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(Bloomberg)   Siemens becomes the first to penetrate the U.S. market for offshore wind farms   (bloomberg.com) divider line 21
    More: Spiffy, Siemens Energy  
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606 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Dec 2013 at 10:43 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



21 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-24 10:31:00 AM  
Somebody told me it was pronounced, "Zay-mens".

/????
 
2013-12-24 11:01:37 AM  

gopher321: Somebody told me it was pronounced, "Zay-mens".

/????

i1.sndcdn.com
 
2013-12-24 11:05:49 AM  
Haha, I get it. Semen penetration. It's a play on words.
 
2013-12-24 11:09:45 AM  
Overpriced electricity.
Dumb idea.
 
2013-12-24 11:12:26 AM  
Residents including the family of former President John F. Kennedy have sued to stop the project, saying it will spoil a uniquely beautiful area.

why do they hate America?
 
2013-12-24 11:13:46 AM  

Betep: Overpriced electricity.
Dumb idea.


Never mind those pesky facts that wind power is one of the cheapest forms of electricity available.

/although I will agree that the cost of offshore wind in the USA is currently unproven.
 
2013-12-24 11:18:51 AM  
Oh cum on, subby.
 
2013-12-24 11:28:01 AM  

gopher321: Somebody told me it was pronounced, "Zay-mens".

/????


Wikipedia has it as "zee'-mens".

/My dad works in the healthcare technology division.
//We call it "see'-mens".
 
2013-12-24 11:57:17 AM  
So why aren't American companies producing these turbines?
 
2013-12-24 11:57:31 AM  

MrSteve007: Betep: Overpriced electricity.
Dumb idea.

Never mind those pesky facts that wind power is one of the cheapest forms of electricity available.

/although I will agree that the cost of offshore wind in the USA is currently unproven.


Never mind the pesky fact Cape Wind power is going to cost 15% more than anything on the market, it will increase in price 1.5% every year for the first 20 years of operation, power companies are forced to buy electricity from them, anything "marine" or "Nantucket Sound" is going to cost big bucks, and no one wants to invest in it.

Put a telephone pole in your front yard, a couple hundred bucks.
Put a piling in Nantucket Sound, a couple thousand bucks.
 
2013-12-24 12:21:17 PM  

KellyX: So why aren't American companies producing these turbines?


My understanding is that GE makes large wind turbines.  But the project could have used a competitive bid, in which probably GE overbid.  It also sounds as if the project wanted the manufacturer as a equity partner, and GE may have not wanted to invest its capital that way.
 
2013-12-24 12:47:39 PM  

Betep: Never mind the pesky fact Cape Wind power is going to cost 15% more than anything on the market, it will increase in price 1.5% every year for the first 20 years of operation, power companies are forced to buy electricity from them, anything "marine" or "Nantucket Sound" is going to cost big bucks, and no one wants to invest in it.


Looking more closely at the issue, here's what I've come across:

The power purchase agreement of the turbine output is guaranteed to be 18.7 cents a kWh, and the output will directly offset one of the few mainland petroleum fueled power plants. The argument against this is that the power is more costly than standard retail rates - however I'm of the belief that this project will likely not dramatically adjust local rates. As evidenced by a market with nearly 100% oil powered electricity, Hawaii - this source of electricity is crazy, crazy expensive. The folks over there pay between $0.28 to $0.36 a kWh; well over double the rate of what the cost of power of this offshore turbine farm.

i'd be most curious to compare the energy rates of Cape Wind vs. that of the specific petroleum plant it's displacing. I'd wager it's quite close, if not cheaper. It also doesn't face the issue of future cost of emissions limits from the EPA and associated scrubber technology, along with the wildly fluctuating cost of petroleum as a fuel source. And has a flat fuel cost of zero over the long term. Also, i'm not 100% sure how this wind project is going to tie into the grid - if it's directly into Nantucket island or the mainland, but I do see quite a bit of literature and reports on the energy limitations and high cost of bringing a third mainland grid-tie to Nantucket island, to cover the area's expanding energy needs.

Now of course, if you compare today's cost of the offshore wind project to that of the currently cheap form of natural gas, there is an interesting argument. But you have to gloss over the fact that the price of wind generation itself if very stable over the period of decades (unlike that of nat gas), and you have to ignore the issues of the still required undersea cabling cost to power Nantucket.

I have a strong feeling, like that of most complicated, large issues, the answer lies somewhere in between: Is the offshore wind power cheaper than the existing power plant? likely. Is off shore wind power cheaper than the currently cheapest form of energy? Highly unlikely. Will the long-term cost of energy from the offshore plant be cheaper than other options. Likely.
 
2013-12-24 12:55:01 PM  

Betep: Overpriced electricity.
Dumb idea.


Costs of electricity by source, according to the DOE:
Coal: $100.1/mwh
Wind: $86.6/mwh
 
2013-12-24 01:37:55 PM  
 
2013-12-24 01:51:44 PM  
Surprised my company hasn't made an attempt at offshore in the states yet. We started out solely as offshore wind power originally and produced the first 5 MW machine which is designed for offshore use in the first place. Always wanted to take a stab at working on the offshore turbines but not many Americans get to in the company.

Dinjiin:
My understanding is that GE makes large wind turbines.  But the project could have used a competitive bid, in which probably GE overbid.  It also sounds as if the project wanted the manufacturer as a equity partner, and GE may have not wanted to invest its capital that way.

GE's 4.1 - 113 Offshore turbines are REALLY expensive because they're direct drive, similar to Enercon's turbines. They're also only 4.1MW compared to Siemens 6MW.
.
 
2013-12-24 01:57:11 PM  
Eh, didn't see that they were putting up 3.6's. Surprising.
 
2013-12-24 03:02:29 PM  

KellyX: So why aren't American companies producing these turbines?


Because Solyndra?
 
2013-12-24 03:33:39 PM  
if only they had come up with this to help power the gas chambers they made for Hitler's concentration camps.  then again, maybe they didnt want to spread the stench around too far.

/oh business history
//yer cute sometimes
 
2013-12-24 04:46:12 PM  

StopLurkListen: Betep: Overpriced electricity.
Dumb idea.

Costs of electricity by source, according to the DOE:
Coal: $100.1/mwh
Wind: $86.6/mwh


You quoted land based wind.  Water based wind is something like 250+
 
2013-12-24 05:56:08 PM  

MrSteve007: Betep: Overpriced electricity.
Dumb idea.

Never mind those pesky facts that wind power is one of the cheapest forms of electricity available.

/although I will agree that the cost of offshore wind in the USA is currently unproven.


Absolutely true, until you factor in that annoying capacity factor, which about triples the cost to generate the same amount of electricity.

/it's only a fact if it's complete, otherwise it's propaganda
 
2013-12-24 06:55:16 PM  

suburbanguy: gopher321: Somebody told me it was pronounced, "Zay-mens".

/????

Wikipedia has it as "zee'-mens".

/My dad works in the healthcare technology division.
//We call it "see'-mens".


Just about everyone in the US calls it See-mens but anything from Germany, stuff like video trainings will pronounce it zee-mens. This is usually voice over with a generic stock photo. I've found it very funny that the young, slim black guy they plaster over web trainings sounds like a heavy set, middle-age German man.
 
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