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(Gulf News)   Indian diplomat who was caught paying her maid below the minimum wage: "The maid was trying to blackmail me" Asking for minimum wage isn't really blackmail, but what would you like me to play on this tiny violin?   (gulfnews.com) divider line 223
    More: Followup, Indians, forged document, Preet Bharara, Secretary of State John Kerry, US Department of State, diplomats, US Marshals Service, visa fraud  
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5763 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2013 at 9:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-19 11:29:40 AM  

sage254: Do you like being handcuffed, strip-searched, cavity-probed, put for hours in a jail cell to wait for a commissioner for any civil or criminal offense? In here people are getting this treatment for unpaid parking tickets. I can't believe we, Americans, are so used to it.
We should be defending Indian diplomat and agreeing with India instead of showing our blind patriotism. There is a time and place for it, and in this case we should recognize that our law enforcement system has become a tool of intimidation and punishment before any citizen has a right to appear before a judiciary.
We should be screaming "bloody murder" in here, because our own liberty is being murdered.


...


If the punishment for her alleged crime was as serious as it seems, and given that she's a foreign diplomat, the probability of her fleeing the jurisdiction seems pretty high.  ...so she probably needed to be arrested and held.  And realistically, if you're going to arrest someone and put them into a jail cell, then for the safety of the guards and other prisoners you do need to be sure they aren't armed.  That's going to require a search.  Nothing about this seems too out of place, really.
 
2013-12-19 11:30:40 AM  

joness0154: machodonkeywrestler: socoloco: I think being strip searched was overboard if it happened. Not like she was hiding an undocumented worker in her cooter. Clearly entitlement is a common issue and not exclusive to anyone.

In india, women are gang raped, set on fire or have acid thrown on them, not for breaking a law, just being a woman. They have a caste system so brutal some are deemed untouchable. Their educated class come here while the majority of their country live in squalor. India is fascinatingly farking crazy. We are too.

She possibly breaks Federal law and that isn't an issue? Having an employee that makes $3 an hour in NY? New York! Having her husband arrested in India? Exactly what outrages India? Nudity?

\ 3rd world problems in a 1st World country.

Why? Everyone is searched upon being put into jail. Otherwise you'd have even worse problems with cell phones, drugs, weapons, etc. Imagine the outrage if that was not SOP and the biatch was stabbed (we can hope, can't we).

Not in the local jails around here, they aren't.  Of course we don't throw everyone in a huge holding cell either.

What was the point in arresting here to begin with?  India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.  She won't face trial or a judge for anything.


She broke the law, Severely. I could give farkall about who she is. Most jails perform a strip search to prevent weapons, drugs, cell phones, etc. If yours doesn't, it is far more dangerous to the prisoners. Imagine the outrage if, due to policy, someone stabbed this biatch with a knife brought from outside the jail.
 
2013-12-19 11:31:32 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: The couple of Indians I hang out with on occasion insist that the caste thing is long gone or at least not taken seriously by anyone.


That rings about as true as some US Senators' remarks that racism is dead in the US.
Is it better then 50 years ago? Sure. Is it still of overwhelming importance in certain parts of society? Absolutely.
 
2013-12-19 11:32:15 AM  

sage254: I can't understand my fellow Americans.
Do you like being handcuffed, strip-searched, cavity-probed, put for hours in a jail cell to wait for a commissioner for any civil or criminal offense? In here people are getting this treatment for unpaid parking tickets. I can't believe we, Americans, are so used to it.
We should be defending Indian diplomat and agreeing with India instead of showing our blind patriotism. There is a time and place for it, and in this case we should recognize that our law enforcement system has become a tool of intimidation and punishment before any citizen has a right to appear before a judiciary.
We should be screaming "bloody murder" in here, because our own liberty is being murdered.
My fellow Americans -- the issue here is NOT that the person broke the law. The Federal Judicial Code right now is enough to fill a library, and no lawyer can understand that. We are breaking some law every day unknowingly. The State has a capability to arrest us whenever and for whatever they want, and even if we found not guilty -- the primary punishment of those accused of the breaking of the law -- is putting in a cage and humiliated.
My fellow Americans -- this is OUR freedom we are talking about, stop the blind defense of our law enforcement due to the feelings of nationalism and think what if this would happened to you. Anyone can break the law in America but we PRIDE ourselves on the contention that we are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. However, by the current Law enforcement standards WE ARE PUNISHED FOR BEING ACCUSED by humiliated arrest, incarceration that often lasts up to 24 hours in terrible environment before a commissioner will see you and allow you to post a bond, sexual humiliation by being strip-searched and as the case of this diplomat likely body-cavity searched. This is because WE ARE JUST BEING ACCUSED.
If the founding fathers must be spinning in their graves right now.


Dude if you don't understand standard procedure for keeping people safe when arrested, just shut the fark up and don't post. This has been covered multiple times. It is to keep the people in jail SAFE from eachother. It has a valid purpose and will never change. She was charged with a felony and is facing up to 15 years in federal prison.

This isn't a joke, this isn't a time for you to white knight her. She isn't going to sleep with you. A slaver was holding a slave and you're upset that we searched her (NOT CAVITY SEARCH, STRIP SEARCH) when we put her in jail.

Fark you.
 
2013-12-19 11:32:32 AM  

joness0154: justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.

Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.


OK. Please give me the contact info of your immediate supervisor and we will rewrite your contract.
 
2013-12-19 11:33:23 AM  

joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.


AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.
 
2013-12-19 11:33:39 AM  

BigNumber12: I hope we stick you in a coach-class middle seat right back to your filthy, barbaric country


No-fly list her sorry ass and put her on a slow boat home.
 
2013-12-19 11:33:44 AM  

joness0154: Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.


You could always pay a higher (legal) salary and then ask for a certain amount of $$ back as compensation for the housing, meals, etc.  Or, alternatively, the housekeeper could keep the full amount and live outside the consulate and provide those things for herself, but given the costs involved in NY, that option would probably cost far, far more.

Seems like that should all be legal.
 
2013-12-19 11:34:03 AM  
Indian self-righteousness doesn't really hold up too well now does it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/india-gang-rapes-pe rs ist-despite-growing-awareness-of-womens-rights/2013/12/15/4c12f58c-635 9-11e3-a373-0f9f2d1c2b61_story.html

On the other hand the dynamic is interesting - the DAG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preet_Bharara for the Southern District is a brisk lad doing a lot of high profile busts of corporate and governmental malefactors and so far he has my vote and I expect he will be furthering his career.

Still, in previous cases the State Department has a sit down with an Ambassador and the case is handled with  diplomacy,and the person is quietly reassigned without too much incident using discretion. At the same time State can assure the safety of the maid and her family.

Reciprocity is a good thing to have in your pocket and this was mishandled.
 
2013-12-19 11:35:13 AM  
I get why Americans are upset, because, hey, I'm an American.
But we should try to look at it from the Indians' point of view. The system they got, that Hindu caste system, the way it works is, you get promoted or relegated every life. It's like the EPL. And you have to work hard, and be nice, your whole life to get promoted. One slip of the tongue, and you're a cockroach for the next twenty years. So this woman climbed all the way up. She's spent the last four centuries doing good deeds and avoiding temptation, and those of us who haven't, maybe we should cut her a little slack.
 
2013-12-19 11:36:07 AM  

joness0154: justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.

Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.


So basically you're pro slavery then?

While I'm not an attorney, I will guarantee that is still illegal.

"No your honor, you see she wasn't a slave because while I paid her barely enough to afford a Big Mac meal, I also forced her to live in my house, never leave, and fed her the leftovers that were spoiled, so really she had a pretty good deal!"
 
2013-12-19 11:36:35 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: It also turns out that she was treated a lot better than anyone else in that situation would have been.

"She was not, as has been incorrectly reported, arrested in front of her children. The agents arrested her in the most discreet way possible, and unlike most defendants, she was not then handcuffed or restrained. In fact, the arresting officers did not even seize her phone as they normally would have. Instead, they offered her the opportunity to make numerous calls to arrange personal matters and contact whomever she needed, including allowing her to arrange for child care. This lasted approximately two hours. Because it was cold outside, the agents let her make those calls from their car and even brought her coffee and offered to get her food"

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/December13/KhobragadeS ta tement.php


So yeah. Fark this biatch.


Sure, but did they kiss her ass? Did they kill the maid?
 
2013-12-19 11:37:09 AM  

Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.



Yea, India would have to be pretty hard-core in their trolling to be willing to appoint a random person to US-ambassador just to get her immunity -- because I think you need to be quite high up to actually get full immunity, IIRC.
 
2013-12-19 11:40:01 AM  

lennavan: Yep. Now with citation:


Appreciated. Busy morning around here. Need to finish all work so that tomorrow can be 100% dedicated to Office Christmas Party.
 
2013-12-19 11:40:07 AM  

jshine: joness0154: Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.

You could always pay a higher (legal) salary and then ask for a certain amount of $$ back as compensation for the housing, meals, etc.  Or, alternatively, the housekeeper could keep the full amount and live outside the consulate and provide those things for herself, but given the costs involved in NY, that option would probably cost far, far more.

Seems like that should all be legal.


Except for the fact you are required to not charge more than 20% for housing and food and stuff. Source: post above.
 
2013-12-19 11:41:17 AM  

machodonkeywrestler: joness0154: justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.

Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.

OK. Please give me the contact info of your immediate supervisor and we will rewrite your contract.


So you think, especially in NYC, that a large portion of the unskilled labor force there would NOT take that arrangement?  Can you even find housing, eat, and have anything left over in NYC making minimum wage?

justtray: joness0154: justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.

Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.

So basically you're pro slavery then?

While I'm not an attorney, I will guarantee that is still illegal.

"No your honor, you see she wasn't a slave because while I paid her barely enough to afford a Big Mac meal, I also forced her to live in my house, never leave, and fed her the leftovers that were spoiled, so really she had a pretty good deal!"


Where did I ever say that?

I said I don't see any issue with paying someone (agreed upon, of course) $3/hour if housing and meals is provided.  In NYC, I'm sure a large part of the unskilled labor force making minimum wage currently would benefit from that arrangement.  Nowhere did I say anything about forcing anything.
 
2013-12-19 11:42:35 AM  

CheatCommando: BigNumber12: I hope we stick you in a coach-class middle seat right back to your filthy, barbaric country

No-fly list her sorry ass and put her on a slow boat home.


Can she go through a TSA checkpoint while boarding the boat? She looks suspicious.
 
2013-12-19 11:42:42 AM  

Chigau: My observation on caste systems in the work place, especially with Indian populations, is that it comes down to your parents.  My parents are farmers (considered low caste), so in the eyes of some of my Indian employees I should be the same caste as a farmer, as one does not switch castes without divine intervention or the help of a fairy godmother.  So it doesn't come to my employees minds that my parents are college educated, owning all of their own land and equipment, and making a comfortable life for themselves as they approach retirement.  It doesn't occur to them that i have several years of experience in my field, as well as a masters degree.  Many cant seem to comprehend these things, or maybe they choose not to.  

All they see is that I should be of a lower caste than they were in India, and they resent it.  I have actually had my subordinates say that a "Filthy farms-son" has no right to tell them what to do.   I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.


Celebrate diversity.
 
2013-12-19 11:43:21 AM  

Fano: Also, it's election season.

Let's talk about the recent ban on homosexuals.


I'm waiting for the day you can coast to election glory by offering repeal of such laws. Bonus if it's done "to protect families and children".
 
2013-12-19 11:43:35 AM  

Target Builder: AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


This is my understanding as well. Also immunity does not apply for any and all behavior either. A Russian diplomat was convicted of vehicular homicide for drunk driving a decade or so ago and actually spent part of his sentence in a US prison, with the rest being served in Russia (which was probably something of a joke).
 
2013-12-19 11:44:24 AM  

Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


They're apparently already trying. Last I'd heard, she'd been "transferred to the relevant department" but nobody at the UN or US had seen the relevant paperwork.

They seem determined to go full r*tard on this one.
 
2013-12-19 11:44:57 AM  

Anschauer: Reciprocity is a good thing to have in your pocket and this was mishandled.


I have a feeling your approach was probably tried without effect. Perhaps not in this case, but perhaps with other Indian diplomats to the point that State finally had enough of their shiat.
 
2013-12-19 11:45:02 AM  

jshine: Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


Yea, India would have to be pretty hard-core in their trolling to be willing to appoint a random person to US-ambassador just to get her immunity -- because I think you need to be quite high up to actually get full immunity, IIRC.


They don't have to be an ambassador to get full diplomatic immunity.  It looks like India has already shifted her into a position at the UN which would get her diplomatic immunity.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/18/arrested-indian-diplomat-could-be-eligi bl e-for-immunity/

Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it.  Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application?  My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.
 
2013-12-19 11:46:15 AM  
The US Marshals Service confirmed it had strip-searched Khobragade and placed her in a cell with other female defendants last Thursday, saying the measures are "standard arrestee intake procedures."

Not for diplomats, it isn't.
 
2013-12-19 11:48:11 AM  

justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.


A strip search wouldn't reveal that. You'd need a cavity search. And somehow this woman doesn't strike me as the type to hide a weapon in her body to use in jail. That's just me. Plus she's a diplomat so that should grant her a little bit more benefit of the doubt?

I know the minimum wage is the law of the land and not following it is illegal. Minimum wage was racist in its inception and it is unintentionally racist now. The law was originally made to protect white workers from black or immigrant workers who were willing to do the same job for less money because their costs of living were much lower. So bump up the lowest cost of labor and employers won't want to take a risk hiring people on the lowest end of the economic ladder

Nowadays our school system is simply failing minorities - ESPECIALLY urban blacks in appalling ways. They don't come out of high school (if they can be convinced to stay that long) with the basic reading and math skills to take many minimum wage jobs. And the higher it goes the more minority unemployed youth we have. I'd love to be able to pass laws to ignore reality but that just doesn't happen
 
2013-12-19 11:48:14 AM  

joness0154: machodonkeywrestler: joness0154: justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.

Contract issues aside (which appear to have been violated in this case), I don't see an issue paying $3/hour when housing, meals, etc. is provided.

OK. Please give me the contact info of your immediate supervisor and we will rewrite your contract.

So you think, especially in NYC, that a large portion of the unskilled labor force there would NOT take that arrangement?  Can you even find housing, eat, and have anything left over in NYC making minimum wage?


Yes, I do think most people would not take it.  Federal minimum wage is not enough, that is why NY minimum is about $2 more per hour. You really need to stop making excuses for terrible excuse for a human being.
 
2013-12-19 11:48:29 AM  

CheatCommando: This is my understanding as well. Also immunity does not apply for any and all behavior either. A Russian diplomat was convicted of vehicular homicide for drunk driving a decade or so ago and actually spent part of his sentence in a US prison, with the rest being served in Russia (which was probably something of a joke).


IIRC he actually had full immunity but Russia waived it because the crime was so egregious (he killed a teenager).

Not sure if this was the case you were talking about (when I googled it, there have apparently been a lot of instances of Russian diplomats driving drunk):  http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/20/news/mn-531
 
2013-12-19 11:48:34 AM  

joness0154: Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it. Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application? My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.


Or just cancels her visa and expels her from the country without prosecution, which is always an option.
 
2013-12-19 11:49:57 AM  

joness0154: "No your honor, you see she wasn't a slave because while I paid her barely enough to afford a Big Mac meal, I also forced her to live in my house, never leave, and fed her the leftovers that were spoiled, so really she had a pretty good deal!"

Where did I ever say that?

I said I don't see any issue with paying someone (agreed upon, of course) $3/hour if housing and meals is provided. In NYC, I'm sure a large part of the unskilled labor force making minimum wage currently would benefit from that arrangement. Nowhere did I say anything about forcing anything.


I was showing you why what you described is also illegal. I figured there was some percentage that is allowed for such a situation, which never applies to people on minimum wage because no one is deducing $1.5 per hour to trade off having to pay for all their room and board.

As mentioned above, it's 20% of the salary here. That's how they avoid the imaginary scenario I described above.

Either way you're still defending the concept of slavery. Are you willing to work for $3 per hour for the rest of your life and live in with the people you're taking care of, look after them 24 hours per day? But hey, you get fed, you just don't get to eat with the people you serve. You eat after they've eaten, by yourself, in your room the size of a closet.

It just shocks me how ignorant Americans are about the disgusting maid abuses Southeast Asia sees as commonplace.

And lets be perfectly honest, that's what this comes down to. Everyone in South East Asia has slaves from either India or the Phillipines that they pay nothing, make live in 7x7 foot rooms, often outside not in the air conditioning, and they pay them what would be a fraction of minimum wage here. This woman felt entitled to that service at the rate she would pay at home, and the government that employs her endorsed it. If I had my way I'd make an example of her and lock her up for 10 years. This will never happen again on US soil.
 
2013-12-19 11:50:15 AM  

Elroydb: justtray: Elroydb: Come on John Kerry FIX IT. India is strong ally of us and we don't need minor things to spiral out of control. I have an idea - be HONEST with what went on, admit that the NYPD isn't always your kind and gentle police force (I don't think a diplomat needed to be STRIP SEARCHED and if that is standard procedure for all arrested individuals in NYC that worries me greatly) and see what give and take we need to do for both parties to be made whole. This needs to be wrapped up as quickly and cleanly as possible

Also GodComblex you should read some of Hayek's works :o I find it hard to tell someone that they can't do something if they agreed upon it without force, fraud, or coercion. Which the latter two seemed to be at play

Everyone who goes into Gen Pop gets strip searched. Otherwise you get shanked from crazy people who hide contraband up their butt. Like your head.

A contract is not valid if it violates federal law or for a number of merit based reasons including but not limited to coercion or changing the terms of the contract at any point.

Minimum wage in the US is what it is because that's what it takes to SURVIVE living here. Not live confortably, but SURVIVE.

A strip search wouldn't reveal that. You'd need a cavity search. And somehow this woman doesn't strike me as the type to hide a weapon in her body to use in jail. That's just me. Plus she's a diplomat so that should grant her a little bit more benefit of the doubt?

I know the minimum wage is the law of the land and not following it is illegal. Minimum wage was racist in its inception and it is unintentionally racist now. The law was originally made to protect white workers from black or immigrant workers who were willing to do the same job for less money because their costs of living were much lower. So bump up the lowest cost of labor and employers won't want to take a risk hiring people on the lowest end of the economic ladder

Nowadays our school system is simply failing minoritie ...


Good way to get out of actually paying your employees. Your econimc model has been proven false time and time again.
 
2013-12-19 11:50:19 AM  

GodComplex: This whole situation is a travesty. How dare they treat this fine upstanding citizen this way when all she did was offer a mutually agreed upon contract in which services were exchanged for income. This women was providing job opportunities for the unskilled, it was the maid's choice to work for that wage, and who are you to tell her otherwise?

http://cafehayek.com/2013/12/more-questions-for-proponents-of-pricin g- low-skilled-workers-out-of-jobs.html

/I wish I made this up..


Miss Thing claimed to be paying her maid $4500 a month when she was actually paying ~ a quarter of that.
 
2013-12-19 11:50:34 AM  
jshine:
If the punishment for her alleged crime was as serious as it seems, and given that she's a foreign diplomat, the probability of her fleeing the jurisdiction seems pretty high.  ...so she probably needed to be arrested and held.  And realistically, if you're going to arrest someone and put them into a jail cell, then for the safety of the guards and other prisoners you do need to be sure they aren't armed.  That's going to require a search.  Nothing about this seems too out of place, really.

Everyone on the small minor crimes get arrested and held. Anyone can. Even you. Has nothing to do with her being a diplomat. So she was held for a couple of hours... So that she could surrender her passport and post bail? That could not have happened outside the jail? My beef has nothing to do with diplomacy, it is the state of Law Enforcement into Judicial that I am having problems with. Americans have been stripped and probed for any remainders of their liberties and feelings of dignity and freedom and folks like you (exemplified) don't even know it!

You are wrong about the search. the US Marchall office specifically has guidelines from 2010 (don't have a link right now but I am searching...) that specifically state that only those persons who are in danger of being harm to others and themselves require that type of extensive search. A diplomat for such office does not warrant this type of search.
 
2013-12-19 11:51:54 AM  
She will be visited by 3 ghosts tonight.
 
2013-12-19 11:52:43 AM  

joness0154: jshine: Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


Yea, India would have to be pretty hard-core in their trolling to be willing to appoint a random person to US-ambassador just to get her immunity -- because I think you need to be quite high up to actually get full immunity, IIRC.

They don't have to be an ambassador to get full diplomatic immunity.  It looks like India has already shifted her into a position at the UN which would get her diplomatic immunity.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/18/arrested-indian-diplomat-could-be-eligi bl e-for-immunity/

Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it.  Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application?  My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.


The thing I don't get - why does India care so much. I mean this lady is obviously well off, but she's nowhere near the top of the ladder (by outside appearances). Yet the Indian government has gone straight to DEFCON 1, over a moderately well connected civil servant who broke the law while she was supposed to be representing her country.
 
2013-12-19 11:53:10 AM  
FSM knows that the ideals of equality are far too often in this country unrelated to reality, but I can't help thinking the fact that we have such ideas puts us ahead of a lot of places.
 
2013-12-19 11:53:45 AM  

Chigau: caste systems.  some people cant break away from them, even with a change of environment.


She is low caste - Dalit - which I understand in Modern India is an advantage because they have something similar to "affirmative action" the US. This gives preferential treatment to those of low caste and possibly low marks when applying to prestigious schools.

I do think the maid planned to do this all along but Khobragade fell for it and retaliated against the maid's family in India.  There have been other instances of Indian maids suing their employers in the US.

Also I have a real crush on the Preet Bharara.

Lunch with the FT: Preet Bharara, the prosecutor credited with "busting" Wall Street:  http://on.ft.com/Q5HRJx
 
2013-12-19 11:54:14 AM  

balki1867: CheatCommando: This is my understanding as well. Also immunity does not apply for any and all behavior either. A Russian diplomat was convicted of vehicular homicide for drunk driving a decade or so ago and actually spent part of his sentence in a US prison, with the rest being served in Russia (which was probably something of a joke).

IIRC he actually had full immunity but Russia waived it because the crime was so egregious (he killed a teenager).

Not sure if this was the case you were talking about (when I googled it, there have apparently been a lot of instances of Russian diplomats driving drunk):  http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/20/news/mn-531


That's the one. Thanks for the clarification.
 
2013-12-19 11:54:15 AM  

joness0154: Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it. Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application? My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.


John Kerry already called to "express regret."  It's a foregone conclusion this woman gets away with it because we can't piss off India, they could severely damage our economy.  So the US will search for a solution that placates everyone.  Indian courts are claiming they have jurisdiction, so I'm guessing think that's the solution - send her to India for trial.  Of course the trial there will be a huge sham if it ever even happens but Kerry can sell to the American public she will face trial there because we don't have jurisdiction and from India's perspective she gets off completely free.
 
2013-12-19 11:56:24 AM  

justtray: Dude if you don't understand standard procedure for keeping ...

The problem is that you are so conditioned to believe that it is standard and justified -- that you have absolutely no problems with that. Until it will be your wife, daughter, son, mother, husband, father, grandpa, grandma, you yourself....
No. It is not a standard procedure.
USMS directives, reviewed by ET, stipulate that such searches can be done only if there is "reasonable suspicion" that the person arrested is carrying contraband or weapons, is a repeat offender or is considered a security, escape or suicide risk.

The directives, in place since 2010, clearly lay down four kinds of searches - pat-down search, in-custody search, strip search and digital cavity search - with the last two used only in specific circumstances.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/27612473.cms?utm_sour c e=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst">http://econom ictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/27612473.cms?utm_sourc e=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 
2013-12-19 11:56:34 AM  

Target Builder: joness0154: jshine: Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


Yea, India would have to be pretty hard-core in their trolling to be willing to appoint a random person to US-ambassador just to get her immunity -- because I think you need to be quite high up to actually get full immunity, IIRC.

They don't have to be an ambassador to get full diplomatic immunity.  It looks like India has already shifted her into a position at the UN which would get her diplomatic immunity.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/18/arrested-indian-diplomat-could-be-eligi bl e-for-immunity/

Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it.  Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application?  My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.

The thing I don't get - why does India care so much. I mean this lady is obviously well off, but she's nowhere near the top of the ladder (by outside appearances). Yet the Indian government has gone straight to DEFCON 1, over a moderately well connected civil servant who broke the law while she was supposed to be representing her country.


Same reason we went to DEFCON 1 over Raymond Davis, the CIA contractor who gunned down 2 Pakistanis a few years back...
 
2013-12-19 11:56:46 AM  

sage254: Everyone on the small minor crimes get arrested and held. Anyone can. Even you.


If I got arrested and held for a few hours, I think I'd survive without creating an international diplomatic incident.  Yes, it would be annoying, especially if it was an error, but such is life.  The system guarantees due process, but not in 30 seconds or less.
 
2013-12-19 11:58:30 AM  

Target Builder: The thing I don't get - why does India care so much. I mean this lady is obviously well off, but she's nowhere near the top of the ladder (by outside appearances). Yet the Indian government has gone straight to DEFCON 1, over a moderately well connected civil servant who broke the law while she was supposed to be representing her country.


$3/hour is a ton of money to many people in India.  That's why that part isn't a big deal to them.  We say she only made $3/hour.  They think "holy crap, the US jailed a diplomat for making her maid rich?"

I think the comparison would be to imagine arresting and strip searching a female American diplomat because she was found to be chatting with a non-relative male in Saudi Arabia.
 
2013-12-19 11:59:25 AM  

Target Builder: joness0154: jshine: Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


Yea, India would have to be pretty hard-core in their trolling to be willing to appoint a random person to US-ambassador just to get her immunity -- because I think you need to be quite high up to actually get full immunity, IIRC.

They don't have to be an ambassador to get full diplomatic immunity.  It looks like India has already shifted her into a position at the UN which would get her diplomatic immunity.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/18/arrested-indian-diplomat-could-be-eligi bl e-for-immunity/

Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it.  Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application?  My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.

The thing I don't get - why does India care so much. I mean this lady is obviously well off, but she's nowhere near the top of the ladder (by outside appearances). Yet the Indian government has gone straight to DEFCON 1, over a moderately well connected civil servant who broke the law while she was supposed to be representing her country.


This also is what confuses me. Why are they going all out for this low level agent?
 
2013-12-19 12:00:02 PM  

lennavan: I think the comparison would be to imagine arresting and strip searching a female American diplomat because she was found to be chatting with a non-relative male in Saudi Arabia.


Whore.
 
2013-12-19 12:00:29 PM  

justtray: Either way you're still defending the concept of slavery. Are you willing to work for $3 per hour for the rest of your life and live in with the people you're taking care of, look after them 24 hours per day? But hey, you get fed, you just don't get to eat with the people you serve. You eat after they've eaten, by yourself, in your room the size of a closet.


No, I'm not.  I'm defending a mutual contractual agreement by 2 persons.  Nowhere did I mention working 24 hours/day and having a room the size of a closet.  There are many arrangements (think au pair - we had one when I was an infant..however they do earn at least minimum wage) where it works out for all individuals involved.
 
2013-12-19 12:01:29 PM  

justtray: Dude if you don't understand standard procedure for keeping people safe when arrested, just shut the fark up and don't post. This has been covered multiple times. It is to keep the people in jail SAFE from eachother. It has a valid purpose and will never change. She was charged with a felony and is facing up to 15 years in federal prison.


You mad bro? You really mad bro. Glad to make you mad. Too bad you are not mad at American government. It's been cavity searching your freedom for such a long time, you began to like it.

Let me restate again. This goes against US MARSHAL OFFICE PROCEDURES.
economictimes.indiatimes.com
 
2013-12-19 12:02:07 PM  

RexTalionis: I have ZERO sympathy for Khobragade. When the maid, Sangeeta Richard, filed a lawsuit against Khobragade, did you know what she did?

Khobragade had Richard's husband and children in India arrested and held in detention.

This is the kind of person we're talking about.

Source:

"July 8: Richard visited an immigration attorney's firm in Manhattan, New York. A person present there told Rediff.com then that four individuals from the consulate soon arrived at the attorney's office.

There were discussions, and reports indicated Richard demanded a sum as her wages, and an ordinary Indian passport.

Meanwhile, her husband and child in India were taken into custody, according to the witness. A scared Richard spoke with them, and refused to leave the attorney's office premises."

http://m.rediff.com/news/report/diplomats-arrest-trouble-was-brewing -s ince-june/20131217.htm



I will be very disappointed in our State Department people if this woman isn't PNG'd right back to India.
 
2013-12-19 12:02:18 PM  
joness0154:

Same reason we went to DEFCON 1 over Raymond Davis, the CIA contractor who gunned down 2 Pakistanis a few years back...

Didn't he turn out the be the guy who was running the CIA operations in half of Pakistan at the time?
 
2013-12-19 12:03:16 PM  

Fano: Target Builder: joness0154: jshine: Target Builder: joness0154: India will just move her into a position where she WILL have diplomatic immunity.

AFAIK Diplomatic Immunity is given by the host country. India would have to promote this woman to a position in the embassy high enough to get full diplomatic immunity and then apply to the US to ask them to grant her full diplomatic immunity - which the US could refuse.


Yea, India would have to be pretty hard-core in their trolling to be willing to appoint a random person to US-ambassador just to get her immunity -- because I think you need to be quite high up to actually get full immunity, IIRC.

They don't have to be an ambassador to get full diplomatic immunity.  It looks like India has already shifted her into a position at the UN which would get her diplomatic immunity.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/18/arrested-indian-diplomat-could-be-eligi bl e-for-immunity/

Of course, the US State Dept. would have to sign off on it.  Here's the big question...is it in the US best interests to strain ties with India (one of our strongest allies) by denying her application?  My guess is the US grants it and gives her full diplomatic immunity.

The thing I don't get - why does India care so much. I mean this lady is obviously well off, but she's nowhere near the top of the ladder (by outside appearances). Yet the Indian government has gone straight to DEFCON 1, over a moderately well connected civil servant who broke the law while she was supposed to be representing her country.

This also is what confuses me. Why are they going all out for this low level agent?


Because it's the duty of a country to protect it's citizenry when they are acting as diplomats abroad?  Particularly so because this arrangement the diplomat had with the housemaid is likely the norm in India and many people in India would kill for $3/hour.

We get infuriated when our citizens get arrested in host countries (think UAE, etc.) for doing things we consider normal like having sex and drinking.
 
2013-12-19 12:06:04 PM  

Elroydb: A strip search wouldn't reveal that. You'd need a cavity search. And somehow this woman doesn't strike me as the type to hide a weapon in her body to use in jail. That's just me. Plus she's a diplomat so that should grant her a little bit more benefit of the doubt?


If we do that, then basically we are allowing only rich people charged with white collar crimes to not be strip searched. It's for everyone's safety, and unfortunately she'll have to deal with it.

I'm sure if she wasn't rich, Indian jail would be a much more harrowing experience than American jail.
 
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