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(CBS Sports)   New NFL rules designed to protect QBs and WRs, conspicuously leaves out punters   (cbssports.com) divider line 153
    More: Stupid, Bengals, NFL, Kevin Huber, Steelers, quarterback, Mike Nugent  
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2346 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Dec 2013 at 12:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



153 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-16 11:10:27 AM  
I saw that last night. That was a really cheap shot.
 
2013-12-16 11:34:48 AM  

WTFDYW: I saw that last night. That was a really cheap shot.


No shiat.  The guy is a punter.  No way in hell do you put a hit on a guy like that.  Had he been a QB, dude would have been ejected from the game and every sports show would be talking about it.  Today?  Nada.
 
2013-12-16 11:42:26 AM  
Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.
 
2013-12-16 11:43:05 AM  
Oh, and this is the second Steelers hate thread of the morning.
 
2013-12-16 12:00:24 PM  

2wolves: Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.


His jaw is broken. Not chest to chest. The punter making a play on the ball is irrelevant.

2wolves: Oh, and this is the second Steelers hate thread of the morning.


You are a pathetic tool, you know that? Your willful ignorance about the damage done to the punter's face and your ongoing persecution complex regarding the Steelers is very nearly grounds for a plonking.
 
2013-12-16 12:02:28 PM  
The other thread is better.  The linked story points to the rules which do state the punter is defenseless, making this headline incorrect, where the other headline is trollier.
 
2013-12-16 12:05:02 PM  

2wolves: Chest to chest hit.


And what else usually collides in a "chest to chest" hit?
 
2013-12-16 12:10:38 PM  
Are onside kick returners not protected either?
 
2013-12-16 12:11:36 PM  
i remember a game about a decade ago, where.....i think it was Chris Gardocki, no tsure, but....anyways.  He hit this massive sky shot punt and was admiring his work, and since he was watching the ball he didn't see the defensive player at a full sprint.  dude trucked the punter, whomever it was.

the comedy was the punter lying on the ground, shooting double birds at the defensive sideline.  i kinda recall ESPN showing the "JACKED UP!" highlight but blurring out the middle fingers.
 
2013-12-16 12:11:48 PM  

mainstreet62: His jaw is broken. Not chest to chest. The punter making a play on the ball is irrelevant.


think he meant they were squared up, that it wasn't a blindside peelback.
 
2013-12-16 12:11:51 PM  
Pick a thread, but the rules are clear and they include punters.

Article 6:  Unnecessary Roughness.    There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to:
(h) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the down or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position.  However, a kicker/punter is a defenseless player through the conclusion of the down (see Article 7);

Article 7:  Players in a Defenseless Posture.  It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return (Also see Article 6(h) for additional restrictions against a kicker/punter);
 
2013-12-16 12:12:19 PM  

scottydoesntknow: 2wolves: Chest to chest hit.

And what else usually collides in a "chest to chest" hit?


If you have the intelligence of a snail you have a real cage which helps protect you.

Take a look at the video and see the Bengals #40 doing a head to head hit, from the side, with Brown.  Where's the outrage?
 
2013-12-16 12:12:59 PM  

2wolves: Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.


Leading with the crown of the helmet, and helmet to helmet contact.
 
2013-12-16 12:14:37 PM  
He wasn't a protected class once he made a move to tackle. Are you people high?
 
2013-12-16 12:14:41 PM  
Yesterday wasn't a good day for punters.  Two of them took it to the chin, one got a broken jaw and one made the highlight blooper reel.
 
2013-12-16 12:14:52 PM  

Leader O'Cola: Are onside kick returners not protected either?


if you're referring to Fitz, i don't think he was targeted by the Titans dude.  now, it was H2H but not "intentional", in my opinion.  that's what happens on onside kicks.

sad to see Fitzy on the sidelines during OT.  I was saying in the other thread, he had that "faraway" look in his eyes.  pick your analogy - "lights are on, no one's home", etc.  He looked lost.  Not good.  gahhh.  and it was instant.  the moment he got clocked the ball came out.  Very un-Fitzlike.
 
2013-12-16 12:14:58 PM  
Punter tries to make a tackle. Punter would have been in position to make the tackle if not for defender. Defender tackles him squarely from the front. The only reason punter doesn't see it coming is that punter isn't watching where he's going.

Was the helmet-to-helmet aspect nasty? Yes. Fine-worthy? Maybe. I don't know the criteria. But the purpose of the "defenseless" rules is to guard players who have no choice about what position to be in. From that perspective, the punter was about as far as defenseless as you can get.
 
2013-12-16 12:15:01 PM  
The punter was trying to make a play. That makes him fair game. If your punter is fragile, don't have him try and tackle.

And what made that hit crazy was that the punter wasn't watching what he was doing.  He had no awareness of the play and what was going on. He got blindsided because he was trying to act like a football player when in fact he is just a punter.
 
2013-12-16 12:15:58 PM  

foo monkey: Pick a thread, but the rules are clear and they include punters.

Article 6:  Unnecessary Roughness.    There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to:
(h) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the down or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position.  However, a kicker/punter is a defenseless player through the conclusion of the down (see Article 7);

Article 7:  Players in a Defenseless Posture.  It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return (Also see Article 6(h) for additional restrictions against a kicker/punter);


He was moving towards the ball carrier, not standing still.
He was in the play and very close to the ball carrier's path.
He was not defenseless.
 
2013-12-16 12:16:32 PM  
Three seconds from watch-where-you're-going simulpost.
 
2013-12-16 12:18:11 PM  

2wolves: Oh, and this is the second Steelers hate thread of the morning.


How is this a "Steeler hate thread"?  Who's hating on the Steelers, in here?  Maybe you're too sensitive...
 
2013-12-16 12:18:45 PM  

2wolves: Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.


1) The first part of Garvin's person or equipment to touch Huber's person or equipment was Garvin's helmet. That is unequivocally not a chest-to-chest hit.

2) It's irrelevant whether the punter was making a play on the ball as he is still defenseless based on the rules posted by foo monkey earlier in the thread.
 
2013-12-16 12:19:22 PM  

KickahaOta: Three seconds from watch-where-you're-going simulpost.


Lag
 
2013-12-16 12:20:37 PM  

Serious Black: 2wolves: Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.

1) The first part of Garvin's person or equipment to touch Huber's person or equipment was Garvin's helmet. That is unequivocally not a chest-to-chest hit.

2) It's irrelevant whether the punter was making a play on the ball as he is still defenseless based on the rules posted by foo monkey earlier in the thread.


Which I addressed.
 
2013-12-16 12:21:11 PM  

2wolves: Take a look at the video and see the Bengals #40 doing a head to head hit, from the side, with Brown. Where's the outrage?


Step 1: At all costs, deflect talking about what a player on your favorite team did that was so despicable to another player.

Step 2: FARKING PHYSICS, HOW DOES IT WORK? Specifically the momentum transfer of head-on (near zero degree) collisions vs. angled collisions?
 
2013-12-16 12:21:48 PM  

mainstreet62: 2wolves: Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.

His jaw is broken. Not chest to chest. The punter making a play on the ball is irrelevant.


The first things that hit was the punter's jaw and the other guy's helmet. Cheap cheap shot.

Of course the Pittsburgh player followed up with a push of his arms but still...
 
2013-12-16 12:22:50 PM  

2wolves: Oh, and this is the second Steelers hate thread of the morning.


Good. Fark em.
 
2013-12-16 12:23:00 PM  

2wolves: Serious Black: 2wolves: Chest to chest hit.  Punter was making a play towards the ball.

1) The first part of Garvin's person or equipment to touch Huber's person or equipment was Garvin's helmet. That is unequivocally not a chest-to-chest hit.

2) It's irrelevant whether the punter was making a play on the ball as he is still defenseless based on the rules posted by foo monkey earlier in the thread.

Which I addressed.


When did he stop being a kicker or punter during the return?
 
2013-12-16 12:24:10 PM  
Does Fark have a Whiny Pussy of the Year award (WPOTY)?
 
2013-12-16 12:25:04 PM  
Hey Bengals,

This guy is available:

i171.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-16 12:25:34 PM  
The Steelers are as bad as the Raiders for playing smear the queer instead of organized football. That was an attempt to take a man out, pure and simple, and was successful.
 
2013-12-16 12:27:11 PM  

2wolves: Oh, and this is the second Steelers hate thread of the morning.


I rarely use the favorites option, but you get "whiny biatch with a persecution complex" for your dogged refusal to stop being a whiny biatch with a persecution complex.
 
2013-12-16 12:29:29 PM  

2wolves: Oh, and this is the second Steelers hate thread of the morning.


Steelers hate thread - check
Rush hate thread - check

Damn, not a good day to be a fan of either.

/still expecting news of a fine
 
2013-12-16 12:30:02 PM  
 
2013-12-16 12:30:21 PM  
Punters have the right to run off the field immediately after the kick if they want to avoid contact
 
2013-12-16 12:34:41 PM  

rickythepenguin: i remember a game about a decade ago, where.....i think it was Chris Gardocki, no tsure, but....anyways.  He hit this massive sky shot punt and was admiring his work, and since he was watching the ball he didn't see the defensive player at a full sprint.  dude trucked the punter, whomever it was.

the comedy was the punter lying on the ground, shooting double birds at the defensive sideline.  i kinda recall ESPN showing the "JACKED UP!" highlight but blurring out the middle fingers.


I remember that. Damn the internet, I can't find the video.

cdn.bleacherreport.net
 
2013-12-16 12:35:06 PM  

Serious Black: 2) It's irrelevant whether the punter was making a play on the ball as he is still defenseless based on the rules posted by foo monkey earlier in the thread.



Okay, I had another look and I think you're right.

~Article 6: Unnecessary Roughness. There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to: [...] (h) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the down or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, a kicker/punter is a defenseless player through the conclusion of the down (see Article 7);

So this rule says that if you're a punter and you're standing still or fading backwards, you're protected until you assume a distinctly defensive position. This punter did assume a distinctly defensive position. So article 6(h) goes away. But let's look at article 7:

~Article 7: Players in a Defenseless Posture. It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture. ~(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [...] ~(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return (Also see Article 6(g) for additional restrictions against a kicker/punter);

So this rule says that a punter is "in a defenseless posture" throughout the return, regardless of what he is doing, even attempting a tackle.

Unlike Article 6, this rule penalizes specific forms of contact. What does it penalize?

~(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

~(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player's head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact of the defender's helmet or facemask is lower than the passer's neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him;


~Note 2: A player who initiates contact against a defenseless opponent is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball from an opponent. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a defenseless opponent, even if the opponent is an airborne player who is returning to the ground or whose body position is otherwise in motion, and irrespective of any acts by the defenseless opponent, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

So under these rules, a punter is allowed to stand in whatever damnfool position he chooses during the return; and if you wind up forcibly hitting him in the head (and breaking the jaw certainly qualifies as "forcible"), that's a personal foul, regardless of how hard you tried or didn't try to avoid the headshot.

I don't like that rule much, because it seems like it encourages the punter to be reckless; but that's the rule.
 
2013-12-16 12:41:16 PM  

2wolves: Chest to chest hit.


So the top of a shoulder is a chest now?
 
2013-12-16 12:42:29 PM  
Huber is obviously no graduate of the Terry Garvin School of Self Defense.
 
2013-12-16 12:42:54 PM  
There will be a fine, probably should be.

If the punter doesn't want to get blocked he can run his ass over to the sidelines instead of trying to make a tackle. If he stands in the way he's a target.
 
2013-12-16 12:43:42 PM  

Serious Black: 2) It's irrelevant whether the punter was making a play on the ball as he is still defenseless based on the rules posted by foo monkey earlier in the thread.


Thank you.  The headline is incorrect, because the rules are very clear on the matter.  However, it's irrelevant due to the helmet-to-chin contact.
 
2013-12-16 12:45:22 PM  

cdn.bleacherreport.net


"AAAAAAAAAAHHHH MEEEUNNNNNN, LOOGADWHA HEEEEZ WURRIN!!! HEEEZ VVVIRDYOOLEE AXIN' FURRIT! *burp* *vomit*"

 
2013-12-16 12:47:02 PM  
They'll still fine James Harrison, even though that was his teammate and he got knocked out of the game.
 
2013-12-16 12:47:20 PM  

KickahaOta: Punter tries to make a tackle. Punter would have been in position to make the tackle if not for defender. Defender tackles him squarely from the front. The only reason punter doesn't see it coming is that punter isn't watching where he's going.


So much this...
 
2013-12-16 12:48:28 PM  

js34603: There will be a fine, probably should be.

If the punter doesn't want to get blocked he can run his ass over to the sidelines instead of trying to make a tackle. If he stands in the way he's a target.


Yes, the punter can get hit here but not in this manner. An open palm shove would have accomplished the exact same thing.
 
2013-12-16 12:53:29 PM  

bluorangefyre: They'll still fine James Harrison, even though that was his teammate and he got knocked out of the game.


As they should... On principle.  :)

It was a cheap shot, but it did look legal.  He was far from defenseless if he was moving to make a tackle.  I don't think anyone can argue that he was finishing his kick at that point.
 
2013-12-16 12:55:50 PM  
The Steelers keep playing dirty and cheating, and they still get sold as the wholesome family owned product of the venerable Rooney clan.  It's sad.

On the plus side, it's rare for the Bengals to be the classier franchise on a field.
 
2013-12-16 01:02:37 PM  

The Muthaship: The Steelers keep playing dirty and cheating, and they still get sold as the wholesome family owned product of the venerable Rooney clan.  It's sad.

On the plus side, it's rare for the Bengals to be the classier franchise on a field.


I'm not sure which point the Steelers should be more ashamed of. This presupposes they could actually feel shame...

img.gawkerassets.com

Oh just forget it...
 
2013-12-16 01:09:25 PM  

plewis: bluorangefyre: They'll still fine James Harrison, even though that was his teammate and he got knocked out of the game.

As they should... On principle.  :)



Ndamukong Suh Fined $75,000, Just To Wrap Things Up
http://www.theonion.com/articles/ndamukong-suh-fined-75000-just-to-w ra p-things-up,27030/
 
2013-12-16 01:15:31 PM  
Man, there is some shiatty reading comprehension going on in here.

 While my Bengals played like ass, they certainly didn't get any help (or calls) from the officials.  2nd play on offense, Polomalu makes a play in the backfield, causing Cris Collinsworth to exclaim- "he practically made the tackle before the ball got there!"  To which myself and everyone else at the bar as was say, "So, um, isn't that pass interference?"
 
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