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(RealClear)   Edward Snowden says his "mission is accomplished" and that he has "already won." Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home country and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory   (realclear.com) divider line 149
    More: Dumbass, Russia, Barton Gellman, missions  
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1102 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2013 at 10:11 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



149 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-24 08:25:09 AM
Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?
 
2013-12-24 08:41:11 AM
He was paid taxpayer money to be a spy.

As for the terrorist label, the only thing he's blown up is the NSA's credibility.
 
2013-12-24 08:55:55 AM
I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.
 
2013-12-24 09:03:28 AM
Russian girls.
 
2013-12-24 09:37:37 AM

vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.


I had not heard that revealing phone hacking was patriotic.  Look at the News of the World phone hacking scandal.  No one even remembers who ratted them out.
 
2013-12-24 09:39:27 AM
Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.
 
2013-12-24 09:41:08 AM

czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.


Not to mention AT&T and Verizon being let off the hook for billions of counts of illegal wiretapping.

Or Qwest being destroyed because they wouldn't play ball with the NSA.  That was something to be outraged about.  Nobody cares.
 
2013-12-24 10:13:30 AM

JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?


No its for reality, sorry he is living in a prison essentially and can't leave until another place will grant him basically an open ended stay with no fear of deportation.
 
2013-12-24 10:14:27 AM

vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.


It wasn't, but offering up to the Chinese the various points the US uses to spy on them must be.
 
2013-12-24 10:14:45 AM
It is a great article, with provocative political thoughts.
 
2013-12-24 10:15:54 AM

Marcus Aurelius: czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

Not to mention AT&T and Verizon being let off the hook for billions of counts of illegal wiretapping.

Or Qwest being destroyed because they wouldn't play ball with the NSA.  That was something to be outraged about.  Nobody cares.


What really bugs me are all the nations biatching about it when their own nations are either spying on them as well or allowing the NSA access so they share data with them.
 
2013-12-24 10:16:02 AM
You know... This reminds me of that scene from airplane.

www.imfdb.org

Kramer : Ted that was probably the worst landing in the history of this airport, but some of us here, particularly me would like to buy you a drink and shake your hand.
 
2013-12-24 10:16:53 AM

steamingpile: JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?
No its for reality, sorry he is living in a prison essentially and can't leave until another place will grant him basically an open ended stay with no fear of deportation.


I don't think he thought his cunning plan all the way through, but I'm still getting a kick out of what he did to the NSA.

Kind of like Julian Assange. He might be an egomaniac dumbass in a lot of ways, but boy, did he stir up a lot of people who'd like to keep their secrets secret.
 
2013-12-24 10:17:24 AM
 Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home country and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory.

Compared to his life before... it might be.
 
2013-12-24 10:18:07 AM
"I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made." - Franklin D Roosevelt

Considering he's considered enemy #1 by the top threats to Constitutional rights and international personal privacy, I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself.
 
2013-12-24 10:18:48 AM
Sorry, but I'm going to have to with Subby on this one- what did he win?  Everyone knows about the NSA spying now?  So, what?  Obama will stand up and  say "That's terrible.  Don't worry people, I'm on this." (actually, he already did), and nothing will change.

So, what was won?

(and, by the way, while saving democracy and all that, he also released stuff that had no business being released except to embarrass the U.S. to no real end - so fark him for that part)
 
2013-12-24 10:19:39 AM

Marcus Aurelius: He was paid taxpayer money to be a spy.

As for the terrorist label, the only thing he's blown up is the NSA's credibility.


The NSA had credibility?
 
2013-12-24 10:19:53 AM

alaric3: Russian girls.


realrussianmatch.com 

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site.  Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong.  Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country.  But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause.  He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.  

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law...  I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.
 
2013-12-24 10:20:24 AM

Everfearful: "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made." - Franklin D Roosevelt

Considering he's considered enemy #1 by the top threats to Constitutional rights and international personal privacy, I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself.


His only ally is a country led by a KGB agent who helped kill millions of people, if that's my only friend then its time to make new friends.
 
2013-12-24 10:20:55 AM
just sayin

there could be a lot of forgiveness to the nsa
if they would use their wiretapping for something useful once in a while

like helping to shut down international fraudsters and scammers
but for some reason that seems to be of low priority
compared to the number of times i go to porn sites
odd that
perhaps im just being silly
 
2013-12-24 10:21:08 AM
Pretty sure that the "exposing NSA secrets" was the part he considered a victory, subbie.
 
2013-12-24 10:21:40 AM
Edward Snowden says his "mission is accomplished" and that he has "already won." Because being branded a traitor, a spy, and a terrorist by your home country lying, criminal fascists and a captive media that is failing to demonize this AMERICAN HERO and being forced to live in Russia is a great victory


just a little twirk here and a twirk there
 
2013-12-24 10:22:45 AM
1. Invaded Russia
2. Stayed there longer than Napoleon and Hitler combined
 
2013-12-24 10:24:01 AM

bindlestiff2600: just sayin

there could be a lot of forgiveness to the nsa
if they would use their wiretapping for something useful once in a while

like helping to shut down international fraudsters and scammers
but for some reason that seems to be of low priority
compared to the number of times i go to porn sites
odd that
perhaps im just being silly


Those princes needing help getting their money out and leaving Uganda are protected.
Kinda like the starving children, they get a pass, eh?
 
2013-12-24 10:24:04 AM
Snowden set out to expose the vast, unseen, and unsupervised scope of the NSA and other US agencies spying operations. He's done that. Single handed he changed the discussion in this country on how we are 'protecting' ourselves, and the unseen cost of that protection. Seems like mission accomplished to me.
 
2013-12-24 10:24:09 AM
I have no problem with Snowden spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

But I also think he is to some degree a hero.

The rub with being a martyr is the martyrdom bit.  It shouldn't be costless to betray the secrets of your country.  The only way to ensure that people are doing it for good reasons is to make sure they're ground up by the machinery afterward.
 
2013-12-24 10:24:20 AM
Mission accomplished? Do you mean to tell me that all of this spy activity has come to a screeching halt because the valiant Snowden has exposed it?

Puh-leeeze.
 
2013-12-24 10:24:24 AM
EABOD, subtard.
 
2013-12-24 10:25:03 AM
Well, Snowden is a hero to most Farkers.

And who wouldn't want a bunch of cheetos stained sociopath basement dwellers as their number one fans?
 
2013-12-24 10:25:35 AM
He did it thirty-five minutes ago?
 
2013-12-24 10:25:52 AM

Shadowknight: alaric3: Russian girls.

[realrussianmatch.com image 510x344] 

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site.  Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong.  Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country.  But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause.  He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.  

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law...  I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.


He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.
 
2013-12-24 10:28:48 AM
Obviously if you can't accomplish your every goal in a single move, you shouldn't even start.
 
2013-12-24 10:29:49 AM
No, mission NOT accomplished because he needs to tell us if UFOs exist and who really shot JFK.
 
2013-12-24 10:30:00 AM
I thought this article was interesting and possibly relevant:
 'Spy Kids' by Charles Stross
 
2013-12-24 10:30:01 AM
He just wants to be famous.
 
2013-12-24 10:30:23 AM

snocone: He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.


Again, that's why I am conflicted.  He did a disservice, at least in the short term, to American intelligence services and credibility.  But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government.  I've always been a proponent of airing dirty laundry where all can see when it comes to government, because while embarrassing now it lets us actually occupy the high ground we like to claim all the time.
 
2013-12-24 10:31:55 AM
Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.
 
2013-12-24 10:33:13 AM

JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?


Done in one.
 
2013-12-24 10:33:18 AM
Just because Snowden is guilty doesn't mean the NSA is innocent.
 
2013-12-24 10:33:21 AM
If Snowden was to come back to the USA, would he be tried by the secret court, military court or a jury trial?

/If it was jury trial, I already know which way I would vote.
 
2013-12-24 10:33:26 AM

SirEattonHogg: Well, Snowden is a hero to most Farkers.
And who wouldn't want a bunch of cheetos stained sociopath basement dwellers as their number one fans?


signed, a Fark regular.
 
2013-12-24 10:34:03 AM

Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.


You expect things to change all at once, huh?
 
2013-12-24 10:34:07 AM
only an asshole would call him a traitor.
 
2013-12-24 10:34:30 AM
Gee, I am having a difficult time coming up with the proper word.
The NSA was IS NOW all the way out  of control and bullying legal corporations to join them in ILLEGAL activity that they were sworn to not do in the first farking place.
Now they double down on the fascist derp and defy popular opinion, and THE LAW.

Remember that silly thing, THE LAW?
All you sycophants are all foaming at the mouth to enforce zero tolerance prison for victimless "crimes" and destroy lives, families, and OMG, The Children for your crappy "LAW".
But The LAW preventing NSA from alienating the ENTIRE PLANET against the USA, you pass on that one?
 
2013-12-24 10:35:05 AM
Know how this country lost all sense of morality and hope? By being full of people who think it's only worth doing something if it benefits themselves most of all. Success isn't always about you, subby.
 
2013-12-24 10:35:19 AM

Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?


I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.
 
2013-12-24 10:35:23 AM
images.dailykos.com

/can't believe I'm the first.
 
2013-12-24 10:35:33 AM
Remember when PFC Manning was the heroic whistleblower who revealed the abuses of power the Bush Administration was perpetrating?

/Google does
//maybe it's because Snowden hasn't joined the LGBT community yet
///wait, no, all the references to Manning being a hero are from before he had the operation... and the very same pundits started calling him a traitor shortly after... hmm
 
2013-12-24 10:35:42 AM

cryinoutloud: SirEattonHogg: Well, Snowden is a hero to most Farkers.
And who wouldn't want a bunch of cheetos stained sociopath basement dwellers as their number one fans?

signed, a Fark regular.


Said Billy Joel, I'd rather dance with the,,,
 
2013-12-24 10:36:29 AM
Funny, I didn't know this was all about him.
 
2013-12-24 10:36:41 AM
Sure he can never come home, but Moscow is a pretty damn nice city to live in if you have access to money.
 
2013-12-24 10:37:20 AM

ChipNASA: [images.dailykos.com image 440x287]

/can't believe I'm the first.


A date that will live in infamy.
 
2013-12-24 10:38:02 AM

NSA:  Nothing Sacred Anymore

 
2013-12-24 10:38:54 AM

Weatherkiss: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.


The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.
 
2013-12-24 10:39:19 AM

Shadowknight: Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.


Not sure.

This country is founded on the ideal that sometimes your government is bad and needs to be spanked, and promising them that you'll work in their best interests and then being told to run the North American KGB is your government betraying your trust in them more than anything else.

Part of the attack of the Government on the people is to shift the core ideals of our society from Patriotism as loyalty to your country as a people to Patriotism as loyalty to your country as the State.  One of the core founding ideals was that the government acts as a public servant:  it is commissioned by the people, of the people, for the people.  What we now call "leaders" used to be what was called "public servants".

It might sound extreme, but the fact of the matter is we should have started ejecting people from office the moment they tried to tell us they had some sort of authority over us.  The government has no authority over me; the government executes the authority of the whole of our society against me.  It is the tool of the people, and those in power are there to serve our will.  The moment they started claiming to be there to "lead", we should have ripped them from their chairs and firmly planted someone else to do their job.
 
2013-12-24 10:39:34 AM

silly season: If Snowden was to come back to the USA, would he be tried by the secret court, military court or a jury trial?

/If it was jury trial, I already know which way I would vote.


from popehat
We've discussed the whole "high court/low court" concept here a few times before - in that those who are powerful play by one set of rules, while the rest of us have to play by a very different set of rules.
...
The end result seems clear. If you're super high up in the political chain, you get the high court. Reveal classified info to filmmakers? No worries. Not only will you not be prosecuted or even lose your job, the inspectors will scrub your name from the report and, according to the article, the person in charge of the investigation will "slow roll" the eventual release of the report until you switch jobs.
But if you're just a worker bee and you leaked the unclassified draft report that names Panetta and Vickers? Well, you get the low court. A new investigation, including aggressive pursuit by the government, and interrogations of staffers to try to find out who leaked the report.


so he would get the low court
 
2013-12-24 10:39:55 AM

Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.

The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.


Can you have a Revolution w/o going all French?
 
2013-12-24 10:40:14 AM

Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.

The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.


I'm also hoping. But at the same time I'm under the impression that despite all the internet rage and media talking points (on both sides of the political spectrum), noone cares enough to do anything about it.
 
2013-12-24 10:41:23 AM

snocone: Can you have a Revolution w/o going all French?


I think it has been done.  Personally, I want the show so let's all lose our collective farking minds.
 
2013-12-24 10:42:50 AM

bluefoxicy: Shadowknight: Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.

Not sure.

This country is founded on the ideal that sometimes your government is bad and needs to be spanked, and promising them that you'll work in their best interests and then being told to run the North American KGB is your government betraying your trust in them more than anything else.

Part of the attack of the Government on the people is to shift the core ideals of our society from Patriotism as loyalty to your country as a people to Patriotism as loyalty to your country as the State.  One of the core founding ideals was that the government acts as a public servant:  it is commissioned by the people, of the people, for the people.  What we now call "leaders" used to be what was called "public servants".

It might sound extreme, but the fact of the matter is we should have started ejecting people from office the moment they tried to tell us they had some sort of authority over us.  The government has no authority over me; the government executes the authority of the whole of our society against me.  It is the tool of the people, and those in power are there to serve our will.  The moment they started claiming to be there to "lead", we should have ripped them from their chairs and firmly planted someone else to do their job.


There it is.

Just like first grade drinking fountain line. When the bully first steps up, whack whack whack.
Give an inch, lose it all.
 
2013-12-24 10:44:03 AM

Weatherkiss: I'm also hoping. But at the same time I'm under the impression that despite all the internet rage and media talking points (on both sides of the political spectrum), noone cares enough to do anything about it.


Seems to be the case.  Hard to predict when people snap.  The intelligence community is firmly intrenched and has a lot of power of persuasion.  I am not sure how the citizenry goes about effecting such a change.  This one may take time to figure out and the more people who pull back the curtain the better.  I understand why people love/hate Snowden.  What I can not understand is people who try to act like he is insignificant.
 
2013-12-24 10:44:32 AM

Gunny Highway: snocone: Can you have a Revolution w/o going all French?

I think it has been done.  Personally, I want the show so let's all lose our collective farking minds.


THIS is what "reality TV" was made for.
Public hangings. Only legal ones, mods.
No illegal activity promotion here.
 
2013-12-24 10:46:32 AM
How is this Snowden/NSA thing even a story?

I personally assumed the rapid digitizing of our lives via the internet, cell phones, auto black boxes, IPASS units, credit card records, speed cameras, and the rest, allowed spying on all of us and our worldwide friends.

All you who were surprised when Snowden shot off his mouth just sound naive.
 
2013-12-24 10:46:58 AM

snocone: Give an inch, lose it all.


Maybe we should have women run the country.  Give a man an inch, he wants a mile.  Give a woman an inch, she only wants eight.
 
2013-12-24 10:47:22 AM

Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: I'm also hoping. But at the same time I'm under the impression that despite all the internet rage and media talking points (on both sides of the political spectrum), noone cares enough to do anything about it.

Seems to be the case.  Hard to predict when people snap.  The intelligence community is firmly intrenched and has a lot of power of persuasion.  I am not sure how the citizenry goes about effecting such a change.  This one may take time to figure out and the more people who pull back the curtain the better.  I understand why people love/hate Snowden.  What I can not understand is people who try to act like he is insignificant.


I think history will show whether or not he is insignifigant. But as of this present moment I'm on the firm opinion that he is. Like all the other whistleblowers on the government, this fizzled because the American people simply don't care.
 
2013-12-24 10:47:47 AM
Wow, people are actually defending the NSA after more or less admitting to exceeding their mandate?


//People are dumb
 
2013-12-24 10:48:15 AM
Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.
 
2013-12-24 10:49:57 AM

Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: I'm also hoping. But at the same time I'm under the impression that despite all the internet rage and media talking points (on both sides of the political spectrum), noone cares enough to do anything about it.

Seems to be the case.  Hard to predict when people snap.  The intelligence community is firmly intrenched and has a lot of power of persuasion.  I am not sure how the citizenry goes about effecting such a change.  This one may take time to figure out and the more people who pull back the curtain the better.  I understand why people love/hate Snowden.  What I can not understand is people who try to act like he is insignificant.


One day, I'll become president.

Then I'll declare myself emperor in the 7th year of my second term.  It worked for Napoleon.

Maybe after a couple decades, Americans will figure it out.  If not, I'll have to start picking out peoples' hot wives and work on a successor.  Eventually they've got to break.
 
2013-12-24 10:50:00 AM
Here's a good point that I haven't seen mentioned even once.  If the NSA is so gaddam awesome at spying, how did this dude manage to get away with all that information, stowe is money offshore, and leave the country unnoticed, until he was ready to reveal what he knew?

By his account, the NSA should have been completely aware that his meneuvering was occuring.  But they were taken completely by surprise.  Even if he was covering his tracks, the NSA should have noticed that someone was covering their tracks.  If not, it seems to me that the NSA is actually a quite incompetent spying network.  They can't even keep their own people in check.  Even people who are contractors with elevated security clearance.  People who should be monitored with more scrutiny.

On some level, that has to amount to some bullshiat.
 
2013-12-24 10:50:51 AM
Give it arrest already.
 
2013-12-24 10:51:03 AM

Epic Fap Session: Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.


And?
 
2013-12-24 10:52:06 AM

Shadowknight: But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government.


I'm willing to bet that isn't how it plays out.

Government doesn't reform or behave when caught with its hand in the cookie jar. It doubles down on the secrecy and abuse because upping the ante and not-getting-caught is always the better policy.
Its why we find ourselves at such an extreme now, and there won't be a change until someone in leadership takes a literal torch to the place.

Whatever Snowden unveils you can rest assured that the truth is far worse and the NSA's top priority is to eliminate as much transparency as possible.

/But hey, at least one branch of government still listens to us.
 
2013-12-24 10:52:48 AM

durbnpoisn: Here's a good point that I haven't seen mentioned even once.  If the NSA is so gaddam awesome at spying, how did this dude manage to get away with all that information, stowe is money offshore, and leave the country unnoticed, until he was ready to reveal what he knew?

By his account, the NSA should have been completely aware that his meneuvering was occuring.  But they were taken completely by surprise.  Even if he was covering his tracks, the NSA should have noticed that someone was covering their tracks.  If not, it seems to me that the NSA is actually a quite incompetent spying network.  They can't even keep their own people in check.  Even people who are contractors with elevated security clearance.  People who should be monitored with more scrutiny.

On some level, that has to amount to some bullshiat.


They collect everything just in case (from what I have heard).  They may need to reevaluate what they are doing.
 
2013-12-24 10:56:56 AM

Epic Fap Session: Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.


you personally met the guy?
 
2013-12-24 11:00:16 AM

durbnpoisn: Here's a good point that I haven't seen mentioned even once.  If the NSA is so gaddam awesome at spying, how did this dude manage to get away with all that information, stowe is money offshore, and leave the country unnoticed, until he was ready to reveal what he knew?

By his account, the NSA should have been completely aware that his meneuvering was occuring.  But they were taken completely by surprise.  Even if he was covering his tracks, the NSA should have noticed that someone was covering their tracks.  If not, it seems to me that the NSA is actually a quite incompetent spying network.  They can't even keep their own people in check.  Even people who are contractors with elevated security clearance.  People who should be monitored with more scrutiny.

On some level, that has to amount to some bullshiat.


It's relatively easy to hide intentionally.  For some reason or another, I'm practically invisible--people can't track me without loads of effort due to my social behavioral patterns.  They'd have to have taps on everything I do, GPS and cameras in my car, in my house, at work, in my phone.  That's just a consequence of being me, for reasons I can't understand:  you can't passively gather data on me and get anything useful.  The NSA missed absolutely everything about me in a medium-scale concentrated investigation that involved 7 contracted investigators in 3 states along the east coast talking to everyone I've ever known and investigating every company I've ever worked for, pulling all electronic records... they didn't know I'd gotten away with a hit-and-run, didn't know any of my social contacts, couldn't piece together 90% of my life (they got exactly what I told them), they didn't even find out that I was running an illegal gambling racket and defrauding the government for a few thousand dollars per year while using a front business to cover it and launder my unreported proceeds.

If they were trying any harder, they'd need a dozen private investigators following me around everywhere, casing ... I spent most of my life at home, so casing "the places I hang out at" would be useless ... and so on.  Anything short of that is easily evadable by intent.

You'd be surprised at how hard it is to actually gather intelligence about someone.  It's not like a cartoon where the black coats turn on a TV and it's got your face on it 24/7.  Retroactive spying is ridiculously useless; active spying involves a lot of resources and is very hard to keep up for an extended period undetected.  In the case of espionage, spies are usually well-known and fed false information (Bruce Schneier had a field day going over the problems this causes--the end result is that espionage is a waste of time and resources, because you can't really trust any intelligence you get from it).

I'm unsurprised Snowden pulled it off.  A retarded Russian woman could pull it off--OH WAIT.
 
2013-12-24 11:01:00 AM

Edward 'Snowed-In'



/ The Universe has quite the sense of humor
// A licky boom-boom down
 
2013-12-24 11:01:45 AM
img.photobucket.com

LULZ were accomplished, subtard.
 
2013-12-24 11:01:46 AM
Anybody remember the Church Committee?  Yeah, antediluvian:  Millions of telegrams seined, the executives of Western Union? `gee, we didn't know' (ala Google, et al).
Only the technology and means of targeting have changed:   http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/book3/pdf/churchb3_1 0 _nsa.pdf

The National Security State can be put on a diet.  Private Data Brokers can drill down with a far greater range of `granularity' - the gov. can just plug their feeding tube into that reservoir if it really wants YOU.  Yes, these are unregulated job creators who will be hiring up those laid-off NSA quants and they'll be looking to further dry gulch us into some correlative inevitability or other owing to vastly improved `slicing and dicing' of the `demographic' - the targeting as precise (even if absolutely wrong) as having a tomahawk jabbed up one's tailpipe.

Senate Commerce Committee held a hearing on just that last week:   http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/229200

Chairman Rockefeller got a bit testy:

"Since before 9/11 I've been on the Intelligence Committee and. every day, I wake up to seven newspapers with nothing but NSA headlines.  And, I'm here to tell you, as one of the authors of FISA, the Patriot Act and all the rest of it, that the NSA is so secure in its protection of privacy as compared to this group that we are talking to, these data brokers, it's not even close.  This affects, as was pointed out, anybody, everybody.  Who knows?  NSA knows,  They are only likely to interact at a .000001 percent of people that they conclude need further observation.  This is everybody, anybody, but more than that divided into race, economic activities, education, and there's something -  I can't prove it is wrong - but there's something lethal about it..."

/Snowden will warrant a footnote
 
2013-12-24 11:08:19 AM
Hey Subby, what's your NSA badge number?
 
2013-12-24 11:08:35 AM
He gave Redditors and Dudebros across the country epic levels of smug for, yet again, being above the sheeple. What greater victory could one ask for?
 
2013-12-24 11:11:09 AM

bluorangefyre: No, mission NOT accomplished because he needs to tell us if UFOs exist and who really shot JFK.


Obviously UFOs do exist, and they killed JFK.
 
2013-12-24 11:12:28 AM

bluefoxicy: durbnpoisn: Here's a good point that I haven't seen mentioned even once.  If the NSA is so gaddam awesome at spying, how did this dude manage to get away with all that information, stowe is money offshore, and leave the country unnoticed, until he was ready to reveal what he knew?

By his account, the NSA should have been completely aware that his meneuvering was occuring.  But they were taken completely by surprise.  Even if he was covering his tracks, the NSA should have noticed that someone was covering their tracks.  If not, it seems to me that the NSA is actually a quite incompetent spying network.  They can't even keep their own people in check.  Even people who are contractors with elevated security clearance.  People who should be monitored with more scrutiny.

On some level, that has to amount to some bullshiat.

It's relatively easy to hide intentionally.  For some reason or another, I'm practically invisible--people can't track me without loads of effort due to my social behavioral patterns.  They'd have to have taps on everything I do, GPS and cameras in my car, in my house, at work, in my phone.  That's just a consequence of being me, for reasons I can't understand:  you can't passively gather data on me and get anything useful.  The NSA missed absolutely everything about me in a medium-scale concentrated investigation that involved 7 contracted investigators in 3 states along the east coast talking to everyone I've ever known and investigating every company I've ever worked for, pulling all electronic records... they didn't know I'd gotten away with a hit-and-run, didn't know any of my social contacts, couldn't piece together 90% of my life (they got exactly what I told them), they didn't even find out that I was running an illegal gambling racket and defrauding the government for a few thousand dollars per year while using a front business to cover it and launder my unreported proceeds.

If they were trying any harder, they'd need a dozen private inve ...


That was a rather long winded way of saying that "spying is very hard, and doesn't reveal much that is useful".

So, what did Snowden really accomplish then?  If what you're saying is true, he completely wasted his time and effort.
 
2013-12-24 11:12:46 AM

HailRobonia: Obviously UFOs do exist, and they killed JFK.


What if the UFO made JFK kill JFK?

www.virginmedia.com
 
2013-12-24 11:14:09 AM
Now, I'm no doctor...but I suspect the dude wasn't expecting a ticker-tape parade and breakfast at the White House. There was possibly a slight suspicion on his part that what he was about to do miiiiiight not go over so well with his country of origin.

Just thinkin' out loud.
 
2013-12-24 11:15:30 AM

Shadowknight: That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong. Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country. But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause. He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.


There is no patriotism in "my country right or wrong".  That is blind nationalism.  A true patriot believes their country should do right, even if they have to be shamed and "betrayed" into doing it.  Snowden obviously wasn't afraid of suffering personally to do this, but after what happened to Chelsea Manning (indefinite imprisonment, extended torture and every attempt by the gov't to avoid a fair trial) I don't blame him for fleeing.

Sadly, at this point, nothing could force the USA to "do right" geopolitically.  They will continue to spy, lie, bribe, coerce, murder and war to get what they want, just like most other countries would do if they had access to that tremendous amount of power.
 
2013-12-24 11:15:34 AM
Out of curiosity, who is paying his bills?  I mean, he's got to live somewhere and eat.   Does he even speak Russian?
 
2013-12-24 11:17:42 AM

snocone: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.

The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.

Can you have a Revolution w/o going all French?


The Revolution will not be televised.
 
2013-12-24 11:19:45 AM

Satanic_Hamster: Out of curiosity, who is paying his bills?  I mean, he's got to live somewhere and eat.   Does he even speak Russian?


He's got plenty of money.  He was working as a gov't contractor for years and shoved his money into offshore accounts.  He doesn't speak Russian, but he says he's learning.

That's what I heard anyway.
 
2013-12-24 11:20:54 AM

durbnpoisn: He's got plenty of money. He was working as a gov't contractor for years and shoved his money into offshore accounts. He doesn't speak Russian, but he says he's learning.

That's what I heard anyway.


I heard claims early on that his money was in US accounts that were frozen.
 
2013-12-24 11:26:14 AM

Marcus Aurelius: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

I had not heard that revealing phone hacking was patriotic.  Look at the News of the World phone hacking scandal.  No one even remembers who ratted them out.


Lolwut?
 
2013-12-24 11:29:07 AM

XveryYpettyZ: I have no problem with Snowden spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

But I also think he is to some degree a hero.

The rub with being a martyr is the martyrdom bit.  It shouldn't be costless to betray the secrets of your country.  The only way to ensure that people are doing it for good reasons is to make sure they're ground up by the machinery afterward.


This is where I disagree. I have such a sense of revulsion at the idea of "state secrets" despite the recognition that SOME are necessary and that we will never be rid of them, that I feel like the state is entitled only to the ones that don't get expose. The list of state secrets (if there could be one) that are unexposed should take up less than a single page of paper. You call what he did "betraying the secrets of his country." I find that a government who keeps secrets from its own people and which would punish people for telling the truth has hands so dirty already that they do not get to cry "betrayal."

I hope he gets away with it forever and finds some way to have a happy-ever-after.
 
2013-12-24 11:33:59 AM

Satanic_Hamster: durbnpoisn: He's got plenty of money. He was working as a gov't contractor for years and shoved his money into offshore accounts. He doesn't speak Russian, but he says he's learning.

That's what I heard anyway.

I heard claims early on that his money was in US accounts that were frozen.


I can't imagine it's hard for a computer security expert with almost a Master's degree would find it hard to get a job in Moscow. Their tech industry is booming up right now.
 
2013-12-24 11:34:34 AM
Swinging from the gallows pole comes to mind whenever I see his mug. He'll be in jail and forgotten like Private whats his name soon enough
 
2013-12-24 11:44:05 AM
I'm sure he is suffering horribly.
i.imgur.com

/If this is torture, chain me to the farking wall.
 
2013-12-24 11:46:59 AM

starsrift: I can't imagine it's hard for a computer security expert with almost a Master's degree would find it hard to get a job in Moscow. Their tech industry is booming up right now.


Who would hire him, though?  I mean, would you trust him with your computer systems?
 
2013-12-24 11:53:20 AM

Satanic_Hamster: I heard claims early on that his money was in US accounts that were frozen.


If that's true, then he really didn't think it out well. Even I would have thought of transferring my money if I was about to release a shiatstorm on the U.S. government.
 
2013-12-24 11:54:25 AM
www.chootem.com
 
2013-12-24 11:56:55 AM

vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.


Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says
 
2013-12-24 11:58:35 AM

cryinoutloud: If that's true, then he really didn't think it out well. Even I would have thought of transferring my money if I was about to release a shiatstorm on the U.S. government.


I think we figured out early on that he didn't think his cunning plan through very well.  Like getting to a friendly country *first*.
 
2013-12-24 12:06:08 PM

Langdon_777: snocone: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Gunny Highway: Weatherkiss: Yeah, his great reveal to the world at just how intricate and in-depth the NSA's spying programs are has really shaken up the American people and outraged them to the point where they're forcing the government's hand to do away with them spying on citizens in their own country and abroad. Clearly, Snowden (and Julian Assange) have permanently altered the course of national and foreign policy on espionage as the majority of America is outraged enough to do something about it.

... wait, what? You mean the American people have decided they might be annoyed, but not outraged enough to do something about it? What? You mean they keep electing the same people who signed this being legal into the same office every election year? You mean their outrage consists of complaining on internet forums and on media outlets without any desire to change the way things are done?

What a victory, Edward Snowden. You showed the world what America was doing, how wrong it was, and outside of hollow insults and saber rattling... the world shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't care.

You expect things to change all at once, huh?

I was kind of expecting a French Revolution type deal, yes. I can compromise though. If there's any proof that things are changing for the better in terms of what he revealed, I'll gladly read it and eat my words.

The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.

Can you have a Revolution w/o going all French?

The Revolution will not be televised.


Damn, 'cause that would be some FAT royalties, eh?
Challenge accepted!
Just have to convince Hollywood and Murdoch that we can show a profit offsetting their current contracts.
 
2013-12-24 12:07:32 PM

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says


Duhh, hey, slow students, the BESTEST way to keep tabs on your enemies is to fund them.
 
2013-12-24 12:08:41 PM
Gunny Highway:  The French Revolution didnt just happen because one day people got pissed off.

Nothing has changed yet, no.  Someday we may look back and look and pin point this as a significant moment in the change you are talking about.  Here is hoping.


I don't hold out hope for anything changing.  You forget that the majority of Americans are ignorant morons who don't have the capabilities to understand what really happens behind the scenes of their government.  Even if spoon fed they would rather obsess about Duck Dynasty or the Kardashians.  Thinking is too much effort.

There would only be outrage if the EBT system went down again or the Superbowl got cancelled.
 
2013-12-24 12:13:45 PM
And, lest we forget, Daddy sez, "The bestest enemies are the ones you create for yourself."
 
2013-12-24 12:14:15 PM

Headso: Epic Fap Session: Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.

you personally met the guy?


Gunny Highway: Epic Fap Session: Right or wrong, he's an insufferable douche.

And?


I've only seen what the rest of us have seen. Then I formed an opinion. Sorry it's different from yours. There are many many people that I haven't met about whom I've been able to form an opinion.
 
2013-12-24 12:25:01 PM
How's that stripper girlfriend lookin now. I don't know what that means.
 
2013-12-24 12:43:09 PM
If he had stopped at "The NSA is spying on US citizens", I could certainly see the argument of him doing it for his country.  Once he started releasing specifics on spying on foreign nations, fark him.
 
2013-12-24 12:53:58 PM

fickenchucker: How is this Snowden/NSA thing even a story?

I personally assumed the rapid digitizing of our lives via the internet, cell phones, auto black boxes, IPASS units, credit card records, speed cameras, and the rest, allowed spying on all of us and our worldwide friends.

All you who were surprised when Snowden shot off his mouth just sound naive.


this. so this.

Anyone with half a brain knew all this was occurring. All those foreign politicians who are shocked just shocked that the nsa was spying on them should be mad at their security people for allowing it. Most of all Americans should be mad that a loose cannon like Snowden was given that kind of access in the first place.
 
2013-12-24 01:03:32 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: He gave Redditors and Dudebros across the country epic levels of smug for, yet again, being above the sheeple. What greater victory could one ask for?


To grant us the happy ending of catharsis and go down in a blaze of glory like a Greek tragedy?
 
2013-12-24 01:23:35 PM

alaric3: Russian girls.


Maybe that was his plan all along.
 
2013-12-24 01:35:32 PM
SUBBY:
static.fjcdn.com
 
2013-12-24 01:40:26 PM

Shadowknight: alaric3: Russian girls.

[realrussianmatch.com image 510x344] 

GIS for "Russian Girls" brought this picture up from a Russian dating site.  Man I love the information age.

That said, I know what the guy did was technically wrong.   Yes, he betrayed an oath to his country.  But I have a hard time being mad at him, because he did it for what he (presumably) thought was a good cause.  He (presumably) believed his country committed a grave wrong, and revealed it to the world.  

So, letter of the law verses the spirit of the law...  I don't know, I can't really take a side on this one without feeling like a hypocrite to the other.



What oath to his country?, he was a employee of a private contractor

Enlisted and elected people take an oath to the people, to uphold the constitution

when do the court martials / impeachments start for those that took that oath and looked the other way?
 
2013-12-24 01:57:30 PM
I don't know, but a Snowden mask just doesn't have the weight that a Guy Fawkes mask has.
Gotta work on this problem.
 
2013-12-24 01:58:25 PM
If we strike him down now, he shall become more powerful than we could possibly imagine.
 
2013-12-24 02:02:25 PM

snocone: I don't know, but a Snowden mask just doesn't have the weight that a Guy Fawkes mask has.
Gotta work on this problem.


Guy Fawkes Day doesn't honor Guy Fawkes, it honors the fact that England narrowly averted a terrorist attack. It's like thinking September 11th honors Osama Bin Laden.

The V from the "V for Vendetta" film is nothing like the V from the original graphic novel. Sure, he wasn't a bad guy, but he definitely wasn't a good guy.
 
2013-12-24 02:02:50 PM

bigdog1960: How's that stripper girlfriend lookin now. I don't know what that means.


Well, mine is still lookin' pretty good.
But, she is starting to wool together money for a face lift.
While that presents opportunities, having that going for you may not be nice.
 
2013-12-24 02:04:25 PM
Congratulations on your victory King Pyrrhus.
 
2013-12-24 02:06:46 PM

Bith Set Me Up: snocone: I don't know, but a Snowden mask just doesn't have the weight that a Guy Fawkes mask has.
Gotta work on this problem.

Guy Fawkes Day doesn't honor Guy Fawkes, it honors the fact that England narrowly averted a terrorist attack. It's like thinking September 11th honors Osama Bin Laden.

The V from the "V for Vendetta" film is nothing like the V from the original graphic novel. Sure, he wasn't a bad guy, but he definitely wasn't a good guy.


I like the colonist's version better.

One person's terrorism is another's fool me once or charm the third.
 
2013-12-24 02:09:01 PM

Gunny Highway: I thought this article was interesting and possibly relevant:
 'Spy Kids' by Charles Stross


Tried to link that for you, but my link also got the boot. (Odd, the site didn't present a paywall to me, but then, I have NoScript turned on.)

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/28/spy_kids_nsa_surveil l ance_next_generation

Stross' "Spy Kids" article argues the issue isn't political, it's sociological, and he raises a serious question: what does it mean to be a member of any organization - governmental or corporate - today, as compared to 50 years ago when these organizations were still taking shape?

As long as everyone's jumping in on subby today, I'll give subby a cheery 9/10 for the trollarity, and link to the Washington Post Interview with Snowden. Long-form journalism isn't dead yet, and neither is this story.

If it wasn't Snowden, it would have been somebody else. It's not about Snowden-this, or Bush-that, or Obama-theotherthing. It's about what kind of society we're going to live in. Whatever you think of the leaks, that choice is upon us. Trading essential liberty in exchange for security isn't repugnant because it's unamerican; it's unamerican because it's repugnant. I, for one, am willing to accept one or two additional billion-dollar catastrophes per decade as preferable to the alternative of living the rest of my life in a trillion-dollar-a-year panopticon.
 
2013-12-24 02:10:57 PM
I do believe they have celebrating OBL on 9/11 for a decade or so.
And now, what was that date?
That is gonna play really big in Islamabad, not so much in Peoria.
 
2013-12-24 02:14:14 PM

Satanic_Hamster: starsrift: I can't imagine it's hard for a computer security expert with almost a Master's degree would find it hard to get a job in Moscow. Their tech industry is booming up right now.

Who would hire him, though?  I mean, would you trust him with your computer systems?


Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.
 
2013-12-24 02:15:21 PM
Not all heroes get the girl; not all heroes are rewarded.

Most heroes earn only death for their deeds.
 
2013-12-24 02:16:55 PM
Kindly show your work on solving the problem:
The technology does exist, period.
Humans will use that technology, period
If you could decide who that will be, pick one.

/the only win is not to play
 
2013-12-24 02:25:47 PM
There are things that will inevitably lead to corruption.
Religious dogma.
Corporate structure.
Nationalism.
Piles of money.
Political office, party, affiliation, funding, hell, anything to do with politics.
MegaMetaData.
Land, less so Sea.
Great greasy gobs of gopher guts, even.

/people, go figure
 
2013-12-24 02:30:27 PM

starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.


Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?
 
2013-12-24 02:32:18 PM
I'll try Subby logic on for size: because Billy Mitchell got court-martialed, air attacks on ships are impossible.  Therefore, the Pearl Harbor incident of 1941 never happened.
 
2013-12-24 02:35:29 PM

Satanic_Hamster: starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.

Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?


If he starts a team, they will come.
 
2013-12-24 02:35:29 PM
This self-righteous traitor needs to be rendered by the CIA. He's nothing but an AW with delusions of grandeur, and he belongs in prison.
 
2013-12-24 02:36:08 PM

cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says


I prefer intellectual honesty to blind hero-worship. You go right ahead and believe the guy whose only verifiable statements are lies and "helped the American public" by revealing foreign spying ops.
 
2013-12-24 02:37:49 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: I'll try Subby logic on for size: because Billy Mitchell got court-martialed, air attacks on ships are impossible.  Therefore, the Pearl Harbor incident of 1941 never happened.


Billy Mitchell argued LAND-BASED bombers would sink ships. No one doubted naval aviation could. After all, we built and operated CVs before Pearl Harbor.
 
2013-12-24 02:42:22 PM

vygramul: cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says

I prefer intellectual honesty to blind hero-worship. You go right ahead and believe the guy whose only verifiable statements are lies and "helped the American public" by revealing foreign spying ops.


Hello, by now both sides are lying or at least well misrepresented by the media.
This is the curtain show to misdirect and defuse sheep.
Stay on target.
The above the law fascist sociopaths running this operation are still unnamed.
THEY are who you are looking for, not these droids.
 
2013-12-24 02:50:08 PM

SirEattonHogg: Well, Snowden is a hero to most Farkers.

And who wouldn't want a bunch of cheetos stained sociopath basement dwellers as their number one fans?


The sociopaths are not the ones that believe in the 4th amendment.
 
2013-12-24 03:09:56 PM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Sorry, but I'm going to have to with Subby on this one- what did he win?  Everyone knows about the NSA spying now?  So, what?  Obama will stand up and  say "That's terrible.  Don't worry people, I'm on this." (actually, he already did), and nothing will change.

So, what was won?

(and, by the way, while saving democracy and all that, he also released stuff that had no business being released except to embarrass the U.S. to no real end - so fark him for that part)


"Because, remember, I didn't want to change society. I wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself."

FTFA. You can't choose, as a society, what you want unless you actually have a choice. That's what he set out to do, and that's what he did. Whether you applaud it or not, he still pulled it off.

/I personally applaud it wholeheartedly, but that's just my .02.
 
2013-12-24 03:09:56 PM

snocone: vygramul: cirrhosis_and_halitosis: vygramul: I've still not had it explained how revealing we tried to hack Medvedev's phone was being patriotic.

Well maybe you can get past your misguided patriotism and educate yourself on what the NSA has been up to domestically.

NSA's made 'secret' payments to RSA to aid spy program, report says

I prefer intellectual honesty to blind hero-worship. You go right ahead and believe the guy whose only verifiable statements are lies and "helped the American public" by revealing foreign spying ops.

Hello, by now both sides are lying or at least well misrepresented by the media.
This is the curtain show to misdirect and defuse sheep.
Stay on target.
The above the law fascist sociopaths running this operation are still unnamed.
THEY are who you are looking for, not these droids.


I don't object to holding the NSA responsible. Just because General Arnold served with distinction and won several battles doesn't mean I'm putting him on a pedestal, either even if the Brits WERE the bad guys.
 
2013-12-24 03:13:49 PM
GED. Booz Allen hires him and as a contractor is given access to this level of information.
That is the scandal. Government contractors should be investigated. With his resume I would not have hired him as a student employee with any access to confidential information.
 
2013-12-24 03:21:05 PM
 
2013-12-24 03:23:18 PM

volodya: GED. Booz Allen hires him and as a contractor is given access to this level of information.
That is the scandal. Government contractors should be investigated. With his resume I would not have hired him as a student employee with any access to confidential information.


In the dark ages, the Church had scribes copy documents that were used to communicate secrets. The trick was the scribes couldn't read, thus the secrets were all secured.

GED isn't a stretch.
 
2013-12-24 04:16:56 PM

NeoCortex42: If he had stopped at "The NSA is spying on US citizens", I could certainly see the argument of him doing it for his country.  Once he started releasing specifics on spying on foreign nations, fark him.


Oh, so that's where you draw the line... interesting.... I suppose. Sort of. But not much.

Edward Snowden is a hero in the truest sense of the word. He stood up for what is right, knowing full well that it would make him the target of the most powerful military dictatorship on earth. He has put his personal safety, and life, on the line for the very document that Americans hold holier than the bible.
 
2013-12-24 04:46:47 PM

JasonOfOrillia: Is the Dumbass tag for Subby?


has to be
 
2013-12-24 07:21:06 PM

czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.


Uh, I was outraged at the NSA about 20 years ago, so can I be outraged at Snowden now?

Please don't make your lack of interest in world and domestic affairs a restraint on my behavior.
 
2013-12-24 07:34:36 PM

volodya: GED. Booz Allen hires him and as a contractor is given access to this level of information.
That is the scandal. Government contractors should be investigated. With his resume I would not have hired him as a student employee with any access to confidential information.


Booze didn't conduct the background check, and we really don't know what he claimed on his resume.
 
2013-12-24 07:37:47 PM

Gyrfalcon: czetie: Anybody who is mad at Snowden for revealing what the NSA was doing needs to spend a couple of years being mad at the NSA for doing those things in the first place. If they have any outrage left after that, they can turn it on the small fry.

Uh, I was outraged at the NSA about 20 years ago, so can I be outraged at Snowden now?

Please don't make your lack of interest in world and domestic affairs a restraint on my behavior.


Um... sorry for the question, but how the eff did you manage to take czetie's post quite so scathingly on a personal level?
 
2013-12-24 10:02:53 PM

Marcus Aurelius: He was paid taxpayer money to be a spy.

As for the terrorist label, the only thing he's blown up is the NSA's credibility.


Also the ability of US security companies' viability on a global stage.  But yeah, let's all focus on how much GOOD he did.  No one wants to hear the bad shiat.
 
2013-12-25 03:15:52 AM

Satanic_Hamster: starsrift: Uh, Snowden's problem was with unlawful spying. So, any business that doesn't do spying? (anything but the FSB?) I mean, hell, he could just make the English versions of business websites for folks.

Do you think that matters for most businesses?   You think a company would be happy with a guy made famous for stealing data to be in charge of their information, no matter what his motives were?


Yeah, I'm sure his actions can be reduced to that sort of undetailed analysis by everyone since there was no international coverage of the incident, or awards given to him. Nobody will ever employ him ever again.
 
2013-12-25 10:49:40 AM
Guess how we can tell Subby is a democrat.

If Snowden had put this info out during a Republican term
1) The media would have released more than 1% of it
2) He would be on the DNC presidential ticket

Snowden's mistake was coming forward during a democrat term.
 
2013-12-25 11:20:23 AM

sithon: fickenchucker: How is this Snowden/NSA thing even a story?

I personally assumed the rapid digitizing of our lives via the internet, cell phones, auto black boxes, IPASS units, credit card records, speed cameras, and the rest, allowed spying on all of us and our worldwide friends.

All you who were surprised when Snowden shot off his mouth just sound naive.

this. so this.

Anyone with half a brain knew all this was occurring. All those foreign politicians who are shocked just shocked that the nsa was spying on them should be mad at their security people for allowing it. Most of all Americans should be mad that a loose cannon like Snowden was given that kind of access in the first place.


No one with "half a brain" was shocked.  If they stated such, it was for the even more naive public and media.  Give me a break people.  The governments, any and all governments, will use any and all information available to them.  If you are really, really upset by this, then stop using Google, Yahoo, Mastercard, Paypal, VISA, Verizon, AT&T, Amazon, etc. etc. etc.  Take yourself out of the electronic data stream.  Because data, especially transactional data that the government has a means to obtain, will be obtained.  It's inevitable.  Legal or not, it will be done.  Get over it. Israel, Russia, Germany, USA, France, UK are all equal offenders of this practice.

Snowden's revelations are beyond naive.  And change absolutely nothing.
 
2013-12-25 11:41:21 AM
Stop Think
How does your business work?
Does the boss handle the actual day to day widgets the company buys/sells/adds value/collects/whatever?
Absolutely not!
The lowest of the low paid clerk types handle this super secret, super sensitive data.

Word for the wise: watch your watchers!

/lowest common denominator is bad business
 
2013-12-25 12:09:45 PM

starsrift: Yeah, I'm sure his actions can be reduced to that sort of undetailed analysis by everyone since there was no international coverage of the incident, or awards given to him. Nobody will ever employ him ever again.


Never said no one would employ him again.  But it's going to SEVERELY limit his options.  Anyone who hopes to get a government contract or security clearance will not employ him.   And a lot of businesses will be hesitent (at best) to employ someone with such a reputation for fear of scaring customers.
 
2013-12-25 06:16:21 PM

Shadowknight: snocone: He betrayed only those already betraying the oaths they wasted breath on.

Again, that's why I am conflicted.  He did a disservice, at least in the short term, to American intelligence services and credibility.  But long term, we may be better off because we get more transparency in our government.  I've always been a proponent of airing dirty laundry where all can see when it comes to government, because while embarrassing now it lets us actually occupy the high ground we like to claim all the time.


Dirty or not, we paid for the laundry.
The laundry has our name embroidered on it.
It will continue to be laundered in our name.
Hang it out there.
 
2013-12-25 09:24:36 PM
Hey, NSA how about proving yourself useful with all that MegaMassiveDataDUMP and just tell us who hacked Target?

Asking too much?
Sorry to trouble you.
 
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