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(The New Republic)   You know, we're tired of going on and on about how the GOP are eating their young and are on the verge of a thousand year darkness within the party...let's talk about the Democrats having their own "terrible schism" within their party for once   (newrepublic.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, GOP, Democrats, Sheila Bair, Bill de Blasio, Gary Gensler, racial minorities, Big Ag, Matt Bennett  
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1328 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Dec 2013 at 9:26 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-17 10:25:13 AM  

Gulper Eel: When RFK Jr. says it...(sigh, swoon) let us all ponder once again the tragic majesty and noble legacy of Camelot.


Survey says he got put through the ringer for that one, same as everybody else.  You could get a job in autistic Kennedy porn though.
 
2013-12-17 10:28:06 AM  

Guuberre: Republican schism:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x213]

Democratic schism:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]

Looks just as bad to me....


cdn.newsday.com

"You knocked over President Backyard."
 
2013-12-17 10:32:10 AM  

A Cave Geek: Touchy, aren't we this morning?


Fark it. I'm done. You guys want to falsely claim that I'm saying the split in the Democratic party that's forming is as bad as the Teatards, then make the claim. I'm tired this crap. There's a shift in the party as to where to go from here. Who know who comes out as the front of the party, but there is a shift going on.
 
2013-12-17 10:34:05 AM  

somedude210: A Cave Geek: The deflection attempts are getting rather blatant...aren't they?

Oh for fark's sake. WHAT DEFLECTION? Christ almighty, I'm agreeing with you retards that this isn't a goddamn schism in the same vein as the TeaTards trying to take control of the GOP. It's not even within the same dimension. I was saying that there is a clear rivalry emerging within the Democratic party between the Clintonian democrats and the actual progressives. To deny that there isn't something brewing as to where to take the party is just being blind to reality. BUT I AM NOT SAYING IT'S THE SAME GODDAMN FARKING THING AS THE TEATARD REBELLION


What do you mean trying? I thought that they had enough votes to block anything that the rest of the GOP wanted to do. And pretty much have been controlling the GOP since they came to power.
Which has worked out perfectly for the dems
 
2013-12-17 10:34:26 AM  

somedude210: To argue that the Democrats actually having a push to move away from the Corporatists and Clintonian democratic ideals for an actual progressive economic policy is a massive change in it's own right


The problem is that when the GOP moved right in the 80's and 90's, the Dems moved right to occupy the vacuum.  Now we've gotten to the point where the GOP is planted firmly in the lunatic fringe, and you simply cannot go any further to the right.  To preserve a two party system, the Dems need to move left again.
 
2013-12-17 10:34:33 AM  

Gulper Eel: Felgraf: Is someone trying to argue that being an "Anti-vaxxer" is a leftist position?

Is Michelle Bachman a leftist now?

When she says it she's rightly derided as crazy. When Jenny McCarthy says it she's blasted as an idiot.

When RFK Jr. says it...(sigh, swoon) let us all ponder once again the tragic majesty and noble legacy of Camelot.


What farking planet do you live on? A simple search demonstrates you're just making this up. He was appropriately shiat all over for it.
 
2013-12-17 10:36:45 AM  

thamike: Survey says he got put through the ringer for that one, same as everybody else.


Put through the wringer by Fark and by Slate, but plenty of others - looking at YOU, Huffington, Rolling Stone, Katie Couric and Salon - have given him free rein to bring the crazy, although six years later Salon at least decided to get a little bit embarrassed about having done so.

He's a crackpot, and the only reason the press gives him space to talk about nuclear power is because Kennedy.
 
2013-12-17 10:39:02 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: The problem is that when the GOP moved right in the 80's and 90's, the Dems moved right to occupy the vacuum. Now we've gotten to the point where the GOP is planted firmly in the lunatic fringe, and you simply cannot go any further to the right. To preserve a two party system, the Dems need to move left again.


Agreed. That and the populace is more left of center at the moment than right of center (as they were in the 90s-early 00s) and there isn't a left of center or even a center-left party (those are two different things, I swear)
 
2013-12-17 10:39:33 AM  
Schisms in the Democratic Party aren't news, they're business as usual.
 
2013-12-17 10:41:53 AM  
the word is foment, not ferment
 
2013-12-17 10:42:36 AM  
"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

-- Will Rogers
 
2013-12-17 10:43:43 AM  

Wendy's Chili: Schisms in the Democratic Party aren't news, they're business as usual.


Pretty much this. I read the headline and immediately thought that they would first need clearly defined sides to have a schism.
 
2013-12-17 10:43:48 AM  

somedude210: Barfmaker: I believe this "terrible schism" is what's called "dialogue" Subby, it's how adults do things.

first off, the headline is tongue-in-cheek at the whole idea that this is on par with the Tea Tards trying to run the GOP. Secondly, the schism is what the article calls it. So fark you.


firedaily.com
 
2013-12-17 10:47:41 AM  

somedude210: A Cave Geek: Touchy, aren't we this morning?

Fark it. I'm done. You guys want to falsely claim that I'm saying the split in the Democratic party that's forming is as bad as the Teatards, then make the claim. I'm tired this crap. There's a shift in the party as to where to go from here. Who know who comes out as the front of the party, but there is a shift going on.


media2.giphy.com

Aw, hey neighbor, don't go away like that. I don't want you mad.
Be neighborly. See that sexy girl in the crazy Easter mask on my right?
You didn't notice her the first time, yeah?  Come on, let's hang.
 
2013-12-17 10:51:05 AM  
When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.
 
2013-12-17 10:58:06 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180]


Oh. I forgot. "Lamestream media is the the pocket of the Liburls". And it's the "Global Warming hoaxsters" who are running everything so they can get rich off grant money.

BSSBSVR
 
2013-12-17 10:58:09 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.


www.astb.se2.bp.blogspot.com

It is known.
 
2013-12-17 11:02:02 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.


When most of the last of the Blue Dogs got swept out in 2010. Jim Matheson still gets the term thrown at him from time to time, but most Democrats are aware that he's doing his best in an extremely difficult district.

Joe Lieberman was the last one where the charge was repeatedly, vociferously, and accurately leveled. Otherwise, the left wing of the Democratic party tries to focus on moral suasion and pressure (having proven that it can collect some scalps in the primaries if it wants to) rather than ostracizing.
 
2013-12-17 11:02:52 AM  
The GOPs greatest hits of this millienium include

Running Sarah Palin to be VP of the most powerful country in the world
W. (he who shall not be named)
47 percent
 
2013-12-17 11:06:56 AM  

Gulper Eel: Why the right wing doesn't have trackers following the crazypants wing of the Democratic party the way Kos and ThinkProgress watch the likes of Bachmann and Gohmert and that farktard Tennessee state legislator whose name escapes me at the moment, I have no idea. Sometimes they'll note when Alan Grayson brings the stupid, but there are dozens of leftist congressmembers who haven't had bullshiat called on them in ages.

Is it that hard to keep track of when somebody like Maxine Waters is running her fool mouth?

Campfield. That's the dipshiat from Tennessee I was thinking of.


Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm
 
2013-12-17 11:07:57 AM  
The democratic party has always argued amongst themselves... it's called "debate". This is why they don't lockstep when they vote, especially in congress, like the republicans do. They think for themselves, and sometimes that causes dissent within the ranks. This is one of their strengths, the ability to have differences of opinion and to vote accordingly.

Their arguments have never causes any of the bullsh*t the republicans and their tea party puppemasters have pulled over the last decade.
 
2013-12-17 11:11:23 AM  
Elizabeth Warren is a start. Liberals have let minority poltiics dominate their message. This has enabled them to enact important changes with regards to gay marriage and other social issues, but let other issues go to the wayside.
 
2013-12-17 11:16:38 AM  
MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

BSSBSVR


archive.rushimg.com
 

Just, stop.
 
2013-12-17 11:17:58 AM  

Fart_Machine: Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm


If they do, they're doing a shiatty job at getting their message out.
 
2013-12-17 11:28:45 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180]


We have Martin Freedman as that shadowy figure?

Or is he just playing George Soros in that animated gif?

//also, SOROSSSSSSS!
 
2013-12-17 11:31:53 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: somedude210: To argue that the Democrats actually having a push to move away from the Corporatists and Clintonian democratic ideals for an actual progressive economic policy is a massive change in it's own right

The problem is that when the GOP moved right in the 80's and 90's, the Dems moved right to occupy the vacuum.  Now we've gotten to the point where the GOP is planted firmly in the lunatic fringe, and you simply cannot go any further to the right.  To preserve a two party system, the Dems need to move left again.


There probably will be a schism, eventually, since our electoral methods guarantee a two-party system. Here's the way I'd see it playing out:

- GOP tent keeps getting smaller and smaller, until that party is irrelevant.
- A short period of one-party rule, where the Democratic primaries are effectively the "real" elections (like today in a lot of cities).
- Democratic primaries factionalize, my guess is along economic-populist/pro-business lines.
- One of those formally splits into another party.
 
2013-12-17 11:32:58 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

BSSBSVR

[archive.rushimg.com image 300x130]
 

Just, stop.


Column A
Fries
Rove
ALEC
Koch Bros
Adelson
Simmons (American Crossroads)

Column B
Soros
Goldman Sachs

Just, stop.
 
2013-12-17 11:34:28 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.


I haven't heard anyone use that term, but it might be appropriately applied to these mooks.
 
2013-12-17 11:34:50 AM  
The very wealthy have done a good job of dividing people, even though teabaggers and OWS people are so far apart on many issues they both know there's a fix in.
 
2013-12-17 11:35:46 AM  

coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180]

We have Martin Freedman as that shadowy figure?

Or is he just playing George Soros in that animated gif?

//also, SOROSSSSSSS!


He's not shadowy in the least.

ionetheurbandaily.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-17 11:36:09 AM  

a_bilge_monkey: Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.

I haven't heard anyone use that term, but it might be appropriately applied to these mooks.


ha! i knew it was going to be turd way without even clicking. yeah, fark those guys.
 
2013-12-17 11:45:44 AM  

Headso: The very wealthy have done a good job of dividing people, even though teabaggers and OWS people are so far apart on many issues they both know there's a fix in.


The difference is, the Tea Party blames the moochers (which, unbeknownst to them, they're part of) whereas OWS correctly blames the institutionalized syphoning of wealth to the top.
 
2013-12-17 11:47:27 AM  

Gulper Eel: Fart_Machine: Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm

If they do, they're doing a shiatty job at getting their message out.


Much like they do a shiatty job of governing when given the opportunity.
 
2013-12-17 11:53:36 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180] #are you serious


Who are the liberal wealthy shadowy figures?

What huge dishonest propaganda machines are they using?

And what are their nefarious purposes?
 
2013-12-17 12:00:02 PM  

R5D4: Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180] #are you serious

Who are the liberal wealthy shadowy figures?

What huge dishonest propaganda machines are they using?

And what are their nefarious purposes?


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-17 12:16:39 PM  
This is playing out in Wisconsin in the Burke vs Vinehout not-quite-a-primary (governor race). Burke is being pushed by the same people who shoved Barrett down our throats twice- her primary qualification for governor is that she routinely hob-nobs with the Democratic Party good-old-boys club in Madison. The 'populists' that still remember 2011 are shocked and outraged (those who, for whatever reason, still don't understand how the Party works). Vinehout, on the other hand, is a standing State Senator who was one of the 13 who filibustered to Illinois, and is a doctor AND a teacher AND a farmer, and can win in a rural district. She's been doing respectable work supporting local communities trying to gain control over frac sand mining, and opposing the Penokees mine which would be the effective genocide of the Bad River Chippewa. But, critically, she doesn't run in the right circles or owe the right favors.

If you people are all going to say "lol wtf is wrong with Wisconsin, they deserve it" then I hope you read the previous paragraph.
 
2013-12-17 12:25:13 PM  

MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.


If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.
 
2013-12-17 12:28:31 PM  

RanDomino: This is playing out in Wisconsin in the Burke vs Vinehout not-quite-a-primary (governor race). Burke is being pushed by the same people who shoved Barrett down our throats twice- her primary qualification for governor is that she routinely hob-nobs with the Democratic Party good-old-boys club in Madison. The 'populists' that still remember 2011 are shocked and outraged (those who, for whatever reason, still don't understand how the Party works). Vinehout, on the other hand, is a standing State Senator who was one of the 13 who filibustered to Illinois, and is a doctor AND a teacher AND a farmer, and can win in a rural district. She's been doing respectable work supporting local communities trying to gain control over frac sand mining, and opposing the Penokees mine which would be the effective genocide of the Bad River Chippewa. But, critically, she doesn't run in the right circles or owe the right favors.

If you people are all going to say "lol wtf is wrong with Wisconsin, they deserve it" then I hope you read the previous paragraph.


hmm...I'm an (I) in WI, and will happily vote for any non-tea-tard-GOP candidate...but why the problem with Burke?  Executive?  Good...challenge Walker on his own turf...millionaire, check...no worries about running out of funds...Former State Commerce Secretary?  Check...knows WI businesses...Opposes Act 10, (Duh...only morons thought it was a good idea)   though close enough to the center to draw in Independents and moderates, former school board member...Appears to take a pragmatic view of taxes...opposes photo ID (which isn't a GOP goal as much as it is a 'tactic') Supports Gay marriage...wants to work toward repealing the abortion law...
 
2013-12-17 12:30:20 PM  

ssmithcsc: MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.

If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.


www.corbisimages.com

Meanwhile 25 years ago...
 
2013-12-17 12:32:52 PM  

ssmithcsc: MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.

If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.


Dance, little puppet. The Koch's want you to dance.
 
2013-12-17 12:36:16 PM  

Gulper Eel: Fart_Machine: Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm

If they do, they're doing a shiatty job at getting their message out.


No they try their best, bless their hearts.  It's just that it's unfair to compare the goldmine of derp that is the current GOP vs the nuggets that Democrats drop on occasion.
 
2013-12-17 01:24:21 PM  
A Cave Geek
Good...challenge Walker on his own turf

That's the problem. We shouldn't be trying to win that turf. We should be trying to destroy it. It's like how Thatcher said her greatest accomplishment was New Labour- it was taken as a joke, but it wasn't; she had successfully shifted the window of 'acceptable' ideas. Is that what we want?

...millionaire, check...no worries about running out of funds

This appears to be where the Democrats' thinking begins and ends. Never mind that they will still be outspent ten times over. Vinehout, on the other hand, would be able to motivate the huge activist base that will be doing the actual legwork, so that rather than knocking on doors and saying "hey vote against walker i guess" they'll be saying "Vote FOR Vinehout"- Which is going to be more convincing? But the Party hasn't learned its lesson from 2004, when we were defeated not by Bush but by Kerry.

...Former State Commerce Secretary? Check...knows WI businesses...

This is her only real qualification

Opposes Act 10, (Duh...only morons thought it was a good idea)

uh, actually, you might want to check your sources on that.

former school board member

The Madison school board seems to be a political playground for Madison liberals. See also the Manske fiasco.

.opposes photo ID (which isn't a GOP goal as much as it is a 'tactic') Supports Gay marriage...wants to work toward repealing the abortion law...

"I get into this race not making any promises"
 
2013-12-17 01:38:45 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I suppose if you're going to believe in a knockout game pandemic, sekrit muslins, Republican Free Market Jesus, a vast marxist conspiracy, false flag school shootings, a liberal plot to utterly disarm you, the UN overtaking the streets, FEMA reeducation camps, encouraged racism against whites, a hostile takeover of the White House by a non-citizen, a perfect version of American society that never existed, a homosexual agenda to thrust gay marriage upon you, lizard people, death panels, a 6,000 year old earth, a conspiracy to ferment terror about the climate, and a President that is both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time, then believing that there is a schism in the democratic party that will lead to its downfall wouldn't be that much of a jump for you.


A little off-topic, and a lot b-b-but Bush, but during the last administration, I really did believe in a President that was both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time. From certain angles, it looked like the guy could barely tie his own shoes, and yet he was terrifyingly successful at advancing a highly authoritarian and opaque form of Dominionist Republicanism. Watching the nation fall in line behind him was nothing short of extraordinary, and Congress seemed to exist for no other reason than to rubberstamp his policies.

The difference, I think, is that Bush had an extraordinary selection of incredibly smart strategists surrounding him at all times, none of whom really had the best interests of the country in mind. No one would accuse Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Cheney, or Rove of being idiots, and Rice was loaded with excellent on-paper qualifications. And while that pretty much admits that Bush was a puppet or a figurehead, the similar accusation leveled against Obama is all about Obama. It doesn't really bring up Biden, Kerry,  Carney, or Hagel as some kind of mastermind; it puts it all squarely on the President. So there's a parallel inconsistency.
 
2013-12-17 02:27:34 PM  

ssmithcsc: MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.

If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.


Who are the liberal wealthy shadowy figures?

What huge dishonest propaganda machines are they using?

And what are their nefarious purposes?
 
2013-12-17 03:01:03 PM  

Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe. To hear them go on, the small faults that exist everywhere on earth are no different from the subduction zone off the coast of Japan. But hey, at least they're just isolated crazies and gibbering idiots like that would never wind up on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, would they?

There is enough scientific ignorance among northeastern leftists to fill every Pentecostal church south of the Mason-Dixon line.


hey thanks for pointing me to that completely sane and rational argument against nuclear power. informative.
 
2013-12-17 03:05:47 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I suppose if you're going to believe in a knockout game pandemic, sekrit muslins, Republican Free Market Jesus, a vast marxist conspiracy, false flag school shootings, a liberal plot to utterly disarm you, the UN overtaking the streets, FEMA reeducation camps, encouraged racism against whites, a hostile takeover of the White House by a non-citizen, a perfect version of American society that never existed, a homosexual agenda to thrust gay marriage upon you, lizard people, death panels, a 6,000 year old earth, a conspiracy to ferment terror about the climate, and a President that is both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time, then believing that there is a schism in the democratic party that will lead to its downfall wouldn't be that much of a jump for you.


That's approaching Pocket Ninja quality right there.
 
2013-12-17 03:13:08 PM  
HIllary Clinton and the pro-bank camp will win this battle. The Dems will vote for her like good little sheep, all the while calling the Republicans out for their greed and ties to the banks (which is true as well).

Hillary will give us a new NAFTA in terms of farking us over and her wealth will grow.
 
2013-12-17 03:13:27 PM  

ikanreed: The democrats have always been a divided party.  The closest they've ever come to being unified was getting together and saying "how about we don't let the republicans destroy the country?"


Yes, this is pretty much the truth, the whole truth, and nuttin' but the truth.

RWNJs like teh crazeee.  So much they try to get it elected.
 
2013-12-17 03:22:41 PM  

Barfmaker: I believe this "terrible schism" is what's called "dialogue" Subby, it's how adults do things.


Basically. I mean...that's not a schism. It's just different ideas being discussed and worked on.
 
2013-12-17 03:25:46 PM  

Nemo's Brother: HIllary Clinton and the pro-bank camp will win this battle. The Dems will vote for her like good little sheep, all the while calling the Republicans out for their greed and ties to the banks (which is true as well).

Hillary will give us a new NAFTA in terms of farking us over and her wealth will grow.


I thought she got rich from Whitewater and from forcing Vince Foster to write her into his will before he "killed himself". At least, that's what I heard.

At the risk of agreeing with derpers, I have to say that I am occasionally troubled by the fact that every person who comes to Washington as a Senator or Representative becomes a multi-millionaire by the end of his term, regardless of what he started with or which party he belongs to.
 
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