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(Onion AV Club)   James Cameron wants you to think of "Avatar" as "The Godfather"   (avclub.com) divider line 98
    More: Fail, The Godfather, avatars, Godfather  
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1646 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 16 Dec 2013 at 4:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-16 06:39:11 PM  

Esroc: I don't see how Avatar was as awful as you guys are clamoring to describe it as. I will grant that it wasn't the height of cinema but it was still a fun movie.

You guys remember fun, right?


Pacific Rim was a fun movie. Avatar was a visually stunning pile of crap with pretentious whipped cream. All it proved was you can put a very nice polish on a turd.
 
2013-12-16 06:41:19 PM  

groppet: Yeah and I would like to think my shiat is chocolate ice cream but it aint happening.


If everyone's shiat tasted like chocolate ice cream, would people come to hate the taste of chocolate ice cream or love the taste of shiat?
 
2013-12-16 06:44:28 PM  
The main reason I'm looking forward to the sequels is that just like with the first movie and with each passing film, it will drive more and more "Avatards" into blowing their sad little brains out when they know that they will never, ever, ever get to live in the beauty and wonder of Pandora IRL.

img.4plebs.org
 
2013-12-16 06:52:59 PM  
I saw the new "Tron" and "Avatar" with my wife on Imax 3D. These were post-kids and we never hired sitters, so these were big deals. We found both entertaining and worth the money, but I've had no interest in seeing either since.

Another post-child movie was "Inception", which I'd love to see again. Poke all the holes in the plot line you want, it was interesting and visually stunning. Whereas the first two movies were just "visually stunning".

I'm hoping drive-in theaters last long enough for me to take my kids to one.
 
2013-12-16 06:54:04 PM  
Unlikelium.
 
2013-12-16 06:59:50 PM  

Lsherm: Titanic was better than Avatar.


That's a complicated statement. The characters were as about the same in their they were are two dimensional. Cinematography wise, everything in Titanic was bathed in blue light, like all of Cameron's movie and the Na'vi were all blue. Both Titanic and Avatar had a cliched, beaten to death plot and really cliched characters. So both movies were just pedestrian stories with pretty FX. So since the FX were more advanced in Avatar, I suppose Avatar wins.
 
2013-12-16 07:01:51 PM  
I thought it was pretty dumb

didn't understand the enthusiasm at all
 
2013-12-16 07:11:15 PM  
Then considering where he started out with number one, three is going to be total garbage.
 
2013-12-16 07:18:42 PM  

RoxtarRyan: Hoping to save production costs wherever it can, James Cameron's Avatar series has relocated to New Zealand

He's making more? What, picking up where the military decided to just rain death on the planet from high orbit?


Heh, yeah. I wonder how they'll work around that little fact.
 
2013-12-16 07:21:58 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Very true. It was cliché after cliché. The instant I heard "Only three people have ever tamed that beast" I would have bet my house that Jake will be the forth.


Very true. Sooner or later Chekhov's gun will always be fired.
 
2013-12-16 07:25:30 PM  

thisispete: Flint Ironstag: Very true. It was cliché after cliché. The instant I heard "Only three people have ever tamed that beast" I would have bet my house that Jake will be the forth.

Very true. Sooner or later Chekhov's gun will always be fired.


Jeez man. If you're going to link to Chekhov's Gun, at least link to the one that can drain an entire day's work!

/Also I just noticed the wiki address misspells Chekhov
 
2013-12-16 07:41:14 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I didn't realize so many people compared it to Dances With Wolves. I always thought it more closely resembled Fern Gully with all the environmentalism.


wrong.
static.comicvine.com
 
2013-12-16 07:55:03 PM  
Subby implied James Cameron wants you to think Avatar is as good/important as The Godfather, which of course is not what was meant. Making subby and Fark no better than the usual bottom-feeding gossip sites. I'm tired of shiat like this popping up on sites that I otherwise generally like, so please fark yourself with an old splintery piece of lumber.

/I don't like Avatar either.
 
2013-12-16 07:59:23 PM  

sovietski: scottydoesntknow: I didn't realize so many people compared it to Dances With Wolves. I always thought it more closely resembled Fern Gully with all the environmentalism.

I thought it was closer to Fern Gully as well, but I can see the parallels with Dances With Wolves too.

Dances with Wolves: Fern Gully Edition, in Space.

/didn't think Avatar was all that great


The Last Samurai gets the blues.
 
2013-12-16 08:37:16 PM  
Like "Godfather"?

So the second one is almost as good as the first one, but the third one is (more of) an absolute shiatfest.
 
2013-12-16 08:53:40 PM  
I'll leave the Avater sequels and take the cannoli
 
2013-12-16 08:55:30 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: And here I was thinking that I was the only person who thought Avatar was awful.


Oh, come on.  It wasn't that great, but "awful" is a bit unkind.  It was pretty good for the generic turn-your-brain-off action flick it was, even putting the above-par special effects aside.

It was an action movie about a manly dude going native and winning the throne and the girl by punching various soldiers, robots, and/or mythical beasts into submission, it was more Conan the Barbarian than the actual Conan movie (either of them).  Straight-up 1920s pulp Sword and sorcery stuff, you have to at least salute the homage to classic Howard stuff.

// It's not like I'm the only person who noticed this, since someone watched it and decided it was time for a John Carter of Mars movie, which is literally a contemporary work in the same genre that was coincidentally set in [strike]space[/strike]spaaaaaaaaace instead of the distant past.


severedtoe: So the second one will be modestly better than the first and it will all go down hill from there?


Well, if they do sequels, the conceits of the Science Fiction will force them to pace it something like the Godfather films.  The logical next conflict, because it's a swashbuckling/action film, is when the humans come back to reclaim the planet, and there's a 5- or 10-year turnaround on actually preparing an invasion/occupation and getting it over there.

Lots of time to set up the visual set-pieces in the form of biological/magical defenses to play the metaphorical chandeliers in the inevitable thundersmurf/mecha-mercenary swordfights, basically.  Or at least vaguely justify the movie's action obstacle-course.
 
2013-12-16 08:58:21 PM  
cuz they're both overrated twee?

Uh huh.
 
2013-12-16 09:05:27 PM  

theorellior: It's been quite a while since "Avatar" came out and I really only hear one person clamoring for sequels. And that person would be James Cameron.

One would hope he's hire some actual writers to flesh out this world. Of course, he's probably just hired Damon Lindelof for extra suckage.


Since that won't happen, I hope it is the biggest flop since John Carter.
 
2013-12-16 09:12:58 PM  
I love how all of these Hollywood liberals flee California once the cameras turn on. They do so, of course, to avoid paying taxes and unions. Liberalism does not really apply to the rich.

And he ripped off the old computer game series The Vortex
 
2013-12-16 09:32:39 PM  

grinding_journalist: James Cameron should be the one directing the new Star Wars movies.

This is the guy that did T2 and Aliens, lest we forget.


I will always remember him for introducing to me Kate Winslet's boobs in Titanic. Boobs that have had several supporting roles before and after since.

Oscar boobs.
 
2013-12-16 09:37:37 PM  
www.collectedcurios.com
 
2013-12-16 09:51:01 PM  
Nobody posting pictures of Na'vi and offering to bang them?

Fark has gotten weird.
 
2013-12-16 10:19:20 PM  

fusillade762: RoxtarRyan: Hoping to save production costs wherever it can, James Cameron's Avatar series has relocated to New Zealand

He's making more? What, picking up where the military decided to just rain death on the planet from high orbit?

Heh, yeah. I wonder how they'll work around that little fact.


Remember the military was private security forces, basically Pinkerton men from the future. There's only so much they can do without people getting outraged, because word would eventually get back home to Earf if they committed genocide or wrecked an ecosystem with orbital bombardment.
 
2013-12-16 10:34:13 PM  
Avatar was like a short from Heavy Metal expanded to feature length, blessed with cutting edge effects, and minus naked boobies. It's immature van art fantasy with high production values.
 
2013-12-16 10:34:35 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Marcus Aurelius: When I think of "Avatar" I think of "Ishtar".  Because they were both as watchable as each other.

And here I was thinking that I was the only person who thought Avatar was awful.


I remember it as being a fun thing to watch in 3-d... i couldnt imagine anyone wanting to watch it otherwise...

and michelle rodriguez is worse than usual.

/a good actor is measured by whether they can turn garbage dialogue into something decent.... she didn't.
 
2013-12-16 10:35:11 PM  

Mugato: Lsherm: Titanic was better than Avatar.

That's a complicated statement. The characters were as about the same in their they were are two dimensional. Cinematography wise, everything in Titanic was bathed in blue light, like all of Cameron's movie and the Na'vi were all blue. Both Titanic and Avatar had a cliched, beaten to death plot and really cliched characters. So both movies were just pedestrian stories with pretty FX. So since the FX were more advanced in Avatar, I suppose Avatar wins.


Bah.  Titanic was better because Cameron let his main character die at the end.  Thus preventing 4 sequels for a technically brilliant but overall mediocre movie.

And I thought he was leaning very obviously towards red for Titanic, to the point it became ridiculous.  He actually had the balls to say the sunset in the background of the bow scene "was that red" in the commentary track on the anniversary edition.  And he was full of shiat.

The interior shots were biased blue to enhance the water, but everything exterior was either biased that old brown or red you see in faded pictures.
 
2013-12-16 11:32:02 PM  
I know it's cool to hate on movies that make a billion dollars, but Titanic got me laid by every date I took to see it (one ex-girlfriend, two formerly "we're just friends") and Avatar was pretty fun. Not a smart movie by any stretch, but worth seeing more than once just to appreciate the stunning visuals.
I'll go see a sequel, certainly. If it's as visually original, I'll see it more than once.

/Posted in right thread now, I hope
 
2013-12-16 11:34:24 PM  

Mad_Radhu: theorellior: Mad_Radhu: Plus, I'm a sucker for Wayne Barlowe creature design

Yeah, me too. Although having WB do the creature design meant there were all sorts of questions like "Why didn't the Na'vi have doubled forelimbs or peripheral eyes like every other farking animal on Pandora?"

If they were smart, they would make that a plot point in the sequels, where the Na'vi wind up being a non-native species that colonized the moon thousands or years prior and genetically engineered all of the native species to be controllable via a biotech brain link, and even turned the plant life into a giant neural network. At some point, the colony fails and descends into barbarism and forgets its origins.

Over the course of the sequels, you have the offworld origin of the Na'vi discovered when a ancient facility is found preserved somewhere, and a signal is sent out to re-establish contact. Just when the second wave of mercs from Earth arrive to finish the job from the first movie, the spacefaring Na'vi arrive with some FTL-capable ships and hilarity ensues. Ties up a lot of weird questions from the first movie, while giving you enough plot for the sequel.


I like the way you think. Somebody get Cameron on the line!
 
2013-12-16 11:40:39 PM  

fusillade762: Mad_Radhu: theorellior: Mad_Radhu: Plus, I'm a sucker for Wayne Barlowe creature design

Yeah, me too. Although having WB do the creature design meant there were all sorts of questions like "Why didn't the Na'vi have doubled forelimbs or peripheral eyes like every other farking animal on Pandora?"

If they were smart, they would make that a plot point in the sequels, where the Na'vi wind up being a non-native species that colonized the moon thousands or years prior and genetically engineered all of the native species to be controllable via a biotech brain link, and even turned the plant life into a giant neural network. At some point, the colony fails and descends into barbarism and forgets its origins.

Over the course of the sequels, you have the offworld origin of the Na'vi discovered when a ancient facility is found preserved somewhere, and a signal is sent out to re-establish contact. Just when the second wave of mercs from Earth arrive to finish the job from the first movie, the spacefaring Na'vi arrive with some FTL-capable ships and hilarity ensues. Ties up a lot of weird questions from the first movie, while giving you enough plot for the sequel.

I like the way you think. Somebody get Cameron on the line!



My theory was that Pandora was basically some ancient civilizations version of a Disneyland retirement home, they set up the biological neural network, and used genetic material from the nearby solar system to create sentient creatures to download themselves into and live an idealized back-to-nature lifestyle.
 
2013-12-16 11:40:58 PM  

Mad_Radhu: fusillade762: RoxtarRyan: Hoping to save production costs wherever it can, James Cameron's Avatar series has relocated to New Zealand

He's making more? What, picking up where the military decided to just rain death on the planet from high orbit?

Heh, yeah. I wonder how they'll work around that little fact.

Remember the military was private security forces, basically Pinkerton men from the future. There's only so much they can do without people getting outraged, because word would eventually get back home to Earf if they committed genocide or wrecked an ecosystem with orbital bombardment.


And a cheap out like that might work, except for two problems:

A) No outsiders appeared to be monitoring them, leaving them free to do whatever they liked and make up their own stories later. ("They all died of plague! A terrible plague that fell from the heavens and caused them all to explode! Look man, weird stuff happens on far away planets, just go with it."

B) In the big finale, the company IS committing mass genocide. If they're not hellbent on finishing the job in the next film, then... ah, who cares. The first film wasn't a champion of narrative consistency, and I doubt the sequels will be any better.
 
Slu
2013-12-16 11:49:36 PM  
I saw Avatar once.  Sober.  And I don't remember one damn thing about it except the word Unobtainium.   I think that speaks volumes.
 
2013-12-17 12:08:47 AM  

Rwa2play: scottydoesntknow: I didn't realize so many people compared it to Dances With Wolves. I always thought it more closely resembled Fern Gully with all the environmentalism.

I've always called it "Dances With Smurfs".


You smurf that back!  That's not smurfy at all.  Comparing smurfs to that Gargamel turd is offensive
 
2013-12-17 12:14:23 AM  
Let's see. One is an epic story about crime, America, and family loyalty that helped look at all those things in a new light, but which was also part of a revolution in film making. It was beautifully shot, well-scripted, superbly acted, and after 40 years still holds its own against anything that's been made since. The other is an animated story about fairies. I can see the comparison.
 
2013-12-17 12:29:46 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Marcus Aurelius: When I think of "Avatar" I think of "Ishtar".  Because they were both as watchable as each other.

And here I was thinking that I was the only person who thought Avatar was awful.


It's like he tried to do a movie like The Last Samurai, but forgot to make it good.

(Say what you want about white-guy-saving-the-nation syndrome, but TLS is one of my favorite movies)
 
2013-12-17 12:34:00 AM  

efgeise: white-guy-saving-the-nation syndrome



eh, "Mighty Whitey" and its associate the Magical Foreigner (to cover all the variations thereof) are both basically statements that no matter how good a culture is, an outside perspective is often a good thing to have. The Last Samurai wasn't insulting about it, some movies get pretty ham-fisted.
 
2013-12-17 12:40:41 AM  

Boojum2k: efgeise: white-guy-saving-the-nation syndrome


eh, "Mighty Whitey" and its associate the Magical Foreigner (to cover all the variations thereof) are both basically statements that no matter how good a culture is, an outside perspective is often a good thing to have. The Last Samurai wasn't insulting about it, some movies get pretty ham-fisted.


Fair enough. Outside perspective works. What I liked about TLS is how they went about getting Cruise's character to Japan, and then getting him stuck in the samurai camp. It was actually believable. Like you said, some movies do it ham-fisted (which bothers me).

Plus, one of the HUGE differences between TLS and Avatar was that the samurai culture in TLS was a character in its own right. It had development. Cameron spent all of like 10 minutes letting the blue cats develop.
 
2013-12-17 12:45:45 AM  

efgeise: Cameron spent all of like 10 minutes letting the blue cats develop.



During scriptwriting even. How does a completely non-violent sustenance-level hunting culture have "warriors"?

Also, there are two sentient species within such a small area of space. Even without considering my WMG theory from earlier, that means sentience is likely common among inhabitable worlds. Which culture could better handle a threat such as a Saberhagen-style Berserker? I doubt it's the happy blue monkey tree-friends.

I liked the movie, but I will happily pick apart its flaws.
 
2013-12-17 01:24:49 AM  
Cameron means "prequels," right?  'Cause I don't know how you can have any sequels after killing your best character.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-17 01:25:22 AM  
Avatar was  abouton par with Prometheus. Watchable but deeply flawed movies with paper thin characters. Prometheus' plot made less sense though. Whyyyyyy?
 
2013-12-17 01:56:07 AM  

efgeise: Boojum2k: efgeise: white-guy-saving-the-nation syndrome


eh, "Mighty Whitey" and its associate the Magical Foreigner (to cover all the variations thereof) are both basically statements that no matter how good a culture is, an outside perspective is often a good thing to have. The Last Samurai wasn't insulting about it, some movies get pretty ham-fisted.

Fair enough. Outside perspective works. What I liked about TLS is how they went about getting Cruise's character to Japan, and then getting him stuck in the samurai camp. It was actually believable. Like you said, some movies do it ham-fisted (which bothers me).

Plus, one of the HUGE differences between TLS and Avatar was that the samurai culture in TLS was a character in its own right. It had development. Cameron spent all of like 10 minutes letting the blue cats develop.


TLS was the better version of Avatar, and I always bring it up because of what you said - granted the culture existed on Earth so fleshing it out took time. But damned if in the movie they didn't gloss over it all in seconds. How did the Navi develop a warrior culture when they were all just gatherers, not even really hunters?
 
x23
2013-12-17 03:22:11 AM  

scottydoesntknow: /Also I just noticed the wiki address misspells Chekhov



no. the original poster misspelled it and wikipedia was nice enough to correct their idiocy.

that is what the "Redirected from Chekov's gun" line means.
 
2013-12-17 05:17:05 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: Cameron means "prequels," right?  'Cause I don't know how you can have any sequels after killing your best character.

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]


Only character, you mean?
 
2013-12-17 09:51:46 AM  
Avatar is something everyone watches once.  There's no desire to watch it again.
 
2013-12-17 11:01:42 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: Cameron means "prequels," right?  'Cause I don't know how you can have any sequels after killing your best character.

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]


James Cameron has heard you and James Cameron cares about you

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/oct/23/avatar-sequel-colonel-qu ar itch
 
2013-12-17 11:04:05 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: Cameron means "prequels," right?  'Cause I don't know how you can have any sequels after killing your best character.

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]


I read that in a Malcom McDowell voice for added awesome.
 
2013-12-17 01:09:35 PM  

groppet: Yeah and I would like to think my shiat is chocolate ice cream but it aint happening.


Mines more on the cherry side but I'm seeing a doctor about that...
 
2013-12-17 08:19:57 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Olympic Trolling Judge: Cameron means "prequels," right?  'Cause I don't know how you can have any sequels after killing your best character.

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]

James Cameron has heard you and James Cameron cares about you

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/oct/23/avatar-sequel-colonel-qu ar itch


Interesting. Though I sorta figured Weaver's character would be back given the nature of her death.
 
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