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(NPR)   Providing healthcare to all of their citizens wasn't good enough for Canada, they had to go and show up the US by fixing credit cards as well   (npr.org) divider line 69
    More: Spiffy, interim, Brian Krebs, credit cards, U.S., Google Wallet, security engineering, credit card numbers, data store  
•       •       •

4364 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Dec 2013 at 9:23 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-20 08:54:35 AM
"The U.S. is ahead in terms of consumer protection, and if you're thinking about the public interest and how things affect you as a bank customer, that's by far the most important thing," Anderson says. "How the banks use technical mechanisms to limit their own exposure then simply becomes an engineering problem for them to solve."


Screw you, Canada!
 
2013-12-20 09:29:58 AM
Wow, we've had chip cards for years. The US truly is a third world country.
 
2013-12-20 09:31:55 AM
Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.
 
2013-12-20 09:32:55 AM
I just hate it when the sales clerk looks at my card and, with eyes wide, says "You'll have to sign for this."

Magnetic stripes are like feet and pounds, and the whole world left us behind with their fancified meters and grams.
 
2013-12-20 09:40:07 AM

Toquinha: Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.


We got a chip and pin card specifically for our trip to Europe earlier this year.  We only used the card while over there.  This was 7 months ago and we have not used it since.  Got contacted by the fraud department just last week.  All of a sudden there is a ton of activity on the card and it's not us.  So apparently the number was collected while we were in Europe.
 
2013-12-20 09:49:10 AM
Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy and Canada is the ugly girl happy with her dead end job with a heart of gold.  Both images of which each country tries to maintain to fit into this world.
 
2013-12-20 09:53:38 AM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy and Canada is the ugly girl happy with her dead end job with a heart of gold.  Both images of which each country tries to maintain to fit into this world.


Gotta take real issue with you sayin' Canada's ugly compared to America.
 
2013-12-20 09:56:21 AM

starsrift: Gotta take real issue with you sayin' Canada's ugly compared to America.


Well my analogy is probably biased because I'm American, sorry.  I'm part of the problem....
 
2013-12-20 09:57:15 AM

Toquinha: Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.


Because hardly any place takes AMEX.

/ :)
 
2013-12-20 10:10:06 AM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy and Canada is the ugly girl happy with her dead end job with a heart of gold.  Both images of which each country tries to maintain to fit into this world.


You're adorable.
 
2013-12-20 10:12:25 AM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States. Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally. Just like the Scandinavian countries.


You don't really know a lot about Canada do you?
 
2013-12-20 10:13:44 AM

RedTank: starsrift: Gotta take real issue with you sayin' Canada's ugly compared to America.

Well my analogy is probably biased because I'm American, sorry.  I'm part of the problem....


data3.whicdn.com
Got it spot-on.
 
2013-12-20 10:13:55 AM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.


How does the population size or racial composition of Canada or the US affect bankings laws?
 
2013-12-20 10:30:26 AM

Tyrosine: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States. Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally. Just like the Scandinavian countries.

You don't really know a lot about Canada do you?


Well let me elaborate then...  I understand the French vs everyone else cultural clash... but they are mostly on the same page politically yes because they have this self-inflicted separate but equal thing happening?

As far as racial tension, I'm again speaking politically.  The vast majority of Canadians that also care about politics are one ethnicity.  In America every race demands to be represented at all costs.
 
2013-12-20 10:31:20 AM
Europe had chip-in-card security back in the mid-90's for fark's sake.
 
2013-12-20 10:34:35 AM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy and Canada is the ugly girl happy with her dead end job with a heart of gold.  Both images of which each country tries to maintain to fit into this world.


If America is pretty and rich, that wont be for long the way America is doing things. You know, like not investing in infastructure or science and arguing over wether or not its a good idea that more people have access to healthcare or not. Even though, those who don't have adaquate access to healthcare become a drain on society if they don't. So its kind of a good idea to have a level playing field, because if millions of Americans are doing more than just surviving they can contribute more to society. Which boosts the economy, go figure.

Also, Canada looks plenty sexy. Access to healthcare (I haven't been to a doctor properly in a years due to a lack of moola), a government that can actually get things done like immigration reform while Republicans seem to have given up on it completely, etc. Granted, they have become as anti-science as the United States in some regards and way more apathetic. Oh, and they have slower internet on average than the United States. Another minus, but on average I wouldn't classify Canada as ugly compared to the US.
 
2013-12-20 10:36:05 AM

Flab: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

How does the population size or racial composition of Canada or the US affect bankings laws?


Because I believe that larger populations with competing priorities (racial composition is a large part of that) are more prone to overreacting, more likely to react slowly unless faced with an imminent threat, and most important more prone to corruption.

So perhaps that leads to banks being less restricted, taking bigger risks, and then also being able to diffuse the blame should something happen.
 
2013-12-20 10:45:08 AM

bbfreak: If America is pretty and rich, that wont be for long the way America is doing things. You know, like not investing in infastructure or science and arguing over wether or not its a good idea that more people have access to healthcare or not. Even though, those who don't have adaquate access to healthcare become a drain on society if they don't. So its kind of a good idea to have a level playing field, because if millions of Americans are doing more than just surviving they can contribute more to society. Which boosts the economy, go figure.

Also, Canada looks plenty sexy. Access to healthcare (I haven't been to a doctor properly in a years due to a lack of moola), a government that can actually get things done like immigration reform while Republicans seem to have given up on it completely, etc. Granted, they have become as anti-science as the United States in some regards and way more apathetic. Oh, and they have slower internet on average than the United States. Another minus, but on average I wouldn't classify Canada as ugly compared to the US.


I agree with everything you said.

I apologize for the shallow pretty vs ugly thing.  And even when we get down to it I apologize for saying both countries are women.  I probably could have come up with a better less offensive analogy but I didn't so sue me...  What if I would have said America is the fake boobed "pretty" rich girl with one or two face lifts that's crazy but and Canada is the average girl next door happy with her dead end job and has a heart of gold.  Is that better?
 
2013-12-20 10:49:21 AM

Toquinha: Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.


Preface, not trolling.

How did your card get comprimised?
 
2013-12-20 11:00:35 AM

Toquinha: Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.


My inlaws have the same experience.  Yearly, one of their three cards gets jacked - I've never had one of my cards compromised (that I know of).

The article is spot-on.  The US consumer protections put the cost of fraud on the credit card companies (the party that can most affect fraud).  So the companies decide how to spend their anti-fraud $$ and chips aren't a priority in the cost-benefit analysis.

The only annoying thing is that I have to carry substantial cash when traveling internationally because there are a lot of terminals that straight up do not take non-chipped cards.
 
2013-12-20 11:04:52 AM

RedTank: Tyrosine: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States. Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally. Just like the Scandinavian countries.

You don't really know a lot about Canada do you?

Well let me elaborate then...  I understand the French vs everyone else cultural clash... but they are mostly on the same page politically yes because they have this self-inflicted separate but equal thing happening?

As far as racial tension, I'm again speaking politically.   The vast majority of Canadians that also care about politics are one ethnicity.  In America every race demands to be represented at all costs.


The Indian-Canadians and Pakistanian-Canadians?
 
2013-12-20 11:06:35 AM
Americans are actually lucky, says Anderson, because they have the thing that matters more than technology - consumer protection.

Guess subby did not get down this far when reading the article.
 
2013-12-20 11:07:16 AM
American credit card issuers will never do this because fark you.
 
2013-12-20 11:16:48 AM
I wish Canada wasn't so gorram cold. I've considered emigrating but brrr.

/canada's got hot women tho
 
2013-12-20 11:17:24 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Americans are actually lucky, says Anderson, because they have the thing that matters more than technology - consumer protection.

Guess subby did not get down this far when reading the article.


You know what happens when I get my card duplicated? My bank gives me my money back.
 
2013-12-20 11:21:10 AM

RedTank: Flab: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

How does the population size or racial composition of Canada or the US affect bankings laws?

Because I believe that larger populations with competing priorities (racial composition is a large part of that) are more prone to overreacting, more likely to react slowly unless faced with an imminent threat, and most important more prone to corruption.

So perhaps that leads to banks being less restricted, taking bigger risks, and then also being able to diffuse the blame should something happen.


Add to that fact that in the northern parts of Canada, people are far more used to depending on one another for literal survival.  See a motorist stranded on a US highway....hundreds of cars will go by before someone stops to help.  In northern Ontario, that value is more like 2.  Canadians will go check on their elderly neighbors after a bad storm.  Elderly people in the US die and are discovered a few days later because the corpse started to smell.

Canadians understand the value of helping out their neighbors.  People in the US have forgotten that.  Northern states, like Minnesota it's more common.  But down south?  (Especially the southern plains states) it's virtually non-existent.

//Slightly exaggerated...but not by a lot.
 
2013-12-20 11:32:08 AM

Tyrosine: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States. Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally. Just like the Scandinavian countries.

You don't really know a lot about Canada do you?


chrisbgardner.files.wordpress.com

We watch enough TV to know about Canada.
 
2013-12-20 11:58:36 AM

indarwinsshadow: Toquinha: Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.

Preface, not trolling.

How did your card get comprimised?


I'm going to guess regular trips to certain dens of interest in seedier parts of Montreal.  Seriously though I'm not sure, but I suppose as long as anyone can figure out your mailing address and match it to your credit card info the online world is your oyster.  Haven't had it happen to me personally, but I don't go throwing my personals out to any dumb-ass promotion or contest that tries, especially the in-store post-purchase request for full personal detail, fark that.  "I'd rather not."
 
2013-12-20 12:00:03 PM

RedTank: Canada is the average girl next door happy with her dead end job and has a heart of gold


People with dead end jobs usually want to leave those jobs but can't.

I don't know a single Canadian who really wants to leave. Most of us know how much better it is to live here than anywhere else.
 
2013-12-20 12:04:29 PM

homarjr: RedTank: Canada is the average girl next door happy with her dead end job and has a heart of gold

People with dead end jobs usually want to leave those jobs but can't.

I don't know a single Canadian who really wants to leave. Most of us know how much better it is to live here than anywhere else.


You're taking it way too literal.
 
2013-12-20 12:09:04 PM

RedTank: Tyrosine: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States. Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally. Just like the Scandinavian countries.

You don't really know a lot about Canada do you?

Well let me elaborate then...  I understand the French vs everyone else cultural clash... but they are mostly on the same page politically yes because they have this self-inflicted separate but equal thing happening?

As far as racial tension, I'm again speaking politically.  The vast majority of Canadians that also care about politics are one ethnicity.  In America every race demands to be represented at all costs.


The French-English thing is far more complex than that, and Quebec tends to be far more liberal in many respects than the rest of Canada especially the west. There are significant differences between within Canada that transcend language. .

Also, Canada is very diverse. The Asian, Indo, Native, and Mid-Eastern communities are very politically active. We do not have the homogenous society you appear to believe we have.
 
2013-12-20 12:10:04 PM

homarjr: RedTank: Canada is the average girl next door happy with her dead end job and has a heart of gold

People with dead end jobs usually want to leave those jobs but can't.

I don't know a single Canadian who really wants to leave. Most of us know how much better it is to live here than anywhere else.


Most US citizens are benevolently ignorant of most of what goes on in Canada.  Canadians, however, are malevolently well-informed about what goes on in the US.
 
2013-12-20 12:17:47 PM

Tyrosine: The French-English thing is far more complex than that, and Quebec tends to be far more liberal in many respects than the rest of Canada especially the west. There are significant differences between within Canada that transcend language. .

Also, Canada is very diverse. The Asian, Indo, Native, and Mid-Eastern communities are very politically active. We do not have the homogenous society you appear to believe we have.


Fair enough but I will still stick to the fact that it's more about the total population than it is the cultural and racial issues, those issue get magnified when more people are involved..  316 million US compared to about 34 million Canada.  If Canada had 10x the population it would be much more like the US.
 
2013-12-20 12:17:49 PM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy and Canada is the ugly girl happy with her dead end job with a heart of gold.  Both images of which each country tries to maintain to fit into this world.


i235.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-20 12:22:16 PM

RedTank: Well let me elaborate then...  I understand the French vs everyone else cultural clash... but they are mostly on the same page politically yes because they have this self-inflicted separate but equal thing happening?


The current Government of Canada has elected members from FIVE different political parties. And one sitting independent. Not really "same page" there.
 
2013-12-20 12:24:12 PM

RedTank: Tyrosine: The French-English thing is far more complex than that, and Quebec tends to be far more liberal in many respects than the rest of Canada especially the west. There are significant differences between within Canada that transcend language. .

Also, Canada is very diverse. The Asian, Indo, Native, and Mid-Eastern communities are very politically active. We do not have the homogenous society you appear to believe we have.

Fair enough but I will still stick to the fact that it's more about the total population than it is the cultural and racial issues, those issue get magnified when more people are involved..  316 million US compared to about 34 million Canada.  If Canada had 10x the population it would be much more like the US.


You gotta take your foot out of your mouth at some point and stop digging holes. ;)
It's okay, nobody expects everyone who isn't in Canada to be a goddamn expert on what the hell it is we have going on up here.
 
2013-12-20 12:27:47 PM

Flab: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

How does the population size or racial composition of Canada or the US affect bankings laws?


I'll chime in: not laws per se, but rather standards. Less population = fewer banks, insomuch as it was easier to propose/build a national bank network, called Interac. I can draw cash from my banks accounts at any ATM in the country using a single card, and I can pay for purchases directly from my bank account at almost every retail establishment using that card. This same technology has been extended to Tap payments, and soon smartphone NFC payments.

I don't carry cash on me, ever. If an establishment doesn't take Interac, then fark them, their competing neighbor will.
 
2013-12-20 12:35:04 PM

RedTank: Fair enough but I will still stick to the fact that it's more about the total population than it is the cultural and racial issues, those issue get magnified when more people are involved.. 316 million US compared to about 34 million Canada. If Canada had 10x the population it would be much more like the US.


I have no disagreement on the population issue, however I will point out that when I was last in Europe in 2008 chips cards were the norm in The Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Germany. I can't speak to the rest of the continent, but those four countries represent a culturally diverse population of 175 million people.
 
2013-12-20 12:36:08 PM
Canada keeps pushing RFID cards. And not because the mean old poopy government likes them for tracking with their 30 foot range and all.
When the U.S. rules don't require any security on the card, f*ck all of you pinheads who don't loudly dispute theft of your cards credentials.
Man-in the middle attacks still happen in stores with added skimmers in the line by criminal employee.

The digital pickpocket, shows how RFID's in the U.S. cards have zero encryption, while Canada actually has encryption(for the most part so you can't get the details, but you can still wirelessly track it via an identifier).
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Digital-pickpockets-using-technol og y-to-steal-credit-cards-208613001.html
 
2013-12-20 12:43:56 PM

starsrift: You gotta take your foot out of your mouth at some point and stop digging holes. ;)
It's okay, nobody expects everyone who isn't in Canada to be a goddamn expert on what the hell it is we have going on up here.


I agree, just I'll just stop talking I think...
 
2013-12-20 12:48:05 PM
I'm outraged. How dare they take away my choice to have an insecure credit card!
 
2013-12-20 12:49:50 PM
Lol. The embedded microchip designs were invented in the U.S. It has nothing to do with the U.S. being "behind".

The main problem with adoption of new technology in the U.S. is large percentage of conspiracy nutjobs here who insist that all such technology is evil, and "they" are watching. And heaven forbid "they" have a record of my credit purchases.

License plate scanners, rfid technology, embedded microchips, facial recognition, all invented here, all incredibly useful for making life easier and faster, but not used here.
 
2013-12-20 01:09:47 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Lol. The embedded microchip designs were invented in the U.S. It has nothing to do with the U.S. being "behind".

The main problem with adoption of new technology in the U.S. is large percentage of conspiracy nutjobs here who insist that all such technology is evil, and "they" are watching. And heaven forbid "they" have a record of my credit purchases.

License plate scanners, rfid technology, embedded microchips, facial recognition, all invented here, all incredibly useful for making life easier and faster, but not used here.


"They" have seen this post.  "They" should be expected.

clouverse.com
 
2013-12-20 01:33:30 PM

RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy


She ain't pretty, she just looks that way.
 
2013-12-20 01:43:01 PM

barefoot in the head: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy


She ain't pretty, she just looks that way.


ijusthaveafewnotes.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-20 01:44:50 PM
I am sick of hearing that the US is inferior because we don't fall all over ourselves to switch the liability for credit card fraud from the bank to the consumer. How is the "security" of chip and pin good for us?
 
2013-12-20 01:48:00 PM

indarwinsshadow: Toquinha: Not necessarily. I'm from Canada and My PIN-chip enabled Mastercard has been compromised so many times that it's becoming an annual event. On the flip side, my non-PIN-chip enabled AMEX card has never had a problem.

Preface, not trolling.

How did your card get comprimised?


Chip and Pin cards can be compromised when someone purchases a scanner on-line and walks into a crowded shopping center.  They can brush by and scan hundreds of cards and get all the information they need to program their own cards.  Everything they need is available on-line with no hassles.
 
2013-12-20 02:02:05 PM

starsrift: RedTank: Tyrosine: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States. Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally. Just like the Scandinavian countries.

You don't really know a lot about Canada do you?

Well let me elaborate then...  I understand the French vs everyone else cultural clash... but they are mostly on the same page politically yes because they have this self-inflicted separate but equal thing happening?

As far as racial tension, I'm again speaking politically.   The vast majority of Canadians that also care about politics are one ethnicity.  In America every race demands to be represented at all costs.

The Indian-Canadians and Pakistanian-Canadians?


Of course.
 i.imgur.com

 
2013-12-20 02:12:28 PM

Nexzus: Flab: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

How does the population size or racial composition of Canada or the US affect bankings laws?

I'll chime in: not laws per se, but rather standards. Less population = fewer banks, insomuch as it was easier to propose/build a national bank network, called Interac. I can draw cash from my banks accounts at any ATM in the country using a single card, and I can pay for purchases directly from my bank account at almost every retail establishment using that card. This same technology has been extended to Tap payments, and soon smartphone NFC payments.

I don't carry cash on me, ever. If an establishment doesn't take Interac, then fark them, their competing neighbor will.


The "fewer banks" is not because of fewer people, per se.  It's also because of the difference in banking laws in the US and Canada.

But all of this has nothing to do with why US banks have not yet implemented chip-and-pin systems:
1) They don't want to, as the investment would cut into their profits.
2) Their customers have, by-and-large, not asked for the additional security.
3) mostly because they live by the delusion that their protection agaisnt fraud is more than adequate, as evidenced by the lie quoted in the boobies.
 
2013-12-20 02:20:52 PM

starsrift: RedTank: Canada does not equal the United States.  Smaller populations, non competing cultures, no racial tensions, and not being a global power player makes it a little easier to get things done internally.  Just like the Scandinavian countries.

Here we have to be some sort of shining example to the rest of the world so that means having basically no logical priorities.

America is the pretty rich girl that's crazy and Canada is the ugly girl happy with her dead end job with a heart of gold.  Both images of which each country tries to maintain to fit into this world.

Gotta take real issue with you sayin' Canada's ugly compared to America.


It's pretty accurate. You guys thought Celine Dion was pretty.
 
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