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(Slate)   The University of Kansas thinks it's perfectly acceptable to fire professors who post questionable material on Facebook and Twitter   (slate.com) divider line 166
    More: Fail, University of Kansas, Kansas, Facebook, internet, professors, labour movement, sex slavery, Phil Robertson  
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9913 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2013 at 8:41 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-23 07:27:13 PM
I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".
 
2013-12-23 07:30:18 PM
So they're just throwing tenure out the window?
 
2013-12-23 08:04:43 PM
If you can't say it to your boss or your mother in law, don't say it on the Internet.
 
2013-12-23 08:22:40 PM
Good to see that PC crap boomerang. You reap as you sow.....or something like that.
 
2013-12-23 08:41:42 PM

Red Shirt Blues: Good to see that PC crap boomerang. You reap as you sow.....or something like that.


Cry more.

Institutions and employers have had social media policies since Myspace hit the internet in 2001.
 
2013-12-23 08:45:02 PM
God, I really hate my alma mater right about now.
 
2013-12-23 08:46:21 PM

hardinparamedic: Red Shirt Blues: Good to see that PC crap boomerang. You reap as you sow.....or something like that.

Cry more.

Institutions and employers have had social media policies since Myspace hit the internet in 2001.


He's not crying... he's gloating.
 
2013-12-23 08:48:11 PM
How about just not hiring anyone that uses facebook or twitter? Hell, you can remove facebook from it if you want, twitter seems to have it worse.
It seems like it'd be a pretty good filter.
 
2013-12-23 08:48:39 PM
I think the answer to ugly speech is more speech, not less speech, and certainly not mob statements of how we are offended and we demand you be fired.

I like how Schuman takes the view that it was good to fire Sacco, good to fire Robertson, and heinous to do the same to a professor.

I guess that point of view is obvious and to be expected, it's a shame it's the one Slate went with.
 
2013-12-23 08:48:42 PM

fusillade762: So they're just throwing tenure out the window?


The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat in a public forum. Who's throwing what out the window?
 
2013-12-23 08:49:38 PM
tweet...SERIOUS BUSINESS!
 
2013-12-23 08:50:22 PM

cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".


The problem is that usually with Twitter and Facebook, the comments are along the lines of "die f&@@0t die" and not "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".  And when people make stupid and very offending comments, they get mad and can't understand why people or their employer don't want to be associated with them anymore and part ways.
 
2013-12-23 08:51:54 PM

cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".


Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.
 
2013-12-23 08:52:31 PM
The other half of Eisenhower's farewell speech not involving the military industrial complex is coming true as well.
 
2013-12-23 08:53:04 PM
The professor tweeted that the earth isn't 6,000 years old?
 
2013-12-23 08:53:18 PM

RoyBatty: I think the answer to ugly speech is more speech, not less speech, and certainly not mob statements of how we are offended and we demand you be fired.

I like how Schuman takes the view that it was good to fire Sacco, good to fire Robertson, and heinous to do the same to a professor.

I guess that point of view is obvious and to be expected, it's a shame it's the one Slate went with.


Odd. I don't recall any posts such as this one when Phil Robertson was put on hiatus. It was pretty much "he's a Christian and should be crucified for what he said".

/then again, a large number of university professor are liberal and not held to a higher standard.
 
2013-12-23 08:55:13 PM

iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.


Don't try to make it out to be something it wasn't. He didn't make anything that could be considered a criminal threat. Yes he made a stupid comment that somebody in his position should know not to make in a public forum, but it wasn't a criminal threat or anywhere near a criminal threat. He was punished for it, and if the school saw fit to fire him, I wouldn't argue it.
 
2013-12-23 08:55:22 PM

Lee451: It was pretty much "he's a Christian and should be crucified for what he said".


CITATION NEEDED - BY WHO?
 
2013-12-23 08:55:49 PM

RoyBatty: I think the answer to ugly speech is more speech, not less speech, and certainly not mob statements of how we are offended and we demand you be fired.

I like how Schuman takes the view that it was good to fire Sacco, good to fire Robertson, and heinous to do the same to a professor.

I guess that point of view is obvious and to be expected, it's a shame it's the one Slate went with.


KU is not a for profit business.
 
2013-12-23 08:56:03 PM
izquotes.com
 
2013-12-23 08:56:44 PM

iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.


"#NavyYardShooting The blood is on the hands of the #NRA. Next time, let it be YOUR sons and daughters. Shame on you. May God damn you."

Not really.
 
2013-12-23 08:57:09 PM

ongbok: iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

Don't try to make it out to be something it wasn't. He didn't make anything that could be considered a criminal threat. Yes he made a stupid comment that somebody in his position should know not to make in a public forum, but it wasn't a criminal threat or anywhere near a criminal threat. He was punished for it, and if the school saw fit to fire him, I wouldn't argue it.


You seem to have criminal threat on the mind
 
2013-12-23 08:57:52 PM

hardinparamedic: Red Shirt Blues: Good to see that PC crap boomerang. You reap as you sow.....or something like that.

Cry more.

Institutions and employers have had social media policies since Myspace hit the internet in 2001.


You really didn't read the article, did ya?

Herr Professor Von InnocentLamb made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

/ KU is in Lawrence; home of most of democrats in kansas
 
2013-12-23 08:58:01 PM

iheartscotch: The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.


Really? What he said was a dick thing. If you made the argument it was a "criminal threat", you'd be laughed out of a court room.

It goes back to "Yeah, you have the freedom to say it, but it's something that should be kept to yourself."
 
2013-12-23 09:00:05 PM

iheartscotch: Herr Professor Von InnocentLamb made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.


Oh for the love of whatever deity it was, no it wasn't. You'd be hard-pressed to prove the comment was made with serious intent, let alone against a specific person or group of people.

Your GED in law is showing.
 
2013-12-23 09:01:44 PM
This isn't a University of Kansas policy; it's a Kansas Board of Regents policy. Which is even worse because it means the policy applies to all public institutions in the state.
 
2013-12-23 09:02:37 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: This isn't a University of Kansas policy; it's a Kansas Board of Regents policy. Which is even worse because it means the policy applies to all public institutions in the state.


All public institutions of higher learning, that is.
 
2013-12-23 09:02:39 PM
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-23 09:04:27 PM

UsikFark: iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

"#NavyYardShooting The blood is on the hands of the #NRA. Next time, let it be YOUR sons and daughters. Shame on you. May God damn you."

Not really.


Read the statute yourself: http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_34/21-3419.html

I agree it wasn't intended as a threat; but, it could be perceived as one. And that's all that really counts .
 
2013-12-23 09:04:43 PM

iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.


No, threat implies that YOU are going to take some action. He just said that he hoped that it was THEIR kids that were butchered by an armed lunatic the next time it happened. Because we know that the NRA will do their darnedest to make sure that it does.

Example: I am going to come over and kick your ass!

That is a a threat.

Example: I hope you get hit by a truck!

Not a threat.
 
2013-12-23 09:05:21 PM

iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.


Love Lawrence... but yes, it's the biggest hippie, gay & vegan cesspool I've ever lived in... but at least there was a lot of hot women
 
2013-12-23 09:06:06 PM
Thats why I'm Foot Long Dong on twitter.
 
2013-12-23 09:06:47 PM

iheartscotch: UsikFark: iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

"#NavyYardShooting The blood is on the hands of the #NRA. Next time, let it be YOUR sons and daughters. Shame on you. May God damn you."

Not really.

Read the statute yourself: http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_34/21-3419.html

I agree it wasn't intended as a threat; but, it could be perceived as one. And that's all that really counts .


Only a pants shiatting idiot, or a person trying to push a certain agenda would even think of saying that was a threat or could even be perceived as a threat.
 
2013-12-23 09:07:03 PM

hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: Herr Professor Von InnocentLamb made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

Oh for the love of whatever deity it was, no it wasn't. You'd be hard-pressed to prove the comment was made with serious intent, let alone against a specific person or group of people.

Your GED in law is showing.


Read the statute:
http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_34/21-3419.htm l

I do agree it wasn't ment as a threat; I also agree that it'd probably never fly in court. But, it could be perceived as a threat.
 
2013-12-23 09:09:07 PM
I don't agree with half the crap that gets posted online these days, but I wish we'd stop going after each other for what is said.  It's a real cramp on honesty, and I'd rather know someone was honestly despicable than dishonestly virtuous.
 
2013-12-23 09:09:54 PM

baconbeard: hardinparamedic: Red Shirt Blues: Good to see that PC crap boomerang. You reap as you sow.....or something like that.

Cry more.

Institutions and employers have had social media policies since Myspace hit the internet in 2001.

He's not crying... he's gloating.


Quite correct sir. I finished my undergrad in 1988. Things were just beginning to heat up then. Fortunately my masters was in taxation so there was no time for silliness, just tons and tons of case law. It was around that time when the "Water Buffalo Incident" at Penn State occurred.
 
2013-12-23 09:10:27 PM

Serious Black: God, I really hate my alma mater right about now.



Oh, grow up already. The Regents are trying to limit their liability because regardless of what this coont thinks, tweets like Guth's are exactly the kind of things that mentally/emotionally unstable people latch onto and try to fulfill. The First Amendment does have limits you know, and being a professor shouldn't give a person  carte blanche to say whatever they want with no consequences.
.
 
2013-12-23 09:10:46 PM

iheartscotch: hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: Herr Professor Von InnocentLamb made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

Oh for the love of whatever deity it was, no it wasn't. You'd be hard-pressed to prove the comment was made with serious intent, let alone against a specific person or group of people.

Your GED in law is showing.

Read the statute:
http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_34/21-3419.htm l

I do agree it wasn't ment as a threat; I also agree that it'd probably never fly in court. But, it could be perceived as a threat.


"I love you" could be perceived as a threat...  'Could be perceived as' has become meaningless.

There's no limitation to the amount of sensitivity that one can have toward words uttered by another.  That should be evident in the weekly self-righteous lynch mobs that play out now in social media.
 
2013-12-23 09:11:21 PM

juvandy: I don't agree with half the crap that gets posted online these days, but I wish we'd stop going after each other for what is said.  It's a real cramp on honesty, and I'd rather know someone was honestly despicable than dishonestly virtuous.


But feeeeeeeeeeelings!
 
2013-12-23 09:12:27 PM

ongbok: iheartscotch: UsikFark: iheartscotch: cman: I think there is a big difference betwixt "die f&@@0t die" and "Obama's views on global warming are wrong".

Welllll; here's the thing... KU is in Lawrence. Lawrence is the libbyiest place that ever libbed. It wasn't an anti 'bama thing. The KU professor made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

"#NavyYardShooting The blood is on the hands of the #NRA. Next time, let it be YOUR sons and daughters. Shame on you. May God damn you."

Not really.

Read the statute yourself: http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_34/21-3419.html

I agree it wasn't intended as a threat; but, it could be perceived as one. And that's all that really counts .

Only a pants shiatting idiot, or a person trying to push a certain agenda would even think of saying that was a threat or could even be perceived as a threat.


I didn't say a reasonable person could or would perceive what the prof said as a threat. The law is clear on this point; if the victim feels threaten, that's all that really matters.
 
2013-12-23 09:12:53 PM
Below are the proposed reasons for discipline up to and including termination:
i. directly incites violence or other immediate breach of the peace; 
ii. when made pursuant to (i.e. in furtherance of) the employee's official duties, is 
contrary to the best interests of the University
iii. discloses without authority any confidential student information, protected 
health care information, personnel records, personal financial information, or 
confidential research data; or
iv. subject to the balancing analysis required by the following paragraph, impairs 
discipline by superiors
or harmony among co-workers, has a detrimental impact 
on close working relationships for which personal loyalty and confidence are 
necessary
, impedes the performance of the speaker's official duties, interferes 
with the regular operation of the university
, or otherwise adversely affects the 
university's ability to efficiently provide services.

All of the following would qualify:
Advising a prospective student of any option outside of going to this university
Not following any order or rules made by superior
Not getting along with a co-worker
Causing a rift between any other coworkers
Shows up late to class

Just admit it, this eliminates tenure completely.
 
2013-12-23 09:16:40 PM

iheartscotch: The law is clear on this point; if the victim feels threaten, that's all that really matters.


You're saying that there is no reasonableness test for what is perceived as a threat?

If someone waves and says 'good morning' I can have them (arrested / fired / given a restraining order / etc) because I'm a little nancy and perceive that as a threat?  I'd be interested in reading that law.
 
2013-12-23 09:17:04 PM

hardinparamedic: iheartscotch: Herr Professor Von InnocentLamb made what could be considered a criminal threat towards the NRA.

Oh for the love of whatever deity it was, no it wasn't. You'd be hard-pressed to prove the comment was made with serious intent, let alone against a specific person or group of people.

Your GED in law is showing.


Especially since you see the same sorts of posts on fark after a shooting.

 It's a mean thing to say (wishing death on someone's kids who are generally innocent of whatever is going on, is hardly the moral high road.) but last i checked no one here ever called the cops over it.
 
2013-12-23 09:17:33 PM

iheartscotch: it could be perceived as one.


No, he's not making as threat. He's saying it could happen in the normal course of events without saying he himself would be involved. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
 
2013-12-23 09:20:42 PM
How about everyone on both sides just stop acting like spiteful assholes for awhile?

Too much to ask, I know.
 
2013-12-23 09:22:29 PM

AllDevicesZeroDown: [31.media.tumblr.com image 320x220]


Hey, alt.
 
2013-12-23 09:22:44 PM
hmmm....publicly wishing death upon political opponents and their families in writing trumps tenure.   What was that about chickens coming home to roost?

If that's what it takes to get the commies to the left of Lenin (aka KU - Lawrence professors) to tone down their bad behavior....I ok with it.
 
2013-12-23 09:23:06 PM
We've spent the last week hearing that only the government can oppress your first amendment rights.

Turns out that if you publicly disagree with your employer's political or religious views they can fire you.
 
2013-12-23 09:23:54 PM
First off: it wasn't a threat. Let's ignore that.

However, tenure does not mean and never has just meant you cannot be fired. It protects academic freedom. Not Twitter freedom. Almost all institutions of higher education have clauses in their tenure policies that would give the administration and board grounds to terminate under acts of moral turpitude. It's a nebulous enough reason, whether this is fair or not, that gives the ability to terminate a tenured faculty in a case like this. Termination would still require a consensus among the administration and the board, President or Chancellor, etc. So it is rare but it can be done. Usually the administration confers heavily with their legal counsel to determine if they have a leg to stand on in court should they go through with it. I really don't care either way in this case, but I think it's important that people understand that tenure doesn't just mean unterminable employment or that it's protecting any employee from himself.
 
2013-12-23 09:25:51 PM
Remember, wanting pro-murder people to have empathy for their victims is threatening them.
 
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