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(Marketwatch)   After China questions Bitcoin's status as legal currency, investors feel hungry to dump their coins   (marketwatch.com) divider line 33
    More: Followup, People's Bank of China, virtual currency, coins, digital currency, investors, currency  
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1104 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Dec 2013 at 8:05 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-18 08:15:59 AM
See, conservatives? Only commies are against bitcoin! Buy mine today!

/haz no bitcoins
//nor any exceptional desire to have any
///but can I interest you in tulip bulb futures?
 
2013-12-18 08:20:05 AM
But, dammit, we want our own money!
 
2013-12-18 08:25:31 AM
With the massive Bitcoin mines in China, I'm certain this is temporary.  Suppress the price, buy up the currency, restore confidence, profit on a massive scale.
 
2013-12-18 08:39:28 AM
i.telegraph.co.uk
 
2013-12-18 08:44:49 AM

Pardon Me Sultan: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]


Not yet, but soon

Unless bitcoin is like one of those bubble wands that generates hundred of tiny bubbles at once.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

Actually, I wonder if there is a theory that corresponds to this....
 
2013-12-18 08:48:00 AM
They don't want Bitcoin to threaten the official currency of China, WoW Gold.
 
2013-12-18 08:48:51 AM
"but has hit a session low of around $480 so far, more than half of the $1,000 level it last saw around Dec. 11 "

Arithmetic does not work that way.
 
2013-12-18 08:51:28 AM
Based on this it appears the value of bitcoins was based on two utilities:

1. The ability to buy illegal goods without the sale getting traced back to you.
2. The ability to transfer money in/out of China without having to go through official channels
 
2013-12-18 09:21:17 AM

AngryDragon: With the massive Bitcoin mines in China, I'm certain this is temporary.  Suppress the price, buy up the currency, restore confidence, profit on a massive scale.


Target Builder: Based on this it appears the value of bitcoins was based on two utilities:

1. The ability to buy illegal goods without the sale getting traced back to you.
2. The ability to transfer money in/out of China without having to go through official channels


I don't think this is temporary and, yeah, exactly...

The purpose of a cryptocurrency is entirely for the consumer of the currency itself. Leaving off any particular issues with BitCoin specifically (and there are plenty), you would have to wonder why any government would allow for them. They're practically unregulated methods to avoid taxes, and of - I think - almost equal importance, a method to avoid CTRs and other legal schema.

At the end of the day I think its the latter that will either see BitCoins made illegal or simply unfeasible. Let's say you have $10,000 dollars of BitCoins and want to buy something that costs $10,000 - any of  a number of items which require the filing of a Cash Transaction Report or similar document. If you're using the cryptocurrency to end around the reporting requirement, well, that's already illegal - even if you use regular currency.

To be fair most of the legality jumps in at the smaller dollar amounts, but what about declaring income based on accepting the BitCoins? If the merchant can simply.... do that.... you have a 1 (I guess 2) step process for money laundering. Step 1, Accept BitCoin. Step 2, Profit. Business A wants to launder money. They have $50,000 in drug money. Normally they would have to go through extraordinary measures to clean that money. But if they have any control over a business which accepts BitCoin they can simply use the ethical quagmire as cover. Purchase the Cryptocurrency, transfer it between points, have its end point be at the Business.... and done.

There's a million other ways to use BitCoins to make avoiding the various bank secrecy acts and money laundering statutes even easier than with conventional currency.

So... why allow them? From the Governments point of view - and this is ANY government mind you, from national to municipal - why is any of that a good thing? You're either supporting the Tulip trade or you're just making your grey and black markets even easier to navigate. Neither seems particularly compelling.

I dunno, I don't have BitCoins and I'm not particularly adamant about their use one way or the other, but if I was in government I'd have every reason to try and combat them.
 
2013-12-18 09:49:42 AM
The value of Bitcoins never falls.  It's not just a piece of paper!
 
2013-12-18 09:50:46 AM
If you have Bitcoins can you actually convert them to US$ or can you only buy goods that accept Bitcoin as payment?
 
2013-12-18 10:13:42 AM

Oliver Twisted: If you have Bitcoins can you actually convert them to US$ or can you only buy goods that accept Bitcoin as payment?


Yes, people sell or trade their Bitcoins for cash all the time.

/not a BItcoiner
 
2013-12-18 10:58:58 AM

walktoanarcade: Oliver Twisted: If you have Bitcoins can you actually convert them to US$ or can you only buy goods that accept Bitcoin as payment?

Yes, people sell or trade their Bitcoins for cash all the time.

/not a BItcoiner


Right, but it's a largely unregulated market, if not entirely unregulated. I don't really know, it's never come up on any professional level for me.

Still and all, how bitcoin is different from any other unregulated market is pretty much academic. You could call each bitcoin a piece of art, what with art being (almost) completely unregulated as well. Then people can buy and sell them just as they are now. I think that might be more honest, in the end. Something about Tulips and the dutch..

If BitCoin makes it to 2015, as a legit thing, I'll be pretty surprised. If it's not banned outright, the world over, and used (if at all) exclusively for illicit dealings by the end of the decade I'd be absolutely shocked.

Whats more likely than both is some private company comes up with a better and more accessible cryptocurrency. I mean, any company that really wants to could - theoretically - act as its own fed. Printing its money, having reserves, tie those to bonds and other things and you basically have another currency. Except it might be completely illegal. Or Canadian Tire.

I really don't know.
 
2013-12-18 12:10:49 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-18 12:38:41 PM

ThatDarkFellow: [i.imgur.com image 768x1024]


That person isn't mining Bitcoins.  They're probably going after Litecoins.

Bitcoins require the computation of a SHA256 hash.  These days, customized ASICs are the fastest and most power efficient way to mine them.  You can use GPUs and CPUs, but it isn't cost effective because you're paying more in electricity to run the GPU and CPU than the coins are worth.

Meanwhile, Litecoins require the computation of an Scrypt hash.  Scrypt is based upon Salsa20, and its implementation is more computationally complex and much, much more memory intensive.  Right now, recent AMD based GPUs are the fastest and most power efficient way to mine them, with the Radeon HD 7950 and 280X being the best power:speed ratio.  Nobody has released an ASIC for mining Scrypt because Scrypt crunching was designed to be difficult to implement in an ASIC.
 
2013-12-18 12:44:42 PM

Dinjiin: ThatDarkFellow: [i.imgur.com image 768x1024]

That person isn't mining Bitcoins.  They're probably going after Litecoins.

Bitcoins require the computation of a SHA256 hash.  These days, customized ASICs are the fastest and most power efficient way to mine them.  You can use GPUs and CPUs, but it isn't cost effective because you're paying more in electricity to run the GPU and CPU than the coins are worth.

Meanwhile, Litecoins require the computation of an Scrypt hash.  Scrypt is based upon Salsa20, and its implementation is more computationally complex and much, much more memory intensive.  Right now, recent AMD based GPUs are the fastest and most power efficient way to mine them, with the Radeon HD 7950 and 280X being the best power:speed ratio.  Nobody has released an ASIC for mining Scrypt because Scrypt crunching was designed to be difficult to implement in an ASIC.


Okay, great paragraph. Now tell me, what is LiteCoin's value based on?
 
2013-12-18 01:02:01 PM

ThatDarkFellow: Now tell me, what is LiteCoin's value based on?


Same as BitCoins: Hopes, dreams, and anti-government angst.
 
2013-12-18 01:02:41 PM

balthan: ThatDarkFellow: Now tell me, what is LiteCoin's value based on?

Same as BitCoins: Hopes, dreams, and anti-government angst.


It was confidence in BitCoins so...yes I guess?
 
2013-12-18 01:25:51 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-18 01:26:16 PM
ThatDarkFellow: Now tell me, what is LiteCoin's value based on?

balthan: Same as BitCoins: Hopes, dreams, and anti-government angst.

ThatDarkFellow: It was confidence in BitCoins so...yes I guess?

Indirectly, yes.  The driving force behind the recent surge in Bitcoin prices was also behind the surge in other crypto currency prices.  Now that Bitcoin is sliding, prices for Litecoin, Feathercoin and other crypto-currencies are sliding as well.

A huge cause for the recent surge in price was due to Chinese investment.  There are a number of barriers that make foreign investment for Chinese nationals at home very difficult.  The crypto-currencies were a way for them to get around those barriers.  Obviously, their government is now clamping down on that.

Now that the bubble is deflating, the days of easy mining are going away.  It can still be profitable, but you now have to be smart about it and treat it as any other currency trading market.
 
2013-12-18 02:24:50 PM
This is why in Doge I Trust.
 
2013-12-18 03:03:05 PM

Oliver Twisted: If you have Bitcoins can you actually convert them to US$ or can you only buy goods that accept Bitcoin as payment?


You can convert them directly into Canadian dollars at an ATM in a Vancouver coffee shop. You walk up, select the amount you want to take out, and it prints a QR-code receipt with the payment details. After you have transferred the requested BTC amount to that address, you scan the receipt into the ATM and receive your cash.
 
2013-12-18 03:31:01 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait.

Hold on.

You're telling me a form of currency proposed in a paper written by a guy that doesn't even exist might not be the most stable or wise investment I could have made?
 
2013-12-18 03:48:42 PM
Just wanted to pop in and mention that the top-rated post in /r/bitcoin right now is the suicide prevention hotline.
 
2013-12-18 04:38:03 PM

Researcher: walktoanarcade: Oliver Twisted: If you have Bitcoins can you actually convert them to US$ or can you only buy goods that accept Bitcoin as payment?

Yes, people sell or trade their Bitcoins for cash all the time.

/not a BItcoiner

Right, but it's a largely unregulated market, if not entirely unregulated. I don't really know, it's never come up on any professional level for me.

Still and all, how bitcoin is different from any other unregulated market is pretty much academic. You could call each bitcoin a piece of art, what with art being (almost) completely unregulated as well. Then people can buy and sell them just as they are now. I think that might be more honest, in the end. Something about Tulips and the dutch..

If BitCoin makes it to 2015, as a legit thing, I'll be pretty surprised. If it's not banned outright, the world over, and used (if at all) exclusively for illicit dealings by the end of the decade I'd be absolutely shocked.

Whats more likely than both is some private company comes up with a better and more accessible cryptocurrency. I mean, any company that really wants to could - theoretically - act as its own fed. Printing its money, having reserves, tie those to bonds and other things and you basically have another currency. Except it might be completely illegal. Or Canadian Tire.

I really don't know.


I don't know either, but I do know that Bitcoins went from around 1100 apiece yesterday to roughly 500 now. Ouchie. I almost feel sorry for the dopes that built huge rigs and didn't dump their coins when they were getting well into the ridiculous and preposterous range.  As in, worth more than gold or weed? Are you kidding?

The multi-verse of feds you mention is disconcerting in that, well...my interests are in dollars like most, plus the notion that a fragile American economy could co-exist with legions of House-divided competition seems problematic at best.
 
2013-12-18 05:15:37 PM

walktoanarcade: As in, worth more than gold or weed? Are you kidding?


Well, it depends how much gold or weed you're talking about. One "bitcoin" was briefly worth more than a 1 oz gold coin, but still much less than the 400 oz gold bars which are the standard for international commerce. And there aren't really any "coins" in the Bitcoin system, just numbers representing account balances. You can shift the decimal point by 3 places and use mBTC ("milli-") as your basic unit if you prefer. Those are worth only $0.58.

p.s. If you think that $1000 per BTC is ridiculous, you'll get a kick out of Cameron Winklevoss's recent prediction.
 
2013-12-18 07:35:55 PM
So...is there any easy way to bet against Bitcoin (like there is with gold)?
 
2013-12-18 07:36:28 PM
"This would be pretty tragic if you could die from jumping out the window of your mom's basement."

/
The funniest comment I've read this year on Reddit
 
2013-12-18 07:49:26 PM

carnifex2005: "This would be pretty tragic if you could die from jumping out the window of your mom's basement."

/The funniest comment I've read this year on Reddit


That was a good one.
 
2013-12-18 08:21:28 PM
Good time to buy, then.
 
2013-12-19 12:45:49 PM
Lots of people seem to forget the MAJOR players that are investing and holding. This is a long term game. Smart people will be buying now.
I don't give a flying fark what the naysayers think.
 
2013-12-19 03:44:15 PM

DMDmarty: Lots of people seem to forget the MAJOR players that are investing and holding. This is a long term game. Smart people will be buying now.
I don't give a flying fark what the naysayers think.


Last line of your Fark profile: "Use your noodle, don't believe the hype."  Perhaps it's time for an update.
 
2013-12-19 06:24:30 PM

valkore: DMDmarty: Lots of people seem to forget the MAJOR players that are investing and holding. This is a long term game. Smart people will be buying now.
I don't give a flying fark what the naysayers think.

Last line of your Fark profile: "Use your noodle, don't believe the hype."  Perhaps it's time for an update.


LOL
 
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