If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   Snowden offers to throw the America under the bus to get the fark out of Russia   (theguardian.com) divider line 159
    More: Obvious, Russia, transit hub, personal privacy, optical fiber cable  
•       •       •

7705 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2013 at 8:45 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



159 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-12-17 09:46:40 AM  

kindms: Interesting the number of Americans in this thread that feel their government would simply kill a fellow citizen without due process of law. Many seem surprised he hasn't been killed by his own country yet and even suggest it is only a matter of time.

What does that say about our country ?


It suggests that we've lost the high road. We are no longer the America that I took such pride in as a child.
 
2013-12-17 09:47:19 AM  

BullBearMS: It's sweet that so many people want to make this about all about Snowden. To be clear, Snowden did not authorize our Government to undertake illegal unconstitutional actions.

However, there are others who need to be held accountable.

How about the liars in our Government?

When the House of Representatives recently considered an amendment that would have dismantled the NSA's bulk phone records collection program, the White House swiftly condemned the measure. But only five years ago, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. was part of a group of legislators that supported substantial changes to NSA surveillance programs. Here are some of the proposals the president co-sponsored as a senator.

As a senator, Obama claimed that he wanted to limit bulk records collection.

As a senator, Obama claimed that he wanted to require government analysts to get court approval before accessing incidentally collected American data.


...snip...

You'd think the alternative party would take up the gauntlet then. Rather than continuing to rail against the same things that marginalize all of the voters looking for an alternative to the current Democratic party.

At this point I'd take a convincing lie over the hypocrisy of claiming to want "smaller government" while pushing for more laws about same-sex marriage, family planning, intoxicants, and voter restrictions.
 
2013-12-17 09:48:22 AM  

Pangea: BullBearMS: It's sweet that so many people want to make this about all about Snowden. To be clear, Snowden did not authorize our Government to undertake illegal unconstitutional actions.

However, there are others who need to be held accountable.

How about the liars in our Government?

When the House of Representatives recently considered an amendment that would have dismantled the NSA's bulk phone records collection program, the White House swiftly condemned the measure. But only five years ago, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. was part of a group of legislators that supported substantial changes to NSA surveillance programs. Here are some of the proposals the president co-sponsored as a senator.

As a senator, Obama claimed that he wanted to limit bulk records collection.

As a senator, Obama claimed that he wanted to require government analysts to get court approval before accessing incidentally collected American data.

...snip...

You'd think the alternative party would take up the gauntlet then. Rather than continuing to rail against the same things that marginalize all of the voters looking for an alternative to the current Democratic party.

At this point I'd take a convincing lie over the hypocrisy of claiming to want "smaller government" while pushing for more laws about same-sex marriage, family planning, intoxicants, and voter restrictions.


Did you vote for Gary Johnson? I did.
 
2013-12-17 09:49:16 AM  

Norfolking Chance: markfara: That's treason or something.

It's only treason if the USA is at war with Brazil.


Stop bringing facts to a tard fight.
 
2013-12-17 09:50:01 AM  

Publikwerks: fasahd: Natalie Plumes' outing was bad, Bad Bush (smacks with newspaper) Wikileaks were careless with disregard for individuals as well. Snowden has been very cautious in this regard and I commend him. You really believe what you just said? Those things should stay in the dark in the free democracy we supposedly live in?

Listen, I said the NSA spying on US citizens is a no-no, and if Snowden had revealed just that, I would say he is a hero. However, I want our government spying on foreign governments. They are spying on us, and if they can't secure the cell phones of their leaders, well, that's on them.

But here's the deal - if what he did was justified, why run? If he feels that the government was acting against the best interests of the US people, then come back and face a jury of his peers. Let us decide. Otherwise, he is a fugative, and I will regard him as a coward.


Lyndon Johnson signed the freedom of information act. The internet has made it a reality. Information not only needs to be shared, It yearns to be free. Fine. Spy on world leaders. But we all want to know what they said so make sure to post in on TMz. Why is anything in the dark? Information yearns to be free. Just ask a virus trying to get out of a petri dish at the CDC. Someone posted comments by Elsberg, outer of the pentagon papers that eloquently expressed why he was able and needed to stay in the staes to help end the vietnam war and had access to the press in the free America we lived in at the time but he is totallly with Snowden in that in this day in age the man was left with no choice and would be in solitary like sirhan sirhan.
/meh
 
2013-12-17 09:51:29 AM  

kindms: Interesting the number of Americans in this thread that feel their government would simply kill a fellow citizen without due process of law. Many seem surprised he hasn't been killed by his own country yet and even suggest it is only a matter of time.

What does that say about our country ?


That we read the newspapers?

America has killed Americans without due process of law. We passed laws allowing citizens to be put into military prisons without charges or a trial as well.
 
2013-12-17 09:57:23 AM  

antisocialworker: Seriously, how is this guy not dead?

World's only superpower, my ass.


Choosing not to do something is not the same as being unable to do something.

Since he is in Russia killing him would create more problems than it solves.
 
2013-12-17 09:58:24 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Good luck getting through the airspace needed to get their Snowden


Came here to say this. If the US finds out which flight he is on the odds of that plane landing in the intended place are indistinguishable from zero.
 
2013-12-17 09:59:58 AM  

Pangea: You'd think the alternative party would take up the gauntlet then. Rather than continuing to rail against the same things that marginalize all of the voters looking for an alternative to the current Democratic party.


The Republicans weren't the ones who claimed to oppose this, if you remember. The were the ones claiming we needed to do this, because terrorism.

Look. We were lied to. Systematically.

Now are we going to find a party that doesn't systematically lie to us, or are we going to get rid of the current party leadership?
 
2013-12-17 10:00:28 AM  

SpectroBoy: IdBeCrazyIf: Good luck getting through the airspace needed to get their Snowden

Came here to say this. If the US finds out which flight he is on the odds of that plane landing in the intended place are indistinguishable from zero.


At the same time, it's not like that information hasn't been disseminated to third parties in the event of an untimely death.
 
2013-12-17 10:05:18 AM  

BullBearMS: Pangea: You'd think the alternative party would take up the gauntlet then. Rather than continuing to rail against the same things that marginalize all of the voters looking for an alternative to the current Democratic party.

The Republicans weren't the ones who claimed to oppose this, if you remember. The were the ones claiming we needed to do this, because terrorism.

Look. We were lied to. Systematically.

Now are we going to find a party that doesn't systematically lie to us, or are we going to get rid of the current party leadership?


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. We're bound to get fooled again
 
2013-12-17 10:05:53 AM  

BullBearMS: kindms: Interesting the number of Americans in this thread that feel their government would simply kill a fellow citizen without due process of law. Many seem surprised he hasn't been killed by his own country yet and even suggest it is only a matter of time.

What does that say about our country ?

That we read the newspapers?

America has killed Americans without due process of law. We passed laws allowing citizens to be put into military prisons without charges or a trial as well.


Yes. And it was more a rhetorical question.

The idea that a majority of Americans see their government in such a light speaks volumes. The veil of "Truth, Justice and the American Way" has been forever eroded.
 
2013-12-17 10:08:06 AM  

pxlboy: BullBearMS: Here's somebody who needs to be prosecuted, but we hardly talk about him: The Director Of National Intelligence, General James Clapper.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner Jr., the original author of the Patriot Act, says Director of National Intelligence James Clapper should be prosecuted for lying to Congress.

"Lying to Congress is a federal offense, and Clapper ought to be fired and prosecuted for it," the Wisconsin Republican said in an interview with The Hill.

"The only way laws are effective is if they're enforced," Sensenbrenner said. "If it's a criminal offense - and I believe Mr. Clapper has committed a criminal offense - then the Justice Department ought to do its job."

Shawn Turner, a spokesman for Clapper, declined to comment.

Sensenbrenner also said President Obama should fire Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander in the wake of the revelations about the spying programs.

The guy committed a felony with cameras running. He later admitted he had done so. Yet he wasn't even fired, much less prosecuted.

Rules are only for the little people.


The current administration seems to think that rules only apply to whistle blowers.

If you recall, nobody who ordered, oversaw, or engaged in torture was ever prosecuted by the Justice Department.

However, the whistle blower who put an end to America's torture regime is in prison right the fark now.
 
2013-12-17 10:13:38 AM  

Publikwerks: YixilTesiphon: Publikwerks: If he feels that the government was acting against the best interests of the US people, then come back and face a jury of his peers the government he has revealed follows no rules and answers to no one.

Yeah...

1. The very fact that we are here debating without fear of being arrested and intimidated shows that our government, while easily corruptible, still answers to the people.
2.  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/17/judge-deals-nsa-defeat-on- b ulk-phone-collection/ - Shows that the legal chanels also still work.
3. The Government knows it can only get away with things when there is not alot of attention. You think Snowden's trial wouldn't get alot of attention?


BWHAHHAHA!! That's a good one.

Congressional Approval Rate: ~10%
Congressional Reelection Rate: <90%
 
2013-12-17 10:19:28 AM  

Tchernobog: antisocialworker: Seriously, how is this guy not dead?
World's only superpower, my ass.
Certainly the government wouldn't look suspicious if he turned up dead. Nope. Plus he still has a crapton of documents that I'm sure would be dumped online from multiple sources if he turned up dead.


Why do I think all of this is funny as fark? This one little nerd put the NSA on the defensive. The farking NSA. I hope he doesn't get killed.

i164.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-17 10:22:39 AM  

cryinoutloud: Why do I think all of this is funny as fark? This one little nerd put the NSA on the defensive. The farking NSA. I hope he doesn't get killed.


While still feeling that he can and should be prosecuted, I agree.
 
2013-12-17 10:22:42 AM  
I'd say that the tag for this headline is correct.
Given the choice between terminal cold and lousy food, or a tropical paradise, I think I'd have to go with paradise.
 
2013-12-17 10:28:40 AM  

fasahd: WhiskeyBoy: He stole a shiat-ton of classified documents, many of which have nothing to do with the US spying on your phone/email usage, and many of which he was NOT granted access to, he had to circumvent security settings to access them.

I'm still on his team but...citation.jpg?


http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/26/20197183-how-snow de n-did-it

His access was the circumvention.  He used his sysadmin privileges to access data and servers he had no reason to be accessing.  It's not "hacking", it's logging in as your admin account to get to things that your regular user account cannot access.
 
2013-12-17 10:31:23 AM  

pxlboy: SpectroBoy: IdBeCrazyIf: Good luck getting through the airspace needed to get their Snowden

Came here to say this. If the US finds out which flight he is on the odds of that plane landing in the intended place are indistinguishable from zero.

At the same time, it's not like that information hasn't been disseminated to third parties in the event of an untimely death.


That's why they want him alive.

"Mr Snowden... We understand you have failsafes in place. Now that we have you in custody I would like to assure you that it is in your own best self interest that they never activate. If those items are released we can make your lifetime of incarceration much less pleasant than it currently is. For example, it appears you are fond of your blanket pillow, and water-free lungs. . . "


Don't get me wrong, I am sort of 51% in Snowden's camp. But I am under no delusion that our government will play this by the rule of law.
 
2013-12-17 10:34:36 AM  

WhiskeyBoy: fasahd: WhiskeyBoy: He stole a shiat-ton of classified documents, many of which have nothing to do with the US spying on your phone/email usage, and many of which he was NOT granted access to, he had to circumvent security settings to access them.

I'm still on his team but...citation.jpg?

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/26/20197183-how-snow de n-did-it

His access was the circumvention.  He used his sysadmin privileges to access data and servers he had no reason to be accessing.  It's not "hacking", it's logging in as your admin account to get to things that your regular user account cannot access.


All that shows is that even years after Manning, the NSA had not put any sort of reliable access controls into place.

Basically, they are incompetent at their jobs.

"They've spent hundreds and hundreds of man-hours trying to reconstruct everything he has gotten, and they still don't know all of what he took," a senior administration official said. "I know that seems crazy, but everything with this is crazy."

That Mr. Snowden was so expertly able to exploit blind spots in the systems of America's most secretive spy agency illustrates how far computer security still lagged years after President Obama ordered standards tightened after the WikiLeaks revelations of 2010.
 
2013-12-17 10:42:20 AM  

Tchernobog: antisocialworker: Seriously, how is this guy not dead?

World's only superpower, my ass.

Certainly the government wouldn't look suspicious if he turned up dead. Nope. Plus he still has a crapton of documents that I'm sure would be dumped online from multiple sources if he turned up dead.


Also, its unlikely USA has a clue where he is. "Somewhere in Moscow" isn't really enough.
 
2013-12-17 10:46:02 AM  

R.A.Danny: cryinoutloud: Why do I think all of this is funny as fark? This one little nerd put the NSA on the defensive. The farking NSA. I hope he doesn't get killed.

While still feeling that he can and should be prosecuted, I agree.


I do not understand how anyone cannot consider Snowden a hero. If we lived in a society that had rule of law and a government not hell bent on becoming Orwell's worst nightmare, then yes, prosecute.

As it stands, that's not the case.
 
2013-12-17 10:46:37 AM  

BullBearMS: pxlboy: BullBearMS: Here's somebody who needs to be prosecuted, but we hardly talk about him: The Director Of National Intelligence, General James Clapper.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner Jr., the original author of the Patriot Act, says Director of National Intelligence James Clapper should be prosecuted for lying to Congress.

"Lying to Congress is a federal offense, and Clapper ought to be fired and prosecuted for it," the Wisconsin Republican said in an interview with The Hill.

"The only way laws are effective is if they're enforced," Sensenbrenner said. "If it's a criminal offense - and I believe Mr. Clapper has committed a criminal offense - then the Justice Department ought to do its job."

Shawn Turner, a spokesman for Clapper, declined to comment.

Sensenbrenner also said President Obama should fire Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander in the wake of the revelations about the spying programs.

The guy committed a felony with cameras running. He later admitted he had done so. Yet he wasn't even fired, much less prosecuted.

Rules are only for the little people.

The current administration seems to think that rules only apply to whistle blowers.

If you recall, nobody who ordered, oversaw, or engaged in torture was ever prosecuted by the Justice Department.

However, the whistle blower who put an end to America's torture regime is in prison right the fark now.


And it's farking criminal.

We had something similarly idiotic happen at work:

There are 4 bench techs in our dept. One of them is the boss's son who stole some things out of the parts room.

So, rather than fire or reprimand him, the room is locked up and now we have to get someone to open the room and justify any parts we need to someone who can't even build a computer.

Rules are for the rest of us.

Ugh.
 
2013-12-17 10:53:28 AM  
This man will come to a no good end.
 
2013-12-17 10:53:43 AM  

mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: cryinoutloud: Why do I think all of this is funny as fark? This one little nerd put the NSA on the defensive. The farking NSA. I hope he doesn't get killed.

While still feeling that he can and should be prosecuted, I agree.

I do not understand how anyone cannot consider Snowden a hero. If we lived in a society that had rule of law and a government not hell bent on becoming Orwell's worst nightmare, then yes, prosecute.

As it stands, that's not the case.


There is no doubt that he broke the law. I'm glad he broke the law, but that is of no legal consequence.
 
2013-12-17 10:58:46 AM  

fasahd: Publikwerks: fasahd: Natalie Plumes' outing was bad, Bad Bush (smacks with newspaper) Wikileaks were careless with disregard for individuals as well. Snowden has been very cautious in this regard and I commend him. You really believe what you just said? Those things should stay in the dark in the free democracy we supposedly live in?

Listen, I said the NSA spying on US citizens is a no-no, and if Snowden had revealed just that, I would say he is a hero. However, I want our government spying on foreign governments. They are spying on us, and if they can't secure the cell phones of their leaders, well, that's on them.

But here's the deal - if what he did was justified, why run? If he feels that the government was acting against the best interests of the US people, then come back and face a jury of his peers. Let us decide. Otherwise, he is a fugative, and I will regard him as a coward.

Lyndon Johnson signed the freedom of information act. The internet has made it a reality. Information not only needs to be shared, It yearns to be free. Fine. Spy on world leaders. But we all want to know what they said so make sure to post in on TMz. Why is anything in the dark? Information yearns to be free. Just ask a virus trying to get out of a petri dish at the CDC. Someone posted comments by Elsberg, outer of the pentagon papers that eloquently expressed why he was able and needed to stay in the staes to help end the vietnam war and had access to the press in the free America we lived in at the time but he is totallly with Snowden in that in this day in age the man was left with no choice and would be in solitary like sirhan sirhan.
/meh


If information yearns to be free, please post your full name, home address, dob and SSN.
 
2013-12-17 11:00:11 AM  

kindms: The idea that a majority of Americans see their government in such a light speaks volumes. The veil of "Truth, Justice and the American Way" has been forever eroded.


I disagree about the word "forever". The very fact that we're aware of it is the first step toward correcting it. We are not hopeless. We are not permanently disgraced. We can redeem ourselves in the world's eyes, and most importantly our own eyes and hearts, and regain our status as a beacon of freedom to the world. But we have to want it and strive for it. Could it happen? Absolutely. Will it? I don't know. Not with our current leadership. I do have a lot more faith in the new generation than I have in my own. If they don't? Revolution's coming...
 
2013-12-17 11:04:58 AM  

WhiskeyBoy: fasahd: WhiskeyBoy: He stole a shiat-ton of classified documents, many of which have nothing to do with the US spying on your phone/email usage, and many of which he was NOT granted access to, he had to circumvent security settings to access them.

I'm still on his team but...citation.jpg?

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/26/20197183-how-snow de n-did-it

His access was the circumvention.  He used his sysadmin privileges to access data and servers he had no reason to be accessing.  It's not "hacking", it's logging in as your admin account to get to things that your regular user account cannot access.


Thanks for 'Manning' up. (Pun intended) in your reply. I don't find access that was granted as being intrusive and we can agree to dissagree. I still think that if Kevin Mitnick can get hired to a govt post than the same should be afforded to him. Who better to serve our country than an honest American. Ombudsman. The NSA needs a new face to represent them and we could all have a very merry christmas. Look at what Francis has done for the Catholic church in a short time.

/disclaimer: I've worn at times a tinfoil hat over the 911 conspiracy theory. who can you really trust? I took Noam Chompsky's word that it was BS because I think he is intelligent enough to parse the data, and above being bought. I'd like to see Edward Snownen elevated to that level. But it would be nice to hear him speak in public. Perhaps he's just a dufus that stole shiat. I keep an open mind. I still think his outing was beneficial to the planet.
 
2013-12-17 11:07:59 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Publikwerks: YixilTesiphon: Publikwerks: If he feels that the government was acting against the best interests of the US people, then come back and face a jury of his peers the government he has revealed follows no rules and answers to no one.

Yeah...

1. The very fact that we are here debating without fear of being arrested and intimidated shows that our government, while easily corruptible, still answers to the people.
I'd like us to stop progress towards an unanswerable police state before the Stasi knocks on my door.
2.  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/17/judge-deals-nsa-defeat-on- b ulk-phone-collection/ - Shows that the legal chanels also still work.
And Guantanamo shows they don't.
3. The Government knows it can only get away with things when there is not alot of attention. You think Snowden's trial wouldn't get alot of attention?
The Government got away with Iraq for a decade.


First off, "The Government got away with Iraq for a decade. " What are you referring to? Because I think the 2006 and 2008 elections show it didn't get away with Iraq. Those in power were expunged.

And Snowden is a non-combatant and a US citizen, he would be affording far more rights than a non-uniformed combatant in a war zone.

I think Snowden needs to come back for many reasons.
1. He should stand up for what he did, bad and good, and face his peers.
2. That by hiding and only thinking of himself, it will have a chilling effect on future whistleblowers. So you want to right a wrong? I hope you like living abroad.
 
2013-12-17 11:08:25 AM  

BullBearMS: WhiskeyBoy: fasahd: WhiskeyBoy: He stole a shiat-ton of classified documents, many of which have nothing to do with the US spying on your phone/email usage, and many of which he was NOT granted access to, he had to circumvent security settings to access them.

I'm still on his team but...citation.jpg?

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/26/20197183-how-snow de n-did-it

His access was the circumvention.  He used his sysadmin privileges to access data and servers he had no reason to be accessing.  It's not "hacking", it's logging in as your admin account to get to things that your regular user account cannot access.

All that shows is that even years after Manning, the NSA had not put any sort of reliable access controls into place.

Basically, they are incompetent at their jobs.

"They've spent hundreds and hundreds of man-hours trying to reconstruct everything he has gotten, and they still don't know all of what he took," a senior administration official said. "I know that seems crazy, but everything with this is crazy."

That Mr. Snowden was so expertly able to exploit blind spots in the systems of America's most secretive spy agency illustrates how far computer security still lagged years after President Obama ordered standards tightened after the WikiLeaks revelations of 2010.


And Remember the very same folks who are saying he got away with everything and the kitchen sink etc etc etc and they don't know what he took yadda yadda yadda are the VERY SAME PEOPLE telling the American People that it is IMPOSSIBLE for rouge employees to abuse the system, because EVERYTHING IS %100 audit traced. They actually want us to believe that all the contractors (which Snowden was) and all the NSA employees have everything and anything watched to make sure they aren't abusing the system but they can't tell what Snowden took.

They are so full of crap it isn't even funny.
 
2013-12-17 11:21:15 AM  

Publikwerks: First off, "The Government got away with Iraq for a decade. " What are you referring to? Because I think the 2006 and 2008 elections show it didn't get away with Iraq. Those in power were expunged.


And the Iraq war continued.
 
2013-12-17 11:24:32 AM  

H31N0US: I doubt Snowden knows as much as he claims, and wouldn't really be that useful anyway.


Then why ...

Why if they know his info is harmless and he has nothing more to show.....

... Why are they so scared of him ?
 
2013-12-17 11:27:06 AM  

R.A.Danny: There is no doubt that he broke the law. I'm glad he broke the law, but that is of no legal consequence.


I guess that's the point. The people who will be prosecuting him have no legal consequences to anything they do.
 
2013-12-17 11:28:10 AM  

mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: There is no doubt that he broke the law. I'm glad he broke the law, but that is of no legal consequence.

I guess that's the point. The people who will be prosecuting him have no legal consequences to anything they do.


They make the rules. :/
 
2013-12-17 11:40:45 AM  

R.A.Danny: They make the rules. :/


Only way to win is not play by them. Snowden didn't and I believe his was a morally defensible action.
 
2013-12-17 11:40:53 AM  

mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: There is no doubt that he broke the law. I'm glad he broke the law, but that is of no legal consequence.

I guess that's the point. The people who will be prosecuting him have no legal consequences to anything they do.


If they prosecute General Clapper and General Alexandr for lying to Congress first, then I will be willing to entertain the notion of prosecuting Snowden too.
 
2013-12-17 11:41:48 AM  

BullBearMS: mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: There is no doubt that he broke the law. I'm glad he broke the law, but that is of no legal consequence.

I guess that's the point. The people who will be prosecuting him have no legal consequences to anything they do.

If they prosecute General Clapper and General Alexandr for lying to Congress first, then I will be willing to entertain the notion of prosecuting Snowden too.


You can entertain or not entertain anything you want. It's nothing but mental masturbation for all anyone but you cares.
 
2013-12-17 11:42:50 AM  

fasahd: Omsbusman:

Wiki: An ombudsman is usually appointed by the government or by parliament but with a significant degree of independence, who is charged with representing the interests of the public by investigating and addressing complaints of maladministration or violation of rights.

Snowden needs to be offered this job.


It's already taken:
www.washingtonpost.com
 
2013-12-17 11:44:37 AM  
"Hey, Brazil?  I think we can work together.  Never mind that I swore an oath to my homeland to never, never talk about what I was doing but then plastered it all over the international press to get some attention.  I'll never do that to YOU, Ok?"

This is why he's not getting asylum invitations from grateful nations. The US doesn't need to do a thing - he's totally farked himself already.
 
2013-12-17 11:59:51 AM  

Tchernobog: antisocialworker: Seriously, how is this guy not dead?

World's only superpower, my ass.

Certainly the government wouldn't look suspicious if he turned up dead. Nope. Plus he still has a crapton of documents that I'm sure would be dumped online from multiple sources if he turned up dead.


If nothing has come out now, nothing is going to.

Snowden made a political gambit and was wrong. Now his life is effectively over.

Americans as a whole don't give a shiat that the government is putting information into databases.
 
2013-12-17 12:03:20 PM  

WhiskeyBoy: If the guy was truly a whistle-blower, he would have protection under the Whistleblower Protection Act.  Before I hear a load of derp about how the government wouldn't care and would prosecute him anyway, the army of lawyers that would line up behind a true whistleblower would be staggering.


Think about it a bit. The government has now become so corrupt that it can pass laws in secret, yet ignorance of a law which you are not allowed to know about is still no excuse. The government has stacked all the cards in its own favor, and the only way Snowden can possibly get off is by Jury Nullification.

 Only by a jury of his peers giving the federal government the smackdown it has so arrogantly earned will he ever set a free foot within the boundaries of his own country again. Then, they will assassinate him.
 
2013-12-17 12:13:07 PM  

R.A.Danny: You can entertain or not entertain anything you want. It's nothing but mental masturbation for all anyone but you cares.


That is the case as long as people argue that Snowden should be prosecuted because It's The Law rather than any argument that doesn't base it's premise on Appeal To Authority.

But with the multitudes I see using the ol' Zero Tolerance approach, you're right; no body in power will care.
 
2013-12-17 12:14:19 PM  

Brosef Stalin: Need to start giving Snowden threads a hero tag to be fair.Here's a guy who has made massive self sacrifices to do the right thing in the interests of the general public and he ends up persecuted and stateless for it.I hope he gets permanent asylum somewhere.


I suggest that we give him ten years in Leavenworth, or eleven years in Twelveworth.
 
2013-12-17 12:16:20 PM  
What Snowden said:  "I'm willing to help Brazil's government investigate U.S. spying on its soil, but only if I'm granted political asylum."

What he meant:  HELP GET ME OUT OF THIS GODFORSAKEN COUNTRY I'M FREEZING MY @$$ OFF AND THE COPS ARE MONITORING ALL MY PHONE CALLS I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE HAAALLLP!
 
2013-12-17 12:22:19 PM  

Publikwerks: fasahd: Natalie Plumes' outing was bad, Bad Bush (smacks with newspaper) Wikileaks were careless with disregard for individuals as well. Snowden has been very cautious in this regard and I commend him. You really believe what you just said? Those things should stay in the dark in the free democracy we supposedly live in?

Listen, I said the NSA spying on US citizens is a no-no, and if Snowden had revealed just that, I would say he is a hero. However, I want our government spying on foreign governments. They are spying on us, and if they can't secure the cell phones of their leaders, well, that's on them.

But here's the deal - if what he did was justified, why run? If he feels that the government was acting against the best interests of the US people, then come back and face a jury of his peers. Let us decide. Otherwise, he is a fugative, and I will regard him as a coward.


I regard you as being either naive and ignorant, or a hypocrite liar.

What candy drop covered lovey dovey utopian paradise do you think the US is? Our govt conducts covert wars to destabilize entire areas of the world, resulting in untold carnage, including directly & indirectly US citizens. We overthrow democratically elected regimes. Wage proxy wars. Kill US citizens with drones. Conduct domestic political wars, COINTELPRO, Hoover's files, Watergate. False flag ops like Gulf of Tonkin. And ask Loomis, Binney, Weiber, or Manning how well things worked out by not running and facing "justice". And that's just a small handful of things that have been verifiably brought to light.

You don't want justice, you want a a martyr. Well tough shiat. Harriet Tubman should've stopped her illegal doings and faced "justice", and the Dahli Lama's a big pussy for not surrendering to China in person to face "justice".

You are either clueless or a liar. whynotboth.jpg
 
2013-12-17 12:28:46 PM  

mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: You can entertain or not entertain anything you want. It's nothing but mental masturbation for all anyone but you cares.

That is the case as long as people argue that Snowden should be prosecuted because It's The Law rather than any argument that doesn't base it's premise on Appeal To Authority.

But with the multitudes I see using the ol' Zero Tolerance approach, you're right; no body in power will care.


What are we going to get if we start saying "Was the guy Robin Hood" before every trial?
 
2013-12-17 12:34:07 PM  

Publikwerks: fasahd: Publikwerks: fasahd: Natalie Plumes' outing was bad, Bad Bush (smacks with newspaper) Wikileaks were careless with disregard for individuals as well. Snowden has been very cautious in this regard and I commend him. You really believe what you just said? Those things should stay in the dark in the free democracy we supposedly live in?

Listen, I said the NSA spying on US citizens is a no-no, and if Snowden had revealed just that, I would say he is a hero. However, I want our government spying on foreign governments. They are spying on us, and if they can't secure the cell phones of their leaders, well, that's on them.

But here's the deal - if what he did was justified, why run? If he feels that the government was acting against the best interests of the US people, then come back and face a jury of his peers. Let us decide. Otherwise, he is a fugative, and I will regard him as a coward.

Lyndon Johnson signed the freedom of information act. The internet has made it a reality. Information not only needs to be shared, It yearns to be free. Fine. Spy on world leaders. But we all want to know what they said so make sure to post in on TMz. Why is anything in the dark? Information yearns to be free. Just ask a virus trying to get out of a petri dish at the CDC. Someone posted comments by Elsberg, outer of the pentagon papers that eloquently expressed why he was able and needed to stay in the staes to help end the vietnam war and had access to the press in the free America we lived in at the time but he is totallly with Snowden in that in this day in age the man was left with no choice and would be in solitary like sirhan sirhan.
/meh

If information yearns to be free, please post your full name, home address, dob and SSN.


My full name is Kevin Gilbert Flanigan. My home address is  1006 Washington St. 32168 My date of birth is 6/29/62. I live in public housing with a ton of college loans and anyone who want's to steal my idententiy is probably farked. This being Christmas time if any altuistic farkers want to help me out, Im not sure of how to pay the gas bill. Good luck with that. I'm hesitent however to offer up my SSN. After all I might hit the lottery one day and I was after all voted most likely to make drugs out of household furniture. My ICBM co-ordinates are 29.0122 by 80.56.05. Just kidding, it will land in the front yard for a spectcular display.
Hope you're not pissed at me dude.
 
2013-12-17 12:34:46 PM  

HAMMERTOE: WhiskeyBoy: If the guy was truly a whistle-blower, he would have protection under the Whistleblower Protection Act.  Before I hear a load of derp about how the government wouldn't care and would prosecute him anyway, the army of lawyers that would line up behind a true whistleblower would be staggering.

Think about it a bit. The government has now become so corrupt that it can pass laws in secret, yet ignorance of a law which you are not allowed to know about is still no excuse. The government has stacked all the cards in its own favor, and the only way Snowden can possibly get off is by Jury Nullification.

 Only by a jury of his peers giving the federal government the smackdown it has so arrogantly earned will he ever set a free foot within the boundaries of his own country again. Then, they will assassinate him.


And last I checked (been a while) a court will not let an attorney argue jury nullification in court, and if third parties attempt to inform jurors of that right they go to jail for jury tampering.

I think the only work around was something like standing outside the courthouse and handing every passerby a flyer informing them of that option. And the credibility and efficacy of random flyer distribution, I'm assuming, is quite low.
 
2013-12-17 12:36:35 PM  

R.A.Danny: mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: You can entertain or not entertain anything you want. It's nothing but mental masturbation for all anyone but you cares.

That is the case as long as people argue that Snowden should be prosecuted because It's The Law rather than any argument that doesn't base it's premise on Appeal To Authority.

But with the multitudes I see using the ol' Zero Tolerance approach, you're right; no body in power will care.

What are we going to get if we start saying "Was the guy Robin Hood" before every trial?


Where are we going to get if we allow our leaders (who swore an oath to defend the Constitution) knowingly violate it and then lie about doing so under oath to Congress?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-12-17 12:45:11 PM  

BullBearMS: R.A.Danny: mdeesnuts: R.A.Danny: You can entertain or not entertain anything you want. It's nothing but mental masturbation for all anyone but you cares.

That is the case as long as people argue that Snowden should be prosecuted because It's The Law rather than any argument that doesn't base it's premise on Appeal To Authority.

But with the multitudes I see using the ol' Zero Tolerance approach, you're right; no body in power will care.

What are we going to get if we start saying "Was the guy Robin Hood" before every trial?

Where are we going to get if we allow our leaders (who swore an oath to defend the Constitution) knowingly violate it and then lie about doing so under oath to Congress?

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 500x442]


Snowden also made an oath. He is in fact a criminal. Like I said, I am glad he did what he did, but this isn't whistleblowing. Whistleblowing is taking the findings and reporting them to law enforcement, not wikileaks.
 
Displayed 50 of 159 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report