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(Sporting News)   Yankees will retire Joe Torre's #6 jersey   (sportingnews.com) divider line 45
    More: Spiffy, Joe Torre, Yankees, Casey Stengel, Baseball Hall of Fame, jersey, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter  
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252 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Dec 2013 at 12:38 PM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-11 12:46:12 PM
Well of course.  Has anybody ever played for the Yankees and not had their jersey retired?
 
2013-12-11 12:58:09 PM
They like #8 so much they retired it twice.
 
2013-12-11 01:05:42 PM
As pretty much expected. What's cool is that once they retire Jeter, there won't be any single-digit numbers left to be worn by Yankees.

1- Martin
2- Jeter
3- Ruth
4- Gehrig
5- Joe D
6- Torre
7- Mantle
8- Yogi, Dickey
9- Maris
 
2013-12-11 01:10:30 PM
I don't like it, but whatever. The honor should be reserved for players in my opinion.
 
2013-12-11 01:10:42 PM
Clete Boyer would have love this.
 
2013-12-11 01:15:49 PM
He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs
 
2013-12-11 01:32:26 PM

HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs


HEY! He set batting orders! Do you know how difficult it is to look at a list of players and choose where they bat based on statistics!? You have to:

a) know the rules of baseball
b) know the players statistics
c) slap players on the butt occasionally and sometimes clap
 
2013-12-11 01:37:14 PM

I Said: HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs

HEY! He set batting orders! Do you know how difficult it is to look at a list of players and choose where they bat based on statistics!? You have to:

a) know the rules of baseball
b) know the players statistics
c) slap players on the butt occasionally and sometimes clap


He made the decision to make Mariano Rivera a closer and not a starter or middle-reliever.. And he made the call to make Jeter the starting SS his rookie year. So that's like, two of the greatest players of all time he developed. Plus the four World Series rings and whatever whatever.
 
2013-12-11 01:38:38 PM

JayCab: As pretty much expected. What's cool is that once they retire Jeter, there won't be any single-digit numbers left to be worn by Yankees.

1- Martin
2- Jeter
3- Ruth
4- Gehrig
5- Joe D
6- Torre
7- Mantle
8- Yogi, Dickey
9- Maris


came here to say this.

Let's look at each as a position player, even if they didn't play that position as a Yankee.  That's one hell of a team with each position filled if you have Babe Ruth pitch.

1- Martin - 2B
2- Jeter - SS
3- Ruth - RF (P)
4- Gehrig - 1B
5- Joe D - CF
6- Torre - 3B
7- Mantle - CF
8- Yogi - C (OF), Dickey - C
9- Maris
- RF
 
2013-12-11 01:45:31 PM

HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs


Yeah you're right.  Managers don't make any decisions, and there are surely no factors inside or outside the clubhouse that a manager has to deal with to have a team mentally prepared to play the game.  No egos to manage, no interference from ownership, no media demands, nope just plug in that lineup and let the computer spit out a winner.
 
2013-12-11 01:46:38 PM
He deserves it.
 
2013-12-11 02:00:56 PM

Yanks_RSJ: HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs

Yeah you're right.  Managers don't make any decisions, and there are surely no factors inside or outside the clubhouse that a manager has to deal with to have a team mentally prepared to play the game.  No egos to manage, no interference from ownership, no media demands, nope just plug in that lineup and let the computer spit out a winner.


Sorry Yankee fans, if you get to buy the best available talent and pluck from the have-nots you have to put up with criticisms too.

They should retire the routing numbers from the GM's checkbook.
 
2013-12-11 02:01:16 PM

HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs


You just did a great job biatching about it on the internet.  Maybe one day Fark will retire your handle in your honor.
 
2013-12-11 02:06:37 PM

Wadded Beef: Sorry Yankee fans, if you get to buy the best available talent and pluck from the have-nots you have to put up with criticisms too.

They should retire the routing numbers from the GM's checkbook.


Yankee fans put up with fair criticism. Fallacious and repetitive whining about payroll doesn't qualify.
 
2013-12-11 02:06:42 PM
Yankees will retire Joe Torre's #6 jersey

In return for helping to get ARod off the payroll.
 
2013-12-11 02:11:32 PM

Wadded Beef: Sorry Yankee fans, if you get to buy the best available talent and pluck from the have-nots you have to put up with criticisms too.


The irony of course comes from the fact that of the players listed in the Weeners, 4 were developed within the Yankee system, one (O'Neill) was a trade that had absolutely nothing to do with money, and another (Wetteland) was a player who left the Yankees after winning the World Series to sign a big free agent contract with Texas.
 
2013-12-11 02:17:40 PM

Yanks_RSJ: HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs

Yeah you're right.  Managers don't make any decisions, and there are surely no factors inside or outside the clubhouse that a manager has to deal with to have a team mentally prepared to play the game.  No egos to manage, no interference from ownership, no media demands, nope just plug in that lineup and let the computer spit out a winner.


Which is totally worth retiring a number for. Agreed
 
2013-12-11 02:19:00 PM

idesofmarch: HaywoodJablonski: He did a great job observing Pettite, Clemens, Rivera, Wetteland, O'Neill, Williams, Posada and Martinez do their jobs

You just did a great job biatching about it on the internet.  Maybe one day Fark will retire your handle in your honor.


I think my body of work speaks for itself. I'll let Drew, Mike and Jeff have the final say when the time comes.
 
2013-12-11 02:21:48 PM
To keep up, the Rangers are going to find another jabroni from the 94 team to retire his number
 
2013-12-11 02:25:08 PM
Now if they could just get rid of that giant Steinbrenner plaque.
 
2013-12-11 02:29:09 PM

HaywoodJablonski: Which is totally worth retiring a number for. Agreed


Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't realize this was a decision that required your approval or even had anything at all to do with you.
 
2013-12-11 02:30:17 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Yeah you're right. Managers don't make any decisions, and there are surely no factors inside or outside the clubhouse that a manager has to deal with to have a team mentally prepared to play the game. No egos to manage, no interference from ownership, no media demands, nope just plug in that lineup and let the computer spit out a winner.


Yup.  This is why the Dodgers went after Torre.  No one will confuse Torre's tactical ability with an innovator like Joe Maddon, Tony La Russa, or Earl Weaver.  Torre's bullpen management in particular was extremely questionable, and he made very few decisions (bunts, steals, shifts, substitutions, etc.) during most games.

What he was allegedly good at was keeping the players (and umpires) happy.  When you have the Yankees' payroll (and it's not 2013, when Girardi really had to get creative), this is arguably the most important thing for the manager to do.  For the latter part of his Yankees career, the tactical part of the game was as simple as it could be: You're old, slow, injury-prone, and very skilled, so play station-to-station and let A-Rod, Giambi, Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Young Soriano, Mussina, Bernie, Matsui, Sheffield, etc. win you baseball games.  Keep them out of the gossip pages, don't let any punches get thrown, and get 10-12 star-level players to share the spotlight without a repeat of the Bronx Zoo or Mickey Mantle days.

H31N0US: I don't like it, but whatever. The honor should be reserved for players in my opinion.


Meh.  There are managers in the Hall of Fame (*) for similar reasons.  It's an important role, and if someone really stands out they should be eligible for recognition.  Torre also managed the 6th-most games of anyone in MLB history.  (And he still would have had to manage every game for another 21 seasons and change to catch the all-time leader!)

If you're going to argue against Torre, it should be about how much his personality management actually mattered.  Jeter and Rivera in particular seem like guys you could drop into any clubhouse and they would be happy, as would their teammates.  Of course, you could also argue that Torre's influence was a factor there.

(*) It's worth noting that Torre was almost a HOF candidate for his playing career, so I think his recent induction was an even easier call.
 
2013-12-11 02:32:01 PM
I liked the idea of keeping #6 available...just in case another Mantle or DiMaggio came along. With some historical exceptions, the numbers should be reserved for the players not the management.

Is Torre historically great? The teams he managed before the Yankees would all say "No."
 
2013-12-11 02:42:20 PM
For the record, if you want to make a case that the Yankees have too many retired numbers, I'd agree.  Certainly there was no reason to retire Reggie Jackson's.  Billy Martin's seems almost like an apology for firing him so many times.  You could have very easily not retired Phil Rizzuto or Ron Guidry.  Even Don Mattingly (who I idolized as a child) is somewhat dubious, though it's a nice honor for someone who toiled for the team during an embarrassing era.
 
2013-12-11 02:44:46 PM

Mateorocks: With some historical exceptions, the numbers should be reserved for the players not the management.


Of the top 25 managers in terms of wins: 19 are in the Hall of Fame, 3 are active (Leyland, Baker, Bochy), and the other three might make it into the Hall some day (Pinella, Houk, Mauch).

On that list, Torre is #5.  He's one of 5 guys with 4 or more WS rings, also.  Granted, he had a lot of talent and money to work with, but there are lots of examples of teams that spent a lot of money and never went anywhere.

So if any managers are eligible for the big honors, it's hard to argue that Torre doesn't have the resume.
 
2013-12-11 02:48:41 PM

chimp_ninja: Mateorocks: With some historical exceptions, the numbers should be reserved for the players not the management.

Of the top 25 managers in terms of wins: 19 are in the Hall of Fame, 3 are active (Leyland, Baker, Bochy), and the other three might make it into the Hall some day (Pinella, Houk, Mauch).

On that list, Torre is #5.  He's one of 5 guys with 4 or more WS rings, also.  Granted, he had a lot of talent and money to work with, but there are lots of examples of teams that spent a lot of money and never went anywhere.

So if any managers are eligible for the big honors, it's hard to argue that Torre doesn't have the resume.


Not saying he's not a HOF manager. I'm saying his "number" shouldn't be retired.
 
2013-12-11 02:53:55 PM

Yanks_RSJ: For the record, if you want to make a case that the Yankees have too many retired numbers, I'd agree.  Certainly there was no reason to retire Reggie Jackson's.  Billy Martin's seems almost like an apology for firing him so many times.  You could have very easily not retired Phil Rizzuto or Ron Guidry.  Even Don Mattingly (who I idolized as a child) is somewhat dubious, though it's a nice honor for someone who toiled for the team during an embarrassing era.


Maris is also questionable.  Only 7 seasons with the team, and only 1960-1961 were great.  He wasn't able to play much in 1963 and 1965, either.

Fun fact: Number of times Roger Maris was intentionally walked during his 1961 season: Zero.  Because if you walked him, you'd have to face their best hitter.
 
2013-12-11 02:56:39 PM

Mateorocks: I liked the idea of keeping #6 available...just in case another Mantle or DiMaggio came along. With some historical exceptions, the numbers should be reserved for the players not the management.

Is Torre historically great? The teams he managed before the Yankees would all say "No."


So would the teams who Casey Stengel managed before.  So what?
 
2013-12-11 02:59:14 PM

chimp_ninja: Yanks_RSJ: For the record, if you want to make a case that the Yankees have too many retired numbers, I'd agree.  Certainly there was no reason to retire Reggie Jackson's.  Billy Martin's seems almost like an apology for firing him so many times.  You could have very easily not retired Phil Rizzuto or Ron Guidry.  Even Don Mattingly (who I idolized as a child) is somewhat dubious, though it's a nice honor for someone who toiled for the team during an embarrassing era.

Maris is also questionable.  Only 7 seasons with the team, and only 1960-1961 were great.  He wasn't able to play much in 1963 and 1965, either.

Fun fact: Number of times Roger Maris was intentionally walked during his 1961 season: Zero.  Because if you walked him, you'd have to face their best hitter.


Yeah, I meant to include him as well.  If you look at when the numbers were retired, it's pretty obvious they were trying anything to get people into the ballpark for Old Timers Day.  Maris and Elston Howard were in 1984.  Rizzuto in 1985.  Martin in 1986.  Reggie Jackson in 1993.
 
2013-12-11 03:02:41 PM

Mateorocks: Not saying he's not a HOF manager. I'm saying his "number" shouldn't be retired.


If they gave announcers numbers, and they were going to retire Scully's and you made the same argument, you would draw a wrath never before seen in the Sports tab.
 
2013-12-11 03:16:14 PM
I'm not an NBA fan, so excuse me if the facts aren't 100% on  this.

Mike Dunleavy said he wasn't a genius when he coached the Lakers, and he wasn't an idiot when he coached the Bucks.  The point?  Talent goes a long, long way.  Torre had it in NY and LA.  He was mediocre at best everywhere else.

/Joe sure didn't manage any egos in St.Louis.  Especially not Todd "watch me hit into another double play" Zeile's.
 
2013-12-11 03:43:45 PM
Will they have to start using letters in place of numbers?

/this is why I hate the Yankees
//no excuse needed
 
2013-12-11 03:48:33 PM
The more numbers get retired, the more I think everyone should just do rings of honor like a lot of NFL teams do. When you can only use (x) numbers to define someone as a certain position player, it's hard to retire numbers.

Maybe make it a badge of honor to get a certain number, like it is in a lot of college football teams (i.e., getting #44 at Syracuse, #3 at ND, etc.).
 
2013-12-11 03:51:43 PM

upndn: Will they have to start using letters in place of numbers?

/this is why I hate the Yankees
//no excuse needed


The Tigers retired a name, for a completely different reason of course.
 
2013-12-11 03:52:39 PM

upndn: Will they have to start using letters in place of numbers?

/this is why I hate the Yankees
//no excuse needed


Plenty of numbers left. The only ones left that are still reserved (but not retired) are 20, 21 and 51.
 
2013-12-11 03:53:43 PM

FriarReb98: The more numbers get retired, the more I think everyone should just do rings of honor like a lot of NFL teams do. When you can only use (x) numbers to define someone as a certain position player, it's hard to retire numbers.

Maybe make it a badge of honor to get a certain number, like it is in a lot of college football teams (i.e., getting #44 at Syracuse, #3 at ND, etc.).


The Yankees are the only baseball team that is even coming close to running into this problem. St. Louis is second.
 
2013-12-11 04:18:20 PM

Yanks_RSJ: For the record, if you want to make a case that the Yankees have too many retired numbers, I'd agree.  Certainly there was no reason to retire Reggie Jackson's.  Billy Martin's seems almost like an apology for firing him so many times.  You could have very easily not retired Phil Rizzuto or Ron Guidry.  Even Don Mattingly (who I idolized as a child) is somewhat dubious, though it's a nice honor for someone who toiled for the team during an embarrassing era.


Aside from Jim Gilliam, the Dodgers have had a pretty strict policy of not retiring any numbers unless the player or manager makes it into the HoF. It seems like a pretty good policy to me. Incidentally, 2 of the 10 numbers retired by the Dodgers were managers (Alston and Lasorda).

It will be interesting to see if they retire Mike Piazza's number if he makes it. He played the bulk of his career in NY, but his best seasons were in LA.
 
2013-12-11 05:53:46 PM

Nothing To See Here: Clete Boyer would have love this.


Well, they retired #8 twice... but you're right, Boyer probably deserves it too.  And speaking of great Yankees third basemen, how come Graig Nettles's number isn't retired?


H31N0US: I don't like it, but whatever. The honor should be reserved for players in my opinion.


They've already retired Casey Stengel's 37, and so have the Mets.  The precedent is there.  Plus, the fans love Joe.
 
2013-12-11 08:30:02 PM

jimpoz: They like #8 so much they retired it twice.


I suppose that'll will happen to Rivera's #42
 
2013-12-11 08:31:09 PM

uber humper: jimpoz: They like #8 so much they retired it twice.

I suppose that'll will happen to Rivera's #42


They retired Rivera's 42 a week before the season ended.
 
2013-12-11 09:05:17 PM
The whole retiring numbers thing is way over done these days in my opinion.  Which is why I am surprised a team like the Yankees did this for a manager when they enough numbers retired for legitimate careers in the uniform.  These days in sports you see numbers retired by some organizations to build a heritage they really don't have yet. See it with newer NHL teams quite a bit. I'm a bit old school but I still think a retired number should be held to much more than what it is now.
 
2013-12-11 09:43:41 PM

themunsterfullback: The whole retiring numbers thing is way over done these days in my opinion.  Which is why I am surprised a team like the Yankees did this for a manager when they enough numbers retired for legitimate careers in the uniform.  These days in sports you see numbers retired by some organizations to build a heritage they really don't have yet. See it with newer NHL teams quite a bit. I'm a bit old school but I still think a retired number should be held to much more than what it is now.


Time to go to hexadecimal in a few years?
 
2013-12-11 09:54:30 PM

uber humper: themunsterfullback: The whole retiring numbers thing is way over done these days in my opinion.  Which is why I am surprised a team like the Yankees did this for a manager when they enough numbers retired for legitimate careers in the uniform.  These days in sports you see numbers retired by some organizations to build a heritage they really don't have yet. See it with newer NHL teams quite a bit. I'm a bit old school but I still think a retired number should be held to much more than what it is now.

Time to go to hexadecimal in a few years?


Why are people acting like A) the Yankees are in danger of running out of numbers and B) Torre is undeserving? I am one of the biggest Torre detractors here and I don't have a problem with it. There's precedent for Yankee managers having their numbers retired and he was just inducted into the Hall. End of discussion in my book.
 
2013-12-11 10:35:56 PM

The Bestest: uber humper: themunsterfullback: The whole retiring numbers thing is way over done these days in my opinion.  Which is why I am surprised a team like the Yankees did this for a manager when they enough numbers retired for legitimate careers in the uniform.  These days in sports you see numbers retired by some organizations to build a heritage they really don't have yet. See it with newer NHL teams quite a bit. I'm a bit old school but I still think a retired number should be held to much more than what it is now.

Time to go to hexadecimal in a few years?

Why are people acting like A) the Yankees are in danger of running out of numbers and B) Torre is undeserving? I am one of the biggest Torre detractors here and I don't have a problem with it. There's precedent for Yankee managers having their numbers retired and he was just inducted into the Hall. End of discussion in my book.



It's an exaggeration/joke.  Sure there's some basis to the joke but yea they not going to run out of numbers. Single digit, yes. But there are a bunch left.
 
2013-12-12 01:50:43 AM
Al Oliver would tell you they're not out of single-digit numbers.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
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