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(RealClear)   Edward Snowden says his "mission is accomplished" and that he has "already won." Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home country and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory   ( realclear.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Russia, Barton Gellman, missions  
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1140 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2013 at 10:11 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-24 12:07:32 PM  

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says


Duhh, hey, slow students, the BESTEST way to keep tabs on your enemies is to fund them.
 
2013-12-24 12:08:41 PM  
Gunny Highway:  The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.


I don't hold out hope for anything changing.  You forget that the majority of Americans are ignorant morons who don't have the capabilities to understand what really happens behind the scenes of their government.  Even if spoon fed they would rather obsess about Duck Dynasty or the Kardashians.  Thinking is too much effort.

There would only be outrage if the EBT system went down again or the Superbowl got cancelled.
 
2013-12-24 12:13:45 PM  
And, lest we forget, Daddy sez, "The bestest enemies are the ones you create for yourself."
 
2013-12-24 12:14:15 PM  

Headso: Epic Fap Session: Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.

you personally met the guy?


Gunny Highway: Epic Fap Session: Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.

And?


I've only seen what the rest of us have seen. Then I formed an opinion. Sorry it's different from yours. There are many many people that I haven't met about whom I've been able to form an opinion.
 
2013-12-24 12:25:01 PM  
How's that stripper girlfriend lookin now. I don't know what that means.
 
2013-12-24 12:43:09 PM  
If he had stopped at "The NSA is spying on US citizens", I could certainly see the argument of him doing it for his country.  Once he started releasing specifics on spying on foreign nations, fark him.
 
2013-12-24 12:53:58 PM  

fickenchucker: How is this Snowden/NSA thing even a story?

I personally assumed the rapid digitizing of our lives via the internet, cell phones, auto black boxes, IPASS units, credit card records, speed cameras, and the rest, allowed spying on all of us and our worldwide friends.

All you who were surprised when Snowden shot off his mouth just sound naive.


this. so this.

Anyone with half a brain knew all this was occurring. All those foreign politicians who are shocked just shocked that the nsa was spying on them should be mad at their security people for allowing it. Most of all Americans should be mad that a loose cannon like Snowden was given that kind of access in the first place.
 
2013-12-24 01:03:32 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: He gave Redditors and Dudebros across the country epic levels of smug for, yet again, being above the sheeple. What greater victory could one ask for?


To grant us the happy ending of catharsis and go down in a blaze of glory like a Greek tragedy?
 
2013-12-24 01:23:35 PM  

alaric3: Russian girls.


Maybe that was his plan all along.
 
2013-12-24 01:35:32 PM  
SUBBY:
static.fjcdn.com
 
2013-12-24 01:40:26 PM  

Shadowknight: alaric3: Russian girls.

[realrussianmatch.com image 510x344] 

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site.  Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong.   Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country.  But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause.  He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.  

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law...  I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.



What oath to his country?, he was a employee of a private contractor

Enlisted and elected people take an oath to the people, to uphold the constitution

when do the court martials / impeachments start for those that took that oath and looked the other way?
 
2013-12-24 01:57:30 PM  
I don't know, but a Snowden mask just doesn't have the weight that a Guy Fawkes mask has.
Gotta work on this problem.
 
2013-12-24 01:58:25 PM  
If we strike him down now, he shall become more powerful than we could possibly imagine.
 
2013-12-24 02:02:25 PM  

snocone: I don't know, but a Snowden mask just doesn't have the weight that a Guy Fawkes mask has.
Gotta work on this problem.


Guy Fawkes Day doesn't honor Guy Fawkes, it honors the fact that England narrowly averted a terrorist attack. It's like thinking September 11th honors Osama Bin Laden.

The V from the "V for Vendetta" film is nothing like the V from the original graphic novel. Sure, he wasn't a bad guy, but he definitely wasn't a good guy.
 
2013-12-24 02:02:50 PM  

bigdog1960: How's that stripper girlfriend lookin now. I don't know what that means.


Well, mine is still lookin' pretty good.
But, she is starting to wool together money for a face lift.
While that presents opportunities, having that going for you may not be nice.
 
2013-12-24 02:04:25 PM  
Congratulations on your victory King Pyrrhus.
 
2013-12-24 02:06:46 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: snocone: I don't know, but a Snowden mask just doesn't have the weight that a Guy Fawkes mask has.
Gotta work on this problem.

Guy Fawkes Day doesn't honor Guy Fawkes, it honors the fact that England narrowly averted a terrorist attack. It's like thinking September 11th honors Osama Bin Laden.

The V from the "V for Vendetta" film is nothing like the V from the original graphic novel. Sure, he wasn't a bad guy, but he definitely wasn't a good guy.


I like the colonist's version better.

One person's terrorism is another's fool me once or charm the third.
 
2013-12-24 02:09:01 PM  

Gunny Highway: I thought this article was interesting and possibly relevant:
 'Spy Kids' by Charles Stross


Tried to link that for you, but my link also got the boot. (Odd, the site didn't present a paywall to me, but then, I have NoScript turned on.)

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/28/spy_kids_nsa_surveil l ance_next_generation

Stross' "Spy Kids" article argues the issue isn't political, it's sociological, and he raises a serious question: what does it mean to be a member of any organization - governmental or corporate - today, as compared to 50 years ago when these organizations were still taking shape?

As long as everyone's jumping in on subby today, I'll give subby a cheery 9/10 for the trollarity, and link to the Washington Post Interview with Snowden. Long-form journalism isn't dead yet, and neither is this story.

If it wasn't Snowden, it would have been somebody else. It's not about Snowden-this, or Bush-that, or Obama-theotherthing. It's about what kind of society we're going to live in. Whatever you think of the leaks, that choice is upon us. Trading essential liberty in exchange for security isn't repugnant because it's unamerican; it's unamerican because it's repugnant. I, for one, am willing to accept one or two additional billion-dollar catastrophes per decade as preferable to the alternative of living the rest of my life in a trillion-dollar-a-year panopticon.
 
2013-12-24 02:10:57 PM  
I do believe they have celebrating OBL on 9/11 for a decade or so.
And now, what was that date?
That is gonna play really big in Islamabad, not so much in Peoria.
 
2013-12-24 02:14:14 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: starsrift: I can't imagine it's hard for a computer security expert with almost a Master's degree would find it hard to get a job in Moscow. Their tech industry is booming up right now.

Who would hire him, though?  I mean, would you trust him with your computer systems?


Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.
 
2013-12-24 02:15:21 PM  
Not all heroes get the girl; not all heroes are rewarded.

Most heroes earn only death for their deeds.
 
2013-12-24 02:16:55 PM  
Kindly show your work on solving the problem:
The technology does exist, period.
Humans will use that technology, period
If you could decide who that will be, pick one.

/the only win is not to play
 
2013-12-24 02:25:47 PM  
There are things that will inevitably lead to corruption.
Religious dogma.
Corporate structure.
Nationalism.
Piles of money.
Political office, party, affiliation, funding, hell, anything to do with politics.
MegaMetaData.
Land, less so Sea.
Great greasy gobs of gopher guts, even.

/people, go figure
 
2013-12-24 02:30:27 PM  

starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.


Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?
 
2013-12-24 02:32:18 PM  
I'll try Subby logic on for size: because Billy Mitchell got court-martialed, air attacks on ships are impossible.  Therefore, the Pearl Harbor incident of 1941 never happened.
 
2013-12-24 02:35:29 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.

Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?


If he starts a team, they will come.
 
2013-12-24 02:35:29 PM  
This self-righteous traitor needs to be rendered by the CIA. He's nothing but an AW with delusions of grandeur, and he belongs in prison.
 
2013-12-24 02:36:08 PM  

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says


I prefer intellectual honesty to blind hero-worship. You go right ahead and believe the guy whose only verifiable statements are lies and "helped the American public" by revealing foreign spying ops.
 
2013-12-24 02:37:49 PM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: I'll try Subby logic on for size: because Billy Mitchell got court-martialed, air attacks on ships are impossible.  Therefore, the Pearl Harbor incident of 1941 never happened.


Billy Mitchell argued LAND-BASED bombers would sink ships. No one doubted naval aviation could. After all, we built and operated CVs before Pearl Harbor.
 
2013-12-24 02:42:22 PM  

vygramul: cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says

I prefer intellectual honesty to blind hero-worship. You go right ahead and believe the guy whose only verifiable statements are lies and "helped the American public" by revealing foreign spying ops.


Hello, by now both sides are lying or at least well misrepresented by the media.
This is the curtain show to misdirect and defuse sheep.
Stay on target.
The above the law fascist sociopaths running this operation are still unnamed.
THEY are who you are looking for, not these droids.
 
2013-12-24 02:50:08 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Well, Snowden is a hero to most Farkers.

And who wouldn't want a bunch of cheetos stained sociopath basement dwellers as their number one fans?


The sociopaths are not the ones that believe in the 4th amendment.
 
2013-12-24 03:09:56 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Sorry, but I'm going to have to with Subby on this one- what did he win?  Everyone knows about the NSA spying now?  So, what?  Obama will stand up and  say "That's terrible.  Don't worry people, I'm on this." (actually, he already did), and nothing will change.

So, what was won?

(and, by the way, while saving democracy and all that, he also released stuff that had no business being released except to embarrass the U.S. to no real end - so fark him for that part)


"Because, remember, I didn't want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself."

FTFA. You can't choose, as a society, what you want unless you actually have a choice. That's what he set out to do, and that's what he did. Whether you applaud it or not, he still pulled it off.

/I personally applaud it wholeheartedly, but that's just my .02.
 
2013-12-24 03:09:56 PM  

snocone: vygramul: cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says

I prefer intellectual honesty to blind hero-worship. You go right ahead and believe the guy whose only verifiable statements are lies and "helped the American public" by revealing foreign spying ops.

Hello, by now both sides are lying or at least well misrepresented by the media.
This is the curtain show to misdirect and defuse sheep.
Stay on target.
The above the law fascist sociopaths running this operation are still unnamed.
THEY are who you are looking for, not these droids.


I don't object to holding the NSA responsible. Just because General Arnold served with distinction and won several battles doesn't mean I'm putting him on a pedestal, either even if the Brits WERE the bad guys.
 
2013-12-24 03:13:49 PM  
GED. Booz Allen hires him and as a contractor is given access to this level of information.
That is the scandal. Government contractors should be investigated. With his resume I would not have hired him as a student employee with any access to confidential information.
 
2013-12-24 03:21:05 PM  
 
2013-12-24 03:23:18 PM  

volodya: GED. Booz Allen hires him and as a contractor is given access to this level of information.
That is the scandal. Government contractors should be investigated. With his resume I would not have hired him as a student employee with any access to confidential information.


In the dark ages, the Church had scribes copy documents that were used to communicate secrets. The trick was the scribes couldn't read, thus the secrets were all secured.

GED isn't a stretch.
 
2013-12-24 04:16:56 PM  

NeoCortex42: If he had stopped at "The NSA is spying on US citizens", I could certainly see the argument of him doing it for his country.  Once he started releasing specifics on spying on foreign nations, fark him.


Oh, so that's where you draw the line... interesting.... I suppose. Sort of. But not much.

Edward Snowden is a hero in the truest sense of the word. He stood up for what is right, knowing full well that it would make him the target of the most powerful military dictatorship on earth. He has put his personal safety, and life, on the line for the very document that Americans hold holier than the bible.
 
2013-12-24 04:46:47 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?


has to be
 
2013-12-24 07:21:06 PM  

czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.


Uh, I was outraged at the NSA about 20 years ago, so can I be outraged at Snowden now?

Please don't make your lack of interest in world and domestic affairs a restraint on my behavior.
 
2013-12-24 07:34:36 PM  

volodya: GED. Booz Allen hires him and as a contractor is given access to this level of information.
That is the scandal. Government contractors should be investigated. With his resume I would not have hired him as a student employee with any access to confidential information.


Booze didn't conduct the background check, and we really don't know what he claimed on his resume.
 
2013-12-24 07:37:47 PM  

Gyrfalcon: czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

Uh, I was outraged at the NSA about 20 years ago, so can I be outraged at Snowden now?

Please don't make your lack of interest in world and domestic affairs a restraint on my behavior.


Um... sorry for the question, but how the eff did you manage to take czetie's post quite so scathingly on a personal level?
 
2013-12-24 10:02:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: He was paid taxpayer money to be a spy.

As for the terrorist label, the only thing he's blown up is the NSA's credibility.


Also the ability of US security companies' viability on a global stage.  But yeah, let's all focus on how much GOOD he did.  No one wants to hear the bad shiat.
 
2013-12-25 03:15:52 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.

Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?


Yeah, I'm sure his actions can be reduced to that sort of undetailed analysis by everyone since there was no international coverage of the incident, or awards given to him. Nobody will ever employ him ever again.
 
2013-12-25 10:49:40 AM  
Guess how we can tell Subby is a democrat.

If Snowden had put this info out during a Republican term
1) The media would have released more than 1% of it
2) He would be on the DNC presidential ticket

Snowden's mistake was coming forward during a democrat term.
 
2013-12-25 11:20:23 AM  

sithon: fickenchucker: How is this Snowden/NSA thing even a story?

I personally assumed the rapid digitizing of our lives via the internet, cell phones, auto black boxes, IPASS units, credit card records, speed cameras, and the rest, allowed spying on all of us and our worldwide friends.

All you who were surprised when Snowden shot off his mouth just sound naive.

this. so this.

Anyone with half a brain knew all this was occurring. All those foreign politicians who are shocked just shocked that the nsa was spying on them should be mad at their security people for allowing it. Most of all Americans should be mad that a loose cannon like Snowden was given that kind of access in the first place.


No one with "half a brain" was shocked.  If they stated such, it was for the even more naive public and media.  Give me a break people.  The governments, any and all governments, will use any and all information available to them.  If you are really, really upset by this, then stop using Google, Yahoo, Mastercard, Paypal, VISA, Verizon, AT&T, Amazon, etc. etc. etc.  Take yourself out of the electronic data stream.  Because data, especially transactional data that the government has a means to obtain, will be obtained.  It's inevitable.  Legal or not, it will be done.  Get over it. Israel, Russia, Germany, USA, France, UK are all equal offenders of this practice.

Snowden's revelations are beyond naive.  And change absolutely nothing.
 
2013-12-25 11:41:21 AM  
Stop Think
How does your business work?
Does the boss handle the actual day to day widgets the company buys/sells/adds value/collects/whatever?
Absolutely not!
The lowest of the low paid clerk types handle this super secret, super sensitive data.

Word for the wise: watch your watchers!

/lowest common denominator is bad business
 
2013-12-25 12:09:45 PM  

starsrift: Yeah, I'm sure his actions can be reduced to that sort of undetailed analysis by everyone since there was no international coverage of the incident, or awards given to him. Nobody will ever employ him ever again.


Never said no one would employ him again.  But it's going to SEVERELY limit his options.  Anyone who hopes to get a government contract or security clearance will not employ him.   And a lot of businesses will be hesitent (at best) to employ someone with such a reputation for fear of scaring customers.
 
2013-12-25 06:16:21 PM  

Shadowknight: snocone: He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.

Again, that's why I am conflicted.  He did a disservice, at least in the short term, to American intelligence services and credibility.  But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government.  I've always been a proponent of airing dirty laundry where all can see when it comes to government, because while embarrassing now it lets us actually occupy the high ground we like to claim all the time.


Dirty or not, we paid for the laundry.
The laundry has our name embroidered on it.
It will continue to be laundered in our name.
Hang it out there.
 
2013-12-25 09:24:36 PM  
Hey, NSA how about proving yourself useful with all that MegaMassiveDataDUMP and just tell us who hacked Target?

Asking too much?
Sorry to trouble you.
 
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