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(Mother Jones)   You never know what kinds of interesting reading material you'll find in the Library of Congress, like perhaps a super secret interrogation manual from the FBI that contains no redactions   (motherjones.com) divider line 115
    More: Dumbass, Library of Congress, FBI, estimates, Steven Aftergood, natural kind, interrogation manual, Julian Sanchez, CIA interrogations  
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10333 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2013 at 9:28 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-20 09:33:52 AM
Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.
 
2013-12-20 09:36:13 AM
Yes, because if we want respect it's always best to act like the bad guys do in any civil liberties situation.
 
2013-12-20 09:38:40 AM
In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Catholic Church and the Pope attempted to intervene in the bloody Spanish Inquisition but were unable to wrench the extremely useful political tool from the hands of the Spanish rulers.

so note
torture = a very useful political tool
 
2013-12-20 09:43:34 AM

ZeroCorpse: Yes, because if we want respect it's always best to act like the bad guys do in any civil liberties situation.


'Like' the bad guys? Uhhhhh
 
2013-12-20 09:46:42 AM
The FBI are cops. What are cops doing with secret interrogation procedures? Military intelligence gatherers working on POWs, or CIA agents, I can see having some secret tricks, but the FBI are supposed to treat suspects the same way local cops do. Or do local cops have secret interrogation manuals, too?
 
2013-12-20 09:47:57 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.


You know, there are legal and effective interrogation methods that don't involve abuse and torture.


Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.

While they are unabashed liberal, have they ever made a false claim?
 
2013-12-20 09:48:31 AM
"So the next time I tell you pricks in the Requisition Department I need more Sharpie's you'll know I'm not screwing around.  Got it?"
 
2013-12-20 09:51:38 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.


Yeah, it's totally awesome for the FBI to instructed in faking evidence to hide abusive treatment.

Go government! You can't possibly do bad things!
 
2013-12-20 09:51:59 AM
If anyone with a library card could read it, I wonder how many children are going to opt for interrogation stands instead of selling lemonade this coming Summer?
 
2013-12-20 09:52:13 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJonesPhineas is garbage anyway


Nice to see I have you color-coded the correct shade of redtard red.
 
2013-12-20 09:52:48 AM
"...not very uncommon..."

So I guess these security breeches are common.
 
2013-12-20 09:54:09 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.


Well, sure. I mean, if you can't administer shocks to someone, point firearms at them, "simulate" their suffocation/drowning, beat them up, deprive them of sleep, food, or water, make them stand still or hold an awkward position for long periods of time, or subject them to extreme heat or cold, how are we supposed to ask them any questions at all?

It's not like we got valuable information from Saddam Hussein with Raisin Bran, Doritos, and friendship, right? Nah, we should just waterboarded him or fired a few rounds near his restrained body (right, Allen West?).
 
2013-12-20 09:55:39 AM

mbillips: The FBI are cops. What are cops doing with secret interrogation procedures? Military intelligence gatherers working on POWs, or CIA agents, I can see having some secret tricks, but the FBI are supposed to treat suspects the same way local cops do. Or do local cops have secret interrogation manuals, too?


The REALLY funny part is, there's no "secret" to crap like waterboarding.  It's been around for centuries; long before we were forcing confessions of witchcraft back in colonial days.

The only problem...aside from the ethics, of course....is the ridiculously high noise-to-signal ratio.

Basically the sort of people who believe torture is useful are the sort of people who believe witchcraft exists.

Heck, we've got the signed confessions to prove it...
 
2013-12-20 09:56:47 AM

mbillips: The FBI are cops. What are cops doing with secret interrogation procedures? Military intelligence gatherers working on POWs, or CIA agents, I can see having some secret tricks, but the FBI are supposed to treat suspects the same way local cops do. Or do local cops have secret interrogation manuals, too?


Practically speaking, any organization that employs a non-trivial amount of people would have all kinds of internal handbooks and training manuals for new people and to keep everyone else up to speed. Any company with an HR department will probably, at minimum, come with an employee handbook. Now, if the manual says "here's how to torture people while making it look good for court", that's a different problem.
 
2013-12-20 09:59:37 AM

bindlestiff2600: In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Catholic Church and the Pope attempted to intervene in the bloody Spanish Inquisition but were unable to wrench the extremely useful political tool from the hands of the Spanish rulers.

so note
torture = a very useful political tool


According to reliable sources, no matter how much you reasoned or begged, you couldn't Torquemada anything...

/ No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
 
2013-12-20 10:07:16 AM
FTA: A redacted sentence in the manual says the document is intended for use by the FBI's "clean" teams-investigators who collect information intended for use in federal prosecutions.
...
Another section, blacked out in the version provided to the ACLU, encourages FBI agents to stage a "date-stamped full-body picture" of a detainee, complete with a bottle of water, for use in refuting abuse allegations at trial.

Why the fark do these sections require being redacted? What individual source does this protect? Is this so our enemies don't get the ever so clever idea of staging a picture of humane treatment while abusing them later on?

What the hell?
 
2013-12-20 10:12:42 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.


You must be proud of how your mamma-sister-aunt-grandma and daddy-brother-uncle-grandpa have kept everything in the family so long. Torture DOES NOT PRODUCE USEFUL INFORMATION. This has long been confirmed scientifically. Torture produces statements based on what the torture victim thinks the torturers want to hear, REGARDLESS of whether or not they are true. Now, go back to farking your sister-daughter.
 
2013-12-20 10:13:47 AM
Yeah, sure that's really just bottled water.
 
2013-12-20 10:14:34 AM
This was a liberal plant.  FALSE FLAG!!

static.guim.co.uk
 
2013-12-20 10:14:55 AM

Mr. Shabooboo: bindlestiff2600: In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Catholic Church and the Pope attempted to intervene in the bloody Spanish Inquisition but were unable to wrench the extremely useful political tool from the hands of the Spanish rulers.

so note
torture = a very useful political tool

According to reliable sources, no matter how much you reasoned or begged, you couldn't Torquemada anything...

/ No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


ouch
that hurt
 
2013-12-20 10:15:17 AM

imashark: FTA: A redacted sentence in the manual says the document is intended for use by the FBI's "clean" teams-investigators who collect information intended for use in federal prosecutions.
...
Another section, blacked out in the version provided to the ACLU, encourages FBI agents to stage a "date-stamped full-body picture" of a detainee, complete with a bottle of water, for use in refuting abuse allegations at trial.

Why the fark do these sections require being redacted? What individual source does this protect? Is this so our enemies don't get the ever so clever idea of staging a picture of humane treatment while abusing them later on?


No, and you shouldn't be so stupid as to need to ask. These things "need" to be redacted so that a defense cannot raise the possibility of torture or mistreatment by the FBI. If this is known to exist in the interrogation manual, then it is trivial to raise reasonable doubt over any attempts by the FBI to oppose claims of torture or mistreatment. Thus, to cover their asses over how they torture and mistreat prisoners and then stage counter-evidence (actually, how they probably stage the fake counter-evidence and THEN torture), they redact this instruction.
 
2013-12-20 10:15:58 AM

mbillips: The FBI are cops. What are cops doing with secret interrogation procedures? Military intelligence gatherers working on POWs, or CIA agents, I can see having some secret tricks, but the FBI are supposed to treat suspects the same way local cops do. Or do local cops have secret interrogation manuals, too?


Because cops are the functionaries of our Lords and Masters, of course.
 
2013-12-20 10:17:11 AM
You have got to love incompetence.

Good that this was discovered. There are too many secrets in Government.
 
2013-12-20 10:17:27 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.


Yeah, nothing wrong with water boarding or beating people until they confess to anything.
 
2013-12-20 10:36:04 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.


Bring out the comfy chair!
 
2013-12-20 10:36:57 AM

bindlestiff2600: In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Catholic Church and the Pope attempted to intervene in the bloody Spanish Inquisition but were unable to wrench the extremely useful political tool from the hands of the Spanish rulers.

so note
torture Calling your opponents a jew/witch... whatever and using the inquisition to kill them and then steal their assets for the state= a very useful political tool

 
2013-12-20 10:39:37 AM
...including favorable references to the KUBARK manual, a 1963 CIA interrogation guidebook that encouraged torture methods, including electric shocks.


Holy shiat-- the CIA and FBI include electrocution and other torture techniques IN THEIR TRAINING MANUALS?!?

When it comes to human rights, we really are worse than the Soviet Union and East Germany.


The directors of those agencies and Obama need to brought up on crimes against humanity.


I weep for my nation.
 
2013-12-20 10:48:49 AM

Mr. Shabooboo: bindlestiff2600: In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Catholic Church and the Pope attempted to intervene in the bloody Spanish Inquisition but were unable to wrench the extremely useful political tool from the hands of the Spanish rulers.

so note
torture = a very useful political tool

According to reliable sources, no matter how much you reasoned or begged, you couldn't Torquemada anything...

/ No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


well, let's begin!
 
2013-12-20 10:50:23 AM

elvisaintdead: Mr. Shabooboo: bindlestiff2600: In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Catholic Church and the Pope attempted to intervene in the bloody Spanish Inquisition but were unable to wrench the extremely useful political tool from the hands of the Spanish rulers.

so note
torture = a very useful political tool

According to reliable sources, no matter how much you reasoned or begged, you couldn't Torquemada anything...

/ No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

well, let's begin!


Send in the nuns.
 
2013-12-20 10:53:02 AM

mgshamster: "...not very uncommon..."

So I guess these security breeches are common.


That's not unlike what the author was suggesting.
 
2013-12-20 11:04:11 AM

Riche: ...including favorable references to the KUBARK manual, a 1963 CIA interrogation guidebook that encouraged torture methods, including electric shocks.


Holy shiat-- the CIA and FBI include electrocution and other torture techniques IN THEIR TRAINING MANUALS?!?

When it comes to human rights, we really are worse than the Soviet Union and East Germany.


The directors of those agencies and Obama need to brought up on crimes against humanity.


I weep for my nation.


Yes, let's hold today's administration and agency leadership accountable for a book written in 1963. Send them before congress! Send them to jail! Strip them of their rights and civil liberties! I personally love defending crimes and bad decisions made by my predecessors in my job, I'm sure they will too!
 
2013-12-20 11:08:41 AM

bindlestiff2600: In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure


It's good to have rules.
 
2013-12-20 11:08:56 AM
So, where can we find links to scans of this manual, anyway?
 
2013-12-20 11:09:56 AM

mgshamster: "...not very uncommon..."

So I guess these security breeches are common.


Do security breeches have onions in their belts?
 
2013-12-20 11:10:38 AM

Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.


Even my dumb liberal ass knows it's B-R-E-A-T-H-E for the verb.

I can't breath? No.
Take a breath. Yes.
I can't breathe.
Take this inhaler.
 
2013-12-20 11:12:40 AM

mgshamster: "...not very uncommon..."

So I guess these security breeches are common.


Those are called Depends.


/didn't set out to be the SS grammar po-po of the thread
 
2013-12-20 11:16:12 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Phineas: Hopefully this will force the FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, to limit their interrogation techniquest to 'asking the suspect nicely' and 'tickling the suspect until they giggle, but not so much that they can't breath'.

Anything from MotherJones is garbage anyway, but at least they don't pretend to be a legitimate news source, they fully embrace their liberal whargbgargl.

Bring out the comfy chair!


Just have mercy...please...no soft cushions!!
 
2013-12-20 11:21:00 AM

Riche: ...including favorable references to the KUBARK manual, a 1963 CIA interrogation guidebook that encouraged torture methods, including electric shocks.


Holy shiat-- the CIA and FBI include electrocution and other torture techniques IN THEIR TRAINING MANUALS?!?

When it comes to human rights, we really are worse than the Soviet Union and East Germany.


The directors of those agencies and Obama need to brought up on crimes against humanity.


I weep for my nation.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-20 11:35:45 AM

mbillips: The FBI are cops. What are cops doing with secret interrogation procedures? Military intelligence gatherers working on POWs, or CIA agents, I can see having some secret tricks, but the FBI are supposed to treat suspects the same way local cops do. Or do local cops have secret interrogation manuals, too?


This
 
m00
2013-12-20 11:35:52 AM

Charlie Crews' Zen Master: Riche: ...including favorable references to the KUBARK manual, a 1963 CIA interrogation guidebook that encouraged torture methods, including electric shocks.


Holy shiat-- the CIA and FBI include electrocution and other torture techniques IN THEIR TRAINING MANUALS?!?

When it comes to human rights, we really are worse than the Soviet Union and East Germany.


The directors of those agencies and Obama need to brought up on crimes against humanity.


I weep for my nation.

Yes, let's hold today's administration and agency leadership accountable for a book written in 1963. Send them before congress! Send them to jail! Strip them of their rights and civil liberties! I personally love defending crimes and bad decisions made by my predecessors in my job, I'm sure they will too!


Um, I think you got it wrong.

The training manual in question is the current training manual, which makes favorable references to the torture book written in 1963. The current administration shouldn't be held accountable for a torture book written in 1963, but they should be held accountable if it's referenced in their current manual.
 
2013-12-20 11:35:57 AM

qorkfiend: Riche: ...including favorable references to the KUBARK manual, a 1963 CIA interrogation guidebook that encouraged torture methods, including electric shocks.


Holy shiat-- the CIA and FBI include electrocution and other torture techniques IN THEIR TRAINING MANUALS?!?

When it comes to human rights, we really are worse than the Soviet Union and East Germany.


The directors of those agencies and Obama need to brought up on crimes against humanity.


I weep for my nation.

[i.imgur.com image 618x407]


Since when does holding people accountable to their illegal actions deserve a face palm?
 
2013-12-20 11:38:24 AM
Uh, to everyone wailing and gnashing their teeth about how this means we are horrible people and Obama is a horrible person and how this is so unexpected:

This is an FBI training manual from 1963.

That would mean this is an FBI training manual from the time period that J. Edgar Hoover was the head of the FBI.

You're SURPRISED there's horrible shiat in there?!

Let me say again, J Edgar Hoover.
 
m00
2013-12-20 11:38:44 AM

Riche: Since when does holding people accountable to their illegal actions deserve a face palm?


People's minds read what it wants to read when dealing with a President of the same political party.
 
2013-12-20 11:39:18 AM

m00: The training manual in question is the current training manual, which makes favorable references to the torture book written in 1963. The current administration shouldn't be held accountable for a torture book written in 1963, but they should be held accountable if it's referenced in their current manual.


Whoop, really? I appear to have gotten mistaken myself.

Nevermind.
 
2013-12-20 11:42:52 AM

Riche: Since when does holding people accountable to their illegal actions deserve a face palm?


Since it's referring to a book written in 1963.
 
m00
2013-12-20 11:52:28 AM

Felgraf: m00: The training manual in question is the current training manual, which makes favorable references to the torture book written in 1963. The current administration shouldn't be held accountable for a torture book written in 1963, but they should be held accountable if it's referenced in their current manual.

Whoop, really? I appear to have gotten mistaken myself.

Nevermind.


From the article:

The version of the interrogation manual the agent deposited with the copyright office is dated August 18, 2008, but it wasn't filed until January 2010. The redacted version released to the ACLU is dated February 23, 2011.

...

Another section, blacked out in the version provided to the ACLU, encourages FBI agents to stage a "date-stamped full-body picture" of a detainee, complete with a bottle of water, for use in refuting abuse allegations at trial.

...

What's interesting is that people read that, then hone in on 1963 and say "Well the Obama Administration can't be held accountable for that!"
 
m00
2013-12-20 11:53:37 AM

Felgraf: Whoop, really? I appear to have gotten mistaken myself.

Nevermind.


(dunno why this got cut out of my post)

The ACLU has previously criticized the interrogation manual for endorsing the isolation of detainees and including favorable references to the KUBARK manual, a 1963 CIA interrogation guidebook that encouraged torture methods, including electric shocks. The group has also expressed concern that the manual adopts aspects of the Reid Technique, a common law enforcement interview method that has been known to produce false confessions. A redacted sentence in the manual says the document is intended for use by the FBI's "clean" teams-investigators who collect information intended for use in federal prosecutions. That raises the question of whether teams collecting information that's not for use in federal courts would have to follow the manual's (already permissive) guidelines at all.
 
2013-12-20 11:54:11 AM
Wait, reading the article again, it STILL looks like it doesn'tsay "THIS IS HOW YOU TORTURE PEOPLE". It DOES favorably  *mention* *to a manual the FBI used in 1963, which DID contain torture stuff (But, for all I know, also contained *some* useful, non-torture techniques. I've never read the KUBRAK manual.)

This handbook did NOT say "ELECTROSHOCK PEOPLE"., according to the article

I would actualy like to see the manual/page of the manual in question to see how it refers to that book.

Similarly, I'd like to actually READ the part that talks about staging "A date-stamped full-body picture" of a detainee, complete with a bottle of water, for use in refuting abuse allegations at trial.

Largely because the fact that the only part IN quotes in that sentence is "A date-stamped full-body picture", which... *would* be useful in refuting allegations of abuse, especially if you didn't abuse the prisoner. "HEre is a date-stamped photo immediately after our interrogation." Does it tell them to *falsify* this? Does it just use the word 'staged' (which they use in the article, but DON'T include in the quotes... and which may mean 'falsify' as much as 'manipulate the data' meant falsify w/regards to climate research. I.e. not at all.)

I think I'd need to actually page through the manual myself. Is it online, or is there only a *physical* copy in the library of congress?
 
2013-12-20 11:55:32 AM
I honestly don't see how sensitive information could have gotten past their security experts.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-20 11:57:07 AM
1) Tie interrogation subject to chair.
2) Beat the subject with whatever is handy.
3) Repeat step 2 until subject talks or dies.
 
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