


Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.
 
2013-12-25 08:26:32 AM  
Same old meaningless platitudes.  There's nothing behind them.  Nothing at all.
 
2013-12-25 08:26:33 AM  
Chart Performance of Somebody's Watching Me, by Rockwell

#2 song on US Billboard Hot 100
#1 song on US Billboard Hot Black Singles
#3 song on US Billboard Hot Dance Club Play


/ Sounds good to me
 
2013-12-25 08:29:12 AM  
TFA doesn't say who actually came up with this plan.
 
2013-12-25 08:29:26 AM  

qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.


I'm guessing you didn't really know that Rand Paul had a lot of other stuff that he said in that speech nor that Detroit is coming off thirty years of corrupt local government where enterprise zones may give you tax breaks but require you to make massive payments to the mayor, his father or any number of other parties. Nothing has really been tried before in an environment where it might work.

NBC decided to focus on one element of his speech, try to discredit it, and then go with a recommendation for a federal bailout of the pension mess.

I'm not a big Rand Paul fan but agree that the State, City and local business community should work on this and keep the Feeds the hell out regardless of how many votes may be for sale there.

Surprised I am not
 
2013-12-25 08:29:55 AM  
The GOP sends a guy with white supremacist ties to Detroit......Brilliant!
 
2013-12-25 08:34:07 AM  

Alphax: Same old meaningless platitudes.  There's nothing behind them.  Nothing at all.


th07.deviantart.net
 
2013-12-25 08:38:51 AM  
FTFA: But basically, I think that most pension plans that have been set up by cities - and many private businesses - are fraudulent," Paul told NBC News in an interview

I realize the Republicans are all about outreach, but they really have to rethink their normal strategy of "attack the other side".
Going after folks with pensions - the majority of the Republican base - ain't gonna play so well, Senator.
 
2013-12-25 08:39:30 AM  
What Detroit needs is another Henry Ford. Problem, CEOs today by and large do everything they can to be as far from what Henry Ford was as possible. Indeed it's a big part of why Detroit is such a mess.
 
2013-12-25 08:39:36 AM  
So divestment.
 
2013-12-25 08:40:56 AM  
Pretty sure he plagiarized this plan from Cuomo for areas around SUNY campuses. These plans seem farked because if you are a business that happens to be right outside the zone you now have to compete with new businesses that are paying no taxes and not only that you get the satisfaction of knowing the taxes you are paying are going to cover the infrastructure your competitors are using.
 
2013-12-25 08:44:14 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

I'm guessing you didn't really know that Rand Paul had a lot of other stuff that he said in that speech nor that Detroit is coming off thirty years of corrupt local government where enterprise zones may give you tax breaks but require you to make massive payments to the mayor, his father or any number of other parties. Nothing has really been tried before in an environment where it might work.

NBC decided to focus on one element of his speech, try to discredit it, and then go with a recommendation for a federal bailout of the pension mess.

I'm not a big Rand Paul fan but agree that the State, City and local business community should work on this and keep the Feeds the hell out regardless of how many votes may be for sale there.

Surprised I am not


Giving tax breaks to a population that doesn't have any money in the first place will not improve the economy.  Sending chosen, privileged students to private charter schools by draining money from public schools does not result in a net improvement in education, just more pronounced divisions in class.  Advertising tax breaks to corporations may work in theory, but few businesses will move to a major metropolitan city with a poorly educated workforce.  The solution of state, local, and city players fixing this problem is naive, as they simply do not have the resources.  Detroit obviously made errors in its pension plan; however, it's hard to miss that Paul only cares about mistakes and inefficiencies when they favor the working class.  He will never go to another poor city to attempt to help the poor and unemployed there.  The only reason he's in Detroit is because he thinks he can use their history to grandstand, and concerning many of the idiots who follow him, he's right.
 
2013-12-25 08:46:41 AM  
Capital gains are already at 15%.  If anything, they need to be raised, to at least match labor rates.
 
2013-12-25 08:47:37 AM  

IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.


Or maybe Rand's "plan" has been tried before, and it didn't work.

/Seriously. The city already has low tax "Renissance Zones", and they haven't worked. Low taxes and magical thinking won't fix Detroit's problems.
 
2013-12-25 08:48:46 AM  
He should try those brilliant ideas in Kentucky.

/like getting diet advice from a fat guy
 
2013-12-25 08:50:57 AM  

qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.


Sure, Santa will deliver the economic windfalls.
Trickle down theories + Ayan Rand free market brain farts = Santa delivering economic windfalls for the poor.
 
2013-12-25 08:51:14 AM  

TwoBeersOneCan: IamKaiserSoze!!!: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

I'm guessing you didn't really know that Rand Paul had a lot of other stuff that he said in that speech nor that Detroit is coming off thirty years of corrupt local government where enterprise zones may give you tax breaks but require you to make massive payments to the mayor, his father or any number of other parties. Nothing has really been tried before in an environment where it might work.

NBC decided to focus on one element of his speech, try to discredit it, and then go with a recommendation for a federal bailout of the pension mess.

I'm not a big Rand Paul fan but agree that the State, City and local business community should work on this and keep the Feeds the hell out regardless of how many votes may be for sale there.

Surprised I am not

Giving tax breaks to a population that doesn't have any money in the first place will not improve the economy.  Sending chosen, privileged students to private charter schools by draining money from public schools does not result in a net improvement in education, just more pronounced divisions in class.  Advertising tax breaks to corporations may work in theory, but few businesses will move to a major metropolitan city with a poorly educated workforce.  The solution of state, local, and city players fixing this problem is naive, as they simply do not have the resources.  Detroit obviously made errors in its pension plan; however, it's hard to miss that Paul only cares about mistakes and inefficiencies when they favor the working class.  He will never go to another poor city to attempt to help the poor and unemployed there.  The only reason he's in Detroit is because he thinks he can use their history to grandstand, and concerning many of the idiots who follow him, he's right.


But... but... free market. Tax cuts. Invisible hand.

I uses the magic words, that means this plan will work, right?
 
2013-12-25 08:52:19 AM  
What is it about Rand Paul that is SO creepy...I mean aside from his smug contempt for every other fellow human or his 3rd rate"superior" ideas...and his worship of this Vamp
images.nymag.com
 
2013-12-25 08:53:47 AM  
Anyone who takes advice - especially economic advice - from RAND PAUL deserves what they get.
 
2013-12-25 08:56:09 AM  

starsrift: FTFA: But basically, I think that most pension plans that have been set up by cities - and many private businesses - are fraudulent," Paul told NBC News in an interview

I realize the Republicans are all about outreach, but they really have to rethink their normal strategy of "attack the other side".
Going after folks with pensions - the majority of the Republican base - ain't gonna play so well, Senator.


You know what?  Just let them do it.  Let Republicans cancel and restructure ALL pensions that they consider fraudulent, especially those belonging to private businesses.

These idiots keep electing Republicans, it's time they get a better taste of what that means.

Of course, most of these dipshiats would just blame "the liberals."
 
2013-12-25 09:04:53 AM  
Gotta love libertarians.

ALL CONTRACTS ARE SACROSANCT. THE GOVERNMENTS ONLY JOB IS ENFORCING CONTRACTS.
unless that contract is government or business being required to pay people the money they earned.
 
2013-12-25 09:05:39 AM  

TwoBeersOneCan: Giving tax breaks to a population that doesn't have any money in the first place will not improve the economy.  Sending chosen, privileged students to private charter schools by draining money from public schools does not result in a net improvement in education, just more pronounced divisions in class.  Advertising tax breaks to corporations may work in theory, but few businesses will move to a major metropolitan city with a poorly educated workforce.  The solution of state, local, and city players fixing this problem is naive, as they simply do not have the resources.  Detroit obviously made errors in its pension plan; however, it's hard to miss that Paul only cares about mistakes and inefficiencies when they favor the working class.  He will never go to another poor city to attempt to help the poor and unemployed there.  The only reason he's ...


QFT

We have almost 30 years of experience with what makes cities vibrant and viable.

It comes down to three really simple things:

1) The arts--they are the single largest source of revenue in many cities. They attract more visitors than any other venture, employ more people, and generate the kind of indirect spending that can push a city into relative wealth. 

2) Public transportation--absolutely dollar for dollar one of the best investments a city can make. 

3) Education--having a population that is able to step into jobs with ease and also attracting the kinds of people doing work at a higher level who support quality of life initiatives and act as the base consumers of the kinds of things that set one city apart from another tends to draw both good employers and the retirees who have money to spend on entertainment.

The Boston metropolitan area is a fantastic model for how to redirect cities that are struggling. There are many others but it is one of the cities that really committed to these three areas and did so with enormous success.

The things we know clearly are not worth focusing on are:

1) Tax breaks for businesses.

2) Sports.

3) Conventions.

There are no magic wands but we have very strong evidence of what works and what doesn't. Detroit has all the ingredients to become a thriving metropolis again, it just needs some leaders with vision and guts.
 
2013-12-25 09:05:50 AM  
At first I thought the headline was talking about that shiatheel Lew Rockwell that wrote many of Ron Paul's most racist newsletters.

I need to drink more coffee.
 
2013-12-25 09:10:31 AM  
Jesus Christ, article.

How the fark can you say that the single biggest problem is pensions, and then say that two thirds of Detroit's population leaving in the past 50 years and the auto industry leaving town "don't help matters."

Pensions are part of the problem, sure, but having literally TWO THIRDS of your tax base leave (Population was 1.85m in 1950 and 681k now) is huge.  Having the city's biggest industry leave is huge.  There are large parts of Detroit that are EMPTY.  The city has bigger problems than pensions and bigger problems than bankruptcy.

Instead, we get this dumpster fire of an article, that only talks about Rand Paul and some other super-conservative guy who opposes Paul's plan because it's unfair to give black people anything that anyone else isn't getting.  Yeah, totally balanced.

And half this thread is going to be people complaining about how liberal NBC is.
 
2013-12-25 09:12:33 AM  

nakmuay: TFA doesn't say who actually came up with this plan.


[BunnyColvin.jpg]
 
2013-12-25 09:16:46 AM  

Descartes: Chart Performance of Somebody's Watching Me, by Rockwell

#2 song on US Billboard Hot 100
#1 song on US Billboard Hot Black Singles
#3 song on US Billboard Hot Dance Club Play


/ Sounds good to me


Ignoring the difference between 'singles' and 'albums' for the moment, why don't we look at Rockwell albums that DIDN'T prominently feature Michael Jackson?
 
2013-12-25 09:20:36 AM  

qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.


But the magic of the free market only works if you believe hard enough! That's why it's magic!
 
2013-12-25 09:22:04 AM  

fenianfark: At first I thought the headline was talking about that shiatheel Lew Rockwell that wrote many of Ron Paul's most racist newsletters.

I need to drink more coffee.



Subby obviously meant this:
www.freecodesource.com
 
2013-12-25 09:30:52 AM  
stupid sexy flanders
 
2013-12-25 09:33:46 AM  

Snarfangel: fenianfark: At first I thought the headline was talking about that shiatheel Lew Rockwell that wrote many of Ron Paul's most racist newsletters.

I need to drink more coffee.


Subby obviously meant this:
[www.freecodesource.com image 500x441]


Why is Santa Claus about to rape children?
 
2013-12-25 09:39:36 AM  

loser0: Gotta love libertarians.

ALL CONTRACTS ARE SACROSANCT. THE GOVERNMENTS ONLY JOB IS ENFORCING CONTRACTS.
unless that contract is government or business being required to pay people the money they earned.

www.itsoverproductions.com


Quark would agree with that....
 
2013-12-25 09:45:02 AM  

HeartBurnKid: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

But the magic of the free market only works if you believe hard enough! That's why it's magic!


PURE, UNFETTERED CAPITALISM CANNOT FAIL.  IT CAN ONLY BE FAILED.
 
2013-12-25 09:47:34 AM  
So the free market changes, the Big Three guts manufacturing in the Detroit area, and the libertarians, the very people who insist that "free market" is a good thing, say that the ills of Detroit are (of course) due to gubbmint gubbmint gubbmint.

Apparently they believe that the gubbmint getting out of the way of industry in Mexico and China is a good thing.  I wonder why they don't go live in Mexico and China.

I also wonder what kind of jobs their Freedom Super-Fun Liberty Zones will produce to replace the manufacturing jobs.  It appears that they think that all you need to do is get rid of taxes and stand back, and then voila, Instant Economic Miracle.
 
2013-12-25 09:58:01 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Capital gains are already at 15%.  If anything, they need to be raised, to at least match labor rates.


Very true.
 
2013-12-25 10:01:48 AM  
Detroit is so difficult because the causes are both liberal and conservative. Politicians can't solve something until after they've blamed the other party for causing the mess.
 
2013-12-25 10:03:00 AM  
"Economic Freedom Zone" has to be the biggest steaming pile of Newspeak, ever.
 
2013-12-25 10:04:00 AM  

hardinparamedic: Snarfangel: fenianfark: At first I thought the headline was talking about that shiatheel Lew Rockwell that wrote many of Ron Paul's most racist newsletters.

I need to drink more coffee.


Subby obviously meant this:
[www.freecodesource.com image 500x441]

Why is Santa Claus about to rape children?


And why is Santa Jewish?
 
2013-12-25 10:04:25 AM  

ginandbacon: The things we know clearly are not worth focusing on are:

1) Tax breaks for businesses.

2) Sports.

3) Conventions.


in new orleans 1 doesn't do much if anything. 2 brings in a good amount with the saints, pelicans and all the action the dome gets with assorted bowls. granted it's not consistent but filling the city's 25,000+ hotel rooms along with the associated food and beverage isn't chump change. 3 same here. we do a good number of big conventions and lots of small ones. again lots of room revenue and food and beverage.

our three legs are tourism (see 2 and 3), the port and the medical/teaching area. since katrina tourism has played a  bigger role. and keep in mind the hotel/motel tax which is what 15% now sure helps the city's bottom line.
 
2013-12-25 10:07:37 AM  

TwoBeersOneCan: IamKaiserSoze!!!: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

I'm guessing you didn't really know that Rand Paul had a lot of other stuff that he said in that speech nor that Detroit is coming off thirty years of corrupt local government where enterprise zones may give you tax breaks but require you to make massive payments to the mayor, his father or any number of other parties. Nothing has really been tried before in an environment where it might work.

NBC decided to focus on one element of his speech, try to discredit it, and then go with a recommendation for a federal bailout of the pension mess.

I'm not a big Rand Paul fan but agree that the State, City and local business community should work on this and keep the Feeds the hell out regardless of how many votes may be for sale there.

Surprised I am not

Giving tax breaks to a population that doesn't have any money in the first place will not improve the economy.  Sending chosen, privileged students to private charter schools by draining money from public schools does not result in a net improvement in education, just more pronounced divisions in class.  Advertising tax breaks to corporations may work in theory, but few businesses will move to a major metropolitan city with a poorly educated workforce.  The solution of state, local, and city players fixing this problem is naive, as they simply do not have the resources.  Detroit obviously made errors in its pension plan; however, it's hard to miss that Paul only cares about mistakes and inefficiencies when they favor the working class.  He will never go to another poor city to attempt to help the poor and unemployed there.  The only reason he's in Detroit is because he thinks he can use their history to grandstand, and concerning many of the idiots who follow him, he's right.


Well put sir.
 
2013-12-25 10:14:55 AM  

missiv: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

Sure, Santa will deliver the economic windfalls.
Trickle down theories + Ayan Rand free market brain farts = Santa delivering economic windfalls for the poor.


Wait you guys are using Ayn Rand to explain the problems of Detroit? Has everyone taken crazy pills in here?
 
2013-12-25 10:20:44 AM  

ginandbacon: It comes down to three really simple things:

1) The arts--they are the single largest source of revenue in many cities. They attract more visitors than any other venture, employ more people, and generate the kind of indirect spending that can push a city into relative wealth.

2) Public transportation--absolutely dollar for dollar one of the best investments a city can make.

3) Education--having a population that is able to step into jobs with ease and also attracting the kinds of people doing work at a higher level who support quality of life initiatives and act as the base consumers of the kinds of things that set one city apart from another tends to draw both good employers and the retirees who have money to spend on entertainment.

The Boston metropolitan area is a fantastic model for how to redirect cities that are struggling. There are many others but it is one of the cities that really committed to these three areas and did so with enormous success.

The things we know clearly are not worth focusing on are:

1) Tax breaks for businesses.

2) Sports.

3) Conventions.

There are no magic wands but we have very strong evidence of what works and what doesn't. Detroit has all the ingredients to become a thriving metropolis again, it just needs some leaders with vision and guts.


While you're correct in the sense that cities need certain things to prosper, I would disagree with your assessment for Detroit. The biggest issue hitting the city is so much square acreage but limited funding for police and fire department coverage. Detroit has been (and needs to do it much quicker) knocking down abandoned neighborhoods and selling the land to divest itself of the obligation. Corn fields don't need nearly as much protection.

Simply put, the city, built on one industry, expanded rapidly and then became shocked when that one industry started getting hurt. People left, which hurt revenues, which hurt services, which caused more people to leave. Fixing the city may require serious cuts to pension obligations because the pensions were set up on the assumption that Detroit would have 2+ million people. That, and a serious Keynesian push from the state and federal level, would do wonders for the city. But that's socialism, and it makes baby Jesus cry.
 
2013-12-25 10:23:56 AM  

lelio: missiv: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

Sure, Santa will deliver the economic windfalls.
Trickle down theories + Ayan Rand free market brain farts = Santa delivering economic windfalls for the poor.

Wait you guys are using Ayn Rand to explain the problems of Detroit? Has everyone taken crazy pills in here?



1. Ayn Rand was a bad person.
2. Bad things happened to Detroit.
3. Therefore, Ayn Rand did bad things to Detroit.

Q.E.D.
 
2013-12-25 10:28:40 AM  

DrD'isInfotainment: What is it about Rand Paul that is SO creepy...


He has the dead eyes of a True Believer, in most cases that comes from religion but for him its his weird neoconfederate policies.  He knows, deep down in his soul he Knows, that if the country would just follow his advice we'd be living in a golden age of both economic prosperity and race relations.
 
2013-12-25 10:28:52 AM  

Curious: ginandbacon: The things we know clearly are not worth focusing on are:

1) Tax breaks for businesses.

2) Sports.

3) Conventions.

in new orleans 1 doesn't do much if anything. 2 brings in a good amount with the saints, pelicans and all the action the dome gets with assorted bowls. granted it's not consistent but filling the city's 25,000+ hotel rooms along with the associated food and beverage isn't chump change. 3 same here. we do a good number of big conventions and lots of small ones. again lots of room revenue and food and beverage.

our three legs are tourism (see 2 and 3), the port and the medical/teaching area. since katrina tourism has played a  bigger role. and keep in mind the hotel/motel tax which is what 15% now sure helps the city's bottom line.


"Direct employment in the cultural industries provides about $1.1 billion in wages. Average wages range from $17,000 to over $100,000 and many individual artists supplement their average wage of $17,000 with employment in other sectors. The average wage of all cultural sector workers is $57,632; or $21,132 (58%) more than the estimated median household income in New Orleans in 2009, $36,500."

Source.

"Taxpayers have, in stages, provided about $1 billion to build and later renovate what is now known as the Mercedes-Benz Superdome. (All monetary figures in this article have been converted to 2013 dollars.) The Saints' owner, Tom Benson, whose net worth  Forbes estimates at $1.2 billion, keeps nearly all revenue from ticket sales, concessions, parking, and broadcast rights. Taxpayers even footed the bill for the addition of leather stadium seats with cup holders to cradle the drinks they are charged for at concession stands. And corporate welfare for the Saints doesn't stop at stadium construction and renovation costs. Though Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal claims to be an anti-spending conservative, each year the state of Louisiana forcibly extracts up to $6 million from its residents' pockets and gives the cash to Benson as an "inducement payment"-the actual term used-to keep Benson from developing a wandering eye."

Source.

"...national venues have seen a similar decline. As the Brookings Institution's Sanders writes, "major commercial centers, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, and New Orleans have all seen significant recent loss in convention activity, even as they expand their convention centers." 

Source.
 
2013-12-25 10:30:05 AM  

Curious: ginandbacon: The things we know clearly are not worth focusing on are:

1) Tax breaks for businesses.

2) Sports.

3) Conventions.

in new orleans 1 doesn't do much if anything. 2 brings in a good amount with the saints, pelicans and all the action the dome gets with assorted bowls. granted it's not consistent but filling the city's 25,000+ hotel rooms along with the associated food and beverage isn't chump change. 3 same here. we do a good number of big conventions and lots of small ones. again lots of room revenue and food and beverage.

our three legs are tourism (see 2 and 3), the port and the medical/teaching area. since katrina tourism has played a  bigger role. and keep in mind the hotel/motel tax which is what 15% now sure helps the city's bottom line.


Which will last until one of the owners does the same thing the last owners did...demand all that tax revenue back to build a new stadium or they are leaving.
 
2013-12-25 10:30:27 AM  

TV's Vinnie: "Economic Freedom Zone" has to be the biggest steaming pile of Newspeak, ever.


'Economic Freedom Zone' = 'if you work, you will be used, abused, and discarded'.
 
2013-12-25 10:30:47 AM  

Smackledorfer: TwoBeersOneCan: IamKaiserSoze!!!: qorkfiend: IamKaiserSoze!!!: The speech was three weeks ago. Nothing farkworthy has happened since then?

NBC doesn't like a plan that opposes central planning and relies on free market?

I am shocked.

Maybe MSNBC will be more open.

Or maybe Detroit's already tried similar measures with little success. I'm sure it'll work this time if we believe hard enough.

I'm guessing you didn't really know that Rand Paul had a lot of other stuff that he said in that speech nor that Detroit is coming off thirty years of corrupt local government where enterprise zones may give you tax breaks but require you to make massive payments to the mayor, his father or any number of other parties. Nothing has really been tried before in an environment where it might work.

NBC decided to focus on one element of his speech, try to discredit it, and then go with a recommendation for a federal bailout of the pension mess.

I'm not a big Rand Paul fan but agree that the State, City and local business community should work on this and keep the Feeds the hell out regardless of how many votes may be for sale there.

Surprised I am not

Giving tax breaks to a population that doesn't have any money in the first place will not improve the economy.  Sending chosen, privileged students to private charter schools by draining money from public schools does not result in a net improvement in education, just more pronounced divisions in class.  Advertising tax breaks to corporations may work in theory, but few businesses will move to a major metropolitan city with a poorly educated workforce.  The solution of state, local, and city players fixing this problem is naive, as they simply do not have the resources.  Detroit obviously made errors in its pension plan; however, it's hard to miss that Paul only cares about mistakes and inefficiencies when they favor the working class.  He will never go to another poor city to attempt to help the poor and unemployed there.  The only reason he's in Detroit is because he thinks he can use their history to grandstand, and concerning many of the idiots who follow him, he's right.

Well put sir.


I agree. Plus considering Rand Paul is a Senator from Kentucky, part of the "federal government", doesn't that mean he is a hypocrite for not following his own "advice" and staying out of their business? He just made a speech saying the solution to Detroit's problems should be local and not federal, while proposing a "one size fits all" conservative plan from the federal level. When you think about it; pretty much every phase of the Republican solution for Detroit takes the power out of the local level and puts it in the hands of someone less connected to the city, and incorporates what is basically conservative "central planning". Whether it is the state appointed city administrator or the federal senator who represents Kentucky and did not receive one vote from Michigan.

Like I have said before, Republicans aren't against a centrally planned nanny state, they just want to be the nannies.  That and "stick it to the libs" while doing it.
 
2013-12-25 10:33:38 AM  
Because what's really keeping Fortune 500 businesses away from Detroit are the high taxes and pension funds and not the fact it's a violent post-apocalyptic wasteland abandoned by the kindness of man and God alike for the last 30 years.

Zero taxes is not enough. You would have to pay companies to set up in Detroit, probably more than the existing pension burdens. This is yet another attempt by the Republican Party to grow a new teat on the federal government from which big business can suckle. Transferring money from public to private sector so they can use budgetary shortages as an casus belli to slash further entitlements.
 
2013-12-25 10:41:24 AM  

heavymetal: I agree. Plus considering Rand Paul is a Senator from Kentucky, part of the "federal government", doesn't that mean he is a hypocrite for not following his own "advice" and staying out of their business? He just made a speech saying the solution to Detroit's problems should be local and not federal, while proposing a "one size fits all" conservative plan from the federal level. When you think about it; pretty much every phase of the Republican solution for Detroit takes the power out of the local level and puts it in the hands of someone less connected to the city, and incorporates what is basically conservative "central planning". Whether it is the state appointed city administrator or the federal senator who represents Kentucky and did not receive one vote from Michigan.

Like I have said before, Republicans aren't against a centrally planned nanny state, they just want to be the nannies. That and "stick it to the libs" while doing it.


The problem is that Detroit is screwed without some outside help. They don't have enough revenue to bootstrap themselves, so they need state and federal help. The best thing Detroit could do is pour money into their universities for engineering and machining programs (with matching grants from the automakers). But screwed up infrastructure and serious financial obligations are state and federal problems, which require larger pools of money to fix.

Personally, I'd be cool with a four year program to fix major urban centers. 8 billion a year, and the city gets massive infrastructure spending, upgrades to police and fire departments, major university program annuities set up (for the book learnin' not the football throwing), and all the local political weasels get to put their names on shiny new things. I don't care how the city gets picked; let the President do it or draw names from a hat.
 
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