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(News 13 Orlando)   SeaWorld: Our killer whales are fine. Have a Groupon (Hey, it works for Walmart...)   (mynews13.com) divider line 57
    More: Florida, Groupon, killer, SeaWorld Orlando, SeaWorld  
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2782 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2013 at 7:59 PM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-18 08:03:55 PM  
Without Shamu.

Since when did cost $100 to go to Sea world.  Get off my lawn.
 
2013-12-18 08:04:10 PM  
I just watched Blackfish last night.   Now I feel bad for going to SeaWorld San Diego 20 years ago.
 
2013-12-18 08:07:29 PM  
Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?
 
2013-12-18 08:11:25 PM  
If Sea world is unable to release the orcas because they cant live in the wild and they want to get rid of them to keep the PETArds happy Ill bet the Japaneese whalers would take them off your hands for you.
 
2013-12-18 08:11:59 PM  

IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?


There are plenty of places (like the Florida Aquarium or the Clearwater Aquarium) that do the exact same thing but they don't kidnap killer whales to perform dumb tricks for tourists.
 
2013-12-18 08:12:49 PM  

Rent Party: I just watched Blackfish last night.   Now I feel bad for going to SeaWorld San Diego 20 years ago.


Agreed.

I had once believed Seaworld's party line, regarding creating awareness for cetaceans, etc.

Now I am convinced these guys, if given the opportunity, would create awareness for Darfur and the CAR by hacking up a bunch villagers with machetes.

Monsters for a dollar.

\these people make me stabby
\\All possibly sentient creatures should be released, and studied as if they were sentient.  Didn't anyone see Planet of the Apes...?
 
2013-12-18 08:12:56 PM  
Sea World is a theme park company. They are not a wildlife institution.
 
2013-12-18 08:13:05 PM  
Killer whales attacking and killing their trainers.  Dolphins trying to slip female swimmer the love log.  The world has turned upside down!  Thanks Obama.
 
2013-12-18 08:15:35 PM  

IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?


citationneeded.jpg
 
2013-12-18 08:15:58 PM  
IamAwake: <rant>

Anyone here know how many girls Glenn Beck raped and murdered in 1990? How many of you have girlfriends who were raped or molested as children, and haven't done anything about it?

You may have a point, but you've obscured it. Point us to evidence of these things, otherwise, skeptics that we are, we'll assume you're just shilling for them by asking what appear to be rhetorical questions. I'd really like to hear that they're doing good things.
 
2013-12-18 08:16:13 PM  

IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?


You've asked a lot of pointed questions implying answers but you haven't answered them.

Do you know that two wrongs don't make a right?
 
2013-12-18 08:16:23 PM  

Oldiron_79: If Sea world is unable to release the orcas because they cant live in the wild and they want to get rid of them to keep the PETArds happy Ill bet the Japaneese whalers would take them off your hands for you.


i.imgur.com

Or the Mexicans.
 
2013-12-18 08:16:34 PM  

IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?


Good luck pal, you can't use logic and facts when speaking to the granola army. You may not know, but it doesn't matter the amount of wildlife treated or saved by SeaWorld, or their charatible causes, there is a negative documentary AND IT MUST BE RECOGNIZED AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You see, that's how propoganda works.
 
2013-12-18 08:24:55 PM  

FARK in FL: IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?

Good luck pal, you can't use logic and facts when speaking to the granola army. You may not know, but it doesn't matter the amount of wildlife treated or saved by SeaWorld, or their charatible causes, there is a negative documentary AND IT MUST BE RECOGNIZED AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You see, that's how propoganda works.


Considering they have several people who had worked for Seaworld for several years and representatives from OSHA, I find the documentary quite compelling.

In terms of how much relief they provide to injured wild animals, or whatever altruistic activities they engage in, it does not cover the harm.  Let me try to give a fair analogy: If I was to trophy hunt an African elephant, then lop of his tusks and carve a relief to portray saving the elephants designs (and logos), I am still a dirtbag.
 
2013-12-18 08:25:25 PM  

FARK in FL: IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?

Good luck pal, you can't use logic and facts when speaking to the granola army. You may not know, but it doesn't matter the amount of wildlife treated or saved by SeaWorld, or their charatible causes, there is a negative documentary AND IT MUST BE RECOGNIZED AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You see, that's how propoganda works.


Oh bullshiat. Sea World doesn't need killer whales to do all that other stuff. Here in Florida, it's absurd anyway. There's no killer whales in the wild for thousands of miles around Florida, it seems like an odd way to educate a distant tourist about the sea if all they remember about Florida is that is where they saw the killer whale dance. That's like visiting a cage full of kangaroos in Austria.
 
2013-12-18 08:26:02 PM  

Confabulat: Sea World is a theme park company. They are not a wildlife institution.


They are both.
 
2013-12-18 08:26:49 PM  

Confabulat: There are plenty of places (like the Florida Aquarium or the Clearwater Aquarium) that do the exact same thing but they don't kidnap killer whales to perform dumb tricks for tourists.


There are other places which were the first to isolate and characterize a virus in the entire delphinidae  family?  Odd, I always imagined that firsts could only happen once.  Can you name an aquarium anywhere that has paid for published research into wildlife conservation?  A specific paper.  Bonus if they found an virus which causes immune-deficiency and that is in the wild and spreading.

Dogs like to be played with.   They like having someone toss them a frisbee, wrestle with them, etc.  How is that not the same?

We're likely to not have Koalas in the wild in none to many years - similar reason.

All that said, I don't like some of (a lot of?) what they do.  But, I'm not a bloody hypocrite about it, either; I actually engage in animal welfare and rights activities.  I'm even vegan - just for fun.  If you don't like what they do there, why the fark did you watch the Hobbit movie, with the animals treated so horribly during the production of that movie?  Why does the typical TMZ-tard have a yippy purse-pooch?  Seaworld does in fact do good things; whether they outweigh the bad, I dunno.  But there are a lot of things we as a society are perfectly ok with - things which are undeniably bad.  The meat industry, pets, animals in movies...so why the hate on Seaworld in particular, when at worst they're just a reflection of society at large, and are arguably much better than society at large in terms of animal welfare?
 
2013-12-18 08:30:32 PM  
First off, the people that own Sea World in 2013 are not the people who have historically owned Sea World. They were sold off when InBev bought Anheuser-Busch a few years ago and spun off the theme parks because they weren't interested. Sea World is run by an investment firm in 2013, nothing more, nothing less.

They are interested in the bottom line, not animal welfare. I don't know what you thought happened.
 
2013-12-18 08:30:49 PM  
 
2013-12-18 08:31:41 PM  

Confabulat: First off, the people that own Sea World in 2013 are not the people who have historically owned Sea World. They were sold off when InBev bought Anheuser-Busch a few years ago and spun off the theme parks because they weren't interested. Sea World is run by an investment firm in 2013, nothing more, nothing less.

They are interested in the bottom line, not animal welfare. I don't know what you thought happened.

This

is also true.  That said, it's not as though the investment firm is who started the dancing shows :P
 
2013-12-18 08:31:57 PM  

Confabulat: FARK in FL: IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?

How many of the people who have a problem with this, also have a dog or a cat?  Or worse, a mutated tiny rat of a dog, such as the TMZ-fans tend to have - little pocket pooches that have been selectively mutated into miserable little rats that fit into a purse?

Good luck pal, you can't use logic and facts when speaking to the granola army. You may not know, but it doesn't matter the amount of wildlife treated or saved by SeaWorld, or their charatible causes, there is a negative documentary AND IT MUST BE RECOGNIZED AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You see, that's how propoganda works.

Oh bullshiat. Sea World doesn't need killer whales to do all that other stuff. Here in Florida, it's absurd anyway. There's no killer whales in the wild for thousands of miles around Florida, it seems like an odd way to educate a distant tourist about the sea if all they remember about Florida is that is where they saw the killer whale dance. That's like visiting a cage full of kangaroos in Austria.


That might be more likely than you think.
 
2013-12-18 08:32:27 PM  

gingerjet: Confabulat: Sea World is a theme park company. They are not a wildlife institution.

They are both.


Okay, how do you support that position?  They may do some of both, but it is primarily a for profit institution.  The wildlife portion I attribute to getting good press (goodwill value on the balance sheet), and tax credits, but I admit to pulling that from my ass (although it makes too much sense to deny).
 
2013-12-18 08:34:09 PM  

IamAwake: That said, it's not as though the investment firm is who started the dancing shows :P


That's true enough. If Sea World was smart and sincere about animal welfare, they would get out in front of this controversy by announcing they are going to phase out those shows. They've become far too offensive to real animal lovers to ever attract that crowd again, so all they have is the dimwitted tourist types who just want to clap and sing with the whale.

All they have to do is keep their current whales in a more dignified habitat, continue a breeding program if necessary, and act like they really care. Right now they are completely tone deaf and it's going to ruin them.
 
2013-12-18 08:34:43 PM  

IamAwake: farkinglizardking: citationneeded.jpg

For what, this?  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2786842/


I'll go a step further - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=St.%20Leger%20JA[auth]

That happens to be the head immunologist for Seaworld.
 
2013-12-18 08:36:11 PM  

Confabulat: IamAwake: That said, it's not as though the investment firm is who started the dancing shows :P

That's true enough. If Sea World was smart and sincere about animal welfare, they would get out in front of this controversy by announcing they are going to phase out those shows. They've become far too offensive to real animal lovers to ever attract that crowd again, so all they have is the dimwitted tourist types who just want to clap and sing with the whale.

All they have to do is keep their current whales in a more dignified habitat, continue a breeding program if necessary, and act like they really care. Right now they are completely tone deaf and it's going to ruin them.


Unfortunately there are a plethora of dimwitted tourist types in the world.
 
2013-12-18 08:39:05 PM  

Puffy McBooze: Unfortunately there are a plethora of dimwitted tourist types in the world.


Do you have any idea what has happened to research funding during the last couple years?  Wildlife conservation research has always been on shoe-string budgets - now, it's almost impossible to get anything at all.

If the creators of Blackfish put the proceeds to funding conservation research, I might be less critical.  However, an investment firm is still funding wildlife research.  That is unheard-of elsewhere.
 
2013-12-18 08:47:10 PM  

IamAwake: However, an investment firm is still funding wildlife research.  That is unheard-of elsewhere.


Yet. Tax write off + good PR = more profits .
 
2013-12-18 08:48:42 PM  
>being worried about whales
>still eats bacon
because whales are cute and pigs are ugly!
 
2013-12-18 08:53:15 PM  
I dunno how Groupon works exactly. I do know that a dude I know has a BBQ restaurant in the southend that has a pretty good reputation. They're always super busy on the weekends, and do a fair amount of business the rest of the week. I think a salesman type came in or something and sold him on the idea of the whole Groupon thing. He didn't hear anything for a couple months, then it all came out at once, pretty much without notice. In three days, he'd sold out his whole stock, was using credit cards to restock the meats and the ingredients for the sauces, and was losing money hand over fist as he was selling the items in the Groupon thing at well below cost.

He ended up having to close the place for a couple of weeks until he got the "refund" from Groupon, which was enough to pay the credit card and some of the bills but ended up being less than half of what they said it would be. He almost went out of business. He bailed out of the Groupon deal completely, and as far as I know, is doing business as he was before. There was some interesting mutterings about a lawsuit, but I don't know if that went anywhere.
 
2013-12-18 09:02:05 PM  

Shadi: >being worried about whales
>still eats bacon
because whales are cute taste like shiat and pigs are ugly tasty!


FTFY
 
2013-12-18 09:02:26 PM  

IamAwake: Confabulat: First off, the people that own Sea World in 2013 are not the people who have historically owned Sea World. They were sold off when InBev bought Anheuser-Busch a few years ago and spun off the theme parks because they weren't interested. Sea World is run by an investment firm in 2013, nothing more, nothing less.

They are interested in the bottom line, not animal welfare. I don't know what you thought happened.

This is also true.  That said, it's not as though the investment firm is who started the dancing shows :P


This and this are both true.

There was a period of time--I want to say the late 80's and through the 90's--when Sea World was scaling back on the large mammal shows precisely because of public outcry (I know, because I went several times before and after this period and saw the shows myself). Compared to shows in the 70's, the shows during this period were pretty low-key, the dolphins and orcas did a few jumps and a lot more interaction with the trainers. Once during that period, I went and they didn't even have a show (this was in Orlando) because one of the females had just calved and they were using the big performance tank for her and the baby and didn't want to upset any of the animals.

It's only been very recently that they've gone back to the Orcaspectacular gosh-wow lights&music shows. It's pretty obvious that they're in the shows for the money; and considering how much other stuff is available at Sea World, they don't really need them. But Sea World DOES do a lot of very important research and rescue work; I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater because people can't get past the mean CEOs being mean to the poor sweet killer whales.
 
2013-12-18 09:27:06 PM  

Puffy McBooze: Confabulat: IamAwake: That said, it's not as though the investment firm is who started the dancing shows :P

That's true enough. If Sea World was smart and sincere about animal welfare, they would get out in front of this controversy by announcing they are going to phase out those shows. They've become far too offensive to real animal lovers to ever attract that crowd again, so all they have is the dimwitted tourist types who just want to clap and sing with the whale.

All they have to do is keep their current whales in a more dignified habitat, continue a breeding program if necessary, and act like they really care. Right now they are completely tone deaf and it's going to ruin them.

Unfortunately there are a plethora of dimwitted tourist types in the world.


Would you say I have a plethora of pinjatas?
 
2013-12-18 09:45:32 PM  
I can only speak to my own experience. I've known several trainers, and they have all, without exception, been totally devoted to the Orcas. They would happily give up their own time if it meant enriching the Orcas' experience, and spent countless hours to engage them. I can't speak to corporate policy, but I know the trainers themselves are fully involved with the whales.
 
2013-12-18 09:50:08 PM  
Seaworld has advanced our collective knowledge of ocean life and orcas in particular. They employee many of the top experts in the field. Does that mean they get a pass for how they manage their animals? I think it gives them less of one. Does anyone actually learn anything about nature from watching a guy jump off the nose of an animal to rock music and fireworks? I don't know what the best solution for the animals is here. Seaworld has broken up their normal pod structure. Many of the orcas have known health issues and those that don't were likely born in their pools/crossbred with other subtypes or have social issues that would make them difficult to release. "Freedom" likely isn't the solution for most of them but the shows need to be reconsidered. The whole management plan needs to be reconsidered and I think that having the experts they do Seaworld should have been the first people calling for those changes. They've been caught with their pants down hoping no one would notice.
 
2013-12-18 10:24:48 PM  

IamAwake: Anyone here know how much wildlife conservation research for large marine mammals, such as the Orca, Seaworld has done?  Including paying for the research which identified the first virus to be isolated and characterized in Orcas, as well as the screening for that virus?

Anyone here familiar with the fact that Seaworld is a very common go-to for wildlife officials on either coast, when they've found a large injured marine mammal that needs medical treatment?

Anyone here know how many animals Seaworld keeps, entertains, etc that were mangled in the wild (boat accidents, etc) and will never be on a public exhibit?


no we don't, because someone keeps posting dumb rhetorical questions without actually answering them ;)
 
2013-12-18 11:01:34 PM  

IamAwake: Dogs like to be played with. They like having someone toss them a frisbee, wrestle with them, etc. How is that not the same?

We're likely to not have Koalas in the wild in none to many years - similar reason.


I think you popped a logic cog there sparky, or forgot to cut n paste something.

Good to see you're out pushing the talking points, though.  Good to know someone's getting paid.

/Always cheaper to treat something like this as a PR problem and wait for it to go away than you know... actually fix the problem.
 
2013-12-18 11:09:35 PM  
i'm of two minds about this one...  i can definitely say i will always appreciate the work that they've done.  i mean, shamu pretty much single-finnedly broke the stereotyping of the "killer whale", especially as field research became more readily available for publication and aquarium exhibits... at this point, i don't agree with the idea of a healthy whale who can be reintroduced to the wild being kept... but on the other hand, somewhere (moving beyond the focus of seaworld, but it applies across the board for me) that is treating injured whales, have a successful breeding program, etc. would be doing MORE harm to those animals by releasing them if they're not 100% sure that they'll survive in the wild.  as long as the facilities are designed and maintained by a standard code...  it's not like the average animal shelter where an animal that's been rescued and rehabilitated can be adopted by someone who'll care for it...  so let the workers who care about the animals do their jobs.

/male dolphins will fark anything whether it moves or not, it's well-documented behavior
//fark the stage show aspect to seaworld though.  train the animals to show off, fine, but bringing light&music shows into it is just going overboard.
 
2013-12-18 11:13:09 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater because people can't get past the mean CEOs being mean to the poor sweet killer whales.


No one seems to have a problem with it for any other animal in the US.  The hundreds of millions of animals slaughtered in the modern industrial trade?  Meaningless issue.  The nearly hundred million pet dogs in the US, most of which - despite being pack animals - are left alone for 10+ hours every single farking day?  Meaningless issue.  Orcas which, from the tourist dollars brought by their potential abuse, help other orcas and help the entire species?  Somehow meaningful issue.

That, I don't understand.
 
2013-12-18 11:14:34 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I think you popped a logic cog there sparky, or forgot to cut n paste something.


Similar to the problem found in Orcas.  An immune-deficiency virus, found in the wild.
 
2013-12-18 11:15:59 PM  

farkinfilipino: no we don't, because someone keeps posting dumb rhetorical questions without actually answering them ;)


You're admitting you know it was rhetorical - which means you know what the answer was.  Also, before your post I had given explicit citations.
 
2013-12-18 11:19:04 PM  

IamAwake: Dwight_Yeast: I think you popped a logic cog there sparky, or forgot to cut n paste something.

Similar to the problem found in Orcas.  An immune-deficiency virus, found in the wild.


Domesticated canines are suffering from an auto-immune virus found in the wild?  Really?  What is it called?

/again, logic, popped cog
 
2013-12-18 11:21:38 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Good to know someone's getting paid.


Oh yeah, because I'm definitely on the payroll of Seaworld.  Couldn't be anything else.
 
2013-12-18 11:22:44 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: IamAwake: Dwight_Yeast: I think you popped a logic cog there sparky, or forgot to cut n paste something.

Similar to the problem found in Orcas.  An immune-deficiency virus, found in the wild.

Domesticated canines are suffering from an auto-immune virus found in the wild?  Really?  What is it called?

/again, logic, popped cog


No, there is no logic problem.  I said the Koalas had the problem, not dogs.  You're selectively quoting text.  Unfortunately for you, everyone else can see the text above in the thread.
 
2013-12-18 11:35:20 PM  

Rent Party: I just watched Blackfish last night.   Now I feel bad for going to SeaWorld San Diego 20 years ago.


Ditto. Parents took me to the one in Aurora every year of my childhood. Now I feel awful.
 
2013-12-18 11:35:37 PM  

IamAwake: Gyrfalcon: I'd hate to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater because people can't get past the mean CEOs being mean to the poor sweet killer whales.

No one seems to have a problem with it for any other animal in the US.  The hundreds of millions of animals slaughtered in the modern industrial trade?  Meaningless issue.  The nearly hundred million pet dogs in the US, most of which - despite being pack animals - are left alone for 10+ hours every single farking day?  Meaningless issue.  Orcas which, from the tourist dollars brought by their potential abuse, help other orcas and help the entire species?  Somehow meaningful issue.

That, I don't understand.


*shrug*

You can see it here on Fark, in a microcosm. Orcas are highly intelligent and unique animals. That there might possibly be a benefit to their mistreatment which would warrant closer scrutiny of the issue is simply more than most people can handle--thus we get the usual binary thinking ORCAS: GOOD! SEAWORLD: BAD! which is about all 85% of the American public can handle. It is bad to mistreat dolphins; Sea World is mistreating dolphins; therefore, Sea World is bad and must be excoriated and ideally shut down across the board.

The idea that perhaps there is more than one issue here, and more than one alternative--such as leaving Sea World intact and just closing down the dolphin shows--does not lend itself to binary thinking, so you don't see a lot of it online. Sometimes here on Fark, but rarely, and certainly nowhere else.
 
2013-12-18 11:38:48 PM  
PS - anyone who wants to pretend to be concerned about the welfare of Orcas, I challenge them to compare their percentage of income given to animal rights organizations and wildlife conservation research, compared to mine.  Mine is at ~40% - you want to pretend to care about their plight?  You want to pretend that Blackfish affected you?  Pitch in 1/10 as much, percentage-wise, of your income to their care as I have.  I haven't given $1 to the dancing, but I've given lots to research.

Anyone up to the challenge?  No one responded to my challenge to compare to St Leger's work, after all.  Anyone who does marine mammal research knows that name, and she's a Seaworld employee.  I've given links to published papers - so, who's all talk?

Is the drama, falsified information coming from TMZ and the like, or from research scientists who have dedicate their lives to helping the animals?  Seems like the answer should be pretty obvious to me, but hey - apparently I'm being paid to say all this.
 
2013-12-18 11:40:32 PM  

IamAwake: No, there is no logic problem. I said the Koalas had the problem, not dogs. You're selectively quoting text. Unfortunately for you, everyone else can see the text above in the thread.


At best it was completely shiatty paragraph formating and writing.  You jumped from one subject to another without transition, which makes it look like you're copying from a script.

IamAwake: Dwight_Yeast: Good to know someone's getting paid.

Oh yeah, because I'm definitely on the payroll of Seaworld.  Couldn't be anything else.


I suppose you could just be an idiot, but I prefer you're getting paid for your dreck; it makes it easier for me to sleep at night.
 
2013-12-18 11:49:27 PM  

Gyrfalcon: That there might possibly be a benefit to their mistreatment which would warrant closer scrutiny of the issue is simply more than most people can handle


Dogs are more intelligent than people get them credit for, and leaving them alone for 10+ hours a day is worse for them than most people realize.  The plight of Orcas at Seaworld might also not be anywhere near as bad - or even "bad" at all, depending on behaviour research - as you might think.  That people are suddenly shifting their opinions so dramatically based on a gossip/rumor site(TMZ) is...beyond me.  The people that frequent that site are horrible to animals.  Yes, Orcas are intelligent.  That I know everyone involved in the first research to find - and create a screen for - a virus in the entire phylogenetic family means that yes, I'm very familiar with the pains, processes, and etc involved.  Dogs like to play, and are social - Orcas and dolphins (ask any surfer in SoCal...) do too.  I can't say whether Seaworld does more harm than good, but I can say that compared to the way most westerners treat animals - they're angels.
 
2013-12-18 11:59:52 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: At best it was completely shiatty paragraph formating and writing. You jumped from one subject to another without transition, which makes it look like you're copying from a script.


I brought up two points, then expanded in the order I brought them up.  This is pretty much the exact method that is taught in all formal writing classes.  Further, in your initial retort, these lines followed in exact order - first mine, then yours as you were quoting mine.

> We're likely to not have Koalas in the wild in none to many years - similar reason.

> I think you popped a logic cog there sparky, or forgot to cut n paste something.

> Similar to the problem found in Orcas.  An immune-deficiency virus, found in the wild.

To that, you replied - line per line, since you can't follow multiple subjects at once:

> Similar to the problem found in Orcas.  An immune-deficiency virus, found in the wild.

>
Domesticated canines are suffering from an auto-immune virus found in the wild?  Really?  What is it called?

But again, everyone can scroll up.  Troll all you want and yeah, I'm biting, but only because I actually care - versus being in it just for the attention or whatever you're in it for.  What  wouldthat be, anyway - a white-knight for TMZ/CNN?
 
2013-12-19 12:02:17 AM  
Meh, I'll wait to go until Phoenix Wright has to defend the Orca in court.


/So happy to play phoenix again
 
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