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(Network World)   Not only has Windows 8 sold at half the speed of Windows 7 over the same time period, Windows 8 sales are trailing off while Windows 7 sales continue to grow   (networkworld.com) divider line 218
    More: Fail, Windows, web application  
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1892 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Dec 2013 at 9:16 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-13 05:37:18 AM  
Yep, I am still snapping up cheapo Win 7 discs
 
2013-12-13 06:18:32 AM  
And anyone who didn't waste their time learning how to forget people are people in a post-grad marketing course could tell Balmer WHY Windows 8 is failing.

1. Nobody likes change.
That's why cars have had roughly the same dashboard for nearly a century. The great Gatsby could drive a Lexus no problem. Meanwhile, what with all the power steering and antilock breaks and stuff, you could really have a fly by wire car with a cockpit in the rear of the vehicle using a video game controller and cameras in place of mirrors and it would still work just fine, maybe even better. But you'll never see that, outside of concept cars anyway, because laws were passed to make everything stay the same as long as possible.

2. One size fits all is really one size fits none.
You don't want to drive screws with a hammer, even if the claw fits in the groove. A leatherman can do many things and fits on your belt, but no one chooses the leatherman over the dedicated tool when they have access to the whole toolbox. Making your toolbox INTO a giant leatherman gets everything exactly wrong. Their tablet OS should NOT have been integrated into their PC OS on the user end. Under the hood? GO CRAZY with compatibility. Make every program work on tablets and the PC by using the same OS. Fine. But keep it secret with two different GUI philosophies.

3. People are combative.
Doctors, teachers, salesmen, and police understand this. If you say jump, the average person will sit down and stay glued to their chair just be belligerent; even if what you're telling them to do is something they'd want to do if they were given a chance and no commands. By forcing you to give up the start button, they've killed the OS even if 99% would, if given the chance, turn the start button off themselves and never miss it. It's like how dysfunctional families might have huge fights with each other, but will join together into a seamless whole against any outsiders.

4. People buy the sizzle, not the sausage.
It doesn't matter what kind of product you've got if you're projecting a horrible image. Windows 8 was just marketed wrong. It might be really good under the hood. Using it might be wonderful for me. I'll never know because they touted it in exactly the wrong ways. I am not alone, as these stats are showing. Many, many people are not digging in to try it. Just like Vista. Apple, meanwhile, just has to change the color of their damned product and it's lines around the block. And their products have always sucked as bad or worse than 8 in user interface. The difference? Image. Apple tells you your free so well you forget they are damned dirty liars right up until AFTER you buy their crap on a two years contract again.


tl;dr METRO
 
2013-12-13 07:28:03 AM  
I just can't get it through my head to use an OS that reminds me so much of the Leapfrog learning tablet my kids had about 6 or 7 years ago.

i44.tinypic.com
 
2013-12-13 07:42:49 AM  
1 more year and I can collect on that bet
 
2013-12-13 07:58:20 AM  
doglover:

1. Nobody likes change.


That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

MacOS or Linux are both much larger changes than moving from 7 to 8, and most people aren't going to be willing to pay the price for Apple hardware to run OSX anyway.

Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.
 
2013-12-13 08:00:22 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: doglover:

1. Nobody likes change.


That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

MacOS or Linux are both much larger changes than moving from 7 to 8, and most people aren't going to be willing to pay the price for Apple hardware to run OSX anyway.

Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.


this is a crock of shiat.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-13 09:00:59 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: doglover:

1. Nobody likes change.


That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

MacOS or Linux are both much larger changes than moving from 7 to 8, and most people aren't going to be willing to pay the price for Apple hardware to run OSX anyway.

Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.


Yes, I was using a start menu replacement program with 8.0 and 8.1 broke it.  By that time I was used to 8 enough to not need it anymore.

The only problem I have is that you need to take some time to organize your start screen.
 
2013-12-13 09:06:48 AM  
Of course this is anecdotal, but likely a typical experience.

A couple weeks ago I ordered a new gaming laptop (Gigabyte P27) for my son who is serving aboard the USS George Washington.  The laptop came with Windows 8 (not even 8.1).  I figured I'd poke around with Windows 8 and see how it was and save myself time from reloading the OS.  It was VERY slow in comparison to Windows 7.  I ended up reloading the OS to Windows 7.

The issue is not just a lack of familiarity that users may face, it responds slowly in comparison to Windows 7 (even on a very good gaming laptop).  As for me, I won't upgrade until Windows 9.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-13 09:10:07 AM  

slayer199: Of course this is anecdotal, but likely a typical experience.

A couple weeks ago I ordered a new gaming laptop (Gigabyte P27) for my son who is serving aboard the USS George Washington.  The laptop came with Windows 8 (not even 8.1).  I figured I'd poke around with Windows 8 and see how it was and save myself time from reloading the OS.  It was VERY slow in comparison to Windows 7.  I ended up reloading the OS to Windows 7.


It is faster for me.  On three machines.  It sounds like you have some sort of driver problem.

I will say that you should stay away from 8 if you use WMC.
 
2013-12-13 09:20:01 AM  
I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.
 
2013-12-13 09:22:02 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.


Know how I know you don't use 8? Because you say stupid shiat like the above. The farking charms crap, tiled desktop, and not a host of other shiat make me loathe and despise 8. If I wanted farking charms I'd would have bought a Mac.

I've tried, I've tried really hard to use 8, to make 8 a productive workstation, but I can't get used to it. I've been using 8 for almost a year now and I just can't get around the frustration of the changes. It is too many and there is too little benefit to them.
 
2013-12-13 09:23:14 AM  

bsharitt: I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.


Why would you run a windows tablet when android and IOS exist?
 
2013-12-13 09:24:49 AM  

doglover: bsharitt: I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.

Why would you run a windows tablet when android and IOS exist?


Civ 5 on my tablet is the greatest thing ever. Other than that, it still doesn't what all there rest of them do.
 
2013-12-13 09:26:43 AM  
8 isn't just Metro. There is a lot of underlying changes that make thing incompatible and developers are slow to adopt. 8.1 also made it bloaty.. The skydrive integration was annoying at best and you had to use backasswards methods to turn it off and remove it. I used 8 since release and stuck with 8.1 until last week... I finally just went back to 7... Was so sick of running into an issue with an app of game just to find out "that's an 8 problem"
 
2013-12-13 09:26:56 AM  
Microsoft can only release 1 decent product every 5-7 years and Windows 7 is it.  All the rest suck.
 
2013-12-13 09:27:55 AM  
Gave Win 8 a shot on a desktop. Within a month I had installed apps to make it act like Win 7. 8 might be fine for tablets, but it don't work for me on a desktop.
 
2013-12-13 09:28:20 AM  
So.... Windows 9 anyone?
 
2013-12-13 09:28:22 AM  
I've warmed up to Windows 8. I think it's pretty damn good.

I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.
 
2013-12-13 09:31:02 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: TuteTibiImperes: Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.

Know how I know you don't use 8? Because you say stupid shiat like the above. The farking charms crap, tiled desktop, and not a host of other shiat make me loathe and despise 8. If I wanted farking charms I'd would have bought a Mac.

I've tried, I've tried really hard to use 8, to make 8 a productive workstation, but I can't get used to it. I've been using 8 for almost a year now and I just can't get around the frustration of the changes. It is too many and there is too little benefit to them.


I am about to rebuild my workstation and it's stories like these that make me hold off on OS upgrade. It seems like WIn 8 was for MS not the user, and like every bad OS version I am waiting for the good one that follows it to fix it.
 
2013-12-13 09:32:45 AM  
Heh. The start button issue is hilarious because I remember all the biatching when that thing was introduced with Windows 95... "what the fark, Micro$oft - I gotta hit 'Start' to shut it down?!?"

Heh, good times.
 
2013-12-13 09:33:50 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: doglover:

1. Nobody likes change.


That's what is pretty much boils down to, plus a lot of people thinking that Windows 8 is all metro all the time due to all of the people biatching about it.

MS halted retail sales of Windows 7 in October, and the cutoff for OEMs to ship with it is set for the end of next year, though I think MS would be smart to move that date up.

MacOS or Linux are both much larger changes than moving from 7 to 8, and most people aren't going to be willing to pay the price for Apple hardware to run OSX anyway.

Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.


Speaking as somebody who's dual-booted Windows and Ubuntu... bull.  I spent a good couple of years all but Windows free in the Vista days, so I'm clearly not afraid of change, as long as the change is worthwhile.  Windows 8 is not worthwhile. And as long as you don't have a big software investment in Windows (which I don't; besides games, I mostly use FOSS on my home system), frankly, the transition to a modern Linux distro is easier than the transition to 8.

I think we're going to see something similar to what we saw in the Vista days; companies will sell 8, but try to upsell people to Pro since Pro comes with downgrade rights.  Either that, or they'll start bundling one of the Start Menu replacement apps with their systems (hell, Lenovo already is).
 
2013-12-13 09:34:45 AM  
I'm waiting for Win9... I have no compelling reasons to upgrade to Win8. Currently running Win7.
 
2013-12-13 09:35:21 AM  
Forget all that other crap it's because they didn't give people the choice on how the interface works.  No the start screen is not a replacement for the start menu.  Not everyone suddenly switched to tablets.

Windows 8 should have been called "Windows Touch®©™" and only come with tablets.

/The upgrades to compatibility should have been a free download for Win7.
 
2013-12-13 09:36:38 AM  
8 really looks like it's more suited to a tablet than a desk or laptop. 7 does everything I need.
 
2013-12-13 09:36:55 AM  

baconbeard: I've warmed up to Windows 8. I think it's pretty damn good.

I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.


Oh, and here's the perfect example of the kind of person who white knights Windows 8: a smug, self-satisfied asshole who somehow thinks that toughing his way through a badly-designed UI makes him superior to other people.
 
2013-12-13 09:40:36 AM  
I haven't read the thread, but are the normal posters here to tell how you can do everything you need to do in Windows 8 just by memorizing the names of all of your programs, learning a bunch of keyboard shortcuts, and then installing a bunch of extra software and spending a few hours configuring the system to not be like Windows 8 anymore?

Have those same people insulted our intelligence, and told us that we just don't want to "learn and grow" as a person because we use Windows 7?
 
2013-12-13 09:40:47 AM  
Then, of course, there is the rumor that the start menu may be returning.

Frankly, metro is on of the reasons my workplace won't allow Windos 8 installations on their 16,000 workstations. Productivity would hit the shiatter, they would need to spend an absurd amount of money on retraining, and the help desk would be flooded with calls.

That, and we work with a version of EPIC that only supports IE 8.
 
2013-12-13 09:41:12 AM  
It's almost as if everyone has a windows computer and doesn't really need to upgrade.
 
2013-12-13 09:44:21 AM  
I'm getting a kick out of all the Windows 8 hate seeing as I'm a user who literally quit Windows (for Linux) because I thought XP really sucked compared to Win2kPro.  A week ago I installed my first copy of Windows in YEARS and instantly thought Metro was a crappier Gnome3 with tiles.....if someone like myself (anti-Microsoft, pro-Linux) can manage and deal with 8 then anyone can.

To all the "I have to install something for my system to be usable" folks -- I don't care what OS/Processor/Tablet/PC/Phone/whatever you have -- Can you honestly say that Stock ANYTHING is perfect?  First thing I do on a Linux install?  Remove the apps I don't like and add in the ones I do.  A Windows Install?  Media Player Classic, archive manager (zip, rar 7z), pdf reader, etc.  Android Phone?  All I know is I restore a crap ton of apps with Titanium when I update my rom.

At the end of the day the real question is "Do I like or dislike a tiled interface?".  If the answer is no then you'll have to install Classic Shell or something like that.  Big farking deal.

/Anyone else get a good chuckle when ya hear the "Honestly, I wanna see you be free" in the Microsoft ads?
 
2013-12-13 09:44:37 AM  
Windows 8 is fine.

It's just METRO that is the dumbest, most counter-intuitive UI in computing history.  Punch cards are easier to use and get in your way less stupidly.

Since various mods gave Win8 a better UI within like minutes of release, the fact that the OS is failing because of the UI that Microsoft intentionally selected just makes this a terrible marketing failure.  You don't take your completely legit, improved new product and show it to people wrapped in a used diaper full of AIDS, man, that's the opposite of good advertising.

// Above is for an actual computer with input peripherals and so on.  If you have a straight tablet I'm sure Metro's no more pants-on-head than any other tablet-OS interface, they're all pretty shiat at this point.
 
2013-12-13 09:45:26 AM  

doglover: bsharitt: I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.

Why would you run a windows tablet when android and IOS exist?


Are you farking kidding me? How about full Microsoft Office on a tablet? How about not searching for apps to run various obscure files extensions, or even common ones. Regular old VLC on a tablet is awesome. How about full support for all USB devices? I even run a CAC reader off my tablet to log onto military sites. Good luck doing that on Android. Full Windows Homegroup support for ease of transferring files like big movies and such. Full Chrome on a tablet, not the gimped version available on Android.

The list goes on. Why WOULDN'T you want all the benefits of a true PC computer in tablet form? I owned a Transformer running android before my Vivotab, and it was always a pain wanting to do something and thinking "I wish I had my laptop". Can't run iTunes. Can't run full Office. Can't play a movie because the media player doesn't support it. Can't log onto AKO or iPerms for Army stuff. Etc. Having full Windows in a tablet is amazing.
 
2013-12-13 09:46:32 AM  
Time for Microsoft to make another condescending statement about how the common folk just don't understand how wonderful the features of *insert Microsoft product* are. Once people start using *insert Microsoft product*, they will realize how great it really is.
 
2013-12-13 09:48:27 AM  

baconbeard: I've warmed up to Windows 8. I think it's pretty damn good.

I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.


LOL, are you lording over us your elite hacker skilz at being able to navigate a Windows OS? Are you a wizard?
 
2013-12-13 09:48:27 AM  

skeevy420: I'm getting a kick out of all the Windows 8 hate seeing as I'm a user who literally quit Windows (for Linux) because I thought XP really sucked compared to Win2kPro.  A week ago I installed my first copy of Windows in YEARS and instantly thought Metro was a crappier Gnome3 with tiles.....if someone like myself (anti-Microsoft, pro-Linux) can manage and deal with 8 then anyone can.

To all the "I have to install something for my system to be usable" folks -- I don't care what OS/Processor/Tablet/PC/Phone/whatever you have -- Can you honestly say that Stock ANYTHING is perfect?  First thing I do on a Linux install?  Remove the apps I don't like and add in the ones I do.  A Windows Install?  Media Player Classic, archive manager (zip, rar 7z), pdf reader, etc.  Android Phone?  All I know is I restore a crap ton of apps with Titanium when I update my rom.

At the end of the day the real question is "Do I like or dislike a tiled interface?".  If the answer is no then you'll have to install Classic Shell or something like that.  Big farking deal.

/Anyone else get a good chuckle when ya hear the "Honestly, I wanna see you be free" in the Microsoft ads?


See, that's the thing: Nobody's saying you can't use Win 8 if you try hard enough.  That's just what the fanboys (yes, MS has fanboys now, I'm as shocked as you are) tell themselves to justify their smug sense of superiority.  People are just saying the interface is badly-designed shiat that makes everything more complicated, because it is.
 
2013-12-13 09:51:21 AM  

doglover: Apple, meanwhile, just has to change the color of their damned product and it's lines around the block. And their products have always sucked as bad or worse than 8 in user interface.


Agree when it comes to iPhone, I much prefer my Android interface, but I vastly prefer the OS X interface to Windows. But you do have to get used to it because it is different.

Otherwise, totally agree with your post.
 
2013-12-13 09:51:52 AM  

baconbeard: I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.


Dat troll tho.

How about asking smart tech-savvy people about Windows 2012 and the shiat house that is in a Datacenter environment.
 
2013-12-13 09:53:14 AM  
I will say that the only thing I don't like about Windows 8 is that I can't run Internet Explorer 7 or 8. Sounds odd, I know. But a lot of military and government websites were coded by monkeys and won't run on anything other than IE 7 or 8. Not Chrome, not Firefox, not IE 9 or above. On Win7 I kept IE 8 around just for certain government sites. Can't do that in Windows 8.

But other than that, Windows 8 is fantastic. And I think the live tiles on the Start Screen are awesome. I'm very used to using widgets on Android phones that give me certain information at a glace. Weather, News, Time in different time zones, prices of gold and silver, pending Google Tasks and calender events, etc. I like looking at my phone and having widgets display all those things in real time. I tried using the desktop gadgets in Windows 7 to do the same thing but that was beyond hokey. Win8 Start Menu lets me do all that and access common programs just like phone shortcuts. But I can still do everything I could on 7 like running full versions on programs, Steam, etc. Best of both worlds.
 
2013-12-13 09:54:13 AM  

baconbeard: I've warmed up to Windows 8. I think it's pretty damn good.

I think the mistake that Microsoft made is because they themselves are surrounded by smart, tech-savvy people, they assumed their customers were also smart, tech-savvy people, instead of the drooling moronic luddites that they so obviously are.


Hey look, a dim-witted luddite warning of luddites.  I'm sorry you never did anything even remotely advanced with your computer, but windows 8 does a poor job for anyone seeking fine grain control of their system.
 
2013-12-13 09:55:08 AM  

vpb: slayer199: Of course this is anecdotal, but likely a typical experience.

A couple weeks ago I ordered a new gaming laptop (Gigabyte P27) for my son who is serving aboard the USS George Washington.  The laptop came with Windows 8 (not even 8.1).  I figured I'd poke around with Windows 8 and see how it was and save myself time from reloading the OS.  It was VERY slow in comparison to Windows 7.  I ended up reloading the OS to Windows 7.

It is faster for me.  On three machines.  It sounds like you have some sort of driver problem.


I've only tested across two machines (a high-end desktop gaming rig and a 7-year-old Dell office laptop) but in both cases Win8 ran slightly faster than Win7.  Not sufficient reason alone to make the move but was noticeable enough to mildly surprise me.

There is some good stuff under the hood but the Metro interface hides most of it under a crusty layer of annoyances.  Win9 will ease up on the bad, keep (and improve upon) the good, and will be more beloved that 7/XP ever were, just wait and see.
 
2013-12-13 09:55:56 AM  
The most amazing thing about Windows 8, in my mind, is how absolutely, insanely terrible Metro is under the hood.  I'm not talking about the API or technical underpinnings, which are fine.  I'm talking about Metro as a long term product strategy for Microsoft.

Suppose you've written a Metro app for Windows 8, and now you want to recompile it for Windows RT.  Can you do that?  No, you have to rewrite big chunks of it for Windows RT.

OK, now you have apps for Windows 8 and Windows RT.  Can you recompile it for Windows Phone 8?   Again, no... you have to rewrite big chunks of it again for Windows Phone.

Can you recompile the same application for the XBox one?   No, not yet. Microsoft has hinted at a possible migration path, but don't hold your breath.

Can you migrate your application  "to the cloud" and run in like an Office365 application?   No, not even close.  It's not even on the Microsoft radar.  Microsoft used to have a product called Silverlight that was part of the roadmap to allow developers to do something like that, but Microsoft killed it, and they haven't even hinted at a replacement.

The Windows 8 Metro subsystem is absolutely terrible technology, not because the UI is objectively terrible (it is), or because the underlying technology is bad (it isn't), but because there's no possible roadmap to the future that doesn't absolutely destroy entire divisions at Microsoft.
 
2013-12-13 09:57:01 AM  
The only reason I'm still on Windows is for games. If Valve manages to actually get studios producing for Linux with their SteamBox (unlikely I know, but I have hope damnit!) then Windows 7 will be the last Windows version for me.
 
2013-12-13 10:01:29 AM  

taurusowner: doglover: bsharitt: I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.

Why would you run a windows tablet when android and IOS exist?

Are you farking kidding me? How about full Microsoft Office on a tablet? How about not searching for apps to run various obscure files extensions, or even common ones. Regular old VLC on a tablet is awesome. How about full support for all USB devices? I even run a CAC reader off my tablet to log onto military sites. Good luck doing that on Android. Full Windows Homegroup support for ease of transferring files like big movies and such. Full Chrome on a tablet, not the gimped version available on Android.

The list goes on. Why WOULDN'T you want all the benefits of a true PC computer in tablet form? I owned a Transformer running android before my Vivotab, and it was always a pain wanting to do something and thinking "I wish I had my laptop". Can't run iTunes. Can't run full Office. Can't play a movie because the media player doesn't support it. Can't log onto AKO or iPerms for Army stuff. Etc. Having full Windows in a tablet is amazing.


That's a heavy tablet.
 
2013-12-13 10:01:37 AM  
Windows 8 sucks, and if you defend it you have Bill Gates juice dribbling down your chin.  Wipe it off.
 
2013-12-13 10:04:42 AM  

doglover: taurusowner: doglover: bsharitt: I don't know, I think Windows 7 would be pretty crappy on my tablet. I'll stick with Windows 8.

Why would you run a windows tablet when android and IOS exist?

Are you farking kidding me? How about full Microsoft Office on a tablet? How about not searching for apps to run various obscure files extensions, or even common ones. Regular old VLC on a tablet is awesome. How about full support for all USB devices? I even run a CAC reader off my tablet to log onto military sites. Good luck doing that on Android. Full Windows Homegroup support for ease of transferring files like big movies and such. Full Chrome on a tablet, not the gimped version available on Android.

The list goes on. Why WOULDN'T you want all the benefits of a true PC computer in tablet form? I owned a Transformer running android before my Vivotab, and it was always a pain wanting to do something and thinking "I wish I had my laptop". Can't run iTunes. Can't run full Office. Can't play a movie because the media player doesn't support it. Can't log onto AKO or iPerms for Army stuff. Etc. Having full Windows in a tablet is amazing.

That's a heavy tablet.


Interesting. The Asus Vivotab Smart weights 580g. The iPad 2 weighs between 601g and 613g depending on if you have 3G.

Tell me again which is heavy?
 
2013-12-13 10:05:59 AM  
Haven't used win8 yet, but can you save docs to the desktop or create your own folders?  I hate using the my documents aspect of win7 and xp since there seems to be five different my documents folders.   I create my own folders on the c drive and go from there.

My desktop is only folders and files,  if I need to launch a program I use the quick start menu.  Will I hate win8 ?

I am afraid it will make all file organization decisions for me.
 
2013-12-13 10:08:08 AM  

HeartBurnKid: See, that's the thing: Nobody's saying you can't use Win 8 if you try hard enough.  That's just what the fanboys (yes, MS has fanboys now, I'm as shocked as you are) tell themselves to justify their smug sense of superiority.  People are just saying the interface is badly-designed shiat that makes everything more complicated, because it is.


I have the same feeling about Linux+Gnome3/Unity and Win8+Metro -- both are crappy UI's for me. It isn't hard to "fix" the UI situation for either. For that matter, I think Windows 7 has a crappy interface that makes it hard to do anything productive....last Windows 7 box I worked on seemed like it took forever to navigate the network settings to find the settings that I needed to tweak.

Personally, I think MS needs to get out of the PC Desktop OS Market. Maybe Win is good for servers (I don't see how, no ZFS), maybe Win is for enterprise customers still using dos apps...whatever the case may be, it seems that people only use MS/Win because of proprietary MS apps (like Office), gaming, Win Only Apps, or no Linux/Mac/Solaris/BSD alternative for the previous issues (or they don't want to learn Linux, dosbox, etc). IF Microsoft were smart they'd make a proprietary version of Wine; possibly releasing their own Linux Distro and have that be Windows 9. I'd pay for a MS Wine if it actually worked. Linux with a Microsoft backed Windows environment would be the best of both worlds.
 
2013-12-13 10:08:16 AM  

Hyjamon: but can you save docs to the desktop or create your own folders?


Yes. Absolutely. The Desktop of Windows 8 behaves like Windows 7 in absolutely every way. Icons, folders, My Computer, Etc. The works. All the same. Press the Start button and you get a full screen of shortcuts and apps instead of a list on the left side of the screen. That's basically the only difference.
 
2013-12-13 10:09:58 AM  
hmmm, after setting 8.1 to skip the start screen and installing a start menu program I can barely tell the difference between 8 and 7.
 
2013-12-13 10:11:23 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Windows 8 is fine.

It's just METRO that is the dumbest, most counter-intuitive UI in computing history.  Punch cards are easier to use and get in your way less stupidly.


Yeah, pretty much how I feel about Metro. I upgraded my laptop to Windows 8.1 and the attempt to FORCE me to use the "cloud" was, well, annoying.

I admit I haven't looked around much, because I installed Classic Shell, but is there a fairly simple way to arrange the "All Apps" Metro screen to my liking? I might actually be able to get along with Metro if I could drag, drop, and rename groups on the All Apps screen.

I would just have to get used to scrolling up and down to move sideways. Grrrrr.

/You could rearrange punch cards if the compiler didn't like the order of your instruction set for some reason (had that experience in my first FORTRAN class, and even the help desk squad and the professor all said, "huh.")
//Get off my chad-covered lawn
 
2013-12-13 10:11:32 AM  

Yakk: Slaves2Darkness: TuteTibiImperes: Take away the option to run 7 and most people will go with 8 by default, and realize that it's pretty much the same darn thing as 7 other than the start menu vs start screen from a usability perspective.

Know how I know you don't use 8? Because you say stupid shiat like the above. The farking charms crap, tiled desktop, and not a host of other shiat make me loathe and despise 8. If I wanted farking charms I'd would have bought a Mac.

I've tried, I've tried really hard to use 8, to make 8 a productive workstation, but I can't get used to it. I've been using 8 for almost a year now and I just can't get around the frustration of the changes. It is too many and there is too little benefit to them.

I am about to rebuild my workstation and it's stories like these that make me hold off on OS upgrade. It seems like WIn 8 was for MS not the user, and like every bad OS version I am waiting for the good one that follows it to fix it.


Win 8 is for tablets not desktops, it sucks donkey balls on desktops, but works well on tablets. It is a case of trying to make on UI work on all devices.
 
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