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(CNN)   Folks, we've identified Patient Zero in the War on Christmas -- Abraham Lincoln   (cnn.com) divider line 37
    More: Scary, Christmas cards, Abraham Lincoln, humans, Benjamin Harrison, Christianity in the United States, David Frum, The Daily Beast, Calvin Coolidge  
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4896 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Dec 2013 at 11:19 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-24 07:42:14 AM  
So they were all heathens back then? I'm shocked!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-12-24 08:31:20 AM  
Lincoln? Somebody should put a bullet in his brain.

/DNRTFA
 
2013-12-24 08:58:22 AM  
There's a war on the English language, and subby's side is winning.
 
2013-12-24 09:57:29 AM  
When Lincoln found out there was a toy factory and enslaved elves at the North Pole he dispatched General Sherman. Now the North Pole looks like this:
i.dailymail.co.uk
The white rainbow is left over from the chemical weapons, of course.
 
2013-12-24 09:58:32 AM  
We have met the enemy, and he is Abe
 
2013-12-24 10:09:28 AM  
Wow, kudos to the conservative David Frum for laying out some very basic facts about Christmas in America.  Not that any of the "War on Christmas" fundies will bother to read or understand it.
 
2013-12-24 10:25:56 AM  
Good history except for one part, Lincoln never grew out of his atheist phase.

He never joined a church, nor fop did he speak about Jesus much.

In fact, his political allies had to coerce him into adding more God and Jesus. Lincoln used religious imagery because it was expected of him.
 
2013-12-24 10:51:29 AM  
I'm gonna go write fiction where Jesus gets sodomized by Osiris.

Happy Holidays!
 
2013-12-24 10:57:31 AM  
The Christmas of Santa and Rudolph, and trees and stockings, and candy canes and "Merry Christmas" greetings began to be most publicly celebrated in the United States only after -- and only because -- the religious impetus for the holiday had already dwindled away.

Very well said.
 
2013-12-24 11:05:37 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-24 11:24:22 AM  
Well, the people who care about the War on Christmas probably think the South should have won anyway.
 
2013-12-24 11:26:16 AM  
Well, he did free the slaves. I'm sure that ruined Christmas for a lot of honkeys
 
2013-12-24 11:26:45 AM  

Hoban Washburne: Wow, kudos to the conservative David Frum for laying out some very basic facts about Christmas in America.  Not that any of the "War on Christmas" fundies will bother to read or understand it.


being a Christian I admit I'm tired of how Christmas no longer is the time of year when folks get to relax and enjoy time with their friends and family and instead as become one huge shopping experience. I feel there is a war on the american christma traditions (from the article 1900's traditions).  

Truthfully I've never understood why Easter isn't the big party day for Christians.
 
2013-12-24 11:33:30 AM  

Arkanaut: Well, the people who care about the War on Christmas probably think the South should have won anyway.


Wouldn't that have included a good portion of the residents of NY during the civil war?
 
2013-12-24 11:37:08 AM  

Waldo Pepper: Hoban Washburne: Truthfully I've never understood why Easter isn't the big party day for Christians.


It used to be. I think it may be the bigger one in Latin America. Christmas wasn't even that big of a deal until the late 19th century. The early Church didn't even recognize it as one of the major Christian holidays.

I've been trying to be less cynical lately, commercialism is the only reason I can think of as to why it's bigger.
 
2013-12-24 11:41:39 AM  

Fireproof: Waldo Pepper: Hoban Washburne: Truthfully I've never understood why Easter isn't the big party day for Christians.

It used to be. I think it may be the bigger one in Latin America. Christmas wasn't even that big of a deal until the late 19th century. The early Church didn't even recognize it as one of the major Christian holidays.

I've been trying to be less cynical lately, commercialism is the only reason I can think of as to why it's bigger.


I'm sure you are right.  I do hate the "war" on the Christmas public traditions, heck I don't mind a festivus pole being put up.  Everyone should stop the bickering and lets put the fun back into the Christmas season.
 
2013-12-24 11:41:58 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Good history except for one part, Lincoln never grew out of his atheist phase.


Wiki says that debate is most definitely not settled.
 
2013-12-24 12:22:39 PM  

Fireproof: Darth_Lukecash: Good history except for one part, Lincoln never grew out of his atheist phase.

Wiki says that debate is most definitely not settled.




The two books quoted were from a Christian standpoint.

His speeches were just that- political speeches.

And him going to church with his wife after two of their kids died was probably to support his wife, who suffered from a heavy depression. Again, he never joined a church. Nor is there any mention of being Baptized-which is very important in Christian belief.

But Lincoln lost an election due to perceived hostility to Christendom, Linvpcoln being the master politician.

As Carl Sandburg recounts in Abraham Lincoln: The Prairie Years, Lincoln attended one of Cartwright's revival meetings. At the conclusion of the service, the fiery pulpiteer called for all who intended to go to heaven to rise. Naturally, the response was heartening. Then he called for all those who wished to go to hell to stand, unsurprisingly there were not many takers. Lincoln had responded to neither option. Cartwright closed in. "Mr. Lincoln, you have not expressed an interest in going to either heaven or hell. May I enquire as to where you do plan to go?" Lincoln replied: "I did not come here with the idea of being singled out, but since you ask, I will reply with equal candor. I intend to go to Congress."[

If he spoke religiously in a speech, it was to make a point. If he invoked God, it was meant to inspire.

Lincoln was the first Americans to hear about Darwinism, and the among the first to talk about it positively. Strangely enough, Lincoln rarely spoke about religion with others.
 
2013-12-24 12:57:43 PM  
Shouldn't that be Herod?
 
2013-12-24 12:58:50 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Arkanaut: Well, the people who care about the War on Christmas probably think the South should have won anyway.

Wouldn't that have included a good portion of the residents of NY during the civil war?


The latter, yes.  The former, maybe upstate in Paladino country.
 
2013-12-24 01:09:04 PM  
Um, I thought it was King Herod.
 
2013-12-24 01:48:57 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Arkanaut: Well, the people who care about the War on Christmas probably think the South should have won anyway.

Wouldn't that have included a good portion of the residents of NY during the civil war?




New York City rioted over the draft and race in 1863. Middle class and Irish went crazy and burned down a black orphanage, attracted abolitionist homes and people.

New York City had strong ties the the cotton trade in the south. Tammany Hall ( old Democratic) hated Albany and DC, and encouraged segregation between the races.

After the a Riots, Irish were actually looked on more favorably.
 
2013-12-24 02:02:27 PM  
The author of TFA seems awfully fixated on Christmas Trees, which is odd since they didn't become fashionable in the English speaking world until Victoria and Albert started putting them up in the palace.

So pretty much any president before Lincoln or Grant would have looked at Das Tannenbaum and gone "wtf is this fire hazard doing in my living room?"
 
2013-12-24 02:06:56 PM  
Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion. Religion's been steadily sneaking back in every since, embraced by the same people whose ancestors hated it back in the day.
 
2013-12-24 02:07:52 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Truthfully I've never understood why Easter isn't the big party day for Christians


Maybe they are not into pagan female fertility festivals ?
(their war on traditional marriage continues !!, wont someone think of the children)
 
2013-12-24 02:29:59 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Truthfully I've never understood why Easter isn't the big party day for Christians.


Christmas had too much of a head start: Saturnalia was assimilated within a few hundred years, while Ostara took much longer.
 
2013-12-24 02:35:49 PM  

edmo: Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion. Religion's been steadily sneaking back in every since, embraced by the same people whose ancestors hated it back in the day.


wouldn't that be "government funded religion" and not religon in general?
 
2013-12-24 03:37:24 PM  

Hoopy Frood: Shouldn't that be Herod?


This
 
2013-12-24 03:54:43 PM  
I think Oliver Cromwell would disagree
 
2013-12-24 04:19:49 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-12-24 04:33:18 PM  

Speaker2Animals: So they were all heathens back then? I'm shocked!


Well, they were undeniably more respectful of each others' religious differences, and cognizant of the fact that if you favoured Christmas by government decree, it was a slippery slope to the present derp.
 
2013-12-24 04:38:37 PM  
Had to laugh my ass off Sunday while watching the Seahawks game on Fox. On top of their scoreboard when they were going to or coming from commercial were the words "Happy Holidays!" Guess this means Fox themselves are on their own shiat list...?
 
2013-12-24 05:22:35 PM  

Hoopy Frood: Shouldn't that be Herod?


D_Moran: Um, I thought it was King Herod.


Uhm... not to nitpick but they are only considering people who you know actually existed I think.

However I doubt I'm going to send you into cardiac arrest when I tell you that the inerrant beacon of virtue CNN is demonstrably wrong if they are claiming Lincoln was the first xmas hater.

http://www.livescience.com/32891-why-was-christmas-banned-in-america -. html

dnrta
 
2013-12-24 11:01:12 PM  

ScaryBottles: Hoopy Frood: Shouldn't that be Herod?

D_Moran: Um, I thought it was King Herod.

Uhm... not to nitpick but they are only considering people who you know actually existed I think.

However I doubt I'm going to send you into cardiac arrest when I tell you that the inerrant beacon of virtue CNN is demonstrably wrong if they are claiming Lincoln was the first xmas hater.

http://www.livescience.com/32891-why-was-christmas-banned-in-america -. html

dnrta


You don't think Herod existed?
 
2013-12-25 05:39:26 AM  

Hoopy Frood: ScaryBottles: Hoopy Frood: Shouldn't that be Herod?

D_Moran: Um, I thought it was King Herod.

Uhm... not to nitpick but they are only considering people who you know actually existed I think.

However I doubt I'm going to send you into cardiac arrest when I tell you that the inerrant beacon of virtue CNN is demonstrably wrong if they are claiming Lincoln was the first xmas hater.

http://www.livescience.com/32891-why-was-christmas-banned-in-america -. html

dnrta

You don't think Herod existed?


Some people are really ignorant when it comes to biblical historiography. Some people stupidly think Jesus doesn't exist. That's fair enough since there are no contemporary records of him, though there are enough primary and secondary sources to be fairly certain. But some people take it even further to doubting the existence of any biblical figure.
 
2013-12-25 09:29:35 AM  

edmo: Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion. Religion's been steadily sneaking back in every since, embraced by the same people whose ancestors hated it back in the day.


Politics ruined religion, and now religion returns the favor.
 
2013-12-25 12:52:24 PM  

edmo: Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion.


You're remembering your elementary text book, not reality.  Puritans weren't in favor of religious freedom, they were in favor of their religion, which wasn't in power in England (until Cromwell, when many moved back).  This included some famous banishments and fairly intolerant behavior and rules (like women no longer being able to speak in church).
 
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