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(NYPost)   Hey, has anyone noticed that the nuke deal with Iran has basically collapsed?   (nypost.com) divider line 76
    More: Obvious, Iran, alternate route, Supreme Leader of Iran, Algiers, Khamenei, Secretary of State John Kerry, Caspian Sea, Hassan Rowhani  
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1710 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Dec 2013 at 12:07 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-19 10:57:20 AM
Yeah, no one saw that coming........
 
2013-12-19 10:59:24 AM
well if the NY post is reporting it, i'm sure it's true.
 
2013-12-19 11:50:03 AM
Visual representation of America's collective response to this news coming in mid-December:

static2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-12-19 11:58:44 AM
Yeah, i don't believe the NY Post.

A LOT of very powerful interests, American Neo Cons, Saudis, Israelis and their allies in Congress and the media REALLY don't want this deal to work.

They want war.
 
2013-12-19 12:00:12 PM
Don't care.

Phil from Duck Dynasty said some sh*t.

Distracted.
 
2013-12-19 12:08:23 PM
Good.
 
2013-12-19 12:10:29 PM
I don't click NYPost links.  But let's say that the deal falls through.  I guess this is proof that, what...we shouldn't have tried?  Or that we gave the store away to the Iranians?  That Iran now controls the US government?

I guess the only sane thing to do is bomb, bomb, and bomb again.  CAUSE FREEDUM AINT FREE MORANS
 
2013-12-19 12:11:33 PM
That's a lot of spin in that article.  They're basically citing the right-wing of Iran's government as Iran's government.

The positions in question are important, but they're not supreme leader or president, the two primary heads of state.
 
2013-12-19 12:12:13 PM
It's Iran,  they are horrible about keeping thier word.
Negotiations with them are pointless.

/I'm guessing most people knew this up front though.
 
2013-12-19 12:13:00 PM

ikanreed:  They're basically citing the right-wing of Iran's government as Iran's government.


Same way the view our government.
 
2013-12-19 12:13:15 PM

FlashHarry: well if the NY post is reporting it, i'm sure it's true.


"That deal we and IAPAC's congressmen have been yelling about teetering on brink of not being approved by us"!!!
 
2013-12-19 12:14:29 PM
Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.
 
2013-12-19 12:15:17 PM

toadist: It's Iran,  they are horrible about keeping thier word.
Negotiations with them are pointless.

/I'm guessing most people knew this up front though.


Pssst, it was the US Congress that immediately started drawing up new sanctions after the deal.
 
2013-12-19 12:15:18 PM
Define basically.
 
2013-12-19 12:16:33 PM
Well in that case, Israel should commence the bombings immediately, and we should send them a check to cover the expense.

I mean, it's the NEW YORK POST!
 
2013-12-19 12:17:11 PM
So Brody's death was for naught?
 
2013-12-19 12:17:47 PM

Headso: ikanreed:  They're basically citing the right-wing of Iran's government as Iran's government.

Same way the view our government.


I'm pretty sure they view our government as Stalin, but more communist.
 
2013-12-19 12:18:12 PM

AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.


Sure would, after half of the continent is leveled, millions of people die, then the fallout moves and kills a few hundred thousand with radiation.

But you know, America.
 
2013-12-19 12:20:13 PM

Kibbler: I don't click NYPost links.  But let's say that the deal falls through.  I guess this is proof that, what...we shouldn't have tried?  Or that we gave the store away to the Iranians?  That Iran now controls the US government?

I guess the only sane thing to do is bomb, bomb, and bomb again.  CAUSE FREEDUM AINT FREE MORANS


If the deal falls through it is further proof to China and Russian that Iran can be trusted which will make it easier to put back in place the sanctions that devastated the Iranian economy and make it easier to maintain the coalition against Iran in the long term.
 
2013-12-19 12:20:52 PM
If Iran farks over and embarrasses its negotiating partners now then they will have been better off just shutting up and putting out "please bomb me" signs months ago.
They would have been more likely to make it through 2014 unscathed that way.

Hopefully this is just ignorance, willful or otherwise, concerning the negotiation process.

//On the other hand It would really help my stock portfolio if the strait of hormuz gets shut down. enrich baby! enrich!.
 
2013-12-19 12:22:33 PM
The quotes they pull are that they are referring to the agreement as an agreement rather than a treaty now (which is pure semantics; Western outlets have referred to it as both.) Oh, and they said that the 6 month treaty isn't necessarily a 6 month treaty and could last for years, when the language of the agreement says it actually is a 12 month treaty and it includes an option to renew based on the terms (into perpetuity; if this is the best both sides can agree too and it works well this could be the final deal).

I also like the fact that the NY Post said "P5+1 recognize the right of Iran to make uranium and eased sanctions based on a promise they wouldn't make as much uranium and hold off on the plutonium for a couple months." Completely overlooked the fact that the deal also requires Iran undergo regular UN weapons inspections to prove this is an energy program not a weapons program and requires them to surrender all 20%+ enriched uranium (AKA, approaching weapons grade) for destruction.

Meanwhile, Senate Democrats have worked with AIPAC to write a bill demanding Iran surrender all uranium or face further sanctions (and a guarantee of US military support for Israel if they decide to attack Iran).

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/12/18/the-best-of-the-dish-today -1 15/
 
2013-12-19 12:22:55 PM
Has Iran actually violated any terms of the agreement?  Isn't everyone home for the season anyways?
 
2013-12-19 12:23:14 PM

AngryPanda: AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.

Sure would, after half of the continent is leveled, millions of people die, then the fallout moves and kills a few hundred thousand with radiation.

But you know, America.


Well, that's interesting. Do we have any other angry animals that can join this discussion?
 
2013-12-19 12:24:31 PM

thurstonxhowell: AngryPanda: AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.

Sure would, after half of the continent is leveled, millions of people die, then the fallout moves and kills a few hundred thousand with radiation.

But you know, America.

Well, that's interesting. Do we have any other angry animals that can join this discussion?


Plenty of angry monkeys about.
 
2013-12-19 12:28:25 PM

AngryPanda: AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.

Sure would, after half of the continent is leveled, millions of people die, then the fallout moves and kills a few hundred thousand with radiation.

But you know, America.


No, it depends on what we give them. We could supply them each with a three megaton bomb with a lead tamper. Lots of fusion. Air burst. Nice and clean.
 
2013-12-19 12:31:32 PM

LarryDan43: Define basically.


The agreement is not being viewed by Iran as a treaty (legally enforceable law across countries), it's being viewed as a letter of intent (unenforceable, step one of 10,000 in an agreement that will never happen).

It's not worth the paper it's printed on, and they will take no action as a result of it.
 
2013-12-19 12:33:35 PM

vernonFL: Yeah, i don't believe the NY Post.

A LOT of very powerful interests, American Neo Cons, Saudis, Israelis and their allies in Congress and the media REALLY don't want this deal to work.

They want war.


Yeah, when the Saudis agree with Isreal that a US invasion of Iran is the proper response, you know there's a lot of money on the table.
 
2013-12-19 12:36:04 PM
In other news, there isn't much money to be made if there's peace
 
2013-12-19 12:36:37 PM

AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.


A GED in international affairs just isn't what it used to be.
 
2013-12-19 12:38:00 PM
I still say the easiest solution is to carefully parachute a 55 gallon drum of pig entrails into the main courtyard of the mosque at Qum along with a note: "Smash all your centrifuges and put them on display at the following locations or we will defile your country from border to border with pig blood, starting with the Tomb of Ali. You have 24 hours to comply." That would quickly put an end to the Iranian nuclear for short money and at no humanitarian cost.
 
2013-12-19 12:40:16 PM
The only logical response is to bomb and/or invade them.
 
2013-12-19 12:41:16 PM

Khellendros: LarryDan43: Define basically.

The agreement is not being viewed by Iran as a treaty (legally enforceable law across countries), it's being viewed as a letter of intent (unenforceable, step one of 10,000 in an agreement that will never happen).

It's not worth the paper it's printed on, and they will take no action as a result of it.


It's been described that way in some Iranian newspapers, but that's not the same as how it's being managed by the Iranian government.  It's the same as Republicans continually referring to the PPACA as a bill and not a law.  Their denial of reality doesn't change what is.

Now, the deal may not work, but I think in the absence of actual violation of the treaty (rather than simple sound and fury) we need to wait out the 6 month period and see what happens.
 
2013-12-19 12:42:55 PM

AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.


You do realize that there's oil over there, right?
 
2013-12-19 12:46:13 PM

clambam: I still say the easiest solution is to carefully parachute a 55 gallon drum of pig entrails into the main courtyard of the mosque at Qum along with a note: "Smash all your centrifuges and put them on display at the following locations or we will defile your country from border to border with pig blood, starting with the Tomb of Ali. You have 24 hours to comply." That would quickly put an end to the Iranian nuclear for short money and at no humanitarian cost.


Another fantastic entry into the "stupidest possible suggestion" contest, I see.
 
2013-12-19 12:53:00 PM

Ned Stark: thurstonxhowell: AngryPanda: AngryDragon: Good.

Give each country and political group over there 3 nukes in the megaton range.  Tell them we're turning our backs for 24-hours and whatever happens, happens.  The situation will resolve itself overnight.

Sure would, after half of the continent is leveled, millions of people die, then the fallout moves and kills a few hundred thousand with radiation.

But you know, America.

Well, that's interesting. Do we have any other angry animals that can join this discussion?

Plenty of angry monkeys about.


I could've sworn I saw a Discontented Jackalope once..
 
2013-12-19 12:53:13 PM

thurstonxhowell: clambam: I still say the easiest solution is to carefully parachute a 55 gallon drum of pig entrails into the main courtyard of the mosque at Qum along with a note: "Smash all your centrifuges and put them on display at the following locations or we will defile your country from border to border with pig blood, starting with the Tomb of Ali. You have 24 hours to comply." That would quickly put an end to the Iranian nuclear for short money and at no humanitarian cost.

Another fantastic entry into the "stupidest possible suggestion" contest, I see.


Why is that? I think it would be extraordinarily effective.
 
2013-12-19 01:02:32 PM

Peter von Nostrand: In other news, there isn't much money to be made if there's peace


I see that you've mastered the 34th Rule of Acquisition, but you seem to have forgotten the 35th Rule.
 
2013-12-19 01:04:23 PM

BMulligan: Peter von Nostrand: In other news, there isn't much money to be made if there's peace

I see that you've mastered the 34th Rule of Acquisition, but you seem to have forgotten the 35th Rule.


Perhaps you should review the 76th Rule of Acquisition as well.
 
2013-12-19 01:04:25 PM

Khellendros: LarryDan43: Define basically.

The agreement is not being viewed by Iran as a treaty (legally enforceable law across countries), it's being viewed as a letter of intent (unenforceable, step one of 10,000 in an agreement that will never happen).

It's not worth the paper it's printed on, and they will take no action as a result of it.


Considering that Iran has to allow weapon inspectors in and surrender all their existing highly enriched uranium I don't know how someone would think Iran could get away with not complying with the agreement and the West would not immediately reinstitute the sanctions.

Oh, that's right: because the article purposely doesn't mention Iran having to take active steps to get sanction relief and tries to portray the deal as "Obama just made Iran say they swear they won't build a bomb as fast as they already planned to if we give them everything they want."
 
2013-12-19 01:20:18 PM

FlashHarry: well if the NY post is reporting it, i'm sure it's true.

 
2013-12-19 01:24:46 PM

Shostie: Don't care.

Phil from Duck Dynasty said some sh*t.

Distracted.


Yeah, this is all I see on Facebook. Idiot fundies losing their shiat because this Larry the Cable guy-like imposter said stupid shiat and canned.

Goddamn, I hate the American religious right. It's just so tiresome after a while.

I'll believe the Iran deal when I hear about it from a source that isn't the NY Post.
 
2013-12-19 01:25:19 PM
So, anyone got a link not from the NY Post saying what's in TFA?
 
2013-12-19 01:26:07 PM
New York Post
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-19 01:31:00 PM
I think everyone's forgetting something really important.

Even if a nuclear strike could be carried out without retaliation from the other side, both cases would see massive, massive environmental devastation from fallout.

From what I understand, Iran wants nukes because da Jooze have them and because having nukes makes you immune to invasion, which seems prudent after what happened to Saddam.

But Israel has them to counter the possibility of invasion by a numerically superior Arab force. They would supposedly nuke the advancing Soviet tanks into oblivion. And at the moment, no one in the region has the capability to retaliate.

But have the Israelis stopped to consider that employing nuclear weapons would destroy their own country with fallout?
 
2013-12-19 01:37:43 PM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: But have the Israelis stopped to consider that employing nuclear weapons would destroy their own country with fallout?


That's what I don't understand. When you're next door to someone you're dropping a nuclear weapon on, your neighbor doesn't have to have nukes for MAD to apply. Do we think nobody will care because Allah/G-d? I still think they'll care.
 
2013-12-19 01:52:13 PM
Wait.... that articles doesn't seem to have any actual facts in it. It's an opinion piece, right?
 
2013-12-19 01:52:17 PM
If it's nukes they want I think we should give them few.

/boom
 
2013-12-19 01:59:18 PM
Not a trustworthy source.  On this topic, or any other.
 
2013-12-19 02:00:30 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: omnibus_necanda_sunt: But have the Israelis stopped to consider that employing nuclear weapons would destroy their own country with fallout?

That's what I don't understand. When you're next door to someone you're dropping a nuclear weapon on, your neighbor doesn't have to have nukes for MAD to apply. Do we think nobody will care because Allah/G-d? I still think they'll care.


I think you overestimate nuclear fallout, think of how many weapons were detonated above ground in Nevada.

Use this and detonate a 500kt air burst over Tehran ( be sure and click "fallout" ). Then zoom out to see where Israel is on the map
http://www.nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
 
2013-12-19 02:01:58 PM
That didn't take long. What's next? Cuban cigars for everyone?
 
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