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(RealClear)   Billions of dollars literally flushed down the drain...Expensive vitamins=expensive urine   (realclear.com) divider line 200
    More: Interesting, Annals of Internal Medicine, multivitamins, betacarotenes, balanced diet, medical journals, Nutrition disorder, trade organization, epidemiology  
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9426 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2013 at 9:29 PM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-16 08:27:59 PM
I dont understand why people need to take vitamins in this day in age.

We eat way more than enough needed to fulfill these needs.
 
2013-12-16 08:40:42 PM

cman: I dont understand why people need to take vitamins in this day in age.

We eat way more than enough needed to fulfill these needs.


There are people who have legitimate needs for supplementation. People with Pernicious Anemia, for example, or people who have GI conditions who do not make intrinsic factor or impair the absorption of Thiamine, for example.  And certain people have incredibly poor diets which make them necessary.

However, what has developed is this culture of megadosing with water and fat soluable vitamins, not guided by health, diet, or laboratory tests, but rather by popular opinion and culture. Megadosing with the former does nothing, as the article says they get peed out. Megadosing with the later can kill you, as one of the major proponents in popular culture of megadosing vitamins almost found out.

I'm not ashamed to admit because of my diet I enjoy a gummy vitamin every morning (Hey, don't judge me. They're yummy.), but I'm under no weird qualms about what an excess of Vitamin B or C will do for me.
 
2013-12-16 09:27:18 PM
The same study, however, had previously found that multivitamins might modestly reduce the risk of cancer and cataracts. Cancer risk was reduced by 8 percent, while the risk of cataracts dropped by 9 percent, compared to a placebo.

LOLWUT
Small but non-zero
 
2013-12-16 09:32:36 PM
I take Vitamin D3 because I'm D3 deficient and niacin to bring down my cholesterol.

/Both recommended by my doctor.
 
2013-12-16 09:35:50 PM
I like peeing with value.
 
2013-12-16 09:36:08 PM
I eat a couple of those gummy multi's after a night of drinking.  Helps replace the vitamins pissed out earlier and I wake up more refreshed.
 
2013-12-16 09:36:12 PM
but i need my b12 pills for energy even though my liver stores enough b12 to last 5-6 years
 
2013-12-16 09:36:24 PM

cman: I dont understand why people need to take vitamins in this day in age.

We eat way more than enough needed to fulfill these needs.


Because while we eat a lot, what we end up eating is crap. In our desire for cheap, tasty, long-lasting foods, we end up consuming large amounts of processed, fatty, salty shiat that does nothing for your long-term health. I generally agree that most vitamin supplements probably aren't necessary (or even helpful), but there are a lot of people that are fat and still suffer from poor nutrition.
 
2013-12-16 09:36:30 PM
My mother-in-law owns a small mom-and-pop health food store, and the most profitable part of her business is, by far, vitamin sales.  Her profits go up every year, year on year.  In fact, sales IMPROVED during the Great Recession (hypothesis: her customers couldn't, or wouldn't, go to the doctor if they had any health problems---too expensive!---so they opted to treat their conditions "naturally" with vitamins and herbs).

She may not be rich, but she's a small-time millionaire in a low COLA, and it's all because people buy into the vitamin hype.
 
2013-12-16 09:36:40 PM
Well, that makes sense, you can flush pee but our new plastic bills float and can't be flushed.
/Commission Charbonneau fans should get it
 
2013-12-16 09:37:12 PM
This is not true of pyram... errr, multi level marketing Usana vitamins. You should become part of my down-line.
 
2013-12-16 09:37:26 PM
I took an iron table every day, when I was giving blood every couple of months (visiting Belize made the Red Cross put me on their naughty list for a year, so I have stopped both until at least January). I also take a small dose of Vitamin D, since my last blood test showed it was a little low. I also take a zinc tablet if I feel like a cold is coming along. Oh, and a fish oil capsule, because why the hell not...

OMG, I am addicted to supplements!
 
2013-12-16 09:37:57 PM
Well, I can afford to piss money away.  Sorry that you can't.
 
2013-12-16 09:38:32 PM
table=tablet. Eating an iron table every day would be pretty damned impressive.
 
2013-12-16 09:38:36 PM
Maybe that's what they were going for.
 
2013-12-16 09:39:18 PM
And the men say, go ahead, piss your fancy American piss rich and yellow with too many vitamins. Rich and expensive and thrown away.
 
2013-12-16 09:39:21 PM
So R. Kelly thought that girl was vitamin deficient or poor?
 
2013-12-16 09:39:38 PM

Molavian: Well, I can afford to piss money away.  Sorry that you can't.


Well, look at Oysters Rockefeller here. How's it feel to be in the 1% there, Mister Trump?
 
2013-12-16 09:39:58 PM

hardinparamedic: However, what has developed is this culture of megadosing with water and fat soluable vitamins, not guided by health, diet, or laboratory tests, but rather by popular opinion and culture. Megadosing with the former does nothing, as the article says they get peed out. Megadosing with the later can kill you, as one of the major proponents in popular culture of megadosing vitamins almost found out.


Did you link to the right article? That link discusses Mercola's promotion of some quack suggesting injecting baking soda into cancer as a cancer cure-all.
 
2013-12-16 09:40:02 PM
The article names a brand of supplement used with older men and memory related questions, and goes on about specific observations in other studies, but I am supposed to read this and think that this is very meaningful for all people taking all "multivitamin supplements"?
 
2013-12-16 09:40:27 PM

Snarfangel: table=tablet. Eating an iron table every day would be pretty damned impressive.


www.prevuehr.com
 
2013-12-16 09:41:20 PM
I take a multivitamin mostly for the vitamin d because for whatever reason my body needs help storing enough. I take fish oil for my heart as well. Say what you want but since I started taking both my blood work has been the best it ever has in my entire life.

/I exercise several time a week and eat ALOT of vegetables as well
 
2013-12-16 09:42:07 PM
Not all of it gets flushed. I pee in the shower after downing my fistful of iron, calcium, and manganese.

/not really.
 
2013-12-16 09:42:33 PM
So not a good week for Amway?
 
2013-12-16 09:42:39 PM
Who thinks vitamins increase memory or prevent heart attacks?

The article buried the actual news.

Cancer risk was reduced by 8 percent, while the risk of cataracts dropped by 9 percent, compared to a placebo

8 percent less cancer? Yeah, I'll take that, thanks.


 
2013-12-16 09:43:24 PM

Snarfangel: table=tablet. Eating an iron table every day would be pretty damned impressive.


I was going to ask if that didn't wreck hell on your intestines.  Makes much more sense now.

/alliteration
 
2013-12-16 09:44:02 PM
Like in real life, everyone here has a legitimate reason to take vitamins. So business as usual.
 
2013-12-16 09:44:04 PM

Enigmamf: Did you link to the right article? That link discusses Mercola's promotion of some quack suggesting injecting baking soda into cancer as a cancer cure-all.


Ah, I thought that link had his greatest hit of trying to kill himself with Hypervitaminosis D. I'll try to dig up the blog post by Orac if I can find it.
 
2013-12-16 09:44:26 PM
I have never felt compelled to take vitamins. I don't feel like I need them, I don't think about needing them, and they cost money I'd rather not spend. So, forget it.
 
2013-12-16 09:45:31 PM

hardinparamedic: cman: I dont understand why people need to take vitamins in this day in age.

We eat way more than enough needed to fulfill these needs.

There are people who have legitimate needs for supplementation. People with Pernicious Anemia, for example, or people who have GI conditions who do not make intrinsic factor or impair the absorption of Thiamine, for example.  And certain people have incredibly poor diets which make them necessary.

However, what has developed is this culture of megadosing with water and fat soluable vitamins, not guided by health, diet, or laboratory tests, but rather by popular opinion and culture. Megadosing with the former does nothing, as the article says they get peed out. Megadosing with the later can kill you, as one of the major proponents in popular culture of megadosing vitamins almost found out.

I'm not ashamed to admit because of my diet I enjoy a gummy vitamin every morning (Hey, don't judge me. They're yummy.), but I'm under no weird qualms about what an excess of Vitamin B or C will do for me.


Quackery is an understatement.

My sister and I decided to pull mom off life support last Monday. She was in ICU from 11/30 complaining of shortness of breath.

The attending ICU doc was luckily her cardiologist and knew the poor health choices she's made over the last decade. The core problem? She refused to take beta blockers which would have slowed down the cardiomyopathy which developed infer the last 5 years. Why didn't she take the meds? He friends in the vitamin snake oil business counseled her that the beta blockers cause more problems than they solve.

The result? She's been taking fistfuls of vitamins and "natural" remedies instead. This did nothing to slow the thickening of her heart walls and the end result was fled backup into her lungs.

By the time we got to the ICU (my sis and I live hours away) she was already incubated and had been defibed twice. We found her healthcare directives and she didn't want that. By that time pneumonia set in and she was fighting sepsis.

The doc said there was nothing short of a transplant to help her and her age and smoking history and not following orders disqualified her. But in reality she couldn't be maintained for the days/weeks to wait for a donor if there was one.

So we started a morphine and Ativan drip and slowly increased the dosage until it was 10mg/hr. They pushed 2mg more of each and verified no response to pain.

They pulled the ventilator tube and her O2 perfusion dropped from 97% to 0 in 5 minutes while her breathing and heart slowed. I had to listen to my mother breathe through her own lung secretions until her hear stopped 15 minutes later while we held her hand.

You can imagine my anger of that quack counseling her to avoid proven treatments and go with unproven marketing and conspiracy snake oil. Why isn't this considered practicing medicine without a license?

Anyway, she's dead. 20 years too soon as all her relatives lived until their late 90s, some past 100.

Institutional and protected ignorance is deadly.
 
2013-12-16 09:45:32 PM

BetterMetalSnake: Like in real life, everyone here has a legitimate reason to take vitamins. So business as usual.


Except for the fact that taking a supplement when indicated is a little different than someone trying to sell you megadoses of Vitamin B12 or C for no reason. Or, FSM-Forbid, Vitamin A or D.
 
2013-12-16 09:46:17 PM
I pop a few viagras every morning before work
 
2013-12-16 09:46:49 PM
GNC mega men vitamins definitely are the exception here.  Just kidding.  They smell like bat shiat.  The age pretty badly too, leaving a foul permanent smell in whatever they're store in after a year or so.

It's good to know my decision to stop taking multi vitamins, skip the fluorescent colored yellow pee, and save my kidney are all coated in sound scientific goodness.
 
2013-12-16 09:47:01 PM

jaytkay: Who thinks vitamins increase memory or prevent heart attacks?



That one guy -- you know, the one with the...face. And the thing! God, what was his name?

Anyway, he turned me onto vitamins, and now my memory is as sharp as a ... oh, that thing you push into the wall. You know, with the point.
 
2013-12-16 09:48:09 PM

ModernPrimitive01: /I exercise several time a week and eat ALOT of vegetables as well


Does the alot get upset that you eat its vegetables?
 
2013-12-16 09:48:25 PM
I was hoping the tag would be the obvious tag. Pissing it away!
 
2013-12-16 09:49:04 PM

AbiNormal: I take Vitamin D3 because I'm D3 deficient and niacin to bring down my cholesterol.

/Both recommended by my doctor.


Yeah, those guys know everything.
 
2013-12-16 09:50:07 PM

lohphat: hardinparamedic: cman: I dont understand why people need to take vitamins in this day in age.

We eat way more than enough needed to fulfill these needs.

There are people who have legitimate needs for supplementation. People with Pernicious Anemia, for example, or people who have GI conditions who do not make intrinsic factor or impair the absorption of Thiamine, for example.  And certain people have incredibly poor diets which make them necessary.

However, what has developed is this culture of megadosing with water and fat soluable vitamins, not guided by health, diet, or laboratory tests, but rather by popular opinion and culture. Megadosing with the former does nothing, as the article says they get peed out. Megadosing with the later can kill you, as one of the major proponents in popular culture of megadosing vitamins almost found out.

I'm not ashamed to admit because of my diet I enjoy a gummy vitamin every morning (Hey, don't judge me. They're yummy.), but I'm under no weird qualms about what an excess of Vitamin B or C will do for me.

Quackery is an understatement.

My sister and I decided to pull mom off life support last Monday. She was in ICU from 11/30 complaining of shortness of breath.

The attending ICU doc was luckily her cardiologist and knew the poor health choices she's made over the last decade. The core problem? She refused to take beta blockers which would have slowed down the cardiomyopathy which developed infer the last 5 years. Why didn't she take the meds? He friends in the vitamin snake oil business counseled her that the beta blockers cause more problems than they solve.

The result? She's been taking fistfuls of vitamins and "natural" remedies instead. This did nothing to slow the thickening of her heart walls and the end result was fled backup into her lungs.

By the time we got to the ICU (my sis and I live hours away) she was already incubated and had been defibed twice. We found her healthcare directives and she didn't want that. ...


I have nothing I can say other than I hope you can find some peace and closure with the passage of time and the love of friends and family. I lost a friend of mine to pancreatic cancer after he chose to do vitamins and the gerson diet instead of early chemotherapy. By the time he decided to seek radiation/chemo it was because of the pain and we discovered he had extensive mets.
 
2013-12-16 09:50:29 PM

Salmon: I pop a few viagras every morning before work


Those things are like $35 a pill, you must have a cushy job, or secretary with a cushy bottom.
 
2013-12-16 09:50:47 PM
Vitamin makers: "Hey, take vitamins to supplant your diet, you'll feel more alert and healthy"
Vitamin buyers: "I feel more alert all day after a multivitamin, these work great"
This study:  "Vitamins don't make you live longer, DON'T BUY THEM!"

I often take vit. C, which helps noticeably with healing.  A good old multivitamin works great as a pick-me-up when I'm tired.

So does a dinner of stir fried liver & chives, actually. (Japanese dish)
/themoreyouknow
 
2013-12-16 09:52:14 PM
Lophat: Anyway, she's dead. 20 years too soon as all her relatives lived until their late 90s, some past 100.

Institutional and protected ignorance is deadly.
----
So sorry for your loss. Sorrier it had to happen that way.
 
2013-12-16 09:53:02 PM
I only eat things that occur in nature, like unpasteurized milk!
 
2013-12-16 09:53:45 PM
It was my understanding that concentrated vitamins aren't absorbed very well, if at all, compared to the natural vitamins from fruits and veggies.
 
2013-12-16 09:54:41 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I only eat things that occur in nature, like unpasteurized milk!


Pictured:  Snarcoleptic Hoosiersix hours AFTER drinking Unpasteurized Milk. To infinity and beyond!

i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-12-16 09:55:09 PM

Strongbeerrules: AbiNormal: I take Vitamin D3 because I'm D3 deficient and niacin to bring down my cholesterol.

/Both recommended by my doctor.

Yeah, those guys know everything.


imageshack.us

Hey, did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too?
 
2013-12-16 09:55:25 PM

Nightjars: Snarfangel: table=tablet. Eating an iron table every day would be pretty damned impressive.

[www.prevuehr.com image 460x252]


::golf clap::
 
2013-12-16 09:56:23 PM

hardinparamedic: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I only eat things that occur in nature, like unpasteurized milk!

Pictured:  Snarcoleptic Hoosiersix hours AFTER drinking Unpasteurized Milk. To infinity and beyond!

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


Dude, that is not cool. A dark brown cabinet with a white ceramic tile? Disgusting.
 
2013-12-16 09:58:13 PM
Here is the editorial itself, if anyone's interested:
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253
 
2013-12-16 09:59:20 PM
In the same way that bacon is sugar free, vitamins don't cure cancer.  Who cares?

Just because some people think nutty things about vitamins doesn't mean that vitamins are not worthwhile.

In particular, our food is fortified with vitamins.  It follows that if you eat food that is already fortified you won't need a supplement.  However if you don't drink milk and live in a place like Seattle, you are going to be vitamin D deficient and if you don't take something that makes up for it you will likely have health and mental issues.
 
2013-12-16 10:00:06 PM

hardinparamedic: BetterMetalSnake: Like in real life, everyone here has a legitimate reason to take vitamins. So business as usual.

Except for the fact that taking a supplement when indicated is a little different than someone trying to sell you megadoses of Vitamin B12 or C for no reason. Or, FSM-Forbid, Vitamin A or D.


I had a friend that was a nutritionist (got a bachelor's in it) and she picked up every friggin fad diet, or food-related nonsense. Every time we talked she just had to bring up the newest peleo-atkin-organic-raw food BS and how it was going to be the best thing we ever did. Finally I askes for a study. I single medical study to support a single one of her shenanigans.

Guess what happened? She cried. I'm a jerk and I took whatever stupid vitamin she wanted me to take. But only until she discovered the next new thing.

I know some people have a genuine need for supplements. Just like some people have a genuine allergy to peanuts and made money buying gold. But this is Fark, so probably not anyone we know.
 
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