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(The Daily Beast)   That handshake with Obama and Castro? Yeah, that was a well-planned troll. And we all took a big bite   (thedailybeast.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, President Obama, Castros, Raul Castro, Cuban Revolution, humans, Cuban Government, Secretary of State John Kerry, Robert Menendez  
•       •       •

16555 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2013 at 8:49 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



352 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-12-12 10:47:08 AM  

KellyX: /but he's worse President ever, not 'cause he's black, god no, how can you bring race into it!? He's just an empty suit do nothing that we're threatened by because he does stuff, oh and he's a communist, marxist, socialist, nazi, fascist, liberal, kenyan, uppity ni.... uhhh... democrat...! Yea! What's the problem with all these bl.... blah people???


Every single decision he's made has been wrong, and will destroy America.  Every single one.  Especially the arugula.

It's like The Road out there.  Haven't you been outside?
 
2013-12-12 10:48:38 AM  

stevenboof: THE GREAT NAME: NAME understands libs so well that several of the libs on this very thread are actually NAME's sock-puppets (that is, NAME posting under another account name). Bet you can't guess which ;-)

Hmmmmm, setting up multiple accounts for the sole purpose of trolling.  Too bad there aren't any rules about his type of behavior.


Its just a "difference of opinion".

Now stop trolling other fark members by pointing out that they explicitly stated they are trolling by using sock puppet accounts.
 
2013-12-12 10:49:13 AM  

KellyX: So let me get this straight...

The Obama Administration has been quietly for the last 2 months been trying to begin talks with Cuba (which realistically we knew was going on after they announced that Cubans could start traveling there, or whatever that was) and when they got the chance to meet publically at a event on neutral ground, Castro offered his hand and probably told Obama he was ready to talk more and start normalizing relations.

So this is what I see...

1. End 2 wars and start pulling most troops out

2. Killed Osama bin Laden

3. Helped End Gadhafi's dictatorship (not much you can do afterwards with its ppl, they have to sort that out)

4. Something something Egypt... What can you do about people that want to vote stupid in though.

5. Starting process of normalizing relations with Iran

6. Starting process of normalizing relations with Cuba

/but he's worse President ever, not 'cause he's black, god no, how can you bring race into it!? He's just an empty suit do nothing that we're threatened by because he does stuff, oh and he's a communist, marxist, socialist, nazi, fascist, liberal, kenyan, uppity ni.... uhhh... democrat...! Yea! What's the problem with all these bl.... blah people???



i13.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-12 10:54:34 AM  

The Evil Home Brewer: We need to get past this cold war induced hysteria with Cuba and move on. So they probably have nukes left over from their association with the former Soviet Union...

Continuing this embargo against a neighbor 90 miles from Florida is just causing unnecessary suffering for their people (and the potential loss of additional economic markets we could take advantage of because of the proximity and lower shipping costs for US products than what we pay to ship to Europe or Asia).

If we really want their society to crumble? Lift the embargo and send representatives of the major US fast food chains to Cuba as ambassadors.

On a more serious note? The Chinese are communists too.... yet they have become preferred trading partners with the US because of their manufacturing base and willingness to pollute their own country to manufacture crap we are willing to buy.

So Fidel Castro probably had JFK assassinated.... The guy is sitting in a wheelchair drooling on himself .... if he's still alive. That was 50 years ago.... Time to move on.

His brother Raul seems to be a more reasonable and easier to deal with. Time to begin accepting shipments of Cuban cigars again. If we get Cuban cigars and they get McDonalds? .... We won the cold war.


The Chinese are NOT communists, and haven't been for a very long time.

Free education?  Not in China.
Free healthcare?  Not in China.
Income equality, or any real effort in that direction?  Not in China.

China is rapidly becoming a corporatist oligarchy, much like the direction the Republicans aspire to take us.
 
2013-12-12 10:56:04 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: stevenboof: THE GREAT NAME: stevenboof: THE GREAT NAME: NAME understands libs so well that several of the libs on this very thread are actually NAME's sock-puppets (that is, NAME posting under another account name). Bet you can't guess which ;-)

Hmmmmm, setting up multiple accounts for the sole purpose of trolling.  Too bad there aren't any rules about his type of behavior.

Have you guessed which yet? Hint: I always give them properly capitalised names.

I couldn't care less about what you do with your alts.  It's just good to see having alts for the sole purpose of trolling is cool now.

Nope, not trolling. The alts are there to provide better lib arguments than actual libs can manage, so that NAME has something to get NAME's teeth into.


Your lame detector is broken. You might want to get it fixed.
 
2013-12-12 10:57:29 AM  

DarkVader: China is rapidly becoming a corporatist oligarchy, much like the direction the Republicans aspire to take us.


I, for one, cannot wait for the air quality.

thinkprogress.org
 
2013-12-12 10:59:14 AM  
GOOD. Let's get this done. I may want to visit Cuba some day.
 
2013-12-12 11:01:52 AM  

Nappy Imus: THE GREAT NAME: stevenboof: THE GREAT NAME: stevenboof: THE GREAT NAME: NAME understands libs so well that several of the libs on this very thread are actually NAME's sock-puppets (that is, NAME posting under another account name). Bet you can't guess which ;-)

Hmmmmm, setting up multiple accounts for the sole purpose of trolling.  Too bad there aren't any rules about his type of behavior.

Have you guessed which yet? Hint: I always give them properly capitalised names.

I couldn't care less about what you do with your alts.  It's just good to see having alts for the sole purpose of trolling is cool now.

Nope, not trolling. The alts are there to provide better lib arguments than actual libs can manage, so that NAME has something to get NAME's teeth into.

Your lame detector is broken. You might want to get it fixed.


Pretty much proves my point (Nappy is not the alt)
 
2013-12-12 11:03:31 AM  
An american president shaking hands with a communist?  Inconceivable!

news.xinhuanet.com
 
2013-12-12 11:03:35 AM  
I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.
 
gja
2013-12-12 11:07:20 AM  

Lord_Baull: DarkVader: China is rapidly becoming a corporatist oligarchy, much like the direction the Republicans aspire to take us.

I, for one, cannot wait for the air quality.

[thinkprogress.org image 555x370]


Please tell me that is a 'shop, or a pic of a terrible event that was a one-time thing.
 
2013-12-12 11:07:23 AM  

KellyX: So let me get this straight...

The Obama Administration has been quietly for the last 2 months been trying to begin talks with Cuba (which realistically we knew was going on after they announced that Cubans could start traveling there, or whatever that was) and when they got the chance to meet publically at a event on neutral ground, Castro offered his hand and probably told Obama he was ready to talk more and start normalizing relations.

So this is what I see...

1. End 2 wars and start pulling most troops out

2. Killed Osama bin Laden

3. Helped End Gadhafi's dictatorship (not much you can do afterwards with its ppl, they have to sort that out)

4. Something something Egypt... What can you do about people that want to vote stupid in though.

5. Starting process of normalizing relations with Iran

6. Starting process of normalizing relations with Cuba

/but he's worse President ever, not 'cause he's black, god no, how can you bring race into it!? He's just an empty suit do nothing that we're threatened by because he does stuff, oh and he's a communist, marxist, socialist, nazi, fascist, liberal, kenyan, uppity ni.... uhhh... democrat...! Yea! What's the problem with all these bl.... blah people???


And he closed Guantanamo, of course.
 
2013-12-12 11:07:29 AM  

trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.


i13.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-12 11:07:34 AM  

trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.


What exactly is there to be an apologist for?
 
2013-12-12 11:10:10 AM  
Most awkward political handshake ever:

storage.canoe.ca


Nicest handshake ever:

zacharystarkey.files.wordpress.com

Completely inappropriate outrageously offensive handshake, worse than Castro, really:

i184.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-12 11:12:36 AM  

gja: Lord_Baull: DarkVader: China is rapidly becoming a corporatist oligarchy, much like the direction the Republicans aspire to take us.

I, for one, cannot wait for the air quality.

[thinkprogress.org image 555x370]

Please tell me that is a 'shop, or a pic of a terrible event that was a one-time thing.



Yes, it's a terrible event. In English, it's translated roughly into "weekday."  Some runners refused to compete in the 2008 Olympics.
 
2013-12-12 11:23:08 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: You know Free Radical, the fact you are free owes more to people like John McCain than to people like Fidel/Raul Castro. You do know that, right? Or are you just another lib who "CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!"


LOL.

peterandsharda.com
 
2013-12-12 11:25:44 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.

What exactly is there to be an apologist for?


The fact he uses the label "apologists" is a tacit admission of the existing outrage.
 
2013-12-12 11:30:51 AM  
Time to get over it, America! It was a long farking time ago
 
2013-12-12 11:31:52 AM  

Lord_Baull: trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.

[i13.photobucket.com image 222x282]


Yeah, the first I even heard of this was from the apologists on facebook already cranking out stuff like this

i141.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-12 11:34:59 AM  

trappedspirit: Lord_Baull: trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.

[i13.photobucket.com image 222x282]

Yeah, the first I even heard of this was from the apologists on facebook already cranking out stuff like this

[i141.photobucket.com image 451x800]


Oh, I see. You don't get the difference between making fun of GOP arugula-based nontroversies and "apologists"
 
2013-12-12 11:35:14 AM  

qorkfiend: ElLoco: I don't really keep up with these things... but why is there still an embargo again? I'm assuming there's some sort of at least half-assed reason?

The reason is that Fidel Castro is a communist.

The real reason is that Florida is still full of anti-Castro Cuban expats, and no serious candidate for President wants alienate Florida and its 29 EV, so when it comes to Cuba the Republicans whip up their base and the Democrats remain silent.


And does anyone imagine for one second that when Fidel finally kicks off, that those equally elderly expats will return in triumph to Cuba?

They waited all this time for him to die and the US to do the job for them; he didn't and we didn't so fark them.
 
2013-12-12 11:35:47 AM  

jso2897: THE GREAT NAME: Wooly Bully: Smoky Dragon Dish: The only people really outraged over this are Cubans.

"Neville Chamberlain shook hands with Hitler"

-- noted Cuban John McCain

That's not outrage, that's a perceptive and pertinent observation.

Libs confuse outrage and legitimate counter-argments because they both feel the same to the lib; and for libs, it's all about how they feel during the debate, never about finding the reality.

Yeah, tell us all about "libs" and what "libs" do.
Do you ever have anything of any actual substance to contribute to any discussion? Do you have any views of your own at all?


THE GREAT NAME has admitted he's a troll in multiple threads, so odds are on "no."
 
2013-12-12 11:39:30 AM  
Eh. I wish he didn't shake his hand, but it's not really a hot button issue for me. It's not like the guy took a smiling group photo at a funeral or something. I mean, THAT would be a pure ghetto/trailer trash move right there, right?
 
2013-12-12 11:40:12 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: trappedspirit: Lord_Baull: trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.

[i13.photobucket.com image 222x282]

Yeah, the first I even heard of this was from the apologists on facebook already cranking out stuff like this

[i141.photobucket.com image 451x800]

Oh, I see. You don't get the difference between making fun of GOP arugula-based nontroversies and "apologists"


They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.  I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this.  Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.
 
2013-12-12 11:42:03 AM  
So let me get this straight...

The Obama Administration has been quietly for the last 2 months been trying to begin talks with Cuba (which realistically we knew was going on after they announced that Cubans could start traveling there, or whatever that was) and when they got the chance to meet publically at a event on neutral ground, Castro offered his hand and probably told Obama he was ready to talk more and start normalizing relations.

So this is what I see...

1. End 2 wars and start pulling most troops out

2. Killed Osama bin Laden

3. Helped End Gadhafi's dictatorship (not much you can do afterwards with its ppl, they have to sort that out)

4. Something something Egypt... What can you do about people that want to vote stupid in though.

5. Starting process of normalizing relations with Iran

6. Starting process of normalizing relations with Cuba

/but he's worse President ever, not 'cause he's black, god no, how can you bring race into it!? He's just an empty suit do nothing that we're threatened by because he does stuff, oh and he's a communist, marxist, socialist, nazi, fascist, liberal, kenyan, uppity ni.... uhhh... democrat...! Yea! What's the problem with all these bl.... blah people???


Your view is delightfully simple and cute, like a small child playing!
 
2013-12-12 11:42:59 AM  

Krieghund: SlothB77: there are Americans in prison in Cuba. Obama's got no business shaking the guy's hand

There are Americans in prison in American. Obama's got no business touching himself at night.


www.grammy365.com

Disagrees.
 
2013-12-12 11:43:43 AM  

ciberido: jso2897: THE GREAT NAME: Wooly Bully: Smoky Dragon Dish: The only people really outraged over this are Cubans.

"Neville Chamberlain shook hands with Hitler"

-- noted Cuban John McCain

That's not outrage, that's a perceptive and pertinent observation.

Libs confuse outrage and legitimate counter-argments because they both feel the same to the lib; and for libs, it's all about how they feel during the debate, never about finding the reality.

Yeah, tell us all about "libs" and what "libs" do.
Do you ever have anything of any actual substance to contribute to any discussion? Do you have any views of your own at all?

THE GREAT NAME has admitted he's a troll in multiple threads, so odds are on "no."


Just checked this joker's profile. He can't even decide whether he's a frothing retarded lib or a bible bashing sky monster believer. You have to be one or the other!
 
2013-12-12 11:44:07 AM  

trappedspirit: They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.  I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this.  Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.


Oh since you personally didn't see it, it obviously didn't happen.
 
2013-12-12 11:45:02 AM  

trappedspirit: They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.   I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this. Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.


Ok, maybe this guy


SlothB77: I mean, there are Americans in prison in Cuba.  Obama's got no business shaking the guy's hand.

 
2013-12-12 11:45:52 AM  

trappedspirit: I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this


A sitting member of the United States Senate compared it to shaking hands with Hitler.
 
2013-12-12 11:46:31 AM  

Lord_Baull: gja: Lord_Baull: DarkVader: China is rapidly becoming a corporatist oligarchy, much like the direction the Republicans aspire to take us.

I, for one, cannot wait for the air quality.

[thinkprogress.org image 555x370]

Please tell me that is a 'shop, or a pic of a terrible event that was a one-time thing.


Yes, it's a terrible event. In English, it's translated roughly into "weekday."  Some runners refused to compete in the 2008 Olympics.


Air pollution stretches from Beijing to Shanghai, as seen from space
 
2013-12-12 11:46:37 AM  

trappedspirit: trappedspirit: They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.   I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this.  Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.

Ok, maybe this guy


SlothB77: I mean, there are Americans in prison in Cuba.  Obama's got no business shaking the guy's hand.


And John McCain. And the right-wing blogs. And Fox News. Other than that though, practically nobody.
 
2013-12-12 11:49:52 AM  
Is this real? Are Republicans now trying to lie about how their fainting couch addiction isn't real?
 
2013-12-12 11:52:12 AM  
Hilarious. This reminds me of a friend of mine that was cheating on her boyfriend. For some dumb reason the guy she was cheating with sent her a love letter, and for an even dumber reason she held on to it. When her boyfriend found it and confronted her she grabbed the note, tore it up and flushed it down the toilet. Then denied there was ever a note.

The people in this thread stating that there was never any outrage are like that girl. Unfortunately, you can't flush the interwebs down the toilet.
 
2013-12-12 11:54:00 AM  

impaler: trappedspirit: I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this

A sitting member of the United States Senate compared it to shaking hands with Hitler.


It would be similar.  They are both dictators.  Different facial hair.
 
2013-12-12 11:54:42 AM  

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Eh. I wish he didn't shake his hand, but it's not really a hot button issue for me. It's not like the guy took a smiling group photo at a funeral or something. I mean, THAT would be a pure ghetto/trailer trash move right there, right?


What's wrong with shaking a hand?

"Hey nice to meet you, how about we talk over some coffee or tea and discuss our differences and maybe come to a middle ground?"

What is wrong with that?
 
2013-12-12 11:54:50 AM  

SlothB77: I mean, there are Americans in prison in Cuba.  Obama's got no business shaking the guy's hand.


That's some bad reasoning. Many Americans are locked up worldwide but no one would suggest that Obama shouldn't be shaking the hands of Cameron because some yanks are in prison in the UK.  The American's locked up there (like Alan Gross) were caught spying.  We have a number of Cubans behind bars for the same reason. And the same goes for most of the first world.

Now if you had said...because of human rights violations and free elections...
 
2013-12-12 11:55:33 AM  

trappedspirit: impaler: trappedspirit: I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this

A sitting member of the United States Senate compared it to shaking hands with Hitler.

It would be similar.  They are both dictators.  Different facial hair.


It would be similar? Do you even know who Hitler was besides a mustache aficionado? It's ludicrous to compare Raul Castro to Hitler. It's ludicrous to compare almost anyone to Hitler short of maybe Pol Pot and Stalin.
 
2013-12-12 11:55:41 AM  

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Eh. I wish he didn't shake his hand, but it's not really a hot button issue for me. It's not like the guy took a smiling group photo at a funeral or something. I mean, THAT would be a pure ghetto/trailer trash move right there, right?


It wasn't a funeral.
 
2013-12-12 11:55:54 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: trappedspirit: They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.  I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this.  Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.

Oh since you personally didn't see it, it obviously didn't happen.


cameroncrazy1984: trappedspirit: trappedspirit: They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.   I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this.  Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.

Ok, maybe this guy


SlothB77: I mean, there are Americans in prison in Cuba.  Obama's got no business shaking the guy's hand.

And John McCain. And the right-wing blogs. And Fox News. Other than that though, practically nobody.


Well thank god everyone is overreacting like a screeching harpy.  The right-wing blogs, lol.
 
2013-12-12 11:56:08 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Eh. I wish he didn't shake his hand, but it's not really a hot button issue for me. It's not like the guy took a smiling group photo at a funeral or something. I mean, THAT would be a pure ghetto/trailer trash move right there, right?

What's wrong with shaking a hand?

"Hey nice to meet you, how about we talk over some coffee or tea and discuss our differences and maybe come to a middle ground?"

What is wrong with that?


It means we don't want to start a war with them. The GOP is very afraid of diplomacy.
 
2013-12-12 11:57:40 AM  

trappedspirit: Well thank god everyone is overreacting like a screeching harpy.  The right-wing blogs, lol.


So now you're going from "nobody is doing it" to "these popular right-wing blogs, Fox News, and Senator McCain don't matter, they're practically nobody"

Just admit you were wrong and get over it.
 
2013-12-12 12:00:46 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker: Eh. I wish he didn't shake his hand, but it's not really a hot button issue for me. It's not like the guy took a smiling group photo at a funeral or something. I mean, THAT would be a pure ghetto/trailer trash move right there, right?

What's wrong with shaking a hand?

"Hey nice to meet you, how about we talk over some coffee or tea and discuss our differences and maybe come to a middle ground?"

What is wrong with that?


It reeks of cowardace and dijon mustard.
 
2013-12-12 12:00:53 PM  

dinch: Hilarious. This reminds me of a friend of mine that was cheating on her boyfriend. For some dumb reason the guy she was cheating with sent her a love letter, and for an even dumber reason she held on to it. When her boyfriend found it and confronted her she grabbed the note, tore it up and flushed it down the toilet. Then denied there was ever a note.

The people in this thread stating that there was never any outrage are like that girl. Unfortunately, you can't flush the interwebs down the toilet.


You hang out with love cheats? Typical lib.
 
2013-12-12 12:02:23 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: trappedspirit: impaler: trappedspirit: I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this

A sitting member of the United States Senate compared it to shaking hands with Hitler.

It would be similar.  They are both dictators.  Different facial hair.

It would be similar? Do you even know who Hitler was besides a mustache aficionado? It's ludicrous to compare Raul Castro to Hitler. It's ludicrous to compare almost anyone to Hitler short of maybe Pol Pot and Stalin.


It would be ludicrous to compare the number of Jews they had each killed.  But there's tons of other attributes they had in common.  Even many just from the stand point of being charismatic leaders.  If you are going to ignore alllll those attributes and call the comparison ludicrous, well that's the tail wagging the dog.
 
2013-12-12 12:06:36 PM  

trappedspirit: But there's tons of other attributes they had in common.  Even many just from the stand point of being charismatic leaders.  If you are going to ignore alllll those attributes and call the comparison ludicrous, well that's the tail wagging the dog.


There are tons of more apt comparisons to charismatic leaders than simply Hitler. It's a stupid comparison to make. Continue digging that hole, though. You're totally convincing everyone that there was no outrage over the handshake.
 
2013-12-12 12:06:52 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: KellyX: So let me get this straight...

The Obama Administration has been quietly for the last 2 months been trying to begin talks with Cuba (which realistically we knew was going on after they announced that Cubans could start traveling there, or whatever that was) and when they got the chance to meet publically at a event on neutral ground, Castro offered his hand and probably told Obama he was ready to talk more and start normalizing relations.

So this is what I see...

1. End 2 wars and start pulling most troops out

2. Killed Osama bin Laden

3. Helped End Gadhafi's dictatorship (not much you can do afterwards with its ppl, they have to sort that out)

4. Something something Egypt... What can you do about people that want to vote stupid in though.

5. Starting process of normalizing relations with Iran

6. Starting process of normalizing relations with Cuba

/but he's worse President ever, not 'cause he's black, god no, how can you bring race into it!? He's just an empty suit do nothing that we're threatened by because he does stuff, oh and he's a communist, marxist, socialist, nazi, fascist, liberal, kenyan, uppity ni.... uhhh... democrat...! Yea! What's the problem with all these bl.... blah people???

And he closed Guantanamo, of course.


He did try.  Congress had a giant bipartisan pants-wetting over bringing the Gitmo detainees onto American soil for trial and detainment, and did everything possible to prevent it from happening.  Because, you know, the instant the terrorists set foot in the US, they'll gain superpowers from our yellow sun and destroy the country.
 
2013-12-12 12:07:11 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: THE GREAT NAME: [oeuvre]

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT A LIBERAL BELIEVES, ASK A CONSERVATIVE.


Lookie here now.  They have lots of forwarded emails to back up what they know in their hearts about liberals.
 
2013-12-12 12:08:33 PM  

trappedspirit: cameroncrazy1984: trappedspirit: Lord_Baull: trappedspirit: I've seen more apologists for this event than accusers.  This is weird propaganda machine.

[i13.photobucket.com image 222x282]

Yeah, the first I even heard of this was from the apologists on facebook already cranking out stuff like this

[i141.photobucket.com image 451x800]

Oh, I see. You don't get the difference between making fun of GOP arugula-based nontroversies and "apologists"

They are apologizing for his behavior by saying everyone plays this fake diplomatic game.  I've yet to see anyone losing their mind over this.  Just the apologists out in force but the other team didn't even know it was game day.


So because you're ignorant they're "apologists". Gotcha.
 
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