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(CareerBuilder)   Millennials think they are just too damn special to need a job   (msn.careerbuilder.com) divider line 180
    More: Obvious, telecommuting, company culture  
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3983 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Dec 2013 at 8:55 PM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-15 07:41:03 PM
Are there actually jobs available?
 
2013-12-15 07:59:01 PM

Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?


I hear you can clear $50k a year begging.  AND it's tax free.
 
2013-12-15 07:59:47 PM

Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?


If you have actual skills that will be needed, probably.   I see all these articles about graduates without jobs and they for the most part have English or Psychology or other degree's like that.... go get a friggin medical or IT degree if you don't want to complain after graduation about lack of work.  Your English degree is about as useful as a basket weaving degree... possibly less so, at least as a really good basket weaver you could go on the craft show circuit and sell some goods.... unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability that people want to read, it is pretty useless, unless you are focused on going into education.
 
2013-12-15 08:04:44 PM
I'm technically a Gen Xer. I'm not working in a job without flexible work from home options and clear expectations which are kept by the company. Why in the heck should anyone? Most jobs could easily accommodate working from home one day a week. If someone tells me before I took the job that I can adjust my schedule for a meeting I have once a month or a weekly therapy appointment then I expect them to honor that.
 
2013-12-15 08:08:05 PM
Oh you poor little things.....pat pat pat.
 
2013-12-15 08:10:50 PM
Once again, As a whole we are a less keeping up with the Joneses generation because we have seen that plan fail. We watched our parents and grandparents have their pensions and 401K ripped apart and 20~30 years of hard work written off by Wall St. spinning off debt into shell corporations and going chapter 11.

I'm not going to waste my time working for empty promises like that, either give me what you said you would in the offer letter or expect me to seek legal recourse (yes I have done this). Treat employees right and they will work for you, or treat them like crap and wonder why you have high turnover. There is no assumption of stability in the job market and reason to think any company wouldn't at-will you out the door in a second, why give them any more respect than they give you?

The point of this article isn't that Millennials don't want to work, it is that they have re-evaluated the employer/worker relationship and are not going to be the settle in, keep your head down, and do 20 years drone that may have existed in the past. There is no point of allowing a job to define your life if the job won't result in anything in the end but having stressed out working long hours for a place that is just going to fire you right before your full benefits package kicks in or offer you no possible advancement.

But sure, subby keep trying to make the Millennials out to be the bad guys instead of admit they are just better BS detectors

//seriously read the article, has nothing to do with the headline
 
2013-12-15 08:23:45 PM
Simple: this is the generation that gave up. Too demoralized and angry at life itself they see no future and don't really care.
 
2013-12-15 08:33:44 PM

dletter: Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?

If you have actual skills that will be needed, probably.   I see all these articles about graduates without jobs and they for the most part have English or Psychology or other degree's like that.... go get a friggin medical or IT degree if you don't want to complain after graduation about lack of work.  Your English degree is about as useful as a basket weaving degree... possibly less so, at least as a really good basket weaver you could go on the craft show circuit and sell some goods.... unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability that people want to read, it is pretty useless, unless you are focused on going into education.


As a small business owner in the tech sector (and who happens to have an English degree), I find this analysis offensive.  I've carved out a very good living converting geek to english because of the substandard documentation and communications skills I encounter every day.

Critical and strategic thinking coupled with the ability to communicate is a feature of every professional job.
 
2013-12-15 08:36:42 PM
No, they aren't - they are reacting to the environment they grew up in, which has been two solid decades of unmitigated corporate greed. They suffer no illusions that the places they work for are anything other than a check and another rung up the ladder.
 
2013-12-15 08:36:44 PM
The oldest millennials are early 30s now, so, how many have actually found the Dream Job?  That's the age where most people are still trying out different opportunities and mainly working in entry level positions in most companies.  When you're young and unattached you have more freedom to switch jobs than you do once you're married with kids to support.  It's the time to take some risks with employment to try to find that right company and position.
 
2013-12-15 08:40:39 PM
I always love (read: despise) this theory of economic reality. As though in 2008, all of the sudden the population just became so much lazier.

Its a tremendous amount of chutzpah. It's as though your parents set fire to your car, and then got mad at your for being too lazy to become a mechanic.
 
2013-12-15 08:50:24 PM
That's because we realize the only people getting rich are business owners. Fark working for someone else.

/planning on making pretty much all of my money from now until forever on investments. I've been royally farked out of the job market, and employer shenanigans are the reason I can't get food stamps
//hr said talk to temp agency, temp agency said talk to hr, California says "Can't prove you're not working? No food stamps for you!"
 
2013-12-15 08:53:36 PM

DamnYankees: It's as though your parents set fire to your car, and then got mad at your for being too lazy to become a mechanic.


Right.

I think it's more like seeing that your parents' car got stolen, so you say, "Fark cars.  I want a pony."
 
2013-12-15 08:56:27 PM

unyon: dletter: Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?

If you have actual skills that will be needed, probably.   I see all these articles about graduates without jobs and they for the most part have English or Psychology or other degree's like that.... go get a friggin medical or IT degree if you don't want to complain after graduation about lack of work.  Your English degree is about as useful as a basket weaving degree... possibly less so, at least as a really good basket weaver you could go on the craft show circuit and sell some goods.... unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability that people want to read, it is pretty useless, unless you are focused on going into education.

As a small business owner in the tech sector (and who happens to have an English degree), I find this analysis offensive.  I've carved out a very good living converting geek to english because of the substandard documentation and communications skills I encounter every day.

Critical and strategic thinking coupled with the ability to communicate is a feature of every professional job.


Except the hard sciences and deep medicine. You don't have to communicate if you pull someone's brain apart and put it back together less cancer and have them survive and recover fine or put a golf ball in a dixie cup 20 million miles away on autopilot and ten have the golf ball whip out a drill and tell you which planet the cup's from.

They'll find a translator for you then.
 
2013-12-15 08:56:41 PM
My brother-in-law is a millennial and he's true to type; changes his job every couple of months.  Of course, he has to change his job because his employers keep firing him.  They foolishly insist that he show up to work and stay awake during the work day.  My sister keeps saying he's just holding out for a management position.
 
2013-12-15 08:59:24 PM

dletter: unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability


i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-15 09:03:28 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: DamnYankees: It's as though your parents set fire to your car, and then got mad at your for being too lazy to become a mechanic.

Right.

I think it's more like seeing that your parents' car got stolen, so you say, "Fark cars.  I want a pony."



Only if the local banker repossesed the car AFTER it was paid off, the kept the car where you could see it, and cruised around town farking hookers in it, and somehow sending you the bill for gas.

Wall Street can't steal your pony.
 
2013-12-15 09:09:57 PM
Millennials have seen the corporate world fark their parents five different ways and in all their holes out of pensions, 401(k)s, relationships with their families, their health and well-being, and the one thing they can never get back - their time. They have realized that no one but a psychopath will want "I wish I had worked more" engraved on their tombstone, and have resolved not to make the mistakes that cost their parents (and by extension, them) so dearly.
 
2013-12-15 09:11:36 PM
The article is about how being honest and communicating with your employees can make them better workers and save you money. If you're anywhere in business and don't already know this, you're the problem, not them.

Sure, there are some few people who are over-entitled, but there are far more who know the importance of communication, flexibility, and reward. Rote dronery for years without advancement is not a valid option anymore, because it's ineffective. It's bad business.
 
2013-12-15 09:11:48 PM
Lots of good points in this thread.

... I have nothing to add
 
2013-12-15 09:16:55 PM

vartian: No, they aren't - they are reacting to the environment they grew up in, which has been two solid decades of unmitigated corporate greed. They suffer no illusions that the places they work for are anything other than a check and another rung up the ladder.


This. I busted my ass once. Interned for peanuts, moved away from the wife, worked a second job to afford the dual household costs, and ended up getting a full time position that paid well, had great benefits, and had a defined career path. Then some new VP gets a look at the balance sheet and outsources the whole department. That was designing cell phone interfaces and technical support software. Apparently it was a horrible mistake to outsource technical support software to non-English speakers and the work slowly started trickling back. I thought I might have a chance at my old position. But you know what? A week before this Thanksgiving, they laid off everyone, AGAIN.

Now? I work in Newspaper. Make a little bit more than what I made interning. And you know what? I don't care. Newspaper's not going anywhere, even if I get to see it die. That stability is worth more than the extra scratch I might be able to get elsewhere. I could bust my ass, get some certifications, and pound out a new portfolio, but why do that when I'll be facing the same bullshiat? Why do that, when the rug could come out from under me at any time?

There's morons who will call me lazy, spoiled, entitled, and what have you. There is nothing I could do to please them. It wouldn't be enough to study and get a job doing cell phone technology, one of the fastest and most prolific industries in the world, I obviously didn't work hard enough or with the right company, or didn't study in the right field.
I remember reading an article about how to get a job in this economy in my field. It pretty much said "Go back in time and intern with Google while at college."
 
2013-12-15 09:17:33 PM
"Be completely honest with Millennial candidates about your company culture. Craft job descriptions that are transparent, streamline the onboarding process and provide mentors to new hires. Doing so will ensure you're doing all you can to fulfill the promises you initially presented. "

Yeah, but then they'll realize you're planning on either getting them to do work totally unrelated to their field that a few years ago would have been done by admin and support staff or that you're trying to scam them with entry level pay for a non-entry level job. Or both.
 
2013-12-15 09:18:35 PM

doglover: Benevolent Misanthrope: DamnYankees: It's as though your parents set fire to your car, and then got mad at your for being too lazy to become a mechanic.

Right.

I think it's more like seeing that your parents' car got stolen, so you say, "Fark cars.  I want a pony."


Only if the local banker repossesed the car AFTER it was paid off, the kept the car where you could see it, and cruised around town farking hookers in it, and somehow sending you the bill for gas.

Wall Street can't steal your pony.


So you do what - depend on someone else to feed your pony?  Mucking out a stable is a drag - who does that?  And what happens when you actually need the pony but you did nothing to keep it and it died?

Anyone who thinks they don't need to save for retirement and that working sucks and doesn't do anything for you has the foresight of a goddamn gnat.
 
2013-12-15 09:20:53 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The oldest millennials are early 30s now, so, how many have actually found the Dream Job?  That's the age where most people are still trying out different opportunities and mainly working in entry level positions in most companies.  When you're young and unattached you have more freedom to switch jobs than you do once you're married with kids to support.  It's the time to take some risks with employment to try to find that right company and position.


Basically, this.  The source of the author's claim is that 60% of millennials quit within three years of graduation.  How uncommon is this?  For all of the reasons Tute pointed out, young people tend to move around more generally and leaving before three years is up doesn't seem too ridiculous nowadays.  Is this really news?

doglover: Except the hard sciences and deep medicine. You don't have to communicate if you pull someone's brain apart and put it back together less cancer and have them survive and recover fine or put a golf ball in a dixie cup 20 million miles away on autopilot and ten have the golf ball whip out a drill and tell you which planet the cup's from.

They'll find a translator for you then.


And people wonder why academic writing is so horrid.

/I find it funny that this author is basically re-writing a Forbes article that the author even links in her article.
 
2013-12-15 09:22:49 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone who thinks they don't need to save for retirement and that working sucks and doesn't do anything for you has the foresight of a goddamn gnat.


Of course people think you need to save for retirement. It's just pretty obvious that working isn't going to do it with the wages offered (my workplace doesn't even do 401K matching), and even if you do manage to scrape something together, one misstep by Wall Street could wipe out the whole thing.
 
2013-12-15 09:24:03 PM

cman: this is the generation that gave up


Life's hard. take it pass/fail.
 
jgi
2013-12-15 09:24:28 PM
If you want something, you have to take it. Nobody will give it to you. You won't get anywhere being a corporate whipping boy your entire life. If you must have a corporate job, deal with it, stash some cash, and take as much as you can. Pens, copy paper... customer accounts... and use all that stuff to start your own business. They don't care about you. Millennials have no employer loyalty because employers are no longer loyal to their employees. Don't let anybody push you around. You can be a good person, thoughtful, mindful, but you aren't a doormat. And, as a bonus, when you start showing your backbone people treat you with a lot more respect.
 
2013-12-15 09:24:54 PM

dletter: Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?

If you have actual skills that will be needed, probably.   I see all these articles about graduates without jobs and they for the most part have English or Psychology or other degree's like that.... go get a friggin medical or IT degree if you don't want to complain after graduation about lack of work.  Your English degree is about as useful as a basket weaving degree... possibly less so, at least as a really good basket weaver you could go on the craft show circuit and sell some goods.... unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability that people want to read, it is pretty useless, unless you are focused on going into education.


I have an English degree and have a good job that pays reasonably well with really good benefits...so...neener neener neener
 
2013-12-15 09:26:06 PM
Another thing is companies are often reluctant to give out raises or promotions to people already working for them, or promotions come with a low-ball raise. A lot of the time switching jobs can be the only way to obtain promotions that match your experience combined with a market rate raise, while loyally sticking around can often lead to career stagnation and your income falling behind.

I've lost count of the number of people I know who have asked for a raise, been denied or low-balled, gone out and gotten a new job offer and then suddenly their current employer discovers a new-found generosity 5 seconds after they hand in their notice.

YMMV. Offer not available in all fields.
 
2013-12-15 09:26:42 PM
This went over well in the last Millennial-hate thread (and I happen to agree with it), so I'll post it again:

blifetoday.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-15 09:29:11 PM

Target Builder: Another thing is companies are often reluctant to give out raises or promotions to people already working for them, or promotions come with a low-ball raise. A lot of the time switching jobs can be the only way to obtain promotions that match your experience combined with a market rate raise, while loyally sticking around can often lead to career stagnation and your income falling behind.


This is the story of everyone I know who has any particular skill. You just don't get raises or into good positions by staying with a company, in most cases. You need to shop around.

The majority of people I know had to get a degree - we were told to. Then you can't get anything but an entry-level job that you could have done without a degree. You just put up with it for a while, then move on to greener pastures now that you have the "3-5 years experience" that every single job posting requires, inching a bit closer to a decent salary.
 
2013-12-15 09:29:29 PM

Vampire Lake: dletter: Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?

If you have actual skills that will be needed, probably.   I see all these articles about graduates without jobs and they for the most part have English or Psychology or other degree's like that.... go get a friggin medical or IT degree if you don't want to complain after graduation about lack of work.  Your English degree is about as useful as a basket weaving degree... possibly less so, at least as a really good basket weaver you could go on the craft show circuit and sell some goods.... unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability that people want to read, it is pretty useless, unless you are focused on going into education.

I have an English degree and have a good job that pays reasonably well with really good benefits...so...neener neener neener


When it comes to degrees and jobs there are jobs with legal/regulatory requirements for certain degrees, like doctors and lawyers, jobs where specialized training/knowledge (though not necessarily in the form of a degree) is necessary to do the job, like lab work, software development, or engineering, and jobs where they just want people with a degree and will train you how to do the job after you've signed on, like a lot of corporate/office positions.

Unless you're looking for something in a field that requires a specific degree or specific training, any degree is better than none to get your foot in the door in the corporate world.  Do some internships while you're in college, network and get to know people, and once you're working just prove yourself so that you can either move up in the company that you start with or use the experience you gain there to leverage a position at another company down the road.
 
2013-12-15 09:32:53 PM
My experience in the workforce has been that you keep looking for someplace better to work, or you wait for the place you're at to screw you over, and most of the people I know seem to have similar experiences.
 
2013-12-15 09:35:57 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone who thinks they don't need to save for retirement and that working sucks and doesn't do anything for you has the foresight of a goddamn gnat.

Of course people think you need to save for retirement. It's just pretty obvious that working isn't going to do it with the wages offered (my workplace doesn't even do 401K matching), and even if you do manage to scrape something together, one misstep by Wall Street could wipe out the whole thing.


Ah.  So that's why, when I got my workers a government-guaranteed defined-benefit pension this year, and got the Board to approve contributing more than the employee, the Millennials all immediately threatened to quit because they were required to join.  The argument was, in a nutshell, "Yeah, I know you old farts think this is a great benefit.  But I don't give a fark about saving for retirement and you shouldn't be able to make me if I don't want to."

Or, to put it in the right tone, "I hate you, you ruined my life!" <slams bedroom door>
 
2013-12-15 09:36:43 PM
FTFA: Why are 60 percent of Millennials leaving their dream jobs?

Because 60% of Millennials have helicopter parents that will let their precious snowflakes live at home rent free?
 
2013-12-15 09:39:37 PM

Ghastly: FTFA: Why are 60 percent of Millennials leaving their dream jobs?

Because 60% of Millennials have helicopter parents that will let their precious snowflakes live at home rent free?


Know how I know you didn't read the article?
 
2013-12-15 09:40:21 PM
Once they have kids Millenials will probably be more willing to settle in on their job.  It's easy to switch when nothing is tying you down, and if kids aren't tying you down then you are a terrible parent.
 
2013-12-15 09:40:32 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone who thinks they don't need to save for retirement and that working sucks and doesn't do anything for you has the foresight of a goddamn gnat.


Anybody who thinks that there are people who treat working as a joke and think that it doesn't do anything for you, much less thinks that this type of thinking is somehow limited to a single generation, has the intelligence of a goddamn gnat.

/but my goodness, you're going to let us know all about your feelings on the subject
 
2013-12-15 09:42:23 PM

unyon: dletter: Bucky Katt: Are there actually jobs available?

If you have actual skills that will be needed, probably.   I see all these articles about graduates without jobs and they for the most part have English or Psychology or other degree's like that.... go get a friggin medical or IT degree if you don't want to complain after graduation about lack of work.  Your English degree is about as useful as a basket weaving degree... possibly less so, at least as a really good basket weaver you could go on the craft show circuit and sell some goods.... unless your English degree is backed up by some actual good writing ability that people want to read, it is pretty useless, unless you are focused on going into education.

As a small business owner in the tech sector (and who happens to have an English degree), I find this analysis offensive.  I've carved out a very good living converting geek to english because of the substandard documentation and communications skills I encounter every day.

Critical and strategic thinking coupled with the ability to communicate is a feature of every professional job.


this, times a billion. most of what gets churned out of IT is done with the attitude of "throw everything at R&D, the product will sell itself".

the world doesn't work that way.

as for the abundance of work in IT: nationwide, IT has a higher unemployment rate than manufacturing (and much higher than financial services)

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t14.htm
 
2013-12-15 09:42:26 PM
Life is hard and then you die.  That's a lesson they need beaten into their lazy asses
 
2013-12-15 09:49:11 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone who thinks they don't need to save for retirement and that working sucks and doesn't do anything for you has the foresight of a goddamn gnat.

Anybody who thinks that there are people who treat working as a joke and think that it doesn't do anything for you, much less thinks that this type of thinking is somehow limited to a single generation, has the intelligence of a goddamn gnat.

/but my goodness, you're going to let us know all about your feelings on the subject


Oh, so sorry, I hadn't realized that the little "Comment:" box here was for Not Commenting.

All you Millennials who keep telling me how wrong I am... come on up here to Northern Alberta for a job.  The work is hard, and the climate sucks in winter, but the pay is great and the benefits are amazing compared to the US.
 
2013-12-15 09:50:24 PM

jgi: And, as a bonus, when you start showing your backbone people treat you with a lot more respect.

you will get fired.

fixed.
 
2013-12-15 09:51:07 PM
Better to leave when you can than when life circumstances make it a harder decision.

I left my job in August for my mental health, and the day my last pay check came in, I found out that I had a tumour on my adrenal gland.  Haven't been able to work in months now, however I've now had the surgery and recuperating well from it - so I should be ok come the new year when companies in my field will look at hiring again.

In hindsight, you bet I wish I hadn't quit my job. I'd have been able to spend all of this time on sick leave that I"d acquired throughout the years. I wouldn't be broke right now.  But that's life and shiatty timing for ya.

Cheers to the new year, because this one's been shiat.

/CSB
 
2013-12-15 09:51:33 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Ah. So that's why, when I got my workers a government-guaranteed defined-benefit pension this year, and got the Board to approve contributing more than the employee, the Millennials all immediately threatened to quit because they were required to join. The argument was, in a nutshell, "Yeah, I know you old farts think this is a great benefit. But I don't give a fark about saving for retirement and you shouldn't be able to make me if I don't want to."


I'm not sure there's a sentence of that that I'd believe.
 
2013-12-15 09:53:05 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Life is hard and then you die.  That's a lesson they need beaten into their lazy asses


t0.gstatic.com
We convinced them that life has to be hard!
 
2013-12-15 09:53:08 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: All you Millennials who keep telling me how wrong I am... come on up here to Northern Alberta for a job. The work is hard, and the climate sucks in winter, but the pay is great and the benefits are amazing compared to the US.


Ah, Canada. Oil job? No wonder it sounds like a different world.
 
2013-12-15 09:53:35 PM

The Googles Do Nothing: Once they have kids Millenials will probably be more willing to settle in on their job.  It's easy to switch when nothing is tying you down, and if kids aren't tying you down then you are a terrible parent.


Depends on field and opportunities. Kids are pretty adaptable, even when moving to other countries.
 
2013-12-15 09:54:55 PM
Funny thing is most of the things on this list are available on IT fields if you have the skills.  I make my living retraining people and helping them find new careers as software developers.  It often surprises me how many people are intelligent and even employed but absolutely hate their jobs and want something more cerebral with more flexible hours and quit their jobs to train with me.
 
2013-12-15 10:00:22 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Benevolent Misanthrope: Ah. So that's why, when I got my workers a government-guaranteed defined-benefit pension this year, and got the Board to approve contributing more than the employee, the Millennials all immediately threatened to quit because they were required to join. The argument was, in a nutshell, "Yeah, I know you old farts think this is a great benefit. But I don't give a fark about saving for retirement and you shouldn't be able to make me if I don't want to."

I'm not sure there's a sentence of that that I'd believe.


Why not?  It's true.

I worked to get my employees onto a guaranteed defined-benefit pension plan that our organization now qualifies for.  They do still exist in Canada.
Then I had to talk our Board into approving it when the organization contributes 1% more than the employees do.
Then I had to get the funding for it.
Then we implemented.
Then I had 6 people in HR, all under the age of 30, saying they don't think they should be required to contribute to retirement if they don't want to, and if I didn't reverse the implementation to make retirement optional, they would quit.

/Then I told HR to start preparing for some separations and new hires, and a re-vamp of the org chart.
 
2013-12-15 10:02:20 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Benevolent Misanthrope: All you Millennials who keep telling me how wrong I am... come on up here to Northern Alberta for a job. The work is hard, and the climate sucks in winter, but the pay is great and the benefits are amazing compared to the US.

Ah, Canada. Oil job? No wonder it sounds like a different world.


Nope.  NGO, actually.  Things are different here - one of the biggest being that Canada actually seems to give a shiat about the quality of life of its people.  Health care, schools, libraries, rec centers, and other social things are fully funded - because quality of life is important.
 
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