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(Yahoo)   The original, unabridged Bill of Rights   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 261
    More: Cool, bill of rights, congresses, Due Process Clause, trial by jury, 1st United States Congress, James Madison, We the People, executive departments  
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13987 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2013 at 12:10 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-16 11:41:24 AM
oh yeah, this thread should be full of well reasoned discourse.
 
2013-12-16 11:50:29 AM
Not so much "original, unabridged" as "first draft," Subby.
 
2013-12-16 12:01:31 PM
didn't they read the whole thing at the beginning of the session?
 
2013-12-16 12:01:33 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Not so much "original, unabridged" as "first draft," Subby.


Precisely - the fact that portions were removed from the first draft tells as just as much about intentions as the stuff that stayed in.
 
2013-12-16 12:09:20 PM
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.
 
2013-12-16 12:12:38 PM

FlashHarry: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.


That being the reason, but obviously not a prerequisite.
 
2013-12-16 12:14:17 PM

FlashHarry: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.


If you read through all the literature from the Founding Fathers they all fairly much stated the same. They felt that people should be able to have weapons to defend the country. Right now, all those NRA lovers and Fark Gun Lovers are treasonous since they support keeping guns from felons and gangbangers.
 
2013-12-16 12:16:11 PM
cdn.theatlanticcities.com
 
2013-12-16 12:18:01 PM

Voiceofreason01: oh yeah, this thread should be full of well reasoned discourse.


irregardless, it's mute
 
2013-12-16 12:18:37 PM
"The fifteen..." (thud...crack)

"...Ten amendments".
 
2013-12-16 12:19:39 PM
Obsolete document is obsolete
 
2013-12-16 12:20:06 PM

Anayalator: [cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 608x346]


Clown shoes.

Why would you mount a scope on top of a detachable carry handle?
 
2013-12-16 12:20:10 PM

doubled99: Obsolete document is obsolete


Go to hell. 10 times.
 
2013-12-16 12:20:25 PM
i508.photobucket.com

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. No infringement of furry, furry bear arms shall ever happen
 
2013-12-16 12:22:06 PM

FlashHarry: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.


How am I supposed to regulate a well armed militia if I don't have guns are of my own?
 
2013-12-16 12:23:37 PM

vudukungfu: Voiceofreason01: oh yeah, this thread should be full of well reasoned discourse.

irregardless, it's mute


It's moot and irredardless isn't even a word!
 
2013-12-16 12:23:38 PM
Does it include the right to not to live under a Kenyan dictatorship?
 
2013-12-16 12:24:36 PM
You're a slave to money till you die.
 
2013-12-16 12:24:38 PM
Unabridged?

www.blogcdn.com
 
2013-12-16 12:24:46 PM

lockers: vudukungfu: Voiceofreason01: oh yeah, this thread should be full of well reasoned discourse.

irregardless, it's mute

It's moot and irredardless isn't even a word!


Good call.  I'll make sure never to use. it.
 
2013-12-16 12:24:57 PM
That part about mandatory root beer floats on alternate Tuesdays seemed kind of off the wall.
 
2013-12-16 12:25:03 PM
Guns don't kill people, guns kill people.
 
2013-12-16 12:25:05 PM
To bad this one seems to have not made it in

The rights of the people to be secured in their persons, their houses, their papers, and their other property, from all unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated by warrants issued without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, or not particularly describing the places to be searched, or the persons or things to be seized.

Wait..it did?
 
2013-12-16 12:25:15 PM
Funny there is no mention of healthcare.
 
2013-12-16 12:25:15 PM
Now, how can I use this information to support my assertions that the founding fathers subscribed to my liberal/conservative interpretation of the constitution?
 
2013-12-16 12:26:14 PM
Can someone explain to me what "equal rights of conscience" meant?
 
2013-12-16 12:26:55 PM

FlashHarry: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.


I hate to be impolite, but that was pretty damned stupid.

You realize defense of your life and your home *IS* defense of country, yes? You also realize not all enemies are foreign, yes?
 
2013-12-16 12:27:07 PM

FlashHarry: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.


Madison also said this:

That Government is instituted and ought to be exercised for the benefit of the people; which consists in the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the right of acquiring and using property, and generally of pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Combine that with the first line of the 2nd Amendment and it clear that he expected The People be allowed to have weapons to protect themselves.

/ I Live in California, they don't let us have much.
 
2013-12-16 12:27:23 PM
Thou shalt not neglect to pay thine taxes, unless thou art a corporation.
 
2013-12-16 12:27:26 PM
...And now our government wipes their ass with it.
 
2013-12-16 12:27:31 PM

kbronsito: Does it include the right to not to live under a Kenyan dictatorship?


Sure it does you can certainly move to Kenya without any issues.

/if you can get a visa
 
2013-12-16 12:28:44 PM

manimal2878: Why would you mount a scope on top of a detachable carry handle?


Cuz I'm a journalist who knows nothing about guns but I want a pic of an Evil Killing Machine (tm).

/ queue Journalists Guide To Firearms poster here
// I should save that someday
 
2013-12-16 12:28:49 PM

phenn: You also realize not all enemies are foreign, yes?


But all foreigners are enemies, right?
 
2013-12-16 12:30:09 PM
Obsolete document is obsolete

Go to hell. 10 times.



....like it's my fault
 
2013-12-16 12:30:17 PM
That was a really poorly-written article.
 
2013-12-16 12:30:30 PM
Is this guy writing every single farking news headline there is?

www.rawstory.com


5!  5 Things to Know!  AH AH AAHHHHH!!!
 
2013-12-16 12:31:21 PM

timujin: Can someone explain to me what "equal rights of conscience" meant?


It has something to do with football helmets and concussions
 
2013-12-16 12:31:29 PM
"No State shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or the freedom of the press, or the trial by jury in criminal cases," Madison said in the fifth part of his original Bill of Rights proposal.

Should've left that bit in.  Would have saved a lot of strife and struggle.
 
2013-12-16 12:32:42 PM

jbuist: "No State shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or the freedom of the press, or the trial by jury in criminal cases," Madison said in the fifth part of his original Bill of Rights proposal.

Should've left that bit in.  Would have saved a lot of strife and struggle.


I don't know... we might not have ended up with the 14th amendment, which by my assessment, was the single best amendment(barely beating out 1 and 5).
 
2013-12-16 12:33:18 PM
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Freedom is nice
But the rich make the rules
 
2013-12-16 12:33:55 PM

timujin: Can someone explain to me what "equal rights of conscience" meant?


Religion. You can do it or not, as you wish, but don't get any of yours on me.
 
2013-12-16 12:34:49 PM

manimal2878: Anayalator: [cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 608x346]

Clown shoes.

Why would you mount a scope on top of a detachable carry handle?


Because your penis is small.

Next question.
 
2013-12-16 12:34:53 PM

timujin: Can someone explain to me what "equal rights of conscience" meant?


I think it's a provision for religious toleration - one of those things that England lacked for much of their history following Henry VIII and the Tudor and Stuart dynasties.

Madison's original draft says this: "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed. ... No State shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or the freedom of the press, or the trial by jury in criminal cases."
 
2013-12-16 12:34:54 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: If you read through all the literature from the Founding Fathers they all fairly much stated the same.


Bullshiat.  If your read through all the "literature" from the "Founding Fathers" you will find they had a wide range of different views on everything and bickered constantly. The Constitution is a document of compromise.  The only reason the Bill of Rights exists is because several states refused ratification unless amendments were made to it.
 
2013-12-16 12:35:25 PM
Are we spawning "Fivers" now, that being people that believe these five missing items are the key to restoring the sanctity of America?
 
2013-12-16 12:35:51 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: phenn: You also realize not all enemies are foreign, yes?

But all foreigners are enemies, right?


I guess, if you just want to post silly shiat, you came to the right place.
 
2013-12-16 12:36:02 PM

manimal2878: Anayalator: [cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 608x346]

Clown shoes.

Why would you mount a scope on top of a detachable carry handle?


Do you prefer to get iron sights as backup (for a broken scopes) some other way?
 
2013-12-16 12:37:14 PM

FlashHarry: so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.


"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
--James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

You wanna try again?
 
2013-12-16 12:37:24 PM

phenn: FlashHarry: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person," said Madison.

so... at least in madison's mind, the second amendment is more to do with national defense rather than your right to defend your mcmansion with an AR-15.

I hate to be impolite, but that was pretty damned stupid.

You realize defense of your life and your home *IS* defense of country, yes? You also realize not all enemies are foreign, yes?


I hate to be impolite, but this is pretty damned stupid.

The text of the amendment-- with its specific reference to a "well-regulated militia"--and the historical context of war against a foreign power (Great Britain) make it clear that the FF's were NOT referring to home defense in the 2nd Amendment.
 
2013-12-16 12:37:25 PM

gingerjet: Princess Ryans Knickers: If you read through all the literature from the Founding Fathers they all fairly much stated the same.

Bullshiat.  If your read through all the "literature" from the "Founding Fathers" you will find they had a wide range of different views on everything and bickered constantly. The Constitution is a document of compromise.  The only reason the Bill of Rights exists is because several states refused ratification unless amendments were made to it.


John Jay was a Catholic hating prick for instance, and wanted to ban them from holding office
 
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