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(WTKR)   Husband wants pregnant wife removed from life support. Both are paramedics and had clearly stated their final wishes. Naturally Texas has a problem with this   (wtkr.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Texas, WFAA, paramedics, corporate citizen, Tarrant County, living wills  
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8858 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2013 at 11:20 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-24 09:46:16 AM  
Erick Munoz told WFAA doctors said his wife may have suffered a pulmonary embolism, which happens when blood clots travel to the lungs from elsewhere in the body. They do not know how long the baby went without nutrients and oxygen.

So basically she's a potato incubator because reasons. Seems legit.
 
2013-12-24 09:51:09 AM  

doyner: Erick Munoz told WFAA doctors said his wife may have suffered a pulmonary embolism, which happens when blood clots travel to the lungs from elsewhere in the body. They do not know how long the baby went without nutrients and oxygen.

So basically she's a potato incubator because reasons. Seems legit.


You said  potato twice.
 
2013-12-24 09:51:51 AM  
"Congratulations.  It's a potato!"
 
2013-12-24 10:04:58 AM  
Well, at least Texas law is up-front and explicit about using women's bodies as incubators.  Gotta give them credit for honesty, I guess.
 
2013-12-24 10:23:11 AM  
Fark Texas. Fark every legislator that voted for this in the ass with a rusty spike
 
2013-12-24 10:36:38 AM  

El_Perro: Well, at least Texas law is up-front and explicit about using women's bodies as incubators.  Gotta give them credit for honesty, I guess.


huh.  so texas made the first ever axlotl tank.  I can actually see the Republicans as the  Bene Tleilax.  they've got the right mind set for it.

*sigh*  Republicans.  they pretend they're all for smaller government, until they aren't.  where is that dedication to freedom of personal choice now, I wonder?
 
2013-12-24 11:10:51 AM  
Is the state going to pick up the medical bills for this and for raising potato kid?
 
2013-12-24 11:19:10 AM  

twistedmetal: Is the state going to pick up the medical bills for this and for raising potato kid?


That would be socialism.  So, unlikely.
 
2013-12-24 11:19:17 AM  

Weaver95: El_Perro: Well, at least Texas law is up-front and explicit about using women's bodies as incubators.  Gotta give them credit for honesty, I guess.

huh.  so texas made the first ever axlotl tank.  I can actually see the Republicans as the  Bene Tleilax.  they've got the right mind set for it.

*sigh*  Republicans.  they pretend they're all for smaller government, until they aren't.  where is that dedication to freedom of personal choice now, I wonder?


But they're against cloning, aren't they? So the make an axlotl tank they'll never reuse.
 
2013-12-24 11:23:04 AM  
ar879.files.wordpress.com

"please, for the love of God...don't ever show me in that condition on national television."
 
2013-12-24 11:24:22 AM  
Axolotl tank?
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-12-24 11:24:25 AM  
Texas: Steers and Queers.

/And backwards assholes.
 
2013-12-24 11:26:26 AM  
static4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-12-24 11:26:48 AM  
The Texas GOP legislators love stuff like this, They enjoy the suffering, it is like nectar for them. This will make their holidays even brighter!
 
2013-12-24 11:27:33 AM  
I've never understood how any law can specifically say, "you have no right to die".  I think Jack Kavorkian (sp?) had the right idea.

This is indeed a sad story.
 
2013-12-24 11:28:07 AM  
But I thought that Texass was all about smaller government?  Oh that's right, it was bullshiat from the git-go
 
2013-12-24 11:29:27 AM  
Texas is like the Walmart of states and Americans love Walmart so now we have a shiatton of people living under crazy laws.
 
2013-12-24 11:29:47 AM  
It just wouldn't be right unless the family had to endure several more months of suffering and be bankrupted by medical expenses while having their wishes violated. (Supply-side) Jesus approves.

In medical ethics there's a word for providing care without consent or against a patient's stated wishes:

Assault.
 
2013-12-24 11:30:24 AM  
Doesn't this typically go against medical science anyway? I mean, the brain with its complex hormones and glands works as the body's thermostat and will regulate the blood flow to baby, the baby temperature, the hormonal doses and so on. Without a properly working brain on mom's end... yeah. Potato kid.
 
2013-12-24 11:32:52 AM  
One more bell to answer; one more mouth to feed.
 
2013-12-24 11:39:38 AM  
It's the hospitals right to make as much money as possible and leave the husband and child in as much debt as possible.
 
2013-12-24 11:43:56 AM  
Ummm.....if the mother was so far gone that the baby would have issues I am thinking that the mother wouldn't have survived. Good CPR would not have been effective if the mother had been down that long. That being said, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE STATE OVERRIDE SOMEONES WRITTEN WISHES.

/Paramedic
//Research junky
 
2013-12-24 11:51:27 AM  
My question is, is Texas going to pick up the cost of her medical care to keep her (and the baby) on life support? That's not cheap and the family is already devastated by the mom's condition and the uncertainty of how the child is developing and if he/she will have any problems associated with the lack of O2. I think if Tx is saying she has to stay alive despite her wishes, then they need to pick up the tab, for both mom and any care the baby will need after he/she is born.
 
2013-12-24 11:54:19 AM  
Potato kid? Will he or she learn to count to itself?

Obama, you had your Katrina. Here is your Terry Shiavo
 
2013-12-24 12:02:35 PM  
Sneak in there at night and pull the plug, while holding everybody off by force until she's gone. Then alert the media, because you are about to become famous.

/I absolutely would do this for a loved one. And the note would already be in someone else's hands, just in case I get shot.
 
2013-12-24 12:03:03 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: Ummm.....if the mother was so far gone that the baby would have issues I am thinking that the mother wouldn't have survived. Good CPR would not have been effective if the mother had been down that long. That being said, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE STATE OVERRIDE SOMEONES WRITTEN WISHES.

/Paramedic
//Research junky


I thought the government had a compelling interest in the healthcare decisions of all Americans.
 
2013-12-24 12:03:14 PM  
"Texas state law prohibits withdrawing or withholding life-sustaining treatment from a pregnant patient, regardless of her wishes."

So, abort the kid, then take the mother off life support.
 
2013-12-24 12:04:21 PM  

GoldSpider: globalwarmingpraiser: Ummm.....if the mother was so far gone that the baby would have issues I am thinking that the mother wouldn't have survived. Good CPR would not have been effective if the mother had been down that long. That being said, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE STATE OVERRIDE SOMEONES WRITTEN WISHES.

/Paramedic
//Research junky

I thought the government had a compelling interest in the healthcare decisions of all Americans.


Apparently the States have Potato Panels.
 
2013-12-24 12:10:02 PM  

Rattlehead: "Texas state law prohibits withdrawing or withholding life-sustaining treatment from a pregnant patient, regardless of her wishes."

So, abort the kid, then take the mother off life support.


They're probably not allowed to abort the kid without the mothers consent. Something something men's rights something something.
 
2013-12-24 12:11:01 PM  

Rattlehead: "Texas state law prohibits withdrawing or withholding life-sustaining treatment from a pregnant patient, regardless of her wishes."

So, abort the kid, then take the mother off life support.


This, Daniel-san, is when falcon technique is wise. One punch, wisely placed, ends the fight.

Just remember to look shocked and swear to Buddha she fell that of stairs.

\Achievement unlocked: Coat Hanger Master
 
2013-12-24 12:14:14 PM  
I have to admit I am torn on his issue.

I think everyone would agree that this is a difficult issue.  I guess the problem is we have to balance the rights of the mother's right to die and the rights of the unborn child.  I will gladly admit that I am conflicted in this.  From the times of Hamilton and Burr the electorate of the United States has been able to engage in honest and civil discourse.  I hope this can remain to be true despite our personal feelings on this issue.
 
2013-12-24 12:15:44 PM  
FTA: Patients can indicate their future wishes about medical treatment, in the event that they are unable to communicate them, through forms called advance directives. But in Texas, under the Health and Safety Code, such a form includes the provision "I understand that under Texas law this Directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

Nowhere in the article does it state she filled out such a form, only that her husband states that is what her wishes would be. Is he saying that she would want the pregnancy terminated in such a circumstance? Let's face it, men have absolutely no say in abortion when the woman is not in a coma. Why would they have a say when she is?
 
2013-12-24 12:16:26 PM  

GoldSpider: globalwarmingpraiser: Ummm.....if the mother was so far gone that the baby would have issues I am thinking that the mother wouldn't have survived. Good CPR would not have been effective if the mother had been down that long. That being said, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE STATE OVERRIDE SOMEONES WRITTEN WISHES.

/Paramedic
//Research junky

I thought the government had a compelling interest in the healthcare decisions of all Americans.


The government has a compelling interest in making sure healthcare is available to all people.

The government has a compelling interest that, in a private market system, it isn't picking up the bill for some people because they are too cheap to take care of themselves.

The government does not have a compelling interest to force treatment on someone who made an informed decision to reject it.
 
2013-12-24 12:20:47 PM  

MarkEC: FTA: Patients can indicate their future wishes about medical treatment, in the event that they are unable to communicate them, through forms called advance directives. But in Texas, under the Health and Safety Code, such a form includes the provision "I understand that under Texas law this Directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

Nowhere in the article does it state she filled out such a form, only that her husband states that is what her wishes would be. Is he saying that she would want the pregnancy terminated in such a circumstance? Let's face it, men have absolutely no say in abortion when the woman is not in a coma. Why would they have a say when she is?


Because authority to make medical decisions defaults to the spouse in the event that the individual is unable to do so and there is no living will directing such authority elsewhere.
 
2013-12-24 12:21:19 PM  

GoldSpider: globalwarmingpraiser: Ummm.....if the mother was so far gone that the baby would have issues I am thinking that the mother wouldn't have survived. Good CPR would not have been effective if the mother had been down that long. That being said, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE STATE OVERRIDE SOMEONES WRITTEN WISHES.

/Paramedic
//Research junky

I thought the government had a compelling interest in the healthcare decisions of all Americans.


In realistic terms, this violates Roe V. Wade.
 
2013-12-24 12:23:58 PM  
Subby:

1. Current Texas law prohibits all pregnant women from having their DNR orders executed.  As someone who just signed his healthcare power of attorney this month, I'm split on this law.  My wife and I both have DNR orders in our estate documents.  However, I don't know that I could pull the plug if she were pregnant.  (I'm going to have to see if that's in her POA.)

2. From another article, they may have discussed the situation - but they never got around to signing any advanced directives.  So, even if this law wasn't on the Texas books - her wishes still wouldn't be carried out.
 
2013-12-24 12:26:14 PM  
Wonder how Texass would be to keep her alive if they had to pay 100% of the medical bills.
 
2013-12-24 12:27:03 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: Ummm.....if the mother was so far gone that the baby would have issues I am thinking that the mother wouldn't have survived. Good CPR would not have been effective if the mother had been down that long. That being said, HOW IN THE HELL CAN THE STATE OVERRIDE SOMEONES WRITTEN WISHES.

/Paramedic
//Research junky

Because, as TFA states, there is a provision in Texas law that when one signs a DNR, ~~such a form includes the provision "I understand that under Texas law this Directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

Don't like it?  Be like smart people, and don't live in Texas.
 
2013-12-24 12:29:21 PM  
I'm so old I remember when "no unfunded mandates" was a rally cry of right-wingers.

/I think it really meant something about gay escorts
 
2013-12-24 12:31:02 PM  

drwiki: In medical ethics there's a word for providing care without consent or against a patient's stated wishes:

Assault.


Be careful with that idea.  It might lead you question everything the government does.
 
2013-12-24 12:34:09 PM  
Old and busted: Death panels
New hotness: Life panels
 
2013-12-24 12:39:15 PM  

suburbanguy: Subby:

1. Current Texas law prohibits all pregnant women from having their DNR orders executed.  As someone who just signed his healthcare power of attorney this month, I'm split on this law.  My wife and I both have DNR orders in our estate documents.  However, I don't know that I could pull the plug if she were pregnant.  (I'm going to have to see if that's in her POA.)

2. From another article, they may have discussed the situation - but they never got around to signing any advanced directives.  So, even if this law wasn't on the Texas books - her wishes still wouldn't be carried out.


Are you terminally Ill? DNR is for people in hospice care, not healthy people. As stated in the article, an Advanced Directive is what you fill out to say you don't want to be put on long term life support if you become a vegetable. They will still resuscitate you and make a medical determination if you stand much of a chance of recovery.
 
2013-12-24 12:41:12 PM  

cryinoutloud: Sneak in there at night and pull the plug, while holding everybody off by force until she's gone. Then alert the media, because you are about to become famous.

/I absolutely would do this for a loved one. And the note would already be in someone else's hands, just in case I get shot.


Have fun with those 2 first degree murder charges! Yes, the baby counts as one. Don't worry though; Texas will fry you like a chicken, twice. Hell, if there are more than 3 nurses that see you do it; you won't have to wait 20 years or go through the bother of 73 appeals.

/ it's first degree because it would be premeditated.

// think about the state you're talking about; it's Texas! The land of many contradictory things
 
2013-12-24 12:42:15 PM  

Weaver95: El_Perro: Well, at least Texas law is up-front and explicit about using women's bodies as incubators.  Gotta give them credit for honesty, I guess.

huh.  so texas made the first ever axlotl tank.  I can actually see the Republicans as the  Bene Tleilax.  they've got the right mind set for it.

*sigh*  Republicans.  they pretend they're all for smaller government, until they aren't.  where is that dedication to freedom of personal choice now, I wonder?


FAIL

You are advocating the murder of the child based solely on the father's choice, in instances of a comatose pregnant woman. This mother didn't choose to abort, and her wishes are being carried out as much as is possible. Your silly approach would permit the father to terminate both mother and child, even in cases where the father intended to kill his wife.

This is like the Schiavo case, in which the husband's insistence on his wife's death was largely due to his adulterous affair.

By the way, the fetus is viable, and if the portion of the mother's brain that controls basic bodily functions is ok, the kid will be born ok. Using the word Potato to refer to someone with hypothetical brain problems, is like using the word N*gger for a person of African descent. There is no difference.
 
2013-12-24 12:42:35 PM  

MarkEC: suburbanguy: Subby:

1. Current Texas law prohibits all pregnant women from having their DNR orders executed.  As someone who just signed his healthcare power of attorney this month, I'm split on this law.  My wife and I both have DNR orders in our estate documents.  However, I don't know that I could pull the plug if she were pregnant.  (I'm going to have to see if that's in her POA.)

2. From another article, they may have discussed the situation - but they never got around to signing any advanced directives.  So, even if this law wasn't on the Texas books - her wishes still wouldn't be carried out.

Are you terminally Ill? DNR is for people in hospice care, not healthy people. As stated in the article, an Advanced Directive is what you fill out to say you don't want to be put on long term life support if you become a vegetable. They will still resuscitate you and make a medical determination if you stand much of a chance of recovery.



You do know that a healthy person can have a DNR in place right. But this is an Advance Directive and should be followed. This determination was made by someone with at least a rudimentary understanding of the human body and its functions.
 
2013-12-24 12:44:40 PM  
Is there anything stopping him from transferring her to a hospital in another state?
 
2013-12-24 12:44:55 PM  

TheSwissNavy: By the way, the fetus is viable, and if the portion of the mother's brain that controls basic bodily functions is ok, the kid will be born ok. Using the word Potato to refer to someone with hypothetical brain problems, is like using the word N*gger for a person of African descent. There is no difference.


You're a farking potato.
 
2013-12-24 12:48:44 PM  

MarkEC: suburbanguy: Subby:

1. Current Texas law prohibits all pregnant women from having their DNR orders executed.  As someone who just signed his healthcare power of attorney this month, I'm split on this law.  My wife and I both have DNR orders in our estate documents.  However, I don't know that I could pull the plug if she were pregnant.  (I'm going to have to see if that's in her POA.)

2. From another article, they may have discussed the situation - but they never got around to signing any advanced directives.  So, even if this law wasn't on the Texas books - her wishes still wouldn't be carried out.

Are you terminally Ill? DNR is for people in hospice care, not healthy people. As stated in the article, an Advanced Directive is what you fill out to say you don't want to be put on long term life support if you become a vegetable. They will still resuscitate you and make a medical determination if you stand much of a chance of recovery.


No, I'm healthy as a horse.  People sign healthcare powers of attorney and living wills when they're healthy, because by the time you need them, it's often too late to do anything.  I don't have a DNR filed, but my wife (or sister) can sign one on my behalf if anything happens.  Also, the POA specifically states that I'm supposed to be treated/rescucitated under almost all circumstances.  DNR can only be issued when I'm terminal and/or vegetative.

My point was that was even if Texas didn't supercede the advanced directive - it wouldn't matter.  She never signed an advanced directive in the first place.
 
2013-12-24 12:49:28 PM  

stuffy: Wonder how Texass would be to keep her alive if they had to pay 100% of the medical bills.


Jesus F Christ, can you stick to one topic? Hospital bills arent the topic, the legal issue is the topic.

Look up the word Topic sometime, it doesnt mean A Bunch Of Random Sh*t.

Say the woman's medical insurance covered the bill 100%, would that change your ethics?
 
2013-12-24 12:49:57 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: MarkEC: suburbanguy: Subby:

1. Current Texas law prohibits all pregnant women from having their DNR orders executed.  As someone who just signed his healthcare power of attorney this month, I'm split on this law.  My wife and I both have DNR orders in our estate documents.  However, I don't know that I could pull the plug if she were pregnant.  (I'm going to have to see if that's in her POA.)

2. From another article, they may have discussed the situation - but they never got around to signing any advanced directives.  So, even if this law wasn't on the Texas books - her wishes still wouldn't be carried out.

Are you terminally Ill? DNR is for people in hospice care, not healthy people. As stated in the article, an Advanced Directive is what you fill out to say you don't want to be put on long term life support if you become a vegetable. They will still resuscitate you and make a medical determination if you stand much of a chance of recovery.


You do know that a healthy person can have a DNR in place right. But this is an Advance Directive and should be followed. This determination was made by someone with at least a rudimentary understanding of the human body and its functions.


I don't know anyone who does, but if that's your thing, ok. If I have a survivable heart attack, I certainly would want to live. The only thing I've heard of on the level of a healthy person having a DNR is certain religious beliefs that cause people to not want blood transfusions even if it means they die. To each their own I guess.
 
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