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(Forbes)   In an effort to suck more, YouTube is pulling down Let's Play videos   (forbes.com) divider line 40
    More: Asinine, YouTube, game publisher, machinima  
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6422 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Dec 2013 at 9:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-12-12 08:35:52 AM  
7 votes:
Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?
2013-12-12 09:18:36 AM  
6 votes:

nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?


Pretty much every game company is denouncing this. They sound pretty upset too. Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

We have been working with YouTube to resolve various issues that have plagued the YouTube gaming community this week, as soon as we learned about what was going on.

1. A channel named "4GamerMovie" has been claiming reviews, Let's Plays, and Walkthrough videos for our games, including Metro: Last Light. We raised this issue with YouTube late last evening (CET) and from the reports we've gotten in the past hours, it seems that claims by this channel have been lifted. If this is not the case, please dispute the claim and link us your video in question via Twitter to @

2. Claims on titles like Saints Row IV, Dead Island Riptide, and Metro: Last Light have also been made by two companies involved with music: IDOL and Shock Entertainment Pty. Some claims are even about visual content. At the time of writing, this has not been resolved yet. However, we have made YouTube aware of this issue and the two companies in question do not seem to be restricting their wave of copyright claims to just Deep Silver titles. We hope that this situation will also be resolved quickly for all involved.

3. If you have received any claims by THQ for videos containing footage of Deep Silver titles, please dispute this claim and send us a tweet to @
Deep Silver has no intention of preventing players, who like to create gaming content on YouTube using our games, from doing so. Nor do we seek to block any videos of the kind. This includes Let's Play, Walkthrough, Review, or other edited or commentated videos that are monetized by a player.


Whether your opinion of our games is positive or negative in your YouTube video, it is not our right as a games publisher to infringe on your basic right to voice your opinion freely using a public platform.

We will be monitoring the changes on YouTube and any other online medium that lets our fans share their common passion for games, and react and adapt to facilitate our communities wherever they are.

You will not be alone in this, whatever changes may come. Within the games industry, including at our competitors, there are many who share this vision. Adapting to change may sometimes take time, so we hope that the gaming community will be patient with not just us, but others as well, as we collectively strive to resolve any issues that arise.
2013-12-12 09:55:30 AM  
4 votes:
If this ends up with the destruction of PewDiePie's career, good.
2013-12-12 01:09:04 PM  
3 votes:
So this is just over zealous copyright assholes doing one last dance to impress the boss for a Christmas bonus?
2013-12-12 09:52:21 AM  
3 votes:
Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror
2013-12-12 05:14:42 PM  
2 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: red5ish: Reviewing games and showing viewers how to play and successful strategies is a valuable resource for gamers and free advertising for game companies. If the YouTube poster manages to make a few bucks doing the work - even turning it into a full time job - so much the better. If the poster makes a product that is valuable to his audience and the game manufacturers why shouldn't he/she get paid? Quality content deserves compensation and figuring out not only how to produce the content but how to get paid for it isn't easy. If Google and/or YouTube are sending out takedown notices, copyright claims or warnings by way of an algorithm that's shoddy work. If Google wants YouTube to be nothing but  cat videos and people falling off their skateboards that's their business but please quit buying websites and destroying them.

Because their work relies on content that they didn't create and aren't offering any compensation for to the original creators of and never received authorization to use.  Clips, parodies, etc are fair use but there are a lot of videos which show entire games from beginning to end.  Youtube's algorithm is overzealous and they'll hopefully scale it back a bit, but making a living putting commentary tracks on the work of another person is kind of shiatty.


You know, I've never understood this aspect of how we look at intellectual property.  I mean, every single one of us monetizes something someone else made every single day.  I'm a sysadmin, and of all the programs I administrate, I wrote exactly one of them myself.  I make my living monetizing products from Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec, and a whole host of other companies.  It's a same for every other profession on Earth.  Your carpenter didn't design and make his own hammer, or chop down his own trees to make his own lumber.  Your plumber didn't invent the snake.  The local Mexican restaurant didn't come up with the idea of burritos out of whole cloth.  And yet, we look at transformative creative works (and yes, I put Let's Plays in that category, as well as music mashups and a whole host of other things) as something shameful, and something that people shouldn't be allowed to make money from.  Why?
2013-12-12 01:16:18 PM  
2 votes:

Begoggle: If this shuts down Pewdiepie and his stupid channel then I'm all for it


Conversely, if this shuts down the Achievement Hunter Let's Play channel, I'm staunchly against it.
2013-12-12 01:02:19 PM  
2 votes:
I've purchased several games after watching Let's Plays and reviews on YouTube. I think it's been about 10 games since the summer that had Youtube as the deciding factor.

A little while ago I went to my GF's sister's wedding. I took video including video from my 3D camera. I went to upload the videos for the family including the 3D videos since Youtube has built in support for 3D. Anyway, the video of the daddy-daughter dance got auto flagged and muted because of the song playing. It's not like this would be any sort of replacement for purchasing an album or song or anything.

The system tells you that your video is flagged and why. After that it gives you a chance to respond with several options from a drop down list to choose for why you think the video shouldn't be flagged. Every single option, once selected, was met with an automated "no you dumb bastard you're just not allowed to to it at all" type message. It's like they're just farking with you. I didn't notice any option to send the video for review with an actual person. Auto detect a song, auto mute, nothing you can do. For a daddy-daughter dance at a wedding.

How are people able to upload songs, albums, movies, etc and get around the detection system?
2013-12-12 11:34:51 AM  
2 votes:
two words:  Dailymotion, Vimeo.

Who said Youtube was the only game in town?
2013-12-12 11:07:03 AM  
2 votes:
fta: "When you rely on one site alone for income, any policy change can instantly destroy you."

This is why I have always been and always will be mistrustful of the cloud.
2013-12-12 10:27:45 AM  
2 votes:
As a developer, this sucks. I want people to record and share their experiences with the things I make.

As for YouTube ... It's a Siberian corner of The Google Empire. Google has a 'problem' in that they are so sought-after by applicants, that Google can be selective in their hiring that every candidate is overqualified for the position they end up in. You have phD's doing effectively customer service -- like responding to DCMA takedown requests on YouTube. (Or writing code to automate it)  There's only so many whiz-bang cool new Google stuff to work on ...

If you're a computer science phD, I'd think you'd rather make rockets or interplanetary probes or computer games than get parked at YouTube.
2013-12-12 10:20:51 AM  
2 votes:
it only really bothers me if people who aren't making money get their stuff taken down
2013-12-12 10:03:07 AM  
2 votes:
Honestly, in a way, I'm glad this happened.  You could not ask for a better display of how the modern form of copyright is incompatible with the way modern society conducts itself.
2013-12-12 09:50:11 AM  
2 votes:
How else am I going to see DeceasedCrab struggle with La Mulana or ProtonJon curse so eloquently at Kaizo Mario?
2013-12-12 08:55:03 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?


Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"
2013-12-12 08:27:13 AM  
2 votes:
This is news? Where has subby been?
2013-12-13 11:15:15 AM  
1 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: Let's Plays don't pay for the content either,


Excuse me? I purchased every game I've LPed. How many times do you need me to pay for the same material?
2013-12-13 08:02:57 AM  
1 votes:
I wonder if the same dickhead(s) behind the requirement for a Google+ account to comment, the ability to hyperlink in comments, and all the other general asshattery on YouTube over the last year is behind this?

If so, either fire their ass(es) or just hit the goddamn self-destruct button.

Let's Players have just about created a whole job market for themselves, one that exploded since the recession.  These people found a revenue stream to support themselves when there were no jobs to be found, freeing up the few jobs there were open for others who lacked the charismatic elements that make a Let's Player successful.  Youtube provided them this path, and now have slowly transformed it into a hostile work environment.  YOutube's made money hand over fist with these people, and now bites the hand that feeds...
2013-12-12 07:24:10 PM  
1 votes:

CtrlAltDestroy: Citation needed. WITH citation of the limits of percent of total product to be used


3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Read the rest yourself.

CtrlAltDestroy: The point is that one cannot effectively argue on a point which one is not familiar with.


I'm familiar with what we're arguing on, I was mocking that you assumed I wasn't a gamer because I chose to respect the artistic collaboration involved and for some reason tried to write my position off as irrelevant because of experience.  Only consoles I don't own are the Xbox One, WiiU, and PS4 because I've got a backlog of about 50 games.  What I'm saying so you don't have to put words in my mouth is that in your Republican analogy I have a vagina just like you.
2013-12-12 07:24:01 PM  
1 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: This sentence made this thread worth it alone. Respond or be written off as a person!


Aaaand you failed. Expecting a logical response to clear points being made in an argument is what makes a debate possible. Conveniently ignoring the points which weaken your argument is cowardly and not in the spirit of a debate. Trolls and people who refuse to be wrong are the ones who ignore what they don't want to acknowledge. I have not read beyond this line. You failed to actually engage in a logical conversation. As such, I'm holding up to my end of the bargain and will no longer see any of your posts.

I pity anyone who has to interact with you on a regular basis.

Goodbye and good riddance.
2013-12-12 07:13:12 PM  
1 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: CtrlAltDestroy: I wouldn't care. Good for them.

Cool.  I would.  You'd have the right to allow them to do so, while I'd have the right to restrict my work.  Awesome to have those options, ain't it?


You completely ignored the part of that post where I mention how someone doing so is good for you. I get the feeling that this is more about how it makes you feel then the actual outcome of said actions. You're coming off like a control freak. As in, this seems like a topic that you're reacting to emotionally instead of rationally. You, time and time again, throw out the logic of how this kind of thing isn't harmful and your arguments are based around someone else making money without your permission.

If that person never make the modified part of your work, then you get no additional money. If they do and don't cut you checks you get no additional money from them, but you do get money because of the increased attention that your work is receiving. Just like my example with me and my favorite music artist. Why did you ignore that very real world example of how this type of thing is beneficial to the original artists? Youtube Let's Plays are also responsible for video game purchases, AAA titles and indie, that I would have otherwise never purchased. How is that a bad thing or something worth removing for the future?

Respond to that last paragraph directly and in it's entirely or be written off as a person with no interest in rational debate.

Although, I thought that you were bored and going to leave. Looks like that was just a snide, condescending remark. Luckily, I'm not intimidated by such things.
2013-12-12 06:39:18 PM  
1 votes:

nulluspixiusdemonica: About time...

...collection of sweaty neckbeards huffing and "umm"ing into dimestore mics displaying far too much emotional investment...


Sucks that you are forced to watch them.
2013-12-12 06:37:10 PM  
1 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera

Remove the movie and what's the value of the commentary without it?


About the same if you removed all the oil paint from the Mona lisa.
2013-12-12 06:34:00 PM  
1 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

The end goal is to create a cultural domain which FUTURE artists are allowed to draw from. Not so you can make a living. That's a byproduct

Okay?  I'm cool with the distribution rights of creators being protected to help promote and create a cultural domain for artists in the future to draw from that also helps artist make a living now.


I think you misunderstand the argument that I'm trying to make. Giving artists distribution rights is an INCENTIVE. Not a means to an end. You seem to view it as an end, with the enrichment of the public domain being a secondary byproduct.
2013-12-12 06:28:21 PM  
1 votes:

Lumbar Puncture: Goddamn, I need to buy a new keyboard or start using the preview function.

Kinek: I'd make the argument that the 'Majority' of the creative work for MST3k was the value added by the riffing crew. If I can, through my own efforts, take a work and recreate it or put it in such a context that it goes from unwatchable, to highly entertaining, then I'd say that that's transformative

Making jokes over a creative work doesn't transform it into something else. That's why Rifftrax offers the commentary separately, they don't have to pay for the distribution rights of the movies while still offering the part that they are responsible for creating.


We're suffering from an is/ought dilemma here. The reason why they offer it seperately is to avoid expensive lawsuits. That's the same reason why most fair use cases end in someone shuffling off and not pressing it further because the cost of legal action or defense is too high. That's the /is/. You can't point out what people are doing as evidence as that being the way it should be done.

And let's take this

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059080/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1">http://www.imd b.com/title/tt0059080/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

That's got a score of 4.1. Pretty average.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0655416/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3">http://www.imd b.com/title/tt0655416/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3

That's got a score of 8.2

So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera.
2013-12-12 05:25:58 PM  
1 votes:

RoxtarRyan: HeartBurnKid: So, it turns out that Lets Players aren't the only ones who got caught in this net...


FTFA: "Game Critic Says Youtube Copyright Policy Threatens His Livelihood"

Sorry, cheeky guy with the very grandma-esque armoir behind you, but if you've based your entire livelihood on being a Youtube videogame critic and had no other fallback plan... Some mistakes were probably made.

From the video of the gentleman who shows the diversity of the word "f*ck":
"For years, Youtube made billions off the backs of people and now they're saying fark them".

Welcome to the real world, dude. People get fired/laid off/etc every day. Xerox laid off hundreds of people with armed police present at the scene a couple days ago, but yeah, your world is rocked because Youtube is doing what they damn well want with their website. These people are so angry, just find another outlet, or get a server and host your own videos. It isn't difficult, and if your livelihood depended on it, you should have taken steps to ensure that it isn't threatened like this.


So do tell.  If your employer, or your biggest client if you're self employed, told you to go pound sand today, what would you do?
2013-12-12 05:18:17 PM  
1 votes:

HeartBurnKid: Lumbar Puncture: Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.

Most of them don't even care then.  In fact, a lot of publishers have come out to say that they're not behind the YouTube DMCApocalypse, and they're willing to help the affected producers to sort things out with YouTube.


The problem is the game publishers probably don't own the music in their games; they just license it, and their license probably doesn't cover this situation.  If a music publisher wants to flag or take down a video of a video game Let's Play that is of a video game which has background music they own playing in the background, it is probably completely legal for them to do so.
kab
2013-12-12 02:18:10 PM  
1 votes:

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?


We've made a pasttime of watching other people play sports for us, so the answer is a resounding yes.
2013-12-12 01:11:10 PM  
1 votes:
If this shuts down Pewdiepie and his stupid channel then I'm all for it
2013-12-12 11:59:57 AM  
1 votes:

comslave: two words:  Dailymotion, Vimeo.

Who said Youtube was the only game in town?


Vimeo has been hunting down LPers for a while.
2013-12-12 11:56:06 AM  
1 votes:

doczoidberg: Well, all good things must come to an end. Time to find YouTube's replacement. I'm honestly surprised there isn't already competition out there.


Of course there is.  Vimeo, Blip, Twitch.TV (for gaming content specifically), DailyMotion, etc.  Unfortunately, none of them have the visibility of YouTube, so if you want to make money doing this or just want as many people as possible to see your work, Youtube is probably the best option.
2013-12-12 11:47:23 AM  
1 votes:
Well, all good things must come to an end. Time to find YouTube's replacement. I'm honestly surprised there isn't already competition out there.
2013-12-12 10:53:38 AM  
1 votes:

snake_beater: Nah, I think this is just someone's bad idea of a joke.


Yeah, I think so too. Google should just stick to April Fool's.
2013-12-12 10:37:40 AM  
1 votes:

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror


Well, we are lazy enough to watch other people play baseball and guitar for us right now.
2013-12-12 10:28:23 AM  
1 votes:
yes Youtube.... take down Retromania videos.... even though we just raised over $2k for terminally ill children.

assholes.
2013-12-12 10:21:23 AM  
1 votes:

meanmutton: tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.


...the DMCA has been used to prosecute thousands of copyright claims.  There's a provision in the DMCA for prosecuting those who file false reports. You wanna guess how many people have been prosecuted for filing a false DMCA report?  I'll give you a hint: It rhymes with "not a damned one".  And as long as that's the case, any sort of "fix" of the DMCA or YouTube policies is moot.  And as long as the MPAA and the RIAA have their say, that will continue to be the case.
2013-12-12 10:12:21 AM  
1 votes:
tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.
2013-12-12 10:09:03 AM  
1 votes:
A few years ago I posted a video of a remix of Depeche Mode's "Behind the Wheel" I had made. I slowed down the "visual" part of the original Anton Corbijn video and substituted the audio with my remix. YouTube took it down within a few days due to copyright violations. I remade the video with using video from a drive in Sydney I had with my then-GF. No problems since then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UDlHwKDQDU

I had a video of a mimed comedy routine a friend and I performed in front of an audience that had some olde-timey music playing along with carefully timed sound effects. It took a few years but ultimately YouTube took it down in the U.S. because of copyright violations for the music.

Now I go onto YouTube and I find ENTIRE albums and ENTIRE movies. What's the deal YouTube?
2013-12-12 10:05:57 AM  
1 votes:

nulluspixiusdemonica: About time...

...collection of sweaty neckbeards huffing and "umm"ing into dimestore mics displaying far too much emotional investment...


This is going to make that problem wose, not better. People doing Let's Play videos will either be talking more, to thwart the check, or they will turn off music all-together, allowing you to hear all the other neckbeard sounds that the BGM used to mask.
2013-12-12 08:28:52 AM  
1 votes:

i369.photobucket.com

 
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