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(Guardian)   Wildlife officials plead for Yellowstone grizzly bears to be hunted, saying they'll be as dead as anyone else when the park explodes soon and what's the difference?   (theguardian.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Yellowstone, wildlife officials, Grizzlies, Yellowstone grizzly bears, Canadian Wildlife Service, wildlife, diamond, percent difference  
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2426 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Dec 2013 at 6:11 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-12 04:18:33 PM  
A panel of wildlife officials says it's time to lift Endangered Species Act protections for grizzly bears in and around Yellowstone National Park.

www.zachandstevie.com

He warned us. He warned us but we didn't listen until it was too late.
 
2013-12-12 06:25:36 PM  
Grizzlies have been doing pretty well and their populations have been increasing.

As for the enviros that are against this, they need to recognize that removing from the ESA does not mean that unlimited hunting can resume.  There will still be protections.
 
2013-12-12 06:28:23 PM  
www.cuttingedge.org
 
2013-12-12 06:56:26 PM  
Yellowstone Park is a great place to visit and the Old Faithful Inn is an awesome place to stay. That said, do visit Yellowstone Park and do sleep indoors while you are there, because a tent is like a gift wrapper to a grizzly bear.
 
2013-12-12 07:27:08 PM  
You know, there may be a certain point for some of these creatures where we should really just let that whole "99.9% of species are long-gone" figure claim another statistic..

//hint: if a species is unsustainable, we are playing god just as much by trying to save them..
 
2013-12-12 07:32:55 PM  
I saw a big grizzly bear hanging out on the side of the road one time. Everybody got out of their cars to take pictures. There was a ranger there making sure people didn't act stupid. That is the only time I saw one and I have been there about twenty times.
 
2013-12-12 07:54:20 PM  

Somaticasual: //hint: if a species is unsustainable, we are playing god just as much by trying to save them..


In the face of unchecked human sprawl, pretty much every species (including humans) is unsustainable.

The question is whether <species> is dying off because humanity screwed up the natural equilibrium that existed before we came along, or if <species>'s millions of years of existence just happened to be destined to end in the early 21st century.

If the latter, then we can argue about just letting them die.  If the former, we're not "playing god" as much as "trying to fix what we farked up".
 
2013-12-12 07:55:43 PM  
Ok then. I'm all for letting nature take its course and letting the humans try to bag them a bear with only fig leaf covering their bits.

/Helps to get rid of the human protection act, as these festering boils are everywhere and messing up the place.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-12 07:57:45 PM  
Really? I have to do this one?

www.firearmsfax.com
 
2013-12-12 08:07:11 PM  
I'm sure Ted Nugent would suck a reporters dick to get in on some of that Grizzly hunting action.
 
2013-12-12 08:37:09 PM  

Ambitwistor: [www.cuttingedge.org image 678x408]


So we have about 20,000 years to go right?
 
2013-12-12 08:43:42 PM  
I absolutely agree with this. I think humans need more things to kill.
 
2013-12-12 08:52:49 PM  
The lazy buggers have given up on saving people's pic-ca-nick-a baskets.

But while we're on the subject, did you see the article on Yellowstone:  the magma chamber under the caldera is even bigger than they thought: it is something like 90 miles long and 30 miles wide. They found that there have been fewer eruptions but the fallout came from much bigger eruptions.

Weeeeeeeeee! Ain't we got fun.

If it ever blows, I hope the wind is not blowing North East or else Ottawa will get clobbered with the rest of you poor Farkers.

Take out the South. Yeah, that's an idea. They probably did something to deserve it. God keeps hitting the South hard with the natural disasters. He either can't hit the broad side of a barn with a stream of p*** or he knows something about where the gays really live that we don't. New York? One hurricane in maybe 40 years. Florida--it never ends. They get hit harder than Cuba. Cuba has less stuff to destroy, mind you.

The odds are that the next eruption is going to be a few tens of thousand years later than expected. So that's to the good. We might not have a global civilization to wipe out by then.
 
2013-12-12 09:35:54 PM  
Yogi is not amused:
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-12 10:02:44 PM  
Eh  I have a hard time going against the scientist's recommendation. If need be, just make it limited to Yellowstone and maybe some of the surrounding area. It's not unusual to have a desired population and use artificial means to keep it around that level.
 
2013-12-13 01:02:14 AM  

Cepheus Crater: I'm sure Ted Nugent would suck a reporters dick to get in on some of that Grizzly hunting action.


He'd sh*t his pants
 
2013-12-13 03:56:59 AM  

brantgoose: The lazy buggers have given up on saving people's pic-ca-nick-a baskets.

But while we're on the subject, did you see the article on Yellowstone:  the magma chamber under the caldera is even bigger than they thought: it is something like 90 miles long and 30 miles wide. They found that there have been fewer eruptions but the fallout came from much bigger eruptions.

Weeeeeeeeee! Ain't we got fun.

If it ever blows, I hope the wind is not blowing North East or else Ottawa will get clobbered with the rest of you poor Farkers.

Take out the South. Yeah, that's an idea. They probably did something to deserve it. God keeps hitting the South hard with the natural disasters. He either can't hit the broad side of a barn with a stream of p*** or he knows something about where the gays really live that we don't. New York? One hurricane in maybe 40 years. Florida--it never ends. They get hit harder than Cuba. Cuba has less stuff to destroy, mind you.

The odds are that the next eruption is going to be a few tens of thousand years later than expected. So that's to the good. We might not have a global civilization to wipe out by then.


Man it must suck living with yourself.
 
2013-12-13 06:19:06 AM  

Somaticasual: You know, there may be a certain point for some of these creatures where we should really just let that whole "99.9% of species are long-gone" figure claim another statistic..

//hint: if a species is unsustainable, we are playing god just as much by trying to save them..



I'm fine with "playing god" in that sense. We're part of nature, we're ubiquitous, we're going to affect other species; the question is what effect we choose to have.

Keeping something like grizzlies around is something we dofor ourselves, not the bears.If people can sustain them, they aren't "unsustainable." If we can't, then you get your statistic.

/"I decide who lives and who dies!"
 
2013-12-13 06:54:31 AM  
You all do realize there are Griz outside of the park and spread across Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana. Right?
 
2013-12-13 07:40:43 AM  

Brainsick: Cepheus Crater: I'm sure Ted Nugent would suck a reporters dick to get in on some of that Grizzly hunting action.

He'd sh*t his pants


You know that was him yanking the chain of a stoned High Times reporter, right?

His physical was on August 28th, 1969

This is the concert schedule of his band, The Amboy Dukes, in the 2 weeks before his physical:

August 15, 1969: Kenwick-on-the-Lake, Brights Grove, ON, Canada with MC5, The Pleasure Seekers, Mitch Ryder, Motherlode, Stooges, Rationals, Fruit of the Loom, Frigid Pink, The Tea, Whiskey Howl, Big Al's Band, Scarborough Fair, Sound Spectrum, Jackie Graham Society

August 16, 1969: Wampler's Lake Pavilion, Walter J. Hayes State Park, Irish Hills, MI

August 17, 1969: unknown venue, Milan, MI "Michigan Music Supports the John Sinclair Defense Fund"

August 17, 1969: Detroit Public Library front steps, Detroit, MI with Brownsville Station, Third Power, Mitch Ryder and The Detroit Wheels "WABX-FM Free Concert"

August 19, 1969: The Carrawee Ballroom, Flat Rock, MI

August 22, 1969: Midland Fairgrounds, Midland, MI "Mid Michigan Pop Festival and Rock Concert"

August 23, 1969: Aquinas High School, Bronx, NY


Had he really done what he said, it would have probably been noticed by someone and commented on by now.
 
2013-12-13 09:03:59 AM  

dookdookdook: Somaticasual: //hint: if a species is unsustainable, we are playing god just as much by trying to save them..

In the face of unchecked human sprawl, pretty much every species (including humans) is unsustainable.

The question is whether <species> is dying off because humanity screwed up the natural equilibrium that existed before we came along, or if <species>'s millions of years of existence just happened to be destined to end in the early 21st century.

If the latter, then we can argue about just letting them die.  If the former, we're not "playing god" as much as "trying to fix what we farked up".


50 million years from now, the Otters or whomever has taken over as the dominate species will mark this era as a mass extinction event.
 
2013-12-13 09:26:55 AM  

EWreckedSean: 50 million years from now, the Otters or whomever has taken over as the dominate species will mark this era as a mass extinction event.


splitsider.com

EWreckedSean is right. Psychotic... but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
 
2013-12-13 09:54:21 AM  
This is about trophy hunters wanting to hunt a grizzly and the commercial outfitters who want to profit off of it. These same sociopaths recently got laws changed in some Western states to allow hunting mountain lions with dogs. The cat is chased up a tree by snarling vicious hunting dogs where it usually pisses itself out of fear. Then a coward on the ground shoots it out of the tree. There's video of these hunts all over YouTube if you can stomach it.

The commercial hunting outfitters can make enormous money off selling these big game hunts. I'm guessing they could sell a grizzly hunt to some idiot Houston businessman for $30K.
 www.hunting-safaris-africa.com

theworldsbestever.s3.amazonaws.com
thesoliloguy.files.wordpress.com
www.ncasafaris.com
www.northstaroutfitting.com
mileshighoutfitters.com
gothunts.com
"Whenever I see a photograph of some sportsman grinning over his kill, I am always impressed by the striking moral and esthetic superiority of the dead animal to the live one."
 -Edward Abbey
 
2013-12-13 11:48:04 AM  

REO-Weedwagon: This is about trophy hunters wanting to hunt a grizzly and the commercial outfitters who want to profit off of it. These same sociopaths recently got laws changed in some Western states to allow hunting mountain lions with dogs. The cat is chased up a tree by snarling vicious hunting dogs where it usually pisses itself out of fear. Then a coward on the ground shoots it out of the tree. There's video of these hunts all over YouTube if you can stomach it.

The commercial hunting outfitters can make enormous money off selling these big game hunts. I'm guessing they could sell a grizzly hunt to some idiot Houston businessman for $30K.
 [www.hunting-safaris-africa.com image 250x166]

[theworldsbestever.s3.amazonaws.com image 500x407]
[thesoliloguy.files.wordpress.com image 300x240]
[www.ncasafaris.com image 500x377]
[www.northstaroutfitting.com image 300x239]
[mileshighoutfitters.com image 720x540]
[gothunts.com image 600x450]
"Whenever I see a photograph of some sportsman grinning over his kill, I am always impressed by the striking moral and esthetic superiority of the dead animal to the live one."
 -Edward Abbey


The ironic thing is that all that money spent by those rich people gets plowed pretty much back into conservation of those animals and the others living in the same habitat, either directly in the case of trophy and license fees (which, for African animals, can be huge: tens of thousands for a single animal), or indirectly by supporting the locals with good paying jobs which helps keep them aware that their livelihood depends on poachers not wiping out animals.

In fact, of the 3 main types of hunting, sport hunting is the one you want to encourage, because people who like to hunt so much that they are willing to hundreds or thousands of dollars to do it spend a lot of actual and political capital to ensure they will be able to continue doing it.

The guy looking to feed himself or his family (subsistence hunting), or to make a quick buck selling animal parts to limp-dicked Chinamen (market hunters) don't really care.  If the animal they hunt goes extinct, they'll just go after something else.

As for Edward Abbey?  Classic hallmark of a person who feels instead of thinks.  People who feel instead of think can't handle the seeming paradox of sport hunting leading to *INCREASES* in targeted animals, instead of decreases.   He *MUST* have seen how bringing hunting in the US into a regulated system of sport hunting resulted in increases in those populations because he lived through that time period:

For example, this graph is for Missouri, but it mirrors the entire US:

extension.missouri.edu

For a scholarly paper that shows this applies to all of the US, see here:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1276&conte xt =icwdm_usdanwrc

The same pattern applies to black bears and wild turkeys, and to a lesser extent other species like moose and elk.  Sport hunters in the first half of the 1900's were responsible for the repopulation of those species after they had been wiped out by the "morally superior" subsistence and market hunters.

How could he not have seen that?  Maybe it just didn't register because his ideology was fixed.
 
2013-12-13 02:33:24 PM  

REO-Weedwagon: These same sociopaths recently got laws changed in some Western states to allow hunting mountain lions with dogs. The cat is chased up a tree by snarling vicious hunting dogs where it usually pisses itself out of fear. Then a coward on the ground shoots it out of the tree. There's video of these hunts all over YouTube if you can stomach it.


That is the way it has always been done in most intermountain west states.  It is by far the most efficient way to hunt them.  The state management agencies wouldn't sell as many tags (and hound permits) if they didn't allow it.  And at last check, their populations here are doing fine.

You post is a classic example of touchy-feely wildlife management that is completely devoid of reality.
 
2013-12-13 07:40:14 PM  

dittybopper: As for Edward Abbey?  Classic hallmark of a person who feels instead of thinks.  People who feel instead of think can't handle the seeming paradox of sport hunting leading to *INCREASES* in targeted animals, instead of decreases.   He *MUST* have seen how bringing hunting in the US into a regulated system of sport hunting resulted in increases in those populations because he lived through that time period:



I don't have a moral objection to sport hunting, but I can understand that some people do.

After all, there's probably a lot of homicide that would make sense if you looked at it purely from pragmatic  population-management standpoint, too.
 
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