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(Guardian)   Snowden offers to throw the America under the bus to get the fark out of Russia   ( ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Russia, transit hub, personal privacy, optical fiber cable  
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7723 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2013 at 8:45 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-12-17 05:52:14 PM  

grimlock1972: Brosef Stalin: Need to start giving Snowden threads a hero tag to be fair.Here's a guy who has made massive self sacrifices to do the right thing in the interests of the general public and he ends up persecuted and stateless for it.I hope he gets permanent asylum somewhere.

NO he did not. He committed theft for his own purposes the exposed sensitive government programs in my book that is treason.   Yes he revealed the Government was spying on us all but the ends do not justify the means.

If he had stayed and faced trial i might think better of him but he ran and is hiding behind more of the files he stole.

Snowden is a thief, Traitor and a coward and definitely not a hero.

2013-12-17 06:31:14 PM  

kindms: And Remember the very same folks who are saying he got away with everything and the kitchen sink etc etc etc and they don't know what he took yadda yadda yadda are the VERY SAME PEOPLE telling the American People that it is IMPOSSIBLE for rouge employees to abuse the system, because EVERYTHING IS %100 audit traced. They actually want us to believe that all the contractors (which Snowden was) and all the NSA employees have everything and anything watched to make sure they aren't abusing the system but they can't tell what Snowden took.

They are so full of crap it isn't even funny.

What a rouge employee might look like:
2013-12-17 06:34:34 PM  

R.A.Danny: Snowden also made an oath. He is in fact a criminal. Like I said, I am glad he did what he did, but this isn't whistleblowing. Whistleblowing is taking the findings and reporting them to law enforcement, not wikileaks.
2013-12-17 06:35:24 PM  

H31N0US: There's going to be a tremendous amount of derp in this thread, but to be honest, I doubt Snowden knows as much as he claims, and wouldn't really be that useful anyway.

The fact that he's still alive in Russia (i.e. not killed by Putin after being run through a mind-sifter) pretty  much proves that.
2013-12-17 08:45:07 PM  
What we see with all these NSA programs and technologies is a brilliantly conceived notion put forward by someone with a strong vision for the role of technology - "we are able to track any cell phone, follow any email trail, capture any phone conversation using the same technologies system administrators use to keep modern technology operating."

...sold by managers to their superiors - "we can track anything anywhere with just a little more funding and a crack team of experts."

...expanded by overfunding and overzealous congresspeople - "we want to track all the foreign things! Burn this pile of DHS moneys!"

...twisted by tech salesmen - "we can give you the ability to track everything everywhere twice over if you give us that pile of burning moneys!"

...and implemented by contract companies with the lowest bids - "get these systems in already! We won't get our bonus piece of that pile of moneys if you're not done today!"

...poorly - "What? Security settings? Pffft, merge it into that unconfigured active directory. We can trust the government to lock it down!"

...written off as a job well done about 2 years too early - "This system is perfectly secure and safe. No one can do things they shouldn't do!"

...and instead of hiring well vetted experts as government employees - "The government is too big! Private industry does everything better and cheaper!"'s given to contractors to manage, who possess technical talent but little sense - "Uh, I dunno, we get bonuses for finding stuff, track ALL THE THINGS!"

...who finally subcontract the actual work at exorbitant rates to another company who doesn't vet their employees - "OMG we're tracking all the things?!" of whom infiltrates the subcontracted company, copies all the things, and the way to get all the things, and then gives all of that to anyone who he thinks will care, starting with the FSB Wikileaks. All along the way there are assumptions that the end users will be competent enough not to overstep their legal ability instead of strict controls, because to the person operating this system the difference between doing their job and violating the Constitution is a matter of a misplaced click. The interesting thing here is that, although there were oversteps in the collection, there's not a lot of evidence that it was actually abused. Most of the managers of that program should be fired and prosecuted, but the rank and file seemed to know the difference between what was right and wrong. Better controls and more talent would have made all the difference.

We have to empower the people who do our spying with the power to do that spying, and like the sysadmin whose job it is to only look at the things they need to to do their job despite having access to much, much more, we count on those doing our spying to limit themselves to what they're supposed to be looking at. Ultimately, the program overstepped constitutional bounds (likely because of wildly overzealous middle managers). Snowden revealed that, but in a way that damaged the capability and shared that capability with other nations who have fewer compunctions about spying on their own citizens. The Russian FSB and Chinese security groups were the biggest winners in this deal; they have everything Snowden grabbed, and the US can't even figure out what all of that was thanks to lowest bidder contractors building these things. Further, he gave them the capability to reproduce these programs themselves. Anyone who doubts that has little understanding of the technologies involved... it doesn't matter if he didn't physically hand it to them, they had it before he checked into his hotel in Shanghai.

That last little piece is why ol' Snowy is a traitor, and not a marginally competent whistleblower.
2013-12-18 12:36:43 AM  
He doesn't know shiat.

And now he's Russia's permanent biatch until Putin decides we have something he wants. Might as well hammer your scrotum to Moscow dude. Enjoy.
2013-12-18 05:44:17 AM  

PsiChick: WhiskeyBoy: If the guy was truly a whistle-blower, he would have protection under the Whistleblower Protection Act.

You're so adorably naive.

And you as well if you think lawyers wouldn't line up to defend him.  If he was only just a whistleblower.  Sad fact is, he isn't.
This is why you are farkied in a nice share of red.  Impossible to reason with.
2013-12-18 08:40:09 AM  

Nemo's Brother: ManateeGag: YixilTesiphon: Publikwerks: First off, "The Government got away with Iraq for a decade. " What are you referring to? Because I think the 2006 and 2008 elections show it didn't get away with Iraq. Those in power were expunged.

And the Iraq war continued.

you can't just STOP a war.  it's a lot more complex than that.

1)We did in Nam.
2)6 years later

The difference is that we won the war in Iraq. The guerrilla insurgency and occupation afterwards were what people didn't like. But withdrawing from a occupation is far diffrent than retreating from a losing battle like Vietnam.
2013-12-18 01:46:29 PM  

WhiskeyBoy: PsiChick: WhiskeyBoy: If the guy was truly a whistle-blower, he would have protection under the Whistleblower Protection Act.

You're so adorably naive.

And you as well if you think lawyers wouldn't line up to defend him.  If he was only just a whistleblower.  Sad fact is, he isn't.
This is why you are farkied in a nice share shade of red.  Impossible to reason with.

Oh, lawyers might line up to defend him, but whistleblowers haven't gotten protection since...oh, probably before 9/11, no matter what they did. And it doesn't help that the government can smack the 'terrorist' label on anyone they want--the Whistleblower Protection Act is one you can get around fairly easily if you're willing to lie.
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