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(YouTube)   Got 40 minutes? Listen to Mike Rowe give a fantastic interview on the cost of higher education   (youtube.com) divider line 124
    More: Cool, dirty jobs, Automatic Updates, opportunity costs, Nick Gillespie  
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1006 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Dec 2013 at 1:48 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-16 12:02:55 PM
I love the way this guy thinks and he way he presents himself and his ideas. If you have the time, give him a listen.
 
2013-12-16 12:15:11 PM
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
 
2013-12-16 12:18:39 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance


Addressed.
 
2013-12-16 12:20:07 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance

Addressed.


Gotta watch this when I get home. Mike always makes a good point.
 
2013-12-16 12:31:27 PM
Without his bachelor's degree in Communications, do you think he'd be hosting Dirty Jobs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe

That degree opened the door for his gigs at local stations and subsequent other on-air jobs which followed.
 
2013-12-16 12:38:18 PM

BunkyBrewman: Without his bachelor's degree in Communications, do you think he'd be hosting Dirty Jobs?


Maybe, maybe not. The glaring problem is that there are by some estimates 250,000 skilled positions that could be filled but we're prepping...or attempting to prep our kids for a white collar existence that doesn't exist while blowing trillions in tax dollars in the attempt.
 
2013-12-16 12:40:21 PM
I don't think I've ever seen an episode of Dirty Jobs, but the sh*t this guy did on QVC back in the day makes him aces in my book.

I can't remember why, it's mostly all a haze, but back in college after we would inevitably get our cable shut off for lack of payment, we would still get one channel - QVC - and we'd watch Mike Rowe for hours on end. He was hilarious.
 
2013-12-16 12:44:29 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: BunkyBrewman: Without his bachelor's degree in Communications, do you think he'd be hosting Dirty Jobs?

Maybe, maybe not. The glaring problem is that there are by some estimates 250,000 skilled positions that could be filled but we're prepping...or attempting to prep our kids for a white collar existence that doesn't exist while blowing trillions in tax dollars in the attempt.


There is no maybe, maybe not.  His degree opened the door to obtain his first job in broadcasting.  His resume would have been tossed by the first local tv station he applied to without it.

Funny that Rowe has a bachelor's degree in communications but feels that he has enough expertise to comment on not going to college.  (although I do agree there are too many people majoring in topics that they'll never recoup their investment)
 
2013-12-16 12:47:58 PM

BunkyBrewman: There is no maybe, maybe not.


Sure there is.

BunkyBrewman: Funny that Rowe has a bachelor's degree in communications but feels that he has enough expertise to comment on not going to college.


That is addressed as well.
 
2013-12-16 01:12:39 PM
I like Mike Rowe, but frankly I'd need a whole bunch more evidence to buy into this theory of unemployment. The reality is that in 2006 we had, basically, full employment. Today we don't. The difference between then and now is not a massive upsurge of college-educated laborers; it's not like in 2006 we were glorifying welders. What's happning now is not a secret; we suffered a massive financial collapse which wiped out wealth and created a systemic shortfall in demand.
 
2013-12-16 01:21:27 PM

BunkyBrewman: Dancin_In_Anson: BunkyBrewman: Without his bachelor's degree in Communications, do you think he'd be hosting Dirty Jobs?

Maybe, maybe not. The glaring problem is that there are by some estimates 250,000 skilled positions that could be filled but we're prepping...or attempting to prep our kids for a white collar existence that doesn't exist while blowing trillions in tax dollars in the attempt.

There is no maybe, maybe not.  His degree opened the door to obtain his first job in broadcasting.  His resume would have been tossed by the first local tv station he applied to without it.

Funny that Rowe has a bachelor's degree in communications but feels that he has enough expertise to comment on not going to college.  (although I do agree there are too many people majoring in topics that they'll never recoup their investment)


What's funny?
WTF does Rowe's own degree have to do with his larger point that loads of positions are unfilled whilst
kids pursue overvalued degrees? You think he's a hypocrite because he has a degree, and dares to comment on what should be obvious to anyone in the workplace?
Ever heard of subjectivity?
 
2013-12-16 01:23:03 PM

clydedog: WTF does Rowe's own degree have to do with his larger point that loads of positions are unfilled whilst
kids pursue overvalued degrees?


Because its not a useful macroeconomic measurement. Unless this phenomenom can explain the different in unemployment between between pre- and post-crash, what is it telling us?
 
2013-12-16 01:23:40 PM

DamnYankees: What's happning now is not a secret; we suffered a massive financial collapse which wiped out wealth and created a systemic shortfall in demand


and we shipped the majority of our manufacturing jobs out of the country, creating zero need for that kind of education.  i was in the last class of my high school that had auto, metal or wood shop.  in 1998 they turned all the shops into "technology labs" and auctioned off all the equipment.  my friends and family actually talked me out of going to vocational school, because back then it was only for losers.  you either went to college or you were a wage-slave forever.  now we're getting hamstrung by our own short-sightedness.
 
2013-12-16 01:53:56 PM

doublesecretprobation: DamnYankees: What's happning now is not a secret; we suffered a massive financial collapse which wiped out wealth and created a systemic shortfall in demand

and we shipped the majority of our manufacturing jobs out of the country, creating zero need for that kind of education.  i was in the last class of my high school that had auto, metal or wood shop.  in 1998 they turned all the shops into "technology labs" and auctioned off all the equipment.  my friends and family actually talked me out of going to vocational school, because back then it was only for losers.  you either went to college or you were a wage-slave forever.  now we're getting hamstrung by our own short-sightedness.


And now a lot of our tech jobs are being shipped overseas. so what's left? Granted, we can't all be plumbers but people who might otherwise be really successful as plumbers are getting degrees in fields that just aren't marketable anymore.
 
2013-12-16 01:54:07 PM
God I hate the business tab. Where interesting threads go to die.
 
2013-12-16 01:59:02 PM
I should drop out of engineering school?
 
2013-12-16 01:59:12 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: I love the way this guy thinks and he way he presents himself and his ideas. If you have the time, give him a listen.


MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance


IMHO, done in two.

However, since the thread's still going on, I'll put in my 2 cents.  Rowe is an outstanding communicator.  He's warm, self-effacing, and because he's willing to walk mile in the moccasins of another whose life may not be as glamorous, he is respected.  Everybody on this planet could learn a lot from Mike Rowe.
 
2013-12-16 02:00:21 PM

DamnYankees: I like Mike Rowe, but frankly I'd need a whole bunch more evidence to buy into this theory of unemployment. The reality is that in 2006 we had, basically, full employment. Today we don't. The difference between then and now is not a massive upsurge of college-educated laborers; it's not like in 2006 we were glorifying welders. What's happning now is not a secret; we suffered a massive financial collapse which wiped out wealth and created a systemic shortfall in demand.


Even setting aside employment numbers, there's the question of mounting student loan debt.

As wonderful as education is (full disclosure, I have a bachelor's degree from a 4 year institution, a master's degree, and am finishing up a doctorate, so I'm a huge believer in education), if it doesn't put you on a path to some form of economic activity you might well want to reconsider college as your chosen educational path (again, full discloser, my career path is in direct alignment with my education). Laying out (or borrowing) tens of thousands of dollars per year for something that will not pay back is based on questionable wisdom at best.

Having read Mike Rowe's arguments before, he makes a good point. If you want to hold down a good job there's other ways to do it than regular college. Not everybody is cut out for college. Many people are suffering under college debt that did not serve to place them in good position for a career. If you want education there's plenty of ways to do it on the cheap (if not for free) while being prepared for or working at a decent non-white collar job. If you insist on getting a degree then there's still less expensive ways than traditional four year universities. Is such an educational path of value? Sure. Can it be obtained in an alternative way that isn't going to put you under a load of debt that will define the next couple decades of your life? Most definitely.

I do wonder if this "college for everybody" attitude has even diluted the value of a college degree. Accreditation associations hate to see high dropout or failure rates, so colleges try to make sure everyone can succeed... even people who didn't belong there in the first place. So what was once a high quality four year degree is now of middling value (and ever higher cost) and the student need to go on further to yet more expensive advanced degrees. It's a mess.

I used to share in the futile "college is better" thinking. That was wrongheaded. Mike Rowe is right. Many of our young people would be far better served by learning a skill at a reasonable price that will prepare them for real work opportunities than by going into massive debt to work toward an education that just has no professional future.
 
2013-12-16 02:01:36 PM

akula: again, full discloser


Crap. Damn typos. That should be disclosure. At least I spelled it right the first time.
 
2013-12-16 02:02:08 PM

DamnYankees: I like Mike Rowe, but frankly I'd need a whole bunch more evidence to buy into this theory of unemployment. The reality is that in 2006 we had, basically, full employment. Today we don't. The difference between then and now is not a massive upsurge of college-educated laborers; it's not like in 2006 we were glorifying welders. What's happning now is not a secret; we suffered a massive financial collapse which wiped out wealth and created a systemic shortfall in demand.


Aggregate demand has been more than restored.
 
2013-12-16 02:06:18 PM

akula: I used to share in the futile "college is better" thinking. That was wrongheaded. Mike Rowe is right. Many of our young people would be far better served by learning a skill at a reasonable price that will prepare them for real work opportunities than by going into massive debt to work toward an education that just has no professional future.


But you're not reckoning with the facts. And neither is Mike Rowe. In the interview itself, Gillespie confronts Rowe with the statistics - medial salary for college v. no-college is 100K v. 60K. Unemployment rate is 8.5% v. 4.5%. Over a lifetime, those numbers add up to an additional accrual of wealth for the college-educated which vastly outstrips the amount of debt you need to incur for college. For example, let's take a huge number of $200K for college debt. Given the actual numbers we have in front of us, it only takes the median college graduate 5 years of work over the non-college grad to make that number up. Make it 10 years if you want to count only post-tax income. Once that 10 year period is over, its all gravy.

Rowe just doesn't reckon with this at all. He waves it off using anecdotes. I like Mike Rowe a lot - seems like a great dude and a great communicator. But he's not reckoning with the facts.
 
2013-12-16 02:09:05 PM

akula: I do wonder if this "college for everybody" attitude has even diluted the value of a college degree.


i was recently passed-over for a job for which i was otherwise very well qualified (14 years experience in QA, AGILE/SCRUM, specialized experience in professional audio/video/broadcast, etc) because I did not have a bachelors degree.  they didn't care WHAT the degree was in mind you, simply that I had one.  they said that was the only reason they couldn't hire me.  i politely informed them that colleges were currently churning out kids with degrees by the thousands, and that most had zero job prospects and would probably work for peanuts.
 
2013-12-16 02:10:00 PM

DamnYankees: But you're not reckoning with the facts. And neither is Mike Rowe. In the interview itself, Gillespie confronts Rowe with the statistics - medial salary for college v. no-college is 100K v. 60K. Unemployment rate is 8.5% v. 4.5%. Over a lifetime, those numbers add up to an additional accrual of wealth for the college-educated which vastly outstrips the amount of debt you need to incur for college. For example, let's take a huge number of $200K for college debt. Given the actual numbers we have in front of us, it only takes the median college graduate 5 years of work over the non-college grad to make that number up. Make it 10 years if you want to count only post-tax income. Once that 10 year period is over, its all gravy.

Rowe just doesn't reckon with this at all. He waves it off using anecdotes. I like Mike Rowe a lot - seems like a great dude and a great communicator. But he's not reckoning with the facts.


You said reckoning thrice.  I bet you like reckoning.
 
2013-12-16 02:10:06 PM
Two boys finishing high school within the next 29 months.

I'm scared for their future stability given the structure of our economy.

/Been in the same job for 18 years--will they have that opportunity?
 
2013-12-16 02:10:23 PM
Remember when Mike Rowe stood on stage with Mitt Romney, a man who made millions destroying blue collar jobs, extolling the virtues of blue collar jobs.  Good times.  The man has a decent message, but he has to pick better delivery methods.
 
2013-12-16 02:11:20 PM

Nightjars: You said reckoning thrice.  I bet you like reckoning.


I'm a fan of dead reckoning. That's how I got my schooner from Catalina to the Faralons.
 
2013-12-16 02:15:07 PM

DamnYankees: In the interview itself, Gillespie confronts Rowe with the statistics - medial salary for college v. no-college is 100K v. 60K. Unemployment rate is 8.5% v. 4.5%. Over a lifetime, those numbers add up to an additional accrual of wealth for the college-educated which vastly outstrips the amount of debt you need to incur for college. For example, let's take a huge number of $200K for college debt. Given the actual numbers we have in front of us, it only takes the median college graduate 5 years of work over the non-college grad to make that number up. Make it 10 years if you want to count only post-tax income. Once that 10 year period is over, its all gravy.


Excellent point. I can't answer it except to wonder if those statistics are still valid in the current economy. We're currently seeing a bunch of college grads with tons of debt and little in the way of prospects.

Had they spent that money learning an actual trade skill (I'm not arguing no education at all, I'm saying we ought to maybe direct some students away from traditional universities to more vocational training), I suspect that some would be rather better off.

I don't believe there's a one size fits all answer. I do think there's more options for young people to investigate when it comes to their futures than just thinking their options for success begin and end with a four year degree. A vo-tech program in running machine tools might well make for a better life.*

*There's a difference between unskilled factory labor (which has been outsourced and will not be returning) and skilled manufacturing. You can't just come off the street and operate CNC machines.
 
2013-12-16 02:19:13 PM

akula: We're currently seeing a bunch of college grads with tons of debt and little in the way of prospects.


This is true, we are. But we're seeing even more non-college grads without any prospects at all. Rowe doesn't really seem to have anything to say to those people. And that's fine, he doesn't need to be a savior for everyone. But at least acknowledge they exist.

akula: Had they spent that money learning an actual trade skill (I'm not arguing no education at all, I'm saying we ought to maybe direct some students away from traditional universities to more vocational training), I suspect that some would be rather better off.


Well sure, some would be better off. But this is a pretty context-less phrase. This advice would be true for people even if the unemployment rate was 4% across the board. "Learn skills valuable to the economy in which you live" is good advice, but not particularly targeted.
 
2013-12-16 02:23:35 PM
Actually, even as someone who's soon going to finish a PhD (one year left) in a field that's in *high demand* (PhD in physics, but the focus is on nanotech, and half of what I do is chemistry), I'm a bit freaked, because we have UTTERLY FARKED science funding in this country.

What's really frustrating,is... I'm apparently good at teaching. Really, REALLY good at teaching. To the point where I can often even quickly figure out where a misunderstanding a student is having is coming from, and pull them back to where stuff makes sense. I am apparently a better instructor (as a TA, doing recitation), than the actual *instructor*, according to the students.

At most places, it is *impossible* to get a stable job focused on teaching at the college level, and quite frankly payment as a highschool teacher would not really be enough for me to raise a family on. (... Also I would probably murder a parent eventually.)
 
2013-12-16 02:27:31 PM

DamnYankees: But you're not reckoning with the facts. And neither is Mike Rowe. In the interview itself, Gillespie confronts Rowe with the statistics - medial salary for college v. no-college is 100K v. 60K. Unemployment rate is 8.5% v. 4.5%.


Mike is a big proponent of learning a trade.  Either going to trade school or apprenticing.  Are your numbers for those in a skilled trade, or just a lump of everyone who never completed college?
 
2013-12-16 02:28:32 PM

ShawnDoc: Mike is a big proponent of learning a trade.  Either going to trade school or apprenticing.  Are your numbers for those in a skilled trade, or just a lump of everyone who never completed college?


The lump. If you're aware of any numbers which further break down by "learned a skilled trade", I'd love to see it, but that seems to be a somewhat vague parameter.
 
2013-12-16 02:28:37 PM
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-16 02:28:52 PM

akula: Had they spent that money learning an actual trade skill (I'm not arguing no education at all, I'm saying we ought to maybe direct some students away from traditional universities to more vocational training), I suspect that some would be rather better off.


But what looks like it will be a stable trade when they're getting out of high school may not be such several years down the line, due to shifting political conditions or sudden technological innoavations. Demanding 18-year-old-kids be oracles, cast bones and read the future is kind of unfair.

Heck, I thought I would be heading into a pretty stable field (it helped that it was one I was interested in). I mean, nanotech has a *huge* number of industrial and medical applications. It's also a fairly young field-There's a *lot* to do and poke at. That said, being a young field, a lot of the research is in the early stages, and thus needing help from grants (since it's not *immediately* monetizeable). Still. An exciting, highly useful, growing field. And I'm interested in it! It's a good idea to go for a PhD in this.

And then right wing crazies went "fark FUNDING SCIENCE RESEARCH! FARK INNOVATION! 'MMERRRRIIICAAAAAAA!!!!!" and farked up a lot of NSF grants with the sequester.

And now the research future is looking REALLY tight for the next, um. Decade or so.

sooooo yeah.
 
2013-12-16 02:29:33 PM

YodaTuna: Remember when Mike Rowe stood on stage with Mitt Romney, a man who made millions destroying blue collar jobs, extolling the virtues of blue collar jobs.  Good times.  The man has a decent message, but he has to pick better delivery methods.


Yeah this. Lost all credibility at that point.

And how about instead of arguing that college isn't for everyone, we argue about why has it gotten so damn expensive? We should have universal college education. In fact we should be demanding it. All we would have to do is not outspend the next ten biggest nations in combined military spending.
 
2013-12-16 02:29:50 PM

akula: DamnYankees: In the interview itself, Gillespie confronts Rowe with the statistics - medial salary for college v. no-college is 100K v. 60K. Unemployment rate is 8.5% v. 4.5%. Over a lifetime, those numbers add up to an additional accrual of wealth for the college-educated which vastly outstrips the amount of debt you need to incur for college. For example, let's take a huge number of $200K for college debt. Given the actual numbers we have in front of us, it only takes the median college graduate 5 years of work over the non-college grad to make that number up. Make it 10 years if you want to count only post-tax income. Once that 10 year period is over, its all gravy.

Excellent point. I can't answer it except to wonder if those statistics are still valid in the current economy. We're currently seeing a bunch of college grads with tons of debt and little in the way of prospects.

Had they spent that money learning an actual trade skill (I'm not arguing no education at all, I'm saying we ought to maybe direct some students away from traditional universities to more vocational training), I suspect that some would be rather better off.

I don't believe there's a one size fits all answer. I do think there's more options for young people to investigate when it comes to their futures than just thinking their options for success begin and end with a four year degree. A vo-tech program in running machine tools might well make for a better life.*

*There's a difference between unskilled factory labor (which has been outsourced and will not be returning) and skilled manufacturing. You can't just come off the street and operate CNC machines.


CNC machine operators are worth their weight in gold. The older generation is retiring and there is not enough new blood to replace them.

To be honest though experience is key. When weighing going to school or not I factored in the experience I would gain in a field if I was able to start it early vs trudging through 4 more years of school and then starting out with that student debt etc. For me the work experience was more valuable and made for an easier transition to earning my degree (paid for by my employer)

There is something to be said for just getting on with a company and then proving yourself THEN getting a degree vs coming in with a 4year degree and thinking that somehow that makes you qualified to do something.

Disclosure I'm still working on my degree.
 
2013-12-16 02:30:32 PM

Felgraf: Actually, even as someone who's soon going to finish a PhD (one year left) in a field that's in *high demand* (PhD in physics, but the focus is on nanotech, and half of what I do is chemistry), I'm a bit freaked, because we have UTTERLY FARKED science funding in this country.

What's really frustrating,is... I'm apparently good at teaching. Really, REALLY good at teaching. To the point where I can often even quickly figure out where a misunderstanding a student is having is coming from, and pull them back to where stuff makes sense. I am apparently a better instructor (as a TA, doing recitation), than the actual *instructor*, according to the students.

At most places, it is *impossible* to get a stable job focused on teaching at the college level, and quite frankly payment as a highschool teacher would not really be enough for me to raise a family on. (... Also I would probably murder a parent eventually.)


Do you own a television ?
 
2013-12-16 02:30:58 PM

Cymbal: And how about instead of arguing that college isn't for everyone, we argue about why has it gotten so damn expensive? We should have universal college education. In fact we should be demanding it. All we would have to do is not outspend the next ten biggest nations in combined military spending.


There's 2 explanations for why college is more expensive - higher demand, and higher value. Both make sense to me.
 
2013-12-16 02:33:15 PM

jgilb: Do you own a television ?


... Yes?

TV's aren't exactly expensive or difficult to come by, and I do make enough on my grad stipend to afford one.

/On that note, I admit one of my life goals is "Become the next bill nye."
//Though I think that means I'll have to fight Bondith in a highlander-esque battle to the death.
 
2013-12-16 02:34:40 PM

jgilb: Felgraf: Actually, even as someone who's soon going to finish a PhD (one year left) in a field that's in *high demand* (PhD in physics, but the focus is on nanotech, and half of what I do is chemistry), I'm a bit freaked, because we have UTTERLY FARKED science funding in this country.

What's really frustrating,is... I'm apparently good at teaching. Really, REALLY good at teaching. To the point where I can often even quickly figure out where a misunderstanding a student is having is coming from, and pull them back to where stuff makes sense. I am apparently a better instructor (as a TA, doing recitation), than the actual *instructor*, according to the students.

At most places, it is *impossible* to get a stable job focused on teaching at the college level, and quite frankly payment as a highschool teacher would not really be enough for me to raise a family on. (... Also I would probably murder a parent eventually.)

Do you own a television ?


I admit I'm not really sure what your question has to do with the topic at hand.
 
2013-12-16 02:41:44 PM

Cymbal: YodaTuna: Remember when Mike Rowe stood on stage with Mitt Romney, a man who made millions destroying blue collar jobs, extolling the virtues of blue collar jobs.  Good times.  The man has a decent message, but he has to pick better delivery methods.

Yeah this. Lost all credibility at that point.



Seems like a PR video to stop federal spending on student loans.
 
2013-12-16 02:43:01 PM

DamnYankees: There's 2 explanations for why college is more expensive - higher demand, and higher value. Both make sense to me.


Don't forget higher subsidation as well.
 
2013-12-16 02:43:18 PM

DamnYankees: This is true, we are. But we're seeing even more non-college grads without any prospects at all. Rowe doesn't really seem to have anything to say to those people. And that's fine, he doesn't need to be a savior for everyone. But at least acknowledge they exist.


Again, he isn't saying "fark education." He's saying that vocational training is as equally valid in college and might well be more helpful. Thing is, the non-college folks who work their way up in a trade like carpentry or pipefitting might well be lumped into the same statistics as those who do not one single thing and end up mopping the floors at Walmart. Educationally the lack of degree is the same thing, but the skill level is way different.

Felgraf: But what looks like it will be a stable trade when they're getting out of high school may not be such several years down the line, due to shifting political conditions or sudden technological innoavations. Demanding 18-year-old-kids be oracles, cast bones and read the future is kind of unfair.


True, shiat happens. Even so, there's no shortage of educational paths where any sort of career prospects are minimal at best even at the outset. It's one thing to plan for a career in CNC manufacturing only to have 3D printing supplant it entirely in thirty years' time. It's another to spend $50,000 for an art history degree that qualifies you to do fark-all. The former person made an honest attempt at a career. The latter may be educationally enlightened but is otherwise poorly prepared for any specific career.

I'm not sure there's that much disagreement here among us. There's just no one simple answer to helping kids prepare for the future. We're always going to have people who realized they took the wrong path. But the more options young people see laid out for them, the better. They need to make sure they get the most bang for their educational dollar.
 
2013-12-16 02:43:49 PM

DamnYankees: clydedog: WTF does Rowe's own degree have to do with his larger point that loads of positions are unfilled whilst
kids pursue overvalued degrees?

Because its not a useful macroeconomic measurement. Unless this phenomenom can explain the different in unemployment between between pre- and post-crash, what is it telling us?


You can't read or spell very well, can you? How does your answer address my question?
Nice SAT word, though.
 
2013-12-16 02:45:52 PM

jst3p: Seems like a PR video to stop federal spending on student loans.


Not really, just a look at the impacts of these subsides have on the students and our society.  He doesn't seem to have any issue with folks going to school, however, he is a bit of an anti-debt person.  Kind of like Dave Ramsey in this respect.
 
2013-12-16 02:50:22 PM

HeadLever: jst3p: Seems like a PR video to stop federal spending on student loans.

Not really, just a look at the impacts of these subsides have on the students and our society.


I don't disagree, but his political leanings make me question his motivations.

he is a bit of an anti-debt person.  Kind of like Dave Ramsey in this respect.

I have listened to him quite a bit, and I like him. But he is an extremest and his abhorrence of debt, any debt at all, goes too far and he sometimes gives incorrect guidance, from a financial perspective, in my opinion.
 
2013-12-16 02:50:27 PM

akula: We're always going to have people who realized they took the wrong path. But the more options young people see laid out for them, the better. They need to make sure they get the most bang for their educational dollar.


Correct, his ultimate point is that you don't really need a sheepskin in order to find a good job.  You do need education and a work ethic, though.

Sometimes college is needed for certain jobs.  Many times, they don't.
 
2013-12-16 02:51:58 PM
Cymbal: YodaTuna: Remember when Mike Rowe stood on stage with Mitt Romney, a man who made millions destroying blue collar jobs, extolling the virtues of blue collar jobs.  Good times.  The man has a decent message, but he has to pick better delivery methods.

Yeah this. Lost all credibility at that point.



If we're going by the current web ad metric, he's gone from "One weird trick..." to "DRIVES LIBS NUTS!!1!"
 
2013-12-16 02:53:47 PM
Liked the interview (yes I watched the whole thing). My only gripe would be his rant on compliance. I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in watching another shirt factory fire in the US kill a bunch of young women. When you allow money to be the priority over the safety, then I have an issue.

There is a point to a quote I heard on Deadliest Catch: "It's the captain's job to get you home rich. It's your job to get you home alive." As long as the captain doesn't make it less safe through stupid practices (like bolting emergency exit doors), I'm good.

/BA in English, AS in auto service tech. Still unemployed.
//will be telling my kids to go into trades, or give me a complete plan and budget of your educational and career goals if you want to go to university
 
2013-12-16 02:56:07 PM

jst3p: I don't disagree, but his political leanings make me question his motivations.


Got to look through everythign with the political lense?  The close mindedness is a large part of what is wrong with this issue.

I have listened to him quite a bit, and I like him. But he is an extremest and his abhorrence of debt, any debt at all, goes too far and he sometimes gives incorrect guidance, from a financial perspective, in my opinion.

I feel somewhat of the same way.  I generally agree with about 90% he says.  However, I still feed my cash-back CC and pay it off every month and redeem  the points.
 
2013-12-16 02:58:33 PM

HeadLever: jst3p: I don't disagree, but his political leanings make me question his motivations.

Got to look through everythign with the political lense?


Nope, just with a healthy dose of skepticism.
 
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