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(Den of Geek (US))   "Eleven's hour is over, the clock is striking twelve" Trailer for Doctor Who 2013 x-mas special released   (denofgeek.us) divider line 148
    More: Cool, Eleventh Doctor, previews, Cybermen  
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2533 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Dec 2013 at 2:23 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-11 12:41:16 PM
*sniff*
 
2013-12-11 12:44:54 PM
i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.
 
2013-12-11 12:49:32 PM

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.


We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.
 
2013-12-11 01:31:09 PM

kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.

We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.


I had almost gotten tired of Tennant by the end of his run. Russell Davies had just made him so  broody that it became somewhat unbearable.
 
2013-12-11 01:45:32 PM
I hate those damn weeping angels.

kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.

We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.


Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.


Stick with it.  We all loved David Tennant, but Smith has done a decent job as the Doctor.
 
2013-12-11 02:26:21 PM
... Last season STILL isn't on Netflix streaming.

/farking disappointed over here
 
2013-12-11 02:26:31 PM
I am anticipating the room getting very, very dusty.
 
2013-12-11 02:29:16 PM
Nope, not going to watch it.  I refuse to watch it.  I've had enough of the spoilers reducing the suspense of what is coming next!

/probably going to watch it
 
2013-12-11 02:30:17 PM
After the 50th, even a regeneration/villains unite story will just be kinda 'Meh'.   Which is exactly how Russell T Davies should depart the show.   Meh.

<blah blah from family>

Oh.  Davies is not leaving?   Well FARK.   He's the one who needs to go, not necessarily Smith.
 
2013-12-11 02:33:26 PM
Um, I have a request, if I may ... Can we dispense with the numbering arguments, for once, in a Fark Doctor Who thread? Those discussions get real tedious. Thanks.
 
2013-12-11 02:33:36 PM

Rhypskallion: After the 50th, even a regeneration/villains unite story will just be kinda 'Meh'.   Which is exactly how Russell T Davies should depart the show.   Meh.

<blah blah from family>

Oh.  Davies is not leaving?   Well FARK.   He's the one who needs to go, not necessarily Smith.


Do you mean Moffett?  Davies has been gone for a long time...
 
2013-12-11 02:37:41 PM
In before spamdog comes along and biatches about Doctor Who threads.
 
2013-12-11 02:39:14 PM

Rincewind53: kronicfeld: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.

We felt the same way; the change from David Tennant was just so abrupt. But he grows on you, as do Amy and Rory.

I had almost gotten tired of Tennant by the end of his run. Russell Davies had just made him so  broody that it became somewhat unbearable.


Honestly I didn't really get that feeling until Waters of Mars, where it was done specifically  because he was leaving.
 
2013-12-11 02:39:15 PM

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 13 is better.


FTFY.
 
2013-12-11 02:39:44 PM
I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.
 
2013-12-11 02:40:27 PM

phaseolus: Um, I have a request, if I may ... Can we dispense with the numbering arguments, for once, in a Fark Doctor Who thread? Those discussions get real tedious. Thanks.


Oh.

Sorry.
 
2013-12-11 02:40:53 PM
BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.
 
2013-12-11 02:42:21 PM
bulsd:
Do you mean Moffett?  Davies has been gone for a long time...

I need an editor.   Do you work cheap?  I mean <free>really cheap?

I do indeed mean Moffett.

On other topic, I agree, the story of Rory is underdeveloped.
 
2013-12-11 02:45:12 PM

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


According to Moffatt and a majority of those who write and run the show, the canon is like this:

The Doctor has used 11 of his regenerations.  With Smith's departure, Capaldi will be the 13th body.

BUT, as far as "Doctors" goes, They're simply not counting John Hurt's character as "the Doctor."  He's "The War Doctor", a regeneration "unworthy to carry the name of the Doctor."

Which personally I don't buy, but... *shrugs*
 
2013-12-11 02:45:36 PM

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


They are. But people are going to argue about the naming convention for the entirety of Doctor Who's run from here on out. It's the U.N.I.T. dating protocol all over again.
 
2013-12-11 02:45:57 PM

Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.


They need to stick with the male and female companion pair. It seems to have worked well every time they have done it throughout the series. It also provides a love interest besides the doctor.
 
2013-12-11 02:46:22 PM

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


that's what day of doctor said. it specifically showed capaldi's eyes and said "13"
 
2013-12-11 02:50:30 PM

Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.


I guess that's why people liked Donna. She didn't swoon. I would rather have had Martha stick around a lot longer and just not swoon.

Amy was fine. The whole swooning ended around the second episode. Watching she and Rory treat the Doctor basically as a son-in-law, even before he WAS one, was fun as hell.

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


They are going to have to explain that shiat. That's what gets me about Moffet. When he wants to go big, he goes farking BIG.  BAM! The Doctor is now 200 years older, without much explanation what he did for 200 years. BAM! Now there's a whole regeneration we have shoehorned in without considering much how that affects things. Destroy the whole universe as if it never existed and then wake it up as if nothing happened? Sure thing!

Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.
 
2013-12-11 02:54:26 PM

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.


Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14
 
2013-12-11 02:57:00 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-11 02:57:10 PM

jonny_q: Akuinnen: BunkyBrewman:

Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory.  That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on.

I agree... I thought Rory was awesome. I guess they want the focus on the female companion these days. The swooning female companion is getting old for me. Well I should say "getting" it was annoying as soon as Rose did it.

I guess that's why people liked Donna. She didn't swoon. I would rather have had Martha stick around a lot longer and just not swoon.

Amy was fine. The whole swooning ended around the second episode. Watching she and Rory treat the Doctor basically as a son-in-law, even before he WAS one, was fun as hell.

Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

They are going to have to explain that shiat. That's what gets me about Moffet. When he wants to go big, he goes farking BIG.  BAM! The Doctor is now 200 years older, without much explanation what he did for 200 years. BAM! Now there's a whole regeneration we have shoehorned in without considering much how that affects things. Destroy the whole universe as if it never existed and then wake it up as if nothing happened? Sure thing!

Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.


There's nothing to explain, really. Technically every Doctor after Hurt's has been bumped up one notch. Capaldi is the 13th Doctor. Technically. But before the events of DoTD the Doctor did not acknowledge that regen, even though he knew good and well that people referring to him as the 9th, 10th, or 11th regeneration was incorrect.

I'd like to see Capaldi just correct someone sometime during his run. Have someone refer to him as the 12th Doctor and he responds, "Thirteenth, actually" then goes about his business with no further explanation. It would put the whole argument to rest and further drive home the idea that The Doctor has comes to terms with his past and moved on.
 
2013-12-11 03:03:12 PM

cretinbob: Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


now THAT is interesting.  But, they still have River's regens to fall back on.
 
2013-12-11 03:03:23 PM

ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.


I think most had that reaction with Smith, but it does get better.

Looking forward to the new season

BunkyBrewman: Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory. That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on


I would like to see more of the Captain Jack/Face of Bo story line. Because they dropped that one like a bomb and that was it. I do agree though, Rory was an awesome character
 
2013-12-11 03:03:32 PM

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.
 
2013-12-11 03:05:08 PM

Unoriginal_Username: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 is better.

I think most had that reaction with Smith, but it does get better.

Looking forward to the new season

BunkyBrewman: Too bad they didn't expand the story line of Rory. That character definitely became more interesting as the show went on

I would like to see more of the Captain Jack/Face of Bo story line. Because they dropped that one like a bomb and that was it. I do agree though, Rory was an awesome character


Also, don't let Captain Jack end with "Miracle Day".  Holy fark, did that suck.  Give him one last good story.
 
2013-12-11 03:06:49 PM

fawlty: cretinbob: Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

now THAT is interesting.  But, they still have River's regens to fall back on.


He didn't get extra regenerations from her; he just got healed.

The Doctor will be getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.
 
2013-12-11 03:14:58 PM

NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.


I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.
 
2013-12-11 03:16:43 PM
Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...
 
2013-12-11 03:19:51 PM

New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.


That's what I thought they would do, but Moffet's statements about Smith's Doctor being in trouble regarding regens suggests that it may not just be custom or law.
 
2013-12-11 03:22:20 PM

WippitGuud: ManateeGag: i just started watching Matt Smith, and I can't stand him or Amy Pond.  I'm hoping it gets better and I sure hope 12 13 is better.

FTFY.


I know, i didn't want to rustle any jimmies.
 
2013-12-11 03:23:05 PM

New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.


I've seen those arguments, but they strike me as largely bullsh*t ones without any sort of evidence.  I mean, would the Master have really obeyed that custom or law?

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...


Except in Mawdryn Undead the Fifth Doctor clearly states that he's regenerated four times already.  So, here's what we've got:

1: Hartnell->Troughton
2: Troughton->Pertwee
3: Pertwee->T. Baker
4: T.Baker->Davison
5: Davison->C. Baker
6: C. Baker->McCoy
7: McCoy->McGann
8: McGann->Hurt
9: Hurt->Eccleston
10: Eccleston->Tennant
11: Tennant->Tennant (Stolen Earth/Journey's End, and yes, it counts)
12: Tennant->Smith

That's 12 of 12 consumed.  He's getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.  Book it.
 
2013-12-11 03:30:28 PM

cheer: fawlty: cretinbob: Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

now THAT is interesting.  But, they still have River's regens to fall back on.

He didn't get extra regenerations from her; he just got healed.

The Doctor will be getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.


Yup. They have already confirmed he is going back to Trenzalore, where he dies. Clara is pleading in the trailer to someone to help the Doctor change his future. But this is officially a plot element. The Doctor will die because he has no further regenerations, so something must happen.
 
2013-12-11 03:44:06 PM

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard.  Which is... no.  The entire point of that character was to allow some version of the Doctor to experience the fleeting, ordinary life of a human that he'd been wistfully talking about for four freakin' seasons.  And to give Rose a consolation prize to get her out of everyone's hair.  To make him come back and try to steal the regenerations of his Time Lord self does a complete disservice to that resolution and I sincerely hope that's not the route Moffat is taking.

But, since he already turned the tragedy that spanned the first four seasons into irony with the retcon in the 50th, I won't hold my breath.

How to write a Moffat episode:
1. Start with a gimmick
2. Write the characters as tools to drive the gimmick, rather than a story to drive the characters
3. Ignore everything that has already been established
4. If something is too big to ignore, spend no more than 30 seconds handwaving it away.
5. Have someone repeat something incessantly
6. Have a monster that looks scary, but otherwise has no tangible motive other than "look scary".  And repeat stuff incessantly.
7. Kill off a character, but never permanently.  Feel free to kill them multiple times in one episode if you like.
8. Give everyone and everything important-sounding pseudonyms.
9. Have characters treat every minor revelation like the most profound and clever twist ever
10. Have a female character stand in a spotlight and give a monologue about how the Doctor is the bestest man ever
11. Have the Doctor stand in the spotlight and give a monologue about he's the bestest man ever, and have this monologue solve everything without the Doctor actually having to do anything
12. And most importantly: Tell, don't show!
 
2013-12-11 03:46:20 PM
Instead of arguing about the numbers, I would rather state that this looks like it will be AWESOME.  I've always thought that more Christmas specials could use a copious amount of explosions.

Oh, did anyone notice in the trailer Matt Smith looks old?  Yes, I've read the spoilers (really hard to avoid them, really)...but I have to say, he looks even more badass as a crotchety old guy.  This special is going to be great.
 
2013-12-11 03:46:34 PM

fawlty: That's what I thought they would do, but Moffet's statements about


....let me stop you right there.

Let's not worry ourselves with reconciling the words of a hack that loves to make shiat up as he goes along.

I'm pretty sure there are people completely indifferent to the show that care about it many times more than Moffet does.
 
2013-12-11 03:48:22 PM

jonny_q: Same with Sherlock, if you saw the last episode, which I won't spoil. Ok, Moffat, you did the incredibly big thing. Now, you sure better be able to dig out of it.


He took that basic event right from the books. It wasn't HIS incredibly big thing.
 
2013-12-11 03:51:46 PM

cheer: New Farkin User Name: I've seen arguments that Time Lords not regenerating past 13 was more of a social convention, custom or law, and not necessarily hard-wired into one's biology.

I've seen those arguments, but they strike me as largely bullsh*t ones without any sort of evidence.  I mean, would the Master have really obeyed that custom or law?

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated.  He was forced to change by the timelords.  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

SO:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton/Pertwee
3) Baker I
4) that blonde guy who is Bob Denverish
5) Baker II
6) etc...

Except in Mawdryn Undead the Fifth Doctor clearly states that he's regenerated four times already.  So, here's what we've got:

1: Hartnell->Troughton
2: Troughton->Pertwee
3: Pertwee->T. Baker
4: T.Baker->Davison
5: Davison->C. Baker
6: C. Baker->McCoy
7: McCoy->McGann
8: McGann->Hurt
9: Hurt->Eccleston
10: Eccleston->Tennant
11: Tennant->Tennant (Stolen Earth/Journey's End, and yes, it counts)
12: Tennant->Smith

That's 12 of 12 consumed.  He's getting a new cycle of regenerations this Christmas.  Book it.


Taking a page from the DOT:

Hartnell - The 1963 Doctor
Troughton - The 1966 Doctor
Pertwee - The 1970 Doctor
Tom Baker - The 1974 Doctor
Davison - The 1981 Doctor
Colin Baker - The 1984 Doctor
McCoy - The 1987 Doctor
McGann - The 1996 Doctor
Eccleston - The 2005A Doctor
Tennant - The 2005B Doctor
Smith - The 2010 Doctor
Hurt - The 2013A Doctor
Capaldi - The 2013B Doctor
 
2013-12-11 03:53:54 PM

NeoCortex42: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

Interesting.  So I guess the Christmas special will be about throwing out the rules on regenerations.


I always thought (even before the series came back) that the 12 regeneration limit was an artificial one
imposed by the Timelord High Council, since they were explicitly stated during the original run as having
the ability to grant a whole new cycle (see their deal with The Master in THE FIVE DOCTORS).

Since there is no more Timelord High Council, that limit is no longer in force, and likely when Capaldi's
Doctor rescues Gallifrey* they will reward him thus.

*Pay no attention to the fact that Tennent's Doctor timelocked Gallifrey at the end of his run.
 
2013-12-11 03:54:13 PM
The Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode?

So if I Silence turns turns around from a Weeping Angel does the Angel forget the Silence was there?
 
2013-12-11 03:59:48 PM

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


No.

1) Moffat lies. A lot. He likes to throw off fans who think they know what's what.

2) Just because Tenant's Doctor used 2 regenerations doesn't change the fact that he was only one incarnation of the Doctor. This is why the US has had only 44 presidents despite having had 50+ presidential elections.

Tenant was 11, Smith 12, Capaldi 13.
 
2013-12-11 04:01:11 PM

Rhypskallion: Troughton never regenerated. He was forced to change by the timelords. IT DOESN'T COUNT!


A forced regeneration is still a regeneration.

Otherwise, McGann's regeneration "wouldn't count" either, since his was forced via the potion.
 
2013-12-11 04:02:34 PM

MindStalker: The Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode?

So if I Silence turns turns around from a Weeping Angel does the Angel forget the Silence was there?


The viewer forgets when they look away from a Silent, not just because they don't see his face.

Also:

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-12-11 04:07:04 PM

Fast Moon: cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14

The main problem with that is that it makes Tennant the twelfth and Smith the thirteenth Doctor, which would necessarily make Tennant's Metacrisis the Valeyard.  Which is... no.  The entire point of that character was to allow some version of the Doctor to experience the fleeting, ordinary life of a human that he'd been wistfully talking about for four freakin' seasons.  And to give Rose a consolation prize to get her out of everyone's hair.  To make him come back and try to steal the regenerations of his Time Lord self does a complete disservice to that resolution and I sincerely hope that's not the route Moffat is taking.

But, since he already turned the tragedy that spanned the first four seasons into irony with the retcon in the 50th, I won't hold my breath.

How to write a Moffat episode:
1. Start with a gimmick
2. Write the characters as tools to drive the gimmick, rather than a story to drive the characters
3. Ignore everything that has already been established
4. If something is too big to ignore, spend no more than 30 seconds handwaving it away.
5. Have someone repeat something incessantly
6. Have a monster that looks scary, but otherwise has no tangible motive other than "look scary".  And repeat stuff incessantly.
7. Kill off a character, but never permanently.  Feel free to kill them multiple times in one episode if you like.
8. Give everyone and everything important-sounding pseudonyms.
9. Have characters treat every minor revelation like the most profound and clever twist ever
10. Have a female character stand in a spotlight and give a monologue about how the Doctor is the bestest man ever
11. Have the Doctor stand in the spotlight and give a monologue about he's the bestest man ever, and have this monologue solve everything without the Doctor actually having to do anything
12. And most importantly: Tell, don't show!


that's good, but you forgot that he has to use the gimmick of using stock footage of all other incarnations of the Doctor as much as humanly possible.
 
2013-12-11 04:08:51 PM

cretinbob: Dimensio: I thought that Eleven was now Twelve, making Mr. Capaldi Thirteen.

Smith is 13, Capaldi is 14


Rule 1 applies to both the Doctor and Moffet.

Not saying he is necessarily lying, but it wouldn't be the first time.
 
2013-12-11 04:09:34 PM
Just a note: The Valeyard is not supposed to be between the 12th and 13th, but between the 12th and final  regenerations. That means he could happen any time from now until eternity.

Also, I still like to consider the first Doctor's appearance to be a regeneration itself, which he become after being a normal Gallifreyan. You look into the Time Vortex, and you get your first regeneration into a Timelord (making you physiologically different from standard Gallifreyans).

What I'm saying is that I don't think he looked like Hartnell before he become a Timelord. That was his first regeneration.
 
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