Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Huffington Post)   The Pope is trolling Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin again   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 131
    More: Cool, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Christmas presents, emergency shelter, Castel Gandolfo, pope, immigrants, Live On  
•       •       •

18019 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2013 at 10:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-12-20 08:57:13 AM  
14 votes:
This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.
2013-12-20 09:25:18 AM  
12 votes:
It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.
2013-12-20 09:06:30 AM  
12 votes:

Speaker2Animals: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.

I hope not the same way they "handled" John Paul I.


I think they'll try to point and laugh, then try to quietly redefine the popes comments. When that doesn't work, they'll likely say he isn't the real pope, or just ignore him as much as possible. Thing is, this pope seems like he wants to get in people's faces about the social justice aspects of catholic doctrine. That sort of thing makes robber baron amoral capitalists very uncomfortable. They'd prefer us to accept our role as techno feudal serfs and not get uppity on the whole money issue.
2013-12-20 10:17:02 AM  
7 votes:

Nabb1: quickdraw: Nabb1: Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.

Has anyone told you you seem a tad literal-minded?

Among other things, sure. Also, I don't see why some people think this is going to create controversy with evangelicals. Protestants don't really follow what the Pope says. That's sort of the point. And evangelicals loathe the Catholic Church and I remember when many considered JPII the Anti-Christ.


The point is the US right has drifted so far into a sea of derp, that the Pope seems like a libtard to them.
2013-12-20 09:46:01 AM  
7 votes:

Weaver95: Nabb1: quickdraw: Nabb1: Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.

Has anyone told you you seem a tad literal-minded?

Among other things, sure. Also, I don't see why some people think this is going to create controversy with evangelicals. Protestants don't really follow what the Pope says. That's sort of the point. And evangelicals loathe the Catholic Church and I remember when many considered JPII the Anti-Christ.

They might despise the catholic church but they still respect that the church has a lot of influence around the world. And therein lies the problem....the evangelicals know they're screwed if they get into a slap fight with Francis over doctrine.


The alliance between Evangelicals and Catholics is shaky at best--in part, because a lot of Evangelicals just don't like Catholics, their Church, and the loudest and proudest voices among them don't even consider Catholics Christians--but they have some shared goals, and despite the lack of respect between the two, they've been able to point to their unity of message, as being "all" of Christandom--conveniently forgetting what a lot of Methodists, Episcopals, and Unitarians consider themselves Christians. The Evangelicals lose the Catholic portion of their alliance, they're looking at a lot of folks who are going to likewise remember some of the truly f*cked up sh*t that they've said in the past about the Mother Church.

quickdraw:  Nah this is the writing on the wall for them and they know it. They've had a good run but this is the end of a unified christian prosperity gospel. Seriously, the corruption under the last popester must have been so awful and so provable that the church needed to put this guy in charge or lose the whole thing. I dunno - it's a miracle really. However it happened its a serious shift in the zeitgeist to which I can only say Hallelujah!

Which is perhaps why the Church chose a Jesuit to lead them. This was a ballsy move within the Church to go with someone like Francis. The Church has been bleeding for some time--money, losing parishoners, and suffering scandal after scandal across the globe--and when the Church needs someone to defend her, to champion her, they turn to the Jesuits who have been loyal to the Pope and the message, and who do their best to try to keep the Church honest.

2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.


Pretty much. That folks are taking the Pope's commentary to be about the US alone shows that the ills that we have here, are widespread, and the folks who are most "offended" and defensive, that is somewhat telling all on its own.
2013-12-20 10:38:45 AM  
6 votes:
2.bp.blogspot.com
2013-12-20 08:55:23 AM  
6 votes:

Mugato: I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.


It's not a country, it's a city state. Even so, it's not the Medieval period or the Renaissance anymore. The Pontiff doesn't have plenary powers to raid Vatican coffers as his own.
2013-12-20 12:39:23 PM  
5 votes:
The Palin, Limbaug and Hanity Jesus:

s23.postimg.org
2013-12-20 12:14:07 PM  
5 votes:

Inflatable Rhetoric: Inflatable Rhetoric: nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.

No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.

oops, they're useless in the lab.



si0.twimg.com

A pope with a chemistry degree

Jesuit scientists from the 20th c.(feel free to read the lists from all the other centuries, including this one)

Former particle physicist Friar Andrew Pinsent explains Higgs

Rev. Cyril Opeil, SJ, is prepared to become the first Jesuit physicist ever at Los Alamos National Laboratory

Jesuit Mathematicians, Scientists and Astronomers


What did getting pwned this hard do to you?

I'm sincerely curious.

Tell me.

And remember, this is for posterity so be honest.

How do you feel?

2013-12-20 10:22:38 AM  
5 votes:
I was raised catholic, and I have disliked the church since I was old enough to actually pay attention to the sermons. I've seen rigid adherence to church doctrine poison family members against each other.

Still, I can't help but grudgingly admire Francis. It isn't going to get me back into the church, that ship has sailed long ago, but it looks like he is shaking things up and that has to be a good thing.
2013-12-20 10:16:55 AM  
5 votes:
USA Jesus wouldn't give things to immigrants, he would take things away to inspire them to work harder. That's how it works here, you work hard in a servile role when you're a minority, and as a reward you're reincarnated as a White person to work hard at a desk job. Eventually you'll be reincarnated as a rich white republican and you don't have work hard at all, and you get to chastise the masses for wanting more and not working hard enough.
2013-12-20 10:09:44 AM  
5 votes:

chirho.me



/Oblig
2013-12-20 09:51:55 AM  
5 votes:

2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.


Very much this. He is setting an example for the faithful around the world as well as trying to display compassion for humanity to inspire believers and non-believers alike. It is foolish to view this myopically in terms of the US and our own internal politics.
2013-12-20 09:34:50 AM  
5 votes:
I really like the Pope.
2013-12-20 11:16:56 AM  
4 votes:
luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.
2013-12-20 10:49:56 AM  
4 votes:

Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


I propose they go back to hating Catholics as idol-worshiping pagans. The main reason evangelicals and conservative Catholics started buddying up politically and giving us presents like Reagan and George W was their shared hatred of legal abortion. Prior to that, Southern Bible-thumpers lumped Catholics in with Jews, Hindus and Muslims as part of the great parade of the Hell-bound. Here's to Francis sticking a big fat wedge into that coalition.
2013-12-20 10:27:35 AM  
4 votes:

Phinn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

Why should we celebrate a glimmer of light when the rest of the world is darkness?

Because you're wasting time, all while you're failing to uinderstand basic economic mechanisms that cause a nearly infinite multiple of hardship greater than this PR stunt alleviated.

But if time-wasting were the only problem, it would be minor.  There is also the affirmative harm caused by disseminating propaganda for religion, which will only serve the interests of religion, the irrationality of which will keep the world in darkness and lies and therefore misery for yet another generation.

But sure, so long as a few people got some stamps and a Christmas card.  It's all cool.


Your world sounds bleak. Have you tried lighting a candle yourself?
2013-12-20 10:26:29 AM  
4 votes:

Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.


which one of those words do you eat?
2013-12-20 10:22:00 AM  
4 votes:
If you wake up some morning and find yourself politically right of a Catholic Pope, you are most certainly doing it wrong.
Take a hint.
2013-12-20 10:17:06 AM  
4 votes:

Speaker2Animals: Mugato: I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.

???


Yeah, I know. He's been in charge for like three months. You'd think he would've divested almost two millennia of accumulated wealth already. It's not like he's running into any opposition or anything. Hypocrite slacker.

/not Catholic, love this Pope
//he's headed in the right direction
///hope they let him live long enough
2013-12-20 10:15:03 AM  
4 votes:

Nabb1: 2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.

Very much this. He is setting an example for the faithful around the world as well as trying to display compassion for humanity to inspire believers and non-believers alike. It is foolish to view this myopically in terms of the US and our own internal politics.


It's an article written by an American outlet for a (primarily) American audience. Fark is an American-hosted site, and subby is likely American (just based on the fact that he called out the American King & Queen of the Potato Prom).

I bet Ha'aretz wrote a different story.
2013-12-20 09:18:31 AM  
4 votes:

Nabb1: Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.


This.  And I might add that I believe him to be 100% sincere.  He's got no one to answer to, so his being all Jesus-like is what he believes is right, and I applaud him for it.
2013-12-20 09:13:07 AM  
4 votes:
Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.
2013-12-20 08:50:16 AM  
4 votes:
We should have a Francis I tab.
2013-12-20 03:30:47 PM  
3 votes:

luidprand: Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.

The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.


I was at mass last Sunday and was very surprised to hear Fr. Tom (our pastor) ask the congregation how many of us believed in evolution, the big bang theory, etc... much to my husband's embarrassment, I (and several other people) raised my hand. Fr. Tom went on to mention that the originator of the the big bang theory was, in fact, a Catholic priest. For the first time in my life, a Catholic priest echoed my own thoughts on the matter - that the Bible is human interpretation of God's word and that 'a day' in the creation of the world didn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant 24 days, weeks, years, thousand years, etc... and that evolution could very well have been a part of God's creation process.

I was stunned. I've ALWAYS believed that. But to hear a priest publicly come out and say that evolution isn't a falsehood, that the two don't have to be mutually exclusive of one another, blew my mind.

Good on ya, Fr. Tom!
2013-12-20 01:59:24 PM  
3 votes:
Dear "Rigidity as Rectitude" fascistas.

All of this "Oh, dear me" posturing solves nothing, repairs nothing, improves nothing.

It's just shouting people off of your lawn.

Humanity doesn't fit into a prefab exoskeleton of "THIS IS AS IT MUST BE" and never has or needed to.  The crust of the motherf*ckers sucking up air around this joint largely don't want to be sick, sad, miserable, dead before their time, starved, wet or lonely.  Period.  That's the battle.  And the things that alleviate those conditions are what matters.  And the rest is a mung pie manifesto for what keeps the rabble on their assigned side of the tracks.  And it's why sh*t burns down every 400 years or so.  I could give a rat's ass about the grown men in dresses with nifty statues faction of Christianity, but the Pope is helping.  He's helping.  Get it?
2013-12-20 12:42:20 PM  
3 votes:
I am usually the first guy to whine about the never ending cycle of the same threads. Having said that, I will take two Pope threads every damn day of the week. And for every atheist who wants to dismiss this guy- he might just renew your faith in humanity.
2013-12-20 12:20:25 PM  
3 votes:

SordidEuphemism: Felgraf: Inflatable Rhetoric: Inflatable Rhetoric: nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.

No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.

oops, they're useless in the lab.

ARe you suggesting that any religious or spiritual person is useless as a researcher?

The suggestion is that someone who is satisfied with the answer 'A Wizard God Did It' is useless. If you're satisfied with the answer, you feel no compulsion to prove or disprove it, and therefore will not be a good scientist.


Even when they take the tack of "Okay, in the grand scheme of things God was that "spark" initiated the process, but since that's not relevant to science we'll focus on the actual grit,"?  Jesuits don't just go "God Did It!" and expect that to be a sufficient answer.  You have them confused with Southern Baptists.


The History Channel once did a really good tour of the Vatican, a glimmer of what the channel used to be.  When they got to the Vatican Observatory, they talked to its director (I believe), who had a very good quote about all this (this was a priest in direct service to the Pope, for context):  "A science book is always changing, always being kept up to date with new information.  Now, when you look at the Bible, what immediately stands out?  It never changes.  Throughout all the centuries, it stays the same.  Therefore, the Bible is not a science book."
2013-12-20 12:14:00 PM  
3 votes:

SordidEuphemism: The suggestion is that someone who is satisfied with the answer 'A Wizard God Did It' is useless. If you're satisfied with the answer, you feel no compulsion to prove or disprove it, and therefore will not be a good scientist.


... Do you *know* any Jesuits?
2013-12-20 11:55:02 AM  
3 votes:
A Christian acting Christ-like and it's international news.
Tells you how sad the planet has become.
2013-12-20 11:51:01 AM  
3 votes:

Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?


There ya go. I knew someone could find the cloud in the silver lining.

You go right on with your bad self. If he's not helping each and every last needy person on earth helping anyone means nothing

Or you know perhaps he is leading by example.

I help some....you help some...we all help some.

In fact dare I say perhaps the job is too big for one person so he might in fact be saying "WE need to help each other."
2013-12-20 11:27:42 AM  
3 votes:

Phinn: PickleBarrel: Phinn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

Why should we celebrate a glimmer of light when the rest of the world is darkness?

Because you're wasting time, all while you're failing to uinderstand basic economic mechanisms that cause a nearly infinite multiple of hardship greater than this PR stunt alleviated.

But if time-wasting were the only problem, it would be minor.  There is also the affirmative harm caused by disseminating propaganda for religion, which will only serve the interests of religion, the irrationality of which will keep the world in darkness and lies and therefore misery for yet another generation.

But sure, so long as a few people got some stamps and a Christmas card.  It's all cool.

You reward those who do good by saying "atta boy!" even though it doesn't solve all the problems because it's a start to something better.  To ignore and demean someone who does good because it doesn't solve all the problems will snuff that out.

If your goal is to continue with and contribute to the misery and suffering, Phinn, good job! I'm sure many people are very proud of you, especially the rich and powerful who want it this way.

It's not a start to anything good. It's a PR stunt to promote his brand, which in this case is collectivist flavor of Catholicism (or Catholic flavor of collectivism, I guess).

His organization produces nothing except doctrine and fiction posing as fact. Everything it gives it first takes from productive people, by propagating utter nonsense.

These 2,000 people got a card and some stamps. This stunt in trivial in terms of material benefit, but enormously important in terms of perpetuating the reputation of both religion generally and this man's economic bullshiat in particular, which will perpetuate and exacerbate the systemic causes of poverty and hardship for billions of people.

So, fark him.


Wow, what an asshole
2013-12-20 11:12:26 AM  
3 votes:

Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.


The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.
2013-12-20 11:07:50 AM  
3 votes:

ladodger34: I'm not Catholic, but my wife and kids are. I've been to mass a bunch more than I ever planned on.

I will say that I've been fairly impressed with the priests that I've spoken with. It's all personal bias, but they have seemed to be more worldly than their protestant counterparts.


I have a similar experience.  My fiance is catholic.  I have been much more impressed with them than I expected.  Evangelicals are giving Christianity a bad name

// born and raised Methodist
2013-12-20 10:51:19 AM  
3 votes:

WalMartian: phillydrifter: A Cave Geek: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 650x650]

Would it be appropriate to say the pope has more money than god?

You don't need a dime to treat others in a Christ-like manner.


More to the point, he is not enjoying any benefit from all that money. He lives in a simple apartment, eschewing the papal palace. That isn't marketing, it's a way of life.
2013-12-20 10:45:42 AM  
3 votes:

Phinn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

Why should we celebrate a glimmer of light when the rest of the world is darkness?

Because you're wasting time, all while you're failing to uinderstand basic economic mechanisms that cause a nearly infinite multiple of hardship greater than this PR stunt alleviated.

But if time-wasting were the only problem, it would be minor.  There is also the affirmative harm caused by disseminating propaganda for religion, which will only serve the interests of religion, the irrationality of which will keep the world in darkness and lies and therefore misery for yet another generation.

But sure, so long as a few people got some stamps and a Christmas card.  It's all cool.


You reward those who do good by saying "atta boy!" even though it doesn't solve all the problems because it's a start to something better.  To ignore and demean someone who does good because it doesn't solve all the problems will snuff that out.

If your goal is to continue with and contribute to the misery and suffering, Phinn, good job! I'm sure many people are very proud of you, especially the rich and powerful who want it this way.
2013-12-20 10:17:11 AM  
3 votes:

Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?


Why should we celebrate a glimmer of light when the rest of the world is darkness?
2013-12-20 10:04:15 AM  
3 votes:
Subs I don't think the pope gives a fark about palin and limpbaugh
2013-12-20 09:25:10 AM  
3 votes:

Nabb1: quickdraw: Nabb1: Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.

Has anyone told you you seem a tad literal-minded?

Among other things, sure. Also, I don't see why some people think this is going to create controversy with evangelicals. Protestants don't really follow what the Pope says. That's sort of the point. And evangelicals loathe the Catholic Church and I remember when many considered JPII the Anti-Christ.


They might despise the catholic church but they still respect that the church has a lot of influence around the world. And therein lies the problem....the evangelicals know they're screwed if they get into a slap fight with Francis over doctrine.
2013-12-20 09:14:59 AM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: Speaker2Animals: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.

I hope not the same way they "handled" John Paul I.

I think they'll try to point and laugh, then try to quietly redefine the popes comments. When that doesn't work, they'll likely say he isn't the real pope, or just ignore him as much as possible. Thing is, this pope seems like he wants to get in people's faces about the social justice aspects of catholic doctrine. That sort of thing makes robber baron amoral capitalists very uncomfortable. They'd prefer us to accept our role as techno feudal serfs and not get uppity on the whole money issue.


Nah this is the writing on the wall for them and they know it. They've had a good run but this is the end of a unified christian prosperity gospel. Seriously, the corruption under the last popester must have been so awful and so provable that the church needed to put this guy in charge or lose the whole thing. I dunno - it's a miracle really. However it happened its a serious shift in the zeitgeist to which I can only say Hallelujah!
2013-12-20 08:58:58 AM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


I hope not the same way they "handled" John Paul I.
2013-12-20 04:09:26 PM  
2 votes:
A Cave Geek:

No I didn't.  Methodists are a little more tolerant and 'true to the word' than, say Baptists, or Lutherans.

Hey, don't lump all Lutherans in with the WELS and Missouri Synod folks.  The ELCA (the largest lutheran denomination, larger than all the others combined) has allowed openly gay ministers for a couple years now.  In addition, while stating abortion should only be considered in the case of rape, danger to the mother, or an fetal non-viability, also state they appose laws that would prevent safe, legal abortions.  While taking no specific stance on creation and evolution, they believe in "interpreting the Bible within its historical contexts and applying critical methods of research".  IOW, they reject bible literalism, and all the craziness it leads to.
2013-12-20 02:15:23 PM  
2 votes:

Phinn: Clever Neologism: If a charity organization with well-publicized principles (in fact, the basics are contained in the most-printed volume in history) takes voluntary donations from people, and then does what they say they are going to do with it, what exactly are you pissed about? That they use unproven information or coercive marketing techniques or something?  You might want to start with many other shining examples, like, oh, every group ever that can get away with it. Sounds to me like the Pope is actually practicing principled capitalism, with messaging, marketing, and adjusting to shifts in consumer behavior and attitudes.  The fact that they are using your tools to speak against your ideology must be infuriating and deeply disturbing for you.

I'm not pissed about any of that.  I won't use force to stop the printing of fairy tales, or the handing over of donation money out of guilt inspired by those fairy tales, or the use of (some of) that money to buy 2,000 metro cards and calling cards and postage stamps and handing that FARKING BONANZA out to whomever you want.

I won't even object to their doing these things SOLELY for marketing/branding/PR purposes.  This handout is a perfect example of a pseudo-event, as Daniel Boorstin described in The Image.  It's not meant to accomplish anything that's substantially real; it is an act done for the purpose of show.  Theater.  Attention-getting.

It's expert-level propaganda, by the way, which is not surprising because religion is in the propaganda business, and always have been.  They have no product to sell.  They have been perfecting their skills for a few millennia.  Secular advertising is only now catching up to the methods that religions invented many centuries ago.

I'm just pointing out that Pope Frankie is wrong on both the whole supernatural phenomena thing, and wrong on his economics to boot.  He's doing nothing to actually end poverty, and advocating ideas that make it far worse.  That's an asshole move, a ...


By your definition, yet you've yet to propose an argument that isn't prejudiced towards your own perspective. If your argument is truly universal, than it should be one which proceeds logically without resorting to logical fallacies (such as your constant use of the strawman argument and non-standard definitions) and is acceptable based upon agreed-upon axioms. As of yet, your axioms strike me as those proposed by people like Ayn Rand or Richard Dawkins, who have specific agendas and don't mind skewing data to fit them. Show us the thread of your thought, please and be clear as to your definitions. I think we may be talking at cross purposes in some cases.

/Or you could find a local priest or rabbi - they should be more than happy to help you construct a rational, coherent argument with strong, if not irrefutable logic. After all, that's their job.
2013-12-20 02:13:33 PM  
2 votes:
Exactly how is he advocating ideas that make poverty worse, and why do leading anti-poverty economists like Jeffery Sachs who has now advised two Popes (as well as the UN, Poland, and other nations) on poverty issues disagree with you're assessment?

From his Columbia University Bio (linked above):

Professor Sachs is widely considered to be the world's leading expert on economic development and the fight against poverty. His work on ending poverty, promoting economic growth, fighting hunger and disease, and promoting sustainable environmental practices, has taken him to more than 125 countries with more than 90 percent of the world's population. For more than a quarter century he has advised dozens of heads of state and governments on economic strategy, in the Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. He also advised Pope John Paul II on the encyclical Centesimus Annus. He works closely with international organizations including the African Union, the Asian Development Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank, the African Development Bank, the Islamic Development Bank, the World Health Organization, the United Nations Development Programme, the World Food Programme, UNAIDS, the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, TB, and Malaria, among others.
2013-12-20 02:13:02 PM  
2 votes:

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


Yeah, not like Christians are actually called to be kind to others or anything...
2013-12-20 01:24:38 PM  
2 votes:

Phinn: Graffito: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What about them?  What do you want him to do?

I expect him to stop spreading outright nonsense as though it's true, for starters.

I expect him to stop trying to persuade people to believe things that cause them to stop seeking truth.  Supernatural dogma isn't an answer to any question.  It's worse--it's an anti-answer, in that it actively displaces the right answer we haven't found yet.  If someone asks you for directions to a place, and you say, "I don't know," then you've given no answer.  But if he asks you and you say, "It's that a-way, sir!" but you're completely wrong, then you have actively inhibited his effort to get to his destination.  He's now worse off than if you had simply said nothing, or confessed ignorance.  You've given an actively harmful anti-answer.

That's religion.  It poses as an answer, but is a deliberately false one.

Notice how every time reason provides an answer, religious explanations retreat to the dark corners of the room.  If you explain some phenomenon with reason and evidence, religion backs up and says that "the supernatural beings must have motivated it from a place beyond our current perception."  And so on, and so on, until religion has retreated to its current refuge--the cosmological origins of the universe.  Science can't explain it, so religious nutters hide there, saying, "I'm going to believe this fairy tale until you prove me wrong."

As though, somehow, a bunch of goat-herding Levantine sky-worshipers, with no concept of science or logic or even microorganisms, managed to GUESS the true nature of the origins of the universe and were spot-on correct about the whole monotheism concept, and that 2 or 3 thousand years later, after science has managed to invalidate 99.9% of their bullsh*t, we are still obligated to assum ...


Look, dude, I'm an atheist.  I've no use for religion.  I'm not asking what he is NOT supposed to do.  I am asking what he is supposed to do.   Resign the papacy?
The RCC is a huge, wealthy and influential institution that's not going away anytime soon.  If he can direct it to a more 'Christlike' mission, I support him.

Criticism is easy.  Problem solving is hard.
2013-12-20 12:28:58 PM  
2 votes:

shirtsbyeric: So is the Catholic Church going to pay taxes now?


Is GE?
2013-12-20 12:27:47 PM  
2 votes:

SordidEuphemism: "God did it." That's all some folks need. If you're satisfied with those THREE WORDS, then you're useless in the lab.

"How did God do it?" is a very, very different statement. While it still states belief, it shows a curiosity to discover the underlying mechanics.

I do not mean to imply that anyone with faith is useless as a scientist. I mean to state that anyone who is satisfied with "Because God" is useless.


Okay! It seemed liek you were suggesting a lot of Jesuits were in the "God Did It" without the "HOW did god do it" camp, and I was going "BWAH-HUH?".

I actually agree with your sentiment, then.
2013-12-20 12:20:36 PM  
2 votes:

Felgraf: SordidEuphemism: The suggestion is that someone who is satisfied with the answer 'A Wizard God Did It' is useless. If you're satisfied with the answer, you feel no compulsion to prove or disprove it, and therefore will not be a good scientist.

... Do you *know* any Jesuits?


Actually, yes. My father was trained by Jesuits (but left to join the military). Either I may not be clear, or you may not be parsing correctly. Allow me to attempt to rephrase.

"God did it." That's all some folks need. If you're satisfied with those THREE WORDS, then you're useless in the lab.

"How did God do it?" is a very, very different statement. While it still states belief, it shows a curiosity to discover the underlying mechanics.

I do not mean to imply that anyone with faith is useless as a scientist. I mean to state that anyone who is satisfied with "Because God" is useless.
2013-12-20 12:20:12 PM  
2 votes:
SordidEuphemism:The suggestion is that someone who is satisfied with the answer 'A Wizard God Did It' is useless. If you're satisfied with the answer, you feel no compulsion to prove or disprove it, and therefore will not be a good scientist.

Similarly, anyone who believes undoubtedly that Catholics have this mindset concerning science is useless to this discussion.
2013-12-20 12:04:30 PM  
2 votes:

Inflatable Rhetoric: nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.

No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.


Science often starts with the conclusion. They call it the hypothesis. It's derived from the vast resources of human imagination. Any serious scientist would agree.
http://www.vaticanobservatory.org/
2013-12-20 11:52:19 AM  
2 votes:
Phinn:
His organization produces nothing except doctrine and fiction posing as fact. Everything it gives it first takes from productive people, by propagating utter nonsense.

So...the Catholic Church's humanitarian work totally doesn't count because they use charity.

That's a convenient way to just sweep all of their help and this Pope's anti-capitalist message under the rug.
2013-12-20 11:43:56 AM  
2 votes:
It is pretty sad that this is the first pope in living memory who has paid more than lip service to what Jesus preached. In fact, one of the few Christian leaders of any sort who has done that.
2013-12-20 11:43:46 AM  
2 votes:

Phinn: Reason. Evidence. Science. Freedom.


That's not a plan. That's a cutsey motto along the lines of "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN."
2013-12-20 11:21:01 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.


This has generally been the position of the RCC, at least for the last 100 or so years.
2013-12-20 11:20:01 AM  
2 votes:

snocone: jaybeezey: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.

You think the pope giving stamps to illegal immigrants in Italy is gonna get Limbaugh's feathers ruffled?

Don't pin all if your hopes on that one.

The only reason you have not seen apoplexy yet, is Rush hasn't had the time to bluster, coming soon.
I put my faith in Rush.


He won't dwell on it. Too many Catholics listen to his BS, and there are ALWAYS plenty of faux-outrages out there to talk about instead. Why, did you hear about the God-fearing, Christian business man who was fired from his top-rated reality show simply for talking about his religious beliefs?
2013-12-20 11:19:18 AM  
2 votes:
I'm not a christian and I dislike the Catholic Church however I do admire this man, the first Pope to tell it like it is and hold the christians feet to the fire of their beliefs.
2013-12-20 11:16:57 AM  
2 votes:

Animatronik: Zeb Hesselgresser: RTFA

Well, somebody is trolling, but it ain't the Pope.

Yup. Conservatives, even the crazy ones, love immigrants who are here legally


LOL

 and would approve of an act of charity for illegal ones too.

MEGA LOL
2013-12-20 11:14:33 AM  
2 votes:

Phinn: PickleBarrel: Phinn: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

Why should we celebrate a glimmer of light when the rest of the world is darkness?

Because you're wasting time, all while you're failing to uinderstand basic economic mechanisms that cause a nearly infinite multiple of hardship greater than this PR stunt alleviated.

But if time-wasting were the only problem, it would be minor.  There is also the affirmative harm caused by disseminating propaganda for religion, which will only serve the interests of religion, the irrationality of which will keep the world in darkness and lies and therefore misery for yet another generation.

But sure, so long as a few people got some stamps and a Christmas card.  It's all cool.

You reward those who do good by saying "atta boy!" even though it doesn't solve all the problems because it's a start to something better.  To ignore and demean someone who does good because it doesn't solve all the problems will snuff that out.

If your goal is to continue with and contribute to the misery and suffering, Phinn, good job! I'm sure many people are very proud of you, especially the rich and powerful who want it this way.

It's not a start to anything good. It's a PR stunt to promote his brand, which in this case is collectivist flavor of Catholicism (or Catholic flavor of collectivism, I guess).

His organization produces nothing except doctrine and fiction posing as fact. Everything it gives it first takes from productive people, by propagating utter nonsense.

These 2,000 people got a card and some stamps. This stunt in trivial in terms of material benefit, but enormously important in terms of perpetuating the reputation of both religion generally and this man's economic bullshiat in particular, which will perpetuate and exacerbate the systemic causes of poverty and hardship for billions of people.

So, fark him.


i750.photobucket.com
2013-12-20 11:05:34 AM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


They have already started since the comments a couple weeks ago regarding money and capitalism.  They have tried to marginalize this Pope already and I think I even heard one of the Fox talking heads wax poetic about the reign of Pope Nazi I (the lowest common demoninators I work with leave FauxNews on in the lunch room 24/7).  The comment basically was that this Pope is only making these comments to distract from the problems the church has - I assume he was referring the sexual abuse issues that the same network ignored for years.  The jist of the converstaion was that this Pope is a marketing guy and not doing this for the 'right' reasons.

This is going to be a real issue for people who have heard, for years, the GOP talk about how they are the party of religion and that the Dem's are heathens with their abortion and homosexual marriage.  This Pope has tried to diffuse both issues with comments that, while he thinks they are a sin, the Church should not spend so much time focusing on them.  If the GOP doesn't focus on them and people start to look at their real politics, they are in more trouble than I thought.

If I didn't know better, I would say this Pope watches FauxNews and reads the website to tailor his messages specifically to attack what the empty suits over there say.
2013-12-20 10:56:05 AM  
2 votes:
I'm not Catholic, but my wife and kids are. I've been to mass a bunch more than I ever planned on.

I will say that I've been fairly impressed with the priests that I've spoken with. It's all personal bias, but they have seemed to be more worldly than their protestant counterparts.
2013-12-20 10:36:25 AM  
2 votes:

MayoSlather: USA Jesus wouldn't give things to immigrants, he would take things away to inspire them to work harder. That's how it works here, you work hard in a servile role when you're a minority, and as a reward you're reincarnated as a White person to work hard at a desk job. Eventually you'll be reincarnated as a rich white republican and you don't have work hard at all, and you get to chastise the masses for wanting more and not working hard enough.


Samsara, 'Murican style.

/the final stage is, of course, derpvana
2013-12-20 10:29:35 AM  
2 votes:
As an aithiast I like this pope. The first rule in picking a head cheer leader for invisible sky wizards should be don't pick an asshat. Only took the church 2000 ish years to figure it out.
2013-12-20 10:27:18 AM  
2 votes:

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


at least in the churches i attend in california, social justice and tolerance are a constant message at mass... and this hasnt changed much between palpatine & francis.
2013-12-20 10:24:56 AM  
2 votes:

Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.


And you'd foster this amongst a billion poor people spread out around the world via what means?

BTW, seems the goal was giving them things to help them stay in touch with family. Sounds fairly successful in that regard.
2013-12-20 10:24:50 AM  
2 votes:
GO! POPE! GO!
2013-12-20 10:20:21 AM  
2 votes:

MayoSlather: USA Jesus wouldn't give things to immigrants, he would take things away to inspire them to work harder.


And then he wouldn't work and live off social security, just like Ayn Rand.
2013-12-20 10:09:26 AM  
2 votes:

hubiestubert: Which is perhaps why the Church chose a Jesuit to lead them. This was a ballsy move within the Church to go with someone like Francis. The Church has been bleeding for some time--money, losing parishoners, and suffering scandal after scandal across the globe--and when the Church needs someone to defend her, to champion her, they turn to the Jesuits who have been loyal to the Pope and the message, and who do their best to try to keep the Church honest.


At this point I am so cynical that I thought the only reason a Jesuit got elected pope was because they had finally been corrupted too. I am pleased to see him acting like a real Jesuit.
2013-12-20 10:07:00 AM  
2 votes:

Nabb1: 2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.

Very much this. He is setting an example for the faithful around the world as well as trying to display compassion for humanity to inspire believers and non-believers alike. It is foolish to view this myopically in terms of the US and our own internal politics.


welcome to farkmurica.
2013-12-20 09:39:03 AM  
2 votes:

BunkoSquad: I'm going to enjoy watching Bill Donahue's head slowly explode


i would pay to see that. him and bryan fischer.
2013-12-20 09:36:37 AM  
2 votes:
I'm going to enjoy watching Bill Donahue's head slowly explode
2013-12-20 09:19:57 AM  
2 votes:

quickdraw: Nabb1: Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.

Has anyone told you you seem a tad literal-minded?


Among other things, sure. Also, I don't see why some people think this is going to create controversy with evangelicals. Protestants don't really follow what the Pope says. That's sort of the point. And evangelicals loathe the Catholic Church and I remember when many considered JPII the Anti-Christ.
2013-12-20 08:50:12 AM  
2 votes:

Mugato: I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.


???
2013-12-20 05:14:38 PM  
1 votes:
"Hey, some bloke did some really nice sh*t for some people in need."

"Awesomes!  My faith in humanity is restored."

"Hey, some God botherer guy in a funny hat did some really nice sh*t for some people in need."

"Excoriate the posturing propaganda leech, selling his fairy tales and trying to boost his ratings!"

But you're changing the world!

Just you!

Just you, you precious enlightened few, from your QWERTY with a Hot Pocket at the ready!

*clicks the "one more dweeb with an ax to grind" counter.

*nobbles Chinese*

Woo.

Wanna impress me with your unimpeachable intellectual acuity and lucidity of vision?

Make a bum a sammich.

The rest is a pissant manifesto hinged, oddly, on God©

Lose the crutch and we'll talk about humanity.
2013-12-20 04:59:10 PM  
1 votes:

Phinn: Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.


Don't forget the people who make ostensibly iron clad, broad and immutable pronouncements about how stuff works!   :  )
2013-12-20 04:29:09 PM  
1 votes:
She musta havea bigga tits!

Boom-ba, boom-ba, boom !

This Pope, at least, seems to be trying to bring the Church back to the role it had played it the past, of helping the poor, educating the illiterate and caring for the ill and elderly. His eschewing of the perks of his office is a nice change ; it almost makes me consider a return to the faith. But then I come back to reality !
2013-12-20 03:14:11 PM  
1 votes:
The pope can't be trolling Rushbo and Princess Sarah.  He's never heard of either of them.
gja [TotalFark]
2013-12-20 03:09:14 PM  
1 votes:

Saul T. Balzac: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


Pope Francis trashes the 'prosperity gospel': Pompous Christians are ugly pagans


"It is an ugly thing, when you see a Christian who doesn't want to humble himself, who doesn't want to serve, a Christian who struts about everywhere: it's ugly, eh? That is not a Christian: that's a pagan!"

Oh, I am SO liking this guy. He is looking like he might just put the spurs to these asshats who wanna talk the talk but refuse to walk the walk.
I hope all the far-right rich assholes have myocardial infarctions. I will be watching this closely.
There may yet be a day that I set foot in a church. Remains to be seen, but this would be an indicator of a good first step.
2013-12-20 02:48:32 PM  
1 votes:

trucktrash: It's nice to see a Christian...I don't know, ACTUALLY BEHAVE LIKE A CHRISTIAN!!


trucktrash: I'm loving watching you shiatbags crawl. GFY!


Well OKAY then!
2013-12-20 02:43:24 PM  
1 votes:
I'm loving this new Pope!  It's nice to see a Christian...I don't know, ACTUALLY BEHAVE LIKE A CHRISTIAN!!  You know, unlike that knuckle-dragging cousin-farking corn-fed bearded inbred from that Douche Dynasty show.  And the rest of the Bible-thumpers.  I'm loving watching you shiatbags crawl. GFY!
2013-12-20 02:32:32 PM  
1 votes:

BunkoSquad: I'm going to enjoy watching Bill Donahue's head slowly explode


I hadn't thought about that! Thanks! That actually made my day.
2013-12-20 02:03:44 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: Around 2 billion people world wide are Catholic. That's almost 1/3rd of the world population.


Sorry slight correction: about 1.2 billion are ROMAN Catholic, several hundred million more are in some level of communion with Rome, and thus take what the Pope says very seriously, but not quite as seriously as the 1.2 billion RCC members.
2013-12-20 01:57:47 PM  
1 votes:
The number of folks who think that Pope is just doing PR really don't understand the scale of the enterprise the Church runs. Around 2 billion people world wide are Catholic. That's almost 1/3rd of the world population. By way of contrast, the US is around 1/20th of the world's population. 

They also don't get that he puts effort into understand what he's talking about, and the proclamations he issues matter. They force the conversation upon those in positions of economic and political power. 

A great discussion on this was just on freakonomics radio:  http://freakonomics.com/2013/12/19/pontiff-icating-on-the-free-market - system-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/
2013-12-20 01:51:06 PM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


Your pejorative connotation of "marketer" implies that it is dishonest.  Care to elucidate?

Seems to me your are so steeped in bullshiat corporate capitalism, you can't even consider that he might be sincere, due to either cynicism or the simple incapacity to conceive otherwise.

Phinn:
If the Discordians handed out free apples and pizza coupons, would they get the cocoa butter handjob treatment on Fark? Or is that sort of praise reserved for religions headed by socialists who wear dresses?

No, because the Discordians do not set an example for over a billion people in the world.

Also, you can't be so foolish as to not realize that improvement gets more praise than consistent good performance.

I'm assuming you are using the phrase "socialist" because you believe he is anti-capitalist or something, and you seem like a libertarian-ish sort.  Well, let me ask you something:

If a charity organization with well-publicized principles (in fact, the basics are contained in the most-printed volume in history) takes voluntary donations from people, and then does what they say they are going to do with it, what exactly are you pissed about?  That they use unproven information or coercive marketing techniques or something?  You might want to start with many other shining examples, like, oh, every group ever that can get away with it.   Sounds to me like the Pope is actually practicing principled capitalism, with messaging, marketing, and adjusting to shifts in consumer behavior and attitudes.  The fact that they are using your tools to speak against your ideology must be infuriating and deeply disturbing for you.
2013-12-20 01:40:35 PM  
1 votes:

Phinn: Pollution is a trespass--the way a polluter is using his property is causing unwanted, harmful substances to interfere with my use of my property.  You can't use your back yard for target practice knowing that your missed shots are going to sail into your neighbor's yard, and you similarly can't spew toxic smoke that rains sulfur on his yard, either.


Actually, a nuisance.  The substantial interference of the use and enjoyment of one's property.
2013-12-20 01:17:38 PM  
1 votes:

Phinn: Graffito: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What about them?  What do you want him to do?

I expect him to stop spreading outright nonsense as though it's true, for starters.

I expect him to stop trying to persuade people to believe things that cause them to stop seeking truth.  Supernatural dogma isn't an answer to any question.  It's worse--it's an anti-answer, in that it actively displaces the right answer we haven't found yet.  If someone asks you for directions to a place, and you say, "I don't know," then you've given no answer.  But if he asks you and you say, "It's that a-way, sir!" but you're completely wrong, then you have actively inhibited his effort to get to his destination.  He's now worse off than if you had simply said nothing, or confessed ignorance.  You've given an actively harmful anti-answer.

That's religion.  It poses as an answer, but is a deliberately false one.


No, not at all. Deliberate implies that there is an active lie, which is only true in cults.

Notice how every time reason provides an answer, religious explanations retreat to the dark corners of the room.  If you explain some phenomenon with reason and evidence, religion backs up and says that "the supernatural beings must have motivated it from a place beyond our current perception."  And so on, and so on, until religion has retreated to its current refuge--the cosmological origins of the universe.  Science can't explain it, so religious nutters hide there, saying, "I'm going to believe this fairy tale until you prove me wrong."

Not how modern religions poses or answers questions. That's the "God of the Gaps" argument, which stopped being relevant at least what, 2500 years ago? You're thinking of pantheism, or Western religions that predate (or never incorporated) Hellenistic philosophy.

As though, somehow, a bunch of goat-herding Levantine sky-worshipers, with no concept of science or logic or even microorganisms, managed to GUESS the true nature of the origins of the universe and were spot-on correct about the whole monotheism concept, and that 2 or 3 thousand years later, after science has managed to invalidate 99.9% of their bullsh*t, we are still obligated to assum ...

Wow. You really don't understand religion at all, do you? You seem to be arguing against things most belief systems don't actually believe or categorically misunderstanding them (I'll assume ignorance and not malice, here).
2013-12-20 01:02:27 PM  
1 votes:

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Odd, I didn't notice the words "illegal" or "undocumented" anywhere in that story.


The general idea behind the headline is that Rush and Palin think the Pope 'appears liberal' and/or 'marxist'.

Then on the politics tab a month ago was the joke with "The Pope is now actively trolling Palin" days after she made her 'the pope might be liberal' comment as the article was on the Pope being against Fraking.

This guy seems to keep being against what those two think are good.

Odd that it keeps working in his favor and he genuinely doesn't give two farks about them, and continues on with his day giving to poor people and taking selfies with Tourists.
2013-12-20 12:57:03 PM  
1 votes:
We build lots of useful things that work just fine.

Then somebody misuses them.

The the subversion / misuse becomes SOP, the justifications become prolix, and the results destroy the usefulness.

Repeat loop, cross fingers, fall on ass again.
2013-12-20 12:40:10 PM  
1 votes:
NEDM:

The History Channel once did a really good tour of the Vatican, a glimmer of what the channel used to be.  When they got to the Vatican Observatory, they talked to its director (I believe), who had a very good quote about all this (this was a priest in direct service to the Pope, for context):  "A science book is always changing, always being kept up to date with new information.  Now, when you look at the Bible, what immediately stands out?  It never changes.  Throughout all the centuries, it stays the same.  Therefore, the Bible is not a science book."

Public Radio show with an excellent interview with two Vatican Astronomers Among other things, a belief in the possibility of intelligent life on other planets.
2013-12-20 12:40:07 PM  
1 votes:

SordidEuphemism: I do not mean to imply that anyone with faith is useless as a scientist. I mean to state that anyone who is satisfied with "Because God" is useless.


Better! Catholics are aware that some members are comforted by the simplicity of fundamentalism. It is not the Catholic stance concerning science whatsoever. These folks (fundamentalists) are abided in the manner of a child's beliefs. It is considered that not every person has the faculty for deeper understanding. Officially they are forgiven and accepted for doing the best they can. The Church itself has no fear of scientific truths. Everything we learn contributes more to the wonder of creation (including ourselves). Even the possibility of life outside of Earth has been specifically addressed and deemed to be no threat to Catholicism by the freakin' Pope.
/not the current one, iirc it was JPII that spoke of extraterrestrial life this way.
2013-12-20 12:33:21 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Speaker2Animals: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.

I hope not the same way they "handled" John Paul I.

I think they'll try to point and laugh, then try to quietly redefine the popes comments. When that doesn't work, they'll likely say he isn't the real pope, or just ignore him as much as possible.


Oh, is it 1378 again already?
2013-12-20 12:32:38 PM  
1 votes:

SordidEuphemism: Felgraf: SordidEuphemism: The suggestion is that someone who is satisfied with the answer 'A Wizard God Did It' is useless. If you're satisfied with the answer, you feel no compulsion to prove or disprove it, and therefore will not be a good scientist.

... Do you *know* any Jesuits?

Actually, yes. My father was trained by Jesuits (but left to join the military). Either I may not be clear, or you may not be parsing correctly. Allow me to attempt to rephrase.

"God did it." That's all some folks need. If you're satisfied with those THREE WORDS, then you're useless in the lab.

"How did God do it?" is a very, very different statement. While it still states belief, it shows a curiosity to discover the underlying mechanics.

I do not mean to imply that anyone with faith is useless as a scientist. I mean to state that anyone who is satisfied with "Because God" is useless.


I don't think any mainstream Christian would disagree with that, and I know it's been official Catholic doctrine since Aquinnah and unofficial doctrine since Augustine of Hippo.

This isn't to say that laity or various cults within the Catholics, Episcopalians, Quakers, Lutherans, et al don't endorse magical thinking (Opus Dei and flagellation come to mind), but it is a heresy.
2013-12-20 12:24:58 PM  
1 votes:

snocone: bunner: Apparently, this Pope is advocating Christianity.

Yea, but I am not sure it will catch on.


Yeah, something usually hijacks it at some juncture, forms splinter groups and the next thing you know, you're beheading heretics.   :  /
2013-12-20 12:07:13 PM  
1 votes:

Inflatable Rhetoric: Inflatable Rhetoric: nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.

No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.

oops, they're useless in the lab.


ARe you suggesting that any religious or spiritual person is useless as a researcher?
2013-12-20 12:07:06 PM  
1 votes:
Apparently, this Pope is advocating Christianity.
2013-12-20 12:01:10 PM  
1 votes:

pkellmey: mbillips: He won't dwell on it. Too many Catholics listen to his BS, and there are ALWAYS plenty of faux-outrages out there to talk about instead.

Do you remember a few weeks ago when the Pope made an anti-consumerism comment that Rush turned into a long rant about how the Pope was anti-capitalist? He made a huge deal about it, even after the Vatican explained that the Pope thought capitalism could be beneficial but that consumerism was where the problems existed. So, I wouldn't put it too far past Rush to misunderstand this as well.



"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy."  ― Wendell Berry
2013-12-20 11:56:36 AM  
1 votes:
Pope Francis: separating the wheat from the chaff.
2013-12-20 11:56:36 AM  
1 votes:

Barbecue Bob: A Christian acting Christ-like and it's international news.
Tells you how sad the planet has become.


Become? It's been like this since humans achieved sentience.
2013-12-20 11:56:22 AM  
1 votes:

nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.


No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.
2013-12-20 11:45:23 AM  
1 votes:

devilEther: Biff_Steel: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Rotating tab of the month: Jennifer Lawrence, George Zimmerman, Pope Francis, etc.

Good idea. Don't forget about that actor dude that died in a car crash. I can't think of his name . . .

Paul Ryan


No, no...it was Scott Walker, wasn't it?
2013-12-20 11:39:01 AM  
1 votes:
The Dono di Maria home was founded by Mother Teresa 25 years ago under Pope John Paul II's blessing...

If this Pope really wanted to demonstrate his support of true compassion, he should start to distance the church from MT. She was nothing but a pious confidence trickster, all about filling the coffers of her organization, offering prayers, not food or medicine to the terminally ill.

I know, I know.  Baby steps.
2013-12-20 11:33:34 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Speaker2Animals: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.

I hope not the same way they "handled" John Paul I.

I think they'll try to point and laugh, then try to quietly redefine the popes comments. When that doesn't work, they'll likely say he isn't the real pope, or just ignore him as much as possible. Thing is, this pope seems like he wants to get in people's faces about the social justice aspects of catholic doctrine. That sort of thing makes robber baron amoral capitalists very uncomfortable. They'd prefer us to accept our role as techno feudal serfs and not get uppity on the whole money issue.


It's a fine line.

They don't want to cause an outright fracture in the now fraying Catholic Protestant alliance that formed after Row V Wade.
2013-12-20 11:26:34 AM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: A Cave Geek: ladodger34: I'm not Catholic, but my wife and kids are. I've been to mass a bunch more than I ever planned on.

I will say that I've been fairly impressed with the priests that I've spoken with. It's all personal bias, but they have seemed to be more worldly than their protestant counterparts.

I have a similar experience.  My fiance is catholic.  I have been much more impressed with them than I expected.  Evangelicals are giving Christianity a bad name

// born and raised Methodist

Did you see the news earlier about the United Methodist Church defrocking a pastor who performed the same-sex marriage ceremony of his son?


No I didn't.  Methodists are a little more tolerant and 'true to the word' than, say Baptists, or Lutherans.  We used to have jokes in my hometown, little side bets about where the Lutheran alter was going to be....they used to move it around monthly. I actually used to be envious of the catholic kids.  They got out of school to go to confirmation classes.

//left the church quite a while ago with a bumper sticker that said "God, save me from your followers"
2013-12-20 11:21:34 AM  
1 votes:

Pangea: cardex: As an aithiast I like this pope. The first rule in picking a head cheer leader for invisible sky wizards should be don't pick an asshat. Only took the church 2000 ish years to figure it out.

You're a what now?


Aithiasts are a splinter group from the orthodox Athiests.  They are sinners who have wandered from the true Athiest path and are an anathema.

Also, PoFrank gave away calling cards and metro passes, things that are actually relevant and useful, as opposed to, say, giving a starving kid a bible (a picture of which I can't seem to find).
2013-12-20 11:20:51 AM  
1 votes:
A century ago in upstate N.Y, where I grew up, there were few black folks so the KKK rallied against the Catholics and the Irish.

Pitching into the Pope really ought to help secure the Hispanic vote,
2013-12-20 11:19:00 AM  
1 votes:

A Cave Geek: ladodger34: I'm not Catholic, but my wife and kids are. I've been to mass a bunch more than I ever planned on.

I will say that I've been fairly impressed with the priests that I've spoken with. It's all personal bias, but they have seemed to be more worldly than their protestant counterparts.

I have a similar experience.  My fiance is catholic.  I have been much more impressed with them than I expected.  Evangelicals are giving Christianity a bad name

// born and raised Methodist


Did you see the news earlier about the United Methodist Church defrocking a pastor who performed the same-sex marriage ceremony of his son?
2013-12-20 11:02:16 AM  
1 votes:
This is classy warfare.

/how many divisions does Rush have?
2013-12-20 10:53:50 AM  
1 votes:

TheDirtyNacho: The other day I was in a waiting room and on the TV was the Fox Five, which appeared to be some show where talking heads 'debate' a topic for a few minutes at a time.  My god, it was awful.  Obvious common sense knowledge and facts were ignored, and one guy appeared to have so much plastic surgery that he had a permanent joker smile on his weird face.  Limbaugh et al, follow this same schtick.

The best way to deal with a slab of human ham like that is to ignore it.  I can't imagine going through life listening to it.


I've had to watch Fox & Friends a few times while sitting in a doctor's waiting room. You can feel your brain cells dying.
2013-12-20 10:51:54 AM  
1 votes:

MrBallou: The article doesn't say where they're immigrants from.

That will determine whether Rush's outrage will be because they're Marxists or because they're Muslims or because they're Sluts.

If it's the DR, he may be OK with it.


It's Italy, so they're probably Albanian or African.
2013-12-20 10:50:23 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


North American evangelicals will just go back to burning crosses in front of the homes of Catholics, like God intended.
2013-12-20 10:47:32 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: RTFA

Well, somebody is trolling, but it ain't the Pope.


Yup. Conservatives, even the crazy ones, love immigrants who are here legally and would approve of an act of charity for illegal ones too.

What they don't like is politically motivated incentives like college tuition for illegal aliens and lack of enforcement of immigration law. that are directed at getting more of the Latino vote.

If Pope Francis spends money on lobbying for these things then subtroll may have a point.
2013-12-20 10:44:15 AM  
1 votes:
The other day I was in a waiting room and on the TV was the Fox Five, which appeared to be some show where talking heads 'debate' a topic for a few minutes at a time.  My god, it was awful.  Obvious common sense knowledge and facts were ignored, and one guy appeared to have so much plastic surgery that he had a permanent joker smile on his weird face.  Limbaugh et al, follow this same schtick.

The best way to deal with a slab of human ham like that is to ignore it.  I can't imagine going through life listening to it.
2013-12-20 10:40:52 AM  
1 votes:
The article doesn't say where they're immigrants from.

That will determine whether Rush's outrage will be because they're Marxists or because they're Muslims or because they're Sluts.

If it's the DR, he may be OK with it.
2013-12-20 10:40:28 AM  
1 votes:

theorellior: Wellon Dowd: My dream dinner party will be attended by me, Pope Francis, Jennifer Lawrence, and the ugliest, most boring guy I can find.

That's a mean thing to do to Jennifer Lawrence.


I dunno, she'd probably like the chance to meet Frankie the Pope.
2013-12-20 10:33:31 AM  
1 votes:
Almost thou makest me a Catholic, Francis.
2013-12-20 10:32:11 AM  
1 votes:

cardex: As an aithiast



Is that someone who doesn't believe in spellcheck?
2013-12-20 10:28:28 AM  
1 votes:
I do not inthk he is trolling them yet.
Now if someone else they hate more and have been decrying as evil incarnite for years came out as vocally opposed to him in such a way that they would have to agree with the person thay claim is evil, and align themselves with it, or go with the pope on this one, and abandon their core tennents. that would be trolling.
2013-12-20 10:27:46 AM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


Variant of the No True Scotsman? He'll probably recant everything now that you've seen through his clever ruse.

img.youtube.com
2013-12-20 10:25:51 AM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


Agreed.
But the Christian Taliban has placed itself about a mile to the right of this Pope.
And, naturally, they have not noticed nor seem to care.
We need a lot more whores getting the bright light of attention and see how it shakes.
2013-12-20 10:24:54 AM  
1 votes:

2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.


Those people don't matter.
2013-12-20 10:22:09 AM  
1 votes:
My dream dinner party will be attended by me, Pope Francis, Jennifer Lawrence, and the ugliest, most boring guy I can find.
2013-12-20 10:21:12 AM  
1 votes:
Considering how many immigrants the Vatican accepts every year, I don't think the pope would be in a position to criticize any country's immigration policy.
2013-12-20 10:20:23 AM  
1 votes:

Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?


What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.
2013-12-20 10:16:07 AM  
1 votes:
RTFA

Well, somebody is trolling, but it ain't the Pope.
2013-12-20 10:16:05 AM  
1 votes:
lh6.googleusercontent.com
Good
2013-12-20 10:11:37 AM  
1 votes:

2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.


And I am sure they are all reading fark.
2013-12-20 10:05:50 AM  
1 votes:

Mugato: I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.


Been hitting the eggnog a little early, have we? :)
2013-12-20 09:43:52 AM  
1 votes:

Mugato: I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.


Pope caught sayof?
2013-12-20 09:40:09 AM  
1 votes:

2wolves: It's not always about the U.S.. Really it isn't. That sort of arrogance is known to irk a large number of people.


Lighten up.
~Francis.
2013-12-20 09:15:52 AM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: Somehow, I don't think the Pope had them in mind when he did this.


Has anyone told you you seem a tad literal-minded?
2013-12-20 08:48:39 AM  
1 votes:
I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.
 
Displayed 131 of 131 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report