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(The Atlantic)   The worst performing public schools are concentrated in areas where elected officials don't believe in public schooling   (theatlantic.com) divider line 79
    More: Obvious, elected officials, high schools  
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2125 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Dec 2013 at 2:18 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-19 01:42:32 PM
We are really good at putting a pretty bow on it though. We just limit the districts we compare ourselves to and claim everything is fine. I've always thought NC was a 'for the children' kind of state. But they really don't have a problem gutting the funding for our schools. It amazes me that parents I know are not furious that we pay teachers less than any other state and the chuckleheads in Raleigh farked them over some more.
 
2013-12-19 01:43:38 PM
I blame culturally biased testing. Give them a tests on how to seduce their siblings or ask them synonyms for people that aren't white and they'll pass with flying colors. Flying colors btw is when they launch minorities out of trebuchets.
 
2013-12-19 01:51:48 PM
Yet another color code.
 
2013-12-19 02:09:40 PM

MayoSlather: I blame culturally biased testing. Give them a tests on how to seduce their siblings or ask them synonyms for people that aren't white and they'll pass with flying colors. Flying colors btw is when they launch minorities out of trebuchets.


That's actually flying coloreds.  But you're close.
 
2013-12-19 02:19:53 PM
So...'chicken or egg' situation?
 
2013-12-19 02:24:47 PM
Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.
 
2013-12-19 02:25:41 PM

balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.


Falls in with my parents beat me and I turned out just fine now people tell me I can't beat my kids
 
2013-12-19 02:26:18 PM

balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.


While it doesn't prove causation, it sure as hell implies it and signals that it's worth additional investigation.
 
2013-12-19 02:26:21 PM

Wasilla Hillbilly: So...'chicken or egg' situation?


The south is the best at so much! They have the highest obesity rates, most high school dropouts, highest illiteracy rates, and so much more!

All of this, at the core is because they lead the nation in poverty.

And those poor, uneducated, unhealthy dumbasses keep voting for the party that favors the wealthy at the expense of everyone else just a tad more than the other party because "Jesus".

Southern pride, that's a funny notion.
 
2013-12-19 02:27:27 PM
This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


www.americanprogress.org cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2013-12-19 02:29:11 PM
Before this goes too far: For the record, I was being sarcastic.
 
2013-12-19 02:30:14 PM

balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.


Stop saying this. You think it makes you look smart. It doesn't. Correlation does not imply causation is what you are looking for, a subtle but important difference.

qorkfiend: balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.

While it doesn't prove causation, it sure as hell implies it


You are closer but still incorrect.

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in  and to emphasize that  between two variables does not automatically imply that one  the other (though correlation is necessary for linear causation, and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation... in other words, correlation can be a hint).

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Correlation_doe s_ not_imply_causation.html
 
2013-12-19 02:32:19 PM

jst3p: "Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other (though correlation is necessary for linear causation, and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation... in other words, correlation can be a hint).

 
2013-12-19 02:33:20 PM
We don't really have a public schooling issue; public schooling has a poverty issue.
 
2013-12-19 02:33:46 PM
I wonder how much of that last graph is due to where the big named colleges are, causing the "clusters" of college grads compared to their surrounding areas.
 
2013-12-19 02:34:46 PM
The map measures the level of education based on where people currently reside.  Why would this necessarily be a definitive measure of where public schools are performing well, or failing?
 
2013-12-19 02:35:32 PM

Ablejack: We don't really have a public schooling issue; public schooling has a poverty issue.


Amazing how much we can trace back to poverty.

Oh well, charity will fill the public school funding gap, like it does with food banks and other charitable causes the government has no business being in.
 
2013-12-19 02:35:51 PM
Yeah, the whole "correlation does not imply causation" thing has really gotten out of hand. It's like you can swagger into any thread, throw that out there, drop the mic and walk off feeling victorious.
 
2013-12-19 02:36:32 PM

randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.



honk honk
 
2013-12-19 02:37:58 PM
Why would you hire people to be in charge of government that think government is always a failure?

It makes no sense.
 
2013-12-19 02:38:17 PM

Robin Hoodie: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


honk honk


I, too, am a demented honky.
 
2013-12-19 02:38:34 PM

Wasilla Hillbilly: Yeah, the whole "correlation does not imply causation" thing has really gotten out of hand. It's like you can swagger into any thread, throw that out there, drop the mic and walk off feeling victorious.


balki1867: Before this goes too far: For the record, I was being sarcastic.


I just want to keep throwing that out there.
 
2013-12-19 02:39:30 PM
Question: how are all these people without high school diplomas making a living? What income earning potential do they have as they get older? I mean, even custodial work requires a HS diploma/equivalent in a lot of places.
 
2013-12-19 02:40:33 PM

Wasilla Hillbilly: Yeah, the whole "correlation does not imply causation" thing has really gotten out of hand. It's like you can swagger into any thread, throw that out there, drop the mic and walk off feeling victorious.


Correlation of +.83?  You got something cool to study.  Correlation of +.2?  Meh...try again...
 
2013-12-19 02:41:14 PM

randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]


I don't know. You tell us which politicians rule the south? Is it minorities? Democrats? or white Republicans?
 
2013-12-19 02:42:33 PM

randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]


So what you're saying is that a vast majority of the minority population in the US has very little access to quality education?

Or are you saying that colored and/or poor people are stupid?
 
2013-12-19 02:45:51 PM

balki1867: Before this goes too far: For the record, I was being sarcastic.


A little too good with the Poe there, take it as a compliment :)
 
2013-12-19 02:46:26 PM

INeedAName: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


So what you're saying is that a vast majority of the minority population in the US has very little access to quality education?

Or are you saying that colored and/or poor people are stupid?


Oh man all I saw was a pair of maps. How many other leading questions can we dig up out of 30 odd words and some maps? My guess is 15.
 
2013-12-19 02:50:17 PM
I have a tech company, I hire the unibomer as my CTO...for some reason it isn't working out so great...
 
2013-12-19 02:50:18 PM

jst3p: balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Stop saying this. You think it makes you look smart. It doesn't. Correlation does not imply causation is what you are looking for, a subtle but important difference.qorkfiend: balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.

While it doesn't prove causation, it sure as hell implies it

You are closer but still incorrect.

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in  and to emphasize that  between two variables does not automatically imply that one  the other (though correlation is necessary for linear causation, and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation... in other words, correlation can be a hint).

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Correlation_doe s_ not_imply_causation.html


Fair 'nuff.
 
2013-12-19 02:50:49 PM
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-19 02:50:55 PM

MayoSlather: Flying colors btw is when they launch minorities out of trebuchets.


Damnit.

New keyboard!!!
 
2013-12-19 02:52:21 PM

INeedAName: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]

So what you're saying is that a vast majority of the minority population in the US has very little access to quality education?

Or are you saying that colored and/or poor people are stupid?


Poor people are generally less educated. Minorities are over-represented in poverty. It is a vicious cycle.
 
2013-12-19 02:52:24 PM

randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]


I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. That, looking at those maps, the highest areas of high school dropout also happen to correlate with areas of high minority percentages?

That's not a truthful look into high school dropouts percentages. A better look would be to compare ethnic group percentages amongst the overall dropouts.

The main problem I see with public education funding (I'm pro good public education) is that it's not immediately beneficial. I'd say, conservatively, that it probably takes a almost a full high school class set in years to see trending results. As in, it would take probably 3 school years, which is enough time for freshmen to become seniors.
 
2013-12-19 02:52:40 PM

INeedAName: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]

So what you're saying is that a vast majority of the minority population in the US has very little access to quality education?

Or are you saying that colored and/or poor people are stupid?


I think he's saying the south is a democratic party stronghold
 
2013-12-19 02:57:07 PM
if our educational system were to actually educate our population, what in the hell do you think would happen to the political and economic elite in this country?

are you farking crazy!?

/It's good to be the King
 
2013-12-19 02:57:19 PM

jst3p: INeedAName: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]

So what you're saying is that a vast majority of the minority population in the US has very little access to quality education?

Or are you saying that colored and/or poor people are stupid?

Poor people are generally less educated. Minorities are over-represented in poverty. It is a vicious cycle.


Absolutely agreed. And the people in charge don't really care because they can afford to send their kids to the good schools.
 
2013-12-19 03:01:05 PM
I am totally shocked that elected officials that don't believe in government would have districts with poor performing government programs.
 
2013-12-19 03:03:15 PM
cdn.theatlantic.com

Notice that in the south, the concentration of college grads are all in the big liberal cities.
 
2013-12-19 03:06:50 PM

Wasilla Hillbilly: Robin Hoodie: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.
honk honk
I, too, am a demented honky.


I, for one, am not.

When you look at their policies over the last 30 years, and the results yielded by those policies, it's pretty clear that the GOP is doing everything in their power to ensure rural white children receive as little education as possible - even allowing rampant miseducation.  They know exactly where their voter base is manufactured, and want to keep that supply line open as long as possible.

Example: sex education.
-Wealthy suburban areas - kids know that condoms prevent the spread of STDs, tremendously reduce the chance of pregnancy, and are widely available. They use them comparatively often. Result: lowest teen pregnancy rates.
-Poor urban areas - kids basically understand what condoms do and how they work, but might be tougher to get and are generally not preferred. Result: moderate teen pregnancy rates.
-Poor rural areas - kids are taught that condoms are ineffective against STDs and pregnancy, and they are used least in these areas. Result: high teen pregnancy rates.
 
2013-12-19 03:09:44 PM
I posted this in another thread but I think it is appropriate in this thread also.  It is not just how you handle education, it is how much you value it.

www.ohmz.net
 
2013-12-19 03:15:53 PM

Satanic_Hamster: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x330]

Notice that in the south, the concentration of college grads are all in the big liberal cities.

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-12-19 03:18:35 PM

jst3p: balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Stop saying this. You think it makes you look smart. It doesn't. Correlation does not imply causation is what you are looking for, a subtle but important difference.qorkfiend: balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.

While it doesn't prove causation, it sure as hell implies it

You are closer but still incorrect.

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in  and to emphasize that  between two variables does not automatically imply that one  the other (though correlation is necessary for linear causation, and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation... in other words, correlation can be a hint).

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Correlation_doe s_ not_imply_causation.html


There's a difference between the way "imply" is usually used and the way it's used in science and logic.

Usually:  A implies B means that A suggest B or probably means B or could result in B.  Under this definition saying that correlation implies causation means that a correlation is evidence for causation.

Science/logic: A implies B means "if A, then B."  Under this definition, "correlation implies causation" means "if there is correlation, then there is causation."
 
2013-12-19 03:19:15 PM

Satanic_Hamster: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x330]

Notice that in the south, the concentration of college grads are all in the big liberal cities.


Or... maybe that is a direct bubble chart of population centers and does not reflect politics but where people live.

xkcd.jpg
 
2013-12-19 03:20:03 PM

Target Builder: Satanic_Hamster: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x330]

Notice that in the south, the concentration of college grads are all in the big liberal cities.[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x542]


I hate you
 
2013-12-19 03:23:07 PM
The article, and subby, are both messed up.

The HS graduation rates are correlated with the presence of private (especially Catholic) schools.

And the college graduation thing is terribly exagerated.  If you get a college degree, you are more likely to move to the large cities where that degree is useful in your career.

/yes, the South is a big festering sore of undereducated idjits.
//and we as a country need to do something about it.
///but whatever The Atlantic thinks we should do is probably not the answer
 
2013-12-19 03:25:43 PM

balki1867: Duh subby, correlation =/= causation.

Maybe they don't believe in public schooling because they sent their own kids there and they can see how dumb they turned out.


Correlation isn't the same as causation, but it is highly correlated.

//stolen from Twitter.
 
2013-12-19 03:33:54 PM

efgeise: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. That, looking at those maps, the highest areas of high school dropout also happen to correlate with areas of high minority percentages?

That's not a truthful look into high school dropouts percentages. A better look would be to compare ethnic group percentages amongst the overall dropouts.

The main problem I see with public education funding (I'm pro good public education) is that it's not immediately beneficial. I'd say, conservatively, that it probably takes a almost a full high school class set in years to see trending results. As in, it would take probably 3 school years, which is enough time for freshmen to become seniors.

INeedAName: randomjsa: This is going to be another one of those threads? I wonder what the correlation is. I also wonder who they vote for again? You may start with the demented honking about racism now.


[www.americanprogress.org image 600x464] [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x329]

So what you're saying is that a vast majority of the minority population in the US has very little access to quality education?

Or are you saying that colored and/or poor people are stupid?


If you look closely the maps they actually show poverty is the problem, not race.  The area in the Delta and Deep South is poor black people.  The area along the Rio Grande and southern California is poor Hispanic people.  The scattered areas in the Southwest and northern Plains are poor Indian reservations.  And the area in the Appalachians, which randomjsa seems to have missed, is poor white people.
 
2013-12-19 03:34:26 PM

Saiga410: Satanic_Hamster: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 570x330]

Notice that in the south, the concentration of college grads are all in the big liberal cities.

Or... maybe that is a direct bubble chart of population centers and does not reflect politics but where people live.

xkcd.jpg


And urban centers tend to be more liberal. Point still stands.
 
2013-12-19 03:39:01 PM

ArkPanda: If you look closely the maps they actually show poverty is the problem, not race. The area in the Delta and Deep South is poor black people. The area along the Rio Grande and southern California is poor Hispanic people. The scattered areas in the Southwest and northern Plains are poor Indian reservations. And the area in the Appalachians, which randomjsa seems to have missed, is poor white people.


Agreed.  I actually love the ring around Chicago.  Chicago, high drop out rate, the burbs where all the afluent people self select themselves to LOW drop our rate, then rural is middling.
 
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