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(RealClear)   Edward Snowden says his "mission is accomplished" and that he has "already won." Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home country and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory   (realclear.com) divider line 55
    More: Dumbass, Russia, Barton Gellman, missions  
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1099 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2013 at 10:11 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-12-24 08:25:09 AM
17 votes:
Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?
2013-12-24 09:39:27 AM
9 votes:
Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.
2013-12-24 08:41:11 AM
8 votes:
He was paid taxpayer money to be a spy.

As for the terrorist label, the only thing he's blown up is the NSA's credibility.
2013-12-24 10:18:07 AM
6 votes:
"I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made." - Franklin D Roosevelt

Considering he's considered enemy #1 by the top threats to Constitutional rights and international personal privacy, I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself.
2013-12-24 09:41:08 AM
6 votes:

czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.


Not to mention AT&T and Verizon being let off the hook for billions of counts of illegal wiretapping.

Or Qwest being destroyed because they wouldn't play ball with the NSA.  That was something to be outraged about.  Nobody cares.
2013-12-24 10:34:30 AM
5 votes:
Gee, I am having a difficult time coming up with the proper word.
The NSA was IS NOW all the way out  of control and bullying legal corporations to join them in ILLEGAL activity that they were sworn to not do in the first farking place.
Now they double down on the fascist derp and defy popular opinion, and THE LAW.

Remember that silly thing, THE LAW?
All you sycophants are all foaming at the mouth to enforce zero tolerance prison for victimless "crimes" and destroy lives, families, and OMG, The Children for your crappy "LAW".
But The LAW preventing NSA from alienating the ENTIRE PLANET against the USA, you pass on that one?
2013-12-24 10:33:18 AM
5 votes:
Just because Snowden is guilty doesn't mean the NSA is innocent.
2013-12-24 10:39:19 AM
4 votes:

Shadowknight: Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.


Not sure.

This country is founded on the ideal that sometimes your government is bad and needs to be spanked, and promising them that you'll work in their best interests and then being told to run the North American KGB is your government betraying your trust in them more than anything else.

Part of the attack of the Government on the people is to shift the core ideals of our society from Patriotism as loyalty to your country as a people to Patriotism as loyalty to your country as the State.  One of the core founding ideals was that the government acts as a public servant:  it is commissioned by the people, of the people, for the people.  What we now call "leaders" used to be what was called "public servants".

It might sound extreme, but the fact of the matter is we should have started ejecting people from office the moment they tried to tell us they had some sort of authority over us.  The government has no authority over me; the government executes the authority of the whole of our society against me.  It is the tool of the people, and those in power are there to serve our will.  The moment they started claiming to be there to "lead", we should have ripped them from their chairs and firmly planted someone else to do their job.
2013-12-24 10:24:04 AM
4 votes:
Snowden set out to expose the vast, unseen, and unsupervised scope of the NSA and other US agencies spying operations. He's done that. Single handed he changed the discussion in this country on how we are 'protecting' ourselves, and the unseen cost of that protection. Seems like mission accomplished to me.
2013-12-24 10:20:24 AM
4 votes:

Everfearful: "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made." - Franklin D Roosevelt

Considering he's considered enemy #1 by the top threats to Constitutional rights and international personal privacy, I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself.


His only ally is a country led by a KGB agent who helped kill millions of people, if that's my only friend then its time to make new friends.
2013-12-24 10:16:53 AM
4 votes:

steamingpile: JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?
No its for reality, sorry he is living in a prison essentially and can't leave until another place will grant him basically an open ended stay with no fear of deportation.


I don't think he thought his cunning plan all the way through, but I'm still getting a kick out of what he did to the NSA.

Kind of like Julian Assange. He might be an egomaniac dumbass in a lot of ways, but boy, did he stir up a lot of people who'd like to keep their secrets secret.
2013-12-24 08:55:55 AM
4 votes:
I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.
2013-12-24 10:34:07 AM
3 votes:
only an asshole would call him a traitor.
2013-12-24 10:33:21 AM
3 votes:
If Snowden was to come back to the USA, would he be tried by the secret court, military court or a jury trial?

/If it was jury trial, I already know which way I would vote.
2013-12-24 10:25:52 AM
3 votes:

Shadowknight: alaric3: Russian girls.

[realrussianmatch.com image 510x344] 

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site.  Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong.  Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country.  But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause.  He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.  

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law...  I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.


He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.
2013-12-24 10:21:40 AM
3 votes:
Edward Snowden says his "mission is accomplished" and that he has "already won." Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home country lying, criminal fascists and a captive media that is failing to demonize this AMERICAN HERO and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory


just a little twirk here and a twirk there
2013-12-24 10:19:53 AM
3 votes:

alaric3: Russian girls.


realrussianmatch.com 

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site.  Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong.  Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country.  But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause.  He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.  

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law...  I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.
2013-12-24 02:35:29 PM
2 votes:
This self-righteous traitor needs to be rendered by the CIA. He's nothing but an AW with delusions of grandeur, and he belongs in prison.
2013-12-24 02:09:01 PM
2 votes:

Gunny Highway: I thought this article was interesting and possibly relevant:
 'Spy Kids' by Charles Stross


Tried to link that for you, but my link also got the boot. (Odd, the site didn't present a paywall to me, but then, I have NoScript turned on.)

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/28/spy_kids_nsa_surveil l ance_next_generation

Stross' "Spy Kids" article argues the issue isn't political, it's sociological, and he raises a serious question: what does it mean to be a member of any organization - governmental or corporate - today, as compared to 50 years ago when these organizations were still taking shape?

As long as everyone's jumping in on subby today, I'll give subby a cheery 9/10 for the trollarity, and link to the Washington Post Interview with Snowden. Long-form journalism isn't dead yet, and neither is this story.

If it wasn't Snowden, it would have been somebody else. It's not about Snowden-this, or Bush-that, or Obama-theotherthing. It's about what kind of society we're going to live in. Whatever you think of the leaks, that choice is upon us. Trading essential liberty in exchange for security isn't repugnant because it's unamerican; it's unamerican because it's repugnant. I, for one, am willing to accept one or two additional billion-dollar catastrophes per decade as preferable to the alternative of living the rest of my life in a trillion-dollar-a-year panopticon.
2013-12-24 12:43:09 PM
2 votes:
If he had stopped at "The NSA is spying on US citizens", I could certainly see the argument of him doing it for his country.  Once he started releasing specifics on spying on foreign nations, fark him.
2013-12-24 11:29:07 AM
2 votes:

XveryYpettyZ: I have no problem with Snowden spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

But I also think he is to some degree a hero.

The rub with being a martyr is the martyrdom bit.  It shouldn't be costless to betray the secrets of your country.  The only way to ensure that people are doing it for good reasons is to make sure they're ground up by the machinery afterward.


This is where I disagree. I have such a sense of revulsion at the idea of "state secrets" despite the recognition that SOME are necessary and that we will never be rid of them, that I feel like the state is entitled only to the ones that don't get expose. The list of state secrets (if there could be one) that are unexposed should take up less than a single page of paper. You call what he did "betraying the secrets of his country." I find that a government who keeps secrets from its own people and which would punish people for telling the truth has hands so dirty already that they do not get to cry "betrayal."

I hope he gets away with it forever and finds some way to have a happy-ever-after.
2013-12-24 11:15:30 AM
2 votes:

Shadowknight: That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong. Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.


There is no patriotism in "my country right or wrong".  That is blind nationalism.  A true patriot believes their country should do right, even if they have to be shamed and "betrayed" into doing it.  Snowden obviously wasn't afraid of suffering personally to do this, but after what happened to Chelsea Manning (indefinite imprisonment, extended torture and every attempt by the gov't to avoid a fair trial) I don't blame him for fleeing.

Sadly, at this point, nothing could force the USA to "do right" geopolitically.  They will continue to spy, lie, bribe, coerce, murder and war to get what they want, just like most other countries would do if they had access to that tremendous amount of power.
2013-12-24 11:01:46 AM
2 votes:
Anybody remember the Church Committee?  Yeah, antediluvian:  Millions of telegrams seined, the executives of Western Union? `gee, we didn't know' (ala Google, et al).
Only the technology and means of targeting have changed:   http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/book3/pdf/churchb3_1 0 _nsa.pdf

The National Security State can be put on a diet.  Private Data Brokers can drill down with a far greater range of `granularity' - the gov. can just plug their feeding tube into that reservoir if it really wants YOU.  Yes, these are unregulated job creators who will be hiring up those laid-off NSA quants and they'll be looking to further dry gulch us into some correlative inevitability or other owing to vastly improved `slicing and dicing' of the `demographic' - the targeting as precise (even if absolutely wrong) as having a tomahawk jabbed up one's tailpipe.

Senate Commerce Committee held a hearing on just that last week:   http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/229200

Chairman Rockefeller got a bit testy:

"Since before 9/11 I've been on the Intelligence Committee and. every day, I wake up to seven newspapers with nothing but NSA headlines.  And, I'm here to tell you, as one of the authors of FISA, the Patriot Act and all the rest of it, that the NSA is so secure in its protection of privacy as compared to this group that we are talking to, these data brokers, it's not even close.  This affects, as was pointed out, anybody, everybody.  Who knows?  NSA knows,  They are only likely to interact at a .000001 percent of people that they conclude need further observation.  This is everybody, anybody, but more than that divided into race, economic activities, education, and there's something -  I can't prove it is wrong - but there's something lethal about it..."

/Snowden will warrant a footnote
2013-12-24 10:47:47 AM
2 votes:
Wow, people are actually defending the NSA after more or less admitting to exceeding their mandate?


//People are dumb
2013-12-24 10:38:54 AM
2 votes:

Weatherkiss: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.


The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.
2013-12-24 10:35:05 AM
2 votes:
Know how this country lost all sense of morality and hope? By being full of people who think it's only worth doing something if it benefits themselves most of all. Success isn't always about you, subby.
2013-12-24 10:31:55 AM
2 votes:
Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.
2013-12-24 10:25:03 AM
2 votes:
Well, Snowden is a hero to most Farkers.

And who wouldn't want a bunch of cheetos stained sociopath basement dwellers as their number one fans?
2013-12-24 10:24:20 AM
2 votes:
Mission accomplished? Do you mean to tell me that all of this spy activity has come to a screeching halt because the valiant Snowden has exposed it?

Puh-leeeze.
2013-12-24 10:21:08 AM
2 votes:
Pretty sure that the "exposing NSA secrets" was the part he considered a victory, subbie.
2013-12-24 10:18:48 AM
2 votes:
Sorry, but I'm going to have to with Subby on this one- what did he win?  Everyone knows about the NSA spying now?  So, what?  Obama will stand up and  say "That's terrible.  Don't worry people, I'm on this." (actually, he already did), and nothing will change.

So, what was won?

(and, by the way, while saving democracy and all that, he also released stuff that had no business being released except to embarrass the U.S. to no real end - so fark him for that part)
2013-12-24 10:15:54 AM
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

Not to mention AT&T and Verizon being let off the hook for billions of counts of illegal wiretapping.

Or Qwest being destroyed because they wouldn't play ball with the NSA.  That was something to be outraged about.  Nobody cares.


What really bugs me are all the nations biatching about it when their own nations are either spying on them as well or allowing the NSA access so they share data with them.
2013-12-24 10:13:30 AM
2 votes:

JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?


No its for reality, sorry he is living in a prison essentially and can't leave until another place will grant him basically an open ended stay with no fear of deportation.
2013-12-25 10:49:40 AM
1 votes:
Guess how we can tell Subby is a democrat.

If Snowden had put this info out during a Republican term
1) The media would have released more than 1% of it
2) He would be on the DNC presidential ticket

Snowden's mistake was coming forward during a democrat term.
2013-12-24 10:02:53 PM
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: He was paid taxpayer money to be a spy.

As for the terrorist label, the only thing he's blown up is the NSA's credibility.


Also the ability of US security companies' viability on a global stage.  But yeah, let's all focus on how much GOOD he did.  No one wants to hear the bad shiat.
2013-12-24 03:21:05 PM
1 votes:
2013-12-24 02:30:27 PM
1 votes:

starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.


Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?
2013-12-24 01:35:32 PM
1 votes:
SUBBY:
static.fjcdn.com
2013-12-24 10:52:06 AM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government.


I'm willing to bet that isn't how it plays out.

Government doesn't reform or behave when caught with its hand in the cookie jar. It doubles down on the secrecy and abuse because upping the ante and not-getting-caught is always the better policy.
Its why we find ourselves at such an extreme now, and there won't be a change until someone in leadership takes a literal torch to the place.

Whatever Snowden unveils you can rest assured that the truth is far worse and the NSA's top priority is to eliminate as much transparency as possible.

/But hey, at least one branch of government still listens to us.
2013-12-24 10:50:51 AM
1 votes:
Give it arrest already.
2013-12-24 10:48:15 AM
1 votes:
Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.
2013-12-24 10:46:32 AM
1 votes:
How is this Snowden/NSA thing even a story?

I personally assumed the rapid digitizing of our lives via the internet, cell phones, auto black boxes, IPASS units, credit card records, speed cameras, and the rest, allowed spying on all of us and our worldwide friends.

All you who were surprised when Snowden shot off his mouth just sound naive.
2013-12-24 10:44:03 AM
1 votes:

Weatherkiss: I'm also hoping. But at the same time I'm under the impression that despite all the internet rage and media talking points (on both sides of the political spectrum), noone cares enough to do anything about it.


Seems to be the case.  Hard to predict when people snap.  The intelligence community is firmly intrenched and has a lot of power of persuasion.  I am not sure how the citizenry goes about effecting such a change.  This one may take time to figure out and the more people who pull back the curtain the better.  I understand why people love/hate Snowden.  What I can not understand is people who try to act like he is insignificant.
2013-12-24 10:35:23 AM
1 votes:
images.dailykos.com

/can't believe I'm the first.
2013-12-24 10:35:19 AM
1 votes:

Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?


I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.
2013-12-24 10:33:13 AM
1 votes:

JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?


Done in one.
2013-12-24 10:30:23 AM
1 votes:

snocone: He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.


Again, that's why I am conflicted.  He did a disservice, at least in the short term, to American intelligence services and credibility.  But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government.  I've always been a proponent of airing dirty laundry where all can see when it comes to government, because while embarrassing now it lets us actually occupy the high ground we like to claim all the time.
2013-12-24 10:30:01 AM
1 votes:
He just wants to be famous.
2013-12-24 10:30:00 AM
1 votes:
I thought this article was interesting and possibly relevant:
 'Spy Kids' by Charles Stross
2013-12-24 10:24:24 AM
1 votes:
EABOD, subtard.
2013-12-24 10:22:45 AM
1 votes:
1. Invaded Russia
2. Stayed there longer than Napoleon and Hitler combined
2013-12-24 10:16:02 AM
1 votes:
You know... This reminds me of that scene from airplane.

www.imfdb.org

Kramer : Ted that was probably the worst landing in the history of this airport, but some of us here, particularly me would like to buy you a drink and shake your hand.
2013-12-24 10:14:27 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.


It wasn't, but offering up to the Chinese the various points the US uses to spy on them must be.
2013-12-24 09:37:37 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.


I had not heard that revealing phone hacking was patriotic.  Look at the News of the World phone hacking scandal.  No one even remembers who ratted them out.
2013-12-24 09:03:28 AM
1 votes:
Russian girls.
 
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