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(Mercury News)   State of Utah still in the "denial" stage of grief over gay marriage   (mercurynews.com) divider line 157
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3824 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Dec 2013 at 2:35 PM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-24 01:50:03 PM
I don't really approve of it but seeing the people that are obviously made happy as these folks seem to be. Why should my beliefs stand in the way? It is not making me unhappy or changing my life at all so let them be happy,happy, happy too.

Merry Christmas everyone.
 
2013-12-24 01:57:03 PM
Spent all that time and money fighting it in another state, and it snuck right in their back door
 
2013-12-24 01:58:13 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Spent all that time and money fighting it in another state, and it snuck right in their back door


Lol.
 
2013-12-24 02:02:04 PM
the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.
 
2013-12-24 02:05:07 PM
In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?
 
2013-12-24 02:18:09 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.


www.addictinginfo.org
 
2013-12-24 02:39:39 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?


Nah, judges LOVE have direct orders ignored. The guy should be fine.
 
2013-12-24 02:39:54 PM
They should take their own advice.  "Just lay back and try to enjoy it, it will be over soon enough".
 
2013-12-24 02:40:00 PM

Bob Falfa: Sin_City_Superhero: the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.

[www.addictinginfo.org image 499x377]


If they had included "Zombie Apocalypse" on that pie chart, it'd be all black. Or BRAAAAAAAAAAAAINS...
 
2013-12-24 02:40:58 PM
Is "impotent rage" or "republican tears" a better aphrodisiac?
It's a puzzlement.
 
2013-12-24 02:43:09 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?


No, no, and IANAL but yes.
 
2013-12-24 02:43:36 PM
This is just a preview of how the other red states are going to be when it gets overturned there. Better get used to it, cons.
 
2013-12-24 02:46:49 PM
Assholes being assholes...
 
2013-12-24 02:47:37 PM
Utah, I know the butthurt is strong right now, but it'll get easier over time.
 
2013-12-24 02:48:43 PM
It's just so gosh darn unfair that we can't oppress a minority.
 
2013-12-24 02:49:39 PM

tinyarena: Is "impotent rage" or "republican tears" a better aphrodisiac?
It's a puzzlement.


Whynotboth.jpeg
 
2013-12-24 02:50:31 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?


It's the flip side of the county clerk in PA who defied state law to offer gay marriages. All the arguments for - amd against - what he did apply here
 
2013-12-24 02:51:03 PM
50 years from now the GOP and the religious right will take up the mantle of having fought for marriage equality, just as they fought for civil rights back in the 60's. Harvey Milk will be proven to have been a staunch religious conservative, and Fox News will have been the lone voice in the wilderness calling for freedom and equality. In fact, why wait? I anticipate my conservative kin pointing out these very same ideas to me 'round the dinner table this week.
 
2013-12-24 02:51:44 PM
As an Oregonian, let me just point out that we should be absolutely ashamed that Utah has beat us to gay marriage legalization.
 
2013-12-24 02:52:52 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Spent all that time and money fighting it in another state, and it snuck right in their back door


"The gay marriages are coming from inside your state!"
 
2013-12-24 02:52:52 PM
Kicking and screaming into the 21st century!
 
2013-12-24 02:52:53 PM
Why don't we simply get the government out of all marriages altogether?  Then it wouldn't matter who did what.  Straight, Gay, Poly.. if everyone in the marriage says everyone in the group is married, they are.  It's not really anyone else's business anyhow.
 
2013-12-24 02:53:08 PM

Hollie Maea: As an Oregonian, let me just point out that we should be absolutely ashamed that Utah has beat us to gay marriage legalization.


To be fair, Utah never expected it. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
 
2013-12-24 02:54:26 PM

0x1a4: Why don't we simply get the government out of all marriages altogether?  Then it wouldn't matter who did what.  Straight, Gay, Poly.. if everyone in the marriage says everyone in the group is married, they are.  It's not really anyone else's business anyhow.



The problem is that The Gubment gives stuff to married couples that they don't give to other couples.
 
2013-12-24 02:55:00 PM
Hey Utah -

i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-24 02:55:31 PM

Hollie Maea: As an Oregonian, let me just point out that we should be absolutely ashamed that Utah has beat us to gay marriage legalization.


You'll have to one-up them and make gay marijuana legal.
 
2013-12-24 02:56:23 PM
You'll get over it.
 
2013-12-24 02:59:30 PM

MFAWG: Hollie Maea: As an Oregonian, let me just point out that we should be absolutely ashamed that Utah has beat us to gay marriage legalization.

To be fair, Utah never expected it. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


NO ONE expects the (gay) Marriage Imposition!
 
2013-12-24 03:01:44 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?


Don't worry about him. Hes enjoying x-mas in a nice warm holding cell.

/Oh you mean violating a Judges order is only punishable to the little people? Oh well.

//The winter solstice celebrations were awesome. Pagans unite and take back X-mas from the heathens
 
2013-12-24 03:02:43 PM
Once you allow same sex couples to marry you are opening the door other ungodly unions like polygamy.
 
2013-12-24 03:05:56 PM

sheep snorter: Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?

Don't worry about him. Hes enjoying x-mas in a nice warm holding cell.

/Oh you mean violating a Judges order is only punishable to the little people? Oh well.

//The winter solstice celebrations were awesome. Pagans unite and take back X-mas from the heathens


This, in and of itself, probably isn't enough to land him in a cell. If he refused a license, was taken to court and ordered to comply, and still refused, he could end up in jail for contempt of court, but I think that's about it.

/IANAL
 
2013-12-24 03:05:59 PM

Muta: Once you allow same sex couples to marry you are opening the door other ungodly unions like polygamy.


nope.
 
2013-12-24 03:06:35 PM

0x1a4: Why don't we simply get the government out of all marriages altogether?  Then it wouldn't matter who did what.  Straight, Gay, Poly.. if everyone in the marriage says everyone in the group is married, they are.  It's not really anyone else's business anyhow.


Every couple that wants to get any of the 1000+ benefits that go along with marriage today would have to hire a lawyer to work out every single one of those things. That would likely cost a ton of money. In comparison, a marriage license is, what, $100 maybe?
 
2013-12-24 03:06:58 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?


Not legal. Utah's AG says that county clerks refusing to issue licenses could face contempt of court charges:  https://twitter.com/BenWinslow/status/415569317531369472
 
2013-12-24 03:07:44 PM

mikeray: I don't really approve of it


Why do you even care? How does it effect you in any way?
 
2013-12-24 03:09:04 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.


The concern is not related to any effect on opposite-sex marriage. Rather, it is related to the general effects upon society, particularly upon what are now the strong pillars of society. In that regard, same-sex marriage will demonstrably result in serious, long-lasting harm. Specifically, when same-sex couples begin to legally marry, and their legal marriages cause no demonstrable harm to anyone, the churches -- many of which are pillars within the communities in which they exist -- will be exposed as mean-spirited liars. As a result, those religious institutions will suffer a substantial loss in credibility. No one can deny that damaged credibility constitutes real harm.
 
2013-12-24 03:09:36 PM

Muta: Once you allow same sex couples to marry you are opening the door other ungodly unions like polygamy.


Which would bother Mormons, how, exactly?
 
2013-12-24 03:10:17 PM

Muta: Once you allow same sex couples to marry you are opening the door other ungodly unions like polygamy and the Teamsters.


/ungodly workers of the world UNITE!
 
2013-12-24 03:10:59 PM

Dimensio: No one can deny that damaged credibility constitutes real harm.


Fark 'em. They cause more harm than good anyway.
 
2013-12-24 03:11:14 PM

Dimensio: Sin_City_Superhero: the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.

The concern is not related to any effect on opposite-sex marriage. Rather, it is related to the general effects upon society, particularly upon what are now the strong pillars of society. In that regard, same-sex marriage will demonstrably result in serious, long-lasting harm. Specifically, when same-sex couples begin to legally marry, and their legal marriages cause no demonstrable harm to anyone, the churches -- many of which are pillars within the communities in which they exist -- will be exposed as mean-spirited liars. As a result, those religious institutions will suffer a substantial loss in credibility. No one can deny that damaged credibility constitutes real harm.


ken_ashford.typepad.com
 
2013-12-24 03:24:24 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: In Utah County, one of the most conservative in the state, County Clerk Brian Thompson made a conscious decision to defy the judge's ruling and not grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples. He said he wants to see if the appeals court grants the stay first.

Is that legal? Can this guy just defy a judge's order and face no consequences? If he denied a gay couple their marriage license, but issues one for a opposite-sex couple, could the gay couple sue the county?


There's already a lawsuit pending. He's betting that said lawsuit won't be decided before the 10th Circuit imposes a stay (which they may or may not do, and issuing a stay doesn't necessarily indicate they will side against same-sex marriage), in which case the lawsuit to compel him to issue a license will become moot. And he's probably right that the stay issue will be decided first. The couple is also making sec. 1983 claims (civil damages for violations of constitutional rights), but 1983 claims are difficult to make out and will probably fail.
 
2013-12-24 03:25:25 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.


That's not true.

Since the legalisation of same-sex marriage in several countries, there's be a slight  increasein the rate of opposite-sex marriages.
 
2013-12-24 03:29:52 PM
Gee it couldn't have happened to a better state either.


/Lives near the Utah border in CO, I can hear their wails of agony from here.
 
2013-12-24 03:31:00 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: the state failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way

They failed to show that allowing same-sex marriages would affect opposite-sex marriages in any way because allowing same-sex marriages has absolutely no affect on opposite-sex marriages. None whatsoever.


I think that's debatable.  It certainly would reduce the pool of available closeted gays for the GOP men to fish from and without that sort of relief, their opposite-sex marriages may suffer and collapse.
 
2013-12-24 03:33:40 PM
Mormons sent $20M to the State of California to back Prop 8. One could almost say this ruling in Utah is God sending them a message. Or karma, based on your beliefs.
 
2013-12-24 03:34:33 PM
I don't want to know what they'll do when they reach the "anger" phase.
 
2013-12-24 03:34:37 PM

PanicMan: You'll get over it.


Not before going through the stages of anger, bargaining, and depression.
 
2013-12-24 03:37:33 PM

Ed Grubermann: Dimensio: No one can deny that damaged credibility constitutes real harm.

Fark 'em. They cause more harm than good anyway.


You may mock them here, but you must acknowledge that having such a strong institution exposed as having been completely and totally dishonest is so potentially damaging that the law should protect them from such exposure, allowing their dishonesty to go unexposed.
 
2013-12-24 03:45:44 PM
The judge who made this ruling attended the University of Utah, was active duty in Desert Storm, and both of Utah's conservative senators, Orin Hatch and Mike Lee, backed him. Mike Lee, ranked the 7th most conservative senator by the National Journal, said he would make "an outstanding judge."

At a certain point, even the most insulated conservatives inside the bubble have to accept that A) this was not some hippie activist judge, and B) that it simply is NOT constitutional to deny gays the right to marry. It is over.
 
2013-12-24 03:47:31 PM

Donald_McRonald: PanicMan: You'll get over it.

Not before going through the stages of anger, bargaining, and depression.


Anger will be a surge in their numbers during the midterms, bargaining will be the next two years after that, and depression will kick in when Hillary is inaugurated.
 
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