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(Idaho Statesman)   Church Deacon offers alibi in child fondling case: "Satan was in that storage room and took over my body"   ( idahostatesman.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Satans, Nampa, deacons, lascivious, kissing, Adventist Church  
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3760 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2013 at 9:35 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-12 11:13:48 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Waldo Pepper: Satan can tempt a christian but can not ever take over a Christian's body. A person can not have both Christ and satan taking over one's body.

now please before I get slammed by the non Christian farkers on this point.  I'm simply disagree with this evil person on their claim that he is a Christian.  A true Christian will own up to their sin and ask forgiveness first of the person/persons they sin against then from God.

"The devil made me do it" must never come out of a true Christian's mouth.

So, obviously he's demon possessed but all he has to do is say"Jesus Christ is Lord" and we'll know the demon left - because no demon can say that.

Religion: defying all logic for millennia.


It is logical within the framework of Christianity. Now, the framework may be insane, but that's another matter entirely.
 
2013-12-12 11:14:02 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Satan can tempt a christian but can not ever take over a Christian's body. A person can not have both Christ and satan taking over one's body.

now please before I get slammed by the non Christian farkers on this point.  I'm simply disagree with this evil person on their claim that he is a Christian.  A true Christian will own up to their sin and ask forgiveness first of the person/persons they sin against then from God.

"The devil made me do it" must never come out of a true Christian's mouth.


I'll agree 100%.   Now, one can argue at long length about the possibility of demonic possession and stuff but... really.. not farking likely.  You may as well claim you were hypnotized by the secret NSA Mole People.  If you accept the concept of free will, you don't get no free pass for this shiat.
 
2013-12-12 11:38:08 PM  
I think he was listening to that modern Devil music:

media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2013-12-13 12:03:06 AM  
Out of curiosity, what's the legal POV on Satanic possession?

I mean, have the US courts ruled that there is no such thing as Satan?

Similarly, if you kill someone because you heard the voice of Gerd telling you to, how does the court know you weren't telling the truth?

I've always found this interesting - that a country can supposedly be so "Christian" and yet not treat their religion as empirically true in the courtroom.
 
2013-12-13 12:04:09 AM  
This guy really does think the rest of the world is as stupid & gullible as his congregation, doesn't he?
 
2013-12-13 12:10:14 AM  

Captain James T. Smirk: bearded clamorer: The Devil went down to Nampa. He was lookin' for a girl to feel.
He was in a bind, 'cause he was way behind. He was willing to make a deal.
When he came across this deacon eatin' at a potluck the people had brought.
And the Devil jumped up on a storage bin and said "Boy, let me tell you what..."

I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a kiddie diddler too
and if you'd care to make a dare
I'll make a bet with you
Now you do a terrible diddle, father
but give the Devil his due
I bet a child of gold
except for the holes
'cause to think I'm better'n you


Glorious.
 
2013-12-13 12:22:47 AM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Out of curiosity, what's the legal POV on Satanic possession?

I mean, have the US courts ruled that there is no such thing as Satan?

Similarly, if you kill someone because you heard the voice of Gerd telling you to, how does the court know you weren't telling the truth?

I've always found this interesting - that a country can supposedly be so "Christian" and yet not treat their religion as empirically true in the courtroom.


I think that a person who is genuinely using "God/the Devil made me do it" as a defense is generally considered by the court to be mentally ill, and there will be an evaluation to determine if they're mentally competent to stand trial.  The Son of Sam famously claimed that he killed on the orders of his neighbor's dog, which he said was possessed by an evil spirit.
 
2013-12-13 12:30:16 AM  
Satan must have lived in my bedroom closet through out my high school years. I wish he would come back.
 
2013-12-13 01:38:04 AM  
Fark this namby-pamby 'Satan made me do it' bullshiat excuse defence.
Go for the ultimate and tell the court that you do not recognise procedure of being judged by mere mortals who are acting above God's judgement.
And if they proceed, they will answer to Him and suffer the consequences.


 www.roxybarandscreen.com

In God We Trust

/Jesus touched Me too.
 
2013-12-13 02:04:03 AM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I mean, have the US courts ruled that there is no such thing as Satan?



After Scalia and Senior discussed heaven and hell (he believes in them; she doesn't), the justice said in a stage whisper, "I even believe in the devil."
"You do?" Senior replied.
"Of course! Yeah, he's a real person. Hey, come on, that's standard Catholic doctrine! Every Catholic believes that," Scalia said.
Senior asked Scalia if he's seen evidence of Satan's work recently.
"You know, it is curious," Scalia answered. "In the Gospels, the devil is doing all sorts of things. He's making pigs run off cliffs, he's possessing people and whatnot. And that doesn't happen very much anymore. ... It's because he's smart."
 
2013-12-13 09:02:14 AM  
"it wasn't me" -Miroslav Satan, Hockey Player


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-12-13 09:33:33 AM  

Captain Horatio Mindblower: "Alibi" isn't the word you'e looking for there, subby. An "alibi" means claiming you were someplace else. There's a different term for the deacon's story; it's called a "confession".


Thinking "alibi" works. He claims he wasn't "there" mentally as his excuse.

(Merriam -Webster)
1al·i·bi   noun \ˈa-lə-ˌbī\
1 :  the plea of having been at the time of the commission of an act elsewhere than at the place of commission;  also :  the fact or state of having been elsewhere at the time

2:  an excuse usually intended to avert blame or punishment (as for failure or negligence)
 
2013-12-13 09:39:37 AM  

Waldo Pepper: So if God is in this guy


I didn't think god swung that way?
 
2013-12-13 09:46:55 AM  

OnceMoreWithFeeling: Captain Horatio Mindblower: "Alibi" isn't the word you'e looking for there, subby. An "alibi" means claiming you were someplace else. There's a different term for the deacon's story; it's called a "confession".

Thinking "alibi" works. He claims he wasn't "there" mentally as his excuse.

(Merriam -Webster)
1al·i·bi   noun \ˈa-lə-ˌbī\
1 :  the plea of having been at the time of the commission of an act elsewhere than at the place of commission;  also :  the fact or state of having been elsewhere at the time

2:  an excuse usually intended to avert blame or punishment (as for failure or negligence)


I'll come clean here: I actually know what "alibi" means, and that it isn't misused in the headline. I was trying to make the joke that the deacon's story, though it might evoke some compassion among the more gullible members of the congregation, also implicates him in the unlawful behavior of which he's accused, and is therefore of no use as a legal defense. Heh.

I notice nobody clicked the convenient "funny" button. I'll go away now.
 
2013-12-13 10:00:43 AM  

Captain Horatio Mindblower: OnceMoreWithFeeling: Captain Horatio Mindblower: "Alibi" isn't the word you'e looking for there, subby. An "alibi" means claiming you were someplace else. There's a different term for the deacon's story; it's called a "confession".

Thinking "alibi" works. He claims he wasn't "there" mentally as his excuse.

(Merriam -Webster)
1al·i·bi   noun \ˈa-lə-ˌbī\
1 :  the plea of having been at the time of the commission of an act elsewhere than at the place of commission;  also :  the fact or state of having been elsewhere at the time

2:  an excuse usually intended to avert blame or punishment (as for failure or negligence)

I'll come clean here: I actually know what "alibi" means, and that it isn't misused in the headline. I was trying to make the joke that the deacon's story, though it might evoke some compassion among the more gullible members of the congregation, also implicates him in the unlawful behavior of which he's accused, and is therefore of no use as a legal defense. Heh.

I notice nobody clicked the convenient "funny" button. I'll go away now.


All is forgiven, now go forth and sin no more.
 
2013-12-13 11:42:28 AM  

The Green Intern: So this man thinks that the Devil... not as a concept, not as an idea, but an actual, physical being... jumped into his body and made him fondle a kid?

*sigh*


No, I'm not convinced that he really believes that. So why say it?

Maybe he's desperately hoping to get a jury stupider than he is.
 
2013-12-13 12:46:28 PM  

Rueened: Maybe he's desperately hoping to get a jury stupider than he is.


It could happen here. Seriously.
 
2013-12-13 02:55:37 PM  

RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: So if God is in this guy

I didn't think god swung that way?


hows that resident missionary working out for you?

/he any good?
 
2013-12-13 03:04:41 PM  
So he'll accept that it was satan that beat hes sorry ass with a base ball bat.
 
2013-12-13 03:32:06 PM  

I drunk what: RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: So if God is in this guy

I didn't think god swung that way?

hows that resident missionary working out for you?

/he any good?


Waldo? I really haven't paid much attention in real religion/atheism argument threads lately... But, no one could replace you, IDW! ;-)
 
2013-12-13 03:33:14 PM  

RobSeace: I drunk what: RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: So if God is in this guy

I didn't think god swung that way?

hows that resident missionary working out for you?

/he any good?

Waldo? I really haven't paid much attention in real religion/atheism argument threads lately... But, no one could replace you, IDW! ;-)


something on your mind?
 
2013-12-13 03:48:32 PM  

I drunk what: something on your mind?


It's late Friday afternoon, so not much other than "Is it time to stop working yet??"...
 
2013-12-13 04:20:02 PM  
Well, they say that possession is nine-tenths of the law.
 
2013-12-13 04:38:59 PM  

RobSeace: I drunk what: something on your mind?

It's late Friday afternoon, so not much other than "Is it time to stop working yet??"...


it's a shame you agnostics aren't a bit more inquisitive

but then again if you were I suppose you wouldn't be agnostic...

//meh


RobSeace: Is it time to stop working yet??


Is it time to start?

*click* *click* *scroll* *scroll*  *drool*
 
2013-12-13 04:44:26 PM  

Waldo Pepper: honestly I thought this time I might actually get some kudos for saying this guy is spouting a bunch of BS. lol


Oh, I'll give you some... I was just being silly earlier... I'm not sure your "possessed by god already, so can't be possessed by satan" idea is widely accepted, but regardless I think nearly everyone can agree he's full of shiat one way or another... He might like to believe his own story to make him feel less guilty, but I suspect he knows he's the only real evil beast involved...
 
2013-12-13 04:50:27 PM  

I drunk what: it's a shame you agnostics aren't a bit more inquisitive

but then again if you were I suppose you wouldn't be agnostic...


I think you're thinking of the apatheists...

And, while I am indeed agnostic under the technical definition ("I don't know"), I'm not under the modern popular definition ("I'm not sure what I believe, so I'll be all wishy-washy and not commit one way or the other")... I'm an atheist, and not of the weak "I merely lack belief" variety, but of the strong "I actively disbelieve" variety...

And, I like to think I'm inquisitive! But, nearly the end of the workday on Friday does not really put one in the mood for big philosophical debates...
 
2013-12-13 05:22:43 PM  

RobSeace: but of the strong "I actively disbelieve" variety


it's been a while, I've forgotten most of our conversations, i had some residual mental note that you were at least pleasant enough to be civil (which is why i assumed you were of the mehtheist flavor)

RobSeace: the end of the workday on Friday does not really put one in the mood for big philosophical debates


yeah, i wasn't in the mood either, perhaps some other time?

RobSeace: I'm not sure your "possessed by god already, so can't be possessed by satan" idea is widely accepted


go get 'em tiger

at least have him clarify some of his own supposed beliefs:

Waldo Pepper: a Christian can be tempted and/or tormented by demons but not controlled


LINK

RobSeace: He might like to believe his own story to make him feel less guilty, but I suspect he knows he's the only real evil beast involved


/thread

RobSeace: I like to think I'm inquisitive!


then your fist question should have been:

Waldo Pepper: I'm saying this as a Christian.


I Drunk Rob:  ORLY?

/i'm saying this as a chinese jet pilot
//prove me wrong
 
2013-12-13 05:30:11 PM  

RobSeace: while I am indeed agnostic under the technical definition


the best kind of correct! :D

*blue gargoyle.jpg*

quit being a noob

either you are 51% sure there is/isn't or you are 51% unsure, i don't waste time listening about how much you like bacon
 
2013-12-13 06:04:00 PM  

I drunk what: it's been a while, I've forgotten most of our conversations, i had some residual mental note that you were at least pleasant enough to be civil (which is why i assumed you were of the mehtheist flavor)


I try to be civil in argument, but that doesn't mean I don't have strong opinions and beliefs... You and I used to clash on nearly everything (I think the one thing we agreed on was that most people who call themselves Christians these days aren't deserving of the label, since they don't really follow Christ's teachings), but we didn't yell and call each other names (much) like most others around here do during such "debates" (aka "poo-throwing contests")...

I drunk what: either you are 51% sure there is/isn't or you are 51% unsure


I'd say I'm over 99% sure in my belief that there's no deity... I only say I don't know, because it's the truth; I'm working only off a complete lack of evidence in support of one, and it's entirely possible, however unlikely, one might prove itself to exist someday, in which case I'd accept that proof rather than stick my fingers in my ears and pretend it doesn't exist... But, then, I know you guys don't deal in proof, but faith... I just don't work that way...
 
2013-12-13 06:06:05 PM  

Waldo Pepper: if you scroll back up you will see where I covered why I don't believe one can be possessed


*scrolls back up*

Waldo Pepper: So if God is in this guy there is no way God would allow Satan to share his body.


am i getting warmer?

1. You are saying that one can be possessed, by God.
2. And you said that possession by God prevents Satan from jumping in, which then implies that if one is not possessed by God that Satan has a sporting chance for some possession.

or did we misunderstand you?

Waldo Pepper: Also there is demon possession in the Bible but that is before Christ Death on the cross and the arrival of the Holy Spirit.


1. you're getting ahead of yourself, first you need to establish whether or not possession can happen (and to who), then you can focus on what time ranges it began/end
2. which verse explains the status (disciple vs non) of people who were capable of being possessed?
3. which verse clearly explains why Christ's death was the cutoff point for possession?
 
2013-12-13 06:10:23 PM  

RobSeace: But, then, I know you guys don't deal in proof, but faith


geoff-at-the-movies.com

please quit being a noob

/*what do you mean you guys.jpg*
 
2013-12-13 06:17:41 PM  

RobSeace: I'd say I'm over 99% sure in my belief that there's no deity


so then, naturedidit?

/can you guess what my next question is...?
// :D

RobSeace: I'm working only off a complete lack of evidence in support of one


False

RobSeace: You and I used to clash on nearly everything


who won?

RobSeace: I think the one thing we agreed on was that most people who call themselves Christians these days aren't deserving of the label, since they don't really follow Christ's teachings


Correct.

RobSeace: one might prove itself to exist someday


is Jesus a myth?
 
2013-12-13 06:47:03 PM  

I drunk what: RobSeace: I'm working only off a complete lack of evidence in support of one

False


Well then, present the evidence.
 
2013-12-13 07:08:32 PM  

I drunk what: RobSeace: But, then, I know you guys don't deal in proof, but faith

[geoff-at-the-movies.com image 814x500]

please quit being a noob

/*what do you mean you guys.jpg*


I didn't think I was being controversial there... Isn't it true that religious people tend to pride themselves on their blind faith, and aren't even seeking proof of god? I don't recall you ever working the scientific approach to proving the existence of a god, anyway... But, if that's your thing, cool... Got any proof to share?

I drunk what: so then, naturedidit?


Did what? But, that's sort of athropomorphizing "nature", who isn't really capable of "doing" anything... If you mean "created the universe", I'd say no one "did it"... It just happened...

I drunk what: RobSeace: I'm working only off a complete lack of evidence in support of one

False


I have some evidence in support or against one? Other than complete lack of evidence and deductive reasoning? News to me... Care to share?

I drunk what: who won?


Heh. It probably depends on who you ask... I don't think either "wins" as long as we each maintain our beliefs... But, being forced to support them by challengers is always a good thing... An unchallenged belief isn't worth squat in my opinion...

I drunk what: Correct.


Which is sad, because even as an atheist, I think the world would be a much better place if all those self-described Christians actually followed Christ's teachings, which were generally pretty damn good...

I drunk what: is Jesus a myth?


Jesus? Probably not... Was he the son of a god with the power to perform miracles? I don't believe in that... But, he sure sounded like a great guy with some really good ideas that I wish more people would follow...
 
2013-12-13 09:12:18 PM  

Waldo Pepper: I stand by what I posted


i am a chinese jet pilot

Waldo Pepper: good day


zàijiàn
 
2013-12-13 09:30:10 PM  

RobSeace: Isn't it true that religious people tend to pride themselves on their blind faith, and aren't even seeking proof of god?


i don't believe we've met, I'm IDW, tis a pleasure to meet you

RobSeace: I don't recall you ever working the scientific approach to proving the existence of a god, anyway...


why would I do a silly thing like that?

you seem to be presuming that God has physical properties... you've already failed before you begun

RobSeace: Got any proof to share?


i believe we've already done this before

but for what it's worth, it could worse...

RobSeace: IDW:   is Jesus a myth?

Jesus? Probably not...


at least there is hope for you, what do you suppose,  Lachwen: Well then, present the evidence.,


would say if we asked him...?

but back to you.

RobSeace: I have some evidence in support or against one?


indeed you do, in the very same breath:

RobSeace: Jesus? Probably not... Was he the son of a god with the power to perform miracles? I don't believe in that.


you have evidence, you simply choose to not believe it

evidence is all around us, some just are not inclined to perceive-believe it...

and on that note, as a friendly reminder, Faith = evidence of things unseen, not that strawman you were flaming at

if you prefer to converse with blind faithers, be my guest.  we don't care for such things

btw do you ever use Faith in your beloved Science...?  just curious
 
2013-12-13 09:36:43 PM  

I drunk what: Waldo Pepper: good day

zàijiàn


oops, i meant to say 再見  my bad

;-)

/almost gave it away didn't i?

再見
 
2013-12-13 09:52:58 PM  

RobSeace: Which is


Correct.

RobSeace: It just happened


i see so then, naturedidit

RobSeace: If you mean "created the universe"


b-b-but i thought nature = universe?!??

RobSeace: But, that's sort of athropomorphizing "nature", who isn't really capable of "doing" anything...


She isn't capable of doing anything?

what sort of "nature" have you been observing???

... what is Nature?

/*snert*
 
2013-12-13 09:58:57 PM  

RobSeace: I don't think either "wins" as long as we each maintain our beliefs...


can one of us win, if he is able to convince the other...?

convince me to be an atheist
 
2013-12-13 10:21:51 PM  

RobSeace: seeking proof of god


is more like the game of Clue and much less like a bill nye experiment where we put god in a test tube and measure his electrons

... it was colonel mustard with the knife in the library.

prove it
 
2013-12-14 12:21:47 AM  

I drunk what: RobSeace: IDW:   is Jesus a myth?

Jesus? Probably not...

at least there is hope for you, what do you suppose,  Lachwen: Well then, present the evidence.,

would say if we asked him...?

but back to you.


I'm a her, as a matter of fact.

And you still haven't actually presented a shred of evidence.  You just keep saying "There's evidence!" without actually saying what any of it is.

So tell us.  Present to us your evidence.
 
2013-12-14 09:14:29 AM  

Lachwen: So tell us.  Present to us your evidence.


what would you like evidence for and what sort (quality) of evidence do you require?

Rob was talking about theistic-deistic evidence, is that what you want to discuss?

i think it would be safe to assume that Rob is not a creationist, would it also be safe to assume that you share his belief?  I on the other hand am a creationist, I hope that helps.  As for what evidence there is for deism or theism, I'd say that it is much more reasonable to believe in an intelligent creator as the cause of this universe and most certainly for the creation of life we have observed in it thus far.

so for starters i would submit to you the known universe, with a proper understanding of Science, Reason and Philosophy as the bulk of the evidence

upload.wikimedia.org

with Life being the icing on the cake of evidence

www.genesisnet.info
 
2013-12-14 09:42:21 AM  
I've missed your comment barrage... ;-)

I drunk what: you seem to be presuming that God has physical properties... you've already failed before you begun


Well, if he doesn't, he may as well not exist, since there's not realy any difference from our point of view... If he exists in some other plane of existence or something, which doesn't interact with ours in a detectable way, then for all intents and purposes he doesn't really exist for us... Unless you know of a way to cross into that other realm to see him? (No, I'm not going to try killing myself to see if that works, either!)

I drunk what: RobSeace: IDW: is Jesus a myth?

Jesus? Probably not...

at least there is hope for you, what do you suppose, Lachwen: Well then, present the evidence.,

would say if we asked him...?


Well, she was talking about evidence of a god, not evidence that some guy named Jesus (or Joshua or Yeshua or whatever) existed... There's a lot more of the latter than the former...

I drunk what: you have evidence, you simply choose to not believe it

evidence is all around us, some just are not inclined to perceive-believe it...

and on that note, as a friendly reminder, Faith = evidence of things unseen, not that strawman you were flaming at


Faith is evidence? I don't recall ever hearing it defined that way before... I always thought it was merely a belief in things (as yet) unseen, with or without evidence in support of them... If merely having the belief counts as evidence to you, that seems rather circular logic... Do all those people who firmly believe they've been abducted by aliens have evidence of it by their faith?

I drunk what: btw do you ever use Faith in your beloved Science...? just curious


Every human being operates on faith on some level... I have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow... I have faith that when I drop something it will fall to the floor rather than float away... I have faith that when I turn on the water faucet, water will flow out... Etc... But, the reason we all have faith in such things is because of past observation... The sun has so far come up every morning, so we kind of expect it to keep doing so... Every time we've dropped something, it's fallen downward due to the planet's gravity... Whenever we've turned on the faucet, water has come out; except maybe on a few rare occassions when the plumbing was screwed up, so it's possible it might be screwed up again today when we turn it on, but it's unlikely... So, there are varying levels of faith, based on past observed behavior... But, it's always based on some sort of actual evidence...

If I had never seen a faucet before and encountered one, I'd have no idea what to expect when I turned it on... If someone I trusted told me to expect water to come out because they had personally seen it come out many times before, I might have a bit of faith that that's what would happen... But, if I read an old book written by unknown authors that described faucets and claimed water would come out when turned, I'd be very skeptical, but since it doesn't sound completely against the laws of physics, I might have a sliver of faith in what it says... But, if instead that old book said that unicorns, fairies, genies, and leprechauns would start pouring out of it, I'd have zero faith in it, because it sounds ridiculous and impossible...

I drunk what: She isn't capable of doing anything?

what sort of "nature" have you been observing???


One that isn't a living being capable of actively doing things... When a tornado hits a town, I don't think "That cruel biatch Nature sending a tornado to hit that town and kill all those people!"... No one sent the tornado; it just formed due to the chaotic nature of weather and climate and a host of other unpredictable events and things... It wasn't an action taken by any being, but just a thing that happened, because "shiat happens!"...

I drunk what: convince me to be an atheist


I don't really have any desire to do so... If the idea of a deity seems rational and sane to you, then well you're not likely to be convinced otherwise... To me it sounds utterly irrational and without any kind of justification, so until I see some sort of evidence or at least hear a theory that would make the idea seem even somewhat plausible, I'm certainly not going to believe in one...

I drunk what: is more like the game of Clue and much less like a bill nye experiment where we put god in a test tube and measure his electrons


Interesting analogy... I like it! But, what clues are you picking up that lead you to jump to "God exists!"? Because I must've totally missed those clues...
 
2013-12-14 09:57:49 AM  

I drunk what: As for what evidence there is for deism or theism, I'd say that it is much more reasonable to believe in an intelligent creator as the cause of this universe and most certainly for the creation of life we have observed in it thus far.


I'm not sure why that prospect sounds so much more reasonable to you than the prospect that it just randomly happened through the actions of no one... That's presumably the central disconnect between the religious and the irreligious: to you, the idea of things randomly happening through chance (or really chaotic forces beyond our ability to fully explain) sounds absurd, so there must be some intelligent being behind them; while, to us things happening randomly seems perfectly reasonable and expected, while the idea of an intelligent being being responsible for them seems absurd and unnecessary... Our minds must just be wired differently or something...

But, if this intelligent being created the universe, what created the being? Has he always existed? If so, why can't the universe have always existed (through a series of repeating big bangs and crunches)? Or, why couldn't there have always existed higher dimensional branes floating around which occassionally collide with one another, sometimes producing what we observe as the Big Bang and resulting in the formation of a 4D universe like ours? Why is there such a great need for an intelligent being to be behind it all?
 
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