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(Fox 31 Denver)   Now showing: "NSA Spying: Origins"   (kdvr.com) divider line 36
    More: Interesting, Obama, Declassified Documents, NSA, Michael McConnell, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, Director of National Intelligence, operational planning, FISA Court  
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877 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Dec 2013 at 9:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-23 09:19:37 AM  
Who'd a' thunk it?  A President...Commander in Chief of the military, would want more powers?  Gee...color me surprised.

Presidents are often measured against metrics over which they have no control.  So it's a pretty normal thing for them to want more control over things they don't currently have control over.  How many times has the right been wailing and screaming that the economy sucks because 'gas prices' or the price of gold or something like that....
 
2013-12-23 09:20:14 AM  
Who didn't know this?
 
2013-12-23 09:24:34 AM  

Notabunny: Who didn't know this?


People who watch FOX. Presudent Bush was defending freedoms and fighting terromists but Obama started leaking information to lose us respect and hurt AMURCA through Eddie "Ruskie" Snowden through his secret libberal-fascio-communo-socialits super-muslim conspiracy machine. He carries it with him on his magical time machine trips.
 
2013-12-23 09:27:05 AM  

Notabunny: Who didn't know this?


There's always a difference between "assuming what you think is true" and "confirmation that it really is true". Same applies for the "What? The NSA is spying on *us* and not just terrorists? Fainting couch, fetch it!"

It's no longer a matter of shocking us with something we never thought of, we have the internet, we can theorize any crazy scheme now. No, what is shocking is that those crazy thoughts are confirmed as true.

So this is news, in that we've never had this confirmed before, regardless of whether or not we've actually thought this was really going on.
 
2013-12-23 09:37:00 AM  
You can blame Bush, or you can try to blame Obama

 But you should've freakin' learned from your daddy or your momma

 Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, you'll lose.

 Some fights just ain't fair
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-23 09:49:22 AM  
somedude210:

So this is news, in that we've never had this confirmed before, regardless of whether or not we've actually thought this was really going on.

it's been conformed for people who didn't know much about the subject.  The FISA court and it's wiretap warrants have been around for decades.
 
2013-12-23 09:55:37 AM  
The question is not who started it, the question is who will have the balls to curtail it. So far, Obama has only tacitly attempted to do so, whether by choice or because the NSA didn't really reveal completely what they do to even him.

Not that i'm cynical, but I sincerely doubt ANY covert organization tells the boss exactly what they're up to, just because in spookland, they can't stop what they don't know is going on.

Same with the rest of government: administrations change, but the underpinnings and agendas of those who remain in the invisible drone positions just marches on.
 
2013-12-23 09:58:46 AM  
There's corruption in the White House.....bu, bu, bu, bu but Bush
We're now arming the Taliban.....bu, bu, bu, bu but Bush
Spying on Americans......bu, bu, bu, bu, but Bush
Obamacare's a failure ......bu, bu, bu, bu, but Bush
 
2013-12-23 09:59:48 AM  

somedude210: Notabunny: Who didn't know this?

There's always a difference between "assuming what you think is true" and "confirmation that it really is true". Same applies for the "What? The NSA is spying on *us* and not just terrorists? Fainting couch, fetch it!"

It's no longer a matter of shocking us with something we never thought of, we have the internet, we can theorize any crazy scheme now. No, what is shocking is that those crazy thoughts are confirmed as true.

So this is news, in that we've never had this confirmed before, regardless of whether or not we've actually thought this was really going on.


It's also difficulty in telling the difference between what the NSA is doing now, what is coming to light now, and what had already been proven (like the warrantless wiretaps that Bush declared "legal because retroactive warrants take too long.")  I mean hell, isn't most of what the NSA is doing now "legal" by virtue of unconstitutional laws that congress was only too happy to pass?
 
2013-12-23 10:02:51 AM  
HA HA HA Nothing Sticks
eaglerising.com
 
2013-12-23 10:12:27 AM  

Kit Fister: The question is not who started it, the question is who will have the balls to curtail it. So far, Obama has only tacitly attempted to do so, whether by choice or because the NSA didn't really reveal completely what they do to even him.

Not that i'm cynical, but I sincerely doubt ANY covert organization tells the boss exactly what they're up to, just because in spookland, they can't stop what they don't know is going on.

Same with the rest of government: administrations change, but the underpinnings and agendas of those who remain in the invisible drone positions just marches on.


Considering Obama went from "We can get security without compromising privacy" before it was revealed to "You can't have both security and privacy" after it was revealed, I would imagine Obama was just giving lip service and hoping no one would find out he really expanded it.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZf8_Cd6H9k

Yes, your guy does bad stuff, too.
 
2013-12-23 10:17:38 AM  

TheBigJerk: I mean hell, isn't most of what the NSA is doing now "legal" by virtue of unconstitutional laws that congress was only too happy to pass?


pretty much

karnal: There's corruption in the White House.....bu, bu, bu, bu but Bush


You can argue that this is a problem in every administration, we're not singling out Bush

karnal: We're now arming the Taliban.....bu, bu, bu, bu but Bush


See: Reagan

karnal: Spying on Americans......bu, bu, bu, bu, but Bush


Been around since J. Edgar Hoover took command of the FBI, not started under Bush. What started under Bush was even more clandestine practices and more severe unconstitutional surveillance, Obama has kept that going and arguably expanded it a bit more.

karnal: Obamacare's a failure ......bu, bu, bu, bu, but Bush


1. That's not even in the article. 2. No one has ever made that argument. 3. Obamacare isn't a failure.
 
2013-12-23 10:41:07 AM  

somedude210: TheBigJerk: I mean hell, isn't most of what the NSA is doing now "legal" by virtue of unconstitutional laws that congress was only too happy to pass?

pretty much

karnal: There's corruption in the White House.....bu, bu, bu, bu but Bush

You can argue that this is a problem in every administration, we're not singling out Bush

karnal: We're now arming the Taliban.....bu, bu, bu, bu but Bush

See: Reagan

karnal: Spying on Americans......bu, bu, bu, bu, but Bush

Been around since J. Edgar Hoover took command of the FBI, not started under Bush. What started under Bush was even more clandestine practices and more severe unconstitutional surveillance, Obama has kept that going and arguably expanded it a bit more.

karnal: Obamacare's a failure ......bu, bu, bu, bu, but Bush

1. That's not even in the article. 2. No one has ever made that argument. 3. Obamacare isn't a failure.


OK,....I'll concede that you do look cute in your little Obama Cheerleader outfit if you will conceed that the brown on your nose is shiat.
 
2013-12-23 10:48:27 AM  

karnal: OK,....I'll concede that you do look cute in your little Obama Cheerleader outfit if you will conceed that the brown on your nose is shiat.


....you understand I pretty much defended Bush in the whole thing, right? But nice job trying to prove me wrong or taking issue with any specific thing.
 
2013-12-23 10:54:46 AM  

somedude210: karnal: OK,....I'll concede that you do look cute in your little Obama Cheerleader outfit if you will conceed that the brown on your nose is shiat.

....you understand I pretty much defended Bush in the whole thing, right? But nice job trying to prove me wrong or taking issue with any specific thing.


Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from?  Are they in the comments of tfa?
 
2013-12-23 10:59:37 AM  

TheGogmagog: Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from? Are they in the comments of tfa?


oh shush, I like trying to get the trolls to defend themselves. Because unlike you, the lurkers have to read his crap. Better to address the crap then to ignore it and say that it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood
 
2013-12-23 11:19:24 AM  

somedude210: TheGogmagog: Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from? Are they in the comments of tfa?

oh shush, I like trying to get the trolls to defend themselves. Because unlike you, the lurkers have to read his crap. Better to address the crap then to ignore it and say that it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood


I'm leaving this under your tree this year......you can thank me later.
i1355.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-23 11:25:10 AM  

karnal: I'm leaving this under your tree this year......you can thank me later.
i1355.photobucket.com


oh please, I know you're a troll. Most regulars here know that you're a troll (and a pretty terrible one at that), but those that aren't regulars, or aren't as well-versed in reality may not be able to make that distinction. So that's why I do this.
 
2013-12-23 11:34:23 AM  

somedude210: TheGogmagog: Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from? Are they in the comments of tfa?

oh shush, I like trying to get the trolls to defend themselves. Because unlike you, the lurkers have to read his crap. Better to address the crap then to ignore it and say that it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood


I thought you still got a comment that someone was on ignore.  I don't use it often and forgot about it.  I usually just put them in darker shades of grey so I can brace myself for the derp, and/or give them a chance for redemption.  This one must have tried my patience or said something redeemable in the past.
 
2013-12-23 11:36:32 AM  

TheGogmagog: I thought you still got a comment that someone was on ignore. I don't use it often and forgot about it. I usually just put them in darker shades of grey so I can brace myself for the derp, and/or give them a chance for redemption. This one must have tried my patience or said something redeemable in the past.


It happens, he's a pretty good idiot
 
2013-12-23 11:39:36 AM  

TheGogmagog: somedude210: TheGogmagog: Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from? Are they in the comments of tfa?

oh shush, I like trying to get the trolls to defend themselves. Because unlike you, the lurkers have to read his crap. Better to address the crap then to ignore it and say that it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood

I thought you still got a comment that someone was on ignore.  I don't use it often and forgot about it.  I usually just put them in darker shades of grey so I can brace myself for the derp, and/or give them a chance for redemption.  This one must have tried my patience or said something redeemable in the past.


I say ignore is for pussies (except for NSFW reasons or something). If you can't tolerate a view other than your own, you are a gigantic pussy
 
2013-12-23 11:52:35 AM  

somedude210: TheGogmagog: I thought you still got a comment that someone was on ignore. I don't use it often and forgot about it. I usually just put them in darker shades of grey so I can brace myself for the derp, and/or give them a chance for redemption. This one must have tried my patience or said something redeemable in the past.

It happens, he's a pretty good idiot


Easy to silence the opposition if you close your mind
 
2013-12-23 12:11:37 PM  

karnal: Easy to silence the opposition if you close your mind


Stop looking in the mirror then
 
2013-12-23 12:17:46 PM  
Articles Headline: started under bush, grew under obama

Martial law can only grow, you dipshiat. Bush the junior made it so the whole program was unaccountable and in secrecy. Obama instead of going "what is this strange program that keeps sucking up money.... Oh now you tell me, you traitors to the Constitution. f*ck. Well got to reauthorize martial law or 100,000 security guard jobs will disappear if the constitution is upheld. Along with the confederate states losing tens of thousands of 'military industrial complex' jobs as well"

/Bush jr and Dick Cheney still wanted for crimes against humanity.
//Won't you help capture these desperadoes?
 
2013-12-23 12:45:58 PM  

sheep snorter: Articles Headline: started under bush, grew under obama

Martial law can only grow, you dipshiat. Bush the junior made it so the whole program was unaccountable and in secrecy. Obama instead of going "what is this strange program that keeps sucking up money.... Oh now you tell me, you traitors to the Constitution. f*ck. Well got to reauthorize martial law or 100,000 security guard jobs will disappear if the constitution is upheld. Along with the confederate states losing tens of thousands of 'military industrial complex' jobs as well"

/Bush jr and Dick Cheney still wanted for crimes against humanity.
//Won't you help capture these desperadoes?


Yeah, keep blaming Bush for it growing under Obama...
 
2013-12-23 01:38:13 PM  

somedude210: karnal: Easy to silence the opposition if you close your mind

Stop looking in the mirror then



This is the image I have of you saying that


reducetheburden.org
 
2013-12-23 01:50:41 PM  

karnal: somedude210: karnal: Easy to silence the opposition if you close your mind

Stop looking in the mirror then


This is the image I have of you saying that


[reducetheburden.org image 300x180]


Aww, that's an adorable picture of you. How old were you then? 30?
 
2013-12-23 02:18:25 PM  

machoprogrammer: TheGogmagog: somedude210: TheGogmagog: Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from? Are they in the comments of tfa?

oh shush, I like trying to get the trolls to defend themselves. Because unlike you, the lurkers have to read his crap. Better to address the crap then to ignore it and say that it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood

I thought you still got a comment that someone was on ignore.  I don't use it often and forgot about it.  I usually just put them in darker shades of grey so I can brace myself for the derp, and/or give them a chance for redemption.  This one must have tried my patience or said something redeemable in the past.

I say ignore is for pussies (except for NSFW reasons or something). If you can't tolerate a view other than your own, you are a gigantic pussy


I partially agree with you there but I do use the ignore feature sparingly myself.  I am not afraid of other people opinions and I even like to debate them.  My ignore features is for very special people who have made clear that they will make no attempt to debate anything in good faith nor generally bother to actually read my replies before telling me my replies are wrong.  Such people are a waste of my time and so ignoring them saves me - not from their opinions - but from wasting my time again in attempting to debate them.  Even then I have very few on my list.  I prefer to just "favorite" most people so I can just add a color and notes.

As for people who have giant ignore lists, I would agree with your assessment and add that they are also probably intellectually weak as well.

Now we all need to demand to Drew to have an enemies list as well.  It can make me feel dirty adding some people to my "favorites" list.  Facebook should also have this - if they did I might consider signing up finally.
 
2013-12-23 03:12:32 PM  

bk3k: machoprogrammer: TheGogmagog: somedude210: TheGogmagog: Where are these karnal posts you are quoting from? Are they in the comments of tfa?

oh shush, I like trying to get the trolls to defend themselves. Because unlike you, the lurkers have to read his crap. Better to address the crap then to ignore it and say that it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood

I thought you still got a comment that someone was on ignore.  I don't use it often and forgot about it.  I usually just put them in darker shades of grey so I can brace myself for the derp, and/or give them a chance for redemption.  This one must have tried my patience or said something redeemable in the past.

I say ignore is for pussies (except for NSFW reasons or something). If you can't tolerate a view other than your own, you are a gigantic pussy

I partially agree with you there but I do use the ignore feature sparingly myself.  I am not afraid of other people opinions and I even like to debate them.  My ignore features is for very special people who have made clear that they will make no attempt to debate anything in good faith nor generally bother to actually read my replies before telling me my replies are wrong.  Such people are a waste of my time and so ignoring them saves me - not from their opinions - but from wasting my time again in attempting to debate them.  Even then I have very few on my list.  I prefer to just "favorite" most people so I can just add a color and notes.

As for people who have giant ignore lists, I would agree with your assessment and add that they are also probably intellectually weak as well.

Now we all need to demand to Drew to have an enemies list as well.  It can make me feel dirty adding some people to my "favorites" list.  Facebook should also have this - if they did I might consider signing up finally.


Fair enough, that is a valid point.

Enemies list? We could all be like Richard Nixon!
 
2013-12-23 03:19:45 PM  

Kit Fister: Not that i'm cynical, but I sincerely doubt ANY covert organization tells the boss exactly what they're up to, just because in spookland, they can't stop what they don't know is going on.


It's starting to seem like the NSA is almost independent of the rest of the government. The get a pile of money every year, but there doesn't really seem to be any oversight. J. Edgar Hoover's FBI did pretty much what ever Hoover wanted them to do, but the NSA makes Hoover's FBI look like a kid brother with a Junior Sherlock Detecting Kit. It seems like the government reports to them instead of the other way around. The disturbing thing is that these complaints about the NSA have been going on for decades, and they only difference is that they now have more sophisticated tools and an even larger budget.
 
2013-12-23 04:57:33 PM  
Paranoia in the USA ramped up to the max ?

Exactly what the terrorists want

Everyone knows the USA hasn't won a war in almost 60 years.
 
2013-12-23 06:07:10 PM  

DeaH: Kit Fister: Not that i'm cynical, but I sincerely doubt ANY covert organization tells the boss exactly what they're up to, just because in spookland, they can't stop what they don't know is going on.

It's starting to seem like the NSA is almost independent of the rest of the government. The get a pile of money every year, but there doesn't really seem to be any oversight. J. Edgar Hoover's FBI did pretty much what ever Hoover wanted them to do, but the NSA makes Hoover's FBI look like a kid brother with a Junior Sherlock Detecting Kit. It seems like the government reports to them instead of the other way around. The disturbing thing is that these complaints about the NSA have been going on for decades, and they only difference is that they now have more sophisticated tools and an even larger budget.


That probably IS how things are.  I mean think about it.  Politician starts getting uppity with the NSA so the NSA looks through their "metadata" (which in reality is far more than metadata) and finds the inevitable skeleton in the closet.  This is why no one will stop them or even restrain them a little.
 
2013-12-23 08:30:11 PM  

Notabunny: Who didn't know this?


I didn't.  This is news to me.
 
2013-12-23 08:34:59 PM  

Thunderbox: Paranoia in the USA ramped up to the max ?

Exactly what the terrorists want

Everyone knows the USA hasn't won a war in almost 60 years.


The US hasn't declared a war in almost 60 years.
 
2013-12-23 10:08:00 PM  

somedude210: Notabunny: Who didn't know this?

There's always a difference between "assuming what you think is true" and "confirmation that it really is true". Same applies for the "What? The NSA is spying on *us* and not just terrorists? Fainting couch, fetch it!"

It's no longer a matter of shocking us with something we never thought of, we have the internet, we can theorize any crazy scheme now. No, what is shocking is that those crazy thoughts are confirmed as true.

So this is news, in that we've never had this confirmed before, regardless of whether or not we've actually thought this was really going on.


Uh, this isn't news in that it's been confirmed for decades. Where the hell have you been? I read about the NSA's daily intercepts as far back as Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" and that was in 1996. He acknowledged that NSA was out there listening to US allies and enemies communications with ears agape. As far as domestic spying, anyone who heard about Echelon in the early 90's, or COINTELPRO before that, KNEW that the FBI was doing domestic spying. It's not even a question of "confirmation". It's just confirmation YOU heard about.

It has not yet ceased to amaze me that your attitude still prevails, as if nobody had ever before acknowledged that government agencies are spying on US citizens, with proof, a dozen times before; and yet this new info release is treated as "Finally! The proof we've needed all this time! Now we have evidence of our suspicions!"
 
2013-12-24 10:11:53 AM  
Will just keep posting this up for those challenged by any history that strays beyond the confines of ideology and the previous 24hr. news cycle:

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/book3/pdf/churchb3_ 10 _nsa.pdf
 
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