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(Network World)   Not only has Windows 8 sold at half the speed of Windows 7 over the same time period, Windows 8 sales are trailing off while Windows 7 sales continue to grow   (networkworld.com) divider line 218
    More: Fail, Windows, web application  
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1891 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Dec 2013 at 9:16 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-13 10:12:52 AM

taurusowner: Interesting. The Asus Vivotab Smart weights 580g. The iPad 2 weighs between 601g and 613g depending on if you have 3G.

Tell me again which is heavy?


The IPad Air is 20% lighter than the Asus Vivotab,. has four times the screen resolution, has 50% longer battery life, and you don't need to add a heavy external keyboard to do anything useful with it.
 
2013-12-13 10:15:14 AM

The Larch: taurusowner: Interesting. The Asus Vivotab Smart weights 580g. The iPad 2 weighs between 601g and 613g depending on if you have 3G.

Tell me again which is heavy?

The IPad Air is 20% lighter than the Asus Vivotab,. has four times the screen resolution, has 50% longer battery life, and you don't need to add a heavy external keyboard to do anything useful with it.


And unfortunately it's also running iOS which makes all of those positive things meaningless. I DGAF if it's lighter and has a better battery if I'm using Playskool's "My First Tablet OS". If I can't run full MS Office 2010, full Adobe Acrobat, full Chrome browser, and full GIMP, I don't farking want it no matter how light it is.
 
2013-12-13 10:16:33 AM
Also, tell me how I can plug a USB Common Access Card reader into any version of iPad.
 
2013-12-13 10:17:25 AM
Metro is a bad UI, and while it's easy enough to circumvent it, it still gets in the way far too much.  In fact, it seems to be Microsoft's version of this:

www.8-bitcentral.com

In Microsoft's (and their fan boy's) vision, everyone is using these on their new XBox Ones.  Because not using this fabulous controller means you're afraid of change.
 
2013-12-13 10:19:43 AM

taurusowner: The Larch: taurusowner: Interesting. The Asus Vivotab Smart weights 580g. The iPad 2 weighs between 601g and 613g depending on if you have 3G.

Tell me again which is heavy?

The IPad Air is 20% lighter than the Asus Vivotab,. has four times the screen resolution, has 50% longer battery life, and you don't need to add a heavy external keyboard to do anything useful with it.

And unfortunately it's also running iOS which makes all of those positive things meaningless. I DGAF if it's lighter and has a better battery if I'm using Playskool's "My First Tablet OS". If I can't run full MS Office 2010, full Adobe Acrobat, full Chrome browser, and full GIMP, I don't farking want it no matter how light it is.


You're running Acrobat and GIMP on an Atom?  Man, that must be slow as shiat.
 
kab
2013-12-13 10:20:27 AM

doglover: 1. Nobody likes change.


People don't like change when there's no pressing need for it, and they don't like it when that change is for the sake of change, rather than a notable improvement.    Not only are W8's gui changes generally viewed as dumb for a desktop OS, W7 is also still fulfilling peoples uses quite capably, which is why the under the hood improvements are being largely ignored by people.
 
2013-12-13 10:20:51 AM

Dr. Whoof: Metro is a bad UI, and while it's easy enough to circumvent it, it still gets in the way far too much.  In fact, it seems to be Microsoft's version of this:

[www.8-bitcentral.com image 850x466]


You were never forced to buy a power glove.  Nor did they make a movie with Fred Savage to market it.
 
2013-12-13 10:21:32 AM
When I hear people complain that "the Start Button is gone" I have to chuckle. The "Start Button" is still there in Windows 8. But Microsoft, in its inscrutable wisdom, changed it from a visible, clickable button to an INvisible, clickable "hot-corner." When I show that to people the first words out of their mouth are invariably "that's stupid." And I have yet for anyone to explain how this is an "improvement."

Windows 8 is not a terrible OS (that distinction will be held by Windows ME for years to come). But MS totally screwed the pooch in 8's design and marketing.
 
2013-12-13 10:22:34 AM

HeartBurnKid: taurusowner: The Larch: taurusowner: Interesting. The Asus Vivotab Smart weights 580g. The iPad 2 weighs between 601g and 613g depending on if you have 3G.

Tell me again which is heavy?

The IPad Air is 20% lighter than the Asus Vivotab,. has four times the screen resolution, has 50% longer battery life, and you don't need to add a heavy external keyboard to do anything useful with it.

And unfortunately it's also running iOS which makes all of those positive things meaningless. I DGAF if it's lighter and has a better battery if I'm using Playskool's "My First Tablet OS". If I can't run full MS Office 2010, full Adobe Acrobat, full Chrome browser, and full GIMP, I don't farking want it no matter how light it is.

You're running Acrobat and GIMP on an Atom?  Man, that must be slow as shiat.


Not as fast as a desktop, but slow is still better than impossible.
 
2013-12-13 10:23:56 AM
Win9 is gonna rock
 
2013-12-13 10:26:18 AM
doglover:
1. Nobody likes NEEDLESS change.

Agreed on all your points, however I feel the added word is necessary.

That's why people get upset when Facebook changes, or YouTube changes to put titles UNDER the videos (for some f'n reason). And we get the same round of "hilarious" jokes about how no one is forcing you to use the product. That's not the point. Change for the sake of change is the driving force in tech right now. Look at the absolute convoluted clustermess of Gmail. They change things every week. And all it does is shuffle things around. "oh now all your 'apps' are under this button of dots!!'. Great, so the menu on the top of the screen was cumbersome before?

"oh now instead of a desktop, you get all these tiles"
"can I still use multi-wind-"
"heh heh, no, no you cannot"

Change for the sake of change. Needless. It all boils down to that.
 
2013-12-13 10:29:07 AM
The only negative thing about Windows 8/8.1 that is really displeasing is the Metro interface, unless you have a touchscreen. There are still compatibility issues and bugs with some applications, but they can be fixed over time. Windows 8/8.1 is actually very efficient in the way it runs and it can run smooth on machines with lower memory, though that does not mean that you can take a P4 machine and expect to run efficient.

I still prefer 7, but eventually when the compatibility bugs are worked out, then I will think about upgrading (while also disabling Metro). Right now, my personal computers that I mainly use are running Crunchbang and my laptop runs OS X SL
 
2013-12-13 10:30:47 AM

baconbeard: I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.


This is the opposite of true. They assumed their customers are morons who can't handle more than one application at a time with big, giant colored buttons, when their customers really prefer using the desktop.
 
2013-12-13 10:32:27 AM

Mugato: baconbeard: I've warmed up to Windows 8. I think it's pretty damn good.

I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.

LOL, are you lording over us your elite hacker skilz at being able to navigate a Windows OS? Are you a wizard?


I am.
 
2013-12-13 10:34:08 AM
I thought shooting fish in a barrel was easy...
 
2013-12-13 10:37:33 AM
I upgraded to 8.1 last week. That was almost as wise a decision as when I told that crack whore to bring her friends with her too, plus that big, burly fella, he looks like a pleasant chap.
 
2013-12-13 10:41:48 AM

HeartBurnKid: skeevy420: I'm getting a kick out of all the Windows 8 hate seeing as I'm a user who literally quit Windows (for Linux) because I thought XP really sucked compared to Win2kPro.  A week ago I installed my first copy of Windows in YEARS and instantly thought Metro was a crappier Gnome3 with tiles.....if someone like myself (anti-Microsoft, pro-Linux) can manage and deal with 8 then anyone can.

To all the "I have to install something for my system to be usable" folks -- I don't care what OS/Processor/Tablet/PC/Phone/whatever you have -- Can you honestly say that Stock ANYTHING is perfect?  First thing I do on a Linux install?  Remove the apps I don't like and add in the ones I do.  A Windows Install?  Media Player Classic, archive manager (zip, rar 7z), pdf reader, etc.  Android Phone?  All I know is I restore a crap ton of apps with Titanium when I update my rom.

At the end of the day the real question is "Do I like or dislike a tiled interface?".  If the answer is no then you'll have to install Classic Shell or something like that.  Big farking deal.

/Anyone else get a good chuckle when ya hear the "Honestly, I wanna see you be free" in the Microsoft ads?

See, that's the thing: Nobody's saying you can't use Win 8 if you try hard enough.  That's just what the fanboys (yes, MS has fanboys now, I'm as shocked as you are) tell themselves to justify their smug sense of superiority.  People are just saying the interface is badly-designed shiat that makes everything more complicated, because it is.


This is why there are people who feel they need to come in to these threads and point out Win8 is hated by those who hate change. Because those who hate change project their inability to adapt into some belief about objective measures.

The truth is that the tiled start screen is actually faster to use than the old menu. For mice and keyboards, not just tablets. This is due to Fitt's Law, the same place all modern UI advancements have come. The same law Google uses in it's UIs. Google recently switched to tiled selection on it's web pages for apps too.

It's easy to memorize a few catch phrases to explain your dislike (it's good for tablets but not for mice and keyboards, every other OS sucks, etc.), but it's much harder to recognize when you are doing that only for psychological justification so you don't have to admit to yourself how hard a time you have with change.
 
2013-12-13 10:47:49 AM
Win 8.1 runs pretty good on a tablet. On a non-touch laptop, it isn't as good. We got a clearance lappy that would be much better served with Win 7. The lack of touchscreen is a serious liability for Win 8.
 
2013-12-13 10:48:58 AM

Slaves2Darkness: TuteTibiImperes: Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.

Know how I know you don't use 8? Because you say stupid shiat like the above. The farking charms crap, tiled desktop, and not a host of other shiat make me loathe and despise 8. If I wanted farking charms I'd would have bought a Mac.

I've tried, I've tried really hard to use 8, to make 8 a productive workstation, but I can't get used to it. I've been using 8 for almost a year now and I just can't get around the frustration of the changes. It is too many and there is too little benefit to them.


I've been using Windows 8 for the better part of a year, which is how I know its really not that big of a change.

To be fair, I never used Windows 7 on my home machine, I went straight from Vista to 8, but it was a great move, far more stable, faster, and better integration with my Windows Phone 8.

Yes, there's a full screen program launcher now. So what? It's not any better on the desktop than the start menu was, but it's not any worse. I don't think I've ever used the charms bar in desktop might mode, so that's no big deal.

As far as Metro.goes, I could avoid Metro apps entirely if I wanted. I like the Music app though, so I use that one.


I
 
2013-12-13 10:51:01 AM

Unobtanium: but is there a fairly simple way to arrange the "All Apps" Metro screen to my liking?


Not that I know of.  All I want for the All Apps menu to do is to separate the groups into individual columns and sort the columns in alphabetical order.  Can't find anything in that mess.  Otherwise, I don't find Windows 8 to be much different from Windows 7.  8.1 helps somewhat in switching from Metro apps to classic desktop apps.
 
2013-12-13 10:53:16 AM

slayer199: Of course this is anecdotal, but likely a typical experience.

A couple weeks ago I ordered a new gaming laptop (Gigabyte P27) for my son who is serving aboard the USS George Washington.  The laptop came with Windows 8 (not even 8.1).  I figured I'd poke around with Windows 8 and see how it was and save myself time from reloading the OS.  It was VERY slow in comparison to Windows 7.  I ended up reloading the OS to Windows 7.

The issue is not just a lack of familiarity that users may face, it responds slowly in comparison to Windows 7 (even on a very good gaming laptop).  As for me, I won't upgrade until Windows 9.


Windows 8 is faster than Windows 7 in pretty much every way imaginable.  Startup is faster.  Boot is faster, Win8 is more resource-efficient so EVERYTHING is faster.

The only reason it probably appeared slower to you was because the factory image was probably loaded with bloatware.  If you installed a 'fresh' Win8 install, just like you did with 7, it would be faster.  I guarantee it.
 
2013-12-13 10:54:44 AM

TuteTibiImperes: That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.


Or perhaps they should realize their new OS is shiat and go back to Windows 7.

/Windows 8 defenders perplex me - the market has spoken - they hate it
 
2013-12-13 10:54:49 AM
Building a rig and I'm open for change, but bang for your buck is win 8 going to make my system that much better?
 
2013-12-13 10:55:26 AM
I haven't had any problems adjusting to windows 8.  Then again I never really used the start button to begin with.
 
2013-12-13 10:56:36 AM

CmndrFish: Windows 8 is faster than Windows 7 in pretty much every way imaginable.  Startup is faster.  Boot is faster, Win8 is more resource-efficient so EVERYTHING is faster.

The only reason it probably appeared slower to you was because the factory image was probably loaded with bloatware.  If you installed a 'fresh' Win8 install, just like you did with 7, it would be faster.  I guarantee it.


So you are asking my mother to reinstall an OS?  Yea - that will work.

/and no - Win8 is not faster at EVERYTHING
//and its still buggier - the .1 service pack did nothing to improve that situation
 
2013-12-13 11:00:36 AM

ex0du5: It's easy to memorize a few catch phrases to explain your dislike


You mean like "You hate change?"
 
2013-12-13 11:05:54 AM

gingerjet: CmndrFish: Windows 8 is faster than Windows 7 in pretty much every way imaginable.  Startup is faster.  Boot is faster, Win8 is more resource-efficient so EVERYTHING is faster.

The only reason it probably appeared slower to you was because the factory image was probably loaded with bloatware.  If you installed a 'fresh' Win8 install, just like you did with 7, it would be faster.  I guarantee it.

So you are asking my mother to reinstall an OS?  Yea - that will work.

/and no - Win8 is not faster at EVERYTHING
//and its still buggier - the .1 service pack did nothing to improve that situation


I'm not asking you to do anything.  I'm saying your test was just as you said, purely anecdotal.  In reality, Windows 8 is much faster.

gingerjet: /Windows 8 defenders perplex me - the market has spoken - they hate it


The market also thinks Michael Buble's new album is just the greatest thing ever.  The market is inherently resistant to change and is, generally speaking, has easily manipulated opinions.
 
2013-12-13 11:09:05 AM

HeartBurnKid: Oh, and here's the perfect example of the kind of person who white knights Windows 8: a smug, self-satisfied asshole who somehow thinks that toughing his way through a badly-designed UI makes him superior to other people.


Welcome to the Linux world. :)
 
2013-12-13 11:09:36 AM

The Larch: I haven't read the thread, but are the normal posters here to tell how you can do everything you need to do in Windows 8 just by memorizing the names of all of your programs, learning a bunch of keyboard shortcuts, and then installing a bunch of extra software and spending a few hours configuring the system to not be like Windows 8 anymore?

Have those same people insulted our intelligence, and told us that we just don't want to "learn and grow" as a person because we use Windows 7?


well don't start doing anything different now.  Windows users don't like change.
 
2013-12-13 11:10:20 AM
T

gingerjet: TuteTibiImperes: That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

Or perhaps they should realize their new OS is shiat and go back to Windows 7.

/Windows 8 defenders perplex me - the market has spoken - they hate it

it
The market is often wrong, and is prone to being misled by bad information, especially when it comes to technology related stuff.

I'm not saying Windows 8 is perfect, but it is pretty good. If most people would try it out with an open mind for a few months and embrace the changes instead of complaining about them, I think they'd feel the same way.

Plus, like I mentioned, when you're working in desktop mode, its pretty much indistingsuishable from previous versions. Pin your common apps to the taskbar, and you only see Metro when you're searching or launching something you don't use often.
 
2013-12-13 11:12:52 AM
What I enjoy most about the linked article:

Windows 8 is a failure, because . . .

-it's only the *2nd* fastest selling operating system ever released
-in a years time, only 20% of gamers have migrated

Yup, that sure sounds like a failure to me.
 
2013-12-13 11:17:43 AM
Also interesting, and not pointed out in the article:

- in a single month, XP usage plummeted by nearly 20% (from 31% to 25% of the market)
 
2013-12-13 11:21:12 AM
I finally "upgraded" to Windows 8 because I essentially had to if I wanted to use the Hyper-V tools for Windows 2012.

While I figured out how to make it less annoying, it still has some very annoying traits.  For example, sometimes the application start screen won't go away by toggling the Windows key.  Usually it does; sometimes it doesn't.  What's up with that?

And the Metro stuff?  Yuck.  Why would you do that to a desktop computer?

It works.  The annoying stuff is livable.  A few months into upgrading, I still think that I like Windows 7 better, though.
 
2013-12-13 11:26:45 AM

HeartBurnKid: ex0du5: It's easy to memorize a few catch phrases to explain your dislike

You mean like "You hate change?"


Glad you've decided that was the only thing controvertible about my post. Of course, since my post was about scientific research and real world measurements trumping blanket statements pretending objectivity, your comment is like those who disbelieve evolution saying "your theory is a religion too".
 
2013-12-13 11:29:05 AM

MrSteve007: Also interesting, and not pointed out in the article:

- in a single month, XP usage plummeted by nearly 20% (from 31% to 25% of the market)


I wonder how much of that is from businesses ditching XP for 7 now that it is nearly out of support.
 
2013-12-13 11:32:52 AM
TuteTibiImperes:
Plus, like I mentioned, when you're working in desktop mode, its pretty much indistingsuishable from previous versions. Pin your common apps to the taskbar, and you only see Metro when you're searching or launching something you don't use often.

Which works right up until all the apps you use only come in Metro versions, or worse, HALF of them come in Metro versions (because the other half haven't switched) and you're toggling back and forth all the time.  Remember, Microsoft really wants future development to be on Metro only so it can be sold through their store - Visual Studio 11 Express will only let you generate Metro apps, for example.  (To be fair, the pay-for versions of VS will still let you generate desktop apps.  But who knows if that's a long term thing?)
 
2013-12-13 11:35:21 AM

MrSteve007: Also interesting, and not pointed out in the article:

- in a single month, XP usage plummeted by nearly 20% (from 31% to 25% of the market)


That and TFA are both part of the same phenomenon; corporate/enterprise customers are doing their last-minute XP upgrades and moving the last of their fleets to Win7. Since July we've replaced (or will replace in the next two months) nearly 25% of our PCs. We've been trying to get our departments to upgrade for years but with tight budgets it's been hard to do so. Now that the deadline is looming (as of March 31, XP PCs will no longer be allowed on our network) we're buying PCs by the truckload.
 
2013-12-13 11:36:29 AM

ex0du5: This is why there are people who feel they need to come in to these threads and point out Win8 is hated by those who hate change. Because those who hate change project their inability to adapt into some belief about objective measures.

The truth is that the tiled start screen is actually faster to use than the old menu. For mice and keyboards, not just tablets. This is due to Fitt's Law, the same place all modern UI advancements have come. The same law Google uses in it's UIs. Google recently switched to tiled selection on it's web pages for apps too.

It's easy to memorize a few catch phrases to explain your dislike (it's good for tablets but not for mice and keyboards, every other OS sucks, etc.), but it's much harder to recognize when you are doing that only for psychological justification so you don't have to admit to yourself how hard a time you have with change.


I'm not even 40 yet and I'm already a curmudgeon. (I plan to go yell at some clouds later today.) And Windows 8 is forcing me to take an honest look at why I dislike it so much. I don't even have it, my machine still runs 7 and I'm not going to upgrade until I get a new one. But yet, I still dislike it because I resent being forced to change when what I've been doing now has worked for me. I resent it far more than I probably should, but there you have it. I don't even care that it's better "under the hood" and that the tiles interface might actually be more efficient for me. I am angry at the notion of being forced to change from my current status quo, no matter how much better the new version might be.

And this is where MS screwed up. They live in their own little word of computer techs and engineers, and they forget that not everyone outside their bubble is like them. To them, the change is needed and better, and they think that it's so self-evident that they don't need to bother to explain it to us peons and can't understand why we don't see it as mana from heaven. They lost touch with human nature, because we like our patterns and we instantly resist when people tell us "What you've been doing all this time is wrong, so you need to change and do things my way." It doesn't matter that your way will improve our lives by 1000% we aren't doing it you smug, out of touch, elitist. You can have my start button when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

You can't just foist a huge change on consumers, you have to entice them with it. You have to make them want to change, and that means they needed to sell us on the concept of using this new system, whether it is tiles or the start menu. I'm much more likely to respond to someone telling me "want to see something cool?" and showing me the new interface, then being told "This is the new system, deal with it."

If sold the right way, I'll love Win8. It's a good system underneath, but I just can't get over the way it's being presented. It bothers me and gets my blood boiling. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to put an onion on my belt and annoy younger people with a long, rambling story.
 
2013-12-13 11:45:20 AM
*shrugs*

this is why you come out with windows 9

7 was basically a much better version of Vista... once you fix the old problems, then you slap a new number on it and move on

that's the issue with marketing and branding and why for example the Wii U is struggling so hard - despite being a new and much better console than the Wii was, the branding was awful and since day 0 has confused people... even the 3ds got around this by having a number in the name, now imagine it was called something like the "DS+" or something stupid like that? it would've struggled even more than it did at the beginning
 
2013-12-13 11:49:06 AM

soporific: And this is where MS screwed up. They live in their own little word of computer techs and engineers, and they forget that not everyone outside their bubble is like them. To them, the change is needed and better, and they think that it's so self-evident that they don't need to bother to explain it to us peons and can't understand why we don't see it as mana from heaven. They lost touch with human nature, because we like our patterns and we instantly resist when people tell us "What you've been doing all this time is wrong, so you need to change and do things my way." It doesn't matter that your way will improve our lives by 1000% we aren't doing it you smug, out of touch, elitist. You can have my start button when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.


Nobody is forcing you to do anything.  Don't like it? Don't buy it.  You don't HAVE to run windows 8 or even windows at all.  Microsoft is not beholden to you to continue using the same UI.
 
2013-12-13 11:49:21 AM

TuteTibiImperes: T
gingerjet: TuteTibiImperes: That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

Or perhaps they should realize their new OS is shiat and go back to Windows 7.

/Windows 8 defenders perplex me - the market has spoken - they hate it
it
The market is often wrong, and is prone to being misled by bad information, especially when it comes to technology related stuff.

I'm not saying Windows 8 is perfect, but it is pretty good. If most people would try it out with an open mind for a few months and embrace the changes instead of complaining about them, I think they'd feel the same way.

Plus, like I mentioned, when you're working in desktop mode, its pretty much indistingsuishable from previous versions. Pin your common apps to the taskbar, and you only see Metro when you're searching or launching something you don't use often.


Thing is, I don't have, "...a few months" to try out a new operating system.  I have deadlines to meet every single day.  Everyone in my office has deadlines, and taking a few months to learn something that you absolutely don't NEED to learn is a giant waste of time and productivity.
 
2013-12-13 11:51:45 AM

haknudsen: TuteTibiImperes: T
gingerjet: TuteTibiImperes: That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

Or perhaps they should realize their new OS is shiat and go back to Windows 7.

/Windows 8 defenders perplex me - the market has spoken - they hate it
it
The market is often wrong, and is prone to being misled by bad information, especially when it comes to technology related stuff.

I'm not saying Windows 8 is perfect, but it is pretty good. If most people would try it out with an open mind for a few months and embrace the changes instead of complaining about them, I think they'd feel the same way.

Plus, like I mentioned, when you're working in desktop mode, its pretty much indistingsuishable from previous versions. Pin your common apps to the taskbar, and you only see Metro when you're searching or launching something you don't use often.

Thing is, I don't have, "...a few months" to try out a new operating system.  I have deadlines to meet every single day.  Everyone in my office has deadlines, and taking a few months to learn something that you absolutely don't NEED to learn is a giant waste of time and productivity.


ok. thats funny.
 
2013-12-13 11:52:23 AM
i love windows 8.1

you people sure do enjoy sluggish warmed over doo doo for some reason.

i used to feel like this with windows 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTB1ipHGLCQ

but now i feel like this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW1QSf-H000
 
2013-12-13 11:55:22 AM

NewWorldDan: Unobtanium: but is there a fairly simple way to arrange the "All Apps" Metro screen to my liking?

Not that I know of.  All I want for the All Apps menu to do is to separate the groups into individual columns and sort the columns in alphabetical order.  Can't find anything in that mess.  Otherwise, I don't find Windows 8 to be much different from Windows 7.  8.1 helps somewhat in switching from Metro apps to classic desktop apps.


Thanks. Maybe there's a registry hack or hacks, but it may be more complex than that. You would think that "Right Click > Customize" would let you do that, but no, that makes too much sense. MS' usage of "customize" must be some new usage with which I was previously unfamiliar.
 
2013-12-13 11:59:09 AM
IIRC a few years ago people were posting that Windows XP sales were exceeding Windows 7 adoption when it first came out.

IIRC a few years ago people were posting that Windows XP sales were exceeding Windows Vista adoption when it first came out.

IIRC a few years ago people were posting that Windows 2000 sales were exceeding Windows XP adoption when it first came out.

I remember people bashing Windows XP based on the "Fisher-Price" interface.
I remember people bashing Windows Vista based on FUD spread by less than credible pundits even before it was released  (and most of the bashing after its release had nothing to do with the FUD, but was a carry over from that impression).

I don't remember much bashing of Windows 7, but that was probably because it seemed more like an incremental change from Vista's interface;  with the benefit of a few more years of exposure and tweaking.   But I bet I can find some if I look for it.

I remember people freaking out when MS went from DOS to Windows,  from Windows to promoting OS/2,  from dropping OS/2 and having consumer/business Windows 9x/NT versions, to Windows 2000 and dropping the Windows 9x base, and every major version since (including Phone, Tablet and experimental releases).

Some of those releases legitimately deserved bashing.  What gets me in these threads are the people who act like the release of Windows 8 is a personal insult with no redeeming qualities whatsoever; when in reality its an OS based on the same practice of taking the previous version and trying to improve on it in ways that keep pace with (or try to get a jump on) the rest of the personal computing industry.

In my mind, the people who have nothing at all good to say about this version of Windows are just as much shills as the people who claim its all pie in the sky.

My 2 bitcoins on the subject:
Dual boot Windows 7 and Windows 8 on different drives
Windows 7 crashed and crapped out on me,  while I'm copying data off and trying to find my last image to restore from, I decided to give Windows 8 more of a try.

After installing Classic Shell and making a few changes to make it more like the same changes I had to initially do to be comfortable with the Windows 7 desktop; I have a workable enough computer to at least post this reply to Fark.

The annoyances in Windows 8 are to me at the same level as the annoyances in any other OS I've ever tried.  With the major difference being that Metro as an annoyance was more in your face than we've seen in a while (remember the first generation of User Account Control?).

One Dislike so far:  Had to copy the correct version of mfc100.dll to the folder that I lauch Cathy.exe from, my current drive cataloging program of choice.   But got it working.

One Like so far:  The new copy functionality seems to have finally caught up with (if not in a couple of ways exceeded) Teracopy.

Those who bash this as the "worst" MS operating system ever are fortunate to not have had to deal with the real showstoppers in DOS 4.0, DOS 6.0 with Doublespace, and Windows Millenium.
 
2013-12-13 11:59:47 AM

choder: MrSteve007: Also interesting, and not pointed out in the article:

- in a single month, XP usage plummeted by nearly 20% (from 31% to 25% of the market)

I wonder how much of that is from businesses ditching XP for 7 now that it is nearly out of support.


A quick and dirty graph, using the last 6 months of net applications data on XP, WIn 7 and Win 8 (combined 8 & 8.1)
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net

A much more accurate headline should be:
"Windows 7 usage surges past 50% for the first time, users abandon 12-year old XP in mass, Windows 8 continues steady growth"

But I guess saying Windows 8 is a complete failure is a much more click-bait worthy headline.
 
2013-12-13 12:02:04 PM

taurusowner: doglover: bsharitt: I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.

Why would you run a windows tablet when android and IOS exist?

Are you farking kidding me? How about full Microsoft Office on a tablet? How about not searching for apps to run various obscure files extensions, or even common ones. Regular old VLC on a tablet is awesome. How about full support for all USB devices? I even run a CAC reader off my tablet to log onto military sites. Good luck doing that on Android. Full Windows Homegroup support for ease of transferring files like big movies and such. Full Chrome on a tablet, not the gimped version available on Android.

The list goes on. Why WOULDN'T you want all the benefits of a true PC computer in tablet form?


Because you'll find out (the hard way) that you'll need a new tablet once the HD capacity is at maximum and you can't replace it.
 
2013-12-13 12:04:36 PM
Doah, I should have put "en masse" into that headline.
 
2013-12-13 12:04:53 PM
does anyone know the process of downgrading (the 8 pro upgrade) back to OEM xp? I want to remove it from an unused comp and install on my mother's xp machine. i suppose i just reinstall xp and that frees up the 8 license, but idk. That or buy 7 (prob better idea for her) but i already have extra 8
 
2013-12-13 12:09:55 PM

Egoy3k: soporific: And this is where MS screwed up. They live in their own little word of computer techs and engineers, and they forget that not everyone outside their bubble is like them. To them, the change is needed and better, and they think that it's so self-evident that they don't need to bother to explain it to us peons and can't understand why we don't see it as mana from heaven. They lost touch with human nature, because we like our patterns and we instantly resist when people tell us "What you've been doing all this time is wrong, so you need to change and do things my way." It doesn't matter that your way will improve our lives by 1000% we aren't doing it you smug, out of touch, elitist. You can have my start button when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything.  Don't like it? Don't buy it.  You don't HAVE to run windows 8 or even windows at all.  Microsoft is not beholden to you to continue using the same UI.



Way to miss the point. It is that attitude that I was talking about, and that's where MS is making a big mistake. (It's the same one they made with the debut of the Xbone. "Don't want an always-on internet connection? Get a 360.") 'Don't like it, don't buy it' is a terrible marketing strategy, because a lot of us are taking that advice and NOT upgrading. That's why sales of Win8 are not nearly as robust as Win7.

The point I was making is that if they want people to upgrade, they need to actually convince us that their product, the product they want us to spend money on, is actually good. Why should I upgrade? Why should I get Win8? Why is it better than Win7? Unfortunately, they failed to really sell us on why it's a better experience, and instead all we get from them is "You'll use tiles and you'll LIKE IT!"

You think I should upgrade? Tell me the benefits? Why is this change good? How will it be better than what's been working for me now?

Because right now I'm perfectly content to not spend money on a new operating system. And I'm not the only one. If MS wants us to buy into Win8, we'll need a better reason than to be condescended to. They changed their tune for the Xbone and it's doing fine now. Perhaps they should follow the same route with Win8.
 
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