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(Medpage Today)   FDA approves migraine stopping magnets. APPLY DIRECTLY TO BACKHEAD   (medpagetoday.com) divider line 49
    More: Cool, FDA, magnets, response rate, migraines  
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2716 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Dec 2013 at 1:22 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-15 12:12:37 PM  
Farking migraines, how do they work?
 
2013-12-15 12:29:11 PM  

dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?


We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.
 
2013-12-15 01:37:13 PM  

flucto: dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?

We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.


Well, we kind of know how they work.  Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain is the most significant measurable thing that is common to all migraine attacks.

We don't know why they work.  Migraine sufferers have a range of external triggers.  And we have very little info about internal triggers or mediating factors.
 
2013-12-15 01:37:16 PM  
Needs more flux.
 
2013-12-15 01:38:49 PM  
Is this thing for home use?
 
2013-12-15 01:44:32 PM  
I'll stick with my ketamine IVs that completely end my migraines for 6-8 weeks and reduce them for another 3-4
 
2013-12-15 01:45:55 PM  
I'd be curious to see how this supposedly helps. I spent grad school hanging around/under a 17T magnet for hours a day, still got plenty of migraines. If this device actually works reliably at getting rid of migraines (and associated symptoms) within a couple hours, I'll sign over my first born to get one.
 
2013-12-15 01:48:08 PM  

NeoCortex42: I'd be curious to see how this supposedly helps. I spent grad school hanging around/under a 17T magnet for hours a day, still got plenty of migraines. If this device actually works reliably at getting rid of migraines (and associated symptoms) within a couple hours, I'll sign over my first born to get one.


Reading TFA, it only helped approx 35% of the people in the study.  And the placebo device helped 10-15%.  So don't go filling out any adoption paperwork just yet.
 
2013-12-15 01:48:16 PM  
WARNING: concurrent use of iron supplements may cause your brain to be pulled thru your lambdoid suture.
 
2013-12-15 01:53:31 PM  

jjorsett: WARNING: concurrent use of iron supplements may cause your brain to be pulled thru your lambdoid suture.


Guessing that's not a problem for the magnetic panacea crowed.
 
2013-12-15 01:53:48 PM  

FrancoFile: NeoCortex42: I'd be curious to see how this supposedly helps. I spent grad school hanging around/under a 17T magnet for hours a day, still got plenty of migraines. If this device actually works reliably at getting rid of migraines (and associated symptoms) within a couple hours, I'll sign over my first born to get one.

Reading TFA, it only helped approx 35% of the people in the study.  And the placebo device helped 10-15%.  So don't go filling out any adoption paperwork just yet.


Yeah, I'd like the effectiveness closer to 80-90% at least. 35% still looks like they might be onto something, though. Hopefully it leads to pinpointing what is actually effective about it and refining it.

Of course, there are several different types of migraines, so there may never be a one-size-fits-all device.
 
2013-12-15 01:56:13 PM  

NeoCortex42: FrancoFile: NeoCortex42: I'd be curious to see how this supposedly helps. I spent grad school hanging around/under a 17T magnet for hours a day, still got plenty of migraines. If this device actually works reliably at getting rid of migraines (and associated symptoms) within a couple hours, I'll sign over my first born to get one.

Reading TFA, it only helped approx 35% of the people in the study.  And the placebo device helped 10-15%.  So don't go filling out any adoption paperwork just yet.

Yeah, I'd like the effectiveness closer to 80-90% at least. 35% still looks like they might be onto something, though. Hopefully it leads to pinpointing what is actually effective about it and refining it.

Of course, there are several different types of migraines, so there may never be a one-size-fits-all device.


Exactly.  It would be more appropriate to call migraine a syndrome.
 
2013-12-15 02:00:59 PM  

FrancoFile: Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain


It is argued by brain guys I know, and I am generally of at the other end, if you get my meaning, that ischemia is a symptom and not the cause. Something much weirder going on, apparently. Which is why big ass magnets seem like a perfect cure, cause why not?
 
2013-12-15 02:04:27 PM  
But, but, but EMFs cause teh cancer!!!
 
2013-12-15 02:06:28 PM  

flucto: FrancoFile: Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain

It is argued by brain guys I know, and I am generally of at the other end, if you get my meaning, that ischemia is a symptom and not the cause. Something much weirder going on, apparently. Which is why big ass magnets seem like a perfect cure, cause why not?


I think the blood stuff is in the middle.  They've done some work relating ice cream headache to migraines.  The ice cream headache occurs when cold stuff on the soft palate causes arterial constriction there, right underneath the brain pan.

/if you get an ice cream headache, slowly sip warm water - make sure you get it up on the roof of your mouth.
//takes care of it in just a minute!
 
2013-12-15 02:06:30 PM  
"Some 38% of patients reported that migraine pain was eliminated within 2 hours, and 34% were pain-free 24 hours later. In comparison, patients treated with a sham device had 2- and 24-hour response rates of 17% and 10%, respectively, the FDA said. "

Most of my migraines last from early morning to about 11AM, even without treatment, so this is irrelevant to my interests.
 
2013-12-15 02:11:35 PM  

FrancoFile: flucto: dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?

We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.

Well, we kind of know how they work.  Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain is the most significant measurable thing that is common to all migraine attacks.

We don't know why they work.  Migraine sufferers have a range of external triggers.  And we have very little info about internal triggers or mediating factors.


That would suggest a vasodilator might be an effective treatment.
 
2013-12-15 02:14:37 PM  

NeoCortex42: I'd be curious to see how this supposedly helps. I spent grad school hanging around/under a 17T magnet for hours a day, still got plenty of migraines. If this device actually works reliably at getting rid of migraines (and associated symptoms) within a couple hours, I'll sign over my first born to get one.


It's a magnetic pulse, not a static field. Guessing dΦ/dt here is a lot higher than anything you got exposed to.
 
2013-12-15 02:16:22 PM  
35% of test subjects with the actual device reported alleviation of the headache within 2 hours. The device had no effect on the other migraine symptoms. The primary side effect is dizziness. How is this in any way better than the current treatment(s)? If this thing relieved the (literally) blinding pain within a few minutes and had a 75-90% success rate, I'd consider it.

I'll stick with massive quantities of caffeine and prescription narcotic painkillers, thanks. Yeah, this method puts me in bed for several hours, but it works a lot better than the reported success rate in TFA.

/Literally blinding- as in, I can't see shiat out of one or both eyes
//Migraines suck
 
2013-12-15 02:17:18 PM  

jjorsett: WARNING: concurrent use of iron supplements may cause your brain to be pulled thru your lambdoid suture.


yousaiditman.com
 
2013-12-15 02:18:12 PM  

Bondith: FrancoFile: flucto: dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?

We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.

Well, we kind of know how they work.  Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain is the most significant measurable thing that is common to all migraine attacks.

We don't know why they work.  Migraine sufferers have a range of external triggers.  And we have very little info about internal triggers or mediating factors.

That would suggest a vasodilator might be an effective treatment.


And yet they're not, so go figure. A drug that could effectively relive migraines would be a multi billion dollar block buster so it must be a thorny problem.
 
2013-12-15 02:20:22 PM  

flucto: Bondith: FrancoFile: flucto: dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?

We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.

Well, we kind of know how they work.  Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain is the most significant measurable thing that is common to all migraine attacks.

We don't know why they work.  Migraine sufferers have a range of external triggers.  And we have very little info about internal triggers or mediating factors.

That would suggest a vasodilator might be an effective treatment.

And yet they're not, so go figure. A drug that could effectively relive migraines would be a multi billion dollar block buster so it must be a thorny problem.


Yeah, after I typed that I figured that experts in the field would have thought of and tested that hypothesis already.
 
2013-12-15 02:26:25 PM  

Bondith: flucto: Bondith: FrancoFile: flucto: dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?

We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.

Well, we kind of know how they work.  Restricted blood flow to certain parts of the brain is the most significant measurable thing that is common to all migraine attacks.

We don't know why they work.  Migraine sufferers have a range of external triggers.  And we have very little info about internal triggers or mediating factors.

That would suggest a vasodilator might be an effective treatment.

And yet they're not, so go figure. A drug that could effectively relive migraines would be a multi billion dollar block buster so it must be a thorny problem.

Yeah, after I typed that I figured that experts in the field would have thought of and tested that hypothesis already.


No, Big Vaso suppressed the research results.
 
2013-12-15 02:28:33 PM  

FrancoFile: No, Big Vaso suppressed the research results.


Big magnets has better political attraction.
 
2013-12-15 02:39:10 PM  
Afthead :P
 
2013-12-15 02:46:06 PM  

lordargent: Afthead :P


That's for bowhead.
 
2013-12-15 03:10:24 PM  
2hr/24hr success rates or 38%/34%?  Yea, thanks, I'll continue to take my two Imetrix and have a nearly 100% success rate in < 1hr.
 
2013-12-15 03:37:41 PM  
This is a very interesting area.  These devices have shown some potential in treating PTSD (http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(98)0001 6-X/abstract ), or can make you temporarily blind (can't find the reference, but quite certain).

If it doesn't solve the (my opinion) more pressing problems of photo-sensitivity, nausea, dizziness, etc  associated with a migraine, and really only works for a small piece of the total, maybe other areas would be more promising.  I'm sure this technology has value, just not for migraines.

Cheers.
 
2013-12-15 03:39:02 PM  
This isn't magic, magnets have been around for healing for centuries, they just increase blood flow. Like already mentioned head aches are an excess of blood flow to the head, which is why the throbbing is so bad. Migraines are an inadequate blood flow issue, so something that just speeds up blood flow and o2 delivery isn't anything mystical or new.
 
2013-12-15 03:40:27 PM  
Why not just stick your head in the microwave for 10 seconds? Wedge a spoon in the door slot so it'll turn on with the door open.
 
2013-12-15 03:44:31 PM  

Magnanimous_Spirit: This isn't magic, magnets have been around for healing for centuries, they just increase blood flow. Like already mentioned head aches are an excess of blood flow to the head, which is why the throbbing is so bad. Migraines are an inadequate blood flow issue, so something that just speeds up blood flow and o2 delivery isn't anything mystical or new.


Yet going into an MRI doesn't do a damn thing to make me feel better. Or is this one of those stupid homeopathic things where less magnetism is supposedly more?
 
2013-12-15 03:49:26 PM  

Magnanimous_Spirit: This isn't magic, magnets have been around for healing for centuries, they just increase blood flow. Like already mentioned head aches are an excess of blood flow to the head, which is why the throbbing is so bad. Migraines are an inadequate blood flow issue, so something that just speeds up blood flow and o2 delivery isn't anything mystical or new.


Citation please
Most 'healing' with magnets is placebo effect as, unlike this device, most of those 'healing' bracelets and such don't produce fields strong enough to penetrate skin much less provide large scale effects in the blood stream. If you have some reference that really documents your claim, I'd really like to read it (not sarcasm).
 
2013-12-15 03:49:48 PM  
APPLY-DIRECTLY-TO-BACKHEAD

Where, exactly?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-12-15 04:04:37 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Yet going into an MRI doesn't do a damn thing to make me feel better. Or is this one of those stupid homeopathic things where less magnetism is supposedly more?


This isn't just a magnet.  A static magnetic field has very little, if any, biological effect.  What they're talking about is TMS - transcutaneous magnetic stimulation.  It uses a relatively weak magnetic field, but the important thing is exactly how the magnetic field changes over time (it's a very brief magnetic pulse).  You can cause neurons to fire from a magnetic stimulus of the proper frequency, very much like making nerves fire from electrical stimulation, but without drilling holes in the skull to insert electrodes.  You can also use TMI to reduce neural activity for a time, by providing a different kind of stimulus.

Basically, they are stimulating or suppressing brain activity in certain parts of the brain and found an effect.  The thing that strikes me as interesting is that (given the location described in the article), they're doing this to the primary visual cortex.
 
2013-12-15 04:10:42 PM  
Oh, and I would say, I'd take this with a bit of a grain of salt, because it would be very obvious to the person receiving the treatment if you had the experimental or placebo machine.  You'd definitely notice some strange visual effects when the pulse went off, so the control group may not be an accurate control.
 
2013-12-15 04:25:44 PM  
I'm going to start a rumor that this device has off-label usage as an impotence cure.
 
2013-12-15 04:57:03 PM  
Hearing all the horror stories, I'm kind of glad I've never had to find out what a headache feels like.  Sounds horrible.
 
2013-12-15 05:25:42 PM  

Cpl.D: Hearing all the horror stories, I'm kind of glad I've never had to find out what a headache feels like.  Sounds horrible.


You've never had a headache? Is that even plausible? Are you a tai chi master or something?
 
2013-12-15 06:27:23 PM  
If the side effect is even more dizziness, yuck, forget this. I'll stay with my half baked triptans, ice packs and multiple curses at a god I have ceased to believe exists.
 
2013-12-15 07:33:24 PM  
Number one treatment of choice is Alka Seltzer followed by super strong Peets coffee.  Alka used to come in a caffeinated form and it was brilliant, but they decided to pull it off the market, re-market it as hangover pills, and then pull it off the market again. So, it was back to the coffee, which is so much fun to make when my brain hurts.

Number two treatment of choice is Zomig, which dissolves in the mouth.  Unfortunately, I wind up really feeling the inside of my epidermis all day long after taking one.

The thing with migraines is that it is sudden vasodilation that causes problems. Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor. Nicotine is purportedly one as well, but I'm not taking up smoking any time soon.
 
2013-12-15 07:38:29 PM  

Contents Under Pressure: Number two treatment of choice is Zomig, which dissolves in the mouth. Unfortunately, I wind up really feeling the inside of my epidermis all day long after taking one.


Anyone else read that as ZOMG?  I think Netspeak is getting to me.
 
2013-12-15 08:17:51 PM  
FDA approved =/= Efficacious

The FDA's hands are actually tied on approval of certain products, limiting them to only approving that the product in question doesn't pose a health hazard.  FDA approval is not proof or disproof of the product's effectiveness.  In fact, the FTC is the government entity that handles that stuff (under false advertising claims), and they're so horribly underfunded that they don't usually have the resources to do anything about it.
 
2013-12-15 09:26:46 PM  
Migraines suck.  That is all.
 
2013-12-15 09:31:44 PM  

Contents Under Pressure: Number one treatment of choice is Alka Seltzer followed by super strong Peets coffee.  Alka used to come in a caffeinated form and it was brilliant, but they decided to pull it off the market, re-market it as hangover pills, and then pull it off the market again. So, it was back to the coffee, which is so much fun to make when my brain hurts.

Number two treatment of choice is Zomig, which dissolves in the mouth.  Unfortunately, I wind up really feeling the inside of my epidermis all day long after taking one.

The thing with migraines is that it is sudden vasodilation that causes problems. Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor. Nicotine is purportedly one as well, but I'm not taking up smoking any time soon.


Have you tried bc powder instead of coffee? Its a powdered form of caffeine and asprin. Just down it (fair warning its bitter as all hell) after the seltzer, the aspirin wouldn't do much I doubt but its a good instant shot of caffeine.
 
2013-12-15 10:51:05 PM  

funkyeuph: FDA approved =/= Efficacious

The FDA's hands are actually tied on approval of certain products, limiting them to only approving that the product in question doesn't pose a health hazard.  FDA approval is not proof or disproof of the product's effectiveness.  In fact, the FTC is the government entity that handles that stuff (under false advertising claims), and they're so horribly underfunded that they don't usually have the resources to do anything about it.


Farkitol is FDA-approved fro use in some primates possibly including humans or maybe hairy dolphins!
 
2013-12-15 10:53:53 PM  
Really? Nobody in this thread has done it yet?

Fine.....

cdn2-b.examiner.com
 
2013-12-15 11:12:02 PM  

mainstreet62: Really? Nobody in this thread has done it yet?

Fine.....

[cdn2-b.examiner.com image 600x337]


Like so
 
2013-12-15 11:45:09 PM  

flucto: dahmers love zombie: Farking migraines, how do they work?

We aren't exactly sure. Please continue to suffer while we work it out.


As long as you're not hitting your head against the wall.
 
2013-12-16 02:49:09 AM  
flucto: That's for bowhead.

Bowhead?

i.telegraph.co.uk

www.faecdn.com

1.bp.blogspot.com

flavorwire.files.wordpress.com
 
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