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(The Raw Story)   Religious scholar Reza Aslan tells the world Megyn Kelly was only half right- Jesus is not white, but Christ is. Well, that clears that up   (rawstory.com) divider line 297
    More: Followup, Reza Aslan, Megyn Kelly, Jesus Christ, theologies, teachings of Jesus, Hindu deities  
•       •       •

3991 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Dec 2013 at 6:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-13 06:58:38 PM  
Jesus was an extraterrestrial.
 
2013-12-13 06:59:09 PM  

EvilEgg: His dad was white so there is at least even odds Jesus is white.


I thought God was Alanis Morissette
 
2013-12-13 07:01:33 PM  
Th paragraph near the end where he says Kelly is right because Jesus is perceived the way the believer "perceives humanity" is gold. He is saying, right there, that Kelly is racist. She perceives humanity as white. Bu that is where I disagree with him. I think he has mistaken the incarnation of "humanity" with the incarnation of "mercy" for one's own, local problems.

But the racism he pins her with in that paragraph is precious.
 
2013-12-13 07:03:15 PM  

impaler: DirkValentine: It's not enough to just go to Republican Church on Sundays, if you don't truly believe the Republican Religion in your heart of hearts, the derp won't flow through you, it will destroy you.

I don't know, man.  I honestly don't pay any attention to Fox outside of links about it but what I have seen tells me there are some serious sociopathic grifters that are there specifically b/c they have critical thinking skills and the ability to disown their soul and use them for the forces of evil.

You make a good point. You don't have to be a true believer, as long as you're a sociopath or don't have a soul.

These people make up the priestly class of the Republican Religion.


I laughed and cried inside.  So farking true.
 
2013-12-13 07:03:50 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Th paragraph near the end where he says Kelly is right because Jesus is perceived the way the believer "perceives humanity" is gold. He is saying, right there, that Kelly is racist. She perceives humanity as white. Bu that is where I disagree with him. I think he has mistaken the incarnation of "humanity" with the incarnation of "mercy" for one's own, local problems.

But the racism he pins her with in that paragraph is precious.


"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

- Rand Paul
 
2013-12-13 07:05:32 PM  

EvilEgg: His dad was white so there is at least even odds Jesus is white.


static.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-13 07:08:32 PM  

Amish Tech Support: Jesus was an extraterrestrial.


and he built my hotrod.

/wamma lamma ding  dong
 
2013-12-13 07:12:26 PM  
"Historical" Jesus can be any color you want, too, because the guy was apocryphal.
 
2013-12-13 07:12:42 PM  

George Babbitt: This is the only thread submission today on this story that has at least put forth an accurate take.

/not subby


In my view, that should automatically disqualify it from being greenlit. Accuracy is rarely if ever funny.
 
2013-12-13 07:14:21 PM  
Jesus as the Reincarnation of Mithra The Vatican was built upon the grounds previously devoted to the worship of Mithra (600 B.C.). The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version.
Virtually all of the elements of Orthodox Christian rituals, from miter, wafer, water baptism, alter, and doxology, were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan mystery religions. The religion of Mithra preceded Christianity by roughly six hundred years. Mithraic worship at one time covered a large portion of the ancient world. It flourished as late as the second century.
The Messianic idea originated in ancient Persia and this is where the Jewish and Christian concepts of a Savior came from. Mithra, as the sun god of ancient Persia, had the following karmic similarities with Jesus:
.
Identical Life Experiences
1. Mithra was born on December 25th as an offspring of the Sun. Next to the gods Ormuzd and Ahrimanes, Mithra held the highest rank among the gods of ancient Persia. He was represented as a beautiful youth and a Mediator. Reverend J. W. Lake states: "Mithras is spiritual light contending with spiritual darkness, and through his labors the kingdom of darkness shall be lit with heaven's own light; the Eternal will receive all things back into his favor, the world will be redeemed to God. The impure are to be purified, and the evil made good, through the mediation of Mithras, the reconciler of Ormuzd and Ahriman. Mithras is the Good, his name is Love. In relation to the Eternal he is the source of grace, in relation to man he is the life-giver and mediator" (Plato, Philo, and Paul, p. 15).

2. He was considered a great traveling teacher and masters. He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras also performed miracles.

3. Mithra was called "the good shepherd, "the way, the truth and the light, redeemer, savior, Messiah." He was identified with both the lion and the lamb.

4. The International Encyclopedia states: "Mithras seems to have owed his prominence to the belief that he was the source of life, and could also redeem the souls of the dead into the better world ... The ceremonies included a sort of baptism to remove sins, anointing, and a sacred meal of bread and water, while a consecrated wine, believed to possess wonderful power, played a prominent part."

5. Chambers Encyclopedia says: "The most important of his many festivals was his birthday, celebrated on the 25th of December, the day subsequently fixed -- against all evidence -- as the birthday of Christ. The worship of Mithras early found its way into Rome, and the mysteries of Mithras, which fell in the spring equinox, were famous even among the many Roman festivals. The ceremonies observed in the initiation to these mysteries -- symbolical of the struggle between Ahriman and Ormuzd (the Good and the Evil) -- were of the most extraordinary and to a certain degree even dangerous character. Baptism and the partaking of a mystical liquid, consisting of flour and water, to be drunk with the utterance of sacred formulas, were among the inauguration acts."

6. Prof. Franz Cumont, of the University of Ghent, writes as follows concerning the religion of Mithra and the religion of Christ: "The sectaries of the Persian god, like the Christians', purified themselves by baptism, received by a species of confirmation the power necessary to combat the spirit of evil; and expected from a Lord's supper salvation of body and soul. Like the latter, they also held Sunday sacred, and celebrated the birth of the Sun on the 25th of December.... They both preached a categorical system of ethics, regarded asceticism as meritorious and counted among their principal virtues abstinence and continence, renunciation and self-control. Their conceptions of the world and of the destiny of man were similar. They both admitted the existence of a Heaven inhabited by beatified ones, situated in the upper regions, and of a Hell, peopled by demons, situated in the bowels of the Earth. They both placed a flood at the beginning of history; they both assigned as the source of their condition, a primitive revelation; they both, finally, believed in the immortality of the soul, in a last judgment, and in a resurrection of the dead, consequent upon a final conflagration of the universe" (The Mysteries of Mithras, pp. 190, 191).

7. Reverend Charles Biggs stated: "The disciples of Mithra formed an organized church, with a developed hierarchy. They possessed the ideas of Mediation, Atonement, and a Savior, who is human and yet divine, and not only the idea, but a doctrine of the future life. They had a Eucharist, and a Baptism, and other curious analogies might be pointed out between their system and the church of Christ (The Christian Platonists, p. 240).

8. In the catacombs at Rome was preserved a relic of the old Mithraic worship. It was a picture of the infant Mithra seated in the lap of his virgin mother, while on their knees before him were Persian Magi adoring him and offering gifts.

9. He was buried in a tomb and after three days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year.

10. McClintock and Strong wrote: "In modern times Christian writers have been induced to look favorably upon the assertion that some of our ecclesiastical usages (e.g., the institution of the Christmas festival) originated in the cultus of Mithraism. Some writers who refuse to accept the Christian religion as of supernatural origin, have even gone so far as to institute a close comparison with the founder of Christianity; and Dupuis and others, going even beyond this, have not hesitated to pronounce the Gospel simply a branch of Mithraism" (Art. "Mithra").

11. Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected. His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day." The Mithra religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

12. The Christian Father Manes, founder of the heretical sect known as Manicheans, believed that Christ and Mithra were one. His teaching, according to Mosheim, was as follows: "Christ is that glorious intelligence which the Persians called Mithras ... His residence is in the sun" (Ecclesiastical History, 3rd century, Part 2, ch. 5).

"I am a star which goes with thee and shines out of the depths." - Mithraic saying

"I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star." - Jesus, (Revelation 22:16)
 
2013-12-13 07:15:14 PM  
Believable.  Distinct possibility that he may have had dark red (auburn?) hair as well.  Persians had a fair amount of red hair back in the day and are totally obsessed with it nowadays.  Blue eyes? Doubt it.
We keep saying typical Jew-type ignoring the fact that the Jews believe that Christ has yet to walk the face of the earth.  Saw some place that Christ (Isa) may have fallen in lineage as being one of the last prophets of Muslim faith.  Word is he was a minor player but seemed to have gained a small following for believing in peaceful settlement and criticism of the fatwa.
 
2013-12-13 07:15:59 PM  
The notion makes no sense. Race had not yet been invented in the 1st century.
 
2013-12-13 07:16:41 PM  

gilgigamesh: That is actually a pretty sober and wise take on this whole nontroversy.

And since the point is outrage for outrage's sake, I expect the reaction to it will be further outrage.


Actually it is a good take on it. He even points out that Jesus actually ISN'T white.

Of course "nontroversey" is as inaccurate as his statement is. This IS an issue, since she's claiming something that's not true on a new network that purports to be fair, balanced and accurate. SO yeah, it's still an issue.
 
2013-12-13 07:18:54 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Th paragraph near the end where he says Kelly is right because Jesus is perceived the way the believer "perceives humanity" is gold. He is saying, right there, that Kelly is racist. She perceives humanity as white. Bu that is where I disagree with him. I think he has mistaken the incarnation of "humanity" with the incarnation of "mercy" for one's own, local problems.

But the racism he pins her with in that paragraph is precious.


No- he doesn't peg her as racist. Just as a white woman. Christ is as the perceiver.

I am no religious expert but even my southern baptist upbringing and a few freshmen level "religions of man" classes taught me that Jesus looked a lot more like Yasar Arafat than Dolph Lundgren.

What if Jesus were a ginger? An anth class I took way back when stated red hair was common in the mid east centuries ago. Still found in Afghanistan and parts of Asia/caucuses.
 
2013-12-13 07:20:03 PM  
Yeah, but is Santa still white?  This is important!
 
2013-12-13 07:21:20 PM  

cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name


Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?
 
2013-12-13 07:23:54 PM  
Of course Jesus was white, the whole area was just teeming with white dudes 2000 years ago: Peter, Paul, Mary, Matthew, Mark, John, Thomas, Simon, Peter, another Mary, Luke, and on and on. I mean if they weren't white they would have had names like Yosef, Miriam, Yeshua, and the like instead.
 
2013-12-13 07:24:50 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Jesus as the Reincarnation of Mithra The Vatican was built upon the grounds previously devoted to the worship of Mithra (600 B.C.). The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version.
Virtually all of the elements of Orthodox Christian rituals, from miter, wafer, water baptism, alter, and doxology, were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan mystery religions. The religion of Mithra preceded Christianity by roughly six hundred years. Mithraic worship at one time covered a large portion of the ancient world. It flourished as late as the second century.
The Messianic idea originated in ancient Persia and this is where the Jewish and Christian concepts of a Savior came from. Mithra, as the sun god of ancient Persia, had the following karmic similarities with Jesus:
.
Identical Life Experiences
1. Mithra was born on December 25th as an offspring of the Sun. Next to the gods Ormuzd and Ahrimanes, Mithra held the highest rank among the gods of ancient Persia. He was represented as a beautiful youth and a Mediator. Reverend J. W. Lake states: "Mithras is spiritual light contending with spiritual darkness, and through his labors the kingdom of darkness shall be lit with heaven's own light; the Eternal will receive all things back into his favor, the world will be redeemed to God. The impure are to be purified, and the evil made good, through the mediation of Mithras, the reconciler of Ormuzd and Ahriman. Mithras is the Good, his name is Love. In relation to the Eternal he is the source of grace, in relation to man he is the life-giver and mediator" (Plato, Philo, and Paul, p. 15).

2. He was considered a great traveling teacher and masters. He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras also performed miracles.

3. Mithra was called "the good shepherd, "the way, the truth and the light, redeemer, savior, Messiah." He was identified with both the lion and the lamb.

4. The International Encyclopedia states: "Mithras seems to ha ...


~~ Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.
~~Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4) Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

We celebrate his birth on the 25th to erase pagan celebrations- probably in honor of Mithra-- and make Christianity more palitable the same time.  Christ more likely born Spring to late Fall
 
2013-12-13 07:26:25 PM  
Being born on Nov 22 would not make me Rodney Dangerfield.
 
2013-12-13 07:26:29 PM  
Jesus probably existed. We have less evidence for other historical figures existing. It's not a stretch that a doomsday carpenter rabbi was preaching interesting ideas in the 1st Century CE and pissed off both the local religious authorities and the Roman actual authorities. It's also not inconceivable that Saul decided to take over the movement because of ambition and completely changed the character, message, and tone of the movement to appeal to non-Jews.

Walking on water, healing the dead, etc, all made-up crap from other religions and movements.
 
2013-12-13 07:27:00 PM  
"and they're different people," Aslan said. "In other words, the Christ can be whatever you want him to be."

I regret reading the article now. This is one partially true statement being responded to by another partially true statement. Jesus is the name given at birth. Christ literally means "the anointed one" which is to say the one recognized by the people as the Messiah. So rather than saying "Jesus of Nazareth, who is the Christ" we shorten it to "Jesus Christ".

But this does not mean that Christ can be whoever one wants him to be. That is the wrong logical leap. While it is true that the Christ can be seen as the "social dimension" as opposed to Jesus the "personal dimension" or "historical dimension" the concept of "the Christ" or "the Messiah" had a specific meaning in Palestine at that time.  The phrase "the Christ" is not a symbolic empty vessel that one can project whatever current cultural constructs one wants on to. This is not to say that people do in fact engage in such projection; it is to say that it is both historically inaccurate and theologically unsound to do so. Asian should not be encouraging this misguided behavior.
 
2013-12-13 07:31:53 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Jesus as the Reincarnation of Mithra The Vatican was built upon the grounds previously devoted to the worship of Mithra (600 B.C.). The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version.
Virtually all of the elements of Orthodox Christian rituals, from miter, wafer, water baptism, alter, and doxology, were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan mystery religions. The religion of Mithra preceded Christianity by roughly six hundred years. Mithraic worship at one time covered a large portion of the ancient world. It flourished as late as the second century.
The Messianic idea originated in ancient Persia and this is where the Jewish and Christian concepts of a Savior came from. Mithra, as the sun god of ancient Persia, had the following karmic similarities with Jesus:
.
Identical Life Experiences
1. Mithra was born on December 25th as an offspring of the Sun. Next to the gods Ormuzd and Ahrimanes, Mithra held the highest rank among the gods of ancient Persia. He was represented as a beautiful youth and a Mediator. Reverend J. W. Lake states: "Mithras is spiritual light contending with spiritual darkness, and through his labors the kingdom of darkness shall be lit with heaven's own light; the Eternal will receive all things back into his favor, the world will be redeemed to God. The impure are to be purified, and the evil made good, through the mediation of Mithras, the reconciler of Ormuzd and Ahriman. Mithras is the Good, his name is Love. In relation to the Eternal he is the source of grace, in relation to man he is the life-giver and mediator" (Plato, Philo, and Paul, p. 15).

2. He was considered a great traveling teacher and masters. He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras also performed miracles.

3. Mithra was called "the good shepherd, "the way, the truth and the light, redeemer, savior, Messiah." He was identified with both the lion and the lamb.

4. The International Encyclopedia states: "Mithras seems to ha ...


I don't see a bull getting stung in the balls by a scorpion in there anywhere...
 
2013-12-13 07:33:52 PM  
I would figure that anyone with the name "Aslan," would know that Jesus Christ is really a lion.

/get in the car
 
2013-12-13 07:34:16 PM  

RussianPooper: cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name

Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?


Hallowed.  You know, "Hallowed be thy name."
 
2013-12-13 07:35:19 PM  

DigitalCoffee: Of course Jesus was white, the whole area was just teeming with white dudes 2000 years ago: Peter, Paul, Mary,


And Puff the Magic dragon was the --- never mind.
 
2013-12-13 07:36:21 PM  

RussianPooper: cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name

Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?


It's not your Western Roman Alphabet "H.", though it does have it's roots in a Latinization of the original Greek translation. It's short for Hella, which is an obscure dialect of a language known as "Oaklandish".

"Hella" means "Awesome", "wicked", "cool", "dope", "dank", and "all things to all people."
 
2013-12-13 07:41:14 PM  
scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-12-13 07:43:19 PM  

worlddan: "and they're different people," Aslan said. "In other words, the Christ can be whatever you want him to be."

I regret reading the article now. This is one partially true statement being responded to by another partially true statement. Jesus is the name given at birth. Christ literally means "the anointed one" which is to say the one recognized by the people as the Messiah. So rather than saying "Jesus of Nazareth, who is the Christ" we shorten it to "Jesus Christ".

But this does not mean that Christ can be whoever one wants him to be. That is the wrong logical leap. While it is true that the Christ can be seen as the "social dimension" as opposed to Jesus the "personal dimension" or "historical dimension" the concept of "the Christ" or "the Messiah" had a specific meaning in Palestine at that time.  The phrase "the Christ" is not a symbolic empty vessel that one can project whatever current cultural constructs one wants on to. This is not to say that people do in fact engage in such projection; it is to say that it is both historically inaccurate and theologically unsound to do so. Asian should not be encouraging this misguided behavior.


You regret reading the article because you disagree? So the hierarchy of religious scholars is-
Tied for 2nd- fox news gal and aslan reza and in first place worlddan?

Thanks for enlightening us- Buddha
 
2013-12-13 07:43:52 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: I think somebody would've noted it at the time if two swarthy Palestinian parents gave birth to a blond, blue-eyed white kid.

That would've literally been rarer than another messiah being born.


Well it is true that some Romans were blondies, some even with red hair (alll sorts of them named things like Rufus, Ahenobarbus, Albus, Aurelius, Flavius, etc)  So it's entirely possible that a local girl with some wandering merchants and soldiers in her family tree could throw a blond messiah if she hooked up with a legionary out on the town.

I always figured Jesus was a lil' bastard, but Joseph raised him right.
 
2013-12-13 07:44:41 PM  
Maybe...

www.dvdtalk.com

...depends on what you think about the 'Holy Trinity'.
 
2013-12-13 07:45:31 PM  

tinyarena: EvilEgg: His dad was white so there is at least even odds Jesus is white.

[mimg.ugo.com image 250x150]


Wait until she learns that Santa is a homicidal robot.
 
2013-12-13 07:45:59 PM  

paidhima: RussianPooper: cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name

Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?

Hallowed.  You know, "Hallowed be thy name."


Howard be thy name
 
2013-12-13 07:50:13 PM  
So when is her show on? 9? I want to know what kind of crap she tries to spin.
 
2013-12-13 07:55:37 PM  
"To put it in the simplest way possible, he would've looked like me," said Aslan, an Iranian-American Muslim.

Jesus drove a white BMW?
 
2013-12-13 07:56:03 PM  

paidhima: RussianPooper: cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name

Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?


It stands for Harold as in: Our Father, who art in Heaven, Harold be thy name
 
2013-12-13 07:56:57 PM  

smellysocksnshoes: .

You regret reading the article because you disagree? So the hierarchy of religious scholars is-
Tied for 2nd- fox news gal and aslan reza and in first place worlddan?

Thanks for enlightening us- Buddha


I disagree because as matter of historical fact he is wrong. When Jesus was born the phrase "the Christ" had a specific and clear meaning. It did not mean anything that one wanted it to mean, which is his argument. It meant something quite specific. Indeed, much of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John was written precisely to demonstrate that Jesus of Nazareth met the definition of "the Christ" that people at that time were expecting/desiring to see. It would come as big news to citizen in zero AD that "the Christ" meant anything one wanted it to mean.
 
2013-12-13 07:57:06 PM  
Jon Stewart's take on this was pretty awesome last night.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdkGA_rgHRY
 
2013-12-13 07:57:45 PM  
Perhaps a little insight from Mr Huey Freeman might help Mrs Kelly out on this whole "Jesus is white" thing (probably uncensored and NSFW):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZzcKxnhBog

Oh yeah, and she should know that "Santa is a biatch-ass nubian" ;)


i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-13 08:00:48 PM  

worlddan: I disagree because as matter of historical fact he is wrong. When Jesus was born the phrase "the Christ" had a specific and clear meaning. It did not mean anything that one wanted it to mean, which is his argument. It meant something quite specific. Indeed, much of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John was written precisely to demonstrate that Jesus of Nazareth met the definition of "the Christ" that people at that time were expecting/desiring to see. It would come as big news to citizen in zero AD that "the Christ" meant anything one wanted it to mean.


It's just a semantic difference. Aslan means Jesus "the guy" versus Christ "the magical parts."
 
2013-12-13 08:00:50 PM  
I honestly believe that Megyn Kelly is definitely a Conservative, but she doesn't always believe the bullshiat she has to peddle, and this is one of those instances where she overreached trying to pay the lip service she is required to.

If anything, it seems to me she is aware the average FOX News viewer believes some cartoonish bullshiat.  The whole thing is so bizarre. It's like she felt required to jump into a mud puddle.
 
2013-12-13 08:01:38 PM  
As usual, the real irony here is what Kelly said just before she made the big statements everyone's jumping on her for:

"You can't just change what you're not comfortable with."

This, from a mouthpiece for a network for a movement that's trying to erase Thomas Jefferson's real accomplishments from history because they either weren't made in the name of Almighty God...or worse, against the name of Almighty God.
 
2013-12-13 08:03:39 PM  

Zerochance: I honestly believe that Megyn Kelly is definitely a Conservative, but she doesn't always believe the bullshiat she has to peddle, and this is one of those instances where she overreached trying to pay the lip service she is required to.

If anything, it seems to me she is aware the average FOX News viewer believes some cartoonish bullshiat.  The whole thing is so bizarre. It's like she felt required to jump into a mud puddle.


Yep, that's about my take on it.
 
2013-12-13 08:04:17 PM  

PanicMan: That's actually a really smart way of looking at it.


Everything is a "smart way of looking at it" if it confirms your pre-existing belief.  However, the statements of Aslan are completely wrong.

FTA:  "If you're Chinese, then God is a Chinese man. If you're Middle Eastern, then God is a Middle Eastern man. If you're a blond, blue-eyed, white suburbanite woman, then God is a blond, blue-eyed suburbanite," Aslan said.

Corrected Statement:  "If you're Chinese, then God is God and if you think God is Chinese then you are wrong.  If you're Middle Eastern, then God is God and if you think God is a Middle Eastern man, you're also wrong.  If you're a blond, blue-eyed white suburbanite woman, then God is God, not a blond, blue-eyed suburbanite.  If you define God as being in your image, you're doing it backwards."

The essential direction given by the Bible is "learn God's ways and do them."  That is too demanding for the vast, vast majority of people ("'Thou shalt not lie'?  Really?  I think that's um...a metaphor.  Yeah."), so the re-define "God" until their God suits their ordinary self-serving desires.  However, God remains the same no matter what picture you paint.  Adopting the lax thinking of people like Kelly and Aslan is just going to get you killed when Ps. 37:9, 10 rolls around.
 
2013-12-13 08:04:57 PM  

RussianPooper: cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name

Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?


Stands for Hussein, like all of the chosen ones.
 
2013-12-13 08:06:07 PM  

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Maybe...

[www.dvdtalk.com image 400x234]

...depends on what you think about the 'Holy Trinity'.


I thought I was the only one here who remembered that film.
 
2013-12-13 08:09:19 PM  

grokca: RussianPooper: cretinbob: Christ is a title, not a name

Oh yeah, then why is his middle name "H."?

Stands for Hussein, like all of the chosen ones.



Hebe?
 
2013-12-13 08:15:37 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Jesus probably existed. We have less evidence for other historical figures existing. It's not a stretch that a doomsday carpenter rabbi was preaching interesting ideas in the 1st Century CE and pissed off both the local religious authorities and the Roman actual authorities. It's also not inconceivable that Saul decided to take over the movement because of ambition and completely changed the character, message, and tone of the movement to appeal to non-Jews.

Walking on water, healing the dead, etc, all made-up crap from other religions and movements.


Probably metaphors anyhow.  Damned metaphors.
 
2013-12-13 08:16:54 PM  

worlddan: smellysocksnshoes: .

You regret reading the article because you disagree? So the hierarchy of religious scholars is-
Tied for 2nd- fox news gal and aslan reza and in first place worlddan?

Thanks for enlightening us- Buddha

I disagree because as matter of historical fact he is wrong. When Jesus was born the phrase "the Christ" had a specific and clear meaning. It did not mean anything that one wanted it to mean, which is his argument. It meant something quite specific. Indeed, much of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John was written precisely to demonstrate that Jesus of Nazareth met the definition of "the Christ" that people at that time were expecting/desiring to see. It would come as big news to citizen in zero AD that "the Christ" meant anything one wanted it to mean.


Yes.  "Somebody wasted some perfectly good olive oil by dumping it on your noggin".  There had already been several of them before, including King David and Cyrus the Great.  Hell, John Ashcroft is the Crisco Christ.  Double Hell: I've had extra virgin slapped on my head; I am white; ergo, Christ is white!

Also, if it was so precise and clear, four dudes would not have had to use up a middling-large BP spill worth of ink to explain it to all and sundry.  If you have to say 'take these seven passages from different parts of the Hebrew Scripture, treat them as if they were all written at the same time by the same person (despite sometimes being written centuries apart), now pretty much ignore the plain meanings of half the words, and substitute some dodgy variants I have come up with, then squint at them until I finish beaning you over the head with this mallet" it is not clear.  If you have to do all of that four different goddamn times with slightly different-sized mallets - and the vast majority of the people who are steeped in the passages you are quoting still think you are delusional* - it is glaringly not specific and not clear.

* And, in fact, the majority of people willing to accept your spin are those who have not one bloody iota of a clue about what your word means
 
2013-12-13 08:17:58 PM  
I've always believed that Christianity has more to do with Paul and his work in Rome than it ever had to do with Jesus.
 
2013-12-13 08:19:40 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: It's just a semantic difference. Aslan means Jesus "the guy" versus Christ "the magical parts."


It is not semantics because in Jesus Christ "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us." In Jesus "the guy" and Christ "the magical bits" are one and the same thing. That is the definition of incarnation. Jesus is God incarnate. It can sometimes be useful for the purposes of theological clarity to talk about those two aspects as if they were different things but one of the dangers of doing that is to fall into the trap of treating such differences as mere word play.

The Jews of 0 AD had a clear and specific definition of what those "magical bits" were and not any old magical bits were going to do. Not any person could be the Christ no more than the Christ could be any person. There was only one Christ: Jesus. No one is forced to believe that but anyone who doesn't is not Christian in any traditional understanding of that word.
 
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