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(HotHardware)   Good: 7-seat SUV that goes 0-60 in under 5 seconds. Bad: It's electric, which means geek sites will try to write auto reviews, resulting in lines like "With the doors up, it actually kind of looks like a bunny rabbit"   (hothardware.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, SUV, electric cars, geeks  
•       •       •

3864 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Dec 2013 at 8:09 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-17 01:19:19 PM  

animal900: studebaker hoch: EV's can go from zero to buh-bye in the time it takes a gasoline engine to get into second gear.

I can shift my car into second gear before the race even starts.  Does that mean I win?

But as long as we're being cute, my stock, gasoline powered bike has reached 2nd gear in less than 3 seconds at around 70MPH.  Show me a Tesla that does that off the showroom floor.


Motorcycles have better acceleration than cars.  Film at 11.
 
2013-12-17 01:22:12 PM  

Hollie Maea: animal900: studebaker hoch: EV's can go from zero to buh-bye in the time it takes a gasoline engine to get into second gear.

I can shift my car into second gear before the race even starts.  Does that mean I win?

But as long as we're being cute, my stock, gasoline powered bike has reached 2nd gear in less than 3 seconds at around 70MPH.  Show me a Tesla that does that off the showroom floor.

Motorcycles have better acceleration than cars.  Film at 11.


He was comparing electric motors with gasoline engines, in case you missed it.
 
2013-12-17 01:27:12 PM  

animal900: He was comparing electric motors with gasoline engines, in case you missed it.


Well it's easy enough to find a quicker electric motorcycle, but I assume you would discount them since they are not "stock off the showroom floor".
 
2013-12-17 01:49:52 PM  

animal900: Hollie Maea: animal900: studebaker hoch: EV's can go from zero to buh-bye in the time it takes a gasoline engine to get into second gear.

I can shift my car into second gear before the race even starts.  Does that mean I win?

But as long as we're being cute, my stock, gasoline powered bike has reached 2nd gear in less than 3 seconds at around 70MPH.  Show me a Tesla that does that off the showroom floor.

Motorcycles have better acceleration than cars.  Film at 11.

He was comparing electric motors with gasoline engines, in case you missed it.


The point being that for a given power to weight ratio, electric will be quicker due to a much better torque curve.  Saying "well I have a gas motorcycle that is quicker than an electric 7 seat sedan" is true, but kind of pointless and in no ways refutes the original point.
 
2013-12-17 01:50:31 PM  

Hollie Maea: animal900: He was comparing electric motors with gasoline engines, in case you missed it.

Well it's easy enough to find a quicker electric motorcycle, but I assume you would discount them since they are not "stock off the showroom floor".


You're right, it is always possible to find a faster vehicle when you start including every one-of-a-kind barnyard oddity.

In the context of this discussion, either available Tesla model has acceleration figures comparable to its gasoline powered competition.  And as you begin stepping down the price ladder, the data is not even close.  A Nissan Leaf costs roughly the same as a Subaru WRX.  Still think the Leaf is going "zero to buh-bye" before the WRX is in second gear?  It was an uninformed opinion, and you should be embarrassed to be defending it.
 
2013-12-17 01:54:52 PM  

animal900: You're right, it is always possible to find a faster vehicle when you start including every one-of-a-kind barnyard oddity.


Don't be obtuse.  The point is not barnyard oddities, the point is that it's stupid to compare acceleration of motorcycles to that of sedans.
 
2013-12-17 01:56:43 PM  

animal900: studebaker hoch: EV's can go from zero to buh-bye in the time it takes a gasoline engine to get into second gear.

I can shift my car into second gear before the race even starts.  Does that mean I win?

But as long as we're being cute, my stock, gasoline powered bike has reached 2nd gear in less than 3 seconds at around 70MPH.  Show me a Tesla that does that off the showroom floor.


You aren't smart, are you?
 
2013-12-17 01:59:39 PM  

Smackledorfer: You aren't smart, are you?


Wait until he regales you with his "seconds per dollar" metric.
 
2013-12-17 02:22:51 PM  

Kit Fister: x23: Kit Fister: So, here's something that's been bothering me. A locomotive engine, that pulls multiple thousands if not tens of thousands of tons of freight, is driven by electric drive motors powered by diesel generators.  It's extremely fuel efficient.

If we can build locomotives that do things this way, why can't we build a similar system for semi tractors and pickup trucks?


city buses are frequently diesel electric series hybrids. like trains.

Seems to me, though, that we'd do a hell of a lot more to curb emissions by mandating over-the-road tractor-trailers be diesel electric hybrids, as well as any truck over, say, 6500 pounds.


Or just load most of that freight on actual trains.
 
2013-12-17 02:44:03 PM  
We need a modern-day Henry Ford to come up with a breakthrough that makes an effective electric vehicle affordable.
 
2013-12-17 02:57:21 PM  

studebaker hoch: We need a modern-day Henry Ford to come up with a breakthrough that makes an effective electric vehicle affordable.


Economies of scale will push down battery prices.  The drive train itself is cheaper for Electric.
 
2013-12-17 03:24:00 PM  

give me doughnuts: Kit Fister: x23: Kit Fister: So, here's something that's been bothering me. A locomotive engine, that pulls multiple thousands if not tens of thousands of tons of freight, is driven by electric drive motors powered by diesel generators.  It's extremely fuel efficient.

If we can build locomotives that do things this way, why can't we build a similar system for semi tractors and pickup trucks?


city buses are frequently diesel electric series hybrids. like trains.

Seems to me, though, that we'd do a hell of a lot more to curb emissions by mandating over-the-road tractor-trailers be diesel electric hybrids, as well as any truck over, say, 6500 pounds.

Or just load most of that freight on actual trains.


Well, that would be the *logical* thing. However, for from-railroad-to-business is still a point where the use of such vehicles is necessary, and hard to get a locomotive to run through the pasture to deliver hay or haul steel to my shop, as much as I'd love that, leaving me with a pickup.
 
2013-12-17 03:28:59 PM  
TFA: "According to the L.A. Times, the car will cost somewhere in the $40,000 range and should have roughly a 200-mile range."


farm4.staticflickr.com

If I'm buying a 7-seater, I'm buying it to take my family or a group of friends more than 200 miles away. And almost always to places that won't have battery swap stations in the foreseeable future.

If you're a weekend soccer mom around town this starts to look like a decent compromise, but looking at the styling that doesn't seem to be their target market.
 
2013-12-17 03:37:40 PM  

Kit Fister: give me doughnuts: Kit Fister: x23: Kit Fister: So, here's something that's been bothering me. A locomotive engine, that pulls multiple thousands if not tens of thousands of tons of freight, is driven by electric drive motors powered by diesel generators.  It's extremely fuel efficient.

If we can build locomotives that do things this way, why can't we build a similar system for semi tractors and pickup trucks?


city buses are frequently diesel electric series hybrids. like trains.

Seems to me, though, that we'd do a hell of a lot more to curb emissions by mandating over-the-road tractor-trailers be diesel electric hybrids, as well as any truck over, say, 6500 pounds.

Or just load most of that freight on actual trains.

Well, that would be the *logical* thing. However, for from-railroad-to-business is still a point where the use of such vehicles is necessary, and hard to get a locomotive to run through the pasture to deliver hay or haul steel to my shop, as much as I'd love that, leaving me with a pickup.


Sure, but if a manufacturer is sending 14 truck-loads of shirts to a Wal-Mart distribution warehouse, I'd rather see them go like this:


cdn.c.photoshelter.com
than behind a semi.
 
2013-12-17 03:54:04 PM  

give me doughnuts: Kit Fister: give me doughnuts: Kit Fister: x23: Kit Fister: So, here's something that's been bothering me. A locomotive engine, that pulls multiple thousands if not tens of thousands of tons of freight, is driven by electric drive motors powered by diesel generators.  It's extremely fuel efficient.

If we can build locomotives that do things this way, why can't we build a similar system for semi tractors and pickup trucks?


city buses are frequently diesel electric series hybrids. like trains.

Seems to me, though, that we'd do a hell of a lot more to curb emissions by mandating over-the-road tractor-trailers be diesel electric hybrids, as well as any truck over, say, 6500 pounds.

Or just load most of that freight on actual trains.

Well, that would be the *logical* thing. However, for from-railroad-to-business is still a point where the use of such vehicles is necessary, and hard to get a locomotive to run through the pasture to deliver hay or haul steel to my shop, as much as I'd love that, leaving me with a pickup.

Sure, but if a manufacturer is sending 14 truck-loads of shirts to a Wal-Mart distribution warehouse, I'd rather see them go like this:


[cdn.c.photoshelter.com image 850x610]
than behind a semi.


I don't think I said otherwise. :)
 
2013-12-17 04:04:13 PM  

spmkk: TFA: "According to the L.A. Times, the car will cost somewhere in the $40,000 range and should have roughly a 200-mile range."


[farm4.staticflickr.com image 250x272]

If I'm buying a 7-seater, I'm buying it to take my family or a group of friends more than 200 miles away. And almost always to places that won't have battery swap stations in the foreseeable future.

If you're a weekend soccer mom around town this starts to look like a decent compromise, but looking at the styling that doesn't seem to be their target market.


First of all, the article was wrong about the range.  It will be 250 miles not 200.  As far as battery swap stations go, what's wrong with stopping for 20 minutes to charge while you eat after driving for 4 hours?
 
2013-12-17 04:22:19 PM  

spmkk: If you're a weekend soccer mom around town...


Soooo.... 10% of current SUV drivers... with most of the other 90% being people who drive it as a one-person commuter vehicle on the highway five days a week to and from their office job.

Somehow I think Tesla has thought their cunning plan through rather well.
 
2013-12-17 04:50:53 PM  

spmkk: If I'm buying a 7-seater, I'm buying it to take my family or a group of friends more than 200 miles away. And almost always to places that won't have battery swap stations in the foreseeable future.


Well they lie about the seating capacity anyway. My wifes mini cooper claims to sit 4. It will, if the backseat passengers are double amputees.
 
2013-12-17 05:02:40 PM  

Hollie Maea: "spmkk: TFA: "According to the L.A. Times, the car will cost somewhere in the $40,000 range and should have roughly a 200-mile range."


[farm4.staticflickr.com image 250x272]

If I'm buying a 7-seater, I'm buying it to take my family or a group of friends more than 200 miles away. And almost always to places that won't have battery swap stations in the foreseeable future.

If you're a weekend soccer mom around town this starts to look like a decent compromise, but looking at the styling that doesn't seem to be their target market.

First of all, the article was wrong about the range.  It will be 250 miles not 200.  As far as battery swap stations go, what's wrong with stopping for 20 minutes to charge while you eat after driving for 4 hours?"



It's actually only a couple of minutes. And nothing...except they don't exist yet. When they do, their roll-out will be slow, spotty, and will heavily favor the beaten path (this works for some people, not for me). Not to mention, the expected service cost of swapping out a battery will be about that of a tank of gas, so what are you gaining?

OTOH, if you're suggesting that a Tesla gets 200-250 miles on a charge that only takes 20 minutes to replenish, I'd go back and check your math. (Charging stations deliver 10-20 kW, not 90+.)
 
2013-12-17 06:01:26 PM  

SDRR: loser0: 

What is the reason no one puts gullwings on mainstream cars? I've been assuming it's cost, but I've been wrong before. Could be safety, or just people banging their heads on them.

I think part of it is they are difficult to get out of if you land on your lid.


That, and the additional access to seats versus what you get from boring rolling-on-a-track doors (as seen on vans, minivans, and... what metric prefix goes in front of the "van" for a Mazda 5?  Micro?  Nano?) probably isn't enough to outweigh the extra cost of the coolness.

/I passed a Tesla on the way to town just to buy gas -- the universe is mocking me

No, no, the universe mocking you happens when you're on the way to town just to buy gas, run out of gas before you get there, and  then the Tesla passes you.
 
2013-12-17 06:50:27 PM  
I kind of want

But I have to upgrade the house wiring first
 
2013-12-17 06:52:31 PM  

spmkk: If I'm buying a 7-seater, I'm buying it to take my family or a group of friends more than 200 miles away.


Then rent a vehicle, unless you are among the 0.001% for whom this is a common activity. (In which case, buy a Suburban or whatever.)
 
2013-12-17 07:14:19 PM  

spmkk: Charging stations deliver 10-20 kW, not 90+


That's home charging.  The Superchargers (which are being implemented at a very fast rate...they opened 5 locations just last week) charge at 120kW, and they are currently testing to raise that to 133kW.
 
2013-12-17 07:16:47 PM  

spmkk: It's actually only a couple of minutes. And nothing...except they don't exist yet.


Right, the 20 minutes is for the Supercharger, not the battery swap.  I don't expect to see many battery swap stations any time soon.  But Superchargers are popping up like mushrooms after a rain.
 
2013-12-17 09:41:10 PM  

Hollie Maea: "The Superchargers (which are being implemented at a very fast rate...they opened 5 locations just last week) charge at 120kW, and they are currently testing to raise that to 133kW."


Hmm. I actually was not on top of that. Good to know - thanks.
 
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