If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Huffington Post)   The Pope is trolling Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin again   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 250
    More: Cool, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Christmas presents, emergency shelter, Castel Gandolfo, pope, immigrants, Live On  
•       •       •

18012 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2013 at 10:02 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



250 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-12-20 01:51:06 PM  

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


Your pejorative connotation of "marketer" implies that it is dishonest.  Care to elucidate?

Seems to me your are so steeped in bullshiat corporate capitalism, you can't even consider that he might be sincere, due to either cynicism or the simple incapacity to conceive otherwise.

Phinn:
If the Discordians handed out free apples and pizza coupons, would they get the cocoa butter handjob treatment on Fark? Or is that sort of praise reserved for religions headed by socialists who wear dresses?

No, because the Discordians do not set an example for over a billion people in the world.

Also, you can't be so foolish as to not realize that improvement gets more praise than consistent good performance.

I'm assuming you are using the phrase "socialist" because you believe he is anti-capitalist or something, and you seem like a libertarian-ish sort.  Well, let me ask you something:

If a charity organization with well-publicized principles (in fact, the basics are contained in the most-printed volume in history) takes voluntary donations from people, and then does what they say they are going to do with it, what exactly are you pissed about?  That they use unproven information or coercive marketing techniques or something?  You might want to start with many other shining examples, like, oh, every group ever that can get away with it.   Sounds to me like the Pope is actually practicing principled capitalism, with messaging, marketing, and adjusting to shifts in consumer behavior and attitudes.  The fact that they are using your tools to speak against your ideology must be infuriating and deeply disturbing for you.
 
2013-12-20 01:57:47 PM  
The number of folks who think that Pope is just doing PR really don't understand the scale of the enterprise the Church runs. Around 2 billion people world wide are Catholic. That's almost 1/3rd of the world population. By way of contrast, the US is around 1/20th of the world's population. 

They also don't get that he puts effort into understand what he's talking about, and the proclamations he issues matter. They force the conversation upon those in positions of economic and political power. 

A great discussion on this was just on freakonomics radio:  http://freakonomics.com/2013/12/19/pontiff-icating-on-the-free-market - system-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/
 
2013-12-20 01:59:24 PM  
Dear "Rigidity as Rectitude" fascistas.

All of this "Oh, dear me" posturing solves nothing, repairs nothing, improves nothing.

It's just shouting people off of your lawn.

Humanity doesn't fit into a prefab exoskeleton of "THIS IS AS IT MUST BE" and never has or needed to.  The crust of the motherf*ckers sucking up air around this joint largely don't want to be sick, sad, miserable, dead before their time, starved, wet or lonely.  Period.  That's the battle.  And the things that alleviate those conditions are what matters.  And the rest is a mung pie manifesto for what keeps the rabble on their assigned side of the tracks.  And it's why sh*t burns down every 400 years or so.  I could give a rat's ass about the grown men in dresses with nifty statues faction of Christianity, but the Pope is helping.  He's helping.  Get it?
 
2013-12-20 02:03:44 PM  

Kope: Around 2 billion people world wide are Catholic. That's almost 1/3rd of the world population.


Sorry slight correction: about 1.2 billion are ROMAN Catholic, several hundred million more are in some level of communion with Rome, and thus take what the Pope says very seriously, but not quite as seriously as the 1.2 billion RCC members.
 
2013-12-20 02:05:40 PM  

Clever Neologism: If a charity organization with well-publicized principles (in fact, the basics are contained in the most-printed volume in history) takes voluntary donations from people, and then does what they say they are going to do with it, what exactly are you pissed about?

That they use unproven information or coercive marketing techniques or something?  You might want to start with many other shining examples, like, oh, every group ever that can get away with it. Sounds to me like the Pope is actually practicing principled capitalism, with messaging, marketing, and adjusting to shifts in consumer behavior and attitudes.  The fact that they are using your tools to speak against your ideology must be infuriating and deeply disturbing for you.


I'm not pissed about any of that.  I won't use force to stop the printing of fairy tales, or the handing over of donation money out of guilt inspired by those fairy tales, or the use of (some of) that money to buy 2,000 metro cards and calling cards and postage stamps and handing that FARKING BONANZA out to whomever you want.

I won't even object to their doing these things SOLELY for marketing/branding/PR purposes.  This handout is a perfect example of a pseudo-event, as Daniel Boorstin described in The Image.  It's not meant to accomplish anything that's substantially real; it is an act done for the purpose of show.  Theater.  Attention-getting.

It's expert-level propaganda, by the way, which is not surprising because religion is in the propaganda business, and always have been.  They have no product to sell.  They have been perfecting their skills for a few millennia.  Secular advertising is only now catching up to the methods that religions invented many centuries ago.

I'm just pointing out that Pope Frankie is wrong on both the whole supernatural phenomena thing, and wrong on his economics to boot.  He's doing nothing to actually end poverty, and advocating ideas that make it far worse.  That's an asshole move, and I don't care how many titles or fanbois he has.  An asshole is an asshole.

I would also simply ask that they employ their mad skillz to make and sell things that people actually find useful, like detergent or floor wax or spatulas, instead of pure nonsense.
 
2013-12-20 02:13:02 PM  

wildcardjack: This pope is merely the hottest marketer the Catholic church has had in centuries. Yes, it's all marketing. Washing the feet of the poor, carrying a populist message, not spouting homophobia (in an era when acceptance is widespread); everything is attention whorish and intended to fill pew seats.


Yeah, not like Christians are actually called to be kind to others or anything...
 
2013-12-20 02:13:33 PM  
Exactly how is he advocating ideas that make poverty worse, and why do leading anti-poverty economists like Jeffery Sachs who has now advised two Popes (as well as the UN, Poland, and other nations) on poverty issues disagree with you're assessment?

From his Columbia University Bio (linked above):

Professor Sachs is widely considered to be the world's leading expert on economic development and the fight against poverty. His work on ending poverty, promoting economic growth, fighting hunger and disease, and promoting sustainable environmental practices, has taken him to more than 125 countries with more than 90 percent of the world's population. For more than a quarter century he has advised dozens of heads of state and governments on economic strategy, in the Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. He also advised Pope John Paul II on the encyclical Centesimus Annus. He works closely with international organizations including the African Union, the Asian Development Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank, the African Development Bank, the Islamic Development Bank, the World Health Organization, the United Nations Development Programme, the World Food Programme, UNAIDS, the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, TB, and Malaria, among others.
 
2013-12-20 02:15:23 PM  

Phinn: Clever Neologism: If a charity organization with well-publicized principles (in fact, the basics are contained in the most-printed volume in history) takes voluntary donations from people, and then does what they say they are going to do with it, what exactly are you pissed about? That they use unproven information or coercive marketing techniques or something?  You might want to start with many other shining examples, like, oh, every group ever that can get away with it. Sounds to me like the Pope is actually practicing principled capitalism, with messaging, marketing, and adjusting to shifts in consumer behavior and attitudes.  The fact that they are using your tools to speak against your ideology must be infuriating and deeply disturbing for you.

I'm not pissed about any of that.  I won't use force to stop the printing of fairy tales, or the handing over of donation money out of guilt inspired by those fairy tales, or the use of (some of) that money to buy 2,000 metro cards and calling cards and postage stamps and handing that FARKING BONANZA out to whomever you want.

I won't even object to their doing these things SOLELY for marketing/branding/PR purposes.  This handout is a perfect example of a pseudo-event, as Daniel Boorstin described in The Image.  It's not meant to accomplish anything that's substantially real; it is an act done for the purpose of show.  Theater.  Attention-getting.

It's expert-level propaganda, by the way, which is not surprising because religion is in the propaganda business, and always have been.  They have no product to sell.  They have been perfecting their skills for a few millennia.  Secular advertising is only now catching up to the methods that religions invented many centuries ago.

I'm just pointing out that Pope Frankie is wrong on both the whole supernatural phenomena thing, and wrong on his economics to boot.  He's doing nothing to actually end poverty, and advocating ideas that make it far worse.  That's an asshole move, a ...


By your definition, yet you've yet to propose an argument that isn't prejudiced towards your own perspective. If your argument is truly universal, than it should be one which proceeds logically without resorting to logical fallacies (such as your constant use of the strawman argument and non-standard definitions) and is acceptable based upon agreed-upon axioms. As of yet, your axioms strike me as those proposed by people like Ayn Rand or Richard Dawkins, who have specific agendas and don't mind skewing data to fit them. Show us the thread of your thought, please and be clear as to your definitions. I think we may be talking at cross purposes in some cases.

/Or you could find a local priest or rabbi - they should be more than happy to help you construct a rational, coherent argument with strong, if not irrefutable logic. After all, that's their job.
 
2013-12-20 02:21:31 PM  
I kind of like this Pope.  no homo
 
2013-12-20 02:32:32 PM  

BunkoSquad: I'm going to enjoy watching Bill Donahue's head slowly explode


I hadn't thought about that! Thanks! That actually made my day.
 
2013-12-20 02:43:24 PM  
I'm loving this new Pope!  It's nice to see a Christian...I don't know, ACTUALLY BEHAVE LIKE A CHRISTIAN!!  You know, unlike that knuckle-dragging cousin-farking corn-fed bearded inbred from that Douche Dynasty show.  And the rest of the Bible-thumpers.  I'm loving watching you shiatbags crawl. GFY!
 
2013-12-20 02:47:39 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: RexTalionis: We should have a Francis I tab.

Rotating tab of the month: Jennifer Lawrence, George Zimmerman, Pope Francis, etc.


Butt Plugs, plugs buds, plugs butts.
 
2013-12-20 02:48:32 PM  

trucktrash: It's nice to see a Christian...I don't know, ACTUALLY BEHAVE LIKE A CHRISTIAN!!


trucktrash: I'm loving watching you shiatbags crawl. GFY!


Well OKAY then!
 
2013-12-20 03:00:55 PM  

Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.



Pope Francis trashes the 'prosperity gospel': Pompous Christians are ugly pagans
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-12-20 03:09:14 PM  

Saul T. Balzac: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


Pope Francis trashes the 'prosperity gospel': Pompous Christians are ugly pagans


"It is an ugly thing, when you see a Christian who doesn't want to humble himself, who doesn't want to serve, a Christian who struts about everywhere: it's ugly, eh? That is not a Christian: that's a pagan!"

Oh, I am SO liking this guy. He is looking like he might just put the spurs to these asshats who wanna talk the talk but refuse to walk the walk.
I hope all the far-right rich assholes have myocardial infarctions. I will be watching this closely.
There may yet be a day that I set foot in a church. Remains to be seen, but this would be an indicator of a good first step.
 
2013-12-20 03:14:11 PM  
The pope can't be trolling Rushbo and Princess Sarah.  He's never heard of either of them.
 
2013-12-20 03:30:47 PM  

luidprand: Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.

The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.


I was at mass last Sunday and was very surprised to hear Fr. Tom (our pastor) ask the congregation how many of us believed in evolution, the big bang theory, etc... much to my husband's embarrassment, I (and several other people) raised my hand. Fr. Tom went on to mention that the originator of the the big bang theory was, in fact, a Catholic priest. For the first time in my life, a Catholic priest echoed my own thoughts on the matter - that the Bible is human interpretation of God's word and that 'a day' in the creation of the world didn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant 24 days, weeks, years, thousand years, etc... and that evolution could very well have been a part of God's creation process.

I was stunned. I've ALWAYS believed that. But to hear a priest publicly come out and say that evolution isn't a falsehood, that the two don't have to be mutually exclusive of one another, blew my mind.

Good on ya, Fr. Tom!
 
2013-12-20 03:34:53 PM  

A Cave Geek: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 650x650]


It's still $40 million.
 
2013-12-20 04:09:26 PM  
A Cave Geek:

No I didn't.  Methodists are a little more tolerant and 'true to the word' than, say Baptists, or Lutherans.

Hey, don't lump all Lutherans in with the WELS and Missouri Synod folks.  The ELCA (the largest lutheran denomination, larger than all the others combined) has allowed openly gay ministers for a couple years now.  In addition, while stating abortion should only be considered in the case of rape, danger to the mother, or an fetal non-viability, also state they appose laws that would prevent safe, legal abortions.  While taking no specific stance on creation and evolution, they believe in "interpreting the Bible within its historical contexts and applying critical methods of research".  IOW, they reject bible literalism, and all the craziness it leads to.
 
2013-12-20 04:29:09 PM  
She musta havea bigga tits!

Boom-ba, boom-ba, boom !

This Pope, at least, seems to be trying to bring the Church back to the role it had played it the past, of helping the poor, educating the illiterate and caring for the ill and elderly. His eschewing of the perks of his office is a nice change ; it almost makes me consider a return to the faith. But then I come back to reality !
 
2013-12-20 04:29:23 PM  

Weaver95: they'll likely say he isn't the real pope


Oohh, is there any chance we'll get another antipope? Hasn't it been centuries since we had one of those? I'm sure there's room in Avignon for His Schismatic Excellency.
 
2013-12-20 04:29:35 PM  

digitalrain: luidprand: Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.

The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

I was at mass last Sunday and was very surprised to hear Fr. Tom (our pastor) ask the congregation how many of us believed in evolution, the big bang theory, etc... much to my husband's embarrassment, I (and several other people) raised my hand. Fr. Tom went on to mention that the originator of the the big bang theory was, in fact, a Catholic priest. For the first time in my life, a Catholic priest echoed my own thoughts on the matter - that the Bible is human interpretation of God's word and that 'a day' in the creation of the world didn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant 24 days, weeks, years, thousand years, etc... and that evolution could very well have been a part of God's creation process.

I was stunned. I've ALWAYS believed that. But to hear a priest publicly come out and say that evolution isn't a falsehood, that the two don't have to be mutually exclusive of one another, blew my mind.

Good on ya, Fr. Tom!


Young-earth creationism is not nearly as prevalent in christianity as the loudmouths would have you believe.  It is a minority belief rejected by catholics and many if not most mainline protestant denominations.
 
2013-12-20 04:44:10 PM  

devilEther: Biff_Steel: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Rotating tab of the month: Jennifer Lawrence, George Zimmerman, Pope Francis, etc.

Good idea. Don't forget about that actor dude that died in a car crash. I can't think of his name . . .

Paul Ryan


If only!

Or Scott Walker, at that rate.
But no, it was Paul Walker. (two birds with one stone, it is not.)
 
2013-12-20 04:48:38 PM  

digitalrain: I was at mass last Sunday and was very surprised to hear Fr. Tom (our pastor) ask the congregation how many of us believed in evolution, the big bang theory, etc... much to my husband's embarrassment, I (and several other people) raised my hand. Fr. Tom went on to mention that the originator of the the big bang theory was, in fact, a Catholic priest. For the first time in my life, a Catholic priest echoed my own thoughts on the matter - that the Bible is human interpretation of God's word and that 'a day' in the creation of the world didn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant 24 days, weeks, years, thousand years, etc... and that evolution could very well have been a part of God's creation process.



Astronomy was one of the first applications of science itself during the Scientific Revolution. It was developed against a great deal of opposition.  It took a long time, and a lot of irrational people still dispute it.  Its basic premises are understood by young children now, so it's easy to take it for granted that it wasn't always such common knowledge.

This sort of argument--that the Bible's tale of cosmology is metaphorical--is new.  It's exactly the sort of thing I was describing when I said that religion retreats when science disproves its crap.  It retreats into metaphor.  It retreats into the unknowable.  Astronomers did a great deal of ground-breaking work that fundamentally changed human perception of time and space, but people STILL cling to the fairy tale version IN ANY WAY THEY CAN, even after science opens up new areas of knowledge and method.

Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.
 
2013-12-20 04:59:10 PM  

Phinn: Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.


Don't forget the people who make ostensibly iron clad, broad and immutable pronouncements about how stuff works!   :  )
 
2013-12-20 05:04:53 PM  

nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.


Sir Issac Newton was a Creationist. The only reason he wasn't a Jesuit was it took a lot of money to get the equipment necessary.
He did all of that calculus proofing, physics establishing stuff, as a way to prove God/Intelligent Design did it.

Numerous scientists today believe in God- they want to establish how he could do it, or what happened after he did it.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson has lost respect in my book. As long as they follow scientific procedure, then anyone who believes in God is useful in the lab.
And no matter what you believe- if you distort results to prove "evidence" in your favor, you should lose your degrees/standing in the scientific community. Period.
 
2013-12-20 05:14:38 PM  
"Hey, some bloke did some really nice sh*t for some people in need."

"Awesomes!  My faith in humanity is restored."

"Hey, some God botherer guy in a funny hat did some really nice sh*t for some people in need."

"Excoriate the posturing propaganda leech, selling his fairy tales and trying to boost his ratings!"

But you're changing the world!

Just you!

Just you, you precious enlightened few, from your QWERTY with a Hot Pocket at the ready!

*clicks the "one more dweeb with an ax to grind" counter.

*nobbles Chinese*

Woo.

Wanna impress me with your unimpeachable intellectual acuity and lucidity of vision?

Make a bum a sammich.

The rest is a pissant manifesto hinged, oddly, on God©

Lose the crutch and we'll talk about humanity.
 
2013-12-20 05:20:36 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.

No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.


It is NOT treated as a conclusion; it is treated as the first hypothesis.
Reasonable follow- up question: Okay, how did God do it?
New hypothesis: God did it by making infinitesimally small particles- proceed to experiment stage.

Not that I think God did it, or exists, but scientific integrity  DOES exist, and we need to all we can to promote it from  EVERYONE. Let them follow method and procedure properly, and then we can see what develops from there.
 
2013-12-20 05:29:28 PM  

bunner: "Hey, some bloke did some really nice sh*t for some people in need."

"Awesomes!  My faith in humanity is restored."

"Hey, some God botherer guy in a funny hat did some really nice sh*t for some people in need."

"Excoriate the posturing propaganda leech, selling his fairy tales and trying to boost his ratings!"

But you're changing the world!

Just you!

Just you, you precious enlightened few, from your QWERTY with a Hot Pocket at the ready!

*clicks the "one more dweeb with an ax to grind" counter.

*nobbles Chinese*

Woo.

Wanna impress me with your unimpeachable intellectual acuity and lucidity of vision?

Make a bum a sammich.

The rest is a pissant manifesto hinged, oddly, on God©

Lose the crutch and we'll talk about humanity.


So, before helping the poor, we should work on wiping out religion?

/ show me your workings - there is an error there, curious to see if you can see it.
 
2013-12-20 05:30:19 PM  

Phinn: Graffito: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What about them?  What do you want him to do?

I expect him to stop spreading outright nonsense as though it's true, for starters.

I expect him to stop trying to persuade people to believe things that cause them to stop seeking truth.  Supernatural dogma isn't an answer to any question.  It's worse--it's an anti-answer, in that it actively displaces the right answer we haven't found yet.  If someone asks you for directions to a place, and you say, "I don't know," then you've given no answer.  But if he asks you and you say, "It's that a-way, sir!" but you're completely wrong, then you have actively inhibited his effort to get to his destination.  He's now worse off than if you had simply said nothing, or confessed ignorance.  You've given an actively harmful anti-answer.

That's religion.  It poses as an answer, but is a deliberately false one.

Notice how every time reason provides an answer, religious explanations retreat to the dark corners of the room.  If you explain some phenomenon with reason and evidence, religion backs up and says that "the supernatural beings must have motivated it from a place beyond our current perception."  And so on, and so on, until religion has retreated to its current refuge--the cosmological origins of the universe.  Science can't explain it, so religious nutters hide there, saying, "I'm going to believe this fairy tale until you prove me wrong."

As though, somehow, a bunch of goat-herding Levantine sky-worshipers, with no concept of science or logic or even microorganisms, managed to GUESS the true nature of the origins of the universe and were spot-on correct about the whole monotheism concept, and that 2 or 3 thousand years later, after science has managed to invalidate 99.9% of their bullsh*t, we are still obligated to assum ...



 Odds of them getting it right as compared to winning the lottery, please. Because two people won the lottery a couple of days ago....
 
2013-12-20 05:32:42 PM  

timelady: So, before helping the poor, we should work on wiping out religion?


If you think it's necessary.  I certainly don't.  I think that your projector is broken, sir.

/ show me your workings - there is an error there, curious to see if you can see it.

Judging from the assumptions you've proffered, I'm going to assume reading comprehension.
 
2013-12-20 05:35:25 PM  
You see, a pissant manifesto hinged upon "God is teh stupidz0rs made up sky wiardz0s fairy!1!" is still a pissant manifesto hinged upon God.
 
2013-12-20 05:35:27 PM  

bunner: Phinn: Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.

Don't forget the people who make ostensibly iron clad, broad and immutable pronouncements about how stuff works!   :  )



It's the essence of the scientific approach to reality is to concede that all pronouncements about human knowledge are subject to new evidence and newly proven theories.

In practice, people being fallible, some individual scientists can be as dogmatic as religious people, but at least the scientific approach to reality posits that such dogmatism is wrong.

In contrast, religion stands on doctrine, consists of doctrine, and promulgates doctrine as its core work product.
 
2013-12-20 05:38:02 PM  

Phinn: n contrast, religion stands on doctrine, consists of doctrine, and promulgates doctrine as its core work product.


Things fall over, people die, somebody makes a buck off of all of it.  Pick a god, any god.  Don't show me which on it is.  Put it back into the "Yuh huh!" stack.
 
2013-12-20 05:38:16 PM  

Saul T. Balzac: Weaver95: This pope is going to be a real challenge for the us evangelical community. He isn't with the program, he's actually highlighting the fraud and hypocrisy endemic to this countries powerful semi-Christian organizations. It's going to make the mega churches look pretty bad. Oh they'll lie and say the pope doesn't matter...but the catholic church is pretty influential and everyone knows it.

I honestly don't know how limbaugh is gonna handle this one. It's a lose/lose situation for him and his prosperity gospel buddies.


Pope Francis trashes the 'prosperity gospel': Pompous Christians are ugly pagans


Problem with this is that it gives pagans a bad name. I've known more pagans set up free community gardens, and fight the status quo concerning poverty than I've known "Christians" to...
 
2013-12-20 05:39:07 PM  

Phinn: Clever Neologism: If a charity organization with well-publicized principles (in fact, the basics are contained in the most-printed volume in history) takes voluntary donations from people, and then does what they say they are going to do with it, what exactly are you pissed about? That they use unproven information or coercive marketing techniques or something?  You might want to start with many other shining examples, like, oh, every group ever that can get away with it. Sounds to me like the Pope is actually practicing principled capitalism, with messaging, marketing, and adjusting to shifts in consumer behavior and attitudes.  The fact that they are using your tools to speak against your ideology must be infuriating and deeply disturbing for you.

I'm not pissed about any of that.  I won't use force to stop the printing of fairy tales, or the handing over of donation money out of guilt inspired by those fairy tales, or the use of (some of) that money to buy 2,000 metro cards and calling cards and postage stamps and handing that FARKING BONANZA out to whomever you want.

I won't even object to their doing these things SOLELY for marketing/branding/PR purposes.  This handout is a perfect example of a pseudo-event, as Daniel Boorstin described in The Image.  It's not meant to accomplish anything that's substantially real; it is an act done for the purpose of show.  Theater.  Attention-getting.

It's expert-level propaganda, by the way, which is not surprising because religion is in the propaganda business, and always have been.  They have no product to sell.  They have been perfecting their skills for a few millennia.  Secular advertising is only now catching up to the methods that religions invented many centuries ago.

I'm just pointing out that Pope Frankie is wrong on both the whole supernatural phenomena thing, and wrong on his economics to boot.  He's doing nothing to actually end poverty, and advocating ideas that make it far worse.  That's an asshole move, a ...



Just go back to Rapture, already!
 
2013-12-20 05:48:44 PM  

Phinn: bunner: Phinn: Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.

Don't forget the people who make ostensibly iron clad, broad and immutable pronouncements about how stuff works!   :  )

It's the essence of the scientific approach to reality is to concede that all pronouncements about human knowledge are subject to new evidence and newly proven theories.

In practice, people being fallible, some individual scientists can be as dogmatic as religious people, but at least the scientific approach to reality posits that such dogmatism is wrong.

In contrast, religion stands on doctrine, consists of doctrine, and promulgates doctrine as its core work product.


Their core work product is actually: Someone out there loves you for who you are, and would like to give you serenity in your afterlife, provided you follow basic rules that every society uses to help itself function. There may or may not be additional rules as compared to other belief structures, based on when these laws were put in place, but they get adjusted as we go along.

The current religious set's main problem is that due to tradition, they don't want a new edition of the Bible.
King James was the last one, and those guys butchered the crap out of the Latin involved.

You however, are even more rigid in your structure than the current Pope. Seriously, dude: lighten up.
 
2013-12-20 05:54:13 PM  

bunner: timelady: So, before helping the poor, we should work on wiping out religion?

If you think it's necessary.  I certainly don't.  I think that your projector is broken, sir.

/ show me your workings - there is an error there, curious to see if you can see it.

Judging from the assumptions you've proffered, I'm going to assume reading comprehension.


My username has lady in it, yet you call me sir. And you accuse me of reading comprehension difficulties?

You also failed to answer the question, and in doing so, failed to stand by your statement. By resorting to insult, I think you have demonstrated the intellectual vigour of your premise.

So, in brief, you make grandiose statements, when challenged resort to (erroneous) insult, and think that this is somehow adequate discussion? I am sorry, I assumed I was talking to an adult. We shall move on then. Do have a nice day.
 
2013-12-20 05:58:52 PM  

tlars699: Phinn: bunner: Phinn: Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.

Don't forget the people who make ostensibly iron clad, broad and immutable pronouncements about how stuff works!   :  )

It's the essence of the scientific approach to reality is to concede that all pronouncements about human knowledge are subject to new evidence and newly proven theories.

In practice, people being fallible, some individual scientists can be as dogmatic as religious people, but at least the scientific approach to reality posits that such dogmatism is wrong.

In contrast, religion stands on doctrine, consists of doctrine, and promulgates doctrine as its core work product.

Their core work product is actually: Someone out there loves you for who you are, and would like to give you serenity in your afterlife, provided you follow basic rules that every society uses to help itself function. There may or may not be additional rules as compared to other belief structures, based on when these laws were put in place, but they get adjusted as we go along.

The current religious set's main problem is that due to tradition, they don't want a new edition of the Bible.
King James was the last one, and those guys butchered the crap out of the Latin involved.

You however, are even more rigid in your structure than the current Pope. Seriously, dude: lighten up.



Their core work product is that there is such a thing as an afterlife.  Try to get that straight.

You lighten up, ass-munch. If a few billion people started subscribing to Scientology or the Hale-Bopp cult or astrological numerology, I suspect that even you would see it for the nonsense that it is.  But because Christianity has a better PR department, it gets a pass?  No.

And if billions of people started using astrological or Scientology nonsense to guide their political feelings about how people are going to be forced, by government, to run businesses, pay taxes, recycle their garbage or feed the poorest of the poor, then their nonsense (which I normally would just ridicule and forget) now becomes MY problem.

I'll lighten up the minute that these Christian Socialist assholes convince me that, when they leave their cult indoctrination center and head over to the voting booth, they are sincere about keeping their hands to themselves and out of other people's pockets.  So far, I'm not seeing it.
 
2013-12-20 06:05:09 PM  

timelady: My username has lady in it, yet you call me sir. And you accuse me of reading comprehension difficulties?


Absolutely meaningless here.

timelady: You also failed to answer the question, and in doing so, failed to stand by your statement. By resorting to insult, I think you have demonstrated the intellectual vigour of your premise.


No, you misinterpreted the gist of my statement.  The premise was that all the people come here to piss and moan loud and long about something they don't believe in, that doesn't exist, offer no remedy or proactive assertions to seek such, but ather use ANY bolthole to to whine about the "god botherers!"

timelady: o, in brief, you make grandiose statements, when challenged resort to (erroneous) insult, and think that this is somehow adequate discussion? I am sorry, I assumed I was talking to an adult. We shall move on then. Do have a nice day.


That's a pretty long and up the wrong road sprint for a dime store, pissy insult, ain't it?   :  )
 
2013-12-20 06:12:33 PM  
Phinn: digitalrain: I was at mass last Sunday and was very surprised to hear Fr. Tom (our pastor) ask the congregation how many of us believed in evolution, the big bang theory, etc... much to my husband's embarrassment, I (and several other people) raised my hand. Fr. Tom went on to mention that the originator of the the big bang theory was, in fact, a Catholic priest. For the first time in my life, a Catholic priest echoed my own thoughts on the matter - that the Bible is human interpretation of God's word and that 'a day' in the creation of the world didn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant 24 days, weeks, years, thousand years, etc... and that evolution could very well have been a part of God's creation process.

Astronomy was one of the first applications of science itself during the Scientific Revolution. It was developed against a great deal of opposition.  It took a long time, and a lot of irrational people still dispute it.  Its basic premises are understood by young children now, so it's easy to take it for granted that it wasn't always such common knowledge.

This sort of argument--that the Bible's tale of cosmology is metaphorical--is new.  It's exactly the sort of thing I was describing when I said that religion retreats when science disproves its crap.  It retreats into metaphor.  It retreats into the unknowable.  Astronomers did a great deal of ground-breaking work that fundamentally changed human perception of time and space, but people STILL cling to the fairy tale version IN ANY WAY THEY CAN, even after science opens up new areas of knowledge and method.


No, it isn't. In Abrahamaic faiths, it's been that way since at least the Babylonian exile. Christ himself says it's parable in the New Testament. In fact, the widespread use of the concept that it isn't metaphor and/or parable dates to the mid 19th Century. rior to that, it was heresy.

Religious people think this way -- they assume their fairy tales are true, and only concede the facts they are forced to concede.  Like a kid holding onto a security blanket, they hold onto each tattered shred for as long as possible, even as rational thought strips it away, bit by bit.

You want to read what Catholics all believe is true? Here you go:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

*note that here "catholic" means "universal", as in applicable to all, not RCC

You show me how that can be scientifically tested, and I'll show you the world beating a path to your door, as you'll be known as the developer of the single most common experiment ever conceived of.
 
2013-12-20 06:39:22 PM  

Wellon Dowd: My dream dinner party will be attended by me, Pope Francis, Jennifer Lawrence, and the ugliest, most boring guy I can find.


You plan to enjoy this party so much you attend twice?
 
2013-12-20 07:05:18 PM  

Mugato: I have no love for Rush or Palin but the Pope might a little more cred if he you know, didn't have his own country.


I think owning your own country gives you tons of street cred.
 
2013-12-20 07:22:45 PM  

NEDM: SordidEuphemism: Felgraf: Inflatable Rhetoric: Inflatable Rhetoric: nekom: luidprand:
The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that if you want to believe that god did it and you're content with that, that's fine but you are useless in the lab.  Perhaps the Jesuits bridge that gap.  Ok God did it, but let's discover how this grand creation really works.

No, once they say "god did it," their useless in the lab.  You can't start with the conclusion.

oops, they're useless in the lab.

ARe you suggesting that any religious or spiritual person is useless as a researcher?

The suggestion is that someone who is satisfied with the answer 'A Wizard God Did It' is useless. If you're satisfied with the answer, you feel no compulsion to prove or disprove it, and therefore will not be a good scientist.

Even when they take the tack of "Okay, in the grand scheme of things God was that "spark" initiated the process, but since that's not relevant to science we'll focus on the actual grit,"?  Jesuits don't just go "God Did It!" and expect that to be a sufficient answer.  You have them confused with Southern Baptists.


The History Channel once did a really good tour of the Vatican, a glimmer of what the channel used to be.  When they got to the Vatican Observatory, they talked to its director (I believe), who had a very good quote about all this (this was a priest in direct service to the Pope, for context):  "A science book is always changing, always being kept up to date with new information.  Now, when you look at the Bible, what immediately stands out?  It never changes.  Throughout all the centuries, it stays the same.  Therefore, the Bible is not a science book."


Ah, but then the problem arises with man writing, translating, and sometimes even making malicious edits to the Bible.
 
2013-12-20 08:00:08 PM  
I want to live in this dude's country. I wonder if you can become a citizen by marrying another citizen.
 
2013-12-20 08:43:42 PM  
You know what, subby, you may very well be correct.  He may very well be trolling these farkers.
 
2013-12-20 08:58:19 PM  
quickdraw:

Nah this is the writing on the wall for them and they know it. They've had a good run but this is the end of a unified christian prosperity gospel. Seriously, the corruption under the last popester must have been so awful and so provable that the church needed to put this guy in charge or lose the whole thing. I dunno - it's a miracle really. However it happened its a serious shift in the zeitgeist to which I can only say Hallelujah!

Writing on the wall? " mene mene tekel upharsin "

 Perhaps the last of the hidden Fatima visions indicated this "Serious Shift" should occur right about now.
 All things and All Persons are ready and able...
 The time has come, and the Church is preparing for...
 the Final Act

The Fatima visions?
No, they have never been revealed to anyone but the Pope.
Very much like the sword in the stone,
 Each of the previous popes failed to open its meaning, thus can not wield the sword,
then passing it on to the next in line.
 only the Divinely Chosen Pope could open it, understand it, then also wield it.
Heads are rolling, as we can see...The Sword , it is Singing.

Brr its chilly in here.
 
2013-12-20 09:23:29 PM  

digitalrain: luidprand: Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: Phinn: Great.  An international calling card and a day pass for the metro.  And some stamps.

What about the other hmm...hmm billion people living in poverty and the other 364 days of the year?

What's your plan for them? Sounds like you have some alternatives.

Reason.  Evidence.  Science.  Freedom.

The Pope is already a Jesuit. Can't get more based in reason, evidence, science, and freedom than that.

I was at mass last Sunday and was very surprised to hear Fr. Tom (our pastor) ask the congregation how many of us believed in evolution, the big bang theory, etc... much to my husband's embarrassment, I (and several other people) raised my hand. Fr. Tom went on to mention that the originator of the the big bang theory was, in fact, a Catholic priest. For the first time in my life, a Catholic priest echoed my own thoughts on the matter - that the Bible is human interpretation of God's word and that 'a day' in the creation of the world didn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It could have meant 24 days, weeks, years, thousand years, etc... and that evolution could very well have been a part of God's creation process.

I was stunned. I've ALWAYS believed that. But to hear a priest publicly come out and say that evolution isn't a falsehood, that the two don't have to be mutually exclusive of one another, blew my mind.

Good on ya, Fr. Tom!


This!
 I can watch evolution in realtime among the plants & animals in my yard, and in myself [micro changes, detectable]

The Time scale: There's an App for that in the NT.
2 Peter 3:8
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Doing the math, 7 k yrs = 2.555 billion years... or more depending on factors we don't know about yet.
The Sun & Earth likely were not always on the same timescale as today, the "heartbeat of Time" maybe slower...  and the force of gravity weaker.

Looking into the heavens, past and through numerous gravity wells, some scientists have theorised that much of what we think we see and try to measure may be endless holographic reflections...
I agree.

[i could go on, but you can't have warp drive just now]
 
2013-12-21 12:04:57 AM  
Not even christian, but I like this Pope. I'm gonna love him once he hocks all that gold shiat to give to the poor.
 
2013-12-21 12:55:49 AM  

vernonFL: I really like the Pope.


Me too!
 
Displayed 50 of 250 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report