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(Den of Geek (US))   "Eleven's hour is over, the clock is striking twelve" Trailer for Doctor Who 2013 x-mas special released   (denofgeek.us) divider line 148
    More: Cool, Eleventh Doctor, previews, Cybermen  
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2548 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Dec 2013 at 2:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



148 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-11 12:41:16 PM  
*sniff*
 
2013-12-11 12:44:54 PM  
i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.
 
2013-12-11 12:49:32 PM  

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.


We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.
 
2013-12-11 01:31:09 PM  

kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.

We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.


I had almost gotten tired of Tennant by the end of his run. Russell Davies had just made him so  broody that it became somewhat unbearable.
 
2013-12-11 01:45:32 PM  
I hate those damn weeping angels.

kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.

We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.


Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.


Stick with it.  We all loved David Tennant, but Smith has done a decent job as the Doctor.
 
2013-12-11 02:26:21 PM  
... Last season STILL isn't on Netflix streaming.

/farking disappointed over here
 
2013-12-11 02:26:31 PM  
I am anticipating the room getting very, very dusty.
 
2013-12-11 02:29:16 PM  
Nope, not going to watch it.  I refuse to watch it.  I've had enough of the spoilers reducing the suspense of what is coming next!

/probably going to watch it
 
2013-12-11 02:30:17 PM  
After the 50th, even a regeneration/villains unite story will just be kinda 'Meh'.   Which is exactly how Russell T Davies should depart the show.   Meh.

<blah blah from family>

Oh.  Davies is not leaving?   Well FARK.   He's the one who needs to go, not necessarily Smith.
 
2013-12-11 02:33:26 PM  
Um, I have a request, if I may ... Can we dispense with the numbering arguments, for once, in a Fark Doctor Who thread? Those discussions get real tedious. Thanks.
 
2013-12-11 02:33:36 PM  

Rhypskallion: After the 50th, even a regeneration/villains unite story will just be kinda 'Meh'.   Which is exactly how Russell T Davies should depart the show.   Meh.

<blah blah from family>

Oh.  Davies is not leaving?   Well FARK.   He's the one who needs to go, not necessarily Smith.


Do you mean Moffett?  Davies has been gone for a long time...
 
2013-12-11 02:37:41 PM  
In before spamdog comes along and biatches about Doctor Who threads.
 
2013-12-11 02:39:14 PM  

Rincewind53: kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.

We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.

I had almost gotten tired of Tennant by the end of his run. Russell Davies had just made him so  broody that it became somewhat unbearable.


Honestly I didn't really get that feeling until Waters of Mars, where it was done specifically  because he was leaving.
 
2013-12-11 02:39:15 PM  

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 13 is better.


FTFY.
 
2013-12-11 02:39:44 PM  
I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.
 
2013-12-11 02:40:27 PM  

phaseolus: Um, I have a request, if I may ... Can we dispense with the numbering arguments, for once, in a Fark Doctor Who thread? Those discussions get real tedious. Thanks.


Oh.

Sorry.
 
2013-12-11 02:40:53 PM  
BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.
 
2013-12-11 02:42:21 PM  
bulsd:
Do you mean Moffett?  Davies has been gone for a long time...

I need an editor.   Do you work cheap?  I mean <free>really cheap?

I do indeed mean Moffett.

On other topic, I agree, the story of Rory is underdeveloped.
 
2013-12-11 02:45:12 PM  

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


According to Moffatt and a majority of those who write and run the show, the canon is like this:

The Doctor has used 11 of his regenerations.  With Smith's departure, Capaldi will be the 13th body.

BUT, as far as "Doctors" goes, They're simply not counting John Hurt's character as "the Doctor."  He's "The War Doctor", a regeneration "unworthy to carry the name of the Doctor."

Which personally I don't buy, but... *shrugs*
 
2013-12-11 02:45:36 PM  

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


They are. But people are going to argue about the naming convention for the entirety of Doctor Who's run from here on out. It's the U.N.I.T. dating protocol all over again.
 
2013-12-11 02:45:57 PM  

Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.


They need to stick with the male and female companion pair. It seems to have worked well every time they have done it throughout the series. It also provides a love interest besides the doctor.
 
2013-12-11 02:46:22 PM  

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


that's what day of doctor said. it specifically showed capaldi's eyes and said "13"
 
2013-12-11 02:50:30 PM  

Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.


I guess that's why people liked Donna. She didn't swoon. I would rather have had Martha stick around a lot longer and just not swoon.

Amy was fine. The whole swooning ended around the second episode. Watching she and Rory treat the Doctor basically as a son-in-law, even before he WAS one, was fun as hell.

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


They are going to have to explain that shiat. That's what gets me about Moffet. When he wants to go big, he goes farking BIG.  BAM! The Doctor is now 200 years older, without much explanation what he did for 200 years. BAM! Now there's a whole regeneration we have shoehorned in without considering much how that affects things. Destroy the whole universe as if it never existed and then wake it up as if nothing happened? Sure thing!

Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.
 
2013-12-11 02:54:26 PM  

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14
 
2013-12-11 02:57:00 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-11 02:57:10 PM  

jonny_q: Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.

I guess that's why people liked Donna. She didn't swoon. I would rather have had Martha stick around a lot longer and just not swoon.

Amy was fine. The whole swooning ended around the second episode. Watching she and Rory treat the Doctor basically as a son-in-law, even before he WAS one, was fun as hell.

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

They are going to have to explain that shiat. That's what gets me about Moffet. When he wants to go big, he goes farking BIG.  BAM! The Doctor is now 200 years older, without much explanation what he did for 200 years. BAM! Now there's a whole regeneration we have shoehorned in without considering much how that affects things. Destroy the whole universe as if it never existed and then wake it up as if nothing happened? Sure thing!

Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.


There's nothing to explain, really. Technically every Doctor after Hurt's has been bumped up one notch. Capaldi is the 13th Doctor. Technically. But before the events of DoTD the Doctor did not acknowledge that regen, even though he knew good and well that people referring to him as the 9th, 10th, or 11th regeneration was incorrect.

I'd like to see Capaldi just correct someone sometime during his run. Have someone refer to him as the 12th Doctor and he responds, "Thirteenth, actually" then goes about his business with no further explanation. It would put the whole argument to rest and further drive home the idea that The Doctor has comes to terms with his past and moved on.
 
2013-12-11 03:03:12 PM  

cretinbob: Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


now THAT is interesting.  But, they still have River's regens to fall back on.
 
2013-12-11 03:03:23 PM  

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.


I think most had that reaction with Smith, but it does get better.

Looking forward to the new season

BunkyBrewman: Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory. That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on


I would like to see more of the Captain Jack/Face of Bo story line. Because they dropped that one like a bomb and that was it. I do agree though, Rory was an awesome character
 
2013-12-11 03:03:32 PM  

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.
 
2013-12-11 03:05:08 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.

I think most had that reaction with Smith, but it does get better.

Looking forward to the new season

BunkyBrewman: Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory. That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on

I would like to see more of the Captain Jack/Face of Bo story line. Because they dropped that one like a bomb and that was it. I do agree though, Rory was an awesome character


Also, don't let Captain Jack end with "Miracle Day".  Holy fark, did that suck.  Give him one last good story.
 
2013-12-11 03:06:49 PM  

fawlty: cretinbob: Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

now THAT is interesting.  But, they still have River's regens to fall back on.


He didn't get extra regenerations from her; he just got healed.

The Doctor will be getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.
 
2013-12-11 03:14:58 PM  

NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.


I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.
 
2013-12-11 03:16:43 PM  
Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...
 
2013-12-11 03:19:51 PM  

New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.


That's what I thought they would do, but Moffet's statements about Smith's Doctor being in trouble regarding regens suggests that it may not just be custom or law.
 
2013-12-11 03:22:20 PM  

WippitGuud: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 13 is better.

FTFY.


I know, i didn't want to rustle any jimmies.
 
2013-12-11 03:23:05 PM  

New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.


I've seen those arguments, but they strike me as largely bullsh*t ones without any sort of evidence.  I mean, would the Master have really obeyed that custom or law?

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...


Except in Mawdryn Undead the Fifth Doctor clearly states that he's regenerated four times already.  So, here's what we've got:

1: Hartnell->Troughton
2: Troughton->Pertwee
3: Pertwee->T. Baker
4: T.Baker->Davison
5: Davison->C. Baker
6: C. Baker->McCoy
7: McCoy->McGann
8: McGann->Hurt
9: Hurt->Eccleston
10: Eccleston->Tennant
11: Tennant->Tennant (Stolen Earth/Journey's End, and yes, it counts)
12: Tennant->Smith

That's 12 of 12 consumed.  He's getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.  Book it.
 
2013-12-11 03:30:28 PM  

cheer: fawlty: cretinbob: Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

now THAT is interesting.  But, they still have River's regens to fall back on.

He didn't get extra regenerations from her; he just got healed.

The Doctor will be getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.


Yup. They have already confirmed he is going back to Trenzalore, where he dies. Clara is pleading in the trailer to someone to help the Doctor change his future. But this is officially a plot element. The Doctor will die because he has no further regenerations, so something must happen.
 
2013-12-11 03:44:06 PM  

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard.  Which is... no.  The entire point of that character was to allow some version of the Doctor to experience the fleeting, ordinary life of a human that he'd been wistfully talking about for four freakin' seasons.  And to give Rose a consolation prize to get her out of everyone's hair.  To make him come back and try to steal the regenerations of his Time Lord self does a complete disservice to that resolution and I sincerely hope that's not the route Moffat is taking.

But, since he already turned the tragedy that spanned the first four seasons into irony with the retcon in the 50th, I won't hold my breath.

How to write a Moffat episode:
1. Start with a gimmick
2. Write the characters as tools to drive the gimmick, rather than a story to drive the characters
3. Ignore everything that has already been established
4. If something is too big to ignore, spend no more than 30 seconds handwaving it away.
5. Have someone repeat something incessantly
6. Have a monster that looks scary, but otherwise has no tangible motive other than "look scary".  And repeat stuff incessantly.
7. Kill off a character, but never permanently.  Feel free to kill them multiple times in one episode if you like.
8. Give everyone and everything important-sounding pseudonyms.
9. Have characters treat every minor revelation like the most profound and clever twist ever
10. Have a female character stand in a spotlight and give a monologue about how the Doctor is the bestest man ever
11. Have the Doctor stand in the spotlight and give a monologue about he's the bestest man ever, and have this monologue solve everything without the Doctor actually having to do anything
12. And most importantly: Tell, don't show!
 
2013-12-11 03:46:20 PM  
Instead of arguing about the numbers, I would rather state that this looks like it will be AWESOME.  I've always thought that more Christmas specials could use a copious amount of explosions.

Oh, did anyone notice in the trailer Matt Smith looks old?  Yes, I've read the spoilers (really hard to avoid them, really)...but I have to say, he looks even more badass as a crotchety old guy.  This special is going to be great.
 
2013-12-11 03:46:34 PM  

fawlty: That's what I thought they would do, but Moffet's statements about


....let me stop you right there.

Let's not worry ourselves with reconciling the words of a hack that loves to make shiat up as he goes along.

I'm pretty sure there are people completely indifferent to the show that care about it many times more than Moffet does.
 
2013-12-11 03:48:22 PM  

jonny_q: Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.


He took that basic event right from the books. It wasn't HIS incredibly big thing.
 
2013-12-11 03:51:46 PM  

cheer: New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.

I've seen those arguments, but they strike me as largely bullsh*t ones without any sort of evidence.  I mean, would the Master have really obeyed that custom or law?

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...

Except in Mawdryn Undead the Fifth Doctor clearly states that he's regenerated four times already.  So, here's what we've got:

1: Hartnell->Troughton
2: Troughton->Pertwee
3: Pertwee->T. Baker
4: T.Baker->Davison
5: Davison->C. Baker
6: C. Baker->McCoy
7: McCoy->McGann
8: McGann->Hurt
9: Hurt->Eccleston
10: Eccleston->Tennant
11: Tennant->Tennant (Stolen Earth/Journey's End, and yes, it counts)
12: Tennant->Smith

That's 12 of 12 consumed.  He's getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.  Book it.


Taking a page from the DOT:

Hartnell - The 1963 Doctor
Troughton - The 1966 Doctor
Pertwee - The 1970 Doctor
Tom Baker - The 1974 Doctor
Davison - The 1981 Doctor
Colin Baker - The 1984 Doctor
McCoy - The 1987 Doctor
McGann - The 1996 Doctor
Eccleston - The 2005A Doctor
Tennant - The 2005B Doctor
Smith - The 2010 Doctor
Hurt - The 2013A Doctor
Capaldi - The 2013B Doctor
 
2013-12-11 03:53:54 PM  

NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.


I always thought (even before the series came back) that the 12 regeneration limit was an artificial one
imposed by the Timelord High Council, since they were explicitly stated during the original run as having
the ability to grant a whole new cycle (see their deal with The Master in THE FIVE DOCTORS).

Since there is no more Timelord High Council, that limit is no longer in force, and likely when Capaldi's
Doctor rescues Gallifrey* they will reward him thus.

*Pay no attention to the fact that Tennent's Doctor timelocked Gallifrey at the end of his run.
 
2013-12-11 03:54:13 PM  
The Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode?

So if I Silence turns turns around from a Weeping Angel does the Angel forget the Silence was there?
 
2013-12-11 03:59:48 PM  

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


No.

1) Moffat lies. A lot. He likes to throw off fans who think they know what's what.

2) Just because Tenant's Doctor used 2 regenerations doesn't change the fact that he was only one incarnation of the Doctor. This is why the US has had only 44 presidents despite having had 50+ presidential elections.

Tenant was 11, Smith 12, Capaldi 13.
 
2013-12-11 04:01:11 PM  

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated. He was forced to change by the timelords. IT DOESN'T COUNT!


A forced regeneration is still a regeneration.

Otherwise, McGann's regeneration "wouldn't count" either, since his was forced via the potion.
 
2013-12-11 04:02:34 PM  

MindStalker: The Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode?

So if I Silence turns turns around from a Weeping Angel does the Angel forget the Silence was there?


The viewer forgets when they look away from a Silent, not just because they don't see his face.

Also:

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-11 04:07:04 PM  

Fast Moon: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard.  Which is... no.  The entire point of that character was to allow some version of the Doctor to experience the fleeting, ordinary life of a human that he'd been wistfully talking about for four freakin' seasons.  And to give Rose a consolation prize to get her out of everyone's hair.  To make him come back and try to steal the regenerations of his Time Lord self does a complete disservice to that resolution and I sincerely hope that's not the route Moffat is taking.

But, since he already turned the tragedy that spanned the first four seasons into irony with the retcon in the 50th, I won't hold my breath.

How to write a Moffat episode:
1. Start with a gimmick
2. Write the characters as tools to drive the gimmick, rather than a story to drive the characters
3. Ignore everything that has already been established
4. If something is too big to ignore, spend no more than 30 seconds handwaving it away.
5. Have someone repeat something incessantly
6. Have a monster that looks scary, but otherwise has no tangible motive other than "look scary".  And repeat stuff incessantly.
7. Kill off a character, but never permanently.  Feel free to kill them multiple times in one episode if you like.
8. Give everyone and everything important-sounding pseudonyms.
9. Have characters treat every minor revelation like the most profound and clever twist ever
10. Have a female character stand in a spotlight and give a monologue about how the Doctor is the bestest man ever
11. Have the Doctor stand in the spotlight and give a monologue about he's the bestest man ever, and have this monologue solve everything without the Doctor actually having to do anything
12. And most importantly: Tell, don't show!


that's good, but you forgot that he has to use the gimmick of using stock footage of all other incarnations of the Doctor as much as humanly possible.
 
2013-12-11 04:08:51 PM  

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


Rule 1 applies to both the Doctor and Moffet.

Not saying he is necessarily lying, but it wouldn't be the first time.
 
2013-12-11 04:09:34 PM  
Just a note: The Valeyard is not supposed to be between the 12th and 13th, but between the 12th and final  regenerations. That means he could happen any time from now until eternity.

Also, I still like to consider the first Doctor's appearance to be a regeneration itself, which he become after being a normal Gallifreyan. You look into the Time Vortex, and you get your first regeneration into a Timelord (making you physiologically different from standard Gallifreyans).

What I'm saying is that I don't think he looked like Hartnell before he become a Timelord. That was his first regeneration.
 
2013-12-11 04:10:52 PM  

NeoCortex42: Unoriginal_Username: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.

I think most had that reaction with Smith, but it does get better.

Looking forward to the new season

BunkyBrewman: Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory. That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on

I would like to see more of the Captain Jack/Face of Bo story line. Because they dropped that one like a bomb and that was it. I do agree though, Rory was an awesome character

Also, don't let Captain Jack end with "Miracle Day".  Holy fark, did that suck.  Give him one last good story.


Not just Jack, but all of the Torchwood team.
 
2013-12-11 04:11:16 PM  

NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.


What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.
 
2013-12-11 04:12:33 PM  

Rwa2play: NeoCortex42: Unoriginal_Username: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.

I think most had that reaction with Smith, but it does get better.

Looking forward to the new season

BunkyBrewman: Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory. That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on

I would like to see more of the Captain Jack/Face of Bo story line. Because they dropped that one like a bomb and that was it. I do agree though, Rory was an awesome character

Also, don't let Captain Jack end with "Miracle Day".  Holy fark, did that suck.  Give him one last good story.

Not just Jack, but all of the Torchwood team.


What's left of it.
 
2013-12-11 04:17:32 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: MindStalker: The Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode?

So if I Silence turns turns around from a Weeping Angel does the Angel forget the Silence was there?

The viewer forgets when they look away from a Silent, not just because they don't see his face.

Also:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x638]


"So if I Silence turns turns around "

Did I really just stutter in written form? I need some sleep.
 
2013-12-11 04:20:18 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.


The Master was given a new set of regenerations by the Timelords. Granted, there is the whole "it's custom, not biology" argument out there.
 
2013-12-11 04:24:52 PM  

grumpfuff: ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.

The Master was given a new set of regenerations by the Timelords. Granted, there is the whole "it's custom, not biology" argument out there.


Since they've made no reference otherwise, I'm assuming they did the same thing for the Doctor as well.
 
2013-12-11 04:29:45 PM  

grumpfuff: ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.

The Master was given a new set of regenerations by the Timelords. Granted, there is the whole "it's custom, not biology" argument out there.


If he was given new regenerations, then it is only custom. And if he was given 'em, the Doc can be given 'em too (or simply take 'em).

Either way: we know it can be done, so the fact that the Doc gets more shouldn't be all that "Ooo ahh" no matter how they go about it. All that remains to be seen is how they go about it.
 
2013-12-11 04:32:18 PM  

cheer: Rincewind53: kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.
We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.
I had almost gotten tired of Tennant by the end of his run. Russell Davies had just made him so  broody that it became somewhat unbearable.
Honestly I didn't really get that feeling until Waters of Mars, where it was done specifically  because he was leaving.


Hell, Waters of Mars was one of the few times I actually liked Tennant. I mostly watched his run for the companions... Eccelston was definitely my doctor, and I liked Smith better than Tennant almost immediately.


Akuinnen: I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.


It wasn't until the Pandorica for Rory to be anything more than Mickey Junior... post-Pandorica, he probably became the best companion of NuWho (other than the Victorian incarnation of Clara).

I was okay with it for Rose - it fit her character well enough. Never bought it in Martha's case - Jack seemed like a much better "crush" for her than the Doctor.
 
2013-12-11 04:34:51 PM  

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.


You are insane.  Matt Smith has been the perfect doctor.  Goofy.  Bold.  A touch of darkness boiling just beneath the surface.  He has it all, and all in perfect proportions.

But oh noes he doesn't have David Tennant's good looks!  Lets face it, 10th would not have been nearly as popular without such a pretty boy's face.  Tennant's doctor is the least of the new Who.  He was easily the least complex character, and thus the least interesting.  Granted he did start to improve towards the end, and the End of Time was a great showing for him.
 
2013-12-11 04:36:46 PM  

Rwa2play: grumpfuff: ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.

The Master was given a new set of regenerations by the Timelords. Granted, there is the whole "it's custom, not biology" argument out there.

Since they've made no reference otherwise, I'm assuming they did the same thing for the Doctor as well.


I actually have a sneaking suspicion his new regenerations are either going to be a) the custom, not biology argument, or b) the TARDIS's work. Of course, this is Moffet we're talking about, so I'm probably wrong.
 
2013-12-11 04:40:11 PM  

bk3k: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond. I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.

You are insane. Matt Smith has been the perfect doctor. Goofy. Bold. A touch of darkness boiling just beneath the surface. He has it all, and all in perfect proportions.

But oh noes he doesn't have David Tennant's good looks! Lets face it, 10th would not have been nearly as popular without such a pretty boy's face.


Right. Because all the guys out there who prefer Tenant to Smith do so because they're all gay for Tenant.

Smith is a poor man's version of Troughton. Troughton, though capable of being an adult, was child-like; Smith is childish.

Or, as Hurt's Doctor asked both of them, "What is it that makes you so ashamed of being a grownup?"
 
2013-12-11 04:40:46 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: as Hurt's Doctor asked both of them


"Tenant and Smith, not Troughton and x.
 
2013-12-11 04:41:13 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: cheer: New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.

I've seen those arguments, but they strike me as largely bullsh*t ones without any sort of evidence.  I mean, would the Master have really obeyed that custom or law?

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...

Except in Mawdryn Undead the Fifth Doctor clearly states that he's regenerated four times already.  So, here's what we've got:

1: Hartnell->Troughton
2: Troughton->Pertwee
3: Pertwee->T. Baker
4: T.Baker->Davison
5: Davison->C. Baker
6: C. Baker->McCoy
7: McCoy->McGann
8: McGann->Hurt
9: Hurt->Eccleston
10: Eccleston->Tennant
11: Tennant->Tennant (Stolen Earth/Journey's End, and yes, it counts)
12: Tennant->Smith

That's 12 of 12 consumed.  He's getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.  Book it.

Taking a page from the DOT:

Hartnell - The 1963 Doctor
Troughton - The 1966 Doctor
Pertwee - The 1970 Doctor
Tom Baker - The 1974 Doctor
Davison - The 1981 Doctor
Colin Baker - The 1984 Doctor
McCoy - The 1987 Doctor
McGann - The 1996 Doctor
Eccleston - The 2005A Doctor
Tennant - The 2005B Doctor
Smith - The 2010 Doctor
Hurt - The 2013A Doctor
Capaldi - The 2013B Doctor


I made this for my daughter, since she was having a hard time keeping it straight (she started with the Eleventh Doctor, doesn't understand why the Tenth existed twice, etc). Maybe it will help others, too.

img.fark.net
 
2013-12-11 04:49:38 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: jonny_q: Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.

He took that basic event right from the books. It wasn't HIS incredibly big thing.


In the books, as I understand it, there weren't really witnesses - correct me if I'm wrong. In the show, there were a shiatload of witnesses and it was pretty unambiguous onscreen.

I have two separate theories about Moriarty, too, and those are perfectly reasonable to me.

Anyways, I'm trying not to talk at it too much...
 
2013-12-11 04:49:56 PM  
Is anyone else getting a "Hamlet" vibe from this episode, as well?
 
2013-12-11 04:53:28 PM  
wlodb.com
 
2013-12-11 05:06:31 PM  
I was told that if I liked my doctor, I could keep him.

Thanks a lot, Obama!
 
2013-12-11 05:13:13 PM  
The War Doctor's regeneration into Capaldi's Doctor means that the three previous Doctors never happened.  Discuss.
 
2013-12-11 05:29:34 PM  

bingo the psych-o: The War Doctor's regeneration into Capaldi's Doctor means that the three previous Doctors never happened.  Discuss.


"War Doctor" did not regenerate into Capaldi's "Doctor".

Discussion over.
 
2013-12-11 05:30:18 PM  

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


The War Doctor is not counted in the numbering system: he himself disowned the title of Doctor out of necessity, and the later regenerations all agree that he should not carry the title. Or you could always go by the real reason Moffat gave: he didn't want to have to renumber all the NuWho doctors in his mind either. So while a certain Gallifreyan whose name is as yet known only to River Song and possibly his TARDIS has had twelve incarnations, only eleven of them have been called "The Doctor" (other than in the show's own credits). So it is that the Twelfth Doctor is actually the thirteenth incarnation of that being, because he is the twelfth incarnation to be called that.

Which brings up a question: people would have had to call the War Doctor something. What did they call him?
 
2013-12-11 05:34:59 PM  

New Farkin User Name: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.


Yup.  In "The Five Doctors" (I think), The Master was given a new set of regenerations for helping The Doctor at the request of the Time Lord Council. 

If The Doctor can manage to save Gallifrey from being destroyed, I would think he'd get a whole boatload of 1-Ups.
 
2013-12-11 05:45:27 PM  

WallyFenderson: New Farkin User Name: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.

Yup.  In "The Five Doctors" (I think), The Master was given a new set of regenerations for helping The Doctor at the request of the Time Lord Council. 

If The Doctor can manage to save Gallifrey from being destroyed, I would think he'd get a whole boatload of 1-Ups.


Or maybe they give him more lives because they depend on him to free them again.  Without him, they are sort of screwed.
 
2013-12-11 05:46:43 PM  

Millennium: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

The War Doctor is not counted in the numbering system: he himself disowned the title of Doctor out of necessity, and the later regenerations all agree that he should not carry the title. Or you could always go by the real reason Moffat gave: he didn't want to have to renumber all the NuWho doctors in his mind either. So while a certain Gallifreyan whose name is as yet known only to River Song and possibly his TARDIS has had twelve incarnations, only eleven of them have been called "The Doctor" (other than in the show's own credits). So it is that the Twelfth Doctor is actually the thirteenth incarnation of that being, because he is the twelfth incarnation to be called that.

Which brings up a question: people would have had to call the War Doctor something. What did they call him?


Biff.
 
2013-12-11 05:47:39 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.


If they are going with canon the master is on his 31th regeneration. He used up the first set in the deadly assassin episode. He then stole tremas's body (14th). The timelord's gave him a second set in the the five doctor's episode. Then used them all up in the TV movie when he was executed by the daleks (26th). He then morphed into the snake and possessed another human(27th). The timelords resurrected him in the timewar (28th). Again a third set of regenerations was given to him. Escaped the time war and regenerated into YANA the professor (29th). Regenerated into Harold Saxon (30th). Resurrected?regenerated back into Harold Saxon (31st). And was sent back into the timewar with the rest of the timelords. He he can break the rules that badly. I think we are fine with the doctor coming back.
 
2013-12-11 05:51:19 PM  
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Master
 
2013-12-11 05:52:39 PM  

Skyd1v: Nope, not going to watch it.  I refuse to watch it.  I've had enough of the spoilers reducing the suspense of what is coming next!

/probably going to watch it


There's not much to it, really.
 
2013-12-11 05:53:47 PM  

Rincewind53: Russell Davies had just made him so broody that it became somewhat unbearable.


RTD is one of those people who can't just end something or walk away from it; he has to kill it and make you hate it.  If you don't believe me, watch the original Queer As Folk.  It's only about 18 episodes, a season and a half, and when RTD decided there was no reason to continue the story, he shat upon it and then rolled around it.

I'm so glad he hasn't done any more Torchwood since the miniseries, as he'd fark that up, too.
 
2013-12-11 06:00:41 PM  

Fast Moon: The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard. Which is... no.


In The Name of the Doctor, the Great Intelligence states that the Doctor will be known by many names before the end, including the Valeyard, so 10.2 couldn't be the Valeyard because the Doctor doesn't take that title until later.
 
2013-12-11 06:01:10 PM  

blackomne: ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.

If they are going with canon the master is on his 31th regeneration. He used up the first set in the deadly assassin episode. He then stole tremas's body (14th). The timelord's gave him a second set in the the five doctor's episode. Then used them all up in the TV movie when he was executed by the daleks (26th). He then morphed into the snake and possessed another human(27th). The timelords resurrected him in the timewar (28th). Again a third set of regenerations was given to him. Escaped the time war and regenerated into YANA the professor (29th). Regenerated into Harold Saxon (30th). Resurrected?regenerated back into Harold Saxon (31st). And was sent back into the timewar with the rest of the timelords. He he can break the rules that badly. I think we are fine with the doctor coming back.


My count might be high because of the whole dead dead. If you kill them again while they are regenerating. But I think I made my point.
 
2013-12-11 06:10:31 PM  

Stile4aly: Fast Moon: The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard. Which is... no.

In The Name of the Doctor, the Great Intelligence states that the Doctor will be known by many names before the end, including the Valeyard, so 10.2 couldn't be the Valeyard because the Doctor doesn't take that title until later.


Also, as mentioned up-thread, if I remember right the Valeyard is between his 12th and final regeneration, not 12th and 13th, so there is wiggle room.
 
2013-12-11 06:20:21 PM  
There is also the option that the Master lied about the Valeyard. I am pretty sure this is still a possibility?
 
2013-12-11 06:23:46 PM  

Stile4aly: Fast Moon: The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard. Which is... no.

In The Name of the Doctor, the Great Intelligence states that the Doctor will be known by many names before the end, including the Valeyard, so 10.2 couldn't be the Valeyard because the Doctor doesn't take that title until later.


Then... who else could it be?  The Valeyard is defined as something that was created between his 12th and 13th regenerations, so if Smith really is on his 13th regeneration, the Valeyard would have to have been created between Tennant and Smith.

Unless Moffat intends to retcon that, too, which is right up his alley.

The most likely scenario is that he namedropped the Valeyard in the finale before he even came up with the idea of Smith being the last incarnation, because Moffat is awesomest writer and no other writer but him can be trusted with handling the final regeneration, so he's entitled to completely shred the series' continuity to ensure he gets to do it.
 
2013-12-11 06:26:28 PM  

Fast Moon: so he's entitled to completely shred the series' continuity to ensure he gets to do it.


I think they did a pretty good job doing that years before Moffat showed up.

What I'm amazed at is that he can take all these non-connected elements by different writers over many years and find connections between them.

I also like the Sherlock shout-out at the beginning of the trailer;  I can't wait for New Year's Day.
 
2013-12-11 06:28:05 PM  

WallyFenderson: If The Doctor can manage to save Gallifrey from being destroyed, I would think he'd get a whole boatload of 1-Ups.


He "saved it" it in the sense that he convinced himself (retroactively - I LOVE time travel) not to blow the place up. And then time-locked it away from the rest of the universe.   I'm not sure I would be happy with the person who finally let me out of the prison he'd locked me into, even if the explanation was, "Well, my first idea was killing you but I went with this instead."
 
2013-12-11 06:31:24 PM  

quizzical: He "saved it" it in the sense that he convinced himself (retroactively - I LOVE time travel) not to blow the place up. And then time-locked it away from the rest of the universe.


And didn't we already know that Gallifrey was under TIme Lock?  Wasn't there a whole story arc with Timothy Dalton?
 
2013-12-11 06:34:00 PM  

s2s2s2: I was told that if I liked my doctor, I could keep him.

Thanks a lot, Obama!


+1
Would LOL again.
 
2013-12-11 06:36:37 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: quizzical: He "saved it" it in the sense that he convinced himself (retroactively - I LOVE time travel) not to blow the place up. And then time-locked it away from the rest of the universe.

And didn't we already know that Gallifrey was under TIme Lock?  Wasn't there a whole story arc with Timothy Dalton?


Gallifrey was time locked in the moment just before destruction, to be able to prevent anyone from altering the history.

What 8.5, 10 and 11 did was more of a time shift, thereby altering the history.
 
2013-12-11 06:36:43 PM  
Doctor Who/Sherlock crossover?

Please?


/KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!
 
2013-12-11 06:37:14 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: quizzical: He "saved it" it in the sense that he convinced himself (retroactively - I LOVE time travel) not to blow the place up. And then time-locked it away from the rest of the universe.

And didn't we already know that Gallifrey was under TIme Lock?  Wasn't there a whole story arc with Timothy Dalton?


They mentioned that story arc in the episode. The commander said the high council was off making their own plans. Then when the doctor goes to save them he says the high councils plan failed.
 
2013-12-11 06:40:19 PM  

WallyFenderson: New Farkin User Name: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.

Yup.  In "The Five Doctors" (I think), The Master was given a new set of regenerations for helping The Doctor at the request of the Time Lord Council. 

If The Doctor can manage to save Gallifrey from being destroyed, I would think he'd get a whole boatload of 1-Ups.


Yes he saved the gallifreyans but the High council is the one to give him the new set of regenerations. And I am sure they don't like he so much for sending them back into the timewar and timelocking them in a picture.
 
2013-12-11 06:51:30 PM  
I think everyone is missing the important question here: WHEN IS CAPALDI GOING TO BE ON CRAIG FERGUSON?!?
 
2013-12-11 06:54:50 PM  
Just to clear a few points up:

The Master did NOT get a new cycle of regenerations in The Five Doctors.  He was  promised a set if he rescued the Doctor, but he never got it.

Just because the High Council can give a new set of regenerations does not mean it's customer and not biology.  My cardiologist can give me a new heart, but that's absolutely still biology.  What is more, we can presume that it's non-trivial in the extreme, else why would Borusa bother with all of that Death Zone nonsense to get immortality?

Gallifrey is not time-locked.  It's frozen in a pocket universe, a moment in time, but it's not time-locked.  The Time War was time-locked (and presumably still is); since Gallifrey burned at the end (or appeared to), there would be no way to go back to Gallifrey without breaking the time-lock.  But now it's out there, waiting to be discovered.
 
2013-12-11 07:18:41 PM  

s2s2s2: I was told that if I liked my doctor, I could keep him.

Thanks a lot, Obama!


If I had any free TF months left to give out, I'd give you two.
 
2013-12-11 07:25:46 PM  
1st Doctor to 2nd Doctor: Regeneration initiated by the TARDIS ( "It's part of the TARDIS. Without it, I couldn't survive. " ): Does not count.

2nd Doctor to 3rd Doctor: Regeneration initiated by the Timelords: Does not count.

3rd Doctor to 4th Doctor: Regeneration initiated by The Abbot K'anpo ("it just needs a little push"): Does not count.

4th Doctor to 5th Doctor: Regeneration initiated by "timey-wimey" future semi-incarnation The Watcher: Does Not Count.

5th Doctor to 6th Doctor: FIRST TRUE REGENERATION. The Doctor comments, "It feels different this time." It also goes a bit wonky, which isn't a surprise considering it's the first time he's had to perform the feat unaided in any way.

There: Four extra lives. No cheat codes required.
 
2013-12-11 07:26:48 PM  

s2s2s2: I was told that if I liked my doctor, I could keep him.

Thanks a lot, Obama!


Can you sign here for your truckload of Internets?
 
2013-12-11 07:29:35 PM  

bloobeary: 1st Doctor to 2nd Doctor: Regeneration initiated by the TARDIS ( "It's part of the TARDIS. Without it, I couldn't survive. " ): Does not count.

2nd Doctor to 3rd Doctor: Regeneration initiated by the Timelords: Does not count.

3rd Doctor to 4th Doctor: Regeneration initiated by The Abbot K'anpo ("it just needs a little push"): Does not count.

4th Doctor to 5th Doctor: Regeneration initiated by "timey-wimey" future semi-incarnation The Watcher: Does Not Count.

5th Doctor to 6th Doctor: FIRST TRUE REGENERATION. The Doctor comments, "It feels different this time." It also goes a bit wonky, which isn't a surprise considering it's the first time he's had to perform the feat unaided in any way.

There: Four extra lives. No cheat codes required.


In Mawdryn Undead,as I posted above, the Doctor SPECIFICALLY disputes this: "I can regenerate twelve times; I already have done so four times."

But thanks for playing.
 
2013-12-11 07:29:56 PM  

Fast Moon: The Valeyard is defined as something that was created between his 12th and 13th regenerations


grumpfuff: as mentioned up-thread, if I remember right the Valeyard is between his 12th and final regeneration, not 12th and 13th


/emphasis mine
 
2013-12-11 07:41:30 PM  

cheer: In Mawdryn Undead,as I posted above, the Doctor SPECIFICALLY disputes this: "I can regenerate twelve times; I already have done so four times."



Rule number one: The Doctor Lies.
 
2013-12-11 07:42:47 PM  

fusillade762: I think everyone is missing the important question here: WHEN IS CAPALDI GOING TO BE ON CRAIG FERGUSON?!?


Yet more Scottish charm?

And let's not forget: Doctor Who is a kids' show, right?
 
2013-12-11 07:57:51 PM  
cheer:

Gallifrey is not time-locked.  It's frozen in a pocket universe, a moment in time, but it's not time-locked.  The Time War was time-locked (and presumably still is); since Gallifrey burned at the end (or appeared to), there would be no way to go back to Gallifrey without breaking the time-lock.  But now it's out there, waiting to be discovered.

It's in the painting, of course.   Who painted the painting?   Who invited Capaldi to the party?   Who finished the equations that pocketuniversified Galifrey?    Who indeed.
 
2013-12-11 08:30:53 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: MindStalker: The Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode?

So if I Silence turns turns around from a Weeping Angel does the Angel forget the Silence was there?

The viewer forgets when they look away from a Silent, not just because they don't see his face.

Also:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x638]


OK that's an awesome image.
 
2013-12-11 08:36:09 PM  

Fast Moon: Then... who else could it be? The Valeyard is defined as something that was created between his 12th and 13th regenerations, so if Smith really is on his 13th regeneration, the Valeyard would have to have been created between Tennant and Smith



No. As we keep pointing out, the Valeyard is an incarnation from between his 12th and "final" regenerations. They did not say "13th"... They said "final".
 
2013-12-11 08:38:28 PM  

bloobeary: cheer: In Mawdryn Undead,as I posted above, the Doctor SPECIFICALLY disputes this: "I can regenerate twelve times; I already have done so four times."


Rule number one: The Doctor Lies.


Not this time.  It was a central plot point, not a throwaway remark.  The Doctor was clearly upset because he was being asked to give up all of his remaining lies.

Meanwhile, there's zero evidence to back up your "they didn't count" theory, PLUS Moffat has said that a central part of The Time of the Doctor will be the fact that the Doctor is out of regenerations.
 
2013-12-11 08:46:40 PM  

WallyFenderson: Dwight_Yeast: quizzical: He "saved it" it in the sense that he convinced himself (retroactively - I LOVE time travel) not to blow the place up. And then time-locked it away from the rest of the universe.

And didn't we already know that Gallifrey was under TIme Lock?  Wasn't there a whole story arc with Timothy Dalton?

Gallifrey was time locked in the moment just before destruction, to be able to prevent anyone from altering the history.

What 8.5, 10 and 11 did was more of a time shift, thereby altering the history.


No, they did not alter history. At all.

The way we saw it in the special was how it always  happened. We just finally saw the truth, and The Doctor learned it along with us. He rememberedit differently for several regenerations because of the effects of crossing his own timeline (all Doctors except Smith's forgot exactly what happened that day). They even said that to everyone else Gallifrey would appear to be destroyed, and that only Smith's Doctor would recall how the events unfolded and what happened to Gallifrey because HE was the Prime timeline in this event.

No history was altered. Everything is as it always was. The only difference is that now The Doctor knows what really happened that day.
 
2013-12-11 09:41:17 PM  
ZeroCorpse:

No, they did not alter history. At all.

If we define "History" as the recording of events as perceived by everybody else, then yes they altered history.   As we have already seen throughout all the previous seasons of NuWho; the rest of the Universe believes the Time-Lords to be lost.   They show up at no other point in the future, and if they had then the Doctor should have been able to detect their presence during his previous adventures.

What happened in the 50th (as specifically stated by 11) was he took the opportunity of meeting his past selves to offer an alternative to his decision to uses the Moment to Destroy both Gallifrey and the Daleks  as a last resort.   That he was able to change events after that decision is a direct alteration of events as  history recorded them, and was only possible because the Moment itself allowed the intervention.

Whether this altered "reality" to change what had happened before into what has happened now is all Timey-Wimey Sand-Shoes at this point.

It still doesn't answer the question of if (and when) a future Doctor is able to find and unfreeze Gallifrey, why the 9th thru 11th Doctors  (and the rest of the Universe) were not able to notice.   Unless there is a convoluted story of the Doctor then having to find another way to hide the planet so even his ability to sense others of his race would be blocked.
 
2013-12-11 09:48:35 PM  

blackomne: Dwight_Yeast: quizzical: He "saved it" it in the sense that he convinced himself (retroactively - I LOVE time travel) not to blow the place up. And then time-locked it away from the rest of the universe.

And didn't we already know that Gallifrey was under TIme Lock?  Wasn't there a whole story arc with Timothy Dalton?

They mentioned that story arc in the episode. The commander said the high council was off making their own plans. Then when the doctor goes to save them he says the high councils plan failed.


Ah, I've watched the 50th a couple times and that hadn't sunken in.

ZeroCorpse: No history was altered. Everything is as it always was. The only difference is that now The Doctor knows what really happened that day.


Which was the whole point of the climatic scene where we see the other Doctors "hiding" in Galifrey Falls No More.
 
2013-12-11 09:50:21 PM  
Thanks for the TF, Bathia_Mapes!
 
2013-12-11 10:40:33 PM  
I absolutely hated Matt Smith when he started out.  And I can tell you exactly what it was about him that drove me crazy.  I referred to him as "The Doctor who yells." because that is what he did in every episode.  Spent half of it yelling for one reason or another.

Amy on the other hand I don't think I'll ever know if I liked her as a companion.  I mean yes I liked her but I'm not sure if it was because she was a good companion or because any time she was on screen all I could think about is how cute she is.  Well, except for the old version.  But even then I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating fish fingers.
 
2013-12-11 10:41:30 PM  
1.  River didn't give the Doctor her remaining regenerations, she used them to heal him.  Think of it as the difference between giving him money vs. spending that money at a hospital to treat him.

2.  Using the Master as a reason why it is a rule and not biological (or other) is dumb.  Why?  Because he's the Master.  If it was just a rule would he wander around like the Crypt Keeper until he steals Nyssa's dad's body?  No.  He would say rules, scmules, I'm the Master.  I farking regenerate as often as I like.
 
2013-12-11 10:55:14 PM  
I think the shots of 11 with a cane is interesting, considering the supposed spoilers that have leaked regarding the episode.
 
2013-12-11 11:21:04 PM  
If I had to cast a Valeyard based on the new continuity:

4.bp.blogspot.com

After all, we know he's in there somewhere.
 
2013-12-11 11:44:32 PM  

PirateKing: If I had to cast a Valeyard based on the new continuity:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]

After all, we know he's in there somewhere.


The episode explicitly explains who and what he is. He refers to himself as the Dreamlord, so I'll call him that. He's a psychic creation created from some seeds, or something like that, that were trapped and activated within the TARDIS. He's not an "actual", existing person(see: the Doctor flicking something through the Dreamlord, and he "flickers"). The Dreamlord is explicitly referenced as a manifestation of his darker side based on the psychic seed thingies, not as an actual regeneration.

Of course, it is Doctor Who, so anything can happen, but of all the possibilities for the Valeyard, I find the Dreamlord to be pretty low on the list.
 
2013-12-12 12:00:13 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I think the shots of 11 with a cane is interesting, considering the supposed spoilers that have leaked regarding the episode.


Yeah...it looks like this is going to be a very "Christmassy" episode indeed.

/sarcasm
//really, though, it looks like it will be awesome
 
2013-12-12 12:27:03 AM  

BunkyBrewman: Stick with it.  We all loved David Tennant, but Smith has done a decent job as the Doctor.


No we didn't.
 
2013-12-12 12:31:05 AM  

mjbok: 1.  River didn't give the Doctor her remaining regenerations, she used them to heal him.  Think of it as the difference between giving him money vs. spending that money at a hospital to treat him.

2.  Using the Master as a reason why it is a rule and not biological (or other) is dumb.  Why?  Because he's the Master.  If it was just a rule would he wander around like the Crypt Keeper until he steals Nyssa's dad's body?  No.  He would say rules, scmules, I'm the Master.  I farking regenerate as often as I like.


The Doctor does  not have a limit on his regenerations.  How do I know this?  There is no fark'n way BBC will let this massive money generator end because of a rule made up on the spot in some writers room 40ish years ago.

/this line of debate is completely silly
 
2013-12-12 12:48:23 AM  

grumpfuff: PirateKing: If I had to cast a Valeyard based on the new continuity:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]

After all, we know he's in there somewhere.

The episode explicitly explains who and what he is. He refers to himself as the Dreamlord, so I'll call him that. He's a psychic creation created from some seeds, or something like that, that were trapped and activated within the TARDIS. He's not an "actual", existing person(see: the Doctor flicking something through the Dreamlord, and he "flickers"). The Dreamlord is explicitly referenced as a manifestation of his darker side based on the psychic seed thingies, not as an actual regeneration.


That's the point of PirateKing's post: he would use that actor to play the Valeyard if he were able to cast that role.

Why?

Because he is a manifestation of the Doctor's darker side. Since we know regenerations can be controlled (cf. 8's regen into 9, Mel's "concentrating on a dress size", Yana's desire to be "young and strong" like the Doctor, etc), perhaps the Doctor, when he becomes the Valeyard, harkens back to his "Dreamlord" image and assumes it.
 
2013-12-12 01:17:21 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: grumpfuff: PirateKing: If I had to cast a Valeyard based on the new continuity:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]

After all, we know he's in there somewhere.

The episode explicitly explains who and what he is. He refers to himself as the Dreamlord, so I'll call him that. He's a psychic creation created from some seeds, or something like that, that were trapped and activated within the TARDIS. He's not an "actual", existing person(see: the Doctor flicking something through the Dreamlord, and he "flickers"). The Dreamlord is explicitly referenced as a manifestation of his darker side based on the psychic seed thingies, not as an actual regeneration.

That's the point of PirateKing's post: he would use that actor to play the Valeyard if he were able to cast that role.

Why?

Because he is a manifestation of the Doctor's darker side. Since we know regenerations can be controlled (cf. 8's regen into 9, Mel's "concentrating on a dress size", Yana's desire to be "young and strong" like the Doctor, etc), perhaps the Doctor, when he becomes the Valeyard, harkens back to his "Dreamlord" image and assumes it.


Problem is the Valeyard has already been cast as..whoever the actor was when he was on the show. To bring him back and cast him as someone else, they would need to explain it. Did the Valeyard regenerate again? Or change his form somehow else? I also seem to recall the Valeyard being killed off in one of the books, though admittedly that's not necessarily cannon.

To be blunt, I don't really see them bringing the Valeyard back. To me, dropping the name in "Name of the Doctor" was just a nod to the past, nothing more.
 
2013-12-12 01:22:15 AM  

mjbok: River didn't give the Doctor her remaining regenerations, she used them to heal him.


cheer: He didn't get extra regenerations from her; he just got healed.


Yes, and how did she heal him? For that matter, why did she need to heal him? He was dying, sure, but what normally happens when he is dying? He regenerates. That's the way it's always been; whenever he was dying he would regenerate before death.

But, since we know that 10 used up two regenerations, 11 was on the 12th, which means he had no more (if we go with the 12 regen limit is a physical one and not social custom). So Mel/River gave him hers in an attempt to save him, giving him the energy to regenerate. Only she gave up all of them "in one go" -- how many regenerations' worth of energy would he need to heal/regenerate but once?

Not to say that that will be what they go with, but it makes sense. Knowing Moffat, they'll go with something "clever" rather than the obvious one. After all, these are the people who said "Yeup, that's the Doc" when 'he' was shot at Silencio -- no way that's "a clone or a duplicate or something", "That most certainly is the Doctor. And he is most certainly dead" -- and then went ahead and made it "a clone or a duplicate or something".

So, basically, whatever.
 
2013-12-12 01:30:54 AM  

grumpfuff: Problem is the Valeyard has already been cast as..whoever the actor was when he was on the show. To bring him back and cast him as someone else, they would need to explain it. Did the Valeyard regenerate again? Or change his form somehow else? I also seem to recall the Valeyard being killed off in one of the books, though admittedly that's not necessarily cannon.

To be blunt, I don't really see them bringing the Valeyard back. To me, dropping the name in "Name of the Doctor" was just a nod to the past, nothing more.


Well, yes. I was merely explaining the other guy's reasoning for why he cast that role that way; not saying the character would ever appear and why the Valeyard might look like that.

Going the other way, however: why might he look different from the one in the earlier broadcast? 1) That actor is too old to play the role again

www.diamondmanagement.co.uk
and 2) recasting a role isn't exactly a new idea in the realm of television. Sure, they usually go with someone who kinda-sorta looks like the previous actor, but not always.

As to how to explain it? "The Valeyard" is a title just like "The Doctor", so yeah, maybe the Valeyard did regenerate a few times between assumption of the name and the final regeneration.
 
2013-12-12 01:31:04 AM  

bulsd: Rhypskallion: After the 50th, even a regeneration/villains unite story will just be kinda 'Meh'.   Which is exactly how Russell T Davies should depart the show.   Meh.

<blah blah from family>

Oh.  Davies is not leaving?   Well FARK.   He's the one who needs to go, not necessarily Smith.

Do you mean Moffett?  Davies has been gone for a long time...


Do you meant Moffat?  I think Moffet should come back.


i162.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-12 01:32:55 AM  

New Farkin User Name: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.


They already threw them out.

Remember how the Valeyard is there between the 12th and final regeneration? It's not like he decided to be just some other asshole - that's a whole regeneration.

Continuity that prevents the show from continuing will be shelved, obviously.
 
2013-12-12 01:32:59 AM  
Of course, by Moffet, I mean Moffett.  I did get Moffat right though.
 
2013-12-12 01:48:40 AM  

gingerjet: The Doctor does  not have a limit on his regenerations.  How do I know this?  There is no fark'n way BBC will let this massive money generator end because of a rule made up on the spot in some writers room 40ish years ago.

/this line of debate is completely silly


It is also obvious in every action movie that the hero is going to win in the end also, but the fun of the story is how he wins in the end. It's the same thing with this. We know that at some point the regeneration limit will be addressed and a loophole found. We just don't know when and how.
 
2013-12-12 02:36:32 AM  

jonny_q: Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing.


Yep, totally Moffat's fault.  Oh wait, he didn't write The Reichenbach Fall, Stephen Thompson did.


jonny_q:  Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.

Yep, totally Moffat's problem.  Oh wait, he didn't write The Empty Hearse, Mark Gattis did.


I know all the "cool kids" are into Moffat bashing, but at least complain about things he actually wrote.

/He wrote A Study in Pink, A Scandal in Belgravia, and His Last Vow
//He also doesn't direct or produce the show
///He's one of six executive producers, though
////With his wife and her mum
 
2013-12-12 03:09:07 AM  

if_i_really_have_to: I know all the "cool kids" are into Moffat bashing, but at least complain about things he actually wrote.

/He wrote A Study in Pink, A Scandal in Belgravia, and His Last Vow
//He also doesn't direct or produce the show


A Scandal in Belgravia is still terrible.

He and Gattis created the show on the London-Cardiff train while they were filming on a Gattis-penned episode of Doctor Who, so I'd imagine the two of them (and various others) still work out story arcs and little things like "how do  we kill Sherlock and then bring him back?" on the train.

/For those who don't know, Doctor Who is produced by BBC Wales for reasons which passeth understanding, probably having to with open-cut mines.
//And all the TV people in the UK live in or around London
///So everyone who works on the show commutes
 
2013-12-12 04:16:13 AM  

Rwa2play: grumpfuff: ArcadianRefugee: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

What rules? The Master was last seen on his -- what? -- 14th? 15th regeneration?

If he can do it, so can the Doc.

The Master was given a new set of regenerations by the Timelords. Granted, there is the whole "it's custom, not biology" argument out there.

Since they've made no reference otherwise, I'm assuming they did the same thing for the Doctor as well.

It has been referenced.  From the Tardis Database Wiki:
 One theory held that Cardinal Rassilon had been investigating a method of regenerating decayed and diseased tissue via a series of self-replicating, biogenic molecules. The cells of a Gallifreyan body would be repaired, restored and re-organised, resulting in a wholly new physical form. The brain cells would also be rearranged, though to a lesser extent; the new incarnation would retain the memories of the former incarnation, though the personality of the Time Lord or Lady could change, the degree of this change depending upon the Time Lord or Lady in question. Rassilon intended this mechanism only for the Gallifreyan elite. He also input a parameter of twelve regenerative cycles to avoid decaying biogenic molecules. (AUDIO: Zagreus)
Another explanation stated that Time Lords had triple-helix DNA: the third strand was added by Rassilon to enable regeneration. (PROSE: The Crystal Bucephalus)



BBC won't state what is canon and what is not, since it is too dififcult to define at this point.  However,  officially licensed stories on audio and book form are considered official in the Who universe.  So the above theories could be taken as correct, or not, depending on your point of view.
 
2013-12-12 04:40:00 AM  

SpiritfireM: BBC won't state what is canon and what is not, since it is too dififcult to define at this point.


You can bet your ass that they have a bible, though, at least starting from Ten on.
 
2013-12-12 08:57:58 AM  

Bazzlex001: There is also the option that the Master lied about the Valeyard. I am pretty sure this is still a possibility?


Possible, but unlikely. My guess is that the regeneration to Post-Twelve will involve some sort of radical change, such that Twelve really is The Doctor's last incarnation, From A Certain Point of View. What exactly that might mean, I've no clue, but I don't think the BBC will handwave this as "The Master was lying."
 
2013-12-12 09:02:02 AM  

gingerjet: mjbok: 1.  River didn't give the Doctor her remaining regenerations, she used them to heal him.  Think of it as the difference between giving him money vs. spending that money at a hospital to treat him.

2.  Using the Master as a reason why it is a rule and not biological (or other) is dumb.  Why?  Because he's the Master.  If it was just a rule would he wander around like the Crypt Keeper until he steals Nyssa's dad's body?  No.  He would say rules, scmules, I'm the Master.  I farking regenerate as often as I like.

The Doctor does  not have a limit on his regenerations.  How do I know this?  There is no fark'n way BBC will let this massive money generator end because of a rule made up on the spot in some writers room 40ish years ago.


I'd phrase it a little differently. The Doctor does indeed have a limit, but for exactly the reasons you cite, it is clear that he will somehow circumvent that limit. The real question is, how will he do it? We've seen half a dozen possibilities just in NuWho alone; all the BBC has to do is pick one when the time comes.
 
2013-12-12 09:02:03 AM  

cheer: bloobeary: 1st Doctor to 2nd Doctor: Regeneration initiated by the TARDIS ( "It's part of the TARDIS. Without it, I couldn't survive. " ): Does not count.

2nd Doctor to 3rd Doctor: Regeneration initiated by the Timelords: Does not count.

3rd Doctor to 4th Doctor: Regeneration initiated by The Abbot K'anpo ("it just needs a little push"): Does not count.

4th Doctor to 5th Doctor: Regeneration initiated by "timey-wimey" future semi-incarnation The Watcher: Does Not Count.

5th Doctor to 6th Doctor: FIRST TRUE REGENERATION. The Doctor comments, "It feels different this time." It also goes a bit wonky, which isn't a surprise considering it's the first time he's had to perform the feat unaided in any way.

There: Four extra lives. No cheat codes required.

In Mawdryn Undead,as I posted above, the Doctor SPECIFICALLY disputes this: "I can regenerate twelve times; I already have done so four times."

But thanks for playing.


Rule 1: The Doctor lies
This rule is always in play no matter how long ago it was stated.

Secondly: Both can be correct as he could of regenerated 4 times previous but only 1 actually counted to his regeneration cycle.
 
2013-12-12 09:08:17 AM  

SpiritfireM: BBC won't state what is canon and what is not, since it is too dififcult to define at this point.  However,  officially licensed stories on audio and book form are considered official in the Who universe.  So the above theories could be taken as correct, or not, depending on your point of view.


It's such a useless debate anyway. The only reason a concept of "canon" exists is because Gene Roddenberry wanted to reward one of his sycophantic flunkies, but was notoriously stingy with pay raises. So completely out of his ass, he invented the concept of a continuity manager to approve/disapprove licensed Star Trek works.

Two generations later, and 2/3 of every genre franchise's nerd debates revolve around the concept of "canon" and "non-canon." The writers and producers don't give a flying fark one way or the other. The script editors have a bible, and the showrunner will ultimately decide whether or not some random reference to book, cartoon, audio play, short story, or scribblings on a napkin can be referenced on screen.
 
2013-12-12 09:26:31 AM  

Millennium: I'd phrase it a little differently. The Doctor does indeed have a limit, but for exactly the reasons you cite, it is clear that he will somehow circumvent that limit. The real question is, how will he do it? We've seen half a dozen possibilities just in NuWho alone; all the BBC has to do is pick one when the time comes.


Obviously they've already picked one, and if you've stumbled across the full summary of the Christmas Special (which is LOADED with spoilers), you already know what it is.

/Accidentally stumbled across it and read it
//Sorry I did, but no sense closing the barn door when the horse has already bought a house in Jamaica
 
2013-12-12 09:41:32 AM  

cheer: //Sorry I did, but no sense closing the barn door when the horse has already bought a house in Jamaica


This is why you don't let your horse use the internet or have access to your credit cards. Marriage is dangerous enough on its own.

Also, this is possibly the nerdiest thread I've seen on Fark.
 
2013-12-12 09:57:38 AM  

Feepit: cheer: //Sorry I did, but no sense closing the barn door when the horse has already bought a house in Jamaica

This is why you don't let your horse use the internet or have access to your credit cards. Marriage is dangerous enough on its own.


It's just...dammit, I thought we could trust each other.

Also, this is possibly the nerdiest thread I've seen on Fark.

It's definitely above the median, but I'm pretty sure I've seen nerdier.  But this is probably the best Who thread I've seen in a while.
 
2013-12-12 11:16:59 AM  

MadSkillz: New Farkin User Name: NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.

I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.

They already threw them out.

Remember how the Valeyard is there between the 12th and final regeneration? It's not like he decided to be just some other asshole - that's a whole regeneration.

Continuity that prevents the show from continuing will be shelved, obviously.


Actually I don't think the Valeyard is the doctor at all. They said he is a distillation of the doctor's darker side. I think he was pulled out of the doctor and became his own persona.
 
2013-12-12 11:27:19 AM  

blackomne: Actually I don't think the Valeyard is the doctor at all. They said he is a distillation of the doctor's darker side. I think he was pulled out of the doctor and became his own persona.


Yeah, this.

Personally I doubt we'll see the Valeyard anytime soon.  I think the mention in The Name of the Doctor was just meant to be a nifty reference.
 
2013-12-12 11:50:23 AM  
So is the 'afraid to talk like grownups' foreshadowing a possible change in the 'tone' of the Doctor's dialog in future seasons?
 
2013-12-12 11:55:06 AM  

Rhypskallion: So is the 'afraid to talk like grownups' foreshadowing a possible change in the 'tone' of the Doctor's dialog in future seasons?


Could well be.  Especially given that we're getting an older actor in the role.
 
2013-12-12 12:21:10 PM  

Esroc: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

They are. But people are going to argue about the naming convention for the entirety of Doctor Who's run from here on out. It's the U.N.I.T. dating protocol all over again.


Yeah but that's us out here, inside the show they never really called out the number implicitly just implied it.  Its just really always been "The Doctor"  as a character.
 
2013-12-12 12:52:48 PM  

cheer: Millennium: I'd phrase it a little differently. The Doctor does indeed have a limit, but for exactly the reasons you cite, it is clear that he will somehow circumvent that limit. The real question is, how will he do it? We've seen half a dozen possibilities just in NuWho alone; all the BBC has to do is pick one when the time comes.

Obviously they've already picked one, and if you've stumbled across the full summary of the Christmas Special (which is LOADED with spoilers), you already know what it is.


Took me surprisingly long to find the summary. It's sensible, assuming it's real, but answering that question right now seems rather un-Moffat-ish. There are ways he could have left things unclear for at least another season: maybe even more, depending on how long Capaldi stays. I have trouble believing that Moffat would voluntarily answer this one so soon.

That's the only reason I have to doubt the preview, and I admit that it's perhaps too meta.
 
2013-12-12 01:41:18 PM  

Millennium: Took me surprisingly long to find the summary. It's sensible, assuming it's real, but answering that question right now seems rather un-Moffat-ish. There are ways he could have left things unclear for at least another season: maybe even more, depending on how long Capaldi stays. I have trouble believing that Moffat would voluntarily answer this one so soon.


Maybe, but honestly if they'd just ignored the Stolen Earth/Journey's End regeneration, I would have been rather annoyed.  It counted; to me it always felt like it counted.  I mean, why wouldn't it?  So I was  relieved to learn Moffat was tackling this head-on.
 
2013-12-12 02:11:07 PM  

Esroc: jonny_q: Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.

I guess that's why people liked Donna. She didn't swoon. I would rather have had Martha stick around a lot longer and just not swoon.

Amy was fine. The whole swooning ended around the second episode. Watching she and Rory treat the Doctor basically as a son-in-law, even before he WAS one, was fun as hell.

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

They are going to have to explain that shiat. That's what gets me about Moffet. When he wants to go big, he goes farking BIG.  BAM! The Doctor is now 200 years older, without much explanation what he did for 200 years. BAM! Now there's a whole regeneration we have shoehorned in without considering much how that affects things. Destroy the whole universe as if it never existed and then wake it up as if nothing happened? Sure thing!

Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.

There's nothing to explain, really. Technically every Doctor after Hurt's has been bumped up one notch. Capaldi is the 13th Doctor. Technically. But before the events of DoTD the Doctor did not acknowledge that regen, even though he knew good and well that people referring to him as the 9th, 10th, or 11th regeneration was incorrect.

I'd like to see Capaldi just correct someone sometime during his run. Have someone refer to him as the 12th Doctor and he responds, "Thirteenth, actually" then goes about his business with no further explanation. It would put the whole argument to rest and further drive home the idea that The ...


But at least we know who the doctors room in the God Complex
 
2013-12-12 02:41:42 PM  

onzmadi: But at least we know who the doctors room in the God Complex


I think you the whole thing.
 
2013-12-12 03:37:55 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: if_i_really_have_to: I know all the "cool kids" are into Moffat bashing, but at least complain about things he actually wrote.

/He wrote A Study in Pink, A Scandal in Belgravia, and His Last Vow
//He also doesn't direct or produce the show

A Scandal in Belgravia is still terrible.

He and Gattis created the show on the London-Cardiff train while they were filming on a Gattis-penned episode of Doctor Who, so I'd imagine the two of them (and various others) still work out story arcs and little things like "how do  we kill Sherlock and then bring him back?" on the train.

/For those who don't know, Doctor Who is produced by BBC Wales for reasons which passeth understanding, probably having to with open-cut mines.
//And all the TV people in the UK live in or around London
///So everyone who works on the show commutes


And it's my favorite episode and was nominated for 13 Emmys.

I love how those in the minority bark their opinions as if they were the standard.
 
2013-12-12 03:41:29 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: A Scandal in Belgravia is still terrible.


0/10, too obvious. Would not bite again.
 
2013-12-12 04:26:09 PM  
Santa shows up and gives the Doctor a new set of regenerations, hurrah!
 
2013-12-12 05:01:22 PM  

NathanAllen: Santa shows up and gives the Doctor a new set of regenerations, hurrah!


The punchline being that "Santa" is some kind of eldritch horror, more akin to Krampus than Santa as we typically think of him. He feeds off the pain of the people he hits with his switches.
 
2013-12-13 12:14:08 AM  

cheer: Rhypskallion: So is the 'afraid to talk like grownups' foreshadowing a possible change in the 'tone' of the Doctor's dialog in future seasons?

Could well be.  Especially given that we're getting an older actor in the role.


Capaldi definitely had his "serious eyes" on in that brief glimpse from The Day of The Doctor. Playtime's over.
 
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