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(LA Times)   Three quarters of survey respondents think that Obamacare is responsible for worsening health coverage, irreparably tangled Christmas lights   (latimes.com) divider line 49
    More: Obvious, Affordable Care Act, Christmas lights, California GOP, defined benefit plan, percent increase, Michael Hiltzik  
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386 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Dec 2013 at 3:05 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-16 12:23:51 PM  
Nice headline, subby!
 
2013-12-16 12:28:43 PM  
I thought the Jews did that.
 
2013-12-16 12:39:04 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I thought the Jews did that.


Well, Obama is everything else simultaneously, he might as well be a Jew too.
 
2013-12-16 12:44:55 PM  
But other than letting people with preexisting conditions get insurance, letting people stay on their parents' insurance while attending graduate school, creating a competitive marketplace for people to buy insurance, providing subsidies for people to purchase insurance, and building the aqueduct, what have the Romans done for us?
 
2013-12-16 01:09:53 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: But other than letting people with preexisting conditions get insurance, letting people stay on their parents' insurance while attending graduate school, creating a competitive marketplace for people to buy insurance, providing subsidies for people to purchase insurance, and building the aqueduct, what have the Romans done for us?


Don't forget creating free market economics, without which charity cannot exist. Since Jesus spoke of charity, it must have existed in 30BC Judea.
 
2013-12-16 01:46:11 PM  

ManateeGag: scottydoesntknow: I thought the Jews did that.

Well, Obama is everything else simultaneously, he might as well be a Jew too.


Kanye West disagrees.
 
2013-12-16 01:49:41 PM  
Obamacare invited my family over to stay a week during Christmas.

Thanks Obam.
 
2013-12-16 01:51:27 PM  
I bet the Cruz did this.
 
2013-12-16 01:52:29 PM  
It certainly can't hold a candle to the Affordable Care Act.
 
2013-12-16 02:39:23 PM  

Diogenes: It certainly can't hold a candle to the Affordable Care Act.


I don't care as long as the government keeps their hands off my Medicare
 
2013-12-16 02:47:02 PM  
Sometimes I think about all of the brain cells that I have destroyed with beer, and then I think about people that are rallying against healthcare reform and then I don't feel so bad.
 
2013-12-16 02:59:31 PM  
I guess we can go ahead and get this out of the way before this goes green.

i595.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-16 03:20:14 PM  
Twenty percent of Americans think cloud computing has to do with actual clouds in the sky.
 
2013-12-16 03:22:28 PM  
3/4 think Obamacare is, "the reason for changes in their health coverage for 2014."

Changes would include things like affordable health care for self-employed people like me.
 
2013-12-16 03:24:05 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I thought the Jews did that.


No, that's Christmas.
 
2013-12-16 03:24:27 PM  
yea, our HealthDon'tCare system was great until the black guy messed it all up.


and THEN, surprise of a surprise, Employers drop healthinsurance and blame the black guy.


when are you dumbass americans going to figure out that Capital (big business and the wealthy) owns your ass and your government?


how long will it take for you rocket scientists to figure that out???

i'm guessing that as long as the TV has what's left of your minds, a very long time......


this would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic in 'the greatest democracy on earth'.
 
2013-12-16 03:25:52 PM  

jaytkay: 3/4 think Obamacare is, "the reason for changes in their health coverage for 2014."

Changes would include things like affordable health care for self-employed people like me.


And for the vast majority of people with pre-existing conditions.  And the older folk who are NOT yet at the Medicare age.

It's just (primarily) going to go up for younger males, because you need healthy bodies in that risk pool to keep it profitable.
 
2013-12-16 03:26:27 PM  
TFA: Some companies have been blaming the act for forcing them to roll back health coverage...This is curious, because the employer tax on Cadillac plans...doesn't start until 2018.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-12-16 03:27:07 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: But other than letting people with preexisting conditions get insurance, letting people stay on their parents' insurance while attending graduate school, creating a competitive marketplace for people to buy insurance, providing subsidies for people to purchase insurance, and building the aqueduct, what have the Romans done for us?



they were also pretty good at Divide and Conquer/ Divide and Rule.


George Carlin said it much better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqW-Fv1eLCU     (limited adult language)
 
2013-12-16 03:33:36 PM  
Hey bottom 95% of America:  the richest 5% of America have a tissue for your issue.
 
2013-12-16 03:44:27 PM  
People who pay less ==>  Obamacare rules!
People who pay more ==> Obamacare sucks!

Seems about right to me.
 
2013-12-16 03:57:13 PM  
Everyone is blaming the other guy for the cost of health care going up. All I know is I am paying nearly 3 times as much for less coverage.
 
2013-12-16 03:59:04 PM  

groppet: Everyone is blaming the other guy for the cost of health care going up. All I know is I am paying nearly 3 times as much for less coverage.


3 times more that what?
 
2013-12-16 04:05:23 PM  

ManateeGag: scottydoesntknow: I thought the Jews did that.

Well, Obama is everything else simultaneously, he might as well be a Jew too.


"Jew" is on the Big Spiffy List of All the Bad Things Fartbama Is....
 
2013-12-16 04:10:01 PM  
Yeah, employers, insurers, and morons are blaming everything medical related on Obamacare.  It's adorable.
 
2013-12-16 04:13:50 PM  
49% of Americans think Noah's ark was real.

Just say'in.
 
2013-12-16 04:27:01 PM  

jaytkay: groppet: Everyone is blaming the other guy for the cost of health care going up. All I know is I am paying nearly 3 times as much for less coverage.

3 times more that what?


3 times more than I was a year ago.
 
2013-12-16 04:51:40 PM  

groppet: jaytkay: groppet: Everyone is blaming the other guy for the cost of health care going up. All I know is I am paying nearly 3 times as much for less coverage.

3 times more that what?

3 times more than I was a year ago.


Well based on all the facts you've given here, I can definitely say that's terrible or it's not terrible.
 
2013-12-16 05:03:05 PM  
Starting with 2013, the ACA cut in half the amount of pre-tax $$ you could put into a health care spending account. Meaning you had a larger tax bite of whatever your overall tax rate was on that $2500.00.

My health insurance plans just changed for next year to a choice of "bronze," "silver," or "gold." And they are changing the choice of providers to a different single provider. The "silver" plan is roughly comparable to what I had before, and costs me $45 more per month.

I am not blaming the ACA for the second issue, but it rankles that my employer just happened to re-bid their healthcare contracts and lo and behold, we have plans that "match" the ACA, at least in name, and a premium increase. I am sure I have coworkers who will see something more sinister in all this.
 
2013-12-16 05:38:03 PM  

Unobtanium: Starting with 2013, the ACA cut in half the amount of pre-tax $$ you could put into a health care spending account. Meaning you had a larger tax bite of whatever your overall tax rate was on that $2500.00.

My health insurance plans just changed for next year to a choice of "bronze," "silver," or "gold." And they are changing the choice of providers to a different single provider. The "silver" plan is roughly comparable to what I had before, and costs me $45 more per month.

I am not blaming the ACA for the second issue, but it rankles that my employer just happened to re-bid their healthcare contracts and lo and behold, we have plans that "match" the ACA, at least in name, and a premium increase. I am sure I have coworkers who will see something more sinister in all this.


2013 limits apply to FSAs, yes - but HSA's have continued to increase with COLAs.  Anything OOP above the $2,500 FSA limit is tax-deductible.

/Yes, I know that doesn't help most people, as they don't hit the 7.5% threshold.
//Or they don't itemize at all...
 
2013-12-16 06:08:01 PM  
The Americans for Prosperity TV ads are bearing fruit.  Horrible, bitter fruit!
 
2013-12-16 06:17:31 PM  

Unobtanium: Starting with 2013, the ACA cut in half the amount of pre-tax $$ you could put into a health care spending account. Meaning you had a larger tax bite of whatever your overall tax rate was on that $2500.00.

My health insurance plans just changed for next year to a choice of "bronze," "silver," or "gold." And they are changing the choice of providers to a different single provider. The "silver" plan is roughly comparable to what I had before, and costs me $45 more per month.

I am not blaming the ACA for the second issue, but it rankles that my employer just happened to re-bid their healthcare contracts and lo and behold, we have plans that "match" the ACA, at least in name, and a premium increase. I am sure I have coworkers who will see something more sinister in all this.


It makes sense. Over time most employer plans will move towards the exchange standards. They won't necessarily be the same, but they will probably become comparable. Insurance companies will prefer to reduce the variation in plans and increase standardization. It makes administration easier and makes points of competition more straightforward and understandable for the person selecting the plan.
 
2013-12-16 07:22:06 PM  

suburbanguy: Unobtanium: Starting with 2013, the ACA cut in half the amount of pre-tax $$ you could put into a health care spending account. Meaning you had a larger tax bite of whatever your overall tax rate was on that $2500.00.

My health insurance plans just changed for next year to a choice of "bronze," "silver," or "gold." And they are changing the choice of providers to a different single provider. The "silver" plan is roughly comparable to what I had before, and costs me $45 more per month.

I am not blaming the ACA for the second issue, but it rankles that my employer just happened to re-bid their healthcare contracts and lo and behold, we have plans that "match" the ACA, at least in name, and a premium increase. I am sure I have coworkers who will see something more sinister in all this.

2013 limits apply to FSAs, yes - but HSA's have continued to increase with COLAs.  Anything OOP above the $2,500 FSA limit is tax-deductible.

/Yes, I know that doesn't help most people, as they don't hit the 7.5% threshold.
//Or they don't itemize at all...


And from what I understand, that 7.5% number is supposed to rise or be changed. We itemize, but don't get anywhere near 7.5 on medical. My (now deceased) mother easily hit 7.5% the last three years.

Don't misunderstand, I am not sure the ACA is "bad," but it is a tax increase in several ways. And anyone who really thought that "you can keep you current insurance plan/doctor" were fully truthful wasn't paying attention.

The tax aspects (along with the rest of the complexity of the current system) make me understand the appeal of an alternative tax system, either a "flat" tax (with progressive tiers that are understandable), or some other system.
 
2013-12-16 07:45:49 PM  

Unobtanium: suburbanguy: Unobtanium: Starting with 2013, the ACA cut in half the amount of pre-tax $$ you could put into a health care spending account. Meaning you had a larger tax bite of whatever your overall tax rate was on that $2500.00.

My health insurance plans just changed for next year to a choice of "bronze," "silver," or "gold." And they are changing the choice of providers to a different single provider. The "silver" plan is roughly comparable to what I had before, and costs me $45 more per month.

I am not blaming the ACA for the second issue, but it rankles that my employer just happened to re-bid their healthcare contracts and lo and behold, we have plans that "match" the ACA, at least in name, and a premium increase. I am sure I have coworkers who will see something more sinister in all this.

2013 limits apply to FSAs, yes - but HSA's have continued to increase with COLAs.  Anything OOP above the $2,500 FSA limit is tax-deductible.

/Yes, I know that doesn't help most people, as they don't hit the 7.5% threshold.
//Or they don't itemize at all...

And from what I understand, that 7.5% number is supposed to rise or be changed. We itemize, but don't get anywhere near 7.5 on medical. My (now deceased) mother easily hit 7.5% the last three years.

Don't misunderstand, I am not sure the ACA is "bad," but it is a tax increase in several ways. And anyone who really thought that "you can keep you current insurance plan/doctor" were fully truthful wasn't paying attention.

The tax aspects (along with the rest of the complexity of the current system) make me understand the appeal of an alternative tax system, either a "flat" tax (with progressive tiers that are understandable), or some other system.


Yes, I believe the 7.5% is rising in 2014. I don't understand why Obama ever said "you can keep your doctor." That hasn't necessarily been true for going on a decade. Our insurance at work switched. (Both mine and my wife's.) Neither of the new plans offered my PCP. Unless you're buying out of pocket insurance on your own, you get to pick from the doctors in your plan's network. Nothing new.
 
2013-12-16 08:26:37 PM  

suburbanguy: Yes, I believe the 7.5% is rising in 2014. I don't understand why Obama ever said "you can keep your doctor." That hasn't necessarily been true for going on a decade. Our insurance at work switched. (Both mine and my wife's.) Neither of the new plans offered my PCP. Unless you're buying out of pocket insurance on your own, you get to pick from the doctors in your plan's network. Nothing new.


Because at the time Republicans were telling everyone that ACA would ban all their insurance policies and due to the law itself not a single person in the country would be able to keep their doctors.
 
2013-12-16 09:30:28 PM  

vygramul: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: But other than letting people with preexisting conditions get insurance, letting people stay on their parents' insurance while attending graduate school, creating a competitive marketplace for people to buy insurance, providing subsidies for people to purchase insurance, and building the aqueduct, what have the Romans done for us?

Don't forget creating free market economics, without which charity cannot exist. Since Jesus spoke of charity, it must have existed in 30BC Judea.


30BC? quizzicaldog.jpg

/charity exists anywhere people decide to aid someone in need.
//"charity" is a 501c3 tax scam designed to get people to pay for the CEO's weekend in Monaco while thinking they are saving someone with stage IV cancer.
 
2013-12-16 10:02:16 PM  
FTA: It's possible they're responding to fear tactics by their employers--warnings that things are only going to get tighter because of government healthcare policy. But wise employees knows to take such claims with a grain of salt, because they've been feeling the squeeze for years.

Yeah, no shiat. Like no one realized the employee contributions for health insurance went up and up every year along with office visit and drug copays. Do employers honestly think employees are going to buy the whole "because Obamacare" excuse? biatch, please.

Ok, the mouthbreathing, Fox News-watching chair moisteners will.
 
2013-12-16 10:11:07 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Yeah, no shiat. Like no one realized the employee contributions for health insurance went up and up every year along with office visit and drug copays. Do employers honestly think employees are going to buy the whole "because Obamacare" excuse? biatch, please.

Ok, the mouthbreathing, Fox News-watching chair moisteners will.


I live in Texas, so sure.

Last year, our rates dropped between 1 and 11 percent, depending on your plan.  Due to ACA directly.  Not a single mention of this at work.

This year, our rates went up 4 percent.  Company sent out a letter directly blaming ACA for it.  And the right wing twits at work talk about it constantly.
 
2013-12-16 10:20:37 PM  

Unobtanium: suburbanguy: Unobtanium: Starting with 2013, the ACA cut in half the amount of pre-tax $$ you could put into a health care spending account. Meaning you had a larger tax bite of whatever your overall tax rate was on that $2500.00.

My health insurance plans just changed for next year to a choice of "bronze," "silver," or "gold." And they are changing the choice of providers to a different single provider. The "silver" plan is roughly comparable to what I had before, and costs me $45 more per month.

I am not blaming the ACA for the second issue, but it rankles that my employer just happened to re-bid their healthcare contracts and lo and behold, we have plans that "match" the ACA, at least in name, and a premium increase. I am sure I have coworkers who will see something more sinister in all this.

2013 limits apply to FSAs, yes - but HSA's have continued to increase with COLAs.  Anything OOP above the $2,500 FSA limit is tax-deductible.

/Yes, I know that doesn't help most people, as they don't hit the 7.5% threshold.
//Or they don't itemize at all...

And from what I understand, that 7.5% number is supposed to rise or be changed. We itemize, but don't get anywhere near 7.5 on medical. My (now deceased) mother easily hit 7.5% the last three years.

Don't misunderstand, I am not sure the ACA is "bad," but it is a tax increase in several ways. And anyone who really thought that "you can keep you current insurance plan/doctor" were fully truthful wasn't paying attention.

The tax aspects (along with the rest of the complexity of the current system) make me understand the appeal of an alternative tax system, either a "flat" tax (with progressive tiers that are understandable), or some other system.


Right... but there isn't anything that the ACA or your insurance provider states "You can't see this doctor anymore!"  Would it have been more accurate to state "You can continue to see whatever doctor your insurer's actuaries say yields them the better marginal points." ??
 
2013-12-16 10:45:22 PM  

whither_apophis: vygramul: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: But other than letting people with preexisting conditions get insurance, letting people stay on their parents' insurance while attending graduate school, creating a competitive marketplace for people to buy insurance, providing subsidies for people to purchase insurance, and building the aqueduct, what have the Romans done for us?

Don't forget creating free market economics, without which charity cannot exist. Since Jesus spoke of charity, it must have existed in 30BC Judea.

30BC? quizzicaldog.jpg

/charity exists anywhere people decide to aid someone in need.
//"charity" is a 501c3 tax scam designed to get people to pay for the CEO's weekend in Monaco while thinking they are saving someone with stage IV cancer.


Some right-wing site was arguing you can't have charity without free-market economics, so the pope was anti-charity to criticize it.
 
2013-12-16 11:37:42 PM  

groppet: jaytkay: groppet: Everyone is blaming the other guy for the cost of health care going up. All I know is I am paying nearly 3 times as much for less coverage.

3 times more that what?

3 times more than I was a year ago.


Bullshiat. There's no way an increase in competition has led to an increase in prices.
 
2013-12-16 11:59:10 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Bullshiat. There's no way an increase in competition has led to an increase in prices.


It can if a sudden influx of artificially-created demand was dumped onto the market.  I can't imagine where that might have come from.
 
2013-12-17 01:20:01 AM  

Lando Lincoln: Sometimes I think about all of the brain cells that I have destroyed with beer, and then I think about people that are rallying against healthcare reform and then I don't feel so bad.


Sometimes I think about all the people who still consider Obamacare reform and then I wonder how many brain cells they've destroyed with beer.
 
2013-12-17 01:35:59 AM  

GoldSpider: Mike Chewbacca: Bullshiat. There's no way an increase in competition has led to an increase in prices.

It can if a sudden influx of artificially-created demand was dumped onto the market.  I can't imagine where that might have come from.


Moreover, you might go from a plan carefully selected to match your specific needs and desires to a one-size-fits-all ACA plan loaded with features that are of no use to you but nevertheless have to be paid for. Not to mention that the ACA plans are designed to have the young subsidize the old, the healthy subsidize the sick, and the higher-paid subsidize the lower. A state's plans are also only allowed to rate-discriminate based on two factors: age and geographic location. So somebody in, say, Stockton California might pay a much lower rate than Los Angeles. All of these factors come into play when you talk about how one's premiums change. Mine here in San Diego are going up 12% in January, and that's on a plan that was eligible for grandfathering under Obamacare.
 
2013-12-17 02:36:18 AM  
obama is a puppet for big business
 
2013-12-17 03:00:56 AM  
Is it wrong of me being nearly 25 and not caring because I never really had healthcare? I mean, I may need to invest in what my company offers but I am still in the cell of people who do not have coverage and do not care which is similar to the cell of people who do not have it and DO care.
 
2013-12-17 07:35:12 AM  

NeverDrunk23: Obamacare invited my family over to stay a week during Christmas.

Thanks O'bam.


FTFY
 
2013-12-17 08:13:22 AM  

Penoatle: Is it wrong of me being nearly 25 and not caring because I never really had healthcare? I mean, I may need to invest in what my company offers but I am still in the cell of people who do not have coverage and do not care which is similar to the cell of people who do not have it and DO care.


It's not similar at all. Unless you're independently wealthy, you're a mooch, the latter group are just victims of circumstance.

Considerable difference.

/ in before "but I don't get sick, why do I need insurance!?"
 
2013-12-17 01:37:17 PM  

soakitincider: obama is a puppet for big business


We should vote Republican to end that.
 
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