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(Townhall)   The Politifact "keep your insurance" Lie of the Year? When it was made in 2009, Politifact rated it as being only a Half-Truth... and then upgraded it to True   ( finance.townhall.com) divider line
    More: Followup, PolitiFact, obamacare, say obama, talking points, PBS NewsHour, PolitiFact rated, health insurance  
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1134 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Dec 2013 at 5:19 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-13 05:06:29 PM  
Townhall now supports fact checkers. How do they keep themselves from getting dizzy?
 
2013-12-13 05:11:33 PM  

lockers: Townhall now supports fact checkers. How do they keep themselves from getting dizzy?


More like crushed under the weight of their own BS
 
2013-12-13 05:16:19 PM  
The WSJ ran an article on this. I guess Politifact was hoping people forgot they bought in back when it mattered.
 
2013-12-13 05:21:32 PM  
We know, subby. The discussion already happened. Thanks, though, we know it's complete crap.
 
2013-12-13 05:22:21 PM  
I don't think Politifact foresaw the number of people that would have lost their insurance--and they probably would have taken into account that it was written into the bill that there was a watermark for what constituted an decent policy.

I mean--isn't it really a half truth anyway? The caveat was that you needed a policy that wasn't written in piss on a paper towel anyway, right?
 
2013-12-13 05:22:21 PM  
img819.imageshack.us
 
2013-12-13 05:25:16 PM  
Well it is true. According to the law you can keep it. However according to the insurance companies you can go screw yourself.
 
2013-12-13 05:26:32 PM  
The actual lie of the year in 2009:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/dec/18/politifa ct -lie-year-death-panels/

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but when did the Death Panel thing become true?
 
2013-12-13 05:27:07 PM  
Obama's biggest mistake here was that it never occurred to him that there would be a lot of Americans enjoy being screwed.
 
2013-12-13 05:27:58 PM  
Politifact sucks.  "Fact-checking" sucks.  The idea that truth is always cut and dry sucks.

According to Politifact, if I were to say today that the Baltimore Ravens were the NFL champions, my statement would be a lie a few months later.

/unless they repeat.
 
2013-12-13 05:28:20 PM  

TimonC346: I don't think Politifact foresaw the number of people that would have lost their insurance--and they probably would have taken into account that it was written into the bill that there was a watermark for what constituted an decent policy.

I mean--isn't it really a half truth anyway? The caveat was that you needed a policy that wasn't written in piss on a paper towel anyway, right?


Perhaps that makes it a half truth.

But those touting it as false almost unanimously ignore the policies that were below minimum standards and put all their focus on policies that would be grandfathered in but the insurance companies don't feel like continuing.

So saying it is false because low-coverage policies aren't staying around is silly. Plus, did anyone REALLY like those policies anyway? Or were they ignorant about what they actually got?
 
2013-12-13 05:29:21 PM  
This is why Politifact is awful. They rate things based on what will get them the most hits at the time, not whether things are actually true or not.
 
2013-12-13 05:29:35 PM  
When stated, it was not a lie or even a half truth. Insurance plans that existed before the ACA was put into effect were all grandfathered in. If you had an insurance plan that you liked before the ACA, then you did, 100%, get to keep it as far as the government was/is concerned. The issue arises when you realize that insurance companies created new plans, post ACA, that didn't meet restrictions that they KNEW were coming. They basically created new plans knowing full well they'd have to kill them later.

If you ask me on Tuesday if it's raining and I say no, the fact that it rains on Friday doesn't make me a liar.
 
2013-12-13 05:29:45 PM  

sparkeyjames: Well it is true. According to the law you can keep it. However according to the insurance companies you can go screw yourself.


A whole lot of THIS.
 
2013-12-13 05:30:28 PM  

Dafatone: Politifact sucks.  "Fact-checking" sucks.  The idea that truth is always cut and dry sucks.

According to Politifact, if I were to say today that the Baltimore Ravens were the NFL champions, my statement would be a lie a few months later.

/unless they repeat.


Eh, it sucks if you only read the headlines and do no thinking on your own.

Otherwise it is a decent starting point to investigate various claims.
 
2013-12-13 05:30:57 PM  
I'm not sure Obama actually lied.  It all depends on whether he knew that lots of people had unacceptable health insurance plans that needed to be fixed.
 
2013-12-13 05:31:24 PM  
This story officially makes me want people to die.  I officially hate the world now.  It's just so unbelievably stupid.
 
2013-12-13 05:32:52 PM  
As posted in te other thread, these are the restrictions for grandfathered plans...
All health plans must:

End lifetime limits on coverage

End arbitrary cancellations of health coverage

Cover adult children up to age 26
Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short, easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costs

Hold insurance companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative costs and bonuses
---------

Nobody felt like arguing against this in other thread, so why not here?

Anybody want to stand up and fight FOR recission?
 
2013-12-13 05:33:27 PM  

space1999: I'm not sure Obama actually lied.  It all depends on whether he knew that lots of people had unacceptable health insurance plans that needed to be fixed.


Obama's problem is he consistently believes the best of people.  This works in diplomacy -- he believes Iranians aren't the devil, they aren't, and we're now talking.  This doesn't work with the GOP and modern business practices, exemplified by insurance companies, which are out to screw anybody they can, relentlessly.  He didn't think they'd screw over their customers to make the system look bad.
 
2013-12-13 05:34:25 PM  
A lot of people believed it in 2009, the line was so strongly and repetitively delivered.
 
2013-12-13 05:38:42 PM  
Sounds like they have evolved on the issue. Perfectly acceptable.
 
2013-12-13 05:40:01 PM  
Wait, so is ClownHall happy or angry about this?
 
2013-12-13 05:40:13 PM  
Obama lied, if you assume that he was speaking about the provisions in Obamacare that nationalized the health insurance industry, forced the insurance companies to never change plans, and forbade them from ever again screwing over their customers and passing the blame to someone else.
 
2013-12-13 05:40:39 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: space1999: I'm not sure Obama actually lied.  It all depends on whether he knew that lots of people had unacceptable health insurance plans that needed to be fixed.

Obama's problem is he consistently believes the best of people.  This works in diplomacy -- he believes Iranians aren't the devil, they aren't, and we're now talking.  This doesn't work with the GOP and modern business practices, exemplified by insurance companies, which are out to screw anybody they can, relentlessly.  He didn't think they'd screw over their customers to make the system look bad.


I agree.  He's proven to be an excellent analyst and tactician...but a lousy judge of character.
 
2013-12-13 05:41:06 PM  

tricycleracer: Wait, so is ClownHall happy or angry about this?


They always seem angry even when they're happy.

They seem to live very miserable lives.
 
2013-12-13 05:42:02 PM  
PolitiFact lost its credibility a while ago, film at 11.
 
2013-12-13 05:42:03 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: This story officially makes me want people to die.  I officially hate the world now.  It's just so unbelievably stupid.


Agreed. You want your shiatty plan back that takes your money and gives you nothing in return? Have at it. I hope you choke on it.
 
2013-12-13 05:46:26 PM  
how is a quote from 2009 the 2013 lie of the year?
 
2013-12-13 05:46:34 PM  

bulldg4life: As posted in te other thread, these are the restrictions for grandfathered plans...
All health plans must:

End lifetime limits on coverage

End arbitrary cancellations of health coverage

Cover adult children up to age 26
Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short, easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costs

Hold insurance companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative costs and bonuses
---------

Nobody felt like arguing against this in other thread, so why not here?

Anybody want to stand up and fight FOR recission?


Nice list. Everybody loves the goodies in a new law. It's when they find out they have to be paid for and there are also associated unpleasant consequences that people start weighing whether the law is worth it, on balance.
 
2013-12-13 05:48:17 PM  

bulldg4life: recission


I just learned that word the other day. THANKS OBAMA!
 
2013-12-13 05:48:42 PM  

sparkeyjames: Well it is true. According to the law you can keep it. However according to the insurance companies you can go screw yourself.


Hollie Maea: Obama's biggest mistake here was that it never occurred to him that there would be a lot of Americans enjoy being screwed.


cameroncrazy1984: This is why Politifact is awful. They rate things based on what will get them the most hits at the time, not whether things are actually true or not.


With these three posts, that's /thread. We're done here.
 
2013-12-13 05:50:40 PM  

gittlebass: how is a quote from 2009 the 2013 lie of the year?


When it gets Politifact hits and ad views, that's how.
 
2013-12-13 05:51:50 PM  

PanicMan: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: This story officially makes me want people to die.  I officially hate the world now.  It's just so unbelievably stupid.

Agreed. You want your shiatty plan back that takes your money and gives you nothing in return? Have at it. I hope you choke on it.


Another happy-go-lucky member of the left weighs in. Want your old life back instead of the one they've forced on you? He hopes you die.
 
2013-12-13 05:54:18 PM  

sparkeyjames: Well it is true. According to the law you can keep it. However according to the insurance companies you can go screw yourself.


The free market private sector is always right, always wise, and, when not benevolent, always subject to a rational buying populace not subject to externalities.

I don't think you mean to suggest that private insurance company job creator entrepreneurs and titans of industry would do something crass and political not motivated by their desire to create a superior product to solidify their status as one of the producing elite.

That would go against everything I have come to believe in 19 years of reading Ayn Rand novels and posting defenses of child sex trafficking on reddit, and that's quite the résumé.
 
2013-12-13 05:56:32 PM  

jjorsett: bulldg4life: As posted in te other thread, these are the restrictions for grandfathered plans...
All health plans must:

End lifetime limits on coverage

End arbitrary cancellations of health coverage

Cover adult children up to age 26
Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short, easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costs

Hold insurance companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative costs and bonuses
---------

Nobody felt like arguing against this in other thread, so why not here?

Anybody want to stand up and fight FOR recission?

Nice list. Everybody loves the goodies in a new law. It's when they find out they have to be paid for and there are also associated unpleasant consequences that people start weighing whether the law is worth it, on balance.


Good, because we already know this information. The only folks having a problem with this are the people who hate everything related to Obama and the Democrats.
 
2013-12-13 05:57:09 PM  

TimonC346: I mean--isn't it really a half truth anyway? The caveat was that you needed a policy that wasn't written in piss on a paper towel anyway, right?


So if that caveat were actually included in the statement, it would be true.

Smackledorfer: So saying it is false because low-coverage policies aren't staying around is silly. Plus, did anyone REALLY like those policies anyway? Or were they ignorant about what they actually got?


Just because you like the fact that it's false doesn't make it not false.

gittlebass: how is a quote from 2009 the 2013 lie of the year?


For the pageviews.
 
2013-12-13 05:58:46 PM  

jjorsett: PanicMan: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: This story officially makes me want people to die.  I officially hate the world now.  It's just so unbelievably stupid.

Agreed. You want your shiatty plan back that takes your money and gives you nothing in return? Have at it. I hope you choke on it.

Another happy-go-lucky member of the left weighs in. Want your old life back instead of the one they've forced on you? He hopes you die.


No. It does not work like that. It would be like you keep your wife, but now she is prettier and makes a bit more money.
 
2013-12-13 06:00:58 PM  

BMFPitt: TimonC346: I mean--isn't it really a half truth anyway? The caveat was that you needed a policy that wasn't written in piss on a paper towel anyway, right?

So if that caveat were actually included in the statement, it would be true.

Smackledorfer: So saying it is false because low-coverage policies aren't staying around is silly. Plus, did anyone REALLY like those policies anyway? Or were they ignorant about what they actually got?

Just because you like the fact that it's false doesn't make it not false.

gittlebass: how is a quote from 2009 the 2013 lie of the year?

For the pageviews.


That is a ridiculous response to my points.

Btw, technically their 'liking' of a plan is in fact important in determining the truth of his if-then statement.
 
2013-12-13 06:09:05 PM  

jjorsett: PanicMan: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: This story officially makes me want people to die.  I officially hate the world now.  It's just so unbelievably stupid.

Agreed. You want your shiatty plan back that takes your money and gives you nothing in return? Have at it. I hope you choke on it.

Another happy-go-lucky member of the left weighs in. Want your old life back instead of the one they've forced on you? He hopes you die.


How come you don't use a market solution and take your money elsewhere?
 
2013-12-13 06:12:23 PM  

gittlebass: how is a quote from 2009 the 2013 lie of the year?


Obamaflation
 
2013-12-13 06:14:57 PM  

jjorsett: PanicMan: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: This story officially makes me want people to die.  I officially hate the world now.  It's just so unbelievably stupid.

Agreed. You want your shiatty plan back that takes your money and gives you nothing in return? Have at it. I hope you choke on it.

Another happy-go-lucky member of the left weighs in. Want your old life back instead of the one they've forced on you? He hopes you die.


Not when the taxpayers would have to subsidize your cheap/ignorant ass when an actual medical crisis bankrupts you thanks to your "healthcare plan."
 
2013-12-13 06:17:28 PM  

Pappas: When stated, it was not a lie or even a half truth. Insurance plans that existed before the ACA was put into effect were all grandfathered in. If you had an insurance plan that you liked before the ACA, then you did, 100%, get to keep it as far as the government was/is concerned. The issue arises when you realize that insurance companies created new plans, post ACA, that didn't meet restrictions that they KNEW were coming. They basically created new plans knowing full well they'd have to kill them later.

If you ask me on Tuesday if it's raining and I say no, the fact that it rains on Friday doesn't make me a liar.


Bears bears bears.
 
2013-12-13 06:21:07 PM  

jjorsett: bulldg4life: As posted in te other thread, these are the restrictions for grandfathered plans...
All health plans must:

End lifetime limits on coverage

End arbitrary cancellations of health coverage

Cover adult children up to age 26
Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short, easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costs


Hold insurance companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative costs and bonuses

---------

Nobody felt like arguing against this in other thread, so why not here?

Anybody want to stand up and fight FOR recission?

Nice list. Everybody loves the goodies in a new law. It's when they find out they have to be paid for and there are also associated unpleasant consequences that people start weighing whether the law is worth it, on balance.


The bolded is the main reason they balked.

Society already pays for healthcare one way or another, this just prevents insurance companies from raping people.
 
2013-12-13 06:22:50 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: sparkeyjames: Well it is true. According to the law you can keep it. However according to the insurance companies you can go screw yourself.

The free market private sector is always right, always wise, and, when not benevolent, always subject to a rational buying populace not subject to externalities.

I don't think you mean to suggest that private insurance company job creator entrepreneurs and titans of industry would do something crass and political not motivated by their desire to create a superior product to solidify their status as one of the producing elite.

That would go against everything I have come to believe in 19 years of reading Ayn Rand novels and posting defenses of child sex trafficking on reddit, and that's quite the résumé.



But, it's hard when you are an Übermensch to not think, every now and then, in times of quiet contemplation:

       If the private sector behaves rationally, why is advertising a half trillion dollar industry?
 
2013-12-13 06:33:02 PM  

Smackledorfer: That is a ridiculous response to my points.

Btw, technically their 'liking' of a plan is in fact important in determining the truth of his if-then statement


As it turns out, whether or not they like it is not related to whether you approve of it.

I don't get the compulsion to defend a 4 year old talking point.  The whole point of the law was for it not to be true.  Now that you have your law, why bother with this?
 
2013-12-13 06:35:06 PM  

BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: That is a ridiculous response to my points.

Btw, technically their 'liking' of a plan is in fact important in determining the truth of his if-then statement

As it turns out, whether or not they like it is not related to whether you approve of it.

I don't get the compulsion to defend a 4 year old talking point.   The whole point of the law was for it not to be true. Now that you have your law, why bother with this?


The point was for you not to be able to keep insurance you like?

Whose law? It matches up largely with what republicans intitially proposed.
 
2013-12-13 06:54:28 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: space1999: I'm not sure Obama actually lied.  It all depends on whether he knew that lots of people had unacceptable health insurance plans that needed to be fixed.

Obama's problem is he consistently believes the best of people.  This works in diplomacy -- he believes Iranians aren't the devil, they aren't, and we're now talking.  This doesn't work with the GOP and modern business practices, exemplified by insurance companies, which are out to screw anybody they can, relentlessly.  He didn't think they'd screw over their customers to make the system look bad.


And he vastly overestimated the intelligence of a segment of the electorate. He didn't expect that so many people would claim to like paying for healthcare coverage that didn't actually cover healthcare.
 
2013-12-13 06:57:51 PM  

liam76: The point was for you not to be able to keep insurance you like?


If it didn't fit the minimum requirements, yes.  Were you unaware of the basic premise of how it is supposed to work?

Whose law? It matches up largely with what republicans intitially proposed.

You are the one supporting it.  So I guess that makes you a Republican.
 
2013-12-13 07:03:07 PM  

BMFPitt: liam76: The point was for you not to be able to keep insurance you like?

If it didn't fit the minimum requirements, yes. Were you unaware of the basic premise of how it is supposed to work?


Insurance plans that didn't meet the minimum requirements back in 2009 were grandfathered in.
 
2013-12-13 07:05:03 PM  
So we've gone full reverse Karl Rove?

The repetition that the truth is a lie makes it a lie?
 
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