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(The New Republic)   You know, we're tired of going on and on about how the GOP are eating their young and are on the verge of a thousand year darkness within the party...let's talk about the Democrats having their own "terrible schism" within their party for once   (newrepublic.com) divider line 103
    More: Interesting, GOP, Democrats, Sheila Bair, Bill de Blasio, Gary Gensler, racial minorities, Big Ag, Matt Bennett  
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1324 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Dec 2013 at 9:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



103 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-17 08:14:45 AM  
You know, we're tired of going on and on about how the GOP are eating their young and are on the verge of a thousand year darkness within the party...let's talk about

24.media.tumblr.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-17 08:20:18 AM  
Yeah, this is totally the same thing as the Tea Party.
 
2013-12-17 08:21:06 AM  
At least the Democratic party's little civil war isnt resulting in a government shutdowns, and costing the nation 24+ Billion dollars.
 
2013-12-17 08:24:41 AM  

Heliovdrake: At least the Democratic party's little civil war isnt resulting in a government shutdowns, and costing the nation 24+ Billion dollars.


True, but this is still a radical change in thought within the party, just without the dire consequences of the Tea Derpers trying to take over.

To argue that the Democrats actually having a push to move away from the Corporatists and Clintonian democratic ideals for an actual progressive economic policy is a massive change in it's own right.
 
2013-12-17 08:33:25 AM  
Why the right wing doesn't have trackers following the crazypants wing of the Democratic party the way Kos and ThinkProgress watch the likes of Bachmann and Gohmert and that farktard Tennessee state legislator whose name escapes me at the moment, I have no idea. Sometimes they'll note when Alan Grayson brings the stupid, but there are dozens of leftist congressmembers who haven't had bullshiat called on them in ages.

Is it that hard to keep track of when somebody like Maxine Waters is running her fool mouth?

Campfield. That's the dipshiat from Tennessee I was thinking of.
 
2013-12-17 08:34:02 AM  
I believe this "terrible schism" is what's called "dialogue" Subby, it's how adults do things.
 
2013-12-17 08:45:15 AM  

somedude210: True, but this is still a radical change in thought within the party, just without the dire consequences of the Tea Derpers trying to take over.


Yeah, it's called introspection, and it would only be labelled radical by an unchecked, unwavering, uneducated, dubiously propped-up and overfunded psychotic fringe wing of the Democratic party--which doesn't exist.
 
2013-12-17 08:46:02 AM  
Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.
 
2013-12-17 08:49:21 AM  

thamike: Yeah, it's called introspection, and it would only be labelled radical by an unchecked, unwavering, uneducated, dubiously propped-up and overfunded psychotic fringe wing of the Democratic party--which doesn't exist.


no, it's radical not in the "burn the bridges! KILL THE UNCLEAN" way, it's radical as in a completely different thought process than what is currently bandied about as policy. Christ are some of you getting your panties in a wad about this.

Barfmaker: I believe this "terrible schism" is what's called "dialogue" Subby, it's how adults do things.


first off, the headline is tongue-in-cheek at the whole idea that this is on par with the Tea Tards trying to run the GOP. Secondly, the schism is what the article calls it. So fark you.
 
2013-12-17 08:54:10 AM  

MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.


Goldman Sachs (D/R-NY) thinks you're adorable for thinking that.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-17 08:57:23 AM  
Gulper Eel:

Is it that hard to keep track of when somebody like Maxine Waters is running her fool mouth?

Campfield. That's the dipshiat from Tennessee I was thinking of.


I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.  Or maybe it's because the crazy pants wing of the GOP is 80% of the party and Maxine Waters sounds pretty intelligent compares to just about any GOPer.
 
2013-12-17 09:00:15 AM  
I suppose if you're going to believe in a knockout game pandemic, sekrit muslins, Republican Free Market Jesus, a vast marxist conspiracy, false flag school shootings, a liberal plot to utterly disarm you, the UN overtaking the streets, FEMA reeducation camps, encouraged racism against whites, a hostile takeover of the White House by a non-citizen, a perfect version of American society that never existed, a homosexual agenda to thrust gay marriage upon you, lizard people, death panels, a 6,000 year old earth, a conspiracy to ferment terror about the climate, and a President that is both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time, then believing that there is a schism in the democratic party that will lead to its downfall wouldn't be that much of a jump for you.
 
2013-12-17 09:07:33 AM  
^ a-a-n-d thread.
 
2013-12-17 09:10:07 AM  

somedude210: no, it's radical not in the "burn the bridges! KILL THE UNCLEAN" way, it's radical as in a completely different thought process than what is currently bandied about as policy. Christ are some of you getting your panties in a wad about this.


Ah America, where a bunch of politicians trying to find a firm, focused resting spot for the common ground be labeled "radical."

Unless you're calm.  Are you calm?  Because I don't want to turn this into a "calmer than you" pissing match.
 
2013-12-17 09:14:29 AM  

vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.


Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe. To hear them go on, the small faults that exist everywhere on earth are no different from the subduction zone off the coast of Japan. But hey, at least they're just isolated crazies and gibbering idiots like that would never wind up on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, would they?

There is enough scientific ignorance among northeastern leftists to fill every Pentecostal church south of the Mason-Dixon line.
 
2013-12-17 09:15:29 AM  

thamike: Ah America, where a bunch of politicians trying to find a firm, focused resting spot for the common ground be labeled "radical."


It's radical in that it's a divergent change from the status quo regarding economic policy of Democrats (and Republicans) from the last 40 years. This is in fact a definition of radical and the definition of radical being used. Stop trying to make this "OMG THEY'RE CALLING THEM ECONOMIC TERRORISTS" crap
 
2013-12-17 09:19:02 AM  

somedude210: thamike: Ah America, where a bunch of politicians trying to find a firm, focused resting spot for the common ground be labeled "radical."

It's radical in that it's a divergent change from the status quo regarding economic policy of Democrats (and Republicans) from the last 40 years. This is in fact a definition of radical and the definition of radical being used. Stop trying to make this "OMG THEY'RE CALLING THEM ECONOMIC TERRORISTS" crap


31.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-17 09:20:02 AM  

thamike: somedude210: thamike: Ah America, where a bunch of politicians trying to find a firm, focused resting spot for the common ground be labeled "radical."

It's radical in that it's a divergent change from the status quo regarding economic policy of Democrats (and Republicans) from the last 40 years. This is in fact a definition of radical and the definition of radical being used. Stop trying to make this "OMG THEY'RE CALLING THEM ECONOMIC TERRORISTS" crap

[31.media.tumblr.com image 400x225]


oh for fark's sake....
 
2013-12-17 09:31:50 AM  

Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe.


The linked article says nothing like that. You're lying again.
 
2013-12-17 09:33:09 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe.

The linked article says nothing like that. You're lying again.


And I hope it's not lost on anyone that you just made some crap up while disputing that people on the right make crap up.
 
2013-12-17 09:33:44 AM  

Gulper Eel: Why the right wing doesn't have trackers following the crazypants wing of the Democratic party the way Kos and ThinkProgress watch the likes of Bachmann and Gohmert and that farktard Tennessee state legislator whose name escapes me at the moment, I have no idea. Sometimes they'll note when Alan Grayson brings the stupid, but there are dozens of leftist congressmembers who haven't had bullshiat called on them in ages.

Is it that hard to keep track of when somebody like Maxine Waters is running her fool mouth?

Campfield. That's the dipshiat from Tennessee I was thinking of.


Maxine Waters and Alan Grayson are not presidential candidates acting as the face of the party.

Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are absolute nutjobs that will be front and center in 2016.
 
2013-12-17 09:37:19 AM  

Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe. To hear them go on, the small faults that exist everywhere on earth are no different from the subduction zone off the coast of Japan. But hey, at least they're just isolated crazies and gibbering idiots like that would never wind up on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, would they?

There is enough scientific ignorance among northeastern leftists to fill every Pentecostal church south of the Mason-Dixon line.


Sure, sure. How many candidates from this "neoluddite environmentalist left" actually get elected? Zero? Funny how that works out.
 
2013-12-17 09:41:14 AM  

vpb: Yeah, this is totally the same thing as the Tea Party.


^This

The Democrats Democrats and RINOs are arguing over how fast to spend us into bankruptcy. No real conflict there.
 
2013-12-17 09:41:29 AM  

Gulper Eel: northeastern leftists


Some anti-vaxxers are leftists. Some aren't. Which has f*ck-all to do with which party is more anti-science.

And the battle over the safety of Indian Point also has f*ck-all to do with "leftists". That is, unless someone is actually enough of a moron to think Andrew Cuomo is a leftist.
 
2013-12-17 09:44:25 AM  

MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.


But...but...but...SOROS!!!111oneevelentyone!
 
2013-12-17 09:45:52 AM  

somedude210: Heliovdrake: At least the Democratic party's little civil war isnt resulting in a government shutdowns, and costing the nation 24+ Billion dollars.

True, but this is still a radical change in thought within the party, just without the dire consequences of the Tea Derpers trying to take over.

To argue that the Democrats actually having a push to move away from the Corporatists and Clintonian democratic ideals for an actual progressive economic policy is a massive change in it's own right.


The deflection attempts are getting rather blatant...aren't they?
 
2013-12-17 09:47:21 AM  

qorkfiend: There is enough scientific ignorance among northeastern leftists to fill every Pentecostal church south of the Mason-Dixon line.


You explain the tea party's complete lack of basic understanding of the world around them, and we can discuss....
 
2013-12-17 09:48:00 AM  

Gulper Eel: Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left ...


You mean a bunch of people who have not been elected? This has always been the difference between the right and left. The left tolerates the whackos, the right runs them for President.
 
2013-12-17 09:49:38 AM  
So Chuck Norris was just talking about the Republican party?   In that case he nailed it.
i.huffpost.com
 
2013-12-17 09:51:37 AM  
Yes yes the anti-clintonian upsurge within the Democratic party embodied by the election of Clinton dog Bill de Blasio. The business Democrats are running with their tails between their legs to chain some CPI.

Wake me when this schism is at least 40% less pathetic.
 
2013-12-17 09:53:06 AM  

GameSprocket: The left tolerates the whackos


Tolerates?  More like tries to ignore them and hopes they'll go away.
 
2013-12-17 09:53:50 AM  

Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe. To hear them go on, the small faults that exist everywhere on earth are no different from the subduction zone off the coast of Japan. But hey, at least they're just isolated crazies and gibbering idiots like that would never wind up on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, would they?

There is enough scientific ignorance among northeastern leftists to fill every Pentecostal church south of the Mason-Dixon line.


A) They don't sound completely insane.  They sound a little NIMBY, but that's to be expected if you live near a nuclear power plant.
B) The guy who wrote the second piece was a member of the NRC from 1975 to 1984.  You are being really misleading by implying that "crazy gibbering idiots" are elected for being crazy gibbering idiots.
C) Victor Gilinsky was appointed by Richard Farking Nixon

What the fark is your point?  Linking a Nixon appointee to "northeastern leftist" "scientific ignorance" seems really silly to me.
 
2013-12-17 09:54:15 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: HotWingConspiracy: Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe.

The linked article says nothing like that. You're lying again.

And I hope it's not lost on anyone that you just made some crap up while disputing that people on the right make crap up.


Hmm...that's a nasty case of obtuseness you've got there. Gonna have to up the dosage.

The splashiest of NYSDEC's complaints are that cancer-causing radionuclides from spent-fuel pools, pipes and tanks have leaked into the groundwater under Indian Point and are oozing into the Hudson. The numbers do sound dire: up to 600,000 pico-curies of tritium per liter in some monitoring wells. That's 30 times the EPA drinking water limit, on top of 13 times the limit for strontium-90, an isotope that accumulates in bone; up to 100 times the limit for cesium-137. But because EPA water standards are extraordinarily strict-and because radiation is a much weaker carcinogen than most people realize-the contamination is actually pretty innocuous.

If you were to drink a half gallon of water containing those contaminants at those concentrations every day for 25 years, you would have a one percent chance of getting a fatal cancer from them, on top of the 20 percent lifetime risk you already face. That would make Indian Point groundwater roughly as carcinogenic as beer. Diluted into the immense volume of the Hudson, those radionuclide concentrations fall to harmless levels far below drinking water limits.


--

Read every bit of it to get the rest of the bases covered and fearmongerings debunked. Then return to more dipshiat blithering if you really need it, and you can explain how a leading environmental group issuing a dire warning entitled "Fukushima on the Hudson" isn't saying anything about a potential Fukushima on the Hudson.
 
2013-12-17 09:56:37 AM  

A Cave Geek: The deflection attempts are getting rather blatant...aren't they?


Oh for fark's sake. WHAT DEFLECTION? Christ almighty, I'm agreeing with you retards that this isn't a goddamn schism in the same vein as the TeaTards trying to take control of the GOP. It's not even within the same dimension. I was saying that there is a clear rivalry emerging within the Democratic party between the Clintonian democrats and the actual progressives. To deny that there isn't something brewing as to where to take the party is just being blind to reality. BUT I AM NOT SAYING IT'S THE SAME GODDAMN FARKING THING AS THE TEATARD REBELLION
 
2013-12-17 09:56:46 AM  
The democrats have always been a divided party.  The closest they've ever come to being unified was getting together and saying "how about we don't let the republicans destroy the country?"
 
2013-12-17 09:59:36 AM  
BOTH SIDES R  BAD!

/so vote humunculous
 
2013-12-17 10:01:12 AM  

Gulper Eel: HotWingConspiracy: HotWingConspiracy: Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe.

The linked article says nothing like that. You're lying again.

And I hope it's not lost on anyone that you just made some crap up while disputing that people on the right make crap up.

Hmm...that's a nasty case of obtuseness you've got there. Gonna have to up the dosage.

The splashiest of NYSDEC's complaints are that cancer-causing radionuclides from spent-fuel pools, pipes and tanks have leaked into the groundwater under Indian Point and are oozing into the Hudson. The numbers do sound dire: up to 600,000 pico-curies of tritium per liter in some monitoring wells. That's 30 times the EPA drinking water limit, on top of 13 times the limit for strontium-90, an isotope that accumulates in bone; up to 100 times the limit for cesium-137. But because EPA water standards are extraordinarily strict-and because radiation is a much weaker carcinogen than most people realize-the contamination is actually pretty innocuous.

If you were to drink a half gallon of water containing those contaminants at those concentrations every day for 25 years, you would have a one percent chance of getting a fatal cancer from them, on top of the 20 percent lifetime risk you already face. That would make Indian Point groundwater roughly as carcinogenic as beer. Diluted into the immense volume of the Hudson, those radionuclide concentrations fall to harmless levels far below drinking water limits.


Still not what you claimed. You're a liar.

BTW, I currently dwell a mile away from the thing, you're not schooling me on anything.

Read every bit of it to get the rest of the bases covered and fearmongerings debunked. Then return to   if you really need it, and you can explain how a leading environmental group issuing a dire warning entitled "Fukushima on the Hudson" isn't saying anything about a potential Fukushima on the Hudson.

Where is the part about " a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. "?

Are you really going to harp on the title of the graphic? Try to think big here - maybe, just maybe, they're pointing out what a disaster - any disaster - that affects the plant might mean for the surrounding areas and arguably the nation's most important city.
 
2013-12-17 10:02:45 AM  
For once? The GOP has been pushing that narrative since Romney lost over a year ago.
 
2013-12-17 10:02:54 AM  

Gulper Eel: HotWingConspiracy: HotWingConspiracy: Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe.

The linked article says nothing like that. You're lying again.

And I hope it's not lost on anyone that you just made some crap up while disputing that people on the right make crap up.

Hmm...that's a nasty case of obtuseness you've got there. Gonna have to up the dosage.

The splashiest of NYSDEC's complaints are that cancer-causing radionuclides from spent-fuel pools, pipes and tanks have leaked into the groundwater under Indian Point and are oozing into the Hudson. The numbers do sound dire: up to 600,000 pico-curies of tritium per liter in some monitoring wells. That's 30 times the EPA drinking water limit, on top of 13 times the limit for strontium-90, an isotope that accumulates in bone; up to 100 times the limit for cesium-137. But because EPA water standards are extraordinarily strict-and because radiation is a much weaker carcinogen than most people realize-the contamination is actually pretty innocuous.

If you were to drink a half gallon of water containing those contaminants at those concentrations every day for 25 years, you would have a one percent chance of getting a fatal cancer from them, on top of the 20 percent lifetime risk you already face. That would make Indian Point groundwater roughly as carcinogenic as beer. Diluted into the immense volume of th ...


Their point, if you were to read it, is that the Indian Point Plant is the same design as Fukushima, and that we shouldn't renew the charter until any previously unforeseen problems are addressed.  The design was considered "meltdown proof" and while it was a serious disaster, the Fukushima incident demonstrates that they aren't actually meltdown proof.  How dare a local environmental group ask what would happen if a similar failure happened to an identical plant.  The nerve of wanting some reassurances.

And you still haven't addressed the fact that you're lying about these people getting appointed to positions of power among Democrats...
 
2013-12-17 10:04:19 AM  
I thought the greatest schism between us libruls was whether or not we should call ourselves the United Atheist League or the Unified Atheist League?
 
2013-12-17 10:05:17 AM  

somedude210: A Cave Geek: The deflection attempts are getting rather blatant...aren't they?

Oh for fark's sake. WHAT DEFLECTION? Christ almighty, I'm agreeing with you retards that this isn't a goddamn schism in the same vein as the TeaTards trying to take control of the GOP. It's not even within the same dimension. I was saying that there is a clear rivalry emerging within the Democratic party between the Clintonian democrats and the actual progressives. To deny that there isn't something brewing as to where to take the party is just being blind to reality. BUT I AM NOT SAYING IT'S THE SAME GODDAMN FARKING THING AS THE TEATARD REBELLION


Touchy, aren't we this morning?  Look, The D's are indeed losing moderates for the same reason that the GOP is...The D's are simply (And only currently) better at keeping enough of the base around to maintain some coherence.  The D's have never been very good at uniformity.  That's the GOP's strength.  But the D's can function without absolute uniformity.  The GOP cannot.

I don't think there's really any 'schism' going on here.  The D's have always been less uniform than the GOP.  They make it work for them, where the GOP sees it as some kind of weakness...it's not.

FFS...go get some coffee.
 
2013-12-17 10:05:27 AM  

GameSprocket: You mean a bunch of people who have not been elected? This has always been the difference between the right and left. The left tolerates the whackos, the right runs them for President.


The left is cagier about such things, I will grant. Elected positions are a bummer. You have to keep running for re-election. You have to make contact with those filthy voters. Far better to be a nicely-compensated and little-scrutinized patronage appointee.
 
2013-12-17 10:06:10 AM  
Republican schism:
upload.wikimedia.org

Democratic schism:
4.bp.blogspot.com

Looks just as bad to me....
 
2013-12-17 10:09:31 AM  
Schism?  What schism?  You have the centrists (80%), Blue Dogs (18%) and liberals (2%).  They vote their conscience (60%) or the lobbying interests' consicence (40%) pretty consistently.  They band together whenever the GOP does something monumentally retarded (70%) or do whatever (30%).

-Rand Paul, "How to Statistically Prove Nothing with Statistics"
 
2013-12-17 10:10:26 AM  
I suppose that in the event of an utter defeat of the repubs (Democratic control of the House and Senate after the 2014 elections followed by retention of the White House in 2016 would qualify) and the complete repudiation of the radical right wing program by the American electorate, triumphant Democratic factions might start to fight over the spoils in the manner suggested by this article. First things first, however. Plus, the Democrats would have the salutary example of the repubs circa 2000-2006 to remind them why going overboard on a radical agenda is a bad thing.
 
2013-12-17 10:10:46 AM  
Is someone trying to argue that being an "Anti-vaxxer" is a leftist position?

Is Michelle Bachman a leftist now?
 
2013-12-17 10:11:05 AM  

BeesNuts: Their point, if you were to read it, is that the Indian Point Plant is the same design as Fukushima, and that we shouldn't renew the charter until any previously unforeseen problems are addressed. The design was considered "meltdown proof" and while it was a serious disaster, the Fukushima incident demonstrates that they aren't actually meltdown proof. How dare a local environmental group ask what would happen if a similar failure happened to an identical plant. The nerve of wanting some reassurances.


The only way there's going to be a similar failure at Indian Point is if a similar disaster happens to Indian Point and that just isn't in the cards - and even if it was, there would be a shiatload more to worry about than the nuclear power plant. New York City didn't even have a seismic section in its building code until 1995.

Personally, I'd rather a new nuclear plant replace it but nobody's proposing that.
 
2013-12-17 10:13:39 AM  

Felgraf: Is someone trying to argue that being an "Anti-vaxxer" is a leftist position?

Is Michelle Bachman a leftist now?


When she says it she's rightly derided as crazy. When Jenny McCarthy says it she's blasted as an idiot.

When RFK Jr. says it...(sigh, swoon) let us all ponder once again the tragic majesty and noble legacy of Camelot.
 
2013-12-17 10:19:03 AM  

Gulper Eel: BeesNuts: Their point, if you were to read it, is that the Indian Point Plant is the same design as Fukushima, and that we shouldn't renew the charter until any previously unforeseen problems are addressed. The design was considered "meltdown proof" and while it was a serious disaster, the Fukushima incident demonstrates that they aren't actually meltdown proof. How dare a local environmental group ask what would happen if a similar failure happened to an identical plant. The nerve of wanting some reassurances.

The only way there's going to be a similar failure at Indian Point is if a similar disaster happens to Indian Point and that just isn't in the cards - and even if it was, there would be a shiatload more to worry about than the nuclear power plant. New York City didn't even have a seismic section in its building code until 1995.

Personally, I'd rather a new nuclear plant replace it but nobody's proposing that.


We should be pursuing these:

http://www.gizmag.com/thorium-nuclear-power/18204/
 
2013-12-17 10:22:43 AM  
MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-17 10:25:13 AM  

Gulper Eel: When RFK Jr. says it...(sigh, swoon) let us all ponder once again the tragic majesty and noble legacy of Camelot.


Survey says he got put through the ringer for that one, same as everybody else.  You could get a job in autistic Kennedy porn though.
 
2013-12-17 10:28:06 AM  

Guuberre: Republican schism:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x213]

Democratic schism:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]

Looks just as bad to me....


cdn.newsday.com

"You knocked over President Backyard."
 
2013-12-17 10:32:10 AM  

A Cave Geek: Touchy, aren't we this morning?


Fark it. I'm done. You guys want to falsely claim that I'm saying the split in the Democratic party that's forming is as bad as the Teatards, then make the claim. I'm tired this crap. There's a shift in the party as to where to go from here. Who know who comes out as the front of the party, but there is a shift going on.
 
2013-12-17 10:34:05 AM  

somedude210: A Cave Geek: The deflection attempts are getting rather blatant...aren't they?

Oh for fark's sake. WHAT DEFLECTION? Christ almighty, I'm agreeing with you retards that this isn't a goddamn schism in the same vein as the TeaTards trying to take control of the GOP. It's not even within the same dimension. I was saying that there is a clear rivalry emerging within the Democratic party between the Clintonian democrats and the actual progressives. To deny that there isn't something brewing as to where to take the party is just being blind to reality. BUT I AM NOT SAYING IT'S THE SAME GODDAMN FARKING THING AS THE TEATARD REBELLION


What do you mean trying? I thought that they had enough votes to block anything that the rest of the GOP wanted to do. And pretty much have been controlling the GOP since they came to power.
Which has worked out perfectly for the dems
 
2013-12-17 10:34:26 AM  

somedude210: To argue that the Democrats actually having a push to move away from the Corporatists and Clintonian democratic ideals for an actual progressive economic policy is a massive change in it's own right


The problem is that when the GOP moved right in the 80's and 90's, the Dems moved right to occupy the vacuum.  Now we've gotten to the point where the GOP is planted firmly in the lunatic fringe, and you simply cannot go any further to the right.  To preserve a two party system, the Dems need to move left again.
 
2013-12-17 10:34:33 AM  

Gulper Eel: Felgraf: Is someone trying to argue that being an "Anti-vaxxer" is a leftist position?

Is Michelle Bachman a leftist now?

When she says it she's rightly derided as crazy. When Jenny McCarthy says it she's blasted as an idiot.

When RFK Jr. says it...(sigh, swoon) let us all ponder once again the tragic majesty and noble legacy of Camelot.


What farking planet do you live on? A simple search demonstrates you're just making this up. He was appropriately shiat all over for it.
 
2013-12-17 10:36:45 AM  

thamike: Survey says he got put through the ringer for that one, same as everybody else.


Put through the wringer by Fark and by Slate, but plenty of others - looking at YOU, Huffington, Rolling Stone, Katie Couric and Salon - have given him free rein to bring the crazy, although six years later Salon at least decided to get a little bit embarrassed about having done so.

He's a crackpot, and the only reason the press gives him space to talk about nuclear power is because Kennedy.
 
2013-12-17 10:39:02 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: The problem is that when the GOP moved right in the 80's and 90's, the Dems moved right to occupy the vacuum. Now we've gotten to the point where the GOP is planted firmly in the lunatic fringe, and you simply cannot go any further to the right. To preserve a two party system, the Dems need to move left again.


Agreed. That and the populace is more left of center at the moment than right of center (as they were in the 90s-early 00s) and there isn't a left of center or even a center-left party (those are two different things, I swear)
 
2013-12-17 10:39:33 AM  
Schisms in the Democratic Party aren't news, they're business as usual.
 
2013-12-17 10:41:53 AM  
the word is foment, not ferment
 
2013-12-17 10:42:36 AM  
"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

-- Will Rogers
 
2013-12-17 10:43:43 AM  

Wendy's Chili: Schisms in the Democratic Party aren't news, they're business as usual.


Pretty much this. I read the headline and immediately thought that they would first need clearly defined sides to have a schism.
 
2013-12-17 10:43:48 AM  

somedude210: Barfmaker: I believe this "terrible schism" is what's called "dialogue" Subby, it's how adults do things.

first off, the headline is tongue-in-cheek at the whole idea that this is on par with the Tea Tards trying to run the GOP. Secondly, the schism is what the article calls it. So fark you.


firedaily.com
 
2013-12-17 10:47:41 AM  

somedude210: A Cave Geek: Touchy, aren't we this morning?

Fark it. I'm done. You guys want to falsely claim that I'm saying the split in the Democratic party that's forming is as bad as the Teatards, then make the claim. I'm tired this crap. There's a shift in the party as to where to go from here. Who know who comes out as the front of the party, but there is a shift going on.


media2.giphy.com

Aw, hey neighbor, don't go away like that. I don't want you mad.
Be neighborly. See that sexy girl in the crazy Easter mask on my right?
You didn't notice her the first time, yeah?  Come on, let's hang.
 
2013-12-17 10:51:05 AM  
When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.
 
2013-12-17 10:58:06 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180]


Oh. I forgot. "Lamestream media is the the pocket of the Liburls". And it's the "Global Warming hoaxsters" who are running everything so they can get rich off grant money.

BSSBSVR
 
2013-12-17 10:58:09 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.


www.astb.se2.bp.blogspot.com

It is known.
 
2013-12-17 11:02:02 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.


When most of the last of the Blue Dogs got swept out in 2010. Jim Matheson still gets the term thrown at him from time to time, but most Democrats are aware that he's doing his best in an extremely difficult district.

Joe Lieberman was the last one where the charge was repeatedly, vociferously, and accurately leveled. Otherwise, the left wing of the Democratic party tries to focus on moral suasion and pressure (having proven that it can collect some scalps in the primaries if it wants to) rather than ostracizing.
 
2013-12-17 11:02:52 AM  
The GOPs greatest hits of this millienium include

Running Sarah Palin to be VP of the most powerful country in the world
W. (he who shall not be named)
47 percent
 
2013-12-17 11:06:56 AM  

Gulper Eel: Why the right wing doesn't have trackers following the crazypants wing of the Democratic party the way Kos and ThinkProgress watch the likes of Bachmann and Gohmert and that farktard Tennessee state legislator whose name escapes me at the moment, I have no idea. Sometimes they'll note when Alan Grayson brings the stupid, but there are dozens of leftist congressmembers who haven't had bullshiat called on them in ages.

Is it that hard to keep track of when somebody like Maxine Waters is running her fool mouth?

Campfield. That's the dipshiat from Tennessee I was thinking of.


Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm
 
2013-12-17 11:07:57 AM  
The democratic party has always argued amongst themselves... it's called "debate". This is why they don't lockstep when they vote, especially in congress, like the republicans do. They think for themselves, and sometimes that causes dissent within the ranks. This is one of their strengths, the ability to have differences of opinion and to vote accordingly.

Their arguments have never causes any of the bullsh*t the republicans and their tea party puppemasters have pulled over the last decade.
 
2013-12-17 11:11:23 AM  
Elizabeth Warren is a start. Liberals have let minority poltiics dominate their message. This has enabled them to enact important changes with regards to gay marriage and other social issues, but let other issues go to the wayside.
 
2013-12-17 11:16:38 AM  
MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

BSSBSVR


archive.rushimg.com
 

Just, stop.
 
2013-12-17 11:17:58 AM  

Fart_Machine: Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm


If they do, they're doing a shiatty job at getting their message out.
 
2013-12-17 11:28:45 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180]


We have Martin Freedman as that shadowy figure?

Or is he just playing George Soros in that animated gif?

//also, SOROSSSSSSS!
 
2013-12-17 11:31:53 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: somedude210: To argue that the Democrats actually having a push to move away from the Corporatists and Clintonian democratic ideals for an actual progressive economic policy is a massive change in it's own right

The problem is that when the GOP moved right in the 80's and 90's, the Dems moved right to occupy the vacuum.  Now we've gotten to the point where the GOP is planted firmly in the lunatic fringe, and you simply cannot go any further to the right.  To preserve a two party system, the Dems need to move left again.


There probably will be a schism, eventually, since our electoral methods guarantee a two-party system. Here's the way I'd see it playing out:

- GOP tent keeps getting smaller and smaller, until that party is irrelevant.
- A short period of one-party rule, where the Democratic primaries are effectively the "real" elections (like today in a lot of cities).
- Democratic primaries factionalize, my guess is along economic-populist/pro-business lines.
- One of those formally splits into another party.
 
2013-12-17 11:32:58 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

BSSBSVR

[archive.rushimg.com image 300x130]
 

Just, stop.


Column A
Fries
Rove
ALEC
Koch Bros
Adelson
Simmons (American Crossroads)

Column B
Soros
Goldman Sachs

Just, stop.
 
2013-12-17 11:34:28 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.


I haven't heard anyone use that term, but it might be appropriately applied to these mooks.
 
2013-12-17 11:34:50 AM  
The very wealthy have done a good job of dividing people, even though teabaggers and OWS people are so far apart on many issues they both know there's a fix in.
 
2013-12-17 11:35:46 AM  

coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180]

We have Martin Freedman as that shadowy figure?

Or is he just playing George Soros in that animated gif?

//also, SOROSSSSSSS!


He's not shadowy in the least.

ionetheurbandaily.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-17 11:36:09 AM  

a_bilge_monkey: Almost Everybody Poops: When was the last time your heard the term "DINO"? That's what's different.

I haven't heard anyone use that term, but it might be appropriately applied to these mooks.


ha! i knew it was going to be turd way without even clicking. yeah, fark those guys.
 
2013-12-17 11:45:44 AM  

Headso: The very wealthy have done a good job of dividing people, even though teabaggers and OWS people are so far apart on many issues they both know there's a fix in.


The difference is, the Tea Party blames the moochers (which, unbeknownst to them, they're part of) whereas OWS correctly blames the institutionalized syphoning of wealth to the top.
 
2013-12-17 11:47:27 AM  

Gulper Eel: Fart_Machine: Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm

If they do, they're doing a shiatty job at getting their message out.


Much like they do a shiatty job of governing when given the opportunity.
 
2013-12-17 11:53:36 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180] #are you serious


Who are the liberal wealthy shadowy figures?

What huge dishonest propaganda machines are they using?

And what are their nefarious purposes?
 
2013-12-17 12:00:02 PM  

R5D4: Zeb Hesselgresser: MrBallou:   Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

[media.tumblr.com image 245x180] #are you serious

Who are the liberal wealthy shadowy figures?

What huge dishonest propaganda machines are they using?

And what are their nefarious purposes?


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-17 12:16:39 PM  
This is playing out in Wisconsin in the Burke vs Vinehout not-quite-a-primary (governor race). Burke is being pushed by the same people who shoved Barrett down our throats twice- her primary qualification for governor is that she routinely hob-nobs with the Democratic Party good-old-boys club in Madison. The 'populists' that still remember 2011 are shocked and outraged (those who, for whatever reason, still don't understand how the Party works). Vinehout, on the other hand, is a standing State Senator who was one of the 13 who filibustered to Illinois, and is a doctor AND a teacher AND a farmer, and can win in a rural district. She's been doing respectable work supporting local communities trying to gain control over frac sand mining, and opposing the Penokees mine which would be the effective genocide of the Bad River Chippewa. But, critically, she doesn't run in the right circles or owe the right favors.

If you people are all going to say "lol wtf is wrong with Wisconsin, they deserve it" then I hope you read the previous paragraph.
 
2013-12-17 12:25:13 PM  

MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.


If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.
 
2013-12-17 12:28:31 PM  

RanDomino: This is playing out in Wisconsin in the Burke vs Vinehout not-quite-a-primary (governor race). Burke is being pushed by the same people who shoved Barrett down our throats twice- her primary qualification for governor is that she routinely hob-nobs with the Democratic Party good-old-boys club in Madison. The 'populists' that still remember 2011 are shocked and outraged (those who, for whatever reason, still don't understand how the Party works). Vinehout, on the other hand, is a standing State Senator who was one of the 13 who filibustered to Illinois, and is a doctor AND a teacher AND a farmer, and can win in a rural district. She's been doing respectable work supporting local communities trying to gain control over frac sand mining, and opposing the Penokees mine which would be the effective genocide of the Bad River Chippewa. But, critically, she doesn't run in the right circles or owe the right favors.

If you people are all going to say "lol wtf is wrong with Wisconsin, they deserve it" then I hope you read the previous paragraph.


hmm...I'm an (I) in WI, and will happily vote for any non-tea-tard-GOP candidate...but why the problem with Burke?  Executive?  Good...challenge Walker on his own turf...millionaire, check...no worries about running out of funds...Former State Commerce Secretary?  Check...knows WI businesses...Opposes Act 10, (Duh...only morons thought it was a good idea)   though close enough to the center to draw in Independents and moderates, former school board member...Appears to take a pragmatic view of taxes...opposes photo ID (which isn't a GOP goal as much as it is a 'tactic') Supports Gay marriage...wants to work toward repealing the abortion law...
 
2013-12-17 12:30:20 PM  

ssmithcsc: MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.

If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.


www.corbisimages.com

Meanwhile 25 years ago...
 
2013-12-17 12:32:52 PM  

ssmithcsc: MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.

If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.


Dance, little puppet. The Koch's want you to dance.
 
2013-12-17 12:36:16 PM  

Gulper Eel: Fart_Machine: Yes the right doesn't have any blogs that monitor Democrats.

/face palm

If they do, they're doing a shiatty job at getting their message out.


No they try their best, bless their hearts.  It's just that it's unfair to compare the goldmine of derp that is the current GOP vs the nuggets that Democrats drop on occasion.
 
2013-12-17 01:24:21 PM  
A Cave Geek
Good...challenge Walker on his own turf

That's the problem. We shouldn't be trying to win that turf. We should be trying to destroy it. It's like how Thatcher said her greatest accomplishment was New Labour- it was taken as a joke, but it wasn't; she had successfully shifted the window of 'acceptable' ideas. Is that what we want?

...millionaire, check...no worries about running out of funds

This appears to be where the Democrats' thinking begins and ends. Never mind that they will still be outspent ten times over. Vinehout, on the other hand, would be able to motivate the huge activist base that will be doing the actual legwork, so that rather than knocking on doors and saying "hey vote against walker i guess" they'll be saying "Vote FOR Vinehout"- Which is going to be more convincing? But the Party hasn't learned its lesson from 2004, when we were defeated not by Bush but by Kerry.

...Former State Commerce Secretary? Check...knows WI businesses...

This is her only real qualification

Opposes Act 10, (Duh...only morons thought it was a good idea)

uh, actually, you might want to check your sources on that.

former school board member

The Madison school board seems to be a political playground for Madison liberals. See also the Manske fiasco.

.opposes photo ID (which isn't a GOP goal as much as it is a 'tactic') Supports Gay marriage...wants to work toward repealing the abortion law...

"I get into this race not making any promises"
 
2013-12-17 01:38:45 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I suppose if you're going to believe in a knockout game pandemic, sekrit muslins, Republican Free Market Jesus, a vast marxist conspiracy, false flag school shootings, a liberal plot to utterly disarm you, the UN overtaking the streets, FEMA reeducation camps, encouraged racism against whites, a hostile takeover of the White House by a non-citizen, a perfect version of American society that never existed, a homosexual agenda to thrust gay marriage upon you, lizard people, death panels, a 6,000 year old earth, a conspiracy to ferment terror about the climate, and a President that is both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time, then believing that there is a schism in the democratic party that will lead to its downfall wouldn't be that much of a jump for you.


A little off-topic, and a lot b-b-but Bush, but during the last administration, I really did believe in a President that was both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time. From certain angles, it looked like the guy could barely tie his own shoes, and yet he was terrifyingly successful at advancing a highly authoritarian and opaque form of Dominionist Republicanism. Watching the nation fall in line behind him was nothing short of extraordinary, and Congress seemed to exist for no other reason than to rubberstamp his policies.

The difference, I think, is that Bush had an extraordinary selection of incredibly smart strategists surrounding him at all times, none of whom really had the best interests of the country in mind. No one would accuse Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Cheney, or Rove of being idiots, and Rice was loaded with excellent on-paper qualifications. And while that pretty much admits that Bush was a puppet or a figurehead, the similar accusation leveled against Obama is all about Obama. It doesn't really bring up Biden, Kerry,  Carney, or Hagel as some kind of mastermind; it puts it all squarely on the President. So there's a parallel inconsistency.
 
2013-12-17 02:27:34 PM  

ssmithcsc: MrBallou: Also note that the Democrats don't have powerful shadowy figures controlling the factions from behind the scenes, with tons of money and huge dishonest propaganda machines, for their own nefarious purposes.

Otherwise, it's still nothing like the GOP's problems.

If you believe that you have obviously been asleep for the last 25 years.


Who are the liberal wealthy shadowy figures?

What huge dishonest propaganda machines are they using?

And what are their nefarious purposes?
 
2013-12-17 03:01:03 PM  

Gulper Eel: vpb: I think it's because the right would rather make crap up.

Come on by New York and listen to anti-vaxxer nutcase RFK Jr. and the rest of the neoluddite environmentalist left yammer about hydrofracking and insist that we have to close Indian Point because of the tsunami danger. Apparently a monster wave is going to materialize from out of nowhere, completely miss New York City (residents of the Rockaways beg to differ), and go 20+ miles inland, but this huge wave won't damage anything except the nuclear power plant that's one of the only structures in the area that actually was built with seismic precautions. This is what they actually believe. To hear them go on, the small faults that exist everywhere on earth are no different from the subduction zone off the coast of Japan. But hey, at least they're just isolated crazies and gibbering idiots like that would never wind up on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, would they?

There is enough scientific ignorance among northeastern leftists to fill every Pentecostal church south of the Mason-Dixon line.


hey thanks for pointing me to that completely sane and rational argument against nuclear power. informative.
 
2013-12-17 03:05:47 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I suppose if you're going to believe in a knockout game pandemic, sekrit muslins, Republican Free Market Jesus, a vast marxist conspiracy, false flag school shootings, a liberal plot to utterly disarm you, the UN overtaking the streets, FEMA reeducation camps, encouraged racism against whites, a hostile takeover of the White House by a non-citizen, a perfect version of American society that never existed, a homosexual agenda to thrust gay marriage upon you, lizard people, death panels, a 6,000 year old earth, a conspiracy to ferment terror about the climate, and a President that is both effective and utterly incompetent at the same time, then believing that there is a schism in the democratic party that will lead to its downfall wouldn't be that much of a jump for you.


That's approaching Pocket Ninja quality right there.
 
2013-12-17 03:13:08 PM  
HIllary Clinton and the pro-bank camp will win this battle. The Dems will vote for her like good little sheep, all the while calling the Republicans out for their greed and ties to the banks (which is true as well).

Hillary will give us a new NAFTA in terms of farking us over and her wealth will grow.
 
2013-12-17 03:13:27 PM  

ikanreed: The democrats have always been a divided party.  The closest they've ever come to being unified was getting together and saying "how about we don't let the republicans destroy the country?"


Yes, this is pretty much the truth, the whole truth, and nuttin' but the truth.

RWNJs like teh crazeee.  So much they try to get it elected.
 
2013-12-17 03:22:41 PM  

Barfmaker: I believe this "terrible schism" is what's called "dialogue" Subby, it's how adults do things.


Basically. I mean...that's not a schism. It's just different ideas being discussed and worked on.
 
2013-12-17 03:25:46 PM  

Nemo's Brother: HIllary Clinton and the pro-bank camp will win this battle. The Dems will vote for her like good little sheep, all the while calling the Republicans out for their greed and ties to the banks (which is true as well).

Hillary will give us a new NAFTA in terms of farking us over and her wealth will grow.


I thought she got rich from Whitewater and from forcing Vince Foster to write her into his will before he "killed himself". At least, that's what I heard.

At the risk of agreeing with derpers, I have to say that I am occasionally troubled by the fact that every person who comes to Washington as a Senator or Representative becomes a multi-millionaire by the end of his term, regardless of what he started with or which party he belongs to.
 
2013-12-17 04:02:22 PM  

RanDomino: A Cave Geek
Good...challenge Walker on his own turf

That's the problem. We shouldn't be trying to win that turf. We should be trying to destroy it. It's like how Thatcher said her greatest accomplishment was New Labour- it was taken as a joke, but it wasn't; she had successfully shifted the window of 'acceptable' ideas. Is that what we want?

...millionaire, check...no worries about running out of funds

This appears to be where the Democrats' thinking begins and ends. Never mind that they will still be outspent ten times over. Vinehout, on the other hand, would be able to motivate the huge activist base that will be doing the actual legwork, so that rather than knocking on doors and saying "hey vote against walker i guess" they'll be saying "Vote FOR Vinehout"- Which is going to be more convincing? But the Party hasn't learned its lesson from 2004, when we were defeated not by Bush but by Kerry.

...Former State Commerce Secretary? Check...knows WI businesses...

This is her only real qualification

Opposes Act 10, (Duh...only morons thought it was a good idea)

uh, actually, you might want to check your sources on that.

former school board member

The Madison school board seems to be a political playground for Madison liberals. See also the Manske fiasco.

.opposes photo ID (which isn't a GOP goal as much as it is a 'tactic') Supports Gay marriage...wants to work toward repealing the abortion law...

"I get into this race not making any promises"


hmmm.. Interesting take.  Guess I haven't been paying all that close attention.  Perhaps I should learn more.  Like I said, (I)....So I don't follow Democratic internal debates about who better represents the party all that much.  Until the primary season really kicks into gear it's kind of 'second fiddle' to other items...but I like your thought process....will definitely be paying closer attention.

Walker's been a blight on this state and the last thing we need is someone who's gonna be an 'also ran' against him.
 
2013-12-17 06:04:13 PM  

MrBallou: Nemo's Brother: HIllary Clinton and the pro-bank camp will win this battle. The Dems will vote for her like good little sheep, all the while calling the Republicans out for their greed and ties to the banks (which is true as well).

Hillary will give us a new NAFTA in terms of farking us over and her wealth will grow.

I thought she got rich from Whitewater and from forcing Vince Foster to write her into his will before he "killed himself". At least, that's what I heard.

At the risk of agreeing with derpers, I have to say that I am occasionally troubled by the fact that every person who comes to Washington as a Senator or Representative becomes a multi-millionaire by the end of his term, regardless of what he started with or which party he belongs to.


So...did you actually think they went there to serve their constituents?

Oh, my.
 
2013-12-17 06:49:27 PM  
A Cave Geek
Walker's been a blight on this state and the last thing we need is someone who's gonna be an 'also ran' against him.

Yeah, I have no faith in the ability of the Democratic Party, and especially not the DPW. Look at the 2012 primary. Once the Democrats hijacked control of the outrage via the recalls, the primary became a turf fight between the Milwaukee good-old-boys (Barrett) and the Madison good-old-boys (Falk). Within days after Vinehout announcing, this hit piece about her being anti-abortion (based on a single procedural vote taken out of context) got put in the papers by the Falk camp. All they care about is their own position within the party, acting apparently under the assumption that the political appointments (the real prize) will happen sooner or later. Even if they don't, the donations that pay their bills in the meanwhile will keep pouring in.
And that's without even mentioning their amazingly bad messaging in the entire primary season. Or the time and money spend trying to get Obama several more EVs he would only have a 3% chance of needing. or the Democrats' apparent decision to abandon the rural districts entirely. or their agreement to the Penokees mine in principle ('but responsibly').
There really is no hope via voting. That's why I say we need to be organizing like people were 60-120 years ago- based on economic pressure, community organization, unions under the control of the workers rather than well-connected bureaucrats, cooperatives, etc. Economic direct action. Screw politics! It's just a game for the rich, and for the rest of us the only winning move is not to play.
 
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