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(Washington Post)   Good: Judge rules Ohio must acknowledge gay marriage. Bad: Only when someone dies   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 93
    More: Interesting, Judges' Rules, Ohio, federal judges  
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2928 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2013 at 3:00 PM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-23 01:38:27 PM
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-12-23 01:42:12 PM
Yeah, but til death do you part....or...
commonsenseatheism.com
 
2013-12-23 02:04:18 PM
Ruling is also "as applied", so it only holds for the plaintiff and can't be used more broadly.  However, the basis for the decision could be use in other cases.
 
2013-12-23 03:01:32 PM
Small steps... At least OH will have to acknowledge marriages performed in UT.
 
2013-12-23 03:06:59 PM
Mike DeWine can suck my ass.
 
2013-12-23 03:09:16 PM
I shot a man in Cleveland just to get married.
 
2013-12-23 03:10:33 PM
Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.
 
2013-12-23 03:10:34 PM
Only when someone dies

There are over 2.4 million Americans that die each year. That comes out to 6700 per day. Or about 280 per hour. Almost 5 Americans die every minute (on average). So basically there's always someone dying.
 
2013-12-23 03:12:50 PM
I'm running out of patience.  If two people want to get married it's no one else's goddamned business.  Christ, I'm sick of these idiot assholes trying to interfere with personal liberty.
 
2013-12-23 03:14:06 PM
The Browns are considering drafting traditional marriage as their QB of the future?
 
2013-12-23 03:15:10 PM

Herb Utsmelz: I'm running out of patience.  If two people want to get married it's no one else's goddamned business.  Christ, I'm sick of these idiot assholes trying to interfere with personal liberty.


Head of the class, my friend.

ovation.jpg
 
2013-12-23 03:15:48 PM
This was actually very astute on the Judge's part. By keeping the ruling narrow to the specific question before the court in the specific case, he strongly limits the appeals options and gives the SCOTUS strong justification for not hearing any appeal. 

Without a successful appeal, his decision, including his reasoning for the decision, will become precedent; and thus usable for future cases. Since his decision will have failed appeal, that will make using his reasoning in the future stronger.  

This aspect of how American jurisprudence works is often overlooked and under-appreciated. 

This was a very smart play and will go a long way to making gay marriage legal everywhere.
 
2013-12-23 03:15:52 PM

Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.


It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.
 
2013-12-23 03:16:30 PM
The other good news in TFA is that the judge's statement make it certain that there'll soon be broader challenges and they'll likely be successful.
 
2013-12-23 03:16:32 PM
erp - withstood appeal, not 'failed appeal.' D'oh!
 
2013-12-23 03:17:15 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Only when someone dies

There are over 2.4 million Americans that die each year. That comes out to 6700 per day. Or about 280 per hour. Almost 5 Americans die every minute (on average). So basically there's always someone dying.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-23 03:17:29 PM

Kope: This was actually very astute on the Judge's part. By keeping the ruling narrow to the specific question before the court in the specific case, he strongly limits the appeals options and gives the SCOTUS strong justification for not hearing any appeal. 

Without a successful appeal, his decision, including his reasoning for the decision, will become precedent; and thus usable for future cases. Since his decision will have failed appeal, that will make using his reasoning in the future stronger.  

This aspect of how American jurisprudence works is often overlooked and under-appreciated. 

This was a very smart play and will go a long way to making gay marriage legal everywhere.


Wow, nice analysis man!

/no snark
 
2013-12-23 03:19:21 PM
Dear AG Mike DeWine:
Please stop wasting my tax dollars on your homophobic crusade.  Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote.  (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)  Numerous recent polls have shown that trend has reversed.  A majority of Ohioans now feel that law should be repealed.  If you're personally against gay marriage - that's fine and dandy.  But stop claiming your fighting for the beliefs of your state.  We (the majority of us, anyway) don't feel that way.
Sincerely,
SuburbanGuy

/NE Ohio resident
//It's a whole different country compared to some parts of the state
 
2013-12-23 03:22:59 PM
See? Gay marriage leads to necrophilia. IT'S IN THE BIBLE COURT'S JURISPRUDENCE, LIBULATARDOLOLOS!
 
2013-12-23 03:23:58 PM

Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.


Oh.  Lol?
 
2013-12-23 03:25:47 PM

Wook: It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.


It's not a "Gay cause". It's wanting equality for all Americans. Equal justice under the law. It's one of the most fundamentally American concepts that exists. It's disgusting that the party that wraps itself in the flag is trying so hard to deny fundamental rights to ANY American.
 
2013-12-23 03:30:02 PM

Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.


It's sad that folks on the right wing of the political spectrum hate freedom and have abandoned the teachings of Jesus in favor of the prideful blasphemies of Satan. If they hadn't they wouldn't fight tooth and nail to try and interpose themselves in other people's loving unions - and ban them.

I'm no Democrat and I'm no christian but even I can appreciate how sad it is.
 
2013-12-23 03:33:13 PM
Perhaps this is the same way WI will have to go about starting the repeal attempt of our own constitutional amendment.  *sigh* until we get rid of that loser Walker, there's probably nothing that can be done.
 
2013-12-23 03:33:49 PM

mongbiohazard: Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.

It's sad that folks on the right wing of the political spectrum hate freedom and have abandoned the teachings of Jesus in favor of the prideful blasphemies of Satan. If they hadn't they wouldn't fight tooth and nail to try and interpose themselves in other people's loving unions - and ban them.

I'm no Democrat and I'm no christian but even I can appreciate how sad it is.


There was an article linked here a couple of years ago that said, "The religion of the Religious Right doesn't need a God, it only needs a Devil."
 
2013-12-23 03:33:50 PM

Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part. And most of the amendments, except the second, of course. Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.


First off you are completely wrong. Ohio is a dichotomy for the DNC. The people here who vote democrat also do against same sex marriage on the same ballot. Out in the boonies, people with their conservative leaning tend to vote how one may expect on national issues, but proportionally the support for same sex marriage is just as high as the 'burbs or cities. This suggests that while democrats tow the Union line on national issues such as POTUS; they are still a bunch of bigots at heart on other issues. Anecdotally, you would have your head spin if you went to a bar in Blue districts, you'll never hear the 'n' word more in one day. You should have seen how bad it was when they HAD to pick between a black man and a woman.....
/voting records are online you prejudice prick
 
2013-12-23 03:33:53 PM
Utah has you beat, Ohio.  UTAH!
 
2013-12-23 03:39:31 PM

Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.


Shouldn't every US citizen? Even if they don't agree with the lifestyle, this is a matter of human rights being granted to a select group of US Citizens that are outright denied to other US Citizens because of bigotry. Religious sponsored bigotry at that. You could claim that marriage is a sacred institution for your religion, and that's all well and good, you don't have to marry a gay person if you don't want to, or if your religion prohibits you to. You don't have to wed two gay people in your private church if you don't want to or your religion prohibits you. You don't even have to host a gay wedding in your church if you don't want to or if your religion prohibits you. But to actively seek laws that are a reflection of Jim Crow laws, prohibiting any US Citizen the same rights as any other US citizen is wrong, base, and degrading. Marriage in a church is different than marriage in the government. Marriage in the government is a rights issue, next of kin, insurance, wills, hospitalization, taxation, etc. And in no way does any form of governmental marriage impede or damage religious marriage. Your only leg to stand on is weak, gay marriage is not AGAINST your religion, it's PROHIBITED by your religion. There's a difference. You don't get to wear your stars and stripes hats, and american flag windbreakers, waving your little mini US flag at a big rally saying things like "They are throwin' away ar constitution!" and then turn right around and deny another US citizen the same rights you have.
 
2013-12-23 03:42:34 PM

CeroX: You don't get to wear your stars and stripes hats, and american flag windbreakers, waving your little mini US flag at a big rally saying things like "They are throwin' away ar constitution!" and then turn right around and deny another US citizen the same rights you have.


Didn't Mark Twain essentially call that Americanism? Crowing loudly about freedom while doing all you can to keep others beneath you (or words to that effect)?
 
2013-12-23 03:43:05 PM

suburbanguy: Dear AG Mike DeWine:
Please stop wasting my tax dollars on your homophobic crusade.  Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote.  (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)  Numerous recent polls have shown that trend has reversed.  A majority of Ohioans now feel that law should be repealed.  If you're personally against gay marriage - that's fine and dandy.  But stop claiming your fighting for the beliefs of your state.  We (the majority of us, anyway) don't feel that way.
Sincerely,
SuburbanGuy

/NE Ohio resident
//It's a whole different country compared to some parts of the state


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr3ftmvO7Oc
 
2013-12-23 03:44:37 PM

suburbanguy: Dear AG Mike DeWine:
Please stop wasting my tax dollars on your homophobic crusade.  Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote.  (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)  Numerous recent polls have shown that trend has reversed.  A majority of Ohioans now feel that law should be repealed.  If you're personally against gay marriage - that's fine and dandy.  But stop claiming your fighting for the beliefs of your state.  We (the majority of us, anyway) don't feel that way.
Sincerely,
SuburbanGuy

/NE Ohio resident
//It's a whole different country compared to some parts of the state


Eh, we have our own unique pockets of insanity too, though, re: Barber-tucky and Norton.
 
2013-12-23 03:46:21 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-23 03:47:04 PM

CeroX: Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.

Shouldn't every US citizen? Even if they don't agree with the lifestyle, this is a matter of human rights being granted to a select group of US Citizens that are outright denied to other US Citizens because of bigotry. Religious sponsored bigotry at that. You could claim that marriage is a sacred institution for your religion, and that's all well and good, you don't have to marry a gay person if you don't want to, or if your religion prohibits you to. You don't have to wed two gay people in your private church if you don't want to or your religion prohibits you. You don't even have to host a gay wedding in your church if you don't want to or if your religion prohibits you. But to actively seek laws that are a reflection of Jim Crow laws, prohibiting any US Citizen the same rights as any other US citizen is wrong, base, and degrading. Marriage in a church is different than marriage in the government. Marriage in the government is a rights issue, next of kin, insurance, wills, hospitalization, taxation, etc. And in no way does any form of governmental marriage impede or damage religious marriage. Your only leg to stand on is weak, gay marriage is not AGAINST your religion, it's PROHIBITED by your religion. There's a difference. You don't get to wear your stars and stripes hats, and american flag windbreakers, waving your little mini US flag at a big rally saying things like "They are throwin' away ar constitution!" and then turn right around and deny another US citizen the same rights you have.


Short answer no.  I find most people to be physically soft and they mostly regurgitate the crap they were force fed in school.  I'm not gay and I wont get behind their cause nor let them get behind me.  You basically lost me after the 2nd sentence.
 
2013-12-23 03:48:17 PM

CeroX: But to actively seek laws that are a reflection of Jim Crow laws, prohibiting any US Citizen the same rights as any other US citizen is wrong, base, and degrading.


Affirmative action, no child left behind, protected classes, etc. are okay though?  Don't those also amount to nothing more than prohibiting a US citizen the same rights as any other US citizen?  Interesting how people will stand behind things that support their cause.  We can't be selectively equal and completely equal simultaneously.
 
2013-12-23 03:48:56 PM
 
2013-12-23 03:49:06 PM

suburbanguy: Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote. (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)


You and me both.
 
2013-12-23 03:49:27 PM

Kope: This was actually very astute on the Judge's part. By keeping the ruling narrow to the specific question before the court in the specific case, he strongly limits the appeals options and gives the SCOTUS strong justification for not hearing any appeal. 

Without a successful appeal, his decision, including his reasoning for the decision, will become precedent; and thus usable for future cases. Since his decision will have failed appeal, that will make using his reasoning in the future stronger.  

This aspect of how American jurisprudence works is often overlooked and under-appreciated. 

This was a very smart play and will go a long way to making gay marriage legal everywhere.


That doesn't really make sense.

When someone brings a more general case this precident will be cited and make it more likely that the plaintiffs will win the initial case. Getting to the same position as if he had struck down the law entirely in the current case.

The precedent will be in no way be binding on the appeals court or (if it went that far) Supreme Court.

No matter whether it is this case or the next, it will have to go through higher courts and they will have as much authority to ignore his precendent as they would have to overturn it.
 
2013-12-23 03:52:58 PM

OregonVet: suburbanguy: Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote. (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)

You and me both.


Ditto from Michigan.  What a stupid day that was.
 
2013-12-23 03:53:26 PM

Wook: CeroX: Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.

Shouldn't every US citizen? Even if they don't agree with the lifestyle, this is a matter of human rights being granted to a select group of US Citizens that are outright denied to other US Citizens because of bigotry. Religious sponsored bigotry at that. You could claim that marriage is a sacred institution for your religion, and that's all well and good, you don't have to marry a gay person if you don't want to, or if your religion prohibits you to. You don't have to wed two gay people in your private church if you don't want to or your religion prohibits you. You don't even have to host a gay wedding in your church if you don't want to or if your religion prohibits you. But to actively seek laws that are a reflection of Jim Crow laws, prohibiting any US Citizen the same rights as any other US citizen is wrong, base, and degrading. Marriage in a church is different than marriage in the government. Marriage in the government is a rights issue, next of kin, insurance, wills, hospitalization, taxation, etc. And in no way does any form of governmental marriage impede or damage religious marriage. Your only leg to stand on is weak, gay marriage is not AGAINST your religion, it's PROHIBITED by your religion. There's a difference. You don't get to wear your stars and stripes hats, and american flag windbreakers, waving your little mini US flag at a big rally saying things like "They are throwin' away ar constitution!" and then turn right around and deny another US citizen the same rights you have.

Short answer no.  I find most people to be physically soft and they mostly regurgitate the crap they were force fed in school.  I'm not gay and I wont get behind their cause nor let them get behind me.  You basically lost me after the 2nd sentence.


In other words, "fark everyone other than me"?

"Those blacks are enslaved? Why should I care? I am white"

"Those Jews are being slaughtered? Why should I care? I am Christian"
 
2013-12-23 03:53:55 PM

Herb Utsmelz: I'm running out of patience.  If two people want to get married it's no one else's goddamned business.  Christ, I'm sick of these idiot assholes trying to interfere with personal liberty.


My relationship is nobody's business but mine, I therefore demand official recognition by all levels of government, benefits, and tax incentives.
 
2013-12-23 03:57:48 PM

dywed88: Wook: CeroX: Wook: Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.

It's even funnier that Democrats are so eager to embrace the Gay cause.

Shouldn't every US citizen? Even if they don't agree with the lifestyle, this is a matter of human rights being granted to a select group of US Citizens that are outright denied to other US Citizens because of bigotry. Religious sponsored bigotry at that. You could claim that marriage is a sacred institution for your religion, and that's all well and good, you don't have to marry a gay person if you don't want to, or if your religion prohibits you to. You don't have to wed two gay people in your private church if you don't want to or your religion prohibits you. You don't even have to host a gay wedding in your church if you don't want to or if your religion prohibits you. But to actively seek laws that are a reflection of Jim Crow laws, prohibiting any US Citizen the same rights as any other US citizen is wrong, base, and degrading. Marriage in a church is different than marriage in the government. Marriage in the government is a rights issue, next of kin, insurance, wills, hospitalization, taxation, etc. And in no way does any form of governmental marriage impede or damage religious marriage. Your only leg to stand on is weak, gay marriage is not AGAINST your religion, it's PROHIBITED by your religion. There's a difference. You don't get to wear your stars and stripes hats, and american flag windbreakers, waving your little mini US flag at a big rally saying things like "They are throwin' away ar constitution!" and then turn right around and deny another US citizen the same rights you have.

Short answer no.  I find most people to be phy ...



www.history.ucsb.edu
 
2013-12-23 03:58:44 PM
There was an attorney named "Coontz" and nobody noticed?
 
2013-12-23 03:59:23 PM

farm machine: CeroX: But to actively seek laws that are a reflection of Jim Crow laws, prohibiting any US Citizen the same rights as any other US citizen is wrong, base, and degrading.

Affirmative action, no child left behind, protected classes, etc. are okay though?  Don't those also amount to nothing more than prohibiting a US citizen the same rights as any other US citizen?  Interesting how people will stand behind things that support their cause.  We can't be selectively equal and completely equal simultaneously.


No, they don't amount to that, and either you know that and are trolling, or you are irredeemably stupid.
 
2013-12-23 04:01:38 PM

Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.


They like part of the first as long as it involves giving their religion a priveliged status.
 
2013-12-23 04:01:39 PM

sweater_pups: There was an attorney named "Coontz" and nobody noticed?


We all decided that such humor was beneath us. Thanks for lowering the level of discourse, sweater pups.
 
2013-12-23 04:07:52 PM

dg41: suburbanguy: Dear AG Mike DeWine:
Please stop wasting my tax dollars on your homophobic crusade.  Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote.  (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)  Numerous recent polls have shown that trend has reversed.  A majority of Ohioans now feel that law should be repealed.  If you're personally against gay marriage - that's fine and dandy.  But stop claiming your fighting for the beliefs of your state.  We (the majority of us, anyway) don't feel that way.
Sincerely,
SuburbanGuy

/NE Ohio resident
//It's a whole different country compared to some parts of the state

Eh, we have our own unique pockets of insanity too, though, re: Barber-tucky and Norton.


Ha!  I live in Wadsworth.
 
2013-12-23 04:08:04 PM
Homosexual marriage is pursued as a means to an end. Homosexuals, by an exceedingly large margin, do not wish to get married or to form civil unions. Rather, they want to be accepted as normal. Their hope is that public approval of homosexuality will follow the legal establishment of homosexual marriages.
 
2013-12-23 04:09:35 PM

Ned Stark: Herb Utsmelz: I'm running out of patience.  If two people want to get married it's no one else's goddamned business.  Christ, I'm sick of these idiot assholes trying to interfere with personal liberty.

My relationship is nobody's business but mine, I therefore demand official recognition by all levels of government, benefits, and tax incentives.


If your relationship truly were "nobody's business but mine", there wouldn't be those benefits in the first place (for heteros or homos), nor would you turn into an unbelievably attention-whoring asshead for the duration of your engagement/wedding-plan period (including, usually, many references to god supporting/blessing that union), nor would you wear a piece of jewelry signifying the relationship, nor would you keep pictures of your spouse anywhere (let alone post them in places of prominence), nor would any "attacks" on this institution of marriage that no one seems to care about be perceived as the single greatest threat facing America today.

So either it's of no importance and the government is free to rescind each and every benefit of marriage from everyone (and good luck sorting all of that out through contract law); or let Adam and Steve sign the damned papers and move on.

Actually, even if it's no one's business, you should still let them sign the papers. Because even the closest reading of the Constitution yields no support for the right to be an unmitigated coonthammer, but it does contain some notional references to equal protection under the law.
 
2013-12-23 04:11:31 PM

OregonVet: suburbanguy: Yes, a decade ago Ohioans voted to ban gay marriage with an almost 2:1 vote. (I unsuccessfully voted against it.)

You and me both.


And a horribly written piece of crap it is too.  I successfully defended a couple of real scumbags on domestic violence cases based on that lousy thing.
 
2013-12-23 04:13:56 PM

Dr Dreidel: Didn't Mark Twain essentially call that Americanism? Crowing loudly about freedom while doing all you can to keep others beneath you (or words to that effect)?


I remember George Carlin (rip) once stating that American culture was fundamentally strange and weird because it was founded by "slaveowners who wanted to be free." The man had a point.
 
2013-12-23 04:16:18 PM

Dr. Whoof: Funny how Republicans love the Constitution...except that pesky "full faith and credit" part.  And most of the amendments, except the second, of course.  Oh and that whole thing about a Supreme Court...that's just wacky and clearly not supposed to be there...and..you know what, maybe it would be easier listing what they do like.


Concealed carry licenses apply in your world too?
 
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