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(Fox News)   Philadelphia Bishop removes five priests for sex abuse, hopes to be down to three at a time by next year   (foxnews.com) divider line 48
    More: Sad, ministry, sex crimes, allegations, misconduct  
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1577 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2013 at 9:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-17 09:20:06 AM  
FTA:  "boundary violations."

Funny...when non-priests do that, it's called "rape".

Must be a religious thing.

/new pope's got his work cut out for him
 
2013-12-17 09:21:01 AM  
Too bad that Chaput lands there and that's the first thing he has to deal with.

At least he's moving on it, unlike those who grew up with the "Sprit of the Sixties" ... free love! Break your vows! Who am I to judge!
 
2013-12-17 09:21:31 AM  
[eagles joke]

[phillies joke]

[sixers joke]

[flyers joke]

/[excuse about why i'm so lazy]
 
2013-12-17 09:21:44 AM  
I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.
 
2013-12-17 09:24:57 AM  
Did you say ...'down to'? Or 'down on'?
 
2013-12-17 09:26:39 AM  
It's like clearing abandoned houses in Detroit.
 
2013-12-17 09:28:35 AM  

PunGent: FTA:  "boundary violations."

Funny...when non-priests do that, it's called "rape".

Must be a religious thing.

/new pope's got his work cut out for him


What about the District Attorney?  Where is he?

Put these assholes in prison.
 
2013-12-17 09:29:47 AM  

Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.


Yea, they'll rehabilitate themselves.
 
2013-12-17 09:35:27 AM  

Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.


This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.
 
2013-12-17 09:39:48 AM  

Slackfumasta: This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.


Too bad reality doesn't agree with you. But thanks for playing!  Enjoy the plaid skies in your world.
 
2013-12-17 09:41:59 AM  
It boggles my mind that ANY religious topic (especially when it comes to Catholicism) makes headlines these days... the current fascination with Pope Francis for example, is pretty irrelevant.

You know, when this country was founded Catholics were allowed to immigrate here.. and rightly so.  When the Vatican became its own country (thanks to Hitler and Mussolini) maybe we should have revisited that policy since Catholics are now beholding to a foreign head of state (which is considered treasonous according to the constitution).

Just sayin......  It's amazing how much the edicts of a foreign head of state effect our domestic policy (abortion, birth control, etc..), so much so that I find it anti-american.
 
2013-12-17 09:42:34 AM  

Slackfumasta: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.


Hmm... that should get the ball rolling

/7/10
 
2013-12-17 09:44:47 AM  

Slackfumasta: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.


2/10. Gay men fark other gay men, of which there is a fair number in the priesthood, because the robes are FABULOUS! or something.

A pedo priest expresses his sick conception of power in a kid's backside. It doesn't really matter if the kid is male or female, but males are easier for a pedo priest to get at.

The problem is partly celibacy but mostly institutional rot.
 
2013-12-17 09:45:13 AM  

PunGent: FTA:  "boundary violations."

Funny...when non-priests do that, it's called "rape".


Boundary violations could be just about anything, including "inappropriate hugging". No rape. But 9/10, you got me to bite.
 
2013-12-17 09:46:31 AM  
biting is definitely a boundary violation
 
2013-12-17 09:46:35 AM  

dwrash: It boggles my mind that ANY religious topic (especially when it comes to Catholicism) makes headlines these days... the current fascination with Pope Francis for example, is pretty irrelevant.

You know, when this country was founded Catholics were allowed to immigrate here.. and rightly so.  When the Vatican became its own country (thanks to Hitler and Mussolini) maybe we should have revisited that policy since Catholics are now beholding to a foreign head of state (which is considered treasonous according to the constitution).

Just sayin......  It's amazing how much the edicts of a foreign head of state effect our domestic policy (abortion, birth control, etc..), so much so that I find it anti-american.


The dry cleaner called.  He said he finally got the blood stains out of your white robes.
 
2013-12-17 09:47:35 AM  
Is there a joke in the headline? If there is it went right over my head.
 
2013-12-17 09:49:36 AM  

flak attack: dwrash: It boggles my mind that ANY religious topic (especially when it comes to Catholicism) makes headlines these days... the current fascination with Pope Francis for example, is pretty irrelevant.

You know, when this country was founded Catholics were allowed to immigrate here.. and rightly so.  When the Vatican became its own country (thanks to Hitler and Mussolini) maybe we should have revisited that policy since Catholics are now beholding to a foreign head of state (which is considered treasonous according to the constitution).

Just sayin......  It's amazing how much the edicts of a foreign head of state effect our domestic policy (abortion, birth control, etc..), so much so that I find it anti-american.

The dry cleaner called.  He said he finally got the blood stains out of your white robes.


I would never advocate such a thing... but I would make Catholics revoke their allegiance to the Pope or remove their right to vote or serve in government (for obvious reasons).  Our politicians are to serve the people, not the Pope.
 
2013-12-17 09:51:24 AM  

dwrash: flak attack: dwrash: It boggles my mind that ANY religious topic (especially when it comes to Catholicism) makes headlines these days... the current fascination with Pope Francis for example, is pretty irrelevant.

You know, when this country was founded Catholics were allowed to immigrate here.. and rightly so.  When the Vatican became its own country (thanks to Hitler and Mussolini) maybe we should have revisited that policy since Catholics are now beholding to a foreign head of state (which is considered treasonous according to the constitution).

Just sayin......  It's amazing how much the edicts of a foreign head of state effect our domestic policy (abortion, birth control, etc..), so much so that I find it anti-american.

The dry cleaner called.  He said he finally got the blood stains out of your white robes.

I would never advocate such a thing... but I would make Catholics revoke their allegiance to the Pope or remove their right to vote or serve in government (for obvious reasons).  Our politicians are to serve the people, not the Pope.


4/10

You can't really, FOR REALS believe the shiat you splattered in this thread.

/I hope not at least
 
2013-12-17 09:51:36 AM  

dwrash: It boggles my mind that ANY religious topic (especially when it comes to Catholicism) makes headlines these days... the current fascination with Pope Francis for example, is pretty irrelevant.

You know, when this country was founded Catholics were allowed to immigrate here.. and rightly so.  When the Vatican became its own country (thanks to Hitler and Mussolini) maybe we should have revisited that policy since Catholics are now beholding to a foreign head of state (which is considered treasonous according to the constitution).

Just sayin......  It's amazing how much the edicts of a foreign head of state effect our domestic policy (abortion, birth control, etc..), so much so that I find it anti-american.


Well, you're going to LOVE the U.S. relationship with Israel, then: You got theocracy in my democracy!
 
2013-12-17 09:55:40 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
I'm still honoring my resolution to replace the RCC with Penn State in these matters.
 
2013-12-17 09:56:53 AM  

Valiente: dwrash: It boggles my mind that ANY religious topic (especially when it comes to Catholicism) makes headlines these days... the current fascination with Pope Francis for example, is pretty irrelevant.

You know, when this country was founded Catholics were allowed to immigrate here.. and rightly so.  When the Vatican became its own country (thanks to Hitler and Mussolini) maybe we should have revisited that policy since Catholics are now beholding to a foreign head of state (which is considered treasonous according to the constitution).

Just sayin......  It's amazing how much the edicts of a foreign head of state effect our domestic policy (abortion, birth control, etc..), so much so that I find it anti-american.

Well, you're going to LOVE the U.S. relationship with Israel, then: You got theocracy in my democracy!


Nope.. don't approve of that relationship at all.
 
2013-12-17 10:00:35 AM  

Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.


WHY is it so systemic in the church? That's what I want to know.

I'm assuming it's a combination of guilt over homosexuality combined with religious belief and the suppression of all sexual urges making these people crazy, but pedophilia is so farking sick and twisted.  Were they pedophiles already?  Did they go into the priesthood with the hope that God would heal them of their sickness? Did they (this is far worse) go in because they knew what they could get away with? 

And why is it so prevalent in Catholicism, specifically, and not such a problem in other religions?
 
2013-12-17 10:09:18 AM  

serpent_sky: and not such a problem in other religions?



It's a problem, just  not as well publicized.

Plus the RCC is a huge monolithic bureaucracy.  Most other religions are localized to the local preacher, so you don't have the same hierarchy involved in a cover up. If a UCC pastor diddles a little boy, he gets fired, moves to another state, and convinces another bunch of suckers to hire him.  In the RCC, he's employed by the church, and they have extensive files on just how abusive he is. And, instead of firing him and calling the cops, they move him to another parish, or to a small town in Alaska////
 
2013-12-17 10:12:39 AM  

serpent_sky: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

WHY is it so systemic in the church? That's what I want to know.

I'm assuming it's a combination of guilt over homosexuality combined with religious belief and the suppression of all sexual urges making these people crazy, but pedophilia is so farking sick and twisted.  Were they pedophiles already?  Did they go into the priesthood with the hope that God would heal them of their sickness? Did they (this is far worse) go in because they knew what they could get away with? 

And why is it so prevalent in Catholicism, specifically, and not such a problem in other religions?


The answer is probably yes.
 
2013-12-17 10:14:00 AM  
Damned bishops, always can't give you a straight answer, they have to go off diagonally on everything.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-17 10:22:38 AM  

mainstreet62: Damned bishops, always can't give you a straight answer, they have to go off diagonally on everything.


It just makes you want to bop them with your hand.
 
2013-12-17 10:35:34 AM  
OH wait, did he report them to the police? NO?

FFS YOU ASSHATS! YOU ARE STILL DOING IT WRONG!

Turn the evidence over to the DA and kick the rapists out of the church. FOREVER.
TADA
 
2013-12-17 10:39:54 AM  

Slackfumasta: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.


I disagree it has anything to do with gay men per se, but the church itself. Instead, we should imprison the parents of all children abused by the church, and put their children in safer foster home environments. Ones in which the people responsible for them will be less likely put them in a situation in which they will most likely be raped and molested.
 
2013-12-17 10:42:37 AM  

Slackfumasta: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.


fc09.deviantart.net
 
2013-12-17 10:54:26 AM  

You Cant Explain That: I disagree it has anything to do with gay men per se, but the church itself. Instead, we should imprison the parents of all children abused by the church, and put their children in safer foster home environments. Ones in which the people responsible for them will be less likely put them in a situation in which they will most likely be raped and molested.


I do question the parents who are okay with their kids being alone with priests. I suppose if you are of faith, you want to believe that these are men of God, doing God's work, and that they wouldn't do something so horrible to your kid.  But at the same time, it's far, far too common and if I had a kid, I would never allow my kid to be alone for any amount of time with a priest.

It reminds me of the whole Michael Jackson thing, actually.  I kept wondering what the hell was wrong with the parents who let their kids sleep over and sleep in the same bed as the guy. What the hell was normal or right about that to begin with?
 
2013-12-17 11:08:57 AM  

namatad: OH wait, did he report them to the police? NO?

FFS YOU ASSHATS! YOU ARE STILL DOING IT WRONG!

Turn the evidence over to the DA and kick the rapists out of the church. FOREVER.
TADA


And this only happens because the consider the church Hierarchy to be more to be more important than the civil government.. they do with the Pope says instead of the law.  I find this to be fundamentally flawed and against the spirit of our constitution.
 
2013-12-17 11:10:51 AM  

dwrash: namatad: OH wait, did he report them to the police? NO?

FFS YOU ASSHATS! YOU ARE STILL DOING IT WRONG!

Turn the evidence over to the DA and kick the rapists out of the church. FOREVER.
TADA

And this only happens because the consider the church Hierarchy to be more to be more important than the civil government.. they do with the Pope says instead of the law.  I find this to be fundamentally flawed and against the spirit of our constitution.


Holy crap my typing sucks with this new keyboard.
 
2013-12-17 11:17:39 AM  

dwrash: namatad: OH wait, did he report them to the police? NO?

FFS YOU ASSHATS! YOU ARE STILL DOING IT WRONG!

Turn the evidence over to the DA and kick the rapists out of the church. FOREVER.
TADA

And this only happens because the consider the church Hierarchy to be more to be more important than the civil government.. they do with the Pope says instead of the law.  I find this to be fundamentally flawed and against the spirit of our constitution.


In fairness, we don't know what they did was criminal. It actually says that they could have possibly simply made inappropriate comments.  It also says one is awaiting trial for sexually assaulting a boy, which means he was handed off to the police - and the church has not actually dealt with that one yet.  He was sent off to the legal system first.

The headline (hey, welcome to Fark) is actually misleading.  FTA: "In addition to Chapman, two of the other four priests were removed for violating "the standards of ministerial behavior." Both men faced sexual misconduct allegations that the board said it could not substantiate. The other two were deemed to have acted in violation of church standards. The Inquirer reported that such misconduct can range from making inappropriate comments to so-called "boundary violations." "

Not that I am white-knighting the Catholic church, and all the awful things they have allowed over the years, but that's the point. These guys, it seems, weren't part of that problem.  Which is a good thing, really. And if the Catholic church is really cleaning house, especially in light of the new Pope, well, that is also a good thing.  I'm certainly not going to go running back to the church, but less rape is always a good thing.
 
2013-12-17 11:25:29 AM  

serpent_sky: dwrash: namatad: OH wait, did he report them to the police? NO?

FFS YOU ASSHATS! YOU ARE STILL DOING IT WRONG!

Turn the evidence over to the DA and kick the rapists out of the church. FOREVER.
TADA

And this only happens because the consider the church Hierarchy to be more to be more important than the civil government.. they do with the Pope says instead of the law.  I find this to be fundamentally flawed and against the spirit of our constitution.

In fairness, we don't know what they did was criminal. It actually says that they could have possibly simply made inappropriate comments.  It also says one is awaiting trial for sexually assaulting a boy, which means he was handed off to the police - and the church has not actually dealt with that one yet.  He was sent off to the legal system first.

The headline (hey, welcome to Fark) is actually misleading.  FTA: "In addition to Chapman, two of the other four priests were removed for violating "the standards of ministerial behavior." Both men faced sexual misconduct allegations that the board said it could not substantiate. The other two were deemed to have acted in violation of church standards. The Inquirer reported that such misconduct can range from making inappropriate comments to so-called "boundary violations." "

Not that I am white-knighting the Catholic church, and all the awful things they have allowed over the years, but that's the point. These guys, it seems, weren't part of that problem.  Which is a good thing, really. And if the Catholic church is really cleaning house, especially in light of the new Pope, well, that is also a good thing.  I'm certainly not going to go running back to the church, but less rape is always a good thing.


I also think you need to take into account the recent convictions in the Philadelphia Diocese where a bishop was sent to jail for covering up abuse.  You cannot believe anything the diocese has to say.
 
2013-12-17 11:31:17 AM  
So this season when you are in church be sure to donate nicely as there will be some whopper civil suits coming in 2014. Isn't great to think that your penance to god goes to pay off rape victims.
 
2013-12-17 11:32:39 AM  

serpent_sky: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

WHY is it so systemic in the church? That's what I want to know.

I'm assuming it's a combination of guilt over homosexuality combined with religious belief and the suppression of all sexual urges making these people crazy, but pedophilia is so farking sick and twisted.  Were they pedophiles already?  Did they go into the priesthood with the hope that God would heal them of their sickness? Did they (this is far worse) go in because they knew what they could get away with?

And why is it so prevalent in Catholicism, specifically, and not such a problem in other religions?


Abusers go where there are vulnerable targets to abuse.  They select children who are not going to feel able to report them, maybe even children who have been neglected or abused before, and groom them to feel dependent on the abuser first.

The Church has historically run a large number of institutions for children on the margins of society - the very sorts of children who have no advocate outside that institution (i.e., if they have parents who give a damn, they're probably somehow disreputable) and will be least empowered to complain about an authority figure.

But even in a parish setting, a priest is privvy to much more information to help screen and take advantage of vulnerable people than the average parishioner (except perhaps the local shrinks).  Add to that inherent attraction of the priesthood to abusers a severe shortage of priests, leading perhaps to lax screening of candidates for the priesthood, and you have a real systemic problem.

At least, that has always been my personal theory for why there have been so many, particularly among the older cohort of priests who entered back when these institutions were more prevalent and came under less scrutiny.  Nowadays we have learned that abuse is the norm at these places unless actively prevented.
 
2013-12-17 11:34:29 AM  

GreetingsEarthling: PunGent: FTA:  "boundary violations."

Funny...when non-priests do that, it's called "rape".

Boundary violations could be just about anything, including "inappropriate hugging". No rape. But 9/10, you got me to bite.


Did you read the article?

" the Rev. Andrew McCormick --  is awaiting trial on charges of sexually assaulting a 10-year-old altar boy"

Doesn't sound like gotdamn "hugging" to me.

But then, I'm not a farking apologist for these assholes.
 
2013-12-17 11:41:37 AM  

serpent_sky: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

WHY is it so systemic in the church? That's what I want to know.

I'm assuming it's a combination of guilt over homosexuality combined with religious belief and the suppression of all sexual urges making these people crazy, but pedophilia is so farking sick and twisted.  Were they pedophiles already?  Did they go into the priesthood with the hope that God would heal them of their sickness? Did they (this is far worse) go in because they knew what they could get away with?

And why is it so prevalent in Catholicism, specifically, and not such a problem in other religions?


It's a top-down organization.  Strict hierarchy.  You're deliberately exposing children to an authoritarian system, where you're SUPPOSED to follow instructions from the male with the biggest hat, under penalty of eternal burning.

Being burned, even by a match, was about the worst thing I could think of as a kid, so, it's not surprising some of them are susceptible to a priest saying "rub my dick, or go to hell forever".
 
2013-12-17 11:42:19 AM  

Slackfumasta: Pangea: I am so sick of hearing about these abuses. It boggles my mind that so many men do these things. At least they're purging the perpetrators finally. It reflects much more positively on the institution than what they used to do.

This is why they shouldn't allow gay men into the priesthood - very high chance of this sort of thing happening.


Last numbers I saw, about 19% of the Catholic church victims were female.

Carry on.
 
2013-12-17 11:45:35 AM  

dwrash: I also think you need to take into account the recent convictions in the Philadelphia Diocese where a bishop was sent to jail for covering up abuse. You cannot believe anything the diocese has to say.


I'd like to think that maybe that was part of a wake-up call for them? It turns out that there are very few people who are okay with the idea of children being raped and it has, not shockingly, hurt the Catholic church a lot.  The first thing a lot of people think when they hear the word "Priest" is "child molester" -- and that's a huge problem, considering child molesters are probably as low as you can go on the societal totem pole.

I am not sure why it took them so long to realize what a problem this is, but it does seem like they're finally trying to clean it up as opposed to sweeping it under the rug.  One can hope, anyway.
 
2013-12-17 12:25:18 PM  

medius: [eagles joke]

People would still get mad if we throw snowballs at them
 
[phillies are a joke]

[sixers joke]
They like the youth of their starting line up

[flyers joke]They still think its 1975 and can get away with being bullies

/[excuse about why i'm so lazy]
/yw
 
2013-12-17 01:00:12 PM  

Chach: Too bad that Chaput lands there and that's the first thing he has to deal with.

At least he's moving on it, unlike those who grew up with the "Sprit of the Sixties" ... free love! Break your vows! Who am I to judge!


This.  Really, abuse is more like murder than say theft.  You can't give a kid his life back no matter how hard you try.  Hopefully as a certain group of bishops dies/ retires the new ones will start behaving more like this.

Also, everyoneinvolved in Parish work has to take a sex abuse prevention class.  Everyone from the priest right down to the ushers at the door.  Most people also have to be fingerprinted, and there are background checks for people working with kids.  It's all a pain in the ass, but they are seriously not farking around these days.

/knows a priest who made a pass at a 17yr old girl a few years back
//they handed him over to the District Attorney immediately
 
2013-12-17 02:01:41 PM  

Valiente: The problem is partly celibacy but mostly institutional rot.


I'd say the celibacy thing is the real problem. (Tho the corruption is there, of course.) If you demand that the humans in your organization repress basic human urges, you're going to have ongoing trouble attracting non-broken humans. Let the freaking priests get married.
 
2013-12-17 02:10:10 PM  

geoduck42: Valiente: The problem is partly celibacy but mostly institutional rot.

I'd say the celibacy thing is the real problem. (Tho the corruption is there, of course.) If you demand that the humans in your organization repress basic human urges, you're going to have ongoing trouble attracting non-broken humans. Let the freaking priests get married.


Agreed.. and the historical reason to prevent them from marrying is not an issue in most countries in the world (inheritance).

At the end of the day, celibacy is a pre-christian Roman pagan custom and should be viewed/treated as such.. everyone should be able to serve based on their gifts/talents.  Not because they take a vow (which scripture tells Christians not to do).. which is once again a pre-christian pagan custom (sacramentalism - which was predominate in the Roman army).
 
2013-12-17 02:21:52 PM  

geoduck42: Valiente: The problem is partly celibacy but mostly institutional rot.

I'd say the celibacy thing is the real problem. (Tho the corruption is there, of course.) If you demand that the humans in your organization repress basic human urges, you're going to have ongoing trouble attracting non-broken humans. Let the freaking priests get married.


I've had some LONG dry spells in my life.  I was practically undatable until somewhere in my 30s.  And let me tell ya, I've never been tempted to hook up with an 8 year old.  More importantly, if I HAD done so in my workplace as part of my job, my boss would have called in the cope, the National Guard, Parents Against Child Abuse and the United States Marine Corps.  The concealment is far and away the issue here.
 
2013-12-17 02:36:09 PM  

fireclown: I've had some LONG dry spells in my life. I was practically undatable until somewhere in my 30s. And let me tell ya, I've never been tempted to hook up with an 8 year old. More importantly, if I HAD done so in my workplace as part of my job, my boss would have called in the cope, the National Guard, Parents Against Child Abuse and the United States Marine Corps. The concealment is far and away the issue here.


That's true. LOTS of people don't get laid regularly and they do not go molesting kids as a result. The church is attracting pedophiles, plain and simple.  Maybe some are trying to suppress their urges, which is respectable in theory, until they can't.  And I'm sure some are making a choice to enter the clergy so they can easily find prey. 

So what do you do, though? And not even ONLY in the church, what do you do about pedophiles? We can all agree that it's a horrible, horrible thing, but is it so much a choice as an affliction? My brain is really bothered by either option. One has people knowingly and willingly choosing to rape children.  The other has them doing it because they were born that way and can't help themselves. Or it's a combination of both.   I am not comfortable with any of the options, as they all present a million problems with almost no solutions.
 
2013-12-17 08:07:13 PM  
Hey, at least he removed them.

/at least I hope he did and that he didn't send them to another parish or something.
 
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