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(NFL)   NFL to consider having replay reviews conducted by a Video Goal Judge at the National Hockey League Toronto office, or something   (nfl.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, National Hockey League, Roger Goodell, NFL, video goal judge, Albert Breer, replay reviews, Dustin Keller, New England Patriots  
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870 clicks; posted to Sports » on 12 Dec 2013 at 2:18 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-12 02:25:16 PM  
I think they really just need to clarify the rules. For example, they need to make it absolutely clear to the referees that unless Nick Foles hands the ball directly to a defender it's not an INT because reasons.
 
2013-12-12 02:29:43 PM  
How about just have the booth review guy make the decision instead of spending 5 hours for the referee to run to the little screened area, find the headset, etc.

Put an earpiece on the ref, booth guy makes the call real quick and tells the ref.   Of course this would cut into 30 minutes of commercials per game so it would never work.
 
2013-12-12 02:36:32 PM  
How about installing software that takes the replay video clips and automatically renders them as stop-motion Lego videos?
 
2013-12-12 02:43:35 PM  
What a 'Video Goal Judge' may look like:
cdn2.sbnation.com
 
2013-12-12 02:46:40 PM  
Makes perfect sense. No matter how rational or fair the on-field referees might be, it's human nature to err on the side of your original call if you can spot enough ambiguity during the replay because, hey, no one likes to admit you farked up in the first place in front of 70,000+ fans and millions of TV viewers.
 
2013-12-12 02:47:30 PM  
I think replays should be voted on by the general public, American Idol style. Charge people $0.75 a vote. Think of the profits!
 
2013-12-12 02:54:04 PM  
The NHL does this so much better than the NFL.  This, and explanations for fines and suspensions.
Here's the explanation for a player's suspension:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695544
Very clean and clear.
 
2013-12-12 03:04:16 PM  
Just another time to note, Jeff Triplette is a complete retard.

"Wait you mean that things *behind* the goal line can affect plays *near* the goal line? Get the fark out!"
 
2013-12-12 03:09:36 PM  
Here's something else the NFL could learn from the NHL:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/12/11/nhl-player-safety-dept- tr ies-change-behavior-not-just-punish/LTbP6BhHUwuMVTuudaTTJL/story.html

Clear open communication between the league and players explaining what is expected of players to avoid penalties.
 
2013-12-12 03:26:53 PM  
I'm looking forward for this system to be used by the FA to review all yellow and red cards and properly punish purposeful diving. Course this may come some time after Sepp Blatter is removed out of office.
 
2013-12-12 03:33:56 PM  

rjakobi: I'm looking forward for this system to be used by the FA to review all yellow and red cards and properly punish purposeful diving. Course this may come some time after Sepp Blatter is removed out of office.


Sepp Blatter has nothing to do with the FA

/He's a FIFA dude.
 
2013-12-12 03:34:04 PM  
Great. This is the best option.

The one big potential issue is that they need to ensure there is at least one set of eyes available per ongoing game. No chance that a review is needed and they are delayed waiting for another one to finish.

Ideally they aren't even allowed to watch the game they are responsible for and only view the relevant replays.
 
2013-12-12 03:48:11 PM  
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! OHHH OHHHH!!!!!!
 
2013-12-12 03:48:36 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: The NHL does this so much better than the NFL.  This, and explanations for fines and suspensions.
Here's the explanation for a player's suspension:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695544
Very clean and clear.


This.

/The injury vs. intent bit could use a little work though, but I'll save that for a hockey thread
 
2013-12-12 03:51:10 PM  

edgesrealm: NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! OHHH OHHHH!!!!!!


Sorry, that was supposed to be prefaced with a picture of Sam Kinison....
 
2013-12-12 04:20:32 PM  

Raging Whore Moans: Galloping Galoshes: The NHL does this so much better than the NFL.  This, and explanations for fines and suspensions.
Here's the explanation for a player's suspension:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695544
Very clean and clear.

This.

/The injury vs. intent bit could use a little work though, but I'll save that for a hockey thread


Or we could turn it into a hockey thread
 
2013-12-12 04:31:09 PM  

Uzzah: How about installing software that takes the replay video clips and automatically renders them as stop-motion Lego videos?


nfldotcom.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-12 04:33:12 PM  
 
2013-12-12 04:34:26 PM  
Crazy as it is, the NFL needs more cameras.

Most of the issues are around bad angles. The high cameras do a great job of surveying the field, but they need to have a lot of cameras on the lines. It's sometimes really hard to tell the difference between a forward pass and a lateral, just like it's hard to tell if the ball has crossed the goal line before the player's knee touches the ground.

The goal line camera exists, but for the other 99 yards on the field, the camera is in action and usually misses where the ball ends up *exactly*. And the top-view angle is usually of no help.

Considering this is a game of inches, I find this kind of important.

/My $0.02
 
2013-12-12 04:41:05 PM  

homarjr: Crazy as it is, the NFL needs more cameras.

Most of the issues are around bad angles. The high cameras do a great job of surveying the field, but they need to have a lot of cameras on the lines. It's sometimes really hard to tell the difference between a forward pass and a lateral, just like it's hard to tell if the ball has crossed the goal line before the player's knee touches the ground.

The goal line camera exists, but for the other 99 yards on the field, the camera is in action and usually misses where the ball ends up *exactly*. And the top-view angle is usually of no help.

Considering this is a game of inches, I find this kind of important.

/My $0.02


I wonder if the NFL is trying to develop some kind of on field tracking system for the ball.  Something like stick a couple RFID chips inside the ball at each tip or something, have the balls location constantly tracked by computer.
 
2013-12-12 04:45:33 PM  

Polish Hussar: homarjr: Crazy as it is, the NFL needs more cameras.

Most of the issues are around bad angles. The high cameras do a great job of surveying the field, but they need to have a lot of cameras on the lines. It's sometimes really hard to tell the difference between a forward pass and a lateral, just like it's hard to tell if the ball has crossed the goal line before the player's knee touches the ground.

The goal line camera exists, but for the other 99 yards on the field, the camera is in action and usually misses where the ball ends up *exactly*. And the top-view angle is usually of no help.

Considering this is a game of inches, I find this kind of important.

/My $0.02

I wonder if the NFL is trying to develop some kind of on field tracking system for the ball.  Something like stick a couple RFID chips inside the ball at each tip or something, have the balls location constantly tracked by computer.


Something like hawkeye in soccer and tennis? I think that would be cool
 
2013-12-12 05:07:36 PM  

homarjr: Crazy as it is, the NFL needs more cameras.

Most of the issues are around bad angles. The high cameras do a great job of surveying the field, but they need to have a lot of cameras on the lines. It's sometimes really hard to tell the difference between a forward pass and a lateral, just like it's hard to tell if the ball has crossed the goal line before the player's knee touches the ground.

The goal line camera exists, but for the other 99 yards on the field, the camera is in action and usually misses where the ball ends up *exactly*. And the top-view angle is usually of no help.

Considering this is a game of inches, I find this kind of important.

/My $0.02


One of the problems with *that* many more cameras is someone has to set them up, maintain them, monitor them, and be able to basically handle them at need. That's a chunk of change when extrapolated out to 31 stadiums and god knows how many years the system would be in place. RFID chips in the ball and readers around the field (maybe on the overhead camera(s)). They've already demoed it with rugby and soccer. As much as I love the chain gang and spots, the refs usually do a pretty bad job of spotting the ball in general, so it's really a pseudoscientific approach at best. At worst it's a load of shiat and god those refs are horrible and WHY IS IT SHORT THAT WAS GOOD BY A MILE *deep breath*

Yeah so RFID is the way to go.
 
2013-12-12 05:10:54 PM  

Polish Hussar: Also, American football coverage could take a few pointers from Canadian hockey coverage on incorporating honoring your nation's veterans into your coverage.


If that man hasn't gotten a lifetime contract yet the CBC should be burned to the ground.
 
2013-12-12 05:17:23 PM  

redmid17: One of the problems with *that* many more cameras is someone has to set them up, maintain them, monitor them, and be able to basically handle them at need. That's a chunk of change when extrapolated out to 31 stadiums and god knows how many years the system would be in place. RFID chips in the ball and readers around the field (maybe on the overhead camera(s)). They've already demoed it with rugby and soccer. As much as I love the chain gang and spots, the refs usually do a pretty bad job of spotting the ball in general, so it's really a pseudoscientific approach at best. At worst it's a load of shiat and god those refs are horrible and WHY IS IT SHORT THAT WAS GOOD BY A MILE *deep breath*Yeah so RFID is the way to go.


RFID would work in cases where the player is upright, gets brought to a halt by a mob of defenders, and the question is "whar forward progress whar?" It would also help in spotting the chains accurately after a first down. But it wouldn't help as much in the common case of down-by-contact, because it doesn't tell you when the player's knee (or shin or butt) was down.
 
2013-12-12 05:23:22 PM  

Flappyhead: Polish Hussar: Also, American football coverage could take a few pointers from Canadian hockey coverage on incorporating honoring your nation's veterans into your coverage.

If that man hasn't gotten a lifetime contract yet the CBC should be burned to the ground.


Thanks to Rogers Communications getting exclusive NHL broadcast rights for the next 12 years, a lifetime contract with CBC doing hockey montages might not be worth that much.  Hockey Night in Canada is going to be around for at least the next 4 years, but Rogers will have editorial control and will get all of the ad revenue.
 
2013-12-12 05:25:20 PM  

KickahaOta: redmid17: One of the problems with *that* many more cameras is someone has to set them up, maintain them, monitor them, and be able to basically handle them at need. That's a chunk of change when extrapolated out to 31 stadiums and god knows how many years the system would be in place. RFID chips in the ball and readers around the field (maybe on the overhead camera(s)). They've already demoed it with rugby and soccer. As much as I love the chain gang and spots, the refs usually do a pretty bad job of spotting the ball in general, so it's really a pseudoscientific approach at best. At worst it's a load of shiat and god those refs are horrible and WHY IS IT SHORT THAT WAS GOOD BY A MILE *deep breath*Yeah so RFID is the way to go.

RFID would work in cases where the player is upright, gets brought to a halt by a mob of defenders, and the question is "whar forward progress whar?" It would also help in spotting the chains accurately after a first down. But it wouldn't help as much in the common case of down-by-contact, because it doesn't tell you when the player's knee (or shin or butt) was down.


True there are obvious limitations like you mentioned, but a lot of that can be remedied by repositioning existing cameras. Most people would be very surprised at the number of cameras pointed at random players on the sideline or something similar.
 
2013-12-12 05:28:01 PM  

Polish Hussar: Flappyhead: Polish Hussar: Also, American football coverage could take a few pointers from Canadian hockey coverage on incorporating honoring your nation's veterans into your coverage.

If that man hasn't gotten a lifetime contract yet the CBC should be burned to the ground.

Thanks to Rogers Communications getting exclusive NHL broadcast rights for the next 12 years, a lifetime contract with CBC doing hockey montages might not be worth that much.  Hockey Night in Canada is going to be around for at least the next 4 years, but Rogers will have editorial control and will get all of the ad revenue.


Almost forgot, Tim Thompson is the guy who does the HNiC opening montages.  Profile on him the National Post did back during the playoffsArticle in the Montreal Gazette about his "Dear Canada" opening His Twitter, where he provides links to the HNiC opening montages that he creates.  His You Tube channel where most of them are archived.
 
2013-12-12 05:28:58 PM  
I really don't like reviews, but since they're in EVERY play should be under its scrutiny.
Penalties, non-penalties... the whole lot.
 
2013-12-12 05:29:26 PM  

Polish Hussar: Flappyhead: Polish Hussar: Also, American football coverage could take a few pointers from Canadian hockey coverage on incorporating honoring your nation's veterans into your coverage.

If that man hasn't gotten a lifetime contract yet the CBC should be burned to the ground.

Thanks to Rogers Communications getting exclusive NHL broadcast rights for the next 12 years, a lifetime contract with CBC doing hockey montages might not be worth that much.  Hockey Night in Canada is going to be around for at least the next 4 years, but Rogers will have editorial control and will get all of the ad revenue.


Please stop reminding me, I'm trying to convince myself that deal is just a giant mass delusion we're all suffering.
 
2013-12-12 05:36:40 PM  
College seems to do it okay.  I never understood why they would want the on-field ref to have to crawl into a little box and put on earphones to do the review, especially since, as already mentioned, they may not really want to admit they messed up.
 
2013-12-12 06:09:16 PM  

KickahaOta: redmid17: One of the problems with *that* many more cameras is someone has to set them up, maintain them, monitor them, and be able to basically handle them at need. That's a chunk of change when extrapolated out to 31 stadiums and god knows how many years the system would be in place. RFID chips in the ball and readers around the field (maybe on the overhead camera(s)). They've already demoed it with rugby and soccer. As much as I love the chain gang and spots, the refs usually do a pretty bad job of spotting the ball in general, so it's really a pseudoscientific approach at best. At worst it's a load of shiat and god those refs are horrible and WHY IS IT SHORT THAT WAS GOOD BY A MILE *deep breath*Yeah so RFID is the way to go.

RFID would work in cases where the player is upright, gets brought to a halt by a mob of defenders, and the question is "whar forward progress whar?" It would also help in spotting the chains accurately after a first down. But it wouldn't help as much in the common case of down-by-contact, because it doesn't tell you when the player's knee (or shin or butt) was down.


Sure, it will never be perfect, but it will certainly help. Even if a question of down by contact, so long as you can tell when a player is down you can use the timestamp on the video to refer to the RFID.

It also will help with the question of whether the ball broke the plane of the goal line.

Not a perfect solution to every issue, but a great improvement.
 
2013-12-12 06:11:37 PM  

Tumbleweed Garden: College seems to do it okay.  I never understood why they would want the on-field ref to have to crawl into a little box and put on earphones to do the review, especially since, as already mentioned, they may not really want to admit they messed up.


It also could help to remove the incentive to give one back to the team if the refs think they screwed up earlier or to "not have the refs decide the game".

That is why I don't think the review team should even be able to watch the game they are reviewing.
 
2013-12-12 11:47:05 PM  
DAMN YOU GARY BERGMAN. YOU HAVE INFILTRATED THE NFL. WHEN DOES IT END?
 
2013-12-13 10:54:11 AM  

redmid17: homarjr: Crazy as it is, the NFL needs more cameras.

Most of the issues are around bad angles. The high cameras do a great job of surveying the field, but they need to have a lot of cameras on the lines. It's sometimes really hard to tell the difference between a forward pass and a lateral, just like it's hard to tell if the ball has crossed the goal line before the player's knee touches the ground.

The goal line camera exists, but for the other 99 yards on the field, the camera is in action and usually misses where the ball ends up *exactly*. And the top-view angle is usually of no help.

Considering this is a game of inches, I find this kind of important.

/My $0.02

One of the problems with *that* many more cameras is someone has to set them up, maintain them, monitor them, and be able to basically handle them at need. That's a chunk of change when extrapolated out to 31 stadiums and god knows how many years the system would be in place. RFID chips in the ball and readers around the field (maybe on the overhead camera(s)). They've already demoed it with rugby and soccer. As much as I love the chain gang and spots, the refs usually do a pretty bad job of spotting the ball in general, so it's really a pseudoscientific approach at best. At worst it's a load of shiat and god those refs are horrible and WHY IS IT SHORT THAT WAS GOOD BY A MILE *deep breath*

Yeah so RFID is the way to go.


I don't disagree with you, but I've got three words for you that will.

NFL REFEREE ASSOCIATION

/Ok, an acronym of three words, plus two more words...
 
2013-12-13 01:55:54 PM  

Polish Hussar: Also, American football coverage could take a few pointers from Canadian hockey coverage on incorporating honoring your nation's veterans into your coverage.


Kinda of hard to honor those who end up killing your former employees.

RIP Pat Tillman
 
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