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(KOAT Albuquerque)   New Mexico Supreme Court: Legalizing same-sex marriage affects everyone in the state. Navajo Nation: How?   (koat.com) divider line 93
    More: Interesting, Navajo Nation, New Mexico Supreme Court, New Mexico, same-sex marriages, indigenous land rights  
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8617 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Dec 2013 at 7:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



93 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-21 06:34:41 PM  
Sovereignty, biatches
 
2013-12-21 07:10:54 PM  

cman: Sovereignty, biatches


Exactly. While I support same sex marriage, I support respecting what's left of Native American autonomy as well.
 
2013-12-21 07:12:15 PM  
This is really gonna disappoint Cheif Packs Fudge
 
2013-12-21 07:12:57 PM  
That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited"

They said same-sex marriage twice...
 
2013-12-21 07:14:09 PM  

stratagos: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

Exactly. While I support same sex marriage, I support respecting what's left of Native American autonomy as well.


Both of this.
 
2013-12-21 07:15:23 PM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-12-21 07:17:29 PM  
From a Realpolitik stance, their sovereignty stretches as far as Congress and the Federal Courts let them. I somehow seriously doubt Tribal Sovereignty would allow them to ignore certain issues, such as the 13th Amendment. Heck, given that the tribal nations own judicial system is an extension of the U.S. Judicial System, imposed on them by Congress, their sovereignty is as illusory as Ted Cruz's sense of shame.
 
2013-12-21 07:17:59 PM  
The best part about gay Indians is that they use every part of the butthole, no part goes to waste
 
2013-12-21 07:19:28 PM  

fusillade762: That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited"

They said same-sex marriage twice...


They really like same-sex marriage.
 
2013-12-21 07:21:36 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The best part about gay Indians is that they use every part of the butthole, no part goes to waste


Fascinating culture.
 
2013-12-21 07:22:46 PM  
So, this only applies in New Mexico, and not in the United States? So what then.
 
2013-12-21 07:23:26 PM  
assets.yala.fm
 
2013-12-21 07:24:56 PM  
This is gonna be bad for business for Navajoles, the only gay club on the reservation.
 
WGJ
2013-12-21 07:25:08 PM  
Bunch of brave farkers
 
2013-12-21 07:26:13 PM  

Chalji: From a Realpolitik stance, their sovereignty stretches as far as Congress and the Federal Courts let them. I somehow seriously doubt Tribal Sovereignty would allow them to ignore certain issues, such as the 13th Amendment. Heck, given that the tribal nations own judicial system is an extension of the U.S. Judicial System, imposed on them by Congress, their sovereignty is as illusory as Ted Cruz's sense of shame.


New Mexico's supreme court doesn't speak for the US government. That is a bridge that we must cross when we get there.
 
2013-12-21 07:29:15 PM  
It is the exact opposite of the Oklahoma situation: Indian tribe allows it, the state prohibits it.
 
2013-12-21 07:30:15 PM  
Considering the long tradition of socially-accepted third/fourth genders, etc. in southwest cultures, I'm surprised they had a law against it.
 
2013-12-21 07:35:46 PM  

SwiftFox: So, this only applies in New Mexico, and not in the United States? So what then.


The Navajo nation encompasses parts of NM,AZ and UT, and I'm assuming tribal law applies no matter what state a particular part of the nation lies in.
 
2013-12-21 07:40:40 PM  
The methed out native nations are more like animals than real people. Lots of homo animals out there.
 
2013-12-21 07:43:21 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: It is the exact opposite of the Oklahoma situation: Indian tribe allows it, the state prohibits it.


And yet they are both examples of the same legal precident.
 
2013-12-21 07:43:44 PM  

cman: Sovereignty, biatches


too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.
 
2013-12-21 07:44:37 PM  
Nice, Subby!  Nice!
 
2013-12-21 07:46:30 PM  

nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.


You're forgetting about The Brown Scale. The more brown a person or culture is perceived as, the more leeway they have in acting against progressive interests while still being supported by progressives.
 
2013-12-21 07:51:46 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: This is really gonna disappoint Chief Packs Fudge


And Dances With Men is furious.
 
2013-12-21 07:55:57 PM  

nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.


If you want to speak of inventing new rules, where does any level of government gain the authority to interfere in consenting relationships between two people, or private medical procedures, that cause harm to no living person?
 
2013-12-21 08:00:06 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.

You're forgetting about The Brown Scale. The more brown a person or culture is perceived as, the more leeway they have in acting against progressive interests while still being supported by progressives.


Sorry to interrupt your guys' circle jerk, but here in the real world, you both sound like idiots.
 
2013-12-21 08:00:27 PM  
kemosabe

If you know what I mean, and I think you do, but I don't
 
2013-12-21 08:01:40 PM  

Mithiwithi: nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.

If you want to speak of inventing new rules, where does any level of government gain the authority to interfere in consenting relationships between two people, or private medical procedures, that cause harm to no living person?


The whole point of being anti abortion is that you view the unborn as helpless living persons
 
2013-12-21 08:01:42 PM  
 you are in so much trouble when monty666 gets here, subby.

..or not. i dunno.
 
2013-12-21 08:06:35 PM  
..reminds me of this -

what the Indian said to the Mermaid..."how come?"

bada-boom.
 
2013-12-21 08:06:55 PM  
That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited"

i200.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-21 08:09:52 PM  

Lanadapter: The whole point of being anti abortion is that you view the unborn as helpless living persons


I would have more respect for their viewpoint if they cared as much about that young person outside of the womb as they seem to care while it is still in there.
 
2013-12-21 08:10:01 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The best part about gay Indians is that they use every part of the butthole, no part goes to waste


Beautiful isn't it? We could all learn from them.
 
2013-12-21 08:12:20 PM  

verydrab: The methed out native nations are more like animals than real people. Lots of homo animals out there.


Hooray racism!
 
2013-12-21 08:14:17 PM  

Mithiwithi: nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.

If you want to speak of inventing new rules, where does any level of government gain the authority to interfere in consenting relationships between two people, or private medical procedures, that cause harm to no living person?


The full faith and credit clause of the constitution.


"That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited" but it also recognizes marriages created outside tribal lands"


It seems like the tribe understand it more than the bigoted states.
 
2013-12-21 08:23:28 PM  

Waldo Pepper: do you have any facts/figures showing how pro-lifers care less about persons outside the womb vs inside the womb?


Check out pro-lifers and support of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
 
2013-12-21 08:24:26 PM  
Gives whole new meaning of the term "sweat lodge"
 
2013-12-21 08:28:09 PM  
The Navajo know.
 
2013-12-21 08:28:29 PM  

stratagos: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

Exactly. While I support same sex marriage, I support respecting what's left of Native American autonomy as well.


Not to mention that their law prohibiting it explicitly recognizes same-sex marriages made outside their jurisdiction.  I'd rather they didn't outlaw it at all, but if you're going to outlaw it, that's the way to go about it.
 
2013-12-21 08:29:11 PM  
More like Navajomos, am I right!?
 
2013-12-21 08:29:56 PM  

LordOfThePings: That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited"

[i200.photobucket.com image 165x210]


Boy, I said, boy...
 
2013-12-21 08:30:04 PM  

middlewaytao: Mithiwithi: nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.

If you want to speak of inventing new rules, where does any level of government gain the authority to interfere in consenting relationships between two people, or private medical procedures, that cause harm to no living person?

The full faith and credit clause of the constitution.


"That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited" but it also recognizes marriages created outside tribal lands"


It seems like the tribe understand it more than the bigoted states.


the full faith and credit clause requires other states to support the judgments and public records of other states.  it doesn't say the USG can tell the states what to do.  what you're looking for is the supremacy clause.  while you're looking for it, take a peak at the tenth amendment and Article One, Sec. 8, where the powers of Congress are outlined.  There's nothing in there about being able to tell the states what a marriage is, or what sort of schooling their children must have, let alone granting the feds the authority to compel you have health insurance.

it's all made up.  and while it might be made up for GOOD reasons, making a rule up based on fictitious authority is a step toward tyranny.  today they're protecting the rights of gays to marry, tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer, or need to read the Bible each morning, or aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.
 
2013-12-21 08:31:15 PM  
Since when have native Americans been homophobic? Has Christian oppression managed to stifle their tradition of two-spirits?
 
2013-12-21 08:37:16 PM  

nickdaisy: tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer


They tried that. It didn't work out too well.

nickdaisy: or need to read the Bible each morning


Because the First Amendment doesn't exist.

nickdaisy: aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.


Because that's totally enforceable.


/so tired of slippery slope arguments
 
2013-12-21 08:40:26 PM  

grumpfuff: nickdaisy: tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer

They tried that. It didn't work out too well.

nickdaisy: or need to read the Bible each morning

Because the First Amendment doesn't exist.

nickdaisy: aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.

Because that's totally enforceable.


/so tired of slippery slope arguments

Absurdity is sometimes a good illustration.

 
2013-12-21 08:43:24 PM  

phlegmmo: [encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 209x240]


Seig how?
 
2013-12-21 08:45:37 PM  

bojon: grumpfuff: nickdaisy: tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer

They tried that. It didn't work out too well.

nickdaisy: or need to read the Bible each morning

Because the First Amendment doesn't exist.

nickdaisy: aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.

Because that's totally enforceable.


/so tired of slippery slope arguments

Absurdity is sometimes a good illustration.


No, no it's not. Slippery slopes are fear-mongering intended to sway you without any actual evidence or facts.
 
2013-12-21 08:48:10 PM  

bojon: grumpfuff: nickdaisy: tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer

They tried that. It didn't work out too well.

nickdaisy: or need to read the Bible each morning

Because the First Amendment doesn't exist.

nickdaisy: aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.

Because that's totally enforceable.


/so tired of slippery slope arguments

Absurdity is sometimes a good illustration.


do you think anyone would have believed just a short time ago that the federal government could mandate insurance coverage?  execute a US citizen without a trial?  prosecute two wars without an express declaration?  bailout certain banks and auto manufacturers and then watch as the CEOs of those companies gave themselves fat bonuses a year later?

face it, the federal government is doing what it wants, when it wants.  and it might not do what you want all the time.  in fact, i'd submit they're buying off the left with social issues like this while they suck off the corporations that are really running the show.

but what do you care if the US government has been adopted by wall street, as long as their puppet is a black guy and gay people can marry, screw all of our other civil liberties, right?  the old white guys who came up with that federal system were just evil slave holders anyway, right?  what did they know about instituting a system to protect people from the dangers of tyranny and populism?

you don't need that old stuff-- you got change!
 
2013-12-21 08:53:23 PM  

nickdaisy: middlewaytao: Mithiwithi: nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.

If you want to speak of inventing new rules, where does any level of government gain the authority to interfere in consenting relationships between two people, or private medical procedures, that cause harm to no living person?

The full faith and credit clause of the constitution.


"That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited" but it also recognizes marriages created outside tribal lands"


It seems like the tribe understand it more than the bigoted states.

the full faith and credit clause requires other states to support the judgments and public records of other states.  it doesn't say the USG can tell the states what to do.  what you're looking for is the supremacy clause.  while you're looking for it, take a peak at the tenth amendment and Article One, Sec. 8, where the powers of Congress are outlined.  There's nothing in there about being able to tell the states what a marriage is, or what sort of schooling their children must have, let alone granting the feds the authority to compel you have health insurance.

it's all made up.  and while it might be made up for GOOD reasons, making a rule up based on fictitious authority is a step toward tyranny.  today they're protecting the rights of gays to marry, tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer, or need to read the Bible each morning, or aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.


If it were left to states interracial marriage would still be outlawed in much of the south. Only the courts ended that.
A marriage license is a public record and contract from another state that bigoted states have refused to recognize, also.

The state government endorsed bigotry will end one of the two ways above, all that you can do is try and stall it. And explain to your grandchildren.
 
2013-12-21 09:02:12 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: This is really gonna disappoint Chief Packs Fudge

And Dances With Men is furious.


They have seen many moons.
 
2013-12-21 09:02:50 PM  
Always thought Native American tribes where a bit more open, than tight sphinctered white people.
 
2013-12-21 09:15:49 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Dinjiin: Lanadapter: The whole point of being anti abortion is that you view the unborn as helpless living persons

I would have more respect for their viewpoint if they cared as much about that young person outside of the womb as they seem to care while it is still in there.

do you have any facts/figures showing how pro-lifers care less about persons outside the womb vs inside the womb?

I'm truly curous as i see that statement quite often but never any truth upholding it.


How about the Georgia Rep that wants poor kids to work for their school lunches.  Whereas the innocent fetus should be given every regard, those rotten poor kids have been living off the dole far too long.

/refute it, troll
 
2013-12-21 09:24:17 PM  
"New Mexico Supreme Court: Legalizing same-sex marriage affects everyone in the state. Navajo Nation: How?"

Oh yeah, Subby...you're totes going to hell for that. The good news is you'll be in good company.
 
2013-12-21 09:26:27 PM  

nickdaisy: do you think anyone would have believed just a short time ago that the federal government could mandate insurance coverage?


Yes. Mandating insurance coverage for sailors was one of the first acts of the United States government. The power of the government to mandate insurance coverage is literally older than the 14th Amendment.

nickdaisy: execute a US citizen without a trial?


Never happened. Combat operations in foreign territory are not executions.

nickdaisy: prosecute two wars without an express declaration


The AUMF suffices as a declaration of war for everything save international law. Technically, we can't declare war because of some arcane stuff related to our membership in the UN. Both Afghanistan and Iraq were authorized by Congress.

nickdaisy: bailout certain banks and auto manufacturers and then watch as the CEOs of those companies gave themselves fat bonuses a year later


Bonuses were restricted by federal law during that time.

You seem mad about a lot of things that never happened. Perhaps you should try being part of reality instead of hunkering down in your bunker muttering about how the queers are coming to get you.
 
2013-12-21 09:32:43 PM  

Waldo Pepper: one does not make a group. Your claim is "pro-lifers" not a specific person. When you can show me where "every pro-lifers" cares more about the unborn than anyone else then your claim will have merit. Untill that time, maybe it is best for you to keep quiet.


Most forced-birthers vote for Republicans. Republicans loathe everyone born so much that they refused to stay in Washington for even another day to ensure that unemployment benefits would continue. Therefore, pro-lifers hate everything that isn't a fetus. QED.
 
2013-12-21 09:33:42 PM  

grumpfuff: bojon: grumpfuff: nickdaisy: tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer

They tried that. It didn't work out too well.

nickdaisy: or need to read the Bible each morning

Because the First Amendment doesn't exist.

nickdaisy: aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.

Because that's totally enforceable.


/so tired of slippery slope arguments

Absurdity is sometimes a good illustration.

No, no it's not. Slippery slopes are fear-mongering intended to sway you without any actual evidence or facts.


Speculation on future actions is an essential part to making a decision. One must ensure that all things are taken into consideration before one endeavors.
 
2013-12-21 09:37:04 PM  

Waldo Pepper: captainktainer: Waldo Pepper: one does not make a group. Your claim is "pro-lifers" not a specific person. When you can show me where "every pro-lifers" cares more about the unborn than anyone else then your claim will have merit. Untill that time, maybe it is best for you to keep quiet.

Most forced-birthers vote for Republicans. Republicans loathe everyone born so much that they refused to stay in Washington for even another day to ensure that unemployment benefits would continue. Therefore, pro-lifers hate everything that isn't a fetus. QED.

yawns. dang at least try you, you have proven nothing.  prove to me that "all pro-lifers" fit the claim.


You don't understand. Its ok when he uses stereotypes to judge a group of people.
 
2013-12-21 09:40:48 PM  

Waldo Pepper: yawns. dang at least try you, you have proven nothing. prove to me that "all pro-lifers" fit the claim.


cman: You don't understand. Its ok when he uses stereotypes to judge a group of people.


Both of you morons have missed the essential bit where nobody said "all" pro-lifers. So you can both sit and spin.
 
2013-12-21 09:42:46 PM  
I am no expert but i think as the reservations and native tribes come under federal jurisdiction they might have a point.
 
2013-12-21 09:43:58 PM  

captainktainer: Waldo Pepper: yawns. dang at least try you, you have proven nothing. prove to me that "all pro-lifers" fit the claim.

cman: You don't understand. Its ok when he uses stereotypes to judge a group of people.

Both of you morons have missed the essential bit where nobody said "all" pro-lifers. So you can both sit and spin.


1. Its "morans". Get a brain and go USA
2. "Most black people commit crime". See how stupid that statement is? Most isn't all and still its a stupid statement. Playing off of stereotypes is playing off of stereotypes.
 
2013-12-21 09:44:36 PM  
 
2013-12-21 09:46:09 PM  

cman: 2. "Most black people commit crime". See how stupid that statement is? Most isn't all and still its a stupid statement. Playing off of stereotypes is playing off of stereotypes.


The statement you have just put forth is false. It's also not stereotyping to say that the people who want to force women into being incubators for the state mostly vote for people who do everything they can to make life miserable for those who have already been born.
 
2013-12-21 09:49:08 PM  

captainktainer: cman: 2. "Most black people commit crime". See how stupid that statement is? Most isn't all and still its a stupid statement. Playing off of stereotypes is playing off of stereotypes.

The statement you have just put forth is false. It's also not stereotyping to say that the people who want to force women into being incubators for the state mostly vote for people who do everything they can to make life miserable for those who have already been born.


Ok, play with stereotypes.

Tell me, who do you think I am? What are my politics? What is my gender, my age, and my criminal convictions?

Using stereotypes to beshiat a whole group of people is unfair.
 
2013-12-21 09:53:15 PM  

nickdaisy: middlewaytao: Mithiwithi: nickdaisy: cman: Sovereignty, biatches

too bad the sovereignty of our fifty states had been replaced with a centralized system of government that completely contradicts the idea of federalism. Show me where exactly the federal government has the authority to defend a mythical right to privacy and compel a state to legalize abortion, or gay marriage, or any of the other political flavors of the week?

A true progressive would be terrified of the idea that a court is just inventing new rules.

If you want to speak of inventing new rules, where does any level of government gain the authority to interfere in consenting relationships between two people, or private medical procedures, that cause harm to no living person?

The full faith and credit clause of the constitution.


"That law enacted in 2005 says same-sex marriage says same-sex marriage is "void and prohibited" but it also recognizes marriages created outside tribal lands"


It seems like the tribe understand it more than the bigoted states.

the full faith and credit clause requires other states to support the judgments and public records of other states.  it doesn't say the USG can tell the states what to do.  what you're looking for is the supremacy clause.  while you're looking for it, take a peak at the tenth amendment and Article One, Sec. 8, where the powers of Congress are outlined.  There's nothing in there about being able to tell the states what a marriage is, or what sort of schooling their children must have, let alone granting the feds the authority to compel you have health insurance.

it's all made up.  and while it might be made up for GOOD reasons, making a rule up based on fictitious authority is a step toward tyranny.  today they're protecting the rights of gays to marry, tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer, or need to read the Bible each morning, or aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.


So you're against good laws made for good reasons simply on principle then? The 10th amendment is retarded, and it was only ratified because the founding fathers were paranoid nutjobs.
 
2013-12-21 09:53:53 PM  

captainktainer: The AUMF suffices as a declaration of war for everything save international law. Technically, we can't declare war because of some arcane stuff related to our membership in the UN. Both Afghanistan and Iraq were authorized by Congress.


Also, the U.S. has been fighting undeclared wars since the 18th century. Only looking at wars against recognized sovereign states you have the Quasi War in 1798. And done pretty regularly ever since.
 
2013-12-21 09:57:37 PM  

Waldo Pepper: do you have any facts/figures showing how pro-lifers care less about persons outside the womb vs inside the womb?


Well, Republicans, in general, fight against increases spending for healthcare, sex ed (to prevent unwanted pregnancies to start with), as well as social welfare programs and social justice programs, so there is that.  They also frequently prioritize the fetus over the mother's life.  They tend to support the death penalty (even although it is unevenly applied based on your race, and often regardless of the evidence).

So there is that.
 
2013-12-21 10:04:40 PM  

cman: captainktainer: cman: 2. "Most black people commit crime". See how stupid that statement is? Most isn't all and still its a stupid statement. Playing off of stereotypes is playing off of stereotypes.

The statement you have just put forth is false. It's also not stereotyping to say that the people who want to force women into being incubators for the state mostly vote for people who do everything they can to make life miserable for those who have already been born.

Ok, play with stereotypes.

Tell me, who do you think I am? What are my politics? What is my gender, my age, and my criminal convictions?

Using stereotypes to beshiat a whole group of people is unfair.


Just to tell you, even I think my argument is bullshiat.

We both know my argument is bullshiat. We both can feel it and yet we can't say why we think it to be true.

Isn't morality strange like that? We have to negotiate morality with logic and they don't always align with each other.
 
2013-12-21 10:23:24 PM  

Waldo Pepper: HoratioGates: Waldo Pepper: do you have any facts/figures showing how pro-lifers care less about persons outside the womb vs inside the womb?

Well, Republicans, in general, fight against increases spending for healthcare, sex ed (to prevent unwanted pregnancies to start with), as well as social welfare programs and social justice programs, so there is that.  They also frequently prioritize the fetus over the mother's life.  They tend to support the death penalty (even although it is unevenly applied based on your race, and often regardless of the evidence).

So there is that.

republicans are not pro-lifers they are simply politicians.  I'm anti-abortion and pro-life but i'm on the outside as i don't want abortions outlawed.  the fetus over mother's life should never be in the hands of anyone other that the mother, husband/father and doctor.   I also hate the death penalty but will admit there are some rare cases that it's the best choice

most extreme pro-lifers that I have met and that I personally know generally care about all human life but their hands are somewhat tied on the political side.


This post has caused so much wat in me i could power a lightbulb by holding it.
 
2013-12-21 10:28:34 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: This is really gonna disappoint Chief Packs Fudge

And Dances With Men is furious.


Wrong tribe. They belong to the Aramaholes.
 
2013-12-21 10:49:24 PM  

grumpfuff: No, no it's not. Slippery slopes are fear-mongering intended to sway you without any actual evidence or facts.


www.signspotting.com

Just use the sidewalk. Jeez.
 
2013-12-21 11:06:37 PM  
OMG, Subby...OMG.

Early HOTY '14 candidate?  77 comments and I don't think anybody has gotten it yet.
 
2013-12-21 11:29:49 PM  

drdstny: OMG, Subby...OMG.

Early HOTY '14 candidate?  77 comments and I don't think anybody has gotten it yet.


Ahem...
 
2013-12-21 11:41:44 PM  

Stone Meadow: drdstny: OMG, Subby...OMG.

Early HOTY '14 candidate?  77 comments and I don't think anybody has gotten it yet.

Ahem...


----- Aye, kimosabe.
Subby make indian joke.
But if subby used the Navajo word for the generic cartoon greeting or any inkling of "That's nice, move on...." it wouldn't be funny.

Yat'eh, Diné!!
 
2013-12-21 11:44:32 PM  
Oh yeah and HOTY top 5 for sure.
 
2013-12-21 11:58:51 PM  
Sorry I'm confused here. Gay jokes? Not ok. Native American jokes? Ok.
 
2013-12-22 01:04:21 AM  
Brought to you by the lawfirm of Wi, Cheatam, and Howe.
 
2013-12-22 01:24:11 AM  
I like this

I don't understand why any government / governing body would oppose same sex marriages, but I love the way that the tribes can tell any level of government to fark off.
 
2013-12-22 02:17:17 AM  
www.rightwingwatch.org
 
2013-12-22 02:25:53 AM  
What would be hilariously ironic is if anti-SSM activists started proposing the expansion of tribal lands until the tribal SSM ban covered the entire state.
 
2013-12-22 03:04:31 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: What would be hilariously ironic is if anti-SSM activists started proposing the expansion of tribal lands until the tribal SSM ban covered the entire state.


Well, the tribe per the article actually recognizes marriages from outside the tribal lands so it would be a step in the right direction...
 
2013-12-22 03:25:55 AM  

Waldo Pepper: ignacio: 10th amendment

why do you feel the 10th is retarded (serious non troll question).


It limits the federal government's power exclusively to things on a very short list. It severely gimps the federal government, makes it much harder for good laws to be passed, and basically tries to treat each of the 50 states like its own country, which is retarded. Congress has enough checks and balances built in that we should be taking an exclusinary stance as to what it can or can not do. Declare certain things like unreasonable searches and seizures or quartering soldiers off limits, but otherwise, if you can get a bill passed through both the House and the Senate and signed by the president, there's no reason not to enforce it in all 50 states. Right now, in a lot of very important manners, we're simply hoping that we can get all 50 states to not be retarded. And that's not good enough.
 
2013-12-22 03:29:18 AM  
The Constitution does not enumerate regulation of marriage as a Federal power, and moreover, makes a strong implication of it being a State power in its requirement that states recognize one another's marriages. States having the power to regulate who can marry is derived, and undisputed. Thus, the only question is whether a prohibition of gay marriage violates the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, as that is the only rule that would supersede State power to regulate who can marry who.

Here, it's a matter of jurisdiction: this court does not have jurisdiction to set case law for the Navajo Nation. I don't know how it works exactly, but it might require a U.S. Supreme Court decision to set case law for the Native American territories.

/obviously not a lawyer
 
2013-12-22 04:02:31 AM  
Loving v. Virginia says the federal government can overwrite state laws in regards to marriage.
 
2013-12-22 05:40:11 AM  
Waldo Pepper:   How are they being forced to be incubators? did the state force these ladies to have sex?

Obviously not, but people don't need to be forced to have sex.  Sex doesn't need to lead to unwanted pregnancy, but policies like abstinence only education and taking away birth control coverage do exactly that.  Unwanted pregnancy doesn't need to lead to unwanted childbirth, but policies like putting unnecessary restrictions on abortion or attempts at outright ban do exactly that.  Taken in combination, that leads to forced childbirth.  Or a higher abortion rate if women can still navigate the maze of restrictions.  Probably a little of both.  At any rate, "forced childbirth advocates" is a pretty damn accurate descriptor of these people, even as they inadvertently increase the abortion rate as a result of their misguided policies.
 
2013-12-22 08:45:11 AM  
Wish I thought to read this thread earlier.

Seems strange to me to hear about Navaho outlawing gay marriage, when the Dene Sulineh community I lived in was the single most gay-friendly place I've ever worked in, with numerous openly-gay staff and students.
 
2013-12-22 10:51:33 AM  

cman: grumpfuff: bojon: grumpfuff: nickdaisy: tomorrow they're deciding that you can't drink beer

They tried that. It didn't work out too well.

nickdaisy: or need to read the Bible each morning

Because the First Amendment doesn't exist.

nickdaisy: aren't allowed to masturbate to Mrs. Doubtfire posters.

Because that's totally enforceable.


/so tired of slippery slope arguments

Absurdity is sometimes a good illustration.

No, no it's not. Slippery slopes are fear-mongering intended to sway you without any actual evidence or facts.

Speculation on future actions is an essential part to making a decision. One must ensure that all things are taken into consideration before one endeavors.


Speculation about possible outcomes based on available evidence =/= slippery slope.
 
2013-12-22 11:14:23 AM  

Waldo Pepper: How are they being forced to be incubators? did the state force these ladies to have sex?


And here is the dumbest pro-life argument ever toted out in a debate. Hear that ladies and gents? If you dont want kids or a possible forced (or sorry pursuasive) pregnancy, you must sign up for a life of celibacy.

/off to inform the the mister and he's gonna be pissed
 
2013-12-22 12:49:21 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Gives whole new meaning of the term "sweat lodge"



New meaning?  I think not.

I take it you never saw that "Journey's End" episode of ST:TNG when the Traveller disguised himself as a Red Indian and invited Wesley into the sweat lodge for a vision quest.  At the time, that scene was one of the gayest things on broadcast TV since Paul Lynde.
 
2013-12-22 01:36:46 PM  

Waldo Pepper: elysive: Waldo Pepper: How are they being forced to be incubators? did the state force these ladies to have sex?


And here is the dumbest pro-life argument ever toted out in a debate. Hear that ladies and gents? If you dont want kids or a possible forced (or sorry pursuasive) pregnancy, you must sign up for a life of celibacy.

/off to inform the the mister and he's gonna be pissed

Wait you mean all those ways of preventing pregnancy don't work or are you saying that the only women who are getting abortions are a result of failed birth control?  There are a whole lot of folks out there who have have sex and have never become or gotten someone pregnant and I would dare say most of these were a result of using birth control.
Like everything else in life, if you want to do the deed then you must be willing to accept what comes along with the deed if you choose not to use care.

is this truly a woman's issues or maybe it is just another way for men to treat women like a dog. "oh i knocked you up, well hop in and lets go take get rid of it."


Why do all women seeking abortions have to meet your moral approval? Last time I checked no birth control is 100% effective and women aren't the only ones deciding to have sex. I dont care if 99.9999999998% of all unwanted prgnancies are due to women whoring around at the central market spread eagle, unprotected and with strangers. If my birth control fails, I take my personal right not to have to yield my body to the sustenance of some other organism pretty seriously.
 
2013-12-22 02:10:34 PM  
Waldo Pepper (favorite: christian troll): do you have any facts/figures showing how pro-lifers care less about persons outside the womb vs inside the womb?  I'm truly curous as i see that statement quite often but never any truth upholding it.

Go back under your bridge.
 
2013-12-22 03:33:56 PM  

Waldo Pepper: elysive: Waldo Pepper: elysive: Waldo Pepper: How are they being forced to be incubators? did the state force these ladies to have sex?


And here is the dumbest pro-life argument ever toted out in a debate. Hear that ladies and gents? If you dont want kids or a possible forced (or sorry pursuasive) pregnancy, you must sign up for a life of celibacy.

/off to inform the the mister and he's gonna be pissed

Wait you mean all those ways of preventing pregnancy don't work or are you saying that the only women who are getting abortions are a result of failed birth control?  There are a whole lot of folks out there who have have sex and have never become or gotten someone pregnant and I would dare say most of these were a result of using birth control.
Like everything else in life, if you want to do the deed then you must be willing to accept what comes along with the deed if you choose not to use care.

is this truly a woman's issues or maybe it is just another way for men to treat women like a dog. "oh i knocked you up, well hop in and lets go take get rid of it."

Why do all women seeking abortions have to meet your moral approval? Last time I checked no birth control is 100% effective and women aren't the only ones deciding to have sex. I dont care if 99.9999999998% of all unwanted prgnancies are due to women whoring around at the central market spread eagle, unprotected and with strangers. If my birth control fails, I take my personal right not to have to yield my body to the sustenance of some other organism pretty seriously.

why does a life  have to end?


For a myriad of reasons. Are you a stupid, or do you just play one on TV?
 
2013-12-22 05:36:40 PM  

Waldo Pepper: o_blah: Waldo Pepper: elysive: Waldo Pepper: elysive: Waldo Pepper: How are they being forced to be incubators? did the state force these ladies to have sex?


And here is the dumbest pro-life argument ever toted out in a debate. Hear that ladies and gents? If you dont want kids or a possible forced (or sorry pursuasive) pregnancy, you must sign up for a life of celibacy.

/off to inform the the mister and he's gonna be pissed

Wait you mean all those ways of preventing pregnancy don't work or are you saying that the only women who are getting abortions are a result of failed birth control?  There are a whole lot of folks out there who have have sex and have never become or gotten someone pregnant and I would dare say most of these were a result of using birth control.
Like everything else in life, if you want to do the deed then you must be willing to accept what comes along with the deed if you choose not to use care.

is this truly a woman's issues or maybe it is just another way for men to treat women like a dog. "oh i knocked you up, well hop in and lets go take get rid of it."

Why do all women seeking abortions have to meet your moral approval? Last time I checked no birth control is 100% effective and women aren't the only ones deciding to have sex. I dont care if 99.9999999998% of all unwanted prgnancies are due to women whoring around at the central market spread eagle, unprotected and with strangers. If my birth control fails, I take my personal right not to have to yield my body to the sustenance of some other organism pretty seriously.

why does a life  have to end?

For a myriad of reasons. Are you a stupid, or do you just play one on TV?

I might be stupid but at least I own my opinions and not simply repeating the opinion of those who want treat women like whores and trick them into killing their babies.


I can't tell if you're half braindead or trolling, but I'm just gonna slowly back out of this thread because nobody is benefiting from this "debate".
 
2013-12-23 12:49:01 AM  

Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Considering the long tradition of socially-accepted third/fourth genders, etc. in southwest cultures, I'm surprised they had a law against it.


Gender identity sexual orientation
 
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