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(Forbes)   In an effort to suck more, YouTube is pulling down Let's Play videos   (forbes.com) divider line 205
    More: Asinine, YouTube, game publisher, machinima  
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6417 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Dec 2013 at 9:40 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



205 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-12 08:27:13 AM  
This is news? Where has subby been?
 
2013-12-12 08:28:52 AM  

i369.photobucket.com

 
2013-12-12 08:35:52 AM  
Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?
 
2013-12-12 08:55:03 AM  

nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?


Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"
 
2013-12-12 09:07:30 AM  

nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?


Probably that google hasn't monetized it enough yet.
 
2013-12-12 09:18:36 AM  

nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?


Pretty much every game company is denouncing this. They sound pretty upset too. Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

We have been working with YouTube to resolve various issues that have plagued the YouTube gaming community this week, as soon as we learned about what was going on.

1. A channel named "4GamerMovie" has been claiming reviews, Let's Plays, and Walkthrough videos for our games, including Metro: Last Light. We raised this issue with YouTube late last evening (CET) and from the reports we've gotten in the past hours, it seems that claims by this channel have been lifted. If this is not the case, please dispute the claim and link us your video in question via Twitter to @

2. Claims on titles like Saints Row IV, Dead Island Riptide, and Metro: Last Light have also been made by two companies involved with music: IDOL and Shock Entertainment Pty. Some claims are even about visual content. At the time of writing, this has not been resolved yet. However, we have made YouTube aware of this issue and the two companies in question do not seem to be restricting their wave of copyright claims to just Deep Silver titles. We hope that this situation will also be resolved quickly for all involved.

3. If you have received any claims by THQ for videos containing footage of Deep Silver titles, please dispute this claim and send us a tweet to @
Deep Silver has no intention of preventing players, who like to create gaming content on YouTube using our games, from doing so. Nor do we seek to block any videos of the kind. This includes Let's Play, Walkthrough, Review, or other edited or commentated videos that are monetized by a player.


Whether your opinion of our games is positive or negative in your YouTube video, it is not our right as a games publisher to infringe on your basic right to voice your opinion freely using a public platform.

We will be monitoring the changes on YouTube and any other online medium that lets our fans share their common passion for games, and react and adapt to facilitate our communities wherever they are.

You will not be alone in this, whatever changes may come. Within the games industry, including at our competitors, there are many who share this vision. Adapting to change may sometimes take time, so we hope that the gaming community will be patient with not just us, but others as well, as we collectively strive to resolve any issues that arise.
 
2013-12-12 09:50:11 AM  
How else am I going to see DeceasedCrab struggle with La Mulana or ProtonJon curse so eloquently at Kaizo Mario?
 
2013-12-12 09:52:21 AM  
Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror
 
kab
2013-12-12 09:53:23 AM  
Dumb move on Youtube's part, hopefully this gets cleared up.
 
2013-12-12 09:53:47 AM  
Guess that means they'll finally pull down all the copies of my "How Not to be Seen" done in Halo that have been floating around the internet since 2004.

linky:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUEHfAtKT9o">http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=GUEHfAtKT9o

I created this well before Youtube existed, but that hasn't stopped dozens of people from posting it up there
 
2013-12-12 09:54:36 AM  
The real issue is they don't want people to see how derivative and shiatty looking their games are.  Just watch the trailer, plebs.
 
2013-12-12 09:55:30 AM  
If this ends up with the destruction of PewDiePie's career, good.
 
2013-12-12 09:58:16 AM  

doglover: nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?

Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"



It's the licensed music that is being auto-dinged by Google's new checker that is the problem.

The site can't differentiate between music played as BGM (no violation) and music that is a ripped OST (violation), so it is flagging Let's Play videos.
 
2013-12-12 09:58:34 AM  
Phew. Thought it said , "learn to play videos."

How am I going to pretend I know how to play guitar?
 
2013-12-12 09:58:58 AM  

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror


Meh, no person has the time or money to play every single game out there.  I'm not going to spend 500 dollars to buy a new xbox just to play the next halo games.
 
2013-12-12 09:59:49 AM  
About time...

...collection of sweaty neckbeards huffing and "umm"ing into dimestore mics displaying far too much emotional investment...
 
2013-12-12 10:03:07 AM  
Honestly, in a way, I'm glad this happened.  You could not ask for a better display of how the modern form of copyright is incompatible with the way modern society conducts itself.
 
2013-12-12 10:04:04 AM  
scottydoesntknow:

Pretty much every game company is denouncing this. They sound pretty upset too. Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

Yeah, I read about that yesterday when this started coming up. There was speculation that either someone is spamming youtube with take-down requests, or that youtube/google is testing a new algorithm  for future copyright lawsuit protection, but now it seems like someone is trying to capitalize on being a troll of some sort.

Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.
 
2013-12-12 10:05:57 AM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: About time...

...collection of sweaty neckbeards huffing and "umm"ing into dimestore mics displaying far too much emotional investment...


This is going to make that problem wose, not better. People doing Let's Play videos will either be talking more, to thwart the check, or they will turn off music all-together, allowing you to hear all the other neckbeard sounds that the BGM used to mask.
 
2013-12-12 10:06:31 AM  
Google, please don't keep doing this. What would be the point in preventing potential customers from buying a game at brick and mortars or at amazon;et al?    If they don't know, they won't part with their mo'.

In fact, one can make a case that Let's Players and the like strengthen the economy while providing entertainment simultaneously.   For example, a player could reveal new characters and levels (sometimes in games that are decades old), thus inevitability ensuring another sale of the title.  Entertainment and a microcosm of economics all in one and on YouTube to boot.
 
2013-12-12 10:09:03 AM  
A few years ago I posted a video of a remix of Depeche Mode's "Behind the Wheel" I had made. I slowed down the "visual" part of the original Anton Corbijn video and substituted the audio with my remix. YouTube took it down within a few days due to copyright violations. I remade the video with using video from a drive in Sydney I had with my then-GF. No problems since then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UDlHwKDQDU

I had a video of a mimed comedy routine a friend and I performed in front of an audience that had some olde-timey music playing along with carefully timed sound effects. It took a few years but ultimately YouTube took it down in the U.S. because of copyright violations for the music.

Now I go onto YouTube and I find ENTIRE albums and ENTIRE movies. What's the deal YouTube?
 
2013-12-12 10:12:08 AM  
Nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?

People have monetized the Let's Play videos, which are basically playing through an entire game with commentary.  While video games streams miss the interactive piece, it's still created media and this isn't acceptable in any other form of media.  Even MST3K paid a licensing fee for the movies they show and do commentary over, it's why Rifftrax typically provides the audio but requires you to get the video on your own.

Most companies already have policies now that allow the use of their games for videos as long as they're not monetized, the ones with more popular channels on Youtube I'm sure the publishers will make deals with to allow them to use the videos, though they likely will ask for a licensing fee.

I'm surprised by how long it's been allowed to go on.
 
2013-12-12 10:12:21 AM  
tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.
 
2013-12-12 10:17:42 AM  

nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?


...actually, I think it's another of YouTube's lauded "changes"...instead of putting more eyes on copyright violations (which they should be doing to combat false flag operations, but are too cheap to pay out money to people to do so), they're "streamlining" the process...which of course means that Let's Plays (and probably eventually speedruns and even MovieClips and Abridged Anime) get automatically flagged.
 
2013-12-12 10:20:29 AM  

meanmutton: tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.


That is my impression as well. It's patent troll business theory applied to online videos.
 
2013-12-12 10:20:51 AM  
it only really bothers me if people who aren't making money get their stuff taken down
 
2013-12-12 10:21:23 AM  

meanmutton: tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.


...the DMCA has been used to prosecute thousands of copyright claims.  There's a provision in the DMCA for prosecuting those who file false reports. You wanna guess how many people have been prosecuted for filing a false DMCA report?  I'll give you a hint: It rhymes with "not a damned one".  And as long as that's the case, any sort of "fix" of the DMCA or YouTube policies is moot.  And as long as the MPAA and the RIAA have their say, that will continue to be the case.
 
2013-12-12 10:21:51 AM  
My boys will be pissed if they start pulling Zack Scott videos or the Diamond Minecart guy.
 
2013-12-12 10:22:21 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: People have monetized the Let's Play videos, which are basically playing through an entire game with commentary. While video games streams miss the interactive piece, it's still created media and this isn't acceptable in any other form of media.


Has the law been settled one way or the other on whether video games are "transformative" works, and play-throughs are covered under fair use? As I saw one person put it, "A video game is just a tool used to create savegame files".
 
2013-12-12 10:22:34 AM  
End Machinima + PewDiePie,, but keep Game Grumps + AVGN. They at least have entertaining commentary and review a range of games instead of biased and promoted reviews.
 
2013-12-12 10:23:00 AM  
I'm not worried for my favorite game reviewers, Rage Select. Where else can you find muppets weaving together dick jokes and Kierkegaard references while playing Ryse: Son of Rome?
/Shameless plug
 
2013-12-12 10:23:39 AM  
Francis is going to freak.
 
2013-12-12 10:23:52 AM  

rjakobi: If this ends up with the destruction of PewDiePie's career, good.


Aim for the stars.
 
2013-12-12 10:26:39 AM  
There is copyrighted music played in the background of Let's Plays as they play games with such.  I'm sure that trips some automated copyright takedown notices (and possibly some non-automated ones).  It appears that's where the vast majority of these notices are coming from.
 
2013-12-12 10:27:45 AM  
As a developer, this sucks. I want people to record and share their experiences with the things I make.

As for YouTube ... It's a Siberian corner of The Google Empire. Google has a 'problem' in that they are so sought-after by applicants, that Google can be selective in their hiring that every candidate is overqualified for the position they end up in. You have phD's doing effectively customer service -- like responding to DCMA takedown requests on YouTube. (Or writing code to automate it)  There's only so many whiz-bang cool new Google stuff to work on ...

If you're a computer science phD, I'd think you'd rather make rockets or interplanetary probes or computer games than get parked at YouTube.
 
2013-12-12 10:28:23 AM  
yes Youtube.... take down Retromania videos.... even though we just raised over $2k for terminally ill children.

assholes.
 
2013-12-12 10:28:51 AM  

Cubicle Jockey: Lumbar Puncture: People have monetized the Let's Play videos, which are basically playing through an entire game with commentary. While video games streams miss the interactive piece, it's still created media and this isn't acceptable in any other form of media.

Has the law been settled one way or the other on whether video games are "transformative" works, and play-throughs are covered under fair use? As I saw one person put it, "A video game is just a tool used to create savegame files".


I don't believe so, I think there's been an argument that the original commentary provided makes the use transformative, but I don't think that would hold up under scrutiny.  Even then Fair Use would not likely cover the Let's Play videos that show the majority of the game.
 
2013-12-12 10:30:56 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:


I don't know what they make, but that letter alone makes me want to throw a bunch of money at them.
 
2013-12-12 10:32:49 AM  

Kyosuke: scottydoesntknow: Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

I don't know what they make, but that letter alone makes me want to throw a bunch of money at them.


Yeah, don't do that.  Their Dead Island games on PC are some of the buggiest games ever.
 
2013-12-12 10:34:49 AM  

Kyosuke: scottydoesntknow: Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

I don't know what they make, but that letter alone makes me want to throw a bunch of money at them.


Publisher of game, if you throw money at them aim for Saint's Row IV or Metro: Last Light and not Ride to Hell: Retribution (of which there were multiple videos of showing how bad it is).
 
2013-12-12 10:37:13 AM  

Glitchwerks: Kyosuke: scottydoesntknow: Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

I don't know what they make, but that letter alone makes me want to throw a bunch of money at them.

Yeah, don't do that.  Their Dead Island games on PC are some of the buggiest games ever.


Saints Row is pretty fun if you don't make any comparisons to GTA whatsoever.

Haven't played the Metro series, but I've heard they're pretty good.

And while Dead Island's gameplay did suck (and thanks to those video reviews that showed how glitchy it was) they did have one of the best trailers for it, as well as a badass live-action recreation of it.
 
2013-12-12 10:37:40 AM  

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror


Well, we are lazy enough to watch other people play baseball and guitar for us right now.
 
2013-12-12 10:38:12 AM  

Cubicle Jockey: Has the law been settled one way or the other on whether video games are "transformative" works, and play-throughs are covered under fair use?


I'm not sure I understand the first part of your question - the video game is the work, the question would be whether a play through video is transformative of the original or merely a copy or public performance.
 
2013-12-12 10:39:38 AM  

Gunderson: fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror

Well, we are lazy enough to watch other people play baseball and guitar for us right now.


I just read Golly music
 
2013-12-12 10:41:22 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: Even then Fair Use would not likely cover the Let's Play videos that show the majority of the game.


Yeah, it'd be like showing an entire movie with some added commentary, and claiming that you're merely reviewing it.

tiffanysinnerthoughts.files.wordpress.com
/and no, MST3k wasn't safe, which is why RiffTrax must be synced by the consumer.
 
2013-12-12 10:43:49 AM  
As much as I'd like Egoraptor to get back to his Sequelitis series... not like this. This just isn't cool, man.
 
2013-12-12 10:45:24 AM  

scottydoesntknow: And while Dead Island's gameplay did suck (and thanks to those video reviews that showed how glitchy it was) they did have one of the best trailers for it, as well as a badass live-action recreation of it.


i just don't get people that say that.  while the AI was pretty terrible (zombies will just run right by you sometimes, or stick to walls) the actual gameplay was pretty great, the combat is visceral and fun and the rpg-lite stuff is cool.

love that damn game.
 
2013-12-12 10:47:00 AM  

doglover: nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?

Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"


That would make more sense.  Case in point:  I kept hearing about this Minecraft thing, so I watched one of those "how to survive the first day" type videos and said yep, I'm buying this thing.
 
2013-12-12 10:50:35 AM  

tallen702: scottydoesntknow:

Pretty much every game company is denouncing this. They sound pretty upset too. Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

Yeah, I read about that yesterday when this started coming up. There was speculation that either someone is spamming youtube with take-down requests, or that youtube/google is testing a new algorithm  for future copyright lawsuit protection, but now it seems like someone is trying to capitalize on being a troll of some sort.

Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.


Nah, I think this is just someone's bad idea of a joke.
 
2013-12-12 10:52:53 AM  

scottydoesntknow: And while Dead Island's gameplay did suck (and thanks to those video reviews that showed how glitchy it was) they did have one of the best trailers for it, as well as a badass live-action recreation of it.


I actually liked the gameplay!  I thought it was one of those games that was pretty awful and full of bad design choices, but strangely fun.  I liked exploring the island, despite the very tedious nature of it.

However, the game just doesn't farking run on my PC.  At all.  I had to go to the 360 to play it.

Don't sell games that don't work is my number one motto, and if you can't do that, at least release the code so the PC community can fix it for you.

If you can't do either of those things, you will never get my money again.
 
2013-12-12 10:53:38 AM  

snake_beater: Nah, I think this is just someone's bad idea of a joke.


Yeah, I think so too. Google should just stick to April Fool's.
 
2013-12-12 10:53:53 AM  

meanmutton: tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.


Like those porn trolls that look for torrent downloads and offer like $5k so they don't publish what you were downloading.
 
2013-12-12 10:54:08 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Glitchwerks: Kyosuke: scottydoesntknow: Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

I don't know what they make, but that letter alone makes me want to throw a bunch of money at them.

Yeah, don't do that.  Their Dead Island games on PC are some of the buggiest games ever.

Saints Row is pretty fun if you don't make any comparisons to GTA whatsoever.

Haven't played the Metro series, but I've heard they're pretty good.


In all fairness, the Metro series was pretty much built off-premise by 4A games and THQ. Deep silver just picked it up at the fire-sale. Mind you, they did have every opportunity to really fark around with "Last Light" before its release, but they refrained from doing so and essentially published 4A's main body of work without alteration.

And yes, the Metro series is very good. It's proof that you don't need to be open-world "sandbox" oriented to still tell a compelling and connected story. Metro: 2033 is the better of the two games in the series, but last-light is still very good and very immersive, which is what you want a story to be. Especially if it's a chilling/frightening one. There  are plenty of nice little hidden areas Last Light despite it being linear. I just about shiat a brick when I realized I'd walked into Lenin's tomb without realizing it. Haven't been able to find it again in other playthroughs. And yes, that's how good the games are. You want to play them more than once to find all the little things you missed the first time (or couple of times) through.

Also, their live-action trailers/films were legitimately awesome for Last Light.
 
2013-12-12 10:57:34 AM  

Glitchwerks: However, the game just doesn't farking run on my PC. At all. I had to go to the 360 to play it.

Don't sell games that don't work is my number one motto, and if you can't do that, at least release the code so the PC community can fix it for you.


I have installed Dead Island on multiple computers.  No issue running it, even on an older machine with an old radeon x1650 card.

fix your pc, don't blame the game.
 
2013-12-12 11:06:51 AM  

frepnog: Glitchwerks: However, the game just doesn't farking run on my PC. At all. I had to go to the 360 to play it.

Don't sell games that don't work is my number one motto, and if you can't do that, at least release the code so the PC community can fix it for you.

I have installed Dead Island on multiple computers.  No issue running it, even on an older machine with an old radeon x1650 card.

fix your pc, don't blame the game.


You are the exception to the rule.  I'm glad you liked it, but you're in the minority.  Almost everyone else was disappointed with the game.  There are plenty of examples of people whose computers are just fine where Dead Island didn't work for shiat.  I don't need to "fix my PC".  Dead Island is one of two games out of 350 that doesn't work for beans with my 660ti.  If 348 games work, and 2 don't, the problem is not "my PC".
 
2013-12-12 11:07:03 AM  
fta: "When you rely on one site alone for income, any policy change can instantly destroy you."

This is why I have always been and always will be mistrustful of the cloud.
 
2013-12-12 11:07:52 AM  

frepnog: I have installed Dead Island on multiple computers.  No issue running it, even on an older machine with an old radeon x1650 card.

fix your pc, don't blame the game.


My PC is well over the minimum specs, and I'm not the only one with this problem as the Steam community forum has more than a few people who are unable to play the game at all, and none of the fixes work.
 
2013-12-12 11:09:38 AM  
Could be that now that Gooooogle is a huge corporation, there is somewhat less control over what certain individuals choose to do. Could be that some some New Broom manager is making a name for himself or some Budding Genius has invented an algorithm that automates sticking it to people in the name of some heretofore wisely unenforced legal technicality. Then again, it could be that Goooooogle isn't being paid enough to hand out this free publicity to game publishers.
 
2013-12-12 11:15:05 AM  
Why the hell would anyone buy Dead Island in the first place? It looked terrible!

Were you actually fooled by that teaser trailer?
 
2013-12-12 11:16:50 AM  

Inquisitive Inquisitor: If 348 games work, and 2 don't, the problem is not "my PC".


not really.  i am currently fighting with Lego MSH.  That game crashes repeatedly on my PC.  It is one hundred percent my PC causing the issue, but I also have zero issues running any other game in my Steam account.  Right now, I can not get the original release of Doom 3 to run on my main machine.  It used to run.  My other games run.  Doom 3 refuses.  It is one hundred percent MY machine causing the issue, not the game.

so sorry, but just because your PC can run every other game on the market doesn't mean that the issue with the ONE game that you can't seem to get running isn't one hundred percent caused by your PC.
 
2013-12-12 11:18:34 AM  

ZeroCorpse: Why the hell would anyone buy Dead Island in the first place? It looked terrible


the combat is fun, the upgrade system and crafting system is fun, the exploration of the island is fun, the graphics are pretty great, the game can be genuinely scary and pulse pounding.

it isn't perfect, but it is the best zombie survival game out there, by a LARGE margin.
 
2013-12-12 11:22:29 AM  
Oh look. The "thank everything that's cute and cuddly, Google is finally killing BooHooTube" thread has transformed into 101 reasons Dead Island doesn't suck.

Look, it's a great game. On my first play-through I got knocked off a bridge about 20% of the way through the game and ended up reloading at some random point about 80% of the way through the game. The second play-through saw me lose 5 hours of play after building something which caused a CTD which left me with a corrupt save.

The 3rd play-through has yet to be finished because... endlessly repetitive...
 
2013-12-12 11:25:10 AM  
Nope, mine are all still up. Then again, I acknowledged that I was using third party content as soon as Youtube hit me with their copyright stuff.

/and most of my videos are Nintendo games
//Nintendo appreciates free publicity :)
 
2013-12-12 11:29:38 AM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: On my first play-through I got knocked off a bridge about 20% of the way through the game and ended up reloading at some random point about 80% of the way through the game. The second play-through saw me lose 5 hours of play after building something which caused a CTD which left me with a corrupt save.


ya, my save file was corrupted once.  lost an 80 some-odd percent playthru.  oh well, shiat happens.
 
2013-12-12 11:31:22 AM  

IlGreven: meanmutton: tallen702:
Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

From the letter above, this is my guess: Someone is going around filing these copyright notices on Youtube to try to scam some of the revenue that Let's Play, etc., are pulling in.

...the DMCA has been used to prosecute thousands of copyright claims.  There's a provision in the DMCA for prosecuting those who file false reports. You wanna guess how many people have been prosecuted for filing a false DMCA report?  I'll give you a hint: It rhymes with "not a damned one".  And as long as that's the case, any sort of "fix" of the DMCA or YouTube policies is moot.  And as long as the MPAA and the RIAA have their say, that will continue to be the case.


Ninety million and one?
 
2013-12-12 11:34:51 AM  
two words:  Dailymotion, Vimeo.

Who said Youtube was the only game in town?
 
2013-12-12 11:35:28 AM  
From what I understand (which may be wrong), it's the system that's been cobbled together over the years that's doing the take-downs. Not in an evil "Sky-Net is taking over the world" way but more like an "Agent Smith is buggy and multiplying out of control" sort of way.
 
2013-12-12 11:36:10 AM  

frepnog: ZeroCorpse: Why the hell would anyone buy Dead Island in the first place? It looked terrible

the combat is fun, the upgrade system and crafting system is fun, the exploration of the island is fun, the graphics are pretty great, the game can be genuinely scary and pulse pounding.

it isn't perfect, but it is the best zombie survival game out there, by a LARGE margin.


You don't seem to mind some technical issues in your games if you enjoy Dead Island that much.  You should check out State of Decay, it's awesome*.

*well it's a bit glitchy and isn't graphically impressive at all, but it's fun
 
2013-12-12 11:36:33 AM  
The game companies are offended because they can't bribe the LPers into giving their game a positive review.
 
2013-12-12 11:38:44 AM  

snake_beater: tallen702: scottydoesntknow:

Pretty much every game company is denouncing this. They sound pretty upset too. Here's a letter from Deep Silver about it:

Yeah, I read about that yesterday when this started coming up. There was speculation that either someone is spamming youtube with take-down requests, or that youtube/google is testing a new algorithm  for future copyright lawsuit protection, but now it seems like someone is trying to capitalize on being a troll of some sort.

Wonder if it's a last-ditch effort to cash in on copyright/patent trolling before that kind of thing gets shut down in the near future.

Nah, I think this is just someone's bad idea of a joke.


I'm gonna have to disagree. Think of it. Use some sort of algorithm or bot to make a metric shiat-ton of copyright claims. So many that some are bound to fall on deaf ears/defunct users. Then, even though most will be reversed since you actually don't own any of that content, some of them will just go along with it. Then, you agree to let it stay up, but for a part of the adsense revenue, or demand a cut of the revenue up to that point. Profit.
 
2013-12-12 11:39:31 AM  
Remember, the Google AI has the intelligence of a cocker spaniel, roughly on par with an overworked intern.
 
2013-12-12 11:43:35 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: You don't seem to mind some technical issues in your games if you enjoy Dead Island that much.


the game doesn't crash that often and I have an INCREDIBLE amount of fun just exploring the island, which is mostly what I play those games for anyway.  I tend to create my own narratives when I play open world games and tend to put hundreds of hours in them.  hell, between Oblivion, Skyrim and Dead Island, I am certain I have over 500 hours easy.
 
2013-12-12 11:45:21 AM  
Twitch is better anyway
 
2013-12-12 11:47:23 AM  
Well, all good things must come to an end. Time to find YouTube's replacement. I'm honestly surprised there isn't already competition out there.
 
2013-12-12 11:48:30 AM  

Electric_Banana: The game companies are offended because they can't bribe the LPers into giving their game a positive review.


RTFA. The game companies LIKE LPers and the attention their games receive. It's Youtube that has the issue.
 
2013-12-12 11:51:49 AM  

Electric_Banana: The game companies are offended because they can't bribe the LPers into giving their game a positive review.


The savaging the LP community gave Beyond: Two Souls was beautiful.
 
2013-12-12 11:56:06 AM  

doczoidberg: Well, all good things must come to an end. Time to find YouTube's replacement. I'm honestly surprised there isn't already competition out there.


Of course there is.  Vimeo, Blip, Twitch.TV (for gaming content specifically), DailyMotion, etc.  Unfortunately, none of them have the visibility of YouTube, so if you want to make money doing this or just want as many people as possible to see your work, Youtube is probably the best option.
 
2013-12-12 11:58:01 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-12 11:58:07 AM  

kenshin5435: Twitch is better anyway


This. Better to watch them fail in real time, watch some guy yell at his mom for coming in while he's streaming, hear expletive filled rants, and actually be able to interact with the people, ask them questions,

I know way too damn much about Symphony of the Night now, and I've never played the game.
 
2013-12-12 11:59:57 AM  

comslave: two words:  Dailymotion, Vimeo.

Who said Youtube was the only game in town?


Vimeo has been hunting down LPers for a while.
 
2013-12-12 12:13:51 PM  

HeartBurnKid: doczoidberg: Well, all good things must come to an end. Time to find YouTube's replacement. I'm honestly surprised there isn't already competition out there.

Of course there is.  Vimeo, Blip, Twitch.TV (for gaming content specifically), DailyMotion, etc.  Unfortunately, none of them have the visibility of YouTube, so if you want to make money doing this or just want as many people as possible to see your work, Youtube is probably the best option.



I'm pretty sure they don't let just anybody post on Blip.

But here's to hoping something comes of Vimeo.
 
2013-12-12 12:21:37 PM  
I can't tell if LP pioneer Slowbeef is cackling wickedly at seeing superstar LPers fall or cursing that he won't be able to do a Retsupurae of anything outside terrible flash games.
 
2013-12-12 12:26:05 PM  

nekom: That would make more sense. Case in point: I kept hearing about this Minecraft thing, so I watched one of those "how to survive the first day" type videos and said yep, I'm buying this thing.



Same here. I watched the vids of Rust last night(it just came out on Steam yesterday) and I'm going to buy it this weekend. Without YouTube I'm not sure I'd even bother.

I've got 8-10 games that I'd watched on YT before I bought them. Seems to me the game companies would want those vids on there because they help sell games.
 
2013-12-12 12:33:11 PM  

Theaetetus: Lumbar Puncture: Even then Fair Use would not likely cover the Let's Play videos that show the majority of the game.

Yeah, it'd be like showing an entire movie with some added commentary, and claiming that you're merely reviewing it.

[tiffanysinnerthoughts.files.wordpress.com image 850x269]
/and no, MST3k wasn't safe, which is why RiffTrax must be synced by the consumer.


MST3K wasn't fair use, they paid for rebroadcast rights for every film they showed. They even spoke of how hard it became in later seasons finding rights holders who were willing to let them riff on the flicks.
 
2013-12-12 12:34:24 PM  

YodaBlues: MST3K wasn't fair use...


Yes, that's what I said.
 
2013-12-12 12:54:37 PM  
My son is big on Let's Play style uploads. I'd hate to see that get taken... he's really gotten quite good with voiceover things and it's helped him do better at public presentation.
 
2013-12-12 12:56:54 PM  

Ishkur: fta: "When you rely on one site alone for income, any policy change can instantly destroy you."

This is why I have always been and always will be mistrustful of the cloud.


Good point.
 
2013-12-12 12:58:22 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Nope, mine are all still up. Then again, I acknowledged that I was using third party content as soon as Youtube hit me with their copyright stuff.

/and most of my videos are Nintendo games
//Nintendo appreciates free publicity :)


They also appreciate the ad revenue from the ads they put on your videos for you. I also have several crappy Nintendo videos on my channel. I haven't monetized anything I've ever uploaded, but the Nintendo videos are plastered with ads courtesy of The Big N waving its Copyright Boner around.
 
2013-12-12 01:00:36 PM  
One of the Let's Play Minecraft videos was simply mesmerizing. I think I watched like 6 hours of that guy play Minecraft.

Still can't explain it, but they're interesting to me.
 
2013-12-12 01:01:17 PM  

nekom: doglover: nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?

Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"

That would make more sense.  Case in point:  I kept hearing about this Minecraft thing, so I watched one of those "how to survive the first day" type videos and said yep, I'm buying this thing.


The Minecraft let's play vids are what re-kindled my interest in the game after putting it down for a few months. Currently enjoying vids from guys on the Mindcrack server.
 
2013-12-12 01:02:19 PM  
I've purchased several games after watching Let's Plays and reviews on YouTube. I think it's been about 10 games since the summer that had Youtube as the deciding factor.

A little while ago I went to my GF's sister's wedding. I took video including video from my 3D camera. I went to upload the videos for the family including the 3D videos since Youtube has built in support for 3D. Anyway, the video of the daddy-daughter dance got auto flagged and muted because of the song playing. It's not like this would be any sort of replacement for purchasing an album or song or anything.

The system tells you that your video is flagged and why. After that it gives you a chance to respond with several options from a drop down list to choose for why you think the video shouldn't be flagged. Every single option, once selected, was met with an automated "no you dumb bastard you're just not allowed to to it at all" type message. It's like they're just farking with you. I didn't notice any option to send the video for review with an actual person. Auto detect a song, auto mute, nothing you can do. For a daddy-daughter dance at a wedding.

How are people able to upload songs, albums, movies, etc and get around the detection system?
 
2013-12-12 01:04:01 PM  

basscomm: The My Little Pony Killer: Nope, mine are all still up. Then again, I acknowledged that I was using third party content as soon as Youtube hit me with their copyright stuff.

/and most of my videos are Nintendo games
//Nintendo appreciates free publicity :)

They also appreciate the ad revenue from the ads they put on your videos for you. I also have several crappy Nintendo videos on my channel. I haven't monetized anything I've ever uploaded, but the Nintendo videos are plastered with ads courtesy of The Big N waving its Copyright Boner around.


I've made it clear on my videos, when I found out Nintendo was slapping ads on them, that I did not monetize my account and that I don't care either way if they decide to use ad-block plus or not. If viewers would like to further support Nintendo, good for them. If they don't, it's no skin off my back.

/don't notice the ads myself
//did I mention ad-block plus yet?
 
2013-12-12 01:09:04 PM  
So this is just over zealous copyright assholes doing one last dance to impress the boss for a Christmas bonus?
 
2013-12-12 01:11:10 PM  
If this shuts down Pewdiepie and his stupid channel then I'm all for it
 
2013-12-12 01:16:18 PM  

Begoggle: If this shuts down Pewdiepie and his stupid channel then I'm all for it


Conversely, if this shuts down the Achievement Hunter Let's Play channel, I'm staunchly against it.
 
2013-12-12 01:25:04 PM  

AdamK: it only really bothers me if people who aren't making money get their stuff taken down


And why is that?
 
2013-12-12 01:31:30 PM  

frepnog: scottydoesntknow: And while Dead Island's gameplay did suck (and thanks to those video reviews that showed how glitchy it was) they did have one of the best trailers for it, as well as a badass live-action recreation of it.

i just don't get people that say that.  while the AI was pretty terrible (zombies will just run right by you sometimes, or stick to walls) the actual gameplay was pretty great, the combat is visceral and fun and the rpg-lite stuff is cool.

love that damn game.


It's weird. It's buggy and can be annoying but the combat is still fun. As a single player game I probably wouldn't have bothered but in co-op, it's a hell of a lot of fun. I'm currently playing Riptide in co-op with my gf and apart from being frustrated at some of the bugs, I'm really enjoying it.
 
2013-12-12 01:35:32 PM  

commisioner: apart from being frustrated at some of the bugs


the worst bug that I encountered while playing Dead Island was better than the best day I ever had at work.
 
2013-12-12 01:39:44 PM  

Warlordtrooper: fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror

Meh, no person has the time or money to play every single game out there.  I'm not going to spend 500 dollars to buy a new xbox just to play the next halo games.


Yeah and if you're an Xbox person, there's really no way to ever experience Last Of Us, which everyone should.
 
2013-12-12 01:40:50 PM  

eyeq360: How else am I going to see DeceasedCrab struggle with La Mulana or ProtonJon curse so eloquently at Kaizo Mario?


Lol I love that game.  Beating it was almost as great a high as beating dark souls
 
2013-12-12 01:43:25 PM  
I would weep if we lost Gopher's vids.
 
2013-12-12 01:45:17 PM  

frepnog: commisioner: apart from being frustrated at some of the bugs

the worst bug that I encountered while playing Dead Island was better than the best day I ever had at work.


Damn straight. The worst one I've hit is floating about a foot over the ground. Over a downward slope, the zombies where able to reach up and smack me and I couldn't hit them. Annoying, but no reason to quit. Just reloaded a save and carried on my way.
 
2013-12-12 01:54:08 PM  
I'll admit I use LPers to find good indie games or the lesser heard games. If I know a game is terrible, I just watch them to see how bad the game gets. While I don't watch Pewdiepie, all of his fans constantly request everything to him in great numbers. So the only credit I'll give him is increasing my awareness of games, not for his method of entertainment.

When it comes to actually watching LPs, I prefer Cryaotic or Markiplier.  Of course, the LPers from the SomethingAwful field are often more professional like ChipCheezum or supergreatfriend.
 
2013-12-12 01:54:26 PM  

dehehn: there's really no way to ever experience Last Of Us, which everyone should.


one day, I play to replace my PS3 just to play that game, but honestly I am holding out for a PS4 re-do.
 
2013-12-12 02:07:53 PM  

IlGreven: I'll give you a hint: It rhymes with "not a damned one".


I have the cheese runs? That rhymes, right?
 
2013-12-12 02:10:25 PM  

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror


All I know is that if this takes those dodgy Brit bronies with their endless Minecraft vids off the intrawebs, my son will be heartbroken. I, on the other hand, will have one fewer creepy vibes in my environment.
 
2013-12-12 02:10:28 PM  
Reviewing games and showing viewers how to play and successful strategies is a valuable resource for gamers and free advertising for game companies. If the YouTube poster manages to make a few bucks doing the work - even turning it into a full time job - so much the better. If the poster makes a product that is valuable to his audience and the game manufacturers why shouldn't he/she get paid? Quality content deserves compensation and figuring out not only how to produce the content but how to get paid for it isn't easy. If Google and/or YouTube are sending out takedown notices, copyright claims or warnings by way of an algorithm that's shoddy work. If Google wants YouTube to be nothing but  cat videos and people falling off their skateboards that's their business but please quit buying websites and destroying them.
 
2013-12-12 02:11:24 PM  

frepnog: Lumbar Puncture: You don't seem to mind some technical issues in your games if you enjoy Dead Island that much.

the game doesn't crash that often and I have an INCREDIBLE amount of fun just exploring the island, which is mostly what I play those games for anyway.  I tend to create my own narratives when I play open world games and tend to put hundreds of hours in them.  hell, between Oblivion, Skyrim and Dead Island, I am certain I have over 500 hours easy.


That's why I recommend State of Decay.  It doesn't crash or corrupt saves or anything like that but it's a bit rough.  If Dead Island wasn't an issue for you, you'd probably love State of Decay.
 
2013-12-12 02:13:42 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: frepnog: Lumbar Puncture: You don't seem to mind some technical issues in your games if you enjoy Dead Island that much.

the game doesn't crash that often and I have an INCREDIBLE amount of fun just exploring the island, which is mostly what I play those games for anyway.  I tend to create my own narratives when I play open world games and tend to put hundreds of hours in them.  hell, between Oblivion, Skyrim and Dead Island, I am certain I have over 500 hours easy.

That's why I recommend State of Decay.  It doesn't crash or corrupt saves or anything like that but it's a bit rough.  If Dead Island wasn't an issue for you, you'd probably love State of Decay.


I second State of Decay, on top of being a fun game, their Community Director is awesome and engaging.
 
2013-12-12 02:14:39 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: frepnog: Lumbar Puncture: You don't seem to mind some technical issues in your games if you enjoy Dead Island that much.

the game doesn't crash that often and I have an INCREDIBLE amount of fun just exploring the island, which is mostly what I play those games for anyway.  I tend to create my own narratives when I play open world games and tend to put hundreds of hours in them.  hell, between Oblivion, Skyrim and Dead Island, I am certain I have over 500 hours easy.

That's why I recommend State of Decay.  It doesn't crash or corrupt saves or anything like that but it's a bit rough.  If Dead Island wasn't an issue for you, you'd probably love State of Decay.


DeathByGeekSquad: Lumbar Puncture: frepnog: Lumbar Puncture: You don't seem to mind some technical issues in your games if you enjoy Dead Island that much.

the game doesn't crash that often and I have an INCREDIBLE amount of fun just exploring the island, which is mostly what I play those games for anyway.  I tend to create my own narratives when I play open world games and tend to put hundreds of hours in them.  hell, between Oblivion, Skyrim and Dead Island, I am certain I have over 500 hours easy.

That's why I recommend State of Decay.  It doesn't crash or corrupt saves or anything like that but it's a bit rough.  If Dead Island wasn't an issue for you, you'd probably love State of Decay.

I second State of Decay, on top of being a fun game, their Community Director is awesome and engaging.


Have you guys tried Project Zomboid? I got it on Steam the other day. Very rough as well but engaging and actually pretty farking hard.
 
kab
2013-12-12 02:18:10 PM  

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?


We've made a pasttime of watching other people play sports for us, so the answer is a resounding yes.
 
2013-12-12 02:26:58 PM  
As much as I understand the snowball ramifications for this sort of precedent, and I ain't no lawyer or judge or nothin', but it's hard for me to view many of these Let's Play videos--particularly the ones done by people like DarkSydePhil, which are just mass-produced garbage where he's talking over the copyrighted content--as nothing more than content wrapping.  The low-quality LP authors are no better than BuzzFeed.
 
2013-12-12 02:38:40 PM  

doglover: nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?

Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"


Really? I guess Failtendo threatening to drag them into court had nothing to do with it. Old news is old.....
 
2013-12-12 02:39:26 PM  

red5ish: Reviewing games and showing viewers how to play and successful strategies is a valuable resource for gamers and free advertising for game companies. If the YouTube poster manages to make a few bucks doing the work - even turning it into a full time job - so much the better. If the poster makes a product that is valuable to his audience and the game manufacturers why shouldn't he/she get paid? Quality content deserves compensation and figuring out not only how to produce the content but how to get paid for it isn't easy. If Google and/or YouTube are sending out takedown notices, copyright claims or warnings by way of an algorithm that's shoddy work. If Google wants YouTube to be nothing but  cat videos and people falling off their skateboards that's their business but please quit buying websites and destroying them.


Because their work relies on content that they didn't create and aren't offering any compensation for to the original creators of and never received authorization to use.  Clips, parodies, etc are fair use but there are a lot of videos which show entire games from beginning to end.  Youtube's algorithm is overzealous and they'll hopefully scale it back a bit, but making a living putting commentary tracks on the work of another person is kind of shiatty.
 
2013-12-12 02:40:10 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: doglover: nekom: Seems to me that if I produced a game, I would want people watching let's play videos.  Free advertising.  What exactly is their objection?

Looks like it's not the game companies. Capcom is investigating "false flags"


It's the licensed music that is being auto-dinged by Google's new checker that is the problem.

The site can't differentiate between music played as BGM (no violation) and music that is a ripped OST (violation), so it is flagging Let's Play videos.


Wrong. See my previous post.
 
2013-12-12 02:44:09 PM  

frepnog: the actual gameplay was pretty great


Said no one, ever, who had item after item after item disappear at the crafting table.
 
2013-12-12 03:00:51 PM  

WizardofToast: I'll admit I use LPers to find good indie games or the lesser heard games. If I know a game is terrible, I just watch them to see how bad the game gets. While I don't watch Pewdiepie, all of his fans constantly request everything to him in great numbers. So the only credit I'll give him is increasing my awareness of games, not for his method of entertainment.

When it comes to actually watching LPs, I prefer Cryaotic or Markiplier.  Of course, the LPers from the SomethingAwful field are often more professional like ChipCheezum or supergreatfriend.


One of my personal favorite LP moments was when DeceasedCrab was LP'ing various "Knytt Stories" mods, and then persuaded ProtonJon to do a blind playthrough of the "Don't Eat The Mushroom" mod.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

/parts 1 and 3 are very short
 
2013-12-12 03:07:10 PM  

extroverted_suicide: frepnog: the actual gameplay was pretty great

Said no one, ever, who had item after item after item disappear at the crafting table.


never had that happen to me, personally.  lost a few thrown items.
 
2013-12-12 03:09:50 PM  

frepnog: extroverted_suicide: frepnog: the actual gameplay was pretty great

Said no one, ever, who had item after item after item disappear at the crafting table.

never had that happen to me, personally.  lost a few thrown items.


That happened to me all the time, but I did play the thrown weapons guy so I did throw knives off into the bushes quite a bit.

I did have fun playing that guy, though. Was sort of awesome to do it just right and throw your purple knife right into a sprinting zombie's face and then rip it out and keep going.
 
2013-12-12 03:26:39 PM  

frepnog: extroverted_suicide: frepnog: the actual gameplay was pretty great

Said no one, ever, who had item after item after item disappear at the crafting table.

never had that happen to me, personally.  lost a few thrown items.


Can't say I've ever had that issue either. But then I usually go for blunt force trauma.
 
2013-12-12 03:38:17 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: red5ish: Reviewing games and showing viewers how to play and successful strategies is a valuable resource for gamers and free advertising for game companies. If the YouTube poster manages to make a few bucks doing the work - even turning it into a full time job - so much the better. If the poster makes a product that is valuable to his audience and the game manufacturers why shouldn't he/she get paid? Quality content deserves compensation and figuring out not only how to produce the content but how to get paid for it isn't easy. If Google and/or YouTube are sending out takedown notices, copyright claims or warnings by way of an algorithm that's shoddy work. If Google wants YouTube to be nothing but  cat videos and people falling off their skateboards that's their business but please quit buying websites and destroying them.

Because their work relies on content that they didn't create and aren't offering any compensation for to the original creators of and never received authorization to use.  Clips, parodies, etc are fair use but there are a lot of videos which show entire games from beginning to end.  Youtube's algorithm is overzealous and they'll hopefully scale it back a bit, but making a living putting commentary tracks on the work of another person is kind of shiatty.


I agree that putting commentary tracks over an entire game is crossing the line - particularly if the game is of the sort that offers only a limited number of solutions. I would have thought that the game manufacturers would themselves take action against that kind of BS. I was thinking more about strategies used in RTS games, or how to live through this level type videos. I have to wonder why anyone would want to watch an entire game being played by someone else. Or how the video maker could monetize that.
 
2013-12-12 03:47:50 PM  

tricycleracer: Francis is going to freak.


I like his videos better when he's not that character. He's actually a smart, well spoken guy. But yeah I think he covered this already.
 
2013-12-12 03:50:08 PM  

PanicMan: tricycleracer: Francis is going to freak.

I like his videos better when he's not that character. He's actually a smart, well spoken guy. But yeah I think he covered this already.


I found out about that guy through Fark, so thanks for that you Farkers. Seriously, thanks.
 
2013-12-12 03:58:34 PM  
Definitely a bookmark for some Let's Play goodness.

Also, Retsupurae is often quite funny
 
2013-12-12 04:03:47 PM  

tricycleracer: Francis is going to freak.


He really should lighten up.
 
2013-12-12 04:10:18 PM  

FoxEWolf: End Machinima + PewDiePie,, but keep Game Grumps + AVGN. They at least have entertaining commentary and review a range of games instead of biased and promoted reviews.


I can't wait for James' take on Sonic 2006 on Monday.
 
2013-12-12 04:15:32 PM  
Oh, and Anthony Burch playing 30 minutes of Saints Row 4 is why SR 3 and 4 is on my Christmas list.
 
2013-12-12 04:16:37 PM  
If they go after any of the Two Best Friends videos I'll choke a biatch.  Love those guys.


img.fark.net
 
2013-12-12 04:17:27 PM  

red5ish: Lumbar Puncture: red5ish: Reviewing games and showing viewers how to play and successful strategies is a valuable resource for gamers and free advertising for game companies. If the YouTube poster manages to make a few bucks doing the work - even turning it into a full time job - so much the better. If the poster makes a product that is valuable to his audience and the game manufacturers why shouldn't he/she get paid? Quality content deserves compensation and figuring out not only how to produce the content but how to get paid for it isn't easy. If Google and/or YouTube are sending out takedown notices, copyright claims or warnings by way of an algorithm that's shoddy work. If Google wants YouTube to be nothing but  cat videos and people falling off their skateboards that's their business but please quit buying websites and destroying them.

Because their work relies on content that they didn't create and aren't offering any compensation for to the original creators of and never received authorization to use.  Clips, parodies, etc are fair use but there are a lot of videos which show entire games from beginning to end.  Youtube's algorithm is overzealous and they'll hopefully scale it back a bit, but making a living putting commentary tracks on the work of another person is kind of shiatty.

I agree that putting commentary tracks over an entire game is crossing the line - particularly if the game is of the sort that offers only a limited number of solutions. I would have thought that the game manufacturers would themselves take action against that kind of BS. I was thinking more about strategies used in RTS games, or how to live through this level type videos. I have to wonder why anyone would want to watch an entire game being played by someone else. Or how the video maker could monetize that.


Usually the reason is because the people themselves are interesting, or provide a conversation starter or continuance. It's the concept of shared experience. Like watching a movie with friends, rather than watching the movie themselves. Aside from Pewdiepie, a lot of the more successful LPers are either groups, or particularly interesting individuals. I'd watch Game Grumps play Barbie dream house (And did, in fact), because a lot of these people are not far from stand up comedians or entertainers. A lot of the LPs I've watched are either games that I've already played, or that I will never play.

Strat guides and Madden style commentary are different, but in the same realm. It's value added content, and honestly, there should be an argument that that's transformative. Would you watch half the movies that MST3K did, WITHOUT Mike (Or Joel) and the robots? Going to IMDB, often the rating between the episode and the movie is something like 6-7 points. Like so, I sure as hell wouldn't play Downpour, or Homecoming, but I've watched the Two Best Friends group play through it, and rather enjoyed the experience.
 
2013-12-12 04:18:44 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: If they go after any of the Two Best Friends videos I'll choke a biatch.  Love those guys.


[img.fark.net image 350x197]


Liam is mai Waifu.
 
2013-12-12 04:24:49 PM  

ScaryBottles: Wrong. See my previous post.



Please read the articles on this subject within the past couple of days. This is different then the problem you are describing from seven months ago. When you post a video, and have a tag made by a copyright holder, YouTube tells you who it is from. The people whom this has affected have specifically stated that it is music companies who are attached to the tags, not gaming companies.
 
2013-12-12 04:26:42 PM  

kab: We've made a pasttime of watching other people play sports for us, so the answer is a resounding yes.


Physical sports require training.

Modern video games require you to follow the blinking arrow to the next objective. press a few buttons, and watch a cinematic sequence. Sometimes you have to look at people and push a button to kill them. If you are not adept at looking at somone and pushing a button, you can turn the difficulty down so they won't even shoot while you are trying to look at them.

/Nobody watches walking as a sport.
//Because even one legged people can walk.
///Hell, some NO legged people can walk.
 
2013-12-12 05:00:07 PM  
 
kab
2013-12-12 05:02:11 PM  

fluffy2097: Physical sports require training.


They most certainly do not.   No training is needed for you to pick up a basketball and play a game with your friends.

Besides, skill level isn't the argument.   The point is that people watch other folks do things they're perfectly capable of doing themselves on *some* level, and video games are no different.    Hell, the entire porn industry is built on the concept.
 
2013-12-12 05:02:50 PM  

red5ish: I agree that putting commentary tracks over an entire game is crossing the line - particularly if the game is of the sort that offers only a limited number of solutions. I would have thought that the game manufacturers would themselves take action against that kind of BS. I was thinking more about strategies used in RTS games, or how to live through this level type videos. I have to wonder why anyone would want to watch an entire game being played by someone else. Or how the video maker could monetize that


There are a lot of people willing to.  It's not for me, I find it annoying as hell, but it's an existing audience.  How do they monetize it?  Ads.  Ad revenue alone on some of the people with 1mil+ views can make a person a decent amount of money.  There are Let's Play videos with 20 million views.  Strategies or ones that use specific clips are getting hurt because the algorithm is overly aggressive which sucks, so I hope they sort that out.

Kinek: Strat guides and Madden style commentary are different, but in the same realm. It's value added content, and honestly, there should be an argument that that's transformative. Would you watch half the movies that MST3K did, WITHOUT Mike (Or Joel) and the robots? Going to IMDB, often the rating between the episode and the movie is something like 6-7 points. Like so, I sure as hell wouldn't play Downpour, or Homecoming, but I've watched the Two Best Friends group play through it, and rather enjoyed the experience.


As mentioned, the MST3K people did pay for the rights for those movies to do their commentary.  LPers do not.  Regardless of the value added, it's still display the majority of a creative work that was created by another party with the intent of making money from it and if they don't have authorization from the publisher then it shouldn't be allowed.  Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.
 
2013-12-12 05:05:43 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.


Most of them don't even care then.  In fact, a lot of publishers have come out to say that they're not behind the YouTube DMCApocalypse, and they're willing to help the affected producers to sort things out with YouTube.
 
2013-12-12 05:09:23 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: How are people able to upload songs, albums, movies, etc and get around the detection system?


1. It doesn't work in real time, so a video can be up for weeks or months before it gets flagged.

2. Some copyright owners just take some of the money off the video as opposed to wanting it taken down.

3. Some copyright owners don't use the process or simply don't care so their material never even gets flagged.

4. It appears to be buggy as hell.
 
2013-12-12 05:11:21 PM  

ds_4815: Conversely, if this shuts down the Achievement Hunter Let's Play channel, I'm staunchly against it.


I wouldn't worry about it. They'll just end up hosting their videos on Blip with the rest of the RoosterTeeth videos!
 
2013-12-12 05:14:42 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: red5ish: Reviewing games and showing viewers how to play and successful strategies is a valuable resource for gamers and free advertising for game companies. If the YouTube poster manages to make a few bucks doing the work - even turning it into a full time job - so much the better. If the poster makes a product that is valuable to his audience and the game manufacturers why shouldn't he/she get paid? Quality content deserves compensation and figuring out not only how to produce the content but how to get paid for it isn't easy. If Google and/or YouTube are sending out takedown notices, copyright claims or warnings by way of an algorithm that's shoddy work. If Google wants YouTube to be nothing but  cat videos and people falling off their skateboards that's their business but please quit buying websites and destroying them.

Because their work relies on content that they didn't create and aren't offering any compensation for to the original creators of and never received authorization to use.  Clips, parodies, etc are fair use but there are a lot of videos which show entire games from beginning to end.  Youtube's algorithm is overzealous and they'll hopefully scale it back a bit, but making a living putting commentary tracks on the work of another person is kind of shiatty.


You know, I've never understood this aspect of how we look at intellectual property.  I mean, every single one of us monetizes something someone else made every single day.  I'm a sysadmin, and of all the programs I administrate, I wrote exactly one of them myself.  I make my living monetizing products from Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec, and a whole host of other companies.  It's a same for every other profession on Earth.  Your carpenter didn't design and make his own hammer, or chop down his own trees to make his own lumber.  Your plumber didn't invent the snake.  The local Mexican restaurant didn't come up with the idea of burritos out of whole cloth.  And yet, we look at transformative creative works (and yes, I put Let's Plays in that category, as well as music mashups and a whole host of other things) as something shameful, and something that people shouldn't be allowed to make money from.  Why?
 
2013-12-12 05:17:02 PM  
That's sad.  I never actually buy a game anymore unless I see someone else play it and discuss it first.  I may download a copy to tinker with, but I won't buy it.
 
2013-12-12 05:18:17 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Lumbar Puncture: Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.

Most of them don't even care then.  In fact, a lot of publishers have come out to say that they're not behind the YouTube DMCApocalypse, and they're willing to help the affected producers to sort things out with YouTube.


The problem is the game publishers probably don't own the music in their games; they just license it, and their license probably doesn't cover this situation.  If a music publisher wants to flag or take down a video of a video game Let's Play that is of a video game which has background music they own playing in the background, it is probably completely legal for them to do so.
 
2013-12-12 05:20:43 PM  

gadian: That's sad.  I never actually buy a game anymore unless I see someone else play it and discuss it first.  I may download a copy to tinker with, but I won't buy it.


Let's be honest here.
 
2013-12-12 05:21:32 PM  

HeartBurnKid: So, it turns out that Lets Players aren't the only ones who got caught in this net...



FTFA: "Game Critic Says Youtube Copyright Policy Threatens His Livelihood"

Sorry, cheeky guy with the very grandma-esque armoir behind you, but if you've based your entire livelihood on being a Youtube videogame critic and had no other fallback plan... Some mistakes were probably made.

From the video of the gentleman who shows the diversity of the word "f*ck":
"For years, Youtube made billions off the backs of people and now they're saying fark them".

Welcome to the real world, dude. People get fired/laid off/etc every day. Xerox laid off hundreds of people with armed police present at the scene a couple days ago, but yeah, your world is rocked because Youtube is doing what they damn well want with their website. These people are so angry, just find another outlet, or get a server and host your own videos. It isn't difficult, and if your livelihood depended on it, you should have taken steps to ensure that it isn't threatened like this.
 
2013-12-12 05:23:48 PM  

Geotpf: HeartBurnKid: Lumbar Puncture: Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.

Most of them don't even care then.  In fact, a lot of publishers have come out to say that they're not behind the YouTube DMCApocalypse, and they're willing to help the affected producers to sort things out with YouTube.

The problem is the game publishers probably don't own the music in their games; they just license it, and their license probably doesn't cover this situation.  If a music publisher wants to flag or take down a video of a video game Let's Play that is of a video game which has background music they own playing in the background, it is probably completely legal for them to do so.


Nope.  Youtube's system identifies who "made" the claim, and for many of these claims, it's the very companies that are denying it.
 
2013-12-12 05:24:15 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Lumbar Puncture: Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.

Most of them don't even care then.  In fact, a lot of publishers have come out to say that they're not behind the YouTube DMCApocalypse, and they're willing to help the affected producers to sort things out with YouTube.


Some of them are clarifying or adjusting their stance because of this, but this website has a chart of what companies are okay/not okay with of their content being monetized http://alloyseven.com/component/k2/item/115-monetize-gaming-videos many of the larger ones specifically have language against it, as is their right to do.

Youtube's response has so far been pretty poor though, as it doesn't seem like there's anything in place to prevent any company from making a claim that a video violates a copyright (even if they don't have a claim), or for a company to identify that they're cool with their content being used.
 
2013-12-12 05:25:58 PM  

RoxtarRyan: HeartBurnKid: So, it turns out that Lets Players aren't the only ones who got caught in this net...


FTFA: "Game Critic Says Youtube Copyright Policy Threatens His Livelihood"

Sorry, cheeky guy with the very grandma-esque armoir behind you, but if you've based your entire livelihood on being a Youtube videogame critic and had no other fallback plan... Some mistakes were probably made.

From the video of the gentleman who shows the diversity of the word "f*ck":
"For years, Youtube made billions off the backs of people and now they're saying fark them".

Welcome to the real world, dude. People get fired/laid off/etc every day. Xerox laid off hundreds of people with armed police present at the scene a couple days ago, but yeah, your world is rocked because Youtube is doing what they damn well want with their website. These people are so angry, just find another outlet, or get a server and host your own videos. It isn't difficult, and if your livelihood depended on it, you should have taken steps to ensure that it isn't threatened like this.


So do tell.  If your employer, or your biggest client if you're self employed, told you to go pound sand today, what would you do?
 
2013-12-12 05:32:04 PM  

HeartBurnKid: So do tell. If your employer, or your biggest client if you're self employed, told you to go pound sand today, what would you do?


Well, I have unemployment, an additional $1,200/month from working at a bar I can rely on, and worst case scenario, I can always volunteer for a deployment to kill a few months. Diversify, sucka! Get multiple skills that make you employable as hell, save some rainy day money, so in case anything does happen, you don't have to worry about it too much since you have a contingency plan.
 
2013-12-12 05:33:38 PM  

HeartBurnKid: You know, I've never understood this aspect of how we look at intellectual property. I mean, every single one of us monetizes something someone else made every single day. I'm a sysadmin, and of all the programs I administrate, I wrote exactly one of them myself. I make my living monetizing products from Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec, and a whole host of other companies. It's a same for every other profession on Earth. Your carpenter didn't design and make his own hammer, or chop down his own trees to make his own lumber. Your plumber didn't invent the snake. The local Mexican restaurant didn't come up with the idea of burritos out of whole cloth. And yet, we look at transformative creative works (and yes, I put Let's Plays in that category, as well as music mashups and a whole host of other things) as something shameful, and something that people shouldn't be allowed to make money from. Why?


Your company I assume pays you to write that code as part of your job.
Your company paid for the licenses from Microsoft and the others to use their software for business.
My carpenter bought his hammer, and the lumber he uses.
My plumber either purchased the snake or uses one paid for by his company.
The idea of a burrito isn't a copyrighted creation and is a bit of a stretch of an analogy.  My local Chipotle restaurant franchise pad McDonalds Corp to use their ingredients, likeness and menu though.

For all of those things compensation is paid for the usage of, if even it's a one time fee or an ongoing agreement.

Music mashups take content created by someone else and mixes it together, just like music sampling, whoever owns the rights to that content should be compensated.  Let's Plays don't pay for the content either, yet both of those things rely on someone else creating that content for them.

Does that make more sense?
 
2013-12-12 05:35:37 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Geotpf: HeartBurnKid: Lumbar Puncture: Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.

Most of them don't even care then.  In fact, a lot of publishers have come out to say that they're not behind the YouTube DMCApocalypse, and they're willing to help the affected producers to sort things out with YouTube.

The problem is the game publishers probably don't own the music in their games; they just license it, and their license probably doesn't cover this situation.  If a music publisher wants to flag or take down a video of a video game Let's Play that is of a video game which has background music they own playing in the background, it is probably completely legal for them to do so.

Nope.  Youtube's system identifies who "made" the claim, and for many of these claims, it's the very companies that are denying it.


Then it's those companys' fault for signing up with YouTube's bot-thingy in the first place.  The only real issue seems to be is that the bot seems to be working better/more agressively now.
 
2013-12-12 05:35:38 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: HeartBurnKid: You know, I've never understood this aspect of how we look at intellectual property. I mean, every single one of us monetizes something someone else made every single day. I'm a sysadmin, and of all the programs I administrate, I wrote exactly one of them myself. I make my living monetizing products from Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec, and a whole host of other companies. It's a same for every other profession on Earth. Your carpenter didn't design and make his own hammer, or chop down his own trees to make his own lumber. Your plumber didn't invent the snake. The local Mexican restaurant didn't come up with the idea of burritos out of whole cloth. And yet, we look at transformative creative works (and yes, I put Let's Plays in that category, as well as music mashups and a whole host of other things) as something shameful, and something that people shouldn't be allowed to make money from. Why?

Your company I assume pays you to write that code as part of your job.
Your company paid for the licenses from Microsoft and the others to use their software for business.
My carpenter bought his hammer, and the lumber he uses.
My plumber either purchased the snake or uses one paid for by his company.
The idea of a burrito isn't a copyrighted creation and is a bit of a stretch of an analogy.  My local Chipotle restaurant franchise pad McDonalds Corp to use their ingredients, likeness and menu though.

For all of those things compensation is paid for the usage of, if even it's a one time fee or an ongoing agreement.

Music mashups take content created by someone else and mixes it together, just like music sampling, whoever owns the rights to that content should be compensated.  Let's Plays don't pay for the content either, yet both of those things rely on someone else creating that content for them.

Does that make more sense?


And did they not buy that music?  Did they not buy those games?
 
2013-12-12 05:41:04 PM  

HeartBurnKid: And did they not buy that music? Did they not buy those games?


They bought copyright material for personal use.  I can't just buy a Stephen King book, add some comments at the beginning of each chapter and sell it as my own, or purchase Fast and Furious 6 and add a commentary track and sell it to stores.
 
2013-12-12 05:42:20 PM  

HeartBurnKid: And did they not buy that music? Did they not buy those games?


Buying a game doesn't automatically grant you rights for public use/demonstration, and the same goes for the music in the game.

/keep pushing those goalpasts, HBK
 
2013-12-12 05:44:36 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: HeartBurnKid: And did they not buy that music? Did they not buy those games?

They bought copyright material for personal use.  I can't just buy a Stephen King book, add some comments at the beginning of each chapter and sell it as my own, or purchase Fast and Furious 6 and add a commentary track and sell it to stores.


RoxtarRyan: HeartBurnKid: And did they not buy that music? Did they not buy those games?

Buying a game doesn't automatically grant you rights for public use/demonstration, and the same goes for the music in the game.

/keep pushing those goalpasts, HBK


You know, it's funny, but when I buy a hammer from Home Depot, nobody asks me if it's for personal use or commercial use.
 
2013-12-12 05:51:49 PM  

HeartBurnKid: You know, it's funny, but when I buy a hammer from Home Depot, nobody asks me if it's for personal use or commercial use.


Cool, how long ago was that created?  Copyright is a time limited arrangement to help protect creative material from being copied without the authorization of the creator or owner of the right to copy in order to promote new works without the fear of unauthorized distribution.  The limitations and scope can depend on the product, when it was created and the restriction on how it might be redistributed can be all subject to the owner of those rights.

If you have a problem with that existing, can't help you there.  But don't be intentionally dense with this hammer bullshiat.
 
2013-12-12 05:52:18 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: gadian: That's sad.  I never actually buy a game anymore unless I see someone else play it and discuss it first.  I may download a copy to tinker with, but I won't buy it.

Let's be honest here.


No, I actually do buy. Its easier than finding and slowly downloading a good torrent.
 
2013-12-12 05:55:32 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: HeartBurnKid: You know, it's funny, but when I buy a hammer from Home Depot, nobody asks me if it's for personal use or commercial use.

Cool, how long ago was that created?  Copyright is a time limited arrangement to help protect creative material from being copied without the authorization of the creator or owner of the right to copy in order to promote new works without the fear of unauthorized distribution.  The limitations and scope can depend on the product, when it was created and the restriction on how it might be redistributed can be all subject to the owner of those rights.

If you have a problem with that existing, can't help you there.  But don't be intentionally dense with this hammer bullshiat.


I'm not being intentionally dense.  I've already said that I object to the modern implementation of copyright.  You can't fall back on "but that's the law!" when my entire point is that the law doesn't reflect the way society works anymore and should be changed.  Not to even mention that Youtube's system goes far beyond the letter of the law in its overzealous enforcement.
 
2013-12-12 06:10:20 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: red5ish: I agree that putting commentary tracks over an entire game is crossing the line - particularly if the game is of the sort that offers only a limited number of solutions. I would have thought that the game manufacturers would themselves take action against that kind of BS. I was thinking more about strategies used in RTS games, or how to live through this level type videos. I have to wonder why anyone would want to watch an entire game being played by someone else. Or how the video maker could monetize that

There are a lot of people willing to.  It's not for me, I find it annoying as hell, but it's an existing audience.  How do they monetize it?  Ads.  Ad revenue alone on some of the people with 1mil+ views can make a person a decent amount of money.  There are Let's Play videos with 20 million views.  Strategies or ones that use specific clips are getting hurt because the algorithm is overly aggressive which sucks, so I hope they sort that out.

Kinek: Strat guides and Madden style commentary are different, but in the same realm. It's value added content, and honestly, there should be an argument that that's transformative. Would you watch half the movies that MST3K did, WITHOUT Mike (Or Joel) and the robots? Going to IMDB, often the rating between the episode and the movie is something like 6-7 points. Like so, I sure as hell wouldn't play Downpour, or Homecoming, but I've watched the Two Best Friends group play through it, and rather enjoyed the experience.

As mentioned, the MST3K people did pay for the rights for those movies to do their commentary.  LPers do not.  Regardless of the value added, it's still display the majority of a creative work that was created by another party with the intent of making money from it and if they don't have authorization from the publisher then it shouldn't be allowed.  Most publishers are more generous than movie studios, they don't care if you put a let's play video up, unless it's monetized.


I don't really care if they paid or not. The question is 'Is it transformative'. Not, 'Did their lawyers say you should pay the fee'.

I'd make the argument that the 'Majority' of the creative work for MST3k was the value added by the riffing crew. If I can, through my own efforts, take a work and recreate it or put it in such a context that it goes from unwatchable, to highly entertaining, then I'd say that that's transformative.
 
2013-12-12 06:10:46 PM  

HeartBurnKid: I'm not being intentionally dense. I've already said that I object to the modern implementation of copyright. You can't fall back on "but that's the law!" when my entire point is that the law doesn't reflect the way society works anymore and should be changed. Not to even mention that Youtube's system goes far beyond the letter of the law in its overzealous enforcement


Youtube is currently being overzealous.  The law does need to evolve as society does.

But my point was that creators should receive compensation for their work, your response was that you don't understand that and provided some terrible analogies.  A hammer and music are obviously not the same thing or held to the same restrictions even under the law because one if a physical object and the other is a creative work that.  Maybe if 3D printers were widely available and Home Depot had to be concerned that the hammer they sold you might get reprinted and sold for even cheaper or given out would hat point make sense, but currently it isn't analogous.

Video games are a collective creation of art and technology and someone putting a video up of a playthrough of the entire work without compensation while adding commentary over it and then making money from it I think is a shiatty move unless the publisher gives them permission to do so.  I think video games should have the same protection of other created works, and adding commentary does not make it something I'd consider transformative.

If you think that they shouldn't need to compensate them, then we simply disagree.  However I wonder how you would feel if you created a song, sold it, and then found out someone took it, mashed it up with another song, and was making money from it.  Maybe you wouldn't care.  If I spent my time and energy creating that, I would.
 
2013-12-12 06:11:26 PM  

RoxtarRyan: HeartBurnKid: So, it turns out that Lets Players aren't the only ones who got caught in this net...


FTFA: "Game Critic Says Youtube Copyright Policy Threatens His Livelihood"

Sorry, cheeky guy with the very grandma-esque armoir behind you, but if you've based your entire livelihood on being a Youtube videogame critic and had no other fallback plan... Some mistakes were probably made.

From the video of the gentleman who shows the diversity of the word "f*ck":
"For years, Youtube made billions off the backs of people and now they're saying fark them".

Welcome to the real world, dude. People get fired/laid off/etc every day. Xerox laid off hundreds of people with armed police present at the scene a couple days ago


Serves 'em right for basing their entire livelihood on being Xerox employees, right?
 
2013-12-12 06:15:08 PM  

HeartBurnKid: I've already said that I object to the modern implementation of copyright.


A lot of things I don't like either, but one thing I like is that it gives content creators the right to pick and choose if they want their stuff shown for free or not. If I put personal money into music/video/other media, and someone else started taking large chunks of my work, merely added commentary and made money off of it while I don't get a dime for the public performance, I'd be pissed off and want them to take it down too. And Youtube can go beyond the letter of the law if they want to.. it is their site, they can do what they want with it. If companies don't care, that's on them. But for companies who don't care for their stuff to be shown while not getting compensated for the public performance, they have the right to enforce the laws in place.
 
2013-12-12 06:19:25 PM  

Prometheus_Unbound: Serves 'em right for basing their entire livelihood on being Xerox employees, right?


They have options, like unemployment. Staking a living off of making off of making youtube commentary/critic videos isn't a rational way to ensure a steady income. It can be a quick buck, easy and fun, but if you plan on doing that as a full-time gig, buying a house, raising a family, etc, it doesn't make a lick of sense to have that be your primary source of income for the majority of people.
 
2013-12-12 06:21:54 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: HeartBurnKid: I'm not being intentionally dense. I've already said that I object to the modern implementation of copyright. You can't fall back on "but that's the law!" when my entire point is that the law doesn't reflect the way society works anymore and should be changed. Not to even mention that Youtube's system goes far beyond the letter of the law in its overzealous enforcement

Youtube is currently being overzealous.  The law does need to evolve as society does.

But my point was that creators should receive compensation for their work, your response was that you don't understand that and provided some terrible analogies.  A hammer and music are obviously not the same thing or held to the same restrictions even under the law because one if a physical object and the other is a creative work that.  Maybe if 3D printers were widely available and Home Depot had to be concerned that the hammer they sold you might get reprinted and sold for even cheaper or given out would hat point make sense, but currently it isn't analogous.

Video games are a collective creation of art and technology and someone putting a video up of a playthrough of the entire work without compensation while adding commentary over it and then making money from it I think is a shiatty move unless the publisher gives them permission to do so.  I think video games should have the same protection of other created works, and adding commentary does not make it something I'd consider transformative.

If you think that they shouldn't need to compensate them, then we simply disagree.  However I wonder how you would feel if you created a song, sold it, and then found out someone took it, mashed it up with another song, and was making money from it.  Maybe you wouldn't care.  If I spent my time and energy creating that, I would.


Thing is, Copyright law doesn't give a fark if you're able to monetize your work or not. That's not the point.

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

The end goal is to create a cultural domain which FUTURE artists are allowed to draw from. Not so you can make a living. That's a byproduct.
 
2013-12-12 06:22:52 PM  
Goddamn, I need to buy a new keyboard or start using the preview function.

Kinek: I'd make the argument that the 'Majority' of the creative work for MST3k was the value added by the riffing crew. If I can, through my own efforts, take a work and recreate it or put it in such a context that it goes from unwatchable, to highly entertaining, then I'd say that that's transformative


Making jokes over a creative work doesn't transform it into something else.  That's why Rifftrax offers the commentary separately, they don't have to pay for the distribution rights of the movies while still offering the part that they are responsible for creating.
 
2013-12-12 06:28:21 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Goddamn, I need to buy a new keyboard or start using the preview function.

Kinek: I'd make the argument that the 'Majority' of the creative work for MST3k was the value added by the riffing crew. If I can, through my own efforts, take a work and recreate it or put it in such a context that it goes from unwatchable, to highly entertaining, then I'd say that that's transformative

Making jokes over a creative work doesn't transform it into something else. That's why Rifftrax offers the commentary separately, they don't have to pay for the distribution rights of the movies while still offering the part that they are responsible for creating.


We're suffering from an is/ought dilemma here. The reason why they offer it seperately is to avoid expensive lawsuits. That's the same reason why most fair use cases end in someone shuffling off and not pressing it further because the cost of legal action or defense is too high. That's the /is/. You can't point out what people are doing as evidence as that being the way it should be done.

And let's take this

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059080/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1">http://www.imd b.com/title/tt0059080/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

That's got a score of 4.1. Pretty average.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0655416/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3">http://www.imd b.com/title/tt0655416/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3

That's got a score of 8.2

So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera.
 
2013-12-12 06:30:28 PM  

Kinek: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

The end goal is to create a cultural domain which FUTURE artists are allowed to draw from. Not so you can make a living. That's a byproduct


Okay?  I'm cool with the distribution rights of creators being protected to help promote and create a cultural domain for artists in the future to draw from that also helps artist make a living now.
 
2013-12-12 06:30:56 PM  
The more I think about this the more I suspect someone at Google, who like to quietly monetize everything, had the idea that they could sell this service to copyright holders - the RIAA, Game manufacturers, et al - and have been aggressively marketing it to them, hence the slew of complaints. I imagine there was a big launch party at one of the Google divisions and this is the result (or unintended consequence).
 
2013-12-12 06:31:34 PM  

Kinek: So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera


Remove the movie and what's the value of the commentary without it?
 
2013-12-12 06:34:00 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

The end goal is to create a cultural domain which FUTURE artists are allowed to draw from. Not so you can make a living. That's a byproduct

Okay?  I'm cool with the distribution rights of creators being protected to help promote and create a cultural domain for artists in the future to draw from that also helps artist make a living now.


I think you misunderstand the argument that I'm trying to make. Giving artists distribution rights is an INCENTIVE. Not a means to an end. You seem to view it as an end, with the enrichment of the public domain being a secondary byproduct.
 
2013-12-12 06:36:21 PM  

Kinek: I think you misunderstand the argument that I'm trying to make. Giving artists distribution rights is an INCENTIVE. Not a means to an end. You seem to view it as an end, with the enrichment of the public domain being a secondary byproduct


No I'm okay with that too.
 
2013-12-12 06:37:10 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera

Remove the movie and what's the value of the commentary without it?


About the same if you removed all the oil paint from the Mona lisa.
 
2013-12-12 06:38:16 PM  

Kinek: Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera

Remove the movie and what's the value of the commentary without it?

About the same if you removed all the oil paint from the Mona lisa.


That's some apples to apples shiat right there.
 
2013-12-12 06:38:23 PM  

Geotpf:1. It doesn't work in real time, so a video can be up for weeks or months before it gets flagged.

Wrong. Completely wrong. That daddy-daughter dance video that I uploaded was flagged and muted before it finished processing.

Lumbar Puncture: I think video games should have the same protection of other created works, and adding commentary does not make it something I'd consider transformative.


Why not? These people aren't allowing others to play the game. The are not giving people the same experience as purchasing it as they get from watching someone's commentary of it. They transform it by changing and adding to the product to completely alter the experience. Are you saying that playing a game yourself and watching someone else play is the same exact thing? Songs in the games are no different. Listening to a song as part of an album or even an individual track is not the same thing as the song being on in the background while someone else narrates, critiques, and commentates something that includes the song.

You're saying that watching someone's commentary of a product is the same thing as using the product yourself. Hell, let's get even simpler. You're saying that watching MST3K is the same experience as watching the movies features as a standalone film. And continuing on that you're saying that RiffTrax does not transform the movie experience. The entire product exists because it transforms the product.

Copyright law as it stands is terrible and needs to change.
 The games in question are not the focus of these videos. They are a tool used to create a new and unique experience. You seem to be unable to see the forest through the trees here. The hammer analogy is the same. It's a tool used to transform something else for monetary gain.


If commentary does no transform a product and this is in violation of copyright then you'd also see most magazines in existence as non transformative and in violation of copyright. Road and Track, Golf Digest, Men's Health, Cosmo, etc. Most of what they do is comment and critique other people's copyrighted and protected works. What's the difference? According to you, commentary does not transform a work. They should all shut down.

IGN, 1UP, etc are video gaming sites that have a large portion of their content as video game reviews and critiques. Videos included. Commentary over gameplay. They are also in violation, according to you.
 
2013-12-12 06:39:18 PM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: About time...

...collection of sweaty neckbeards huffing and "umm"ing into dimestore mics displaying far too much emotional investment...


Sucks that you are forced to watch them.
 
2013-12-12 06:39:37 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: I think you misunderstand the argument that I'm trying to make. Giving artists distribution rights is an INCENTIVE. Not a means to an end. You seem to view it as an end, with the enrichment of the public domain being a secondary byproduct

No I'm okay with that too.


Incentive here implies optional. Oil on the gears. It isn't mandatory. There's no moral right.
 
2013-12-12 06:39:58 PM  
Bah let's face it, most "Let's Play" videos suck.  45 minutes of heavy breathing and "Uh, yeah, uh...."


I just wish Google would undo whatever the hell that they did to Youtube.  I miss being able to pause a video and walk way, only to watch my video in HD.

Now?  Unpause it and you get a stuttering, halting video that ends up only playing at whatever lowest resolution they offer.  Reminds me of RealPlayer.  Buffering....
 
2013-12-12 06:41:59 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: So, either MST3k fans really, really love their Gamera, MST3k added, with their jokes and tone, 4.1 points of value to the movie. That's pretty damn transformative in experience. I'm not sure how you can argue otherwise. They literally doubled the value of Gamera

Remove the movie and what's the value of the commentary without it?

About the same if you removed all the oil paint from the Mona lisa.

That's some apples to apples shiat right there.


Do you know what Appropriation art is? Are you saying they create nothing but derivative (In the most vulgar artistic term) art?
 
2013-12-12 06:48:05 PM  
LOLL I HOPE THIS TAUGHT THOSE YOUTUBE NERD'S A LESSON AND IT'S CALLED "STOP JERKIGN OFF TOO POKEMANZ" AND GET A REAL JOB.  GOOD LUCK GETTING MY JOB WITHOUT ANY REAL JOB EXPERIENCE LOLL.  THEY DON'T LET JUST ANYONE AT MCDONALD'S BECOME A CASHIER
 
2013-12-12 06:49:36 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Why not? These people aren't allowing others to play the game. The are not giving people the same experience as purchasing it as they get from watching someone's commentary of it. They transform it by changing and adding to the product to completely alter the experience. Are you saying that playing a game yourself and watching someone else play is the same exact thing? Songs in the games are no different. Listening to a song as part of an album or even an individual track is not the same thing as the song being on in the background while someone else narrates, critiques, and commentates something that includes the son


I'm saying that games are more than just input, it's art, voice acting, direction, music, design, etc.  Displaying the entire game publicly without compensation or permission by the content creators I think is wrong.  Clips?  Strategies?  Reviews?  Fair use.  A whole game?  Nope.

CtrlAltDestroy: You're saying that watching someone's commentary of a product is the same thing as using the product yourself. Hell, let's get even simpler. You're saying that watching MST3K is the same experience as watching the movies features as a standalone film. And continuing on that you're saying that RiffTrax does not transform the movie experience. The entire product exists because it transforms the product.


Actually I'm not.  I'm saying they don't alter the original film enough to be considered transformative enough to hijack the right to redistribute the film just because they told jokes over it.

Rifftrax provides an alternate experience to the film, but again requires the film in it's original form in order to work so it does not transform it.

CtrlAltDestroy: If commentary does no transform a product and this is in violation of copyright then you'd also see most magazines in existence as non transformative and in violation of copyright. Road and Track, Golf Digest, Men's Health, Cosmo, etc. Most of what they do is comment and critique other people's copyrighted and protected works. What's the difference? According to you, commentary does not transform a work. They should all shut down.


Fair Use, which I've not argued against at all and in fact have mentioned that the Youtube algorithm goes too far in taking down videos that do not violate copyright.  If you're going to put words in my mouth at least know what I'm saying, they way you took my comments and somehow made them something else would be a transformative work though, so congrats!


Look, if you or anyone else disagree with me that they Let's Play videos shouldn't need to compensate or get permission of the creators of the game, then we disagree.  No amount of shiatty analogies or 'if you mean this than you must mean something hyperbolic' is going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change your opinion on the matter either.  I'm bored now, so if it helps, you win and I'm wrong!  I just hope none of you create something and then see it used by someone else for their financial gain without your permission because that would suck.
 
2013-12-12 06:50:04 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: However I wonder how you would feel if you created a song, sold it, and then found out someone took it, mashed it up with another song, and was making money from it. Maybe you wouldn't care. If I spent my time and energy creating that, I would.


I wouldn't care. Good for them. They took my work, changed it to something I never thought of, and is rolling with it. I'd like a credit for the original work that they'd be using but that's it. And anyone who is able to see the bigger picture will realize that a modified version of a creative work will almost always create more interest in the the original creation. Someone modifying your work and drawing attention to it benefits you.

Hell, I learned about my absolute favorite music artist because, gasp!, I heard the song in a fan made music video. A mash up with a movie with a similar theme to the music. It worked out quite well. From there I researched the artist. I've since purchased every album, limited press vinyls, seen them in concert every single time they come near me in the past several years, and purchased merch (including more expensive limited edition items) directly from the artist themselves. As in, I walked up to their merch table told the guys in the band what I wanted, they gave me the items, I gave them cash, shook their hand, got a pic, and off I went.

I've given this particular artist hundred of dollars, will end up giving them hundreds more, half of which was/will be in person directly into their hands, all because I watched a farking mash up video.
 
2013-12-12 06:52:48 PM  

Kinek: Do you know what Appropriation art is? Are you saying they create nothing but derivative (In the most vulgar artistic term) art

?

I'm saying that their work only works when displaying the film in it's original form with their commentary on top of it.  They don't change or alter it in any significant fashion.  I'd bet that they'd agree that their commentary doesn't give them the right to the original content or it's distribution.

Even if they made Starship Troopers watchable earlier this year.  I love those guys but it only works because the original is bad, their commentary doesn't make the film itself better.
 
2013-12-12 06:53:48 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: I wouldn't care. Good for them.


Cool.  I would.  You'd have the right to allow them to do so, while I'd have the right to restrict my work.  Awesome to have those options, ain't it?
 
2013-12-12 06:57:10 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: Do you know what Appropriation art is? Are you saying they create nothing but derivative (In the most vulgar artistic term) art?

I'm saying that their work only works when displaying the film in it's original form with their commentary on top of it.  They don't change or alter it in any significant fashion.  I'd bet that they'd agree that their commentary doesn't give them the right to the original content or it's distribution.

Even if they made Starship Troopers watchable earlier this year.  I love those guys but it only works because the original is bad, their commentary doesn't make the film itself better.


The IMDB scores say differently.
 
2013-12-12 06:59:30 PM  
Interesting look at this from Boogie2988(aka Francis)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIh6t0d_MuA
 
2013-12-12 07:02:23 PM  

Kinek: The IMDB scores say differently


What did they change of the film?  Is it a giant cactus now instead of a turtle or did the original movie remain intact with their commentary over it?
 
2013-12-12 07:04:53 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: I'm saying that games are more than just input, it's art, voice acting, direction, music, design, etc. Displaying the entire game publicly without compensation or permission by the content creators I think is wrong. Clips? Strategies? Reviews? Fair use. A whole game? Nope.


How much is too much? What's the limit? How much commentating vs gameplay footage? If you want to go this route you need to have hard boundaries.

Besides, fair use includes commentary.

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections  17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

What's wrong with commentating the whole game? You are obviously not a gamer. Watching a Let's Play or other form of commentary is in no way shape or form comparable to playing the game yourself. Only a non gamer would try to say that seeing and hearing the voice acting, music, etc is enough to be comparable to actually playing the game. This notion of yours is absurd. These two things are simply not comparable at all. Being in control and having to make all of the decisions, reactions, button presses, etc is the very core of playing a game. I don't care if you don't like analogies. They're very useful in showing how ridiculous something is. You're saying that watching someone drive stick is the same as actually driving stick. After all, you get to see the layout of the interior and hear the engine and whatnot.

Lumbar Puncture: I'm bored now, so if it helps, you win and I'm wrong!


Being condescending will only make people take you less seriously and thus compromise the effectiveness of your arguments. It's also terribly immature.

Lumbar Puncture: I just hope none of you create something and then see it used by someone else for their financial gain without your permission


I hope that I do, too. Because, like I said, it wouldn't bother me. My original product will receive more attention and it would be flattering as hell. There is no downside here. Someone else modifying my work into something new will only benefit me.
 
2013-12-12 07:05:31 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: The IMDB scores say differently

What did they change of the film?  Is it a giant cactus now instead of a turtle or did the original movie remain intact with their commentary over it?


Actually ignore that.  Your point and my point are missing each other by miles and we're not going to see eye to eye on this.  I respect your opinion that you believe it does transform the original into something new, but I disagree with it, which is the basis of my opinion on the matter of Let's Play videos as well. May Gamera be with you.
 
2013-12-12 07:09:41 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Besides, fair use includes commentary.


Not over an entire work distributed publicly without permission!

CtrlAltDestroy: You are obviously not a gamer


Is this an insult?  Do we whip out our gamerscore penises now?  I don't know what's going on.
 
2013-12-12 07:11:57 PM  

fluffy2097: Are we so lazy as a nation now we have to watch other people play video games for us?

/Ban Mod Horror


Even worse when the game is The Sims.
 
2013-12-12 07:13:12 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: CtrlAltDestroy: I wouldn't care. Good for them.

Cool.  I would.  You'd have the right to allow them to do so, while I'd have the right to restrict my work.  Awesome to have those options, ain't it?


You completely ignored the part of that post where I mention how someone doing so is good for you. I get the feeling that this is more about how it makes you feel then the actual outcome of said actions. You're coming off like a control freak. As in, this seems like a topic that you're reacting to emotionally instead of rationally. You, time and time again, throw out the logic of how this kind of thing isn't harmful and your arguments are based around someone else making money without your permission.

If that person never make the modified part of your work, then you get no additional money. If they do and don't cut you checks you get no additional money from them, but you do get money because of the increased attention that your work is receiving. Just like my example with me and my favorite music artist. Why did you ignore that very real world example of how this type of thing is beneficial to the original artists? Youtube Let's Plays are also responsible for video game purchases, AAA titles and indie, that I would have otherwise never purchased. How is that a bad thing or something worth removing for the future?

Respond to that last paragraph directly and in it's entirely or be written off as a person with no interest in rational debate.

Although, I thought that you were bored and going to leave. Looks like that was just a snide, condescending remark. Luckily, I'm not intimidated by such things.
 
2013-12-12 07:14:09 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Lumbar Puncture: Kinek: The IMDB scores say differently

What did they change of the film?  Is it a giant cactus now instead of a turtle or did the original movie remain intact with their commentary over it?

Actually ignore that.  Your point and my point are missing each other by miles and we're not going to see eye to eye on this.  I respect your opinion that you believe it does transform the original into something new, but I disagree with it, which is the basis of my opinion on the matter of Let's Play videos as well. May Gamera be with you.


May your days be blessed with Kenny.
 
2013-12-12 07:17:18 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Not over an entire work distributed publicly without permission!


Citation needed. WITH citation of the limits of percent of total product to be used.

Lumbar Puncture: s this an insult? Do we whip out our gamerscore penises now? I don't know what's going on.


The point is that one cannot effectively argue on a point which one is not familiar with. It's as ridiculous as the Republicans using a panel of only men to make decisions about a woman's personal, gender specific health. You're lack of ability in understanding why a Let's Play is a transformative work, which only comes from intimate knowledge of the works in question, makes you ill equipped to argue this point.
 
2013-12-12 07:19:58 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Respond to that last paragraph directly and in it's entirely or be written off as a person with no interest in rational debate.


This sentence made this thread worth it alone.  Respond or be written off as a person!

CtrlAltDestroy: If that person never make the modified part of your work, then you get no additional money. If they do and don't cut you checks you get no additional money from them, but you do get money because of the increased attention that your work is receiving. Just like my example with me and my favorite music artist. Why did you ignore that very real world example of how this type of thing is beneficial to the original artists? Youtube Let's Plays are also responsible for video game purchases, AAA titles and indie, that I would have otherwise never purchased. How is that a bad thing or something worth removing for the future?


I never said that it wouldn't be beneficial for the original creator, only that the original creator has the right to choose how their work is redistributed.  You are absolutely correct that it would be a control thing, if I create something I would like to have the ability to either control the distribution of that content I created or sign over those right for what I feel is worth it to me.  I didn't ignore a very real world example, there are those publishers, such as Deep Silver, that give permission freely for those who would like to do Let's Play videos.  Others request that they just don't monetize it or contact them for permission.

I think that's a great thing for people to help spread the word, as long as they ask permission from the creator or copyright holder to do so!  How is it a bad thing that people respect the creators of the content that they want to use?

Answer or be forever denied into the halls of Valhalla.
 
2013-12-12 07:24:01 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: This sentence made this thread worth it alone. Respond or be written off as a person!


Aaaand you failed. Expecting a logical response to clear points being made in an argument is what makes a debate possible. Conveniently ignoring the points which weaken your argument is cowardly and not in the spirit of a debate. Trolls and people who refuse to be wrong are the ones who ignore what they don't want to acknowledge. I have not read beyond this line. You failed to actually engage in a logical conversation. As such, I'm holding up to my end of the bargain and will no longer see any of your posts.

I pity anyone who has to interact with you on a regular basis.

Goodbye and good riddance.
 
2013-12-12 07:24:10 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Citation needed. WITH citation of the limits of percent of total product to be used


3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Read the rest yourself.

CtrlAltDestroy: The point is that one cannot effectively argue on a point which one is not familiar with.


I'm familiar with what we're arguing on, I was mocking that you assumed I wasn't a gamer because I chose to respect the artistic collaboration involved and for some reason tried to write my position off as irrelevant because of experience.  Only consoles I don't own are the Xbox One, WiiU, and PS4 because I've got a backlog of about 50 games.  What I'm saying so you don't have to put words in my mouth is that in your Republican analogy I have a vagina just like you.
 
2013-12-12 07:25:05 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Aaaand you failed. Expecting a logical response to clear points being made in an argument is what makes a debate possible. Conveniently ignoring the points which weaken your argument is cowardly and not in the spirit of a debate. Trolls and people who refuse to be wrong are the ones who ignore what they don't want to acknowledge. I have not read beyond this line. You failed to actually engage in a logical conversation. As such, I'm holding up to my end of the bargain and will no longer see any of your posts.

I pity anyone who has to interact with you on a regular basis.

Goodbye and good riddance


I responded to your request seriously.  You failed to respond to mine.

You are not allowed into Valhalla.
 
2013-12-12 08:12:40 PM  
For about a month now, I've discovered and watched at least half of Dan Hardcastle's videos (Nerd³)

But the past week has been hell, because he's had to stop making the gameplay videos, and planning moves to go elsewhere. it's just a pity because YouTube is just so damn accessible, I can watch youtube videos on any connected device I own, I can't say the same for any other video sharing service.
 
2013-12-12 09:05:39 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: I just wish Google would undo whatever the hell that they did to Youtube. I miss being able to pause a video and walk way, only to watch my video in HD.

Now? Unpause it and you get a stuttering, halting video that ends up only playing at whatever lowest resolution they offer. Reminds me of RealPlayer. Buffering....


There have been some really user-hostile things going on at YouTube over the past two months.

Your problem is likely that they have nuked the HTML-served 1080p MP4 (video+audio) videos and the best you can do over straight HTTP is 720p. To get 1080p, you(r browser) must use DASH (Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP) to fetch the 1080p MP4 video and the M4A audio, and then remux separately.

Earlier this week, previously-existing audio streams that were once available as 256kbps DASH audio have been downgraded to 128kbps.
 
2013-12-13 01:37:43 AM  
YouTube is an essential step in purchasing a video game.
The game companies know this and want to get as much publicity as possible to sell more.
I think this will lead to Google getting protection money from them so their videos are not removed.
 
2013-12-13 03:37:40 AM  
I honestly feel bad for anyone who gets screwed out of their livelihood over this.

Having to work in the real world sucks, and even worse is having to FIND work in the real world. In this crappy country these crappy days, it's friggin' difficult.

 Welcome to hell.
 
2013-12-13 08:02:57 AM  
I wonder if the same dickhead(s) behind the requirement for a Google+ account to comment, the ability to hyperlink in comments, and all the other general asshattery on YouTube over the last year is behind this?

If so, either fire their ass(es) or just hit the goddamn self-destruct button.

Let's Players have just about created a whole job market for themselves, one that exploded since the recession.  These people found a revenue stream to support themselves when there were no jobs to be found, freeing up the few jobs there were open for others who lacked the charismatic elements that make a Let's Player successful.  Youtube provided them this path, and now have slowly transformed it into a hostile work environment.  YOutube's made money hand over fist with these people, and now bites the hand that feeds...
 
2013-12-13 08:56:36 AM  

rjakobi: If this ends up with the destruction of PewDiePie's career, good.


OMG noooo!!  Where will I get my daily dosage of on-screen fist bumps?!?!

/sarcasm off
 
2013-12-13 11:11:24 AM  

HeartBurnKid: So, it turns out that Lets Players aren't the only ones who got caught in this net...


Nobody gives a shiat about critics though.
 
2013-12-13 11:15:15 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: Let's Plays don't pay for the content either,


Excuse me? I purchased every game I've LPed. How many times do you need me to pay for the same material?
 
2013-12-13 11:21:27 AM  

Lumbar Puncture: I just hope none of you create something and then see it used by someone else for their financial gain without your permission because


I would hope that if I were to somehow create something 100% original and completely out of my head and not from anybody else, ever, or their works, ever (lol, do you honestly understand the impossibilities of what you're expecting from artists here?) I would certainly hope that somebody else would turn around and be able to find alternate uses or ways of expressing what I have somehow managed to pull from my ass with no outside influence.

Art doesn't exist within a vacuum. Culture does not exist within a vacuum.

Nobody here understands why you are trying to apply such "logic" to LPers whilst completely ignoring that EVERYBODY ELSE HAS BEEN DOING STUFF LIKE THIS SINCE THE DAWN OF farkING TIME.
 
2013-12-13 12:32:52 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Nobody here understands why you are trying to apply such "logic" to LPers whilst completely ignoring that EVERYBODY ELSE HAS BEEN DOING STUFF LIKE THIS SINCE THE DAWN OF farkING TIME


Buy a movie and put the entire thing on Youtube and provide commentary over it and see how well that works out for you.

Again, I'm not disputing the Fair Use of clips, but broadcasting an entire game without obtaining the consent of the person who own the copyright for that work and respecting their wishes on how they want their work distributed, whether that's paying a licensing fee to broadcast or just giving them credit for the game or whatever, I think is wrong.

Is the work you do on Let's Play creative work on it's own?  Certainly, I'm not disputing that or the time or effort it takes to create that.  If you have no problem with someone taking your work and doing something with it even if it doesn't really alter your original content and they get paid from it, cool.  But it is my opinion that they should ask you for that permission, and if you wanted to qualify how they use that then I think that should be your right to do so if you choose.

They may have been doing it since the dawn of time, but since the Copyright laws existed it's technically not without possible consequences to do so.  If you didn't pay for the license to broadcast the entirety of the game or ask permission to do so and if a publisher chooses to they can at their discretion file a DCMA complaint.

If you don't think that a person should have to ask permission of the copyright holder to distribute or broadcast their work, then that's something we disagree with.  I understand why you would think it wouldn't be a problem and why you'd be angry that the work you put in and Youtube profited from is no longer available, but I think the copyright holder has every right to not have the work they put into it redistributed without either permission or compensation.  Sorry if my opinion makes you upset.

What's screwed up is even people who did have consent still have had their work pulled down along with stuff that's obviously fair use.  Youtube of course can do what they want with their website, but that's still kind of farked up.  I hope they make some fixes to it, but the comments they've made certainly doesn't sound like they think anything is wrong.
 
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