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(IGN)   Nintendo planned on selling 9 million Wii U systems by the end of the 2014 fiscal year. After selling 222,000 in November, they only need to average 2 million units a month to reach that goal   (ign.com) divider line 122
    More: Sad, Wii U, Nintendo, Wii, Andrew Goldfarb  
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2090 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Dec 2013 at 6:03 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



122 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-14 05:23:49 PM
It might help if people knew it existed. Just a thought.
 
2013-12-14 06:06:03 PM
people would rush to buy it if they knew they could earn a turd in nintendoland
 
2013-12-14 06:12:10 PM
Hardware and good games don't drive saves anymore.  Video games are dead.
 
2013-12-14 06:16:38 PM
Who knew that the epic sega vs nintendo battle would end with both of them languishing (and maybe both dying).

What I want out of Nintendo is their games, the hardware, not so much.

// haven't owned a piece of Nintendo hardware since the SNES and that makes me sad.

img195.imageshack.us
 
2013-12-14 06:19:19 PM
i guess in fairness to nintendo, microsoft and sony are just straight beating them down in both sales, demand and mindshare right now

that said, it goes beyond saying that if the best mario in years with the promise of mario kart and super smash brothers in a few months doesn't get people to buy a wii u, then games aren't really the problem

maybe they should slash the price to $249? maybe take the touchscreen pad out and reduce the price to $199? something to create some buzz
 
2013-12-14 06:20:19 PM

lordargent: Who knew that the epic sega vs nintendo battle would end with both of them languishing (and maybe both dying).

What I want out of Nintendo is their games, the hardware, not so much.

// haven't owned a piece of Nintendo hardware since the SNES and that makes me sad.

[img195.imageshack.us image 400x300]


not sure what that picture has to do with the wii u
 
2013-12-14 06:20:39 PM

Mike_LowELL: Hardware and good games don't drive saves anymore.  Video games are dead.


All the cool kids are having sex these days anyway
 
2013-12-14 06:21:04 PM
Nintendo is sticking with what worked in the 80s and 90s.  They think teenagers are still innocent snowflakes

Microsoft and Sony are sticking with what works now.. Pandering to racist 13 year olds with sailor mouths
 
2013-12-14 06:29:18 PM

Smeggy Smurf: All the cool kids are having sex these days anyway


Sex was so much fun when it was just with the computer.  Once I started playing with other humans, I realized how bad I was at it, and stopped trying.
 
2013-12-14 06:30:13 PM
The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.  What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?  The launch titles, some were a year old (Arkham City??  Call of Duty?)

The Mario games are even re-hashes.  There hasn't been a great Mario game since Galaxy, 6 years ago!
 
2013-12-14 06:32:10 PM

buntz: What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?


Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, and Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate, and Super Mario 3D World are all on my list when I finally get one of the damn things.
 
2013-12-14 06:33:37 PM

buntz: The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.  What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?  The launch titles, some were a year old (Arkham City??  Call of Duty?)

The Mario games are even re-hashes.  There hasn't been a great Mario game since Galaxy, 6 years ago!


galaxy 2 was better than galaxy 1, 3d land was arguably in that group of great 3d mario games, 3d world is pretty great too

now the 2d marios you have a point about - they're all rehashes
 
2013-12-14 06:34:58 PM
So, probably not going to meet their goal?
 
2013-12-14 06:41:29 PM

Mike_LowELL: Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, and Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate, and Super Mario 3D World


AdamK: galaxy 2 was better than galaxy 1, 3d land was arguably in that group of great 3d mario games, 3d world is pretty great too


I wouldn't call those "must haves" not great launch titles anyway....

And Galaxy 2 WAS a better game, but my point was it was still the same game.

3d World was a DS game first so although it may be better on the Wii U, it's not a game designed FOR the WiiU.

Releasing Wind Waker again is a slap in the face, just like releasing Ocarina of Time for the 3DS launch was!
 
2013-12-14 06:42:54 PM

Lanadapter: people would rush to buy it if they knew they could earn a turd in nintendoland


wut?
 
2013-12-14 06:43:45 PM
Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.
 
2013-12-14 06:46:10 PM

buntz: Mike_LowELL: Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, and Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate, and Super Mario 3D World

AdamK: galaxy 2 was better than galaxy 1, 3d land was arguably in that group of great 3d mario games, 3d world is pretty great too

I wouldn't call those "must haves" not great launch titles anyway....

And Galaxy 2 WAS a better game, but my point was it was still the same game.

3d World was a DS game first so although it may be better on the Wii U, it's not a game designed FOR the WiiU.

Releasing Wind Waker again is a slap in the face, just like releasing Ocarina of Time for the 3DS launch was!


uh, in what ways was it not designed for the wii u?

as for wind waker hd and ocarina of time 3ds, how were those slaps in the face? both were great ports, superior even to their originals
 
2013-12-14 06:48:08 PM

LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.



Ad over a hundred years of being a successful, solvent company, I suppose.
 
2013-12-14 06:48:35 PM

simplicimus: It might help if people knew it existed. Just a thought.


Might help if it didn't suck. I can't really see a difference between it and the Wii.

At least the Xbone and Pornstation 4 have substantially upgraded hardware.
 
2013-12-14 06:49:06 PM

LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.


You know they made money off the wii right?
 
2013-12-14 06:58:56 PM

Smackledorfer: You know they made money off the wii right?


4.bp.blogspot.com

They can afford to make a mistake with the WiiU and figure things out.

They really need a new IP.
 
2013-12-14 06:59:16 PM

buntz: I wouldn't call those "must haves" not great launch titles anyway....


I'd rather have any of those games than anything which is currently out for a One or a Four, the least of which notwithstanding that most of what's desirable for the One and the Four is going to be available on a PC, anyway.
 
2013-12-14 07:01:34 PM

Primitive Screwhead: Smackledorfer: You know they made money off the wii right?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 388x241]

They can afford to make a mistake with the WiiU and figure things out.


Reminds me of my favorite interview with John Carmack.


When asked about project 'x' being a risky move his answer was along the lines of, 'we have enough money and traction with such little overhead that we can afford for our next two projects to be complete failures an not worry about it.  So we get to take risks that a lot of other companies couldn't.'
 
2013-12-14 07:04:33 PM

lordargent: Who knew that the epic sega vs nintendo battle would end with both of them languishing (and maybe both dying).

[img195.imageshack.us image 400x300]


Sega has been a really successful publisher since they gave up on the console wars. They've bought up a lot of assets outside of their historical comfort zone and made themselves into a tidily profitable company with a lot less risk. Nintendo, on the other hand has continued to fight what is ultimately going to be a losing battle and dug their Mario-Zelda-Mario-Zelda hole so deep that they probably couldn't find their way out of it if they tried.
 
2013-12-14 07:09:45 PM

Primitive Screwhead: Smackledorfer: You know they made money off the wii right?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 388x241]

They can afford to make a mistake with the WiiU and figure things out.

They really need a new IP.


they can afford to sure, but in the long term any steps taken backward have to be fixed with the next iteration... if it isn't fixed, then that "cushion" turns into "disaster"

i don't think the wii u will turn into a disaster, it's got enough features to remain salvageable, it's just how much fat needs to be cut away and where does the internal restructuring take nintendo's first party efforts going forward

i remember the ps3 being called an un-salvageable disaster in 2007 too, granted it sold more than the wii u its first year as well but most of those sales weren't resulting in game purchases which set them back with 3rd parties anyways

Mike_LowELL: buntz: I wouldn't call those "must haves" not great launch titles anyway....

I'd rather have any of those games than anything which is currently out for a One or a Four, the least of which notwithstanding that most of what's desirable for the One and the Four is going to be available on a PC, anyway.


sure, any secondary platform is only worth it for the exclusives... i'm PC primary for the foreseeable future, so this is definitely the case with me, i think between the xbone and ps4 only dead rising 3 is my "must have"... i feel like the rest of the launch games will fall into obscurity before the end of 2014
 
2013-12-14 07:09:57 PM
I think it was the kinnect that killed their niche market.
 
2013-12-14 07:16:12 PM
This is what happens when you don't put out a new Mario Kart in over 5 years.
 
2013-12-14 07:16:34 PM

Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.

You know they made money off the wii right?


Yes, but it was still a mistake. They made money because they kept the BOM low - but they defied the formula that Sony and Microsoft were using to gain market share... sell the system at a loss (at least initially) to provide superior hardware and make up for it with game sales.

The SNES, in its time, was revolutionary. The Nintendo systems that followed, not so much.

Attracting developers with an underpowered systems is difficult, if not impossible, and Nintendo had to carry the system with its own exclusive titles. That isn't the way to gain market share.. all that accomplishes is maintaining your most loyal fans, many of whom are still buying other systems and finding themselves spending more time on those other systems.

The DS is another example of Nintendo missing the boat. Pocket gaming is moving toward smart phones, has been for a long time. Why would people spend another $200 on the latest DS and carry it around (with game cartridges) when they can have everything they need in the phone they already carry around?

How much money could Nintendo be making if they had their DS catalog available iOS or Android markets, where you have billions of customers?

Nintendo is like an incredibly successful horsewhip company in 1915, thinking they will be able to reverse their fortunes with the latest model horsewhip, not understanding where all their customers are going.
 
2013-12-14 07:23:37 PM

buntz: The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.


Currently they have more available than 1 or 4.

buntz: What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?


I never liked the term "must have games."  There are no such things as must have games.  Games are a luxury not a necessity.  No systems have ever had a "must have game."

buntz: The Mario games are even re-hashes.


In the same sense the all castlevania games since the first are re-hashes.

buntz: There hasn't been a great Mario game since Galaxy

.

Lost credibility here.

For Nintendo doom prophets, I suppose someone should point out that Microsoft has never made money off the Xbox and Sony's level of profitability is also not exactly spectacular either.  Of the three companies, Nintendo has the best solvency so it is not like they are on the verge of collapse.
 
2013-12-14 07:25:55 PM
Try releasing a product without stupid gimicky controls.
 
2013-12-14 07:31:42 PM

LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.

You know they made money off the wii right?

Yes, but it was still a mistake. They made money because they kept the BOM low - but they defied the formula that Sony and Microsoft were using to gain market share... sell the system at a loss (at least initially) to provide superior hardware and make up for it with game sales.

The SNES, in its time, was revolutionary. The Nintendo systems that followed, not so much.

Attracting developers with an underpowered systems is difficult, if not impossible, and Nintendo had to carry the system with its own exclusive titles. That isn't the way to gain market share.. all that accomplishes is maintaining your most loyal fans, many of whom are still buying other systems and finding themselves spending more time on those other systems.

The DS is another example of Nintendo missing the boat. Pocket gaming is moving toward smart phones, has been for a long time. Why would people spend another $200 on the latest DS and carry it around (with game cartridges) when they can have everything they need in the phone they already carry around?

How much money could Nintendo be making if they had their DS catalog available iOS or Android markets, where you have billions of customers?

Nintendo is like an incredibly successful horsewhip company in 1915, thinking they will be able to reverse their fortunes with the latest model horsewhip, not understanding where all their customers are going.


You consider the DS a failure...

Wtf.

No I seriously have no ability to respond to that without being insulting.
 
2013-12-14 07:33:39 PM

lilplatinum: Try releasing a product without stupid gimicky controls.


The controllers are fine. I would even say great. I love the nunchuck. I don't have a wii.

The way games choose to utilize the additional functions is the issue.
 
2013-12-14 07:35:36 PM
Have you ever heard of a Wii game called Da Blob? I just wanted to ask- it is awesome for all ages and music geeks-
 
rpm
2013-12-14 07:36:07 PM

Gergesa: buntz: The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.

Currently they have more available than 1 or 4.


Yeah, and those don't have enough to buy either.

More != enough.
 
2013-12-14 07:38:44 PM
Not even Nintendo seriously expects to hit that target.  But given that the Wii U is tracking behind the GameCube and Sega Dreamcast, they're going to need hardware that's less expensive with new IPs accessible to a wider audience next time around (like Wii Sports was).
 
2013-12-14 07:46:28 PM
Nintento's main problem is that its product line is too small.

both Sony and Microsoft have exposure to PCs and mobile devices, which are eating consoles' share of gaming.

in 2008, consoles had 42% share, 37% for PCs and 5% for mobile.

now, PCs are at 51%, consoles are at 30%, and mobile is at 13%.

 http://gearnuke.com/pc-dominates-market-51-console-30-mobile-13-acc ord ing-new-report/
 
2013-12-14 07:51:27 PM

buntz: 3d World was a DS game first so although it may be better on the Wii U, it's not a game designed FOR the WiiU.


You do realize 3D World and 3D Land are completely different games right? 3D World is the first to be 4 player and has some neat mechanics in it I'm really looking forward to.

I 4-starred 3D Land. Not going to bother getting the top of all the flagpoles. But it's fun!
 
2013-12-14 07:52:23 PM
Wait, their FY ends in April? Normally it's September, right? I just woke up, someone check my math.
 
2013-12-14 07:55:26 PM

AdamK: as for wind waker hd and ocarina of time 3ds, how were those slaps in the face? both were great ports, superior even to their originals


Maybe slap in the face isn't the right expression here.

Good ports, yes.  But not 'launch" titles.  Just ports.

And maybe "must have" games isn't right either.  Just simply not "event" games.

I would think if I was going to launch a new system, I would have a game created, a NEW game, that I really want to play.  Releasing a new Mario or Zelda title with the Wii U that I couldn't play in some way on another system is what I mean.
So Wind Waker, though looking great, is still the same game.

Releasing a game like Zombie U certainly wasn't an event or must have!
 
2013-12-14 07:56:01 PM
Oh. Nevermind. Read the article.
 
2013-12-14 07:58:37 PM

Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

The DS is another example of Nintendo missing the boat. Pocket gaming is moving toward smart phones, has been for a long time. Why would people spend another $200 on the latest DS and carry it around (with game cartridges) when they can have everything they need in the phone they already carry around?

How much money could Nintendo be making if they had their DS catalog available iOS or Android markets, where you have billions of customers?

Nintendo is like an incredibly successful horsewhip company in 1915, thinking they will be able to reverse their fortunes with the latest model horsewhip, not understanding where all their customers are going.

You consider the DS a failure...

Wtf.

No I seriously have no ability to respond to that without being insult ...


Yeah. You get this from Apple fanboys all the time: "I spent $600 on an iPad (or essentially paying more over two years on monthly payments for an iPhone) and all I get for awesome games are Candy Crush Saga and Angry Birds Star Wars. Why can't I get the good games that are on the DS?"
 
2013-12-14 08:05:34 PM

inglixthemad: simplicimus: It might help if people knew it existed. Just a thought.

Might help if it didn't suck. I can't really see a difference between it and the Wii.

At least the Xbone and Pornstation 4 have substantially upgraded hardware.


Did you somehow miss the big touchscreen controller that is part of the Wii U?
 
2013-12-14 08:10:23 PM

jonny_q: You do realize 3D World and 3D Land are completely different games right? 3D World is the first to be 4 player and has some neat mechanics in it I'm really looking forward to.

I 4-starred 3D Land. Not going to bother getting the top of all the flagpoles. But it's fun!


absolutely

Listen, I'm a Nintendo guy!  Don't get me wrong!  I just don't think either of those games (or Luigi Bros) was worth buying a Wii U over.  That's all.

Hell, I'm one of the few people that liked Luigi's Mansion and was upset the sequel was for the 3DS (don't like handheld games) (not that I would have bought a WiiU for Luigi's Mansion 2)

Just saying nothing has wowed me enough to warrant buying it...yet.
 
2013-12-14 08:20:19 PM

Smackledorfer: lilplatinum: Try releasing a product without stupid gimicky controls.

The controllers are fine. I would even say great. I love the nunchuck. I don't have a wii.

The way games choose to utilize the additional functions is the issue.


Motion controls suck, with the exception of golf and bowling. The Wii U touchscreen is awesome in everything that uses it. Even if it's something simple like having a map constantly available, it's always welcome. Plus, microphone, speakers, and camera built in.
 
2013-12-14 08:31:01 PM

dumbobruni: Nintento's main problem is that its product line is too small.

both Sony and Microsoft have exposure to PCs and mobile devices, which are eating consoles' share of gaming.

in 2008, consoles had 42% share, 37% for PCs and 5% for mobile.

now, PCs are at 51%, consoles are at 30%, and mobile is at 13%.

 http://gearnuke.com/pc-dominates-market-51-console-30-mobile-13-acc ord ing-new-report/


I think it's really the mobile market that's killing Nintendo.  Like a lot of people, we have a Wii, and loved it, but I got my kid a tablet instead of a Wii U.  Ever since she got the tablet, the Wii hardly gets turned on, although the 3DS still gets a lot of play.  The Wii U really ads nothing.  It hasn't had that must have app yet.  It's an underpowered console (so no third party ports of big selling games) and the Nintendo core franchises are really old and tired.
 
2013-12-14 08:33:49 PM
The N64 was the last Nintendo system to have great games and they were arguably technological achievements of the time.

Nintendo fans have wanted a mature Zelda for over a decade.Gamers have also repeatedly stated they'd suck **** for a competently designed and well executed Pokemon Online.

Nintendo would do well to remove the cotton from their ears and listen to the fans that have grown up with the brand and now have all the money to spend. They keep designing games for 12 year olds without acknowledging that even the 12 year olds would rather play something catered to a different age market. (GTA 5 sold a billion dollars with in three days, I wonder why?)

Nintendo is their own problem. They have plenty of valuable IP they're sitting on with no intention to develop competent, challenging, intelligent games with. The cutesy preschool stuff will only get them so far, and will eventually end their business all together.
 
2013-12-14 08:43:39 PM

Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.

You know they made money off the wii right?

Yes, but it was still a mistake. They made money because they kept the BOM low - but they defied the formula that Sony and Microsoft were using to gain market share... sell the system at a loss (at least initially) to provide superior hardware and make up for it with game sales.

The SNES, in its time, was revolutionary. The Nintendo systems that followed, not so much.

Attracting developers with an underpowered systems is difficult, if not impossible, and Nintendo had to carry the system with its own exclusive titles. That isn't the way to gain market share.. all that accomplishes is maintaining your most loyal fans, many of whom are still buying other systems and finding themselves spending more time on those other systems.

The DS is another example of Nintendo missing the boat. Pocket gaming is moving toward smart phones, has been for a long time. Why would people spend another $200 on the latest DS and carry it around (with game cartridges) when they can have everything they need in the phone they already carry around?

How much money could Nintendo be making if they had their DS catalog available iOS or Android markets, where you have billions of customers?

Nintendo is like an incredibly successful horsewhip company in 1915, thinking they will be able to reverse their fortunes with the latest model horsewhip, not understanding where all their customers are going.

You consider the DS a failure...

Wtf.

No I seriously have no ability to respond to that without being insult ...


The DS was quite successful... but those days are behind it.

Let me ask you this: If the DS line is still so successful, why was the launch of the 3DS so lackluster? Even with 3DS game software sales added to DS game sales, there was a drop in sales over 2011. In 2012? There was an 85% drop in combined software sales. This year has been absolutely dismal for the DS/3DS line. Do you see a trend? I do.

I'm not speaking as a fanboy of any specific "gaming" brand. We own the PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, most of the DS generations... before that, the Gamecube, N64, SNES, PSP, PS2, PSX, Xbox, Dreamcast, etc....

What I am saying is that with the advent of better smart phones and tablets, which can serve quite nicely as gaming platforms, the days of the DS line are numbered. My wife's Pink DSi sits on her table, untouched in months as she games on her iPhone. My son rarely cracks his 3DS open... usually playing on his iPhone instead.

Portable gaming is shifting to phones, and the market is huge. If gaming has become compelling on smartphones, why would people want to carry around another portable device that is gaming-specific? I used to see lots of kids playing their DS (or before that, Gameboys), but now? I rarely see it - but I do see plenty absorbed in their phones, feeding dragons or swapping candies around.

So what I see, in my household, is 2 DS systems, 1 3DS, and 2 PSPGos all collecting dust, because it is more convenient just to carry around a phone and play games on that. From what I observe, that seems to be the case in general.
 
2013-12-14 08:50:33 PM

jonny_q: Smackledorfer: lilplatinum: Try releasing a product without stupid gimicky controls.

The controllers are fine. I would even say great. I love the nunchuck. I don't have a wii.

The way games choose to utilize the additional functions is the issue.

Motion controls suck, with the exception of golf and bowling. The Wii U touchscreen is awesome in everything that uses it. Even if it's something simple like having a map constantly available, it's always welcome. Plus, microphone, speakers, and camera built in.


Silent hill, mario galaxy, mario party minigames, paper mario etc. And ymmv but I LIKED the silly dragon warrior game and skyward sword.

Plenty of good applications for motion control. If they had used them for more than jerking off in No More Heroes 2 however, it would have been ruined.

They do NOT need to be crammed into every game out there though.
 
2013-12-14 08:58:13 PM
I thought the Wii was a big turnoff with the crappy graphics.  Wii U didn't sound much better.

Can't they make good games and have a real next gen console?  Personally, I'd prefer if they just made games for sony and MS consoles.
 
2013-12-14 08:59:16 PM
Oddly enough, the PS Vita is working on the whole remote gaming thing that might give it a major boost. If Sony will push more classic titles there as well it can really hold its own. It is a great little system.
 
2013-12-14 09:01:12 PM
I just bought a Wii U and it is awesome.  They finally had enough games worth buying.  3D land is the best mario since galaxy - in fact it is much more fun.  4 player is awesome.  The 2D super mario is quite good, Nintendo land is fun multi-player, and Pikmin 3 has been great so far.

I do worry about the future - I don't see any great games on the horizon other than Nintendo games, but I'm quite happy with the purchase.

/no need for Xbox One or PS4 yet
//Can't see any reason to buy either
 
2013-12-14 09:06:31 PM
People who think "Nintendo is dying" aren't paying attention to how well the 3DS is doing right now.

Currently playing the hell out of Link Between Worlds.
 
2013-12-14 09:14:57 PM

Doc Daneeka: People who think "Nintendo is dying" aren't paying attention to how well the 3DS is doing right now.

Currently playing the hell out of Link Between Worlds.


But I just got assured it was a failure and nobody likes to play the ds when they could be doing a real awesome game like candy crush on their phone. Everybody loves touch controls on something with a screen twice the size of your thumb!
 
2013-12-14 09:49:09 PM
With two "next gen" consoles out, the Steam box on the horizon, and the PC shaping up to reclaim some former glory... I don't think Nintendo's going to have a good year.

You can only win as a bargain basement system when your opponents don't have multiple bargain basement last-gen rigs flooding the market.
 
2013-12-14 09:52:03 PM

Doc Daneeka: People who think "Nintendo is dying" aren't paying attention to how well the 3DS is doing right now.

Currently playing the hell out of Link Between Worlds.


You mean the people who see 3DS sales falling behind last years less-than-stellar sales numbers?

Or the people looking at combined DS/3DS game software sales that continue to collapse?

Like I said, we have these systems. My son has 8 3DS games for his 3DS (far ahead of the 3 3DS games per unit trend), and yet it collect dust. The only time he's likely to dig it out is on very long car trips, and even then, it is used only when his phone dies and he's got no easy way to charge it.
 
2013-12-14 10:04:39 PM

LesserEvil: 3DS sales falling behind last years less-than-stellar sales numbers


Doing a comparison of september between this year and last year:

3ds sales in september of last year were about 22 million and for september of this year are about 34 million.

LesserEvil: 3DS game software sales that continue to collapse?


Nintendo reports that 6.47 million 3DS games have been sold so far in 2013, up nearly 30% from 2012. The following 3DS games have sold at least 250,000 combined copies so far this year:
Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon (863,000)
Animal Crossing: New Leaf (739,000)
New Super Mario Bros. 2 (406,000 in 2013, 1.85 million total)
Fire Emblem Awakening (390,000)
Mario Kart 7 (352,000 in 2013, 2.84 million total)
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity (298,000)
Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D (268,000)
Super Mario 3D Land (265,000 in 2013, 2.86 million total)
LEGO City Undercover: The Chase Begins (264,000)
 
2013-12-14 10:08:10 PM
Nintendo had a huge hit with the Wii.  They found a previously untapped market that loved their product.  Unfortunately, that market isn't one that's going to upgrade their system every 7-8 years.  And when they launched a new console that was widely received as only a marginal upgrade over the existing one while still a generation behind the coming ones, it flopped.

Nintendo isn't dead by any means, but I think this shows that you can only tap the casual market occasionally.  They did it in the 80s with the NES and in the 00s with the Wii.  Their next console might be able to do the same, but I don't know.  I mean, of the top 10 selling games in 2013, only one was even available on the Wii U.  That's a problem.  And I don't think it's a problem that's going away.
 
2013-12-14 10:13:21 PM

Mike_LowELL: Hardware and good games don't drive saves anymore.  Video games are dead.


Uh...hardware IS selling units? The wii U is a grossly underpowered machine with little more than a tablet gimmick.  People aren't particularly interested in the tablet. And the massive sales from the Wii were atypical and any industry analyst worth a shiat could have told you that, and why.

Besides all of that, the Wii U is a gaming ghetto. It will have the same 4-5 proprietary games released for every Nintendo, and they might be good, but they're simply not going to be the games everyone else is playing, and the games everyone wants.  Sure, it'll get 'some version' of most of the ps3 games, maybe even the ps4 games, a few years after they're released on the other consoles.  But let's be really sincere here.

If you buy a Wii, over the course of its life, you can expect to get, what, 20 'great' games? That's a pretty shiatty score compared to the population of the PS4, which is only 100$ more.  Then there's the nostalgia factor, where you can now buy a ton of 8/16/64 bit games through a store that, from reports, kinda mostly works.  But doesn't really compare to the PSN or XBL, in content, robustness, or feature set.

While I enjoy Mario and Zelda and Monster Hunter...that's pretty much all you get on a Wii U. Not a whole lot of developers are going to sink the time and money into making Wii U tablet games which they can't port to the much more successful consoles (due to, you know, the tablet) or the PC, and the Wii U hardware is so bad you can't easily port stuff TO it.
 
2013-12-14 10:14:19 PM
Meh. I have an old wii that I never play anymore but I also have a 3 year old who is  going abuse the shiat out of that thing as soon as I teach her how. I got my money's worth out of it, and will continue to, that's for sure. I can see it being a party favor in five years. I'll just have to blow on the CD a little before putting it in.
 
2013-12-14 10:20:08 PM
Haven't been a Nintendo guy since the SNES, but I just got a 3ds and absolutely love it. Fire Emblem is simply amazing, can't wait for Bravely Default.
 
2013-12-14 10:21:04 PM

DBrandisNC: This is what happens when you don't put out a new Mario Kart in over 5 years.


I sooooo wanted Mario Kart 7 to come out for console, but all they seem to care about is marketing for that damn 3DS
 
2013-12-14 10:21:13 PM

H31N0US: Meh. I have an old wii that I never play anymore but I also have a 3 year old who is  going abuse the shiat out of that thing as soon as I teach her how. I got my money's worth out of it, and will continue to, that's for sure. I can see it being a party favor in five years. I'll just have to blow on the CD a little before putting it in.


I'm the same way, though I may be weird because I'm actually looking to replace my PS3 before upgrading to a PS4 or XBOX One.
 
2013-12-14 10:25:22 PM

Gergesa: LesserEvil: 3DS sales falling behind last years less-than-stellar sales numbers

Doing a comparison of september between this year and last year:

3ds sales in september of last year were about 22 million and for september of this year are about 34 million.

LesserEvil: 3DS game software sales that continue to collapse?

Nintendo reports that 6.47 million 3DS games have been sold so far in 2013, up nearly 30% from 2012. The following 3DS games have sold at least 250,000 combined copies so far this year:
Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon (863,000)
Animal Crossing: New Leaf (739,000)
New Super Mario Bros. 2 (406,000 in 2013, 1.85 million total)
Fire Emblem Awakening (390,000)
Mario Kart 7 (352,000 in 2013, 2.84 million total)
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity (298,000)
Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D (268,000)
Super Mario 3D Land (265,000 in 2013, 2.86 million total)
LEGO City Undercover: The Chase Begins (264,000)


??

VGhartz shows TOTAL 3DS units at 38 million. TOTAL. That's not a monthly sales number you are looking at. If they sold 34 million 3DS units in September, it would be simply amazing, but that isn't the case. They sold 770,000 3DS units in October.

Showing a bunch of individual titles also doesn't mean much. I'm looking at total sales, on a yearly basis. It is trending down, and will continue to do so. They may not be "dead" but it isn't really healthy. At this stage, it's that troubling lump on the side of your head and the occasional seizure; do nothing to get it looked at, and it might just become a bigger problem.
 
2013-12-14 10:27:14 PM
I plan on selling 100,000 tons of my feces, urine and dead skin this month, along with 90,000,000 stacks of cobblestone and dirt. I also plan on sleeping with every Playboy and Victoria's Secret model of the past 5 years.
 
2013-12-14 10:31:31 PM

lordargent: Who knew that the epic sega vs nintendo battle would end with both of them languishing (and maybe both dying).

What I want out of Nintendo is their games, the hardware, not so much.

// haven't owned a piece of Nintendo hardware since the SNES and that makes me sad.


Nintendo is more profitable than both Sony and Microsoft's game divisions.
 
2013-12-14 10:41:58 PM

LesserEvil: Doc Daneeka: People who think "Nintendo is dying" aren't paying attention to how well the 3DS is doing right now.

Currently playing the hell out of Link Between Worlds.

You mean the people who see 3DS sales falling behind last years less-than-stellar sales numbers?

Or the people looking at combined DS/3DS game software sales that continue to collapse?

Like I said, we have these systems. My son has 8 3DS games for his 3DS (far ahead of the 3 3DS games per unit trend), and yet it collect dust. The only time he's likely to dig it out is on very long car trips, and even then, it is used only when his phone dies and he's got no easy way to charge it.


Well, I suppose your anecdote and my anecdote cancel out. I use my 3DS all the time. Superb library.


I have an iPhone 4S too, and an iPad. They both are great for some things, but they both suck for gaming. Touchscreens suck for gaming. Plus the quality of games generally isn't nearly up to the standards of Nintendo first-party offerings.

 
2013-12-14 10:42:18 PM

Gergesa: buntz: The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.

Currently they have more available than 1 or 4.

buntz: What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?

I never liked the term "must have games."  There are no such things as must have games.  Games are a luxury not a necessity.  No systems have ever had a "must have game."

buntz: The Mario games are even re-hashes.

In the same sense the all castlevania games since the first are re-hashes.

buntz: There hasn't been a great Mario game since Galaxy.

Lost credibility here.

For Nintendo doom prophets, I suppose someone should point out that Microsoft has never made money off the Xbox and Sony's level of profitability is also not exactly spectacular either.  Of the three companies, Nintendo has the best solvency so it is not like they are on the verge of collapse.


The 'successful' Playstation 3 lost so much money, that it completely ate up all profits the PS1 and 2 had ever made.  And some try to claim Sony won last gen.
 
2013-12-14 10:47:52 PM

Nemo's Brother: Gergesa: buntz: The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.

Currently they have more available than 1 or 4.

buntz: What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?

I never liked the term "must have games."  There are no such things as must have games.  Games are a luxury not a necessity.  No systems have ever had a "must have game."

buntz: The Mario games are even re-hashes.

In the same sense the all castlevania games since the first are re-hashes.

buntz: There hasn't been a great Mario game since Galaxy.

Lost credibility here.

For Nintendo doom prophets, I suppose someone should point out that Microsoft has never made money off the Xbox and Sony's level of profitability is also not exactly spectacular either.  Of the three companies, Nintendo has the best solvency so it is not like they are on the verge of collapse.

The 'successful' Playstation 3 lost so much money, that it completely ate up all profits the PS1 and 2 had ever made.  And some try to claim Sony won last gen.


The PS3 has a great library of games so it's a win for us gamers, but financially it wasn't so hot for Sony. The Wii had a lot of shovelware true, but it also has quite a few good games AND Nintendo made a lot of profit on it, so it was win/win for gamers and Nintendo alike. Personally I think the Wii U is just off to a slow start, I don't think anyone honestly expected it to sell like crazy the way that the Wii did. Time will tell for sure of course, but the 3DS went through the same thing and now hit it's stride.
 
2013-12-14 10:55:50 PM

LesserEvil: VGhartz shows TOTAL 3DS units at 38 million.


1st, I should point out VGchartz has questionable methodology and it is not the best source.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18919

2nd, if you do wish to use VG chartz, according to their comparison 3ds has experienced a 10.8% growth from 2012 to 2013

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251432/2013-year-on-year-sales-and-m ar ket-share-update-to-november-30th/


I know it is rather early but I am sleepy so I must bow out.  I wish you a good night though.
 
2013-12-14 11:01:22 PM

Doc Daneeka: LesserEvil: Doc Daneeka: People who think "Nintendo is dying" aren't paying attention to how well the 3DS is doing right now.

Currently playing the hell out of Link Between Worlds.

You mean the people who see 3DS sales falling behind last years less-than-stellar sales numbers?

Or the people looking at combined DS/3DS game software sales that continue to collapse?

Like I said, we have these systems. My son has 8 3DS games for his 3DS (far ahead of the 3 3DS games per unit trend), and yet it collect dust. The only time he's likely to dig it out is on very long car trips, and even then, it is used only when his phone dies and he's got no easy way to charge it.

Well, I suppose your anecdote and my anecdote cancel out. I use my 3DS all the time. Superb library.
I have an iPhone 4S too, and an iPad. They both are great for some things, but they both suck for gaming. Touchscreens suck for gaming. Plus the quality of games generally isn't nearly up to the standards of Nintendo first-party offerings.


There are plenty of game controllers for iPhones, Android phones, iPads...

I have one of these for retro gaming on the iPad or an Android tablet:
img2u.info
It's pretty slick...

People seem to really love this:
img2u.info
...even though they are pricey, but hipsters who wait in line to get the latest iPhone for $$$ probably don't mind spending the money.

There are cheaper options, as well.

As I said, I'm not saying Nintendo is "Dead" or that the DS/3DS is dead, just that it is and will continue trending down. I give it another 18 months before the trend takes a much sharper fall. If Nintendo doesn't have anything up their sleeve to take advantage of the mobile market, they might just end up like SEGA, too far extended in a market they cannot dominate in.

Keep in mind there are STILL 150+ million "plain" DS consoles out there, yet software sales fell over 50% this year, and 50% the year before. 3DS software sales might be climbing (11% this year, 46% last year, which is less of a climb), but not at a pace that makes up for lost DS sales, and nobody can use 3DS games in their older DS consoles.
 
2013-12-14 11:10:00 PM

LesserEvil: Doc Daneeka: LesserEvil: Doc Daneeka: People who think "Nintendo is dying" aren't paying attention to how well the 3DS is doing right now.

Currently playing the hell out of Link Between Worlds.

You mean the people who see 3DS sales falling behind last years less-than-stellar sales numbers?

Or the people looking at combined DS/3DS game software sales that continue to collapse?

Like I said, we have these systems. My son has 8 3DS games for his 3DS (far ahead of the 3 3DS games per unit trend), and yet it collect dust. The only time he's likely to dig it out is on very long car trips, and even then, it is used only when his phone dies and he's got no easy way to charge it.

Well, I suppose your anecdote and my anecdote cancel out. I use my 3DS all the time. Superb library.
I have an iPhone 4S too, and an iPad. They both are great for some things, but they both suck for gaming. Touchscreens suck for gaming. Plus the quality of games generally isn't nearly up to the standards of Nintendo first-party offerings.

There are plenty of game controllers for iPhones, Android phones, iPads...

I have one of these for retro gaming on the iPad or an Android tablet:

It's pretty slick...

People seem to really love this:

...even though they are pricey, but hipsters who wait in line to get the latest iPhone for $$$ probably don't mind spending the money.

There are cheaper options, as well.

As I said, I'm not saying Nintendo is "Dead" or that the DS/3DS is dead, just that it is and will continue trending down. I give it another 18 months before the trend takes a much sharper fall. If Nintendo doesn't have anything up their sleeve to take advantage of the mobile market, they might just end up like SEGA, too far extended in a market they cannot dominate in.

Keep in mind there are STILL 150+ million "plain" DS consoles out there, yet software sales fell over 50% this year, and 50% the year before. 3DS software sales might be climbing (11% this year, 46% last year, which is less of a climb), but not at a pace that makes up for lost DS sales, and nobody can use 3DS games in their older DS consoles.


I'm interested in the sales numbers for those.
 
2013-12-14 11:11:53 PM

Gergesa: LesserEvil: VGhartz shows TOTAL 3DS units at 38 million.

1st, I should point out VGchartz has questionable methodology and it is not the best source.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18919

2nd, if you do wish to use VG chartz, according to their comparison 3ds has experienced a 10.8% growth from 2012 to 2013

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251432/2013-year-on-year-sales-and-m ar ket-share-update-to-november-30th/


I know it is rather early but I am sleepy so I must bow out.  I wish you a good night though.


I mentioned that above... but 11% increase after a 46% increase last year is kind of disappointing, and combined with DS game sales, it's going in the other direction, as their sales have plummeted 50% this year and last (and 33% in 2011). 3DS sales are barely 50% this year of the DS' 2011 sales levels.

So what does it all mean? It means the 3DS has an uphill battle to move software int he same numbers as the DS, and the growth in 3DS seems to be peaking before it comes close.

Nintendo has been making a few million more than the other guys, but those margins are not great, in any event. There are only so many cost-cutting measures that can be done, too. even making a profit on each sale of the WiiU doesn't make up for all the WiiU units sitting on the store shelves collecting dust. At some point, that will start cutting through the entire company's bottom line. It's a brutal cycle, and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo doesn't have huge reserves of operating capital to support them through the rough times that are coming.
 
2013-12-14 11:16:36 PM

LesserEvil: Nintendo has been making a few million more than the other guys, but those margins are not great, in any event. There are only so many cost-cutting measures that can be done, too. even making a profit on each sale of the WiiU doesn't make up for all the WiiU units sitting on the store shelves collecting dust. At some point, that will start cutting through the entire company's bottom line. It's a brutal cycle, and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo doesn't have huge reserves of operating capital to support them through the rough times that are coming.


Yeah they do, they're nowhere close to running out of money.

http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look- ho w-much-money-its-got-bank/
 
2013-12-14 11:16:50 PM
I would absolutely get a Nintendo console if I could get Nintendo games + Rockstar, Bethesda, and Volition games. Nintendo needs to make good with third party developers.

/Also, enough Mario and Zelda for awhile. I haven't enjoyed a Mario game since SM64. How about a true sequel to StarFox 64? Please. I beg of you.
 
2013-12-14 11:18:15 PM
I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.
 
2013-12-14 11:21:09 PM

globalwarmingpraiser: Oddly enough, the PS Vita is working on the whole remote gaming thing that might give it a major boost. If Sony will push more classic titles there as well it can really hold its own. It is a great little system.


Sony needs to do something drastic with the Vita and soon. It sold an abysmal 70-75k units last month. Even the original Wii managed to outsell it (83k).

/Vita TV was a huge flop in Japan also
//Can't imagine it will fair much better here
 
2013-12-14 11:32:39 PM

pyrotek85: LesserEvil: Nintendo has been making a few million more than the other guys, but those margins are not great, in any event. There are only so many cost-cutting measures that can be done, too. even making a profit on each sale of the WiiU doesn't make up for all the WiiU units sitting on the store shelves collecting dust. At some point, that will start cutting through the entire company's bottom line. It's a brutal cycle, and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo doesn't have huge reserves of operating capital to support them through the rough times that are coming.

Yeah they do, they're nowhere close to running out of money.

http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look- ho w-much-money-its-got-bank/


OK, point taken... it's a big reserve. I don't know that it would last them 40 years. Sony and Microsoft have bigger reserves, though. I guess if they want to sit around and do nothing but pay workers, but they are going to end up spending a pile of that to stay in the game, at some point.. buying another company (probably a mobile computing company - tablets or phones) to become relevant again when 3DS drops off the radar and the WiiU is unsustainable in the market. Palm is probably available for a song... but Nintendo isn't known for acquisitions.
 
2013-12-14 11:49:10 PM

LesserEvil: pyrotek85: LesserEvil: Nintendo has been making a few million more than the other guys, but those margins are not great, in any event. There are only so many cost-cutting measures that can be done, too. even making a profit on each sale of the WiiU doesn't make up for all the WiiU units sitting on the store shelves collecting dust. At some point, that will start cutting through the entire company's bottom line. It's a brutal cycle, and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo doesn't have huge reserves of operating capital to support them through the rough times that are coming.

Yeah they do, they're nowhere close to running out of money.

http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look- ho w-much-money-its-got-bank/

OK, point taken... it's a big reserve. I don't know that it would last them 40 years. Sony and Microsoft have bigger reserves, though. I guess if they want to sit around and do nothing but pay workers, but they are going to end up spending a pile of that to stay in the game, at some point.. buying another company (probably a mobile computing company - tablets or phones) to become relevant again when 3DS drops off the radar and the WiiU is unsustainable in the market. Palm is probably available for a song... but Nintendo isn't known for acquisitions.


We'll have to disagree then, I don't think smartphones and tablets are competing for exactly the same consumer that portable consoles are, so there is room for both in my opinion. As for the Wii U, it'll survive one way or another, even the Gamecube was profitable for Nintendo. My hunch is that adoption is just slow because they released it too early. They didn't have some of their major franchises ready yet, but again we'll know for sure in the coming year. Bottom line is that Nintendo is fine with doing things it's own way, and it's worked for them for quite a long time. I'm assuming they know their business better than you or I do.
 
2013-12-14 11:49:55 PM

LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.


i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me
 
2013-12-15 12:01:00 AM

AdamK: LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.

i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me


I'm not that fond of them either, but I can't deny that that's where the money is and that it targets a much larger segment than the traditional gamer. But this is why I don't quite see Nintendo as a direct competitor to Microsoft and Sony either. They're not aiming for exactly the same thing, and that's why Nintendo can go about it's own business and do things their own way and still be successful.
 
2013-12-15 12:14:49 AM

buntz: AdamK: as for wind waker hd and ocarina of time 3ds, how were those slaps in the face? both were great ports, superior even to their originals

Maybe slap in the face isn't the right expression here.

Good ports, yes.  But not 'launch" titles.  Just ports.

And maybe "must have" games isn't right either.  Just simply not "event" games.

I would think if I was going to launch a new system, I would have a game created, a NEW game, that I really want to play.  Releasing a new Mario or Zelda title with the Wii U that I couldn't play in some way on another system is what I mean.
So Wind Waker, though looking great, is still the same game.

Releasing a game like Zombie U certainly wasn't an event or must have!


man asking for an "event" type launch game is asking for a lot, since Mario 64 we've had 10 console launches... of those 10 console launches and the countless forgettable games we've received, only 2 were "event" type games - one intentional (Halo) and one pure luck (wii sports)

the general strategy this gen from all 3 consoles has been to have one easy-to-pick-up safe sequel (killzone, forza 5, mario u) and one "showcase" game (knack, dead rising 3, zombiu)... i dunno, i think mario u + zombiu is still a pretty good launch lineup compared to the others' new games

you're right in that the wii u needs other "event" type games, and it got that in mario 3d world - but nothing happened in terms of sales which to me says "it doesn't matter what you release, sales aren't going to reach their potential"... i guess you write fan fiction and think nintendo should've released all of the wii u's lifetime hit games in one december, but that's not how these things work, hence why i think the games aren't a problem but rather the market position demanding that the price be cut to be more than $100 cheaper than a ps4 because people aren't seeing the value regardless of what's on shelves
 
2013-12-15 12:44:37 AM
The biggest problem they have is Mario (and their other old IPs). Sure it is a moneymaker BUT it stifles any impression of them as anything but a fetish toy maker for existing nintendo fans. And that market isnt going to get bigger at all. I have no doubt the games are good but the world doesnt want another farkign mario/zelda game it really doesnt.

They need need need strong new IPs and to give an impression of producing hardware people desire. The Wii was a complete one-off, and they clearly know that.. but they arent doing anything interesting to those who have no interest in their old IPs as far as I can see. Among a strong modern lineup those old games would pick up new fans, but when they are the only visible attraction people aint buying.
 
2013-12-15 01:14:59 AM

Korzine: globalwarmingpraiser: Oddly enough, the PS Vita is working on the whole remote gaming thing that might give it a major boost. If Sony will push more classic titles there as well it can really hold its own. It is a great little system.

Sony needs to do something drastic with the Vita and soon. It sold an abysmal 70-75k units last month. Even the original Wii managed to outsell it (83k).

/Vita TV was a huge flop in Japan also
//Can't imagine it will fair much better here



Drastic such as making it compatible with their newest console to have deeper remote play functionality.  Maybe it's me but it really seems like Nintendo and Sony have the opposite problem.

Sony has nothing on the Vita/PSP outside of a handful of games.  PS1/2/3 all get a wide selection of exclusive games from the entire spectrum but their handheld gets jack.

On the other hand look what Nintendo puts out for the 3DS  Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon, a unique (kinda) Zelda, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, tons of RPG's.  It really seems like a brain drain to some extent.  Any decent idea gets thrown on the 3DS, which seems like it would be an easy idea to port some of the stuff especially with the game pad.
 
2013-12-15 01:16:00 AM
If anything really gets tough for Nintendo, they just break the glass and release a Pokemon MMO.  Then they all retire.
 
2013-12-15 01:20:48 AM

mxwjs: If anything really gets tough for Nintendo, they just break the glass and release a Pokemon MMO.  Then they all retire.


img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-12-15 01:34:18 AM
Release X, then I will buy a Wii-U.

That is all.
 
2013-12-15 01:50:45 AM

LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.

You know they made money off the wii right?

Yes, but it was still a mistake. They made money because they kept the BOM low - but they defied the formula that Sony and Microsoft were using to gain market share... sell the system at a loss (at least initially) to provide superior hardware and make up for it with game sales.

The SNES, in its time, was revolutionary. The Nintendo systems that followed, not so much.

Attracting developers with an underpowered systems is difficult, if not impossible, and Nintendo had to carry the system with its own exclusive titles. That isn't the way to gain market share.. all that accomplishes is maintaining your most loyal fans, many of whom are still buying other systems and finding themselves spending more time on those other systems.

The DS is another example of Nintendo missing the boat. Pocket gaming is moving toward smart phones, has been for a long time. Why would people spend another $200 on the latest DS and carry it around (with game cartridges) when they can have everything they need in the phone they already carry around?

How much money could Nintendo be making if they had their DS catalog available iOS or Android markets, where you have billions of customers?

Nintendo is like an incredibly successful horsewhip company in 1915, thinking they will be able to reverse their fortunes with the latest model horsewhip, not understanding where all their customers are going.

You consider the DS a failure...

Wtf.

No I seriously have no ability to respond to that witho ...


Because the 3ds was too expensive and didn't have any good games.
 
2013-12-15 01:59:31 AM

gaspode: The biggest problem they have is Mario (and their other old IPs). Sure it is a moneymaker BUT it stifles any impression of them as anything but a fetish toy maker for existing nintendo fans. And that market isnt going to get bigger at all. I have no doubt the games are good but the world doesnt want another farkign mario/zelda game it really doesnt.

They need need need strong new IPs and to give an impression of producing hardware people desire. The Wii was a complete one-off, and they clearly know that.. but they arent doing anything interesting to those who have no interest in their old IPs as far as I can see. Among a strong modern lineup those old games would pick up new fans, but when they are the only visible attraction people aint buying.


Yes, having the most iconic IPs in the history of the medium has really been a burden. They need "Righteous Slaughter - Sh*t Stick 3000" kind of IPs.
 
2013-12-15 02:06:15 AM

AdamK: LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.

i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me


PS+ is actually an awesome deal because for $50 a year you get a shiatload of free games for the PS3. If you don't have time to keep up with the latest and greatest like me, it is a nice inexpensive way to enjoy some older titles. In the last year I've seen games like Borderlands 2, Uncharted 3, Deus Ex:HR, XCOM, Saints Row III, Sleeping Dogs, Shadow of the Colossus, and Ico all offered for free with subscription, so I've gotten my money's worth out of the service.
 
2013-12-15 02:54:55 AM

Mad_Radhu: AdamK: LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.

i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me

PS+ is actually an awesome deal because for $50 a year you get a shiatload of free games for the PS3. If you don't have time to keep up with the latest and greatest like me, it is a nice inexpensive way to enjoy some older titles. In the last year I've seen games like Borderlands 2, Uncharted 3, Deus Ex:HR, XCOM, Saints Row III, Sleeping Dogs, Shadow of the Colossus, and Ico all offered for free with subscription, so I've gotten my money's worth out of the service.


2 months ago I was very "You'll never get me on PS+" but after I got my vita I threw down the 20 bucks for 3 months just to give it a go - I'm in total agreeance that it's a great thing and will probably get the 12 month subscription in the new year.

It's kinda genius when you think about it:

- Get a yearly subscription out of people, the same that XBL is charging
- Provide a heap of games that are about 6months old and older, that have all long-passed their maximised revenue earning windows on store shelves; thus most people have disregarded them but all of a sudden they're catching up on stuff they didn't do the first time (ie. the mind tricked into thinking it's free makes it more enticing)
- End up with subscribers logging in at least once a month to see what new games are up; maybe get some DLC sales while you're at it.
- When your market is playing your machine, they're not playing the competitor's one.

(Once I got a new router and my PS3 finally could get onto the internet, it became a real good deal).
 
2013-12-15 03:47:35 AM

gaspode: The biggest problem they have is Mario (and their other old IPs). Sure it is a moneymaker BUT it stifles any impression of them as anything but a fetish toy maker for existing nintendo fans. And that market isnt going to get bigger at all. I have no doubt the games are good but the world doesnt want another farkign mario/zelda game it really doesnt.

They need need need strong new IPs and to give an impression of producing hardware people desire. The Wii was a complete one-off, and they clearly know that.. but they arent doing anything interesting to those who have no interest in their old IPs as far as I can see. Among a strong modern lineup those old games would pick up new fans, but when they are the only visible attraction people aint buying.


Sooo much THIS!

Yes they aren't going away but they've stagnated. You can either buy Nintendo hardware for the handful of Nintendo IP games every year complete with nothing else OR you can buy either competing system and also get the entire rest of the gaming industry.

Nintendo ghettoized themselves by turning their back on third party developers. Current gen Mario games aren't likely to be dramatically better than last gen and that's all they're going to have. the next revolutionary gaming franchise will be on ps4 and Xbox.
 
2013-12-15 04:46:27 AM

HockeyGod98: gaspode: The biggest problem they have is Mario (and their other old IPs). Sure it is a moneymaker BUT it stifles any impression of them as anything but a fetish toy maker for existing nintendo fans. And that market isnt going to get bigger at all. I have no doubt the games are good but the world doesnt want another farkign mario/zelda game it really doesnt.

They need need need strong new IPs and to give an impression of producing hardware people desire. The Wii was a complete one-off, and they clearly know that.. but they arent doing anything interesting to those who have no interest in their old IPs as far as I can see. Among a strong modern lineup those old games would pick up new fans, but when they are the only visible attraction people aint buying.

Yes, having the most iconic IPs in the history of the medium has really been a burden. They need "Righteous Slaughter - Sh*t Stick 3000" kind of IPs.


It is a blessing AND a curse. That was the point.

They need new and exciting IP. Every company needs this ever few years. There is nothing new or exciting about another Mario game, unless you already care.
 
2013-12-15 06:04:53 AM

LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Smackledorfer: LesserEvil: Nintendo doubled down on the mistake of the Wii when they came out with the Wii U.

Scratch that... they Quadrupled down.

They missed the boat when they bet against optical drives to expand or at least follow up the SNES - they opened the door to Sony to enter the market and began their descent. Only momentum and some sustained market share with the Gameboy/DS handhelds has kept them in the game this long.

You know they made money off the wii right?

Yes, but it was still a mistake. They made money because they kept the BOM low - but they defied the formula that Sony and Microsoft were using to gain market share... sell the system at a loss (at least initially) to provide superior hardware and make up for it with game sales.

The SNES, in its time, was revolutionary. The Nintendo systems that followed, not so much.

Attracting developers with an underpowered systems is difficult, if not impossible, and Nintendo had to carry the system with its own exclusive titles. That isn't the way to gain market share.. all that accomplishes is maintaining your most loyal fans, many of whom are still buying other systems and finding themselves spending more time on those other systems.

The DS is another example of Nintendo missing the boat. Pocket gaming is moving toward smart phones, has been for a long time. Why would people spend another $200 on the latest DS and carry it around (with game cartridges) when they can have everything they need in the phone they already carry around?

How much money could Nintendo be making if they had their DS catalog available iOS or Android markets, where you have billions of customers?

Nintendo is like an incredibly successful horsewhip company in 1915, thinking they will be able to reverse their fortunes with the latest model horsewhip, not understanding where all their customers are going.

You consider the DS a failure...

Wtf.

No I seriously have no ability to respond to that without being insult ...

The DS was quite successful... but those days are behind it.

Let me ask you this: If the DS line is still so successful, why was the launch of the 3DS so lackluster? Even with 3DS game software sales added to DS game sales, there was a drop in sales over 2011. In 2012? There was an 85% drop in combined software sales. This year has been absolutely dismal for the DS/3DS line. Do you see a trend? I do.

I'm not speaking as a fanboy of any specific "gaming" brand. We own the PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, most of the DS generations... before that, the Gamecube, N64, SNES, PSP, PS2, PSX, Xbox, Dreamcast, etc....

What I am saying is that with the advent of better smart phones and tablets, which can serve quite nicely as gaming platforms, the days of the DS line are numbered. My wife's Pink DSi sits on her table, untouched in months as she games on her iPhone. My son rarely cracks his 3DS open... usually playing on his iPhone instead.

Portable gaming is shifting to phones, and the market is huge. If gaming has become compelling on smartphones, why would people want to carry around another portable device that is gaming-specific? I used to see lots of kids playing their DS (or before that, Gameboys), but now? I rarely see it - but I do see plenty absorbed in their phones, feeding dragons or swapping candies around.

So what I see, in my household, is 2 DS systems, 1 3DS, and 2 PSPGos all collecting dust, because it is more convenient just to carry around a phone and play games on that. From what I observe, that seems to be the case in general.


Oh, please. Who could play a video game on a farking phone, and actually take it seriously?
 
2013-12-15 06:23:11 AM

I have no plans on getting a PS 4 or Xbox One in the next year but there is a very high probability I'll get a Wii U in couple months when DK is released. It was my most played Wii game and barring horrible reviews, I'll get it.

The 3DS was a launch failure but once they dropped the price and games finally started appearing, it's nothing but a huge success now. The Wii U could repeat this except...

The Wii U has bigger problems since 3rd party devs have all but abandoned ship (positive note: It helps clear out the shovelware that watered the Wii name down). Nintendo has great 1st party titles coming in the next 6 months and it will continue to keep having up and down sales months to match these releases. I don't expect it to do much but keep things afloat this cycle but that doesn't mean there aren't going to be some fun games on it.

 
2013-12-15 09:00:27 AM

Mad_Radhu: AdamK: LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.

i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me

PS+ is actually an awesome deal because for $50 a year you get a shiatload of free games for the PS3. If you don't have time to keep up with the latest and greatest like me, it is a nice inexpensive way to enjoy some older titles. In the last year I've seen games like Borderlands 2, Uncharted 3, Deus Ex:HR, XCOM, Saints Row III, Sleeping Dogs, Shadow of the Colossus, and Ico all offered for free with subscription, so I've gotten my money's worth out of the service.


yeah... see for me i already bought all of those titles for way less than $50 total on steam, i was never at the mercy of a service - i simply waited and picked what i wanted to play

more importantly, i don't like subscriptions in my entertainment - i put up with it for access to internet and stuff like netflix, but that's about as far as i'm willing to go

access to games i can already access? nope
 
2013-12-15 09:05:43 AM
broadsword:

2 months ago I was very "You'll never get me on PS+" but after I got my vita I threw down the 20 bucks for 3 months just to give it a go - I'm in total agreeance that it's a great thing and will probably get the 12 month subscription in the new year.

It's kinda genius when you think about it:

- Get a yearly subscription out of people, the same that XBL is charging
- Provide a heap of games that are about 6months old and older, that have all long-passed their maximised revenue earning windows on store shelves; thus most people have disregarded them but all of a sudden they're catching up on stuff they didn't do the first time (ie. the mind tricked into thinking it's free makes it more enticing)
- End up with subscribers logging in at least once a month to see what new games are up; maybe get some DLC sales while you're at it.
- When your market is playing your machine, they're not playing the competitor's one.

(Once I got a new router and my PS3 finally could get onto the internet, it became a real good deal).


i'm still pissed they put online games behind a paywall, one of the main selling points of the ps3 was always "play a ton of online games or maybe just once in a while? doesn't matter - it's free"... now every online interaction basically comes with a price tag, same reason i ditched XBLG - i don't care if the product is superior - if there's a free alternative i don't want it
 
2013-12-15 09:20:02 AM

AdamK: you're right in that the wii u needs other "event" type games, and it got that in mario 3d world - but nothing happened in terms of sales which to me says "it doesn't matter what you release, sales aren't going to reach their potential"... i guess you write fan fiction and think nintendo should've released all of the wii u's lifetime hit games in one december, but that's not how these things work, hence why i think the games aren't a problem but rather the market position demanding that the price be cut to be more than $100 cheaper than a ps4 because people aren't seeing the value regardless of what's on shelves


Ad hominems aside, you're right that I do expect at least one 'hit' game with a new console.  Not all, but 3D World was just a port.  Batman was old.  Zombie U was a showcase but from what I've read, not a great one.
There just hasn't been any games that people are wowed about.

And you're right, because of this, the price needs to be cut.  What was it originally $350? I can't remember the initial price but it was pretty high for a port and bland 'showcase' game.

I have no doubt eventually I'll get one (unless they decide people just don't like it enough and come out with Nintendo 8 a year from now) but not at $250 (or $200).

I almost picked up a 4GB XBox for $99 a couple weeks ago because we have so many unopened 360 games I'd rather have one on 2 TVS than buy a new XBox One that won't play 360 games!
 
2013-12-15 09:52:42 AM

buntz: AdamK: you're right in that the wii u needs other "event" type games, and it got that in mario 3d world - but nothing happened in terms of sales which to me says "it doesn't matter what you release, sales aren't going to reach their potential"... i guess you write fan fiction and think nintendo should've released all of the wii u's lifetime hit games in one december, but that's not how these things work, hence why i think the games aren't a problem but rather the market position demanding that the price be cut to be more than $100 cheaper than a ps4 because people aren't seeing the value regardless of what's on shelves

Ad hominems aside, you're right that I do expect at least one 'hit' game with a new console.  Not all, but 3D World was just a port.  Batman was old.  Zombie U was a showcase but from what I've read, not a great one.
There just hasn't been any games that people are wowed about.

And you're right, because of this, the price needs to be cut.  What was it originally $350? I can't remember the initial price but it was pretty high for a port and bland 'showcase' game.

I have no doubt eventually I'll get one (unless they decide people just don't like it enough and come out with Nintendo 8 a year from now) but not at $250 (or $200).

I almost picked up a 4GB XBox for $99 a couple weeks ago because we have so many unopened 360 games I'd rather have one on 2 TVS than buy a new XBox One that won't play 360 games!


SMB3DL is not a port.  And it is easily the best Mario game I've played in a while.  The graphics are actually quite stunning in person.  The Wii U was only $300 - and that is with a game.
 
2013-12-15 09:55:47 AM
I'll buy a WiiU at $149 for nostalgia purposes and the few Nintendo exclusives. Everything else a PC and PS4 do better so even at $300 it asking too much.
 
2013-12-15 09:58:11 AM

AdamK: i hate services,


The internet must be a really annoying place for you right now since just about all useful content is going towards services as more people are blocking ads.
 
2013-12-15 10:04:34 AM

Cytokine Storm: Release X, then I will buy a Wii-U.

That is all.


That can't be a Nintendo game, I didn't see Mario or Zelda anywhere.
 
2013-12-15 10:06:06 AM

way south: With two "next gen" consoles out, the Steam box on the horizon


Yeah, people are going to be lining up for a box that can play less than 10% of the games released for it.
 
2013-12-15 10:37:26 AM
I love Pikmin, so will eventually get a WiiU because of that, but right now there is nothing on it to justify the outlay of of $. I'm not a big gamer anyway. When I game it's probably gonna be Civilization or Sims on PC (Or, right now the Black Isle/Bioware D&D collection. Planescape: Torment FTW)
 
2013-12-15 10:57:38 AM

Dragonflew: way south: With two "next gen" consoles out, the Steam box on the horizon

Yeah, people are going to be lining up for a box that can play less than 10% of the games released for it.


As far as I can tell there will be different kinds of Steam boxes. Though they are beginning to develop for Linux more, for now it looks like those units will mostly be used for streaming from a more powerful gaming rig to another room, like a living room with a large screen TV. Honestly I'm not sure how big of a hit they'll be, but I see what they're trying to do.
 
2013-12-15 11:22:43 AM
The Wii U is a great system, as long as it isn't your primary console. You need your Xbox/Playstation/PC for all of the top of the line gaming experiences, but you can't beat the Wii U as a family and couch co-op with friends system. And you get the added bonus of having the Wii U around once the HD Zelda and Metroid come out, which are really the only two single player experiences that Nintendo has to rival the best games on other consoles.
 
2013-12-15 11:34:20 AM

Passive Aggressive Larry: You need your Xbox/Playstation/PC for all of the top of the line gaming experiences


Hardcore gamer has arrived.
 
2013-12-15 12:38:53 PM

AdamK: Mad_Radhu: AdamK: LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.

i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me

PS+ is actually an awesome deal because for $50 a year you get a shiatload of free games for the PS3. If you don't have time to keep up with the latest and greatest like me, it is a nice inexpensive way to enjoy some older titles. In the last year I've seen games like Borderlands 2, Uncharted 3, Deus Ex:HR, XCOM, Saints Row III, Sleeping Dogs, Shadow of the Colossus, and Ico all offered for free with subscription, so I've gotten my money's worth out of the service.

yeah... see for me i already bought all of those titles for way less than $50 total on steam, i was never at the mercy of a service - i simply waited and picked what i wanted to play

more importantly, i don't like subscriptions in my entertainment - i put up with it for access to internet and stuff like netflix, but that's about as far as i'm willing to go

access to games i can already access? nope


A PSN card is 50$ for 12 months. That's less than 5$ a month. It's hardly the onerous burden you make it out to be.

And the free games aren't a competitor to new releases; you might as well say 'I bought those games new on the ps3, what good does this do me?!'
 
2013-12-15 12:54:33 PM

kukukupo: buntz: AdamK: you're right in that the wii u needs other "event" type games, and it got that in mario 3d world - but nothing happened in terms of sales which to me says "it doesn't matter what you release, sales aren't going to reach their potential"... i guess you write fan fiction and think nintendo should've released all of the wii u's lifetime hit games in one december, but that's not how these things work, hence why i think the games aren't a problem but rather the market position demanding that the price be cut to be more than $100 cheaper than a ps4 because people aren't seeing the value regardless of what's on shelves

Ad hominems aside, you're right that I do expect at least one 'hit' game with a new console.  Not all, but 3D World was just a port.  Batman was old.  Zombie U was a showcase but from what I've read, not a great one.
There just hasn't been any games that people are wowed about.

And you're right, because of this, the price needs to be cut.  What was it originally $350? I can't remember the initial price but it was pretty high for a port and bland 'showcase' game.

I have no doubt eventually I'll get one (unless they decide people just don't like it enough and come out with Nintendo 8 a year from now) but not at $250 (or $200).

I almost picked up a 4GB XBox for $99 a couple weeks ago because we have so many unopened 360 games I'd rather have one on 2 TVS than buy a new XBox One that won't play 360 games!

SMB3DL is not a port.  And it is easily the best Mario game I've played in a while.  The graphics are actually quite stunning in person.  The Wii U was only $300 - and that is with a game.


And unlike the xbone, i don't need to buy an entire set of controllers.

Does the ps4 do the same screwjob?
 
2013-12-15 01:20:44 PM

Gergesa: buntz: The MAIN reason I didn't buy a Wii U is the lack of games.

Currently they have more available than 1 or 4.

buntz: What games are MUST haves on the Wii U?

I never liked the term "must have games."  There are no such things as must have games.  Games are a luxury not a necessity.  No systems have ever had a "must have game."

buntz: The Mario games are even re-hashes.

In the same sense the all castlevania games since the first are re-hashes.

buntz: There hasn't been a great Mario game since Galaxy.

Lost credibility here.

For Nintendo doom prophets, I suppose someone should point out that Microsoft has never made money off the Xbox and Sony's level of profitability is also not exactly spectacular either.  Of the three companies, Nintendo has the best solvency so it is not like they are on the verge of collapse.


They're far from the most solvent of the three. Microsoft is, because they sell things other than hardware and video games. Xbox is their way to get into the living room. They make ~$5 billion a quarter, so they have money to burn on the 360 and One.

Nintendo's problem is that they:

1) Haven't had fresh IP in years... you can only play Mario so many times before craving an actual story line
2) Have blatantly ignored some of the more social aspects of gaming, like online play. Where they do actually implement it, it's a farking disaster (I'm looking at you, Pokemon Black/White and Wii) that's completely unintuitive and backwards. 

They need to develop a new franchise that adults want to get into out of more than an enduring sense of nostalgia. They also need to develop a good, workable online multiplayer service that works across multiple offerings. Microsoft did it 10 years ago, Sony's managed to pull it off... why not Nintendo? It's been proven people will pay for the ability to play against others online.

Other things like using older hardware are ancillary, but certainly don't help.
 
2013-12-15 02:41:45 PM

gaspode: HockeyGod98: gaspode: The biggest problem they have is Mario (and their other old IPs). Sure it is a moneymaker BUT it stifles any impression of them as anything but a fetish toy maker for existing nintendo fans. And that market isnt going to get bigger at all. I have no doubt the games are good but the world doesnt want another farkign mario/zelda game it really doesnt.

They need need need strong new IPs and to give an impression of producing hardware people desire. The Wii was a complete one-off, and they clearly know that.. but they arent doing anything interesting to those who have no interest in their old IPs as far as I can see. Among a strong modern lineup those old games would pick up new fans, but when they are the only visible attraction people aint buying.

Yes, having the most iconic IPs in the history of the medium has really been a burden. They need "Righteous Slaughter - Sh*t Stick 3000" kind of IPs.

It is a blessing AND a curse. That was the point.

They need new and exciting IP. Every company needs this ever few years. There is nothing new or exciting about another Mario game, unless you already care.


Last I knew, they have the rights to the Fatal Frame franchise. Considering it involves hunting ghosts with a camera, they have the opportunity something totally unique.

AdamK: Mad_Radhu: AdamK: LesserEvil: I should have also mentioned, comparing the profits of Nintendo to Microsoft or Sony's "game console" divisions is misleading at best, since Microsoft includes mobile and entertainment products - and let's face it, throwing Zune and Windows Phones into the mix is hardly fair to the Xbox line... same goes for Sony and the PSVita and PSP sales, which were abysmal. I also think those numbers would probably also take a hit from MS and Sony buying up game design studios and the like, as well.

In the long term, they aren't in the game console business to deliver games, so much as they are to provide a multitude of "services" they can charge consumers for. For them, it is about market share, period, and on that count they are dominating.

i hate services, if i ever buy a ps4 or xbone i'm not subscribing to PS+ or XBLG... so yeah, i hope Valve, Apple and Nintendo never get into that territory because it's just not for me

PS+ is actually an awesome deal because for $50 a year you get a shiatload of free games for the PS3. If you don't have time to keep up with the latest and greatest like me, it is a nice inexpensive way to enjoy some older titles. In the last year I've seen games like Borderlands 2, Uncharted 3, Deus Ex:HR, XCOM, Saints Row III, Sleeping Dogs, Shadow of the Colossus, and Ico all offered for free with subscription, so I've gotten my money's worth out of the service.

yeah... see for me i already bought all of those titles for way less than $50 total on steam, i was never at the mercy of a service - i simply waited and picked what i wanted to play

more importantly, i don't like subscriptions in my entertainment - i put up with it for access to internet and stuff like netflix, but that's about as far as i'm willing to go

access to games i can already access? nope


True, but think of how valuable it is to newcomers. Heck, it's worth it for Ico, SOTC and Uncharted 3 alone.
 
2013-12-15 02:52:11 PM
...and I just accidentally the whole thing.
 
2013-12-15 03:11:11 PM

Marine1: 1) Haven't had fresh IP in years... you can only play Mario so many times before craving an actual story line


Not all games require heavy storyline, but you are welcome to enjoy the various mario rpgs and mario and luigi team up games to your hearts content. I did.

Marine1: 2) Have blatantly ignored some of the more social aspects of gaming, like online play.


This I'll grant you, although honestly the older I get the less interested I am in playing a console online. Console gamers online make mmorpg players look like philosophers, religious leaders, and secretaries of defense.
 
2013-12-15 03:30:07 PM

Carth: AdamK: i hate services,

The internet must be a really annoying place for you right now since just about all useful content is going towards services as more people are blocking ads.


if it isn't for access to the internet, or for programs, i'm not subscribing... there's no amount of useless trivia on the internet worth subscribing for

Smackledorfer:

Does the ps4 do the same screwjob?

outside of 3rd party peripherals like steering wheels, yes the PS4 isn't backwards compatible with any controllers you bought for the ps3

kroonermanblack:

A PSN card is 50$ for 12 months. That's less than 5$ a month. It's hardly the onerous burden you make it out to be.

And the free games aren't a competitor to new releases; you might as well say 'I bought those games new on the ps3, what good does this do me?!'


$50 a year is $50 a year, not sure why that's not an issue, it was an issue with XBLG it's still an issue with PS+ especially since they're basically the same services at this point... not sure why i'd flip a switch in my head after not paying an extra $50 a year on PS3 for 6 years and suddenly say "i don't feel like not spending extra money for no reason at all, my wallet is too full"

and my point with steam was that i could pick and choose whatever games i wanted at a cheap price, just because a game is gifted to you doesn't mean i want to play it or feel worth from having paid to access it for "free"... and i don't want somebody else choosing for me what i get for my money's worth, i'd rather just play what i want to play

you're right in that it's a good deal for beginners, but everything is a good deal for somebody, i can only argue for myself

buntz:

Ad hominems aside, you're right that I do expect at least one 'hit' game with a new console.  Not all, but 3D World was just a port.  Batman was old.  Zombie U was a showcase but from what I've read, not a great one.
There just hasn't been any games that people are wowed about.

And you're right, because of this, the price needs to be cut.  What was it originally $350? I can't remember the initial price but it was pretty high for a port and bland 'showcase' game.

I have no doubt eventually I'll get one (unless they decide people just don't like it enough and come out with Nintendo 8 a year from now) but not at $250 (or $200).

I almost picked up a 4GB XBox for $99 a couple weeks ago because we have so many unopened 360 games I'd rather have one on 2 TVS than buy a new XBox One that won't play 360 games!


not sure if you know what a port is

as for the wii u it launched with a $299 SKU and a $349 SKU, the current $299 SKU is just the $349 version with a price drop

either way games sell systems, so when you build up a library and have your equivalent of an "event" game at the beginning of Year 2 and nothing happens, it's not the games it's the platform that's the problem

i'm not sure i'm jaded enough to think people don't want nintendo games at all anymore, but they're willing to have depressing biatchfests over EA and Activision games every year... something's not right
 
2013-12-15 04:09:21 PM

Mike_LowELL: Hardware and good games don't drive saves anymore.  Video games are dead.


The WiiU hardware is about $100 overpriced. Maybe they should fix that. Then, people might buy it and 3rd party devs might give a sh*t about it. The PS4 and One are selling like hotcakes.
 
2013-12-15 05:29:01 PM

Gergesa: Passive Aggressive Larry: You need your Xbox/Playstation/PC for all of the top of the line gaming experiences

Hardcore gamer has arrived.


Obligatory loser who thinks labeling gamers means anything has arrived.

I play everything. Spent the last two weeks playing my new Wii U. I still play my Wii. But I know the two more technologically advanced consoles and PC are going to the places to play most of the biggest releases of the foreseeable future. That just seems like stating the obvious. Should I throw phones and tablets in there as well? I game on those too. That's why I advocate getting all of the systems, I hate missing out on good games wherever they are released. Looking down on others for the way they choose to play games, or the games they play, is farking stupid.
 
2013-12-15 08:43:44 PM

blacksharpiemarker: The N64 was the last Nintendo system to have great games and they were arguably technological achievements of the time.

Nintendo fans have wanted a mature Zelda for over a decade.Gamers have also repeatedly stated they'd suck **** for a competently designed and well executed Pokemon Online.

Nintendo would do well to remove the cotton from their ears and listen to the fans that have grown up with the brand and now have all the money to spend. They keep designing games for 12 year olds without acknowledging that even the 12 year olds would rather play something catered to a different age market. (GTA 5 sold a billion dollars with in three days, I wonder why?)

Nintendo is their own problem. They have plenty of valuable IP they're sitting on with no intention to develop competent, challenging, intelligent games with. The cutesy preschool stuff will only get them so far, and will eventually end their business all together.


n64 was the last with great games? oh please.

odd controls aside, metroid prime had really nailed the atmosphere and gameplay.


gamecube also had the first two pikmin, and battle mode in pikmin 2/3 is farking win.
 
2013-12-15 09:09:39 PM

Lanadapter: n64 was the last with great games? oh please.

odd controls aside, metroid prime had really nailed the atmosphere and gameplay.


gamecube also had the first two pikmin, and battle mode in pikmin 2/3 is farking win.


Metroid: Prime was fantastic. Sorry, to clarify what I was trying to say, N64 was the last Nintendo system to have a wide selection of excellent games.

Gamecube had a few good ones. Prime was definitely one of them, RE4 as well.
 
2013-12-15 09:15:26 PM

blacksharpiemarker: Lanadapter: n64 was the last with great games? oh please.

odd controls aside, metroid prime had really nailed the atmosphere and gameplay.


gamecube also had the first two pikmin, and battle mode in pikmin 2/3 is farking win.

Metroid: Prime was fantastic. Sorry, to clarify what I was trying to say, N64 was the last Nintendo system to have a wide selection of excellent games.

Gamecube had a few good ones. Prime was definitely one of them, RE4 as well.


I hacked my wii the other day.

I can now easily play all the n64 games (never had an interest in emulating it before) and no it does not have some rich selection of games. It was pretty meh when looking at it
 
2013-12-15 11:04:01 PM

AdamK: $50 a year is $50 a year, not sure why that's not an issue, it was an issue with XBLG it's still an issue with PS+ especially since they're basically the same services at this point...


Except not really?  PSN+ or whatever they're calling it offers free games. XBL does not. Both are required if you want to play multiplayer on many (all) games, but we'll let that slide. I personally don't.  You also get free DLC with a subscription but I bet you're one of those 'whargarble dlc is satan's cock' people.

The point is, 50$, for a year...is stupid to biatch about. That's not getting a Coffee once a month. Or not eating out once a month. Sure, if you're living on 20,000$ a year, that's a lot. But clearly you're fine with playing old games, if you're relegating yourself, already, to picking up heavy sale steam games.

If you're going to play the bargain card, you've now got several games you wouldn't have ever bought (or maybe some you wanted but wouldn't buy, or even some you actually wanted period) for free.  Steam would have charged you 5$.  Wee, you just made that cost up.

Yes, it's completely random as far as what's free, but you're sitting there plugging your ears screaming rather than actually looking at the services the subscription provides.  It's really worth the price.

This is ignoring that most of the features on the Xbox are gated by having an XBLG account, which I think is bullshiat and is yet another reason I won't buy one (seriously, NETFLIX requires a gold account? fark you Xbox. It's free on PSN).  And ignoring that most of the time you can pick up a PSN+ or XBLG card on sale somewhere. I personally snagged one for 20$ during the black friday sale on Amazon.

It also depends on your use; if you (and I assume you are) are primarily a computer gamer...no, it probably doesn't make sense for YOU to buy a PSN+ card, if you're just going to use the PS3 for the odd exclusive title. But if you're using the PS3 as your primary game player, it makes a lot of sense for the benefits it offers.
 
2013-12-16 12:18:08 AM
Disclaimer: I have carpal tunnel but I'm in that "wonderful" limbo where it's bad enough that it affects my life but not bad enough to qualify for surgery. :(

I tried the Wii years ago at my sister's house and ended up handing someone else the wiimote after about 10 minutes because my wrists felt like I was getting stabbed. I haven't tried the Wii U or DS/2DS/3DS yet... hopefully I can use a stylus without a problem. It's bad enough that I can't write for 30 seconds without my wrists hurting. :/
 
2013-12-16 12:43:31 AM

AgentKGB: Disclaimer: I have carpal tunnel but I'm in that "wonderful" limbo where it's bad enough that it affects my life but not bad enough to qualify for surgery. :(

I tried the Wii years ago at my sister's house and ended up handing someone else the wiimote after about 10 minutes because my wrists felt like I was getting stabbed. I haven't tried the Wii U or DS/2DS/3DS yet... hopefully I can use a stylus without a problem. It's bad enough that I can't write for 30 seconds without my wrists hurting. :/


Can't shake the ol' Wiimote? How do you get on in life that way?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8f7vy_alec-plays-the-wii_fun
 
2013-12-16 01:10:39 AM

Smackledorfer: Gamecube had a few good ones. Prime was definitely one of them, RE4 as well.

I hacked my wii the other day.

I can now easily play all the n64 games (never had an interest in emulating it before) and no it does not have some rich selection of games. It was pretty meh when looking at it


Looking back they may not seem significant, but I stand by my statement that it had the best and most technologically significant games of that era compared to those that came after it (certainly as far as Nintendo goes):

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Super Mario 64
GoldenEye 007
Perfect Dark
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Turok 2: Seeds of Evil
Paper Mario
Mario Kart 64
Pokemon Stadium
Star Wars Episode I: Racer
Pokemon Snap
Resident Evil 2
Banjo-Kazooie

Etc, etc, etc. Those are only to name a few and many of them were exclusives.
 
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